Community Forums => I'M BACK => Topic started by: that Baby guy on November 06, 2008, 12:23:13 AM
Title: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: that Baby guy on November 06, 2008, 12:23:13 AM
This post will be used for posting the current rules, as posters agree upon. My opinion, hopefully, will not infiltrate this post.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: that Baby guy on November 06, 2008, 12:47:30 AM
Now, I'll start off by saying that the order of priority of night actions should be established in the rules post. The order shouldn't be impacted by the time of the action submitted, IMO.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Khushrenada on November 06, 2008, 01:01:56 AM
Bah, it's just mafia tradition to gripe after you don't win. I'm not sure we need to got his far. Like I said, it's just a little forum game. It's not like this is some national league or pro sport where we have to define every little thing.
I think everyone knows that I'm a fan of this game. And I know you are too thatguy and just want to see that these little squabbles come to end. I'd like to see that too but it's just the nature of the beast. I'm of the mind to let each host set his own rules and be done with it.
Just because a game has a hiccup or two is no reason to have to put a foot down and say what is and isn't legal or try to set someone straight.
I'll re-iterate again what I said in another thread, this game is a chance for us forum dwellers to get together. It helps build the bond of the forum more and learn abit about other forum members and have a fun time. If it gets authortative and dictative, it will lose that appeal. That doesn't mean we can't be strategic in the game or have to worry about one another's feelings in a move we may make. The two things don't have to be mutually exclusive. But one side can not gain dominence over the other. Balance must be kept.
You just have to take the good with the bad and move on to the next game. Because the next game will be different from the last with its own set of challenge.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: that Baby guy on November 06, 2008, 01:15:10 AM
Oh, that's not the purpose of this at all, Khush. The goal is to let new hosts not have to dig through each and every mafia to find out what is generally assumed. Beyond that, there's been several games where I've assumed the rules functioned one way, and have been incorrect. Often, the host assumes the players know about how night actions take place, for example. I asked about this in one of the last game's threads, and no one seemed to be against it then, so I decided I'd go ahead and make a thread to suggest it.
For instance, Khush, how do you handle the order of night actions turned in? How did Decoyman? Stevey? Spak? Myself? Others I can't remember? They're different, but each host typically assumes players know how the night actions will occur, and often, this is not the case. Wouldn't it be wise to decide on one general way, and ask that each host declare when they plan to deviate from the one?
In fact, in this past game, priority based on time didn't even happen. I found out afterward that it was a possibility. This isn't about the last game, especially since my main point for making this last game never came into play.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Khushrenada on November 06, 2008, 01:27:55 AM
Most games, night actions are pretty simple. Generally, I outline in the roles how they work and how the night actions work. But that's because I will vary from game to game. For instance, some games I will give the detective an investigation Day 1 as soon as he sends an order in. Some games, I wait and give him the investigation after Day 1. After that, the detective just has to survive each day and night for another investigation.
So, let's say it's Day 3 and the detective has his investigation. So, he can pm me any time he wants the name of who he will investigate for Day 4 and he can change that name right up until night actions are due. Then he is stuck with that choice. If he lives through the night, I will send him the result after I have posted the new day thread. If he gets killed at night, he never recieves the result. Must be alive at the start of the next day.
There are other roles like that.
Here's a complicated one:
The Identity Theft -This player can choose to kill one person in the game and gets their role.
So, let's say that is Stevey. Stevey chooses to hit Khushrenada that night. Khushrenada is the killer. However, Khushrenada has also been hit by the mafia godfather. Does Stevey still get to steal Khushrenada's role and become the killer? Or does the mafia hit prevent that and Stevey's hit doesn't go through? What about the killer and his hit? Is it denied because his identity is stolen that night? Or does he get the hit, lose his identity and then get killed by the mafia? What if the killer's hit is against Stevey or the mafia godfather?
