Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: AV on July 22, 2008, 08:56:40 PM
Title: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: AV on July 22, 2008, 08:56:40 PM
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Iwata Apologizes for Bad E3
Nintendo's president says good core games take time to prepare. by Matt Casamassina
July 22, 2008 - In an interview with Forbes, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata apologized for the company's lackluster E3 media briefing and said that while it chose not to display more core games, that doesn't mean that the developer isn't working n them.
"If there is any perception that Nintendo is ignoring the core gamers, it's a misunderstanding and we really want to get rid of that misunderstanding by any means," Iwata said. "We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings, specifically for those who were expecting to see Nintendo show something about 'Super Mario' or 'Legend of Zelda.' However, the fact of the matter is the so-called 'big titles' need a long, long development period. ... We really didn't think this year's E3 media briefing was the time to do so."
:o Wow I didn't expect this. As somebody who was really pissed off (you guys seen my posts) this is great that Nintendo recognized our frustration and acted swiftly.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 22, 2008, 09:07:14 PM
1st.
Don't forget you hardcore whined swiftly.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 22, 2008, 09:08:17 PM
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Deguello on July 22, 2008, 09:10:31 PM
It's unfortunate that they feel they have to apologize for something that isn't necessarily their fault, but if it appeases the super hardcore, maybe the internet will become more calm as their mouths shut.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 22, 2008, 09:12:21 PM
I'm fine with E3 going away. Let it be.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: ShyGuy on July 22, 2008, 09:16:15 PM
Yeah, kill it off. Speaking of which, didn't they announce the 2008 E3 shortly after last years show? I haven't heard anything about the 2009 E3.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: redgiemental on July 22, 2008, 09:22:30 PM
So this means they don't have any core games nearing the end of development at all then?
Great
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Crimm on July 22, 2008, 09:33:55 PM
Yeah, kill it off. Speaking of which, didn't they announce the 2008 E3 shortly after last years show? I haven't heard anything about the 2009 E3.
It was a couple days after the event, but that wasn't so much a "see you next year" as it was "okay we get it, the Santa Monica thing was a disaster. Please stop setting flaming bags of poo on our steps!"
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Deguello on July 22, 2008, 09:35:52 PM
I disagree Redgiemental, as I'm sure that Some people don't exactly appreciate that Killzone 2 just made its 4th E3 appearance.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 22, 2008, 09:36:33 PM
holy crap? they're trying to break a record?
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Djunknown on July 22, 2008, 10:40:20 PM
So that's where Chris Morris went. After being so prominent during the Gamecube era, it seemed he just dropped of the face of the internet. More likely, forum goers stopped quoting and linking his articles. Don't like the hair though...
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We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings, specifically for those who were expecting to see Nintendo show something about 'Super Mario' or 'Legend of Zelda
Maybe he needs to put Reggie on a shorter leash, for it was he who made mention to wait for news at e3. Was anyone here really expecting news about a follow up to Galaxy, just after 8 months since its release? I personally wasn't holding my breath for another Zelda...
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The Nintendo faithful have forgiven the company before--and it's likely they'll do so again. But as non-core gamers contribute more and more to the company's bottom line, their voices are likely to grow still louder
Sounds like Sheep vs Wolf. The aren't many wolves, but bark and howl to no end. The sheep just go 'baaa' and chew grass...
But nice to know that they acknowledge the bitching. I guess core gamers in return, not expect epic announcements this time next year.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: shammack on July 22, 2008, 10:42:25 PM
So that's where Chris Morris went. After being so prominent during the Gamecube era, it seemed he just dropped of the face of the internet. More likely, forum goers stopped quoting and linking his articles. Don't like the hair though...
Yeah, but he was hilarious in Brass Eye.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 22, 2008, 10:43:55 PM
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"We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings, specifically for those who were expecting to see Nintendo show something about 'Super Mario' or 'Legend of Zelda.'
I was hoping for something new besides Mario and Zelda, myself...
A new franchise would have made this E3 great. Sequels for Zelda or Mario would also be nice, but let's see something new...
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Stogi on July 22, 2008, 11:18:30 PM
"We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings, specifically for those who were expecting to see Nintendo show something about 'Super Mario' or 'Legend of Zelda.'
I was hoping for something new besides Mario and Zelda, myself...
A new franchise would have made this E3 great. Sequels for Zelda or Mario would also be nice, but let's see something new...
WiiMusic/Resort anyone?
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on July 22, 2008, 11:29:43 PM
Well we are getting a new Mario game soon, Mario Sluggers of course!
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Mashiro on July 22, 2008, 11:34:07 PM
Nintendo needs to pull a Capcom and go back to classic 8/16 bit style games for the VC.
Shorter development times and it would appease the more traditional gamer.
Just a thought.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: bustin98 on July 22, 2008, 11:41:02 PM
You know what kills me about this announcement? I feel that the hardcore weren't waiting for another mascot game, as has been mentioned by Reggie and Iwata. Its a hard drive. Its Kid Icarus. Its Retro's next game. Its publishing the Conduit and allowing it to have hardcore online features. Its freakin telling us that they are cracking down on crap games and instilling a sense of pride in the developers instead of creating a dumping ground.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Kairon on July 23, 2008, 12:04:27 AM
They recognized our frustration and acted quickly acted... by saying they were sorry and reiterating that the Mario and Zelda teams were hard at work.