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 06, 2008, 01:30:06 AM
No whiny faces allowed when they lose :P
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Gylldas on November 06, 2008, 02:01:55 AM
Adding to GP. After each game everyone all holds hands and sings KUMBAYA!!!
Khush and Stevey have to stand next to each other!!
NO EXCUSES!! NO VENDETTA!!
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 06, 2008, 09:22:51 AM
I like that each host has a different take on the rules...because it means the games have a certain uniqueness to them.
Like for instance...Most hosts take the vote as a day action, and therefore the player voted out does not get their night action, because they were killed. Completely logical and gives power to the townies.
In fact, this rule becomes more important when you add that the mafia can select whom to perform the hit, and if that person is voted out then the hit is not performed.
I personally, always thought the vote was in the day...but the killing of the vote was like a lynching at night. So I allowed all night actions to occur at the same time...including the death from the vote.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- See it is these unique interpretations of the rules that make the game interesting. Just like how many mafia/townies there should be...what about the abilities of the townies and mafia members should have. Each mafia game is handcrafted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Khush on the identity theft, how I would handle a situation like that is...the trump goes to the special ability. If the mafia hit is just killing a player...but the Identity Theft is absorbing the power, I will give it to the Identity Theft, because the mafia still get their end results of having that player dead, and the killer gets the role for choosing that hit as well. It also makes for a more interesting story and game...which is what the host should be crafting with the mafia game whether they decide to write a story or not.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: UncleBob on November 06, 2008, 09:24:53 AM
The only rule I want is that the Host cannot directly effect the outcome of the game (I'm looking at you, Bill. ;))
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Dasmos on November 06, 2008, 09:41:03 AM
I guess this thread is more about stating the standard rules unless stated otherwise in the individual game's rules. I don't think thatguy is trying to have a set of rules that evryone must follow. I guess decoyman's game is a perfect example of this, with the order in which the night actions were sent in was important. I don't think he put it down in the rules, so everyone assumed that it was played as normal. Another big one was the Godfather still getting a hit even if they die, which wasn't outlined in his rules. There was a little bit of confusion over that because it oculd have affected the outcome of the game. Nobody is saying that decoyman can't do that in his game, it's just that he should have made that clear to avoid any confusion down the line.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: decoyman on November 06, 2008, 10:54:21 AM
So, this thread would define the "defaults" in rules? If so, I guess that's cool.
I'd never been in a game (until the last time I was mafia) where the mafia lost its hit when the godfather went out. Or, at least it never affected us. It surprised me when it happened. From a "common sense" perspective, it didn't make sense, but from a "game strategy" perspective, it does.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: nickmitch on November 06, 2008, 11:19:17 AM
I just think that each of the complicated rules: ties , certain night actions, and voting requirements be discussed in the sign-up thread. The host should make most things clear, but also explain results when bizarre outcomes occur.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: that Baby guy on November 06, 2008, 04:15:10 PM
Right, the idea is to establish what the game's players will assume and expect unless stated otherwise on some tricky things.
The first is that night actions have equal priority as each other unless one action is stated to preclude another in the rules. Night actions do not occur in the order they were submitted to the host. Some roles, such as the Doctor, may intrinsically have priority based on the function of their role. -If the Mafia hits the killer and the Killer attacks the Godfather, both the Killer and the Godfather would die under these rules. -If the Mafia hits the Investigator and the Doctor protects the Investigator, the Investigator will not be hit, since protection comes first.
Does anyone disagree with this? Does it seem like a fair and easy-to-understand guideline?
I think the next opinion should be on what happens when the godfather is voted out during the daily thread. Does the hit still occur? Personally, I believe it should not. Spak said above that he sees the lynching as something that occurs at night, allowing the hit to occur. In a game where the henchman are assigned to kill, I feel this is acceptable, but in a game where the godfather just chooses a player to kill, I think this shouldn't be standard, since it isn't standard to allow any other role to use their night action on the same day they are voted out. Additionally, I feel that because the godfather is most often the most difficult mafia member to find, for hitting him, the townies deserve a reward.
What are the others' thoughts?
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Plugabugz on November 06, 2008, 04:46:21 PM
Would it be fair for me and Dasmos to be able to vote by a nominated person?
For instance, i nominate thatguy to take my vote. He's ultimately allowed to make that decision for me. Naturally there's all the risks involved of trusting a mafia to vote for me...
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: that Baby guy on November 06, 2008, 04:58:53 PM
That would definitely be a game-specific rule. You'd have to defer to the host on that one.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: vudu on November 06, 2008, 05:08:25 PM
I have a new rule/role suggestion. I'm not sure how well it would work out, but I'll share it here and maybe we can kick around a few ideas.
I hasn't come up recently, but we used to have the problem where important roles would be assigned to non-participating players. It can really hurt the townies if the investigator doesn't show up for a couple days and it can downright cripple the mafia if the godfather forgets to send in his night action. Last game Oooboy was just a plain townie, but if he had an important role it would have sucked.
I propose a rule that if the godfather (or any other mafia member who has a night action) doesn't send the host his night action any other mafia member can assume his duties for the day. If a no-show is a concern (depending on who is godfather) it might be a good idea that a "second-in-command" sends the host the godfather's night action every day but it will be automatically over-ruled if the actual godfather makes the hit.
I think it would also be interesting if the townies had a player that knew all the roled-townies and would be allowed to perform their night-action if they didn't show up for the day. (Obviously, the role would have special rules that forbid him from informing anyone of his role and possibly even communicating with them via PM unless it was necessary to keep his identity a secret--think the T-Rex in an F14.) This role might be too hard to successfully pull-off and obviously it would only be needed if there were a large number of new players. Alternatively, it might be better to have the host contact this player if his input is needed instead of informing him of all roles at the beginning of the game.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: vudu on November 06, 2008, 05:11:16 PM
Would it be fair for me and Dasmos to be able to vote by a nominated person?
My vote's no on this one. Analyzing voting patterns is a crucial part of determining someone's alliance. If you defer your voting ability to someone else it makes it incredibly difficult to tell what side you're on. Besides, if you're not voting you're not really playing the game.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Plugabugz on November 06, 2008, 05:18:13 PM
True. I wanted to put a suggestion forward in light of the time differences affecting everything.
It's not gonna work ;)
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Dasmos on November 06, 2008, 08:24:16 PM
lol, I guess it just seems all I can ever do is either start a bandwagon or jump on one. But it's okay, I've gotten used to it.
I have a new rule/role suggestion. I'm not sure how well it would work out, but I'll share it here and maybe we can kick around a few ideas.
I hasn't come up recently, but we used to have the problem where important roles would be assigned to non-participating players. It can really hurt the townies if the investigator doesn't show up for a couple days and it can downright cripple the mafia if the godfather forgets to send in his night action. Last game Oooboy was just a plain townie, but if he had an important role it would have sucked.
I propose a rule that if the godfather (or any other mafia member who has a night action) doesn't send the host his night action any other mafia member can assume his duties for the day. If a no-show is a concern (depending on who is godfather) it might be a good idea that a "second-in-command" sends the host the godfather's night action every day but it will be automatically over-ruled if the actual godfather makes the hit.
I think it would also be interesting if the townies had a player that knew all the roled-townies and would be allowed to perform their night-action if they didn't show up for the day. (Obviously, the role would have special rules that forbid him from informing anyone of his role and possibly even communicating with them via PM unless it was necessary to keep his identity a secret--think the T-Rex in an F14.) This role might be too hard to successfully pull-off and obviously it would only be needed if there were a large number of new players. Alternatively, it might be better to have the host contact this player if his input is needed instead of informing him of all roles at the beginning of the game.