If you were angry before, I really don't see why you'd be placated now. Of course, I was fine with it before, so Iwata's lip service is of academic interest to me.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on July 23, 2008, 12:18:58 AM
So guys you want to have another twilight princess situation where it was in 2 or 3 different E3s and then bitch that it won't come out for another 2 years? Hell look at Killzone 2 this was like the 4th damn time it's been at E3 and quite frankly I'm sick of seeing it.
There is a reason why companies try to avoid releasing early footage of a game in progress remember how shitty the too human demo was when MS and SK acknowledged that they showed it off too early and this was before or during the time when SK was switching from the Unreal 3 engine fiasco.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Adrock on July 23, 2008, 12:39:46 AM
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"We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings, specifically for those who were expecting to see Nintendo show something about 'Super Mario' or 'Legend of Zelda.' However, the fact of the matter is the so-called 'big titles' need a long, long development period. ... We really didn't think this year's E3 media briefing was the time to do so."
That's great and everything, but unless you plan on showing something, don't say you will. And this little apology is pointless if you're still not going to announce something. I don't care about confirmations of games that I know will be coming out. I know a new Mario and Zelda are in the works because those series are always in the works.
People would have complained about E3 regardless, but I think Nintendo dug themselves into a hole because they just can't seem to keep their damn mouths closed. Do they have a cure for word vomit?
So guys you want to have another twilight princess situation where it was in 2 or 3 different E3s and then bitch that it won't come out for another 2 years?
At the same time, Nintendo did delay the game over a year to not only add motion controls, but fix the controls because the controls weren't up to their standards. Fans need to calm down in general, but you can't blame fans for Nintendo delaying a game. It's not the fans' fault that Nintendo's only "hardcore game" at launch was a game built for Gamecube.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: bustin98 on July 23, 2008, 12:40:36 AM
Actually, I was fine before. I was disappointed that nothing 'cool' was announced, but that's ok. I am looking forward to Wii Resort, mainly because I know my wife will play the game with me.
But then to come out and appologize and say 'we hear you, don't worry, our teams are hard at work on the next mario and zelda', that's not hearing us at all. I think its a given that Nintendo is working on their franchises. I just call BS on this apology because its not addressing the complaints at all.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Dasmos on July 23, 2008, 04:21:11 AM
But then to come out and appologize and say 'we hear you, don't worry, our teams are hard at work on the next mario and zelda', that's not hearing us at all. I think its a given that Nintendo is working on their franchises. I just call BS on this apology because its not addressing the complaints at all.
If it's a given that Nintendo are working on their HARDCORE franchises, why create an uproar about Nintendo abandoning the HARDCORE GAMERS!?
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on July 23, 2008, 04:32:08 AM
If it's a given that Nintendo are working on their HARDCORE franchises, why create an uproar about Nintendo abandoning the HARDCORE GAMERS!?
A. People are narrow minded and stupid B. People are hard headed and gullible when it comes to mass media C. People blindly follow the ideas of the majority D. The internet makes people stupid E. All of the above negative F. People like to whine about everything and turn it into something unintentional or a soap opera and then bask in the glory about having the "right" opinion
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: redgiemental on July 23, 2008, 06:59:34 AM
i don't think people are necessarily saying abandoned but every other year they would have something "for us" this year they don't. There's obviously been some reprioritization gone on there and not in "core gamers" favour. I have to say they had little I actually wanted to play and finding out that they simply don't have anything nearing release to show me isn't great news for me.
Not necessarily looking for MArio or Zelda just something with objectives/missions/levels what I would define as a traditional game.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: bustin98 on July 23, 2008, 09:11:24 AM
If it's a given that Nintendo are working on their HARDCORE franchises, why create an uproar about Nintendo abandoning the HARDCORE GAMERS!?
Hardcore does not live on Mario alone.
By the way, I really hate the term 'hardcore' in reference to gamers.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Dasmos on July 23, 2008, 09:20:58 AM
I have yet to hear a straight answer out of anybody who was upset about the E3 showing about what they would have like to have seen. What would have made this a better showing from a HARDCORE standpoint?
I have the term HARDCORE too, almost as much as I hate the labelling of CASUAL & NON-GAMERS. We're all gamers for fucks sake!
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: NWR_Lindy on July 23, 2008, 09:36:41 AM
What would I like to have seen?
- A new FPS from Retro - Profile of MadWorld - Profile of Disaster: Day of Crisis - Profile of Fatal Frame - Teaser trailer for new Mario and Zelda (not that this would have really impressed me) - Something mentioned about how the DS is the home of RPGs
Need I go on? Nintendo pretty much acted like all they make are these mass market games. This lip service from Iwata just makes me roll my eyes. Sure Nintendo, you didn't think that E3, the one games show that all GAMERS - not soccer moms and grandmas - watch wasn't the place to announce non-mass-market games. Whatever.
I can assure you that the people that are going to buy Wii Sports Resort and Wii Music aren't coming home from work to catch the E3 Press Conference feed on IGN Livewire like I did. Why not show those games off on the Today Show or something? Seriously, E3 isn't the forum to show those types of games exclusively. The audience is way too game-nerd for that.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: bustin98 on July 23, 2008, 10:35:11 AM
I have yet to hear a straight answer out of anybody who was upset about the E3 showing about what they would have like to have seen. What would have made this a better showing from a HARDCORE standpoint?
I have the term HARDCORE too, almost as much as I hate the labelling of CASUAL & NON-GAMERS. We're all gamers for fucks sake!
Read my first post in this thread.
Harddrive/storage solution Kid Icarus/Factor 5 Retro Studios next project
Wii speak was a surprise and nice, but I fall into the 'nice, but it could have been better' category. I'm sure (hopefully) some 3rd party will release a headset.
I read an article refering to some gamers as 'veteran' gamers. That kinda fits better than hardcore. I've been playing for a long time and I've got the whole hand-eye thing down. I want games that challenge and offer some meat. While some so called casual games offer challenge, they don't have the meat. And there are so many casual games that I'm pooping casual games (sucks when Tetris is coming down the shoot!). Time to fill out the other genres.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: redgiemental on July 23, 2008, 10:57:35 AM
A new gamer's game being shown would be all I wanted Dasmos.
edit:I think Bustin I share a similar meat lust.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Dasmos on July 23, 2008, 11:08:56 AM
Okay, I missed the mark with my question. I should have said: What were you (honestly) expecting from Nintendo at E3?
It's nice to dream about non-existant games (Kid Icarus, Retro FPS lol), games no-one cares (Disaster, Fatal Frame) about and incomplete projects (Harddrive) being shown at Nintendo's Press conference, but you have to be realistic. If you were expecting these things at E3, you were always going to be disappointed.
It's nice to dream about non-existant games (Kid Icarus, Retro FPS lol), games no-one cares (Disaster, Fatal Frame) about and incomplete projects (Harddrive) being shown at Nintendo's Press conference, but you have to be realistic. If you were expecting these things at E3, you were always going to be disappointed.
A hard drive should not have been an incomplete project though. People have been calling for that since before launch, and more vocally ever since VC and especially WiiWare came out. Many people were expecting it, at a bare minimum, last E3.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Dasmos on July 23, 2008, 11:41:18 AM
So expecting Nintendo to maybe have one traditional game was silly? They've been making them for over 20 years.
Animal Crossing.
BANG! A TRADITIONAL GAME!
Is this all you ever wanted? No.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: BigJim on July 23, 2008, 11:43:58 AM
Wow, Nintendo going through the trouble of publicly apologizing in Forbes to only a few internet trolling dissatisfied gamers? Methinks dissatisfaction with the platform is slightly more real than some fans thought. Hi Deg. :)
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So this means they don't have any core games nearing the end of development at all then?
Shouldn't the "idea" of Animal Crossing keep you satisfied for the next 6 months until you play it for 10 minutes and get bored? There's no lineup gap. The mere idea of future games should quench your thirst plenty.
Silly gamers.
But seriously, it would be nice if Nintendo listened instead of telling us we should be "tremendously excited" about AC.
If Iwata is really honest about "get[ting] rid of that misunderstanding by any means", then he should be prepared to basically double the in-house development staff because seasonal/quarterly releases are not going to be enough to satisfy a hungry audience. The other option is to get the 3rd parties' A-teams moving on their platform for the first time in a decade.
But he's not, so he won't.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Deguello on July 23, 2008, 12:22:34 PM
I think Nintendo was the only one who actually treated the new E3 like it is. They showed up to a barbecue wearing a t-shirt and jeans, while most others followed suit (Capcom showed up naked). Only a few companies showed up in tuxedos and wondered why everybody was staring at them.
I know it's hard to believe but E3 just isn't that important anymore. I know it has a long history as a business meeting and then a gamer's mecca and then back to a business meeting, but the times, they are a-changin'.
Its a strange sort of cognitive dissonance where you hold two ideas in your head:
1. E3 is the big gamer's meeting where all the guns will go off and companies should structure their developments and announcements around it. 2. Companies are starting to downplay E3's importance and don't feel compelled to bust out all their stops for it, treating it like it's "just another show"
When these ideas clash you will have a reaction, such as anger or sadness. Blame will be ascribed, and many felt Nintendo was to blame for E3's "lower-key" atmosphere, despite the obvious realities on the ground. And so, like good social businessmen, they apologized for not meeting expectations, even though they were expectations that they didn't engender. It happens all the time like when Japanese baseball players get injured and apologized for the fans for getting injured.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: redgiemental on July 23, 2008, 12:25:44 PM
Someone did promise that they would be something for core gamers to look out for at E3 though remember? ;)
What did we get?