I can't see this working, it's basically exactly like Plugabugz's idea for our voting that you poo-pooed, but with powers. Which are much more powerful/influential. No-shows don't often occur to roled-players because they feel they have responsibility to the game and if they do you just have to roll with the punches. I don't think handing the power of the role over to someone else really solves anything, especially in relation to finding said person. If the mafia is still making hits, but the godfather hasn't been online in a week how are you going to find them?
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Khushrenada on November 07, 2008, 12:48:58 AM
I'll tell you the biggest you problem about mafia and I've yet to see a satisfactory answer on it and it's a problem we've had since Mafia 5.
Ties.
Augh! I can't stand it! Whoops. Still channeling Charlie Brown.
Anyways, different hosts have had different ideas and batted around different suggestions and rules but I think this is the biggest area that needs an open discussion. Roles have been made for this thing but they don't always work. I'm thinking the townie whore for instance who might change someone's vote to cause the tie or not even use their power. (I'm looking at you DAaaMan64, the Contessa of Mafia 26 who complains he never gets a role and then doesn't use it when he does get one.)
Some host have gone to the coin toss or another piece of random luck which seems to be the best solution at the moment but I don't like it. This could be a game changing vote and it just happens to end on a coin toss? My only response to the situation has been fear tactics to punish the voters if they can't come to an agreement and end the tie. It's worked a bit but not always. (I'm looking at you Mafia 26).
In the first game it happened, Pyropizm called the day a draw, no one was killed, no night actions took place and a new day started and everybody had at it again. While this isn't a bad scenario either, it has it's faults. You don't want mafia games to drag on and even if no one does get a night action, every extra day hurts the mafia as the townies have more time to work together and stay alive.
I don't neccessarily mind ties. They can sometimes occur because of some good strategic play taking place as people work to save themselves or counter one bandwagon with another.
But that's why I would like to see a tie resolved strategically instead of luck or punishing a non-voter or voter. The people voted for in the tie are the winners of the majority of the vote. They have been chosen by the rest of the players to be eliminated. The problem is, how do you choose which one? You can hope that somebody shows up to vote and resolve the tie or someone changes their vote? But what if no one does and the roles to influence voting have not helped solve the situation?
How can we resolve ties in a satisfying manner?
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: nickmitch on November 07, 2008, 01:01:09 AM
I think the best way is that tied players die, period, end of story. Having them each take one out with them screws over the voters and artificially shortens the games. Then, extending the vote seems to work, but then the times get screwy and the reverse happens.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Khushrenada on November 07, 2008, 01:43:46 AM
Taking out both tied players doesn't work either. We have 4 suspicious people. Let's just tie them all up and then let them all die. I believe it should only be one death per day vote unless a certain rule is in place. (Bomber!) Moreover, this just encourages lazy play. Let's say you've got 4 votes against you. But over the course of the day, you manage to get 3 people to vote with you against someone else. You're cutting deals to save yourself and then voting ends, you're tied, you're dead.
Great, you managed to take someone with you. But you weren't able to convince anyone from the other bandwagon to switch their vote and vote with you. Why? Because they had no incentive to.They weren't in danger. And even if the vote did get tied, you'd still die anyways. Plus, you might be helping them by taking someone valuable with you.
Thinking about the matter and what I would like to purpose is this: If the vote is tied at the end of the day and not resolved, no one is killed but night actions still go one as normal. Now, I realize people might decry this as unfair right away but I think it has merit. We all know the townies weapon is their vote. This was the thing that people declared was unfair about Pale's mafia with RAB always surviving the vote. It took away their power. So, not killing someone in the vote and letting night actions like mafia hits go on, seems to be putting the balance of power to the mafia. But it really isn't. It's just a consequence for not resolving the tie.