And no Dasmos AC is not a traditional game in my opinion.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Deguello on July 23, 2008, 12:27:19 PM
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Methinks dissatisfaction with the platform is slightly more real than some fans thought. Hi Deg.
Oh hey BigJim. Yeah. Hey. (what?)
The dissatisfaction is not with the platform but with the E3 show. If you'll mosey over to Amazon you'll see the 360 rated with 3 and 1/2 stars and the Wii rated 4 and 1/2 stars. (IMO This is the best way to measure the mass appeal and thoughts of the console). Yes, the E3 show didn't have much red meat for the base, but that's not an indicator that the red meat does not exist.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: EasyCure on July 23, 2008, 12:28:14 PM
So expecting Nintendo to maybe have one traditional game was silly? They've been making them for over 20 years.
Animal Crossing.
BANG! A TRADITIONAL GAME!
Is this all you ever wanted? No.
so much WIN in this post... so much. I completely agree with you, i think all the people complaining about e3 are just silly and will never be pleased.
Just because you hear rumors of a Kid Icarus revival doesnt mean nintendo's working on it.
Why would you just assume Retro was doing another FPS title? That statement alone shows the "i want more of the same" attitude with some of the internets hardcore/traditional/veteran gamers. They've been with nintendo for yoears and scrapped other projects just to make the Prime series for you, and instead of letting them try something new and flourish into a a 2nd party that can be put in charge of any type of game should nintendo ask of them, you want them to keep putting out FPS/FPA's...wow, thats stupid.
And no Dasmos AC is not a traditional game in [bmy[/b]opinion.
Thats exactly why you shouldn't of got your hopes up. Its really your own fault because you knew what you wanted nintendo to show YOU but nintendo had plans to show stuff for everyone (like they always do). Just because you think Animal Crossing isn't a traditional game, some people do. Just like some people think that games like Halo are casual games because they're mainstream games for the "traditional" audience.
Someone did promise that they would be something for core gamers to look out for at E3 though remember? ;)
What did we get?
And no Dasmos AC is not a traditional game in my opinion.
I certainly remember Animal Crossing being treated as a "traditional game" in 2002. In fact it was a pretty big hit on the hardcore internet and it sold a million copies just in the US. Oh but that's right, that was before the Great Definition War that started in 2004 and still hasn't ended.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: BigJim on July 23, 2008, 12:49:56 PM
Methinks dissatisfaction with the platform is slightly more real than some fans thought. Hi Deg.
Oh hey BigJim. Yeah. Hey. (what?)
The dissatisfaction is not with the platform but with the E3 show. If you'll mosey over to Amazon you'll see the 360 rated with 3 and 1/2 stars and the Wii rated 4 and 1/2 stars. (IMO This is the best way to measure the mass appeal and thoughts of the console). Yes, the E3 show didn't have much red meat for the base, but that's not an indicator that the red meat does not exist.
Yep, the headline and primary apology referred to E3, but the apology also refers to the misunderstanding that Nintendo ignores core gamers. And we/they know that existed before E3. E3 was just the latest anecdote. So yes, there is dissatisfaction with the platform, or else there's no reason to believe this would have gotten blown up quite so much.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Deguello on July 23, 2008, 12:58:47 PM
It got blown up because things GET blown up on the internet.
Thing is I heard the exact same "dissatisfaction" and "worry" that the DS would become the "Nintendogs" machine. It is not merely working on core games that hardcore demand and stamp their feet over. They want it to the exclusion of anything else, and they want to be "listened to." The problem, as with the Diablo III announcement and sequential petition (nearly up to 7000! What in the world will Blizzard ever do?!), that the hardcore never agree with each other over what they want and sometimes request very odd and complex things, like, say... 2D Castlevania on consoles.
I'll be writing my first Staff Blog post about identifying one of these creatures so you can be prepared if you ever see one in the wild.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: redgiemental on July 23, 2008, 12:59:40 PM
Thats why I said in my opinion. I know some people think of it as such but I've never felt it did. If you're excited about Animal Crossing good for you.
I'll also drop in that in 2002 not only was Animal Crossing released, but Nintendo also published Metroid Prime, Super Mario Sunshine and Eternal Darkness during the second half of 2002 contrasting to this year of just Animal Crossing as the big title.
I'm actually looking forward to Warioland SHAKE but I still feel the line up for this year is a little poor.
The meat joke was somewhat intended it's ok Easycure.
EDIT: I'm fine with releasing games for other audiences Deguello but they've done it to the detriment of what a large proportion of their older audience wants
I know I'm probably whining in all reality but its my opinion on the matter. :P
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: BigJim on July 23, 2008, 01:26:16 PM
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It is not merely working on core games that hardcore demand and stamp their feet over. They want it to the exclusion of anything else
For those few that do blame the "softcore games" (if you will) for the problem, I agree that is misdirected, and it is not them who I refer to as I don't think those few people, in actuality, amount to great numbers either. But I don't think it is they alone who Nintendo's apologizing to or else, as I said, it wouldn't have gotten this blown up. The number of dissatisfied people are greater than just those few.
So long as the hardcore is amply supplied, I'd wager the vast majority of dissatisfied people don't care what other projects Nintendo does, including many of those that currently blame the "softcore games" for lack of a better understanding of the issue.
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the hardcore never agree with each other over what they want
Quite true, the hardcore audience wants a lot of different things. Hence doubling the development teams or getting 3rd parties' A-teams on board for real, as I suggested. ;)
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Morari on July 23, 2008, 01:29:48 PM
I'll also drop in that in 2002 not only was Animal Crossing released, but Nintendo also published Metroid Prime, Super Mario Sunshine and Eternal Darkness during the second half of 2002 contrasting to this year of just Animal Crossing as the big title.
Eternal Darkness II would have been the best announcement conceivable! I'm the only veteran gamer happy with Animal Crossing though, I suppose. Really though, if Nintendo wants to continue to reuse their IPs, then they should start bringing some of those handheld games over onto the Wii. I wouldn't mind Nintendogs: Wii or Pokemon: True Console RPG at all.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: EasyCure on July 23, 2008, 01:35:07 PM
that post feels less internet fanboyish, so there's no need to pick it apart.
Oh and for the record i'm not excited about AC. i got burned out on it with both the GC and DS versions, real-time gaming is tough when you have a busy life.
I wasn't dissapointed at e3 however, because i wasn't expecting anything. Between just not wanting to get my hopes up and feel crushed/abandoned and knowing nintendos new record of not announcing anything until its close to release i just knew better to not hype up this new, lower key e3.
If AC turns out to really be the only thing nintendo has for the holiday, then yeah that kinda sucks cuz i know i won't get it but i'm sure there'll be some 3rd party game that will get my attention and money. If not there's still a ton of good stuff out there i don't own yet or havent finished to completion
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Kairon on July 23, 2008, 01:44:45 PM
Not necessarily looking for MArio or Zelda just something with objectives/missions/levels what I would define as a traditional game.
There are lots of traditional games for the Wii coming out this fall.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Ian Sane on July 23, 2008, 01:57:40 PM
What did I honestly expect from E3? Well I expected Nintendo to really focus on some really lame non-games I wouldn't be interested in. But I expected some balance. Last year it was disappointing that Wii Fit was pretty much the only new thing announced but there were big core games there too. We just knew about them already so it wasn't that exciting. But they were there and we knew that there were some games coming out later in the year for the core gamer. I expected more balance than what I saw from Nintendo. I expected a casual focus but not THIS much of one. I expected to find out about more core games due later this year than one. Right now I'm totally in the dark about what the hell Nintendo has planned for Christmas. Right now it sounds like just Animal Crossing. Am I actually in the dark or am I just assuming there's more because what I know about is so disappointing? Also Reggie said we've have something to get excited about. Do I have to assume he's always lying? It wasn't some website creating a rumour it was a Nintendo exec misleading us.
I like how Iwata is apologizing. I don't think Nintendo expected this backlash. You don't go out there and bomb with a big grin on your face unless you're completely oblivious about it. The problem is again he's just mentioning the franchises. There's that assumption that the old group just wants sequels. No we don't. That's not a real effort. That's scraps. We want sequels but we also want new stuff. We want to see that Nintendo actually still wants to make core gamer games. When all the creative energy is dedicated to non-games it suggests that that's all Nintendo really wants to do and everything else is a token effort to keep the old market from leaving. Iwata is apologizing but doesn't realize exactly what he's apologizing for. It is more than just an E3 snub.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: NWR_Lindy on July 23, 2008, 02:00:34 PM
I'll be writing my first Staff Blog post about identifying one of these creatures so you can be prepared if you ever see one in the wild.
While you're at it, write that Drawn to Life review too. ;-)
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: redgiemental on July 23, 2008, 02:12:19 PM
I think Ian summed up how I feel better than I could myself actually. It's not just about E3.
I know I posted this in another thread but I think it's very relevant here. "You have seen the extent of Nintendo's 2008 holiday line-up," http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=200316
I know public statement haven't always been reliable from Nintendo Executives but I don't see any reason to lie to make things look worse.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Kairon on July 23, 2008, 02:13:24 PM
Last year it was disappointing that Wii Fit was pretty much the only new thing announced but there were big core games there too. We just knew about them already so it wasn't that exciting. But they were there and we knew that there were some games coming out later in the year for the core gamer. I expected more balance than what I saw from Nintendo.
If you expected Balance then you weren't paying attention this past year. Between E3 07 and E3 08 Nintendo released Mario Strikers Charged, Battallion Wars Wii, Metroid Prime, Mario Galaxy, Phantom Hourglass, Mario Kart, Smash, and so much more. Last year, Nintendo threw "balance" to the wind and shot all their traditional teams into cooldown. Nintendo's 2008 line-up reflects just how much Nintendo's 2007 threw their development timelines totally off-balance.
Right now I'm totally in the dark about what the hell Nintendo has planned for Christmas. Right now it sounds like just Animal Crossing. Am I actually in the dark or am I just assuming there's more because what I know about is so disappointing?