As long as the townies work to resolve the tie and get someone voted out, they still keep their power and can use it. Moreover, it keeps them from being lazy and unconcerned about the vote. It also provides advantages to the players in the bandwagons working to fight off elimination. It eliminates the need for luck to determine the final outcome of the vote. I.E. coin toss. Moreover, townies are not punished for voting against someone and being chosen to die with them because the tie wasn't resolved. While the consequence for not resolving a tie isn't as catastrophic as it has been in the past, (the investigator could still make an investigation that night into the tied players), the fact that it slows the townie effort down might be motivation enough to see that a tie gets resolved.
Moreover, strategy is encouraged and rewarded. The mafia could work to make ties to prevent the townies from getting a vote. Townies will have to think about the vote more. Good players could be able to prevent their deaths.
I guess you could say, Mario Kart Mafia is really the prototype of this kind of a tiebreak. That's how the last day was resolved. You may want to consider that game and day to decide whether this is a strategy worth pursuing since that tiebreak pretty much decided the game. But this is the best solution I've been able to come up with after thinking about the matter.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Mario on November 07, 2008, 01:53:04 AM
For a tie, I propose tossing a coin. 50/50 chance one will die. One gets lucky, one dies, but hey, you got lots of votes anyway.
Or, both players duke it out in Mario Kart Wii and the loser dies. Or a Pokemon battle, or Smash Bros. iSketch. Chess. Anything.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 07, 2008, 02:12:57 AM
Nickmitch I don't think that killing the people that are tied are the answer. The Sonic game there was a tie at the end and both were townies.If we kill the people that are tied than it can be advantageous for the mafia to create ties between two townies. Yes it can be a boon for the townies as well but what are the chances that the townies know 2 mafia members early.The mafia holds all of the cards at the beginning.
I think ties should be handled by letting the voters choose anybody left in the game not just those tied.Give the voters 30 min to decide and they can change votes as many times as they want.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Mario on November 07, 2008, 03:49:59 AM
But then if the mafia do that you can guess who they are by seeing who pushed for the tie. I'm not defending the idea because it's still broken. You could kill 16 people on day 1 if 16 people vote for different people.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 07, 2008, 04:43:14 AM
Alright. How do you propose we fix the tie problem?
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Plugabugz on November 07, 2008, 04:57:10 AM
I guess you could say, Mario Kart Mafia is really the prototype of this kind of a tiebreak. That's how the last day was resolved. You may want to consider that game and day to decide whether this is a strategy worth pursuing since that tiebreak pretty much decided the game. But this is the best solution I've been able to come up with after thinking about the matter.
I put quite a lot of thought into the tie-break system before i announced the game coz i knew the tie would have stalled it dead. I based the death of that day on whoever had the least points, but it didn't fix what would happen if both had equal points. But given the way how the game worked out, and the smaller teams, it's unlikely that two people would have equal points and both voted out.
In "normal" games i think night actions should be used to tie it all up.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: nickmitch on November 07, 2008, 12:51:37 PM
Whose night actions?
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: that Baby guy on November 07, 2008, 01:44:36 PM
What you propose, Khush, I think works great. Since the mafia has most to gain from night actions, the townies don't want a tie. While I love the idea of sudden death with a deadline extension, that favors the players on right then. Because of that, it doesn't work best for everyone, at least not as well as your plan. If the townies don't want a tie, they can vote to avoid it.