EVERYONE is in the dark. EVERYONE is assuming that Nintendo's "Mario & Zelda" teams are actually working and not just sitting there twiddling their thumbs.
Also Reggie said we've have something to get excited about. Do I have to assume he's always lying?
Yes. He started as PR for chrissake. Don't put him, or Iwata, or Miyamoto, on a pedestal. Never forget that Iwata promised us Smash Brothers at launch. *shakes fist*
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 23, 2008, 02:20:22 PM
My biggest complaint about Nintendo's E3 this year was that it felt awkward and scripted. In fact, I think this video sums it up nicely:
Also, who the hell thought it was a good idea to have THIS on stage?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgRriCJARvU
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Ian Sane on July 23, 2008, 02:37:55 PM
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Never forget that Iwata promised us Smash Brothers at launch.
Yeah but who the hell believes release dates? Those slide all the time. I never thought Iwata lied about that, Nintendo just couldn't keep their optimistic estimated time frame. I assume Reggie is full a sh!t when asked tough questions that he can't answer in a positive way or when praising specific products. I didn't really expect him to draw our attention to E3 only to "trick" us. When has Nintendo ever done that before? I didn't trust Reggie to REALLY deliver something great. I distrust his PR position enough to not fall for that. But it was like we got nothing. Who expected THAT?
Though I won't expect anything next year at all. Or pretty much anything any Nintendo exec says about anything. Until an independent source confirms it (ie: the media tries a demo and confirms some promised feature is really there) it's bullsh!t.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: King of Twitch on July 23, 2008, 02:41:21 PM
Smash_Brother: Awkward yes, but of course it's scripted? You want them to ad-lib all those pie charts? ;D
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Ceric on July 23, 2008, 03:58:22 PM
What gets me most was the lack of anything truly new. The big announcements were WiiSports2, WiiMusic, and Animal Crossing. Nintendo has been pretty clear that all of those were coming.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Kairon on July 23, 2008, 04:12:03 PM
Well, I think E3 08 DID feel more scripted than previous scripted E3's. I chalk this up to the combination of Reggie and Cammie. Reggie was always very scripted before (whereas for some reason I rarely feel that Miyamoto and Iwata seem scripted even though they obviously are), but Reggie combined with Cammie... hmm... I hope next year's E3 presentation has smoother exchanges between the two of them.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: ShyGuy on July 23, 2008, 04:54:51 PM
Well, apparently we've been complaining loudly enough that the casuals are shaking their heads at our behavior.
Augie DeBleck has an entry about it at VariousandSundry http://www.variousandsundry.com/2008/07/23/nintendo-watchers-are-an-odd-lot/
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: blackfootsteps on July 23, 2008, 08:13:00 PM
I know it's hard to believe but E3 just isn't that important anymore. I know it has a long history as a business meeting and then a gamer's mecca and then back to a business meeting, but the times, they are a-changin'.
Good point, evidenced by the seeming displeasure in Sony and MS camps as well. Oh well at least I wont have to stay up til 4am next year to watch it live.
I think that if the Motion Plus information hadn't come out the day before the show I personally would have been more blown away. As it was I was pre-blown away the day before when I read it on here, definitely not as cool as finding out live.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Adrock on July 23, 2008, 09:02:23 PM
the hardcore never agree with each other over what they want and sometimes request very odd and complex things, like, say... 2D Castlevania on consoles.
Just out of curiosity, why is that odd and/or complex? It wouldn't sell as much as say, Zelda, but it sure as hell will sell more than IGA's "3D action versus game that's not a fighting game, but sounds awfully like a fighting game."
When all the creative energy is dedicated to non-games it suggests that that's all Nintendo really wants to do and everything else is a token effort to keep the old market from leaving. Iwata is apologizing but doesn't realize exactly what he's apologizing for. It is more than just an E3 snub.
I agree, but not so much with your other points. Sequels are scraps now? Wow, that's harsh. I want sequels AND new IPs too, but I wouldn't call a new Zelda or Mario scraps...
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Ceric on July 23, 2008, 09:25:39 PM
Well, I think E3 08 DID feel more scripted than previous scripted E3's. I chalk this up to the combination of Reggie and Cammie. Reggie was always very scripted before (whereas for some reason I rarely feel that Miyamoto and Iwata seem scripted even though they obviously are), but Reggie combined with Cammie... hmm... I hope next year's E3 presentation has smoother exchanges between the two of them.
It really did feel awkward and scripted.
Cammie kept mentioning what she was playing as if she was trying to gain acceptance with the audience. Mistake number one. You have to make them come to you, not the other way around.
Mistake number two was the awful tension between the people on stage. It just made me feel bad for them.
Mistake three was that crazy idiot on drums. You couldn't tell if he was supposed to be drumming or having a seizure.
Mistake number four was, and I hate to say it, Wii Music. It looked really unnatural while people were playing it, not to mention that I think they've managed to reach a level that even the causals will say "this is really too simple..."
And mistake number 5 was not showing so much as a screenshot for any upcoming "hardcore" game. I can't imagine that there wasn't at least SOME piece of media they could've shown of an upcoming gamer game to make fans say "Hey cool, look at that!", especially something to show off why the Wii motion plus is such a big deal.
If Red Steel 2 will use it, a demo of swordfighting with it would've been excellent.
But yeah, the other shows weren't much better.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Stogi on July 24, 2008, 03:40:26 AM
Jesus christ!
I haven't heard so much blatant bitching since the wiimote was released. My god, can you all just shut the **** up for a moment?
Or how about this........FUCKING DEAL WITH IT.
Whenever Nintendo takes a "mis-step" you guys pounce on it like ravenous dogs, even more so now than usual. It's like them being market leader isn't enough for you; you want them to lick every millimeter of your balls. What's sad is you guys will never change either (case in point, IANSANE). You still buy Nintendo products willfully. You still support the company you "hate", but love to bitch about. How about this....How about you guys grow some balls and sell your Wii?
Better yet.....stop playing games all together.
How about that?
Jeezzzzzzzz, you're like that guy with the shitty girlfriend who doesn't do **** about it except bitch to his friends.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 24, 2008, 03:56:56 AM
Can someone tell me when Nintendo was huge on creating new IPs? What did we get on GC? Um, Pikmin? Battalion Wars? Seriously quit yapping about new IPs, it is something Nintendo hasn't really done much of since the NES days where everything was new! Wii is no different from GC when it comes to new IPs. Heck Wii has potential to have MORE new IPs than GC even though it is those horrible casual games (I know terrifying). N64 was even worse than GC when it came to new IPs and many NIntendo fans consider the N64 generation great so obviously it isn't that important.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 24, 2008, 04:14:12 AM
Can someone tell me when Nintendo was huge on creating new IPs? What did we get on GC? Um, Pikmin? Battalion Wars? Seriously quit yapping about new IPs, it is something Nintendo hasn't really done much of since the NES days where everything was new! Wii is no different from GC when it comes to new IPs. Heck Wii has potential to have MORE new IPs than GC even though it is those horrible casual games (I know terrifying). N64 was even worse than GC when it came to new IPs and many NIntendo fans consider the N64 generation great so obviously it isn't that important.
This is a very good point. I can't think of a single new IP on the N64 that came out in the west (Animal Crossing and Custom Robo, and maybe one other came out in Japan). The Cube got Pikmin, Battalion Wars, and Geist, and the SNES, way back in the good old days when Nintendo was number one without having to cater to those filthy, filthy casuals, had F-Zero, Pilotwings and Star Fox. The Wii is already getting one new IP, Disaster, which is a new IP even if it's not any good, and while not technically a new IP the rumored Kid Icarus would have the same basic effect as one. The Wii's not even halfway through it's life, there's plenty of time for new stuff.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 24, 2008, 04:45:29 AM
I forgot about Geist, I really hope they do a sequel for it, the game had tons of promise. Look at the DS Nintendo has a few new IPs like that Captain Rainbow, Professor Layton, and well about any of their point n click puzzle games.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Stogi on July 24, 2008, 04:48:38 AM
Captain Rainbow is a Wii game!
Uh oh......don't let johnny boy read your post! It's more fuel to the flame!
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 24, 2008, 05:07:42 AM
Uh oh......don't let johnny boy read your post! It's more fuel to the flame!
Dangit, ok that is even better it is a new IP for Wii (I really don't know much about it besides it being, um, different)
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 24, 2008, 07:15:30 AM
Geez, you guys are still going on about E3?? Umm, I hate to break it to you, but that conference ended like a week ago. Get over it and move on. Yeah, it sucked compared to the E3s of the past, but Nintendo has alot more going on than they announced. Trust me on that one. we should all know by now how secretive Nintendo is and how they don't usually announce things until the last minute.
There WILL be more hardcore games for the Wii. Just hang on and enjoy the games that do exist in the meantime.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: BigJim on July 24, 2008, 08:10:43 AM
Ah, yes. They're coming, no really. Just keep waiting.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Ceric on July 24, 2008, 08:52:25 AM
*shrug* Personally I like the over analyzing. It makes the boards lively and allows us to be creative. If we get it right that's great if we get it wrong its embarrassing.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 24, 2008, 08:55:22 AM
Not really, because I don't think anyone remembers or will call you on your wrong predictions. For instance, I had predicted that a Zelda FPS would be unveiled at E3, but that didn't happen and now I can just quietly pretend I never said that it would be. :P
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: EasyCure on July 24, 2008, 11:18:20 AM
Ah, yes. They're coming, no really. Just keep waiting.
Yeah like Wario Land and Fatal Frame IV.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Ian Sane on July 24, 2008, 12:40:22 PM
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I can't think of a single new IP on the N64 that came out in the west
How about?
Banjo-Kazooie Conker's Bad Fur Day Goldeneye/Perfect Dark Blast Corps Jet Force Gemini
Oh right. Because Rare left we forget they never existed. Silly me. Aside from Donkey Kong and Killer Instinct Rare was busting out new IPs with every game. They were a second party and exclusive Nintendo developer so it counts. Of course Nintendo themselves had the advantage that they just went 3D so even if most of their games were sequels they were so innovative and different that they might as well be something completely new. On the Gamecube I would count Metroid Prime in the "new" category because it was such a big difference from Super Metroid that there was no "been there done that" feeling.