So in that sense, I definitely agree with Khush on this one.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: vudu on November 07, 2008, 01:59:17 PM
Why not just say that the first (or last) person to achieve the number of votes that caused the tie dies? In order to defeat a bandwagon you can't just meet it--you have to beat it.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: that Baby guy on November 07, 2008, 02:52:21 PM
I don't like that one. I could say the same thing about the bandwagon: In order for a bandwagon to work, you have to beat the other votes, not just meet them. Just because you accumulated your votes second (or first) doesn't mean you should be punished. The way I feel, is that either all tied players die or no tied players die.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: vudu on November 07, 2008, 02:55:11 PM
Both of your options hurt the townies far more than they hurt the mafia.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: nickmitch on November 07, 2008, 05:44:44 PM
But doesn't yours? Bandwagons usually shift towards a player who is found out. So, a random bandwagon that would likely a townie would have to be beaten by the one more likely to be against a mafia member.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: vudu on November 07, 2008, 05:50:30 PM
Your point only stands if we assume people don't change their vote throughout the course of the day. When new information is presented players are going to update their vote accordingly. Ties only occur when there are two factions who believe different things. If anything, the second faction is more likely to consist of mafia members trying to save a teammate who was named in the first bandwagon.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: that Baby guy on November 07, 2008, 06:17:33 PM
Hardly. Ties occur a lot in mafia just because there's two bandwagons. Take a look at the last mafia game, when the mafia believes someone is found, they typically begin to point fingers at the found player, so they look like townies.
The idea is to keep recommendations simple and justifiable. I don't see how your method is either. The problem is to determine what is fair for everyone in the event of a tie. Killing one of the tied players and not the other is not fair, and even less fair when it is not by random chance. The point of the vote is to select who the townies believe is a mafia member. Your scenario nullifies half of the voters, but not the other half. If you're going to nullify votes, either nullify all or none.
The problem with killing extra players with ties is that it benefits the mafia. If a mafia member is voted out as part of the tie, he gets to choose a player and take that player down, just like the townie does. Unless the townies are well informed, the odds are, the townie will also choose a townie. When voting out the mafia and reaching a tie, the townies that are correct are placed in danger, just because they found the right player to vote out.
Not to mention, if we add in a standard way to avoid lynching, there are other benefits, such as situations where voting out a member at all may not be in the best interest of players (a situation with three townies and one mafia member, for example). I am particularly fond of Khush's idea. It's simple, to begin with, it provides incentive for the townies not to allow a tie, while it doesn't punish the tie too much. There's no punishment to the townies that find a mafia member when they play with uncooperative players, and if the tie does occur, the mafia benefits, but only in a marginal way.
I don't understand your logic, Vudu. Yes, I understand we can learn new things, and yes, I understand that the person with new information is going to try to rally people, but most of the time when this occurs, there's not a tie. Most of the time, there's ties when there's two sides with very little information, so the decision on who to vote out isn't unanimous. That doesn't typically make one bandwagon more right than the other.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: vudu on November 07, 2008, 06:51:12 PM
Tie goes to the runner.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 07, 2008, 09:16:50 PM
I like the idea of both players dying with the tie...and then either extended time...or an ability to switch the votes.
I have always felt that added more strategy for both townies and mafia.
The idea that if a tie goes to the mafia or random player killed...or a random player that did not vote doesn't add strategy to the game...just adds a penalty for not voting.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: vudu on November 08, 2008, 09:44:12 AM
But asking players to stick around until 11:00 (or whatever time) is unfair to those either go to bed early or live on the other side of the world. My option isn't entirely time-sensitive and everyone knows exactly who is going to be voted out at any given moment given the current votes.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 08, 2008, 01:35:29 PM
Well, true...but the game is a strategy game, and time is an element of that strategy.
If you aren't going to be on, then you need to do your planning and scheming while you are on.
I don't like deadline extensions...I would rather an ability in the game be present to manipulate the vote...but what happens if that player or players die, then that is also part of the strategy.
But I like the idea that ties kill both players..it gives the townies a means to formulate a plan to kill 2 mafia perhaps...and the mafia that same plan. It adds another element to the game.
I don't like the idea of the mafia being able to pick on a tie, because that benefits the mafia more and they can rig ties to benefit themselves. At the same time, to kill a random person that did not vote doesn't seem fair either, because a NO VOTE is a valid strategic move, that the townies should have at their disposal.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: that Baby guy on November 08, 2008, 02:06:56 PM
Well, what if we make things this way: "We suggest that either all tied players die, or none do. Please consider there are other possibilities, and we encourage you to decide what you believe fits best."