Maybe Nintendo just lucked out there with the 3D thing allowing them to continue with the same IPs but do so in a fresh new way. If Nintendo could actually find a way to use the remote in a sequel that would change things in as huge of a way as 3D did then that too would be about the same as a new IP. If those Kid Icarus rumours are true then odds are that would substancially different enough to be the same as a new IP. And sequels aren't scraps but rather getting JUST sequels is.
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It's like them being market leader isn't enough for you
Back in the Cube days when we would discuss what Nintendo could or should do to get back on top I got a lot of flack because my ideas were often accused of Nintendo selling out by being too much like Sony. My attitude was that I didn't want Nintendo to compromise what was good about them but to change the bad things. No one for example is a fan of Nintendo because they treat third parties like crap so fixing something like that was perfectly acceptable but compromising the quality of their games was not because that was a valid reason to be a Nintendo fan. And the whole purpose was not bragging rights or anything like that. It was for Nintendo to attract better third party support so that its fans could buy just a Nintendo console and be almost completely satisfied. It was also to allow Nintendo to have more influence on the industry which seemed like a good thing.
Well Nintendo did the one thing I didn't want them to do: compromise the quality of their games. The third party support still sucks. The only advantage we get from the Wii being on top is bragging rights, which is useless. Nintendo has more influence but because they've changed it's a bad influence. So them being market leader isn't enough for me because they've rejected what I liked about them in the first place to get there. Would you be happy if your political party won the election by compromising all the principles that attracted you to the party in the first place?
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 24, 2008, 03:51:11 PM
Well Nintendo did the one thing I didn't want them to do: compromise the quality of their games. The third party support still sucks. The only advantage we get from the Wii being on top is bragging rights, which is useless. Nintendo has more influence but because they've changed it's a bad influence. So them being market leader isn't enough for me because they've rejected what I liked about them in the first place to get there. Would you be happy if your political party won the election by compromising all the principles that attracted you to the party in the first place?
Oh come on now. In the last year alone Nintendo's released some of their best games ever. Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Smash Bros Brawl, Fire Emblem and Mario Kart Wii are all considered some of the better games in each of their respectable series. Not to mention you've had other great games like Mario Strikers Charged as well as Battalion Wars.
Hell Nintendo hasn't had a year where they released this many quality titles on one system within such a short period since the SNES era. So how exactly are they compromising the quality of their games on the Wii, when they've done nothing but release some of their best games on the Wii?
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 24, 2008, 03:54:02 PM
Ian doesn't play Nintendo games so he doesn't necessarily know about those.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 24, 2008, 04:16:49 PM
Haha
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Banjo-Kazooie Conker's Bad Fur Day Goldeneye/Perfect Dark Blast Corps Jet Force Gemini
You do realize those were made Rare right? Not Nintendo?
How about Elebits, Dewey Adventure, MySims, Deadly Creatures, Red Steel and ON AND ON if we are talking about non-Nintendo new IPs.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 24, 2008, 04:26:48 PM
mmmm mention of jfg. YUM yUM
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: Ian Sane on July 24, 2008, 06:59:56 PM
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You do realize those were made Rare right? Not Nintendo?
Yeah I said that. Rare was a second party at the time. Their games were published and distributed by Nintendo. Nintendo was paying for the development of these games. How is that any different than Intelligent Systems or Retro releasing a game other than maybe some legal technicalities? Nintendo had to green light the creation of those original IPs. On the Gamecube things started to switch and suddenly Rare's original IP, Dinosaur Planet, was turned into a Star Fox game. Silicon Knights started work on Eternal Darkness, a new IP, on the N64 but after releasing it on the Cube were next assigned to do a remake of someone else's game instead of, you know, something that would actually make use of their talents. That's an interesting change in attitude as we switch to the Cube. Both companies have since moved to Microsoft where they haven't been assigned someone else's IP like they're Tose or something.
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So how exactly are they compromising the quality of their games on the Wii, when they've done nothing but release some of their best games on the Wii?
Because they're all f*cking sequels, that's why. Good games, yes, but a compromise to the creativity that made Nintendo great. Plus now they pass off junk like Wii Play and expect it to sell, which it does. Nintendo never used to make lazy crap games. That's part of their business model now and thus is a compromise to their previous standards. Sequels for core gamers; con artist junk for non-gamers that don't know better. That sounds like a compromise to Nintendo's game quality to me, even if those sequels still turn out decent.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: redgiemental on July 24, 2008, 07:17:33 PM
I agree with Ian at the minute it doesn't seem like Nintendo want to make anything new that isn't dumbed down.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 24, 2008, 07:28:16 PM
Let's cancel Pikmin 3 and work on something new.
Title: Re: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings
Post by: redgiemental on July 25, 2008, 08:28:08 AM
Why don't hire some more goddamn staff and increase their output. If they are gonna have different audiences to cater to. I think they can afford it!!