Now, as far as "NO VOTE" goes, I think it's something we should encourage in the game. My reasoning? There's a scenario at the end of the game when there's one mafia member and three townies where the "NO VOTE" works to give the townies better odds at the end of the next day, rather than losing right away if they vote out a townie player on that day. The stipulation is that I believe a bold "No Vote" should be a vote not to lynch, that way, the mafia can't sweep in at the very last minute, make a vote, and win the game.
Or, perhaps we should include this in a "possibilities" list, just to serve as a reminder that a host can allow it?
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 08, 2008, 02:31:05 PM
thatguy: actually, that is the risk of the No Vote. I think for games that if you don't vote you die...the threat of not voting is death...and there is no need to actually write No Vote for your vote.
However, for games without a vote or die clause then I think writing No Vote in bold is a good idea so people know who is playing...and just choosing not to vote.
However, sense a no vote is not actually a vote...if a mafia member decides to sweep in and effect steal the No Vote with a single vote...that should be allowed. In your situation yes that would mean the townies lose because they didn't take a gamble...but it also in the beginning of the games...allows for some strategy plan...for instance, if all the townies voted No Vote and mafia came in and voted someone out...that mafia member could be found out easily.
There has to risk to the No Vote, otherwise, why wouldn't the townies no vote every night...until their detective is dead...or until their detective builds a large enough alliance of confirmed townies?
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Mario on November 10, 2008, 04:14:55 AM
I've got an idea.
All tied players send to the host a list of what roles they think everyone has. Whoever guesses the most roles wins and the rest die. And now the game is turned on its head with the winner having some subtle confirmations of roles and they'll die pretty soon anyway from a mafia hit or something!
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: vudu on November 10, 2008, 01:55:02 PM
All tied players send to the host a list of what roles they think everyone has. Whoever guesses the most roles wins and the rest die.
This rule would tend to favor a mafia player since he would obviously know the identities of his teammates.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 10, 2008, 06:31:39 PM
True, and if you made it you have to know the roles of the opposite team...then the player that survives knows they have a good list of who is who...and can start acting on that list with less doubt.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: that Baby guy on November 10, 2008, 08:23:17 PM
That sounds like something interesting. How does it sound to list several of these as tie-breaker solutions in the thread?
What else? What have we missed? How about a guideline to suggest giving the killer and the suicide bomber a pathway to victory? I don't have much experience with the bomber, so I don't know what to say there. With the Killer, the ability to steal the powers from those he kills, or grant him weapons after a certain number of kills are good methods, but what else?
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Mario on November 11, 2008, 03:16:16 AM
I disagree vudu, the winner of the tie is more likely to die with that rule because they'll be suspicious so it doesn't help them.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: nickmitch on November 11, 2008, 04:26:26 AM
I like the idea of giving the killer just a one time use of every role he takes.
Title: Re: This thread is to determine standard mafia rule suggestions.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 11, 2008, 10:40:37 AM
My idea with the bomber is very different than any other.
Before the end of the first day, the Bomber must choose a side to be win. Like a gamble. Then to win the game, he must EXPLODE. If that means he gets to pick 1 to 2 people to die, then he can do that...if that means people vote for him and 2 or 3 random people die then that is what happens.
I know the flaw in this is that if he chooses the mafia to win his actions will much easier lead to a win because he can find the mafia and play on their terms...BUT, a suicide bomber that does not blow up to me...is not playing the role properly.
Another means for the bomber to win...more like have a special achievement...is that the suicide Bomber can take on an assignment to kill a special role in the game. For instance...the bomber could be assigned to kill the Detective or the Godfather...and if he kills them via blowing up or getting lucky with the voting...then he wins the Bomber achievement...and in that way, he blows up (good for the game) and he is still mostly neutral.
As for the Killer I like the killer having to be the last one standing to win...and if there are two players left Killer and Mafia...tie goes to the Killer.
