Post by: bladez0r on April 04, 2003, 02:38:36 PM
Post by: joshnickerson on April 04, 2003, 02:44:26 PM
And you're right, it IS the best game ever
Post by: GoHuskers on April 04, 2003, 03:15:03 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 04, 2003, 03:19:20 PM
In my opinion, it's at least as good as OoT is. I do think time for feelings to set in is needed, but when I feel so passionate about a game when I beat it, my opinions usually don't change. Wind Waker may have been on the easy side, short it was not (not if you play all the sidequests!), but most of all it was so moving- no moment in a videogame can compare when I stepped into Hyrule for the first time, with everything in black and white, monsters frozen in place, the vast stretching country, the temple devoted to Link, all so much better when it all returned to color. I had tears welling up in my eyes then. That alone propelled it to the heights of OoT for me.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 04, 2003, 03:46:01 PM
Even though I am not a huge fan of it I found Metroid to be a much better game, same goes for ED, and as odd it may seem Wave Race (the best racing game on any console).
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 04, 2003, 03:56:31 PM
I agree that Wind Waker is definitely a very good game, one of the best. It doesn't quite stack up, but Ocarina of Time definitely doesn't either. I do think Wind Waker does some of the more important things (for me) better than OoT, but I guess neither stacks up to the accomplishments of a Link to the Past.
I don't know if there's been a modern game that accomplishes many of the important qualities that a game must have. OoT had a very solid design and very poor feel for the series (lacked quality music). Wind Waker is superior in that aspect for feel, but came up short in some important gameplay areas. If they would have done the damage reduction better it wouldn't glare so much to some people.
Post by: RahXephon on April 04, 2003, 04:15:02 PM
oot, but devoid of character development. Link is like a puppet for crying out loud. WW has character everywhere you look. Every person in the game seems to have a story behind them. And they even change sometimes in the game. Look at the rich-poor girl on Windfall. Link is a PERSON this time. He laughs, becomes angry gets frustrated, shows pain. Now WW is epic, I mean come pn, the story has so much to it, not in a complicated sense, but an enjoable one. You can feel the impact of the game all over. And link has family!!!! He is compasionate. He really feels like a hero. Like if you weren't controlling him, he would still save the day on his own. OoT's Link had no personality as to judge that on, we all believe he would save the day because he is link, but there really is little other reason. People complained about how you just "get" items in WW. Well i think it makes a million times more sense. No more conviently placed chest, now we find things for a reason.
And nothing makes me more mad then hearing it is short. There is so much to do. Saying his game is short is like saying Animal Crossing is to short. There is almost no limit to the fun you can have. The fighting system alone makes me wanna keep battling those moblins and the iron clad guys. And if you think it is short, then you obviously havent hit ORCA on offset 1000 times, or solved all the puzzles on the private isle or even been to every island and found all its secrets. Maybe OoT TAKES longer to beat, but WW makes it seem more relaxing and fun. No more rushing here to there or listen to NAvi.
Wind Waker is the best Zelda to date, if you realize it or not. OoT just feels like another game in comparison.
Post by: Moonwatcher on April 04, 2003, 05:27:13 PM
Not only is this more accurate(it is impossible to objectively judge a game "best ever") but less likely to result in a bunch of whiners telling you why you're wrong.
Post by: Modulus-X on April 04, 2003, 05:51:58 PM
Post by: RahXephon on April 04, 2003, 06:08:12 PM
Post by: RahXephon on April 04, 2003, 06:09:30 PM
Post by: ThePerm on April 04, 2003, 07:22:14 PM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on April 05, 2003, 02:18:51 AM
And all those reviews complain about the fact theres only 4 dungeons, but I count more?
Post by: TheResidentEvil on April 05, 2003, 02:36:02 AM
I agree that Wind Waker is definitely a very good game, one of the best. It doesn't quite stack up, but Ocarina of Time definitely doesn't either. I do think Wind Waker does some of the more important things (for me) better than OoT, but I guess neither stacks up to the accomplishments of a Link to the Past.
I don't know if there's been a modern game that accomplishes many of the important qualities that a game must have. OoT had a very solid design and very poor feel for the series (lacked quality music). Wind Waker is superior in that aspect for feel, but came up short in some important gameplay areas. If they would have done the damage reduction better it wouldn't glare so much to some people. "
Are you drunk? OOT had the best music and was by far much better then LTTP and WWPlus the oot sonds werent retarded (the ones you played) like the ones in ww, with that lame ass baton.
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 05, 2003, 06:02:37 AM
Nor do I think it necessarily needs to be epic. Sure, all Zelda games are, but Link is sort of a forgotten hero, and he tends to disappear and stuff after the games. He just moves on, and. . . I dunno, I'm babbling. Anyway, I'm waiting to give my input on what I think will be a great game.
Post by: yellowfellow on April 05, 2003, 06:04:38 AM
if i was to rank, alttp would be my all time favourite, followed by WW, Oot and then the original Zelda and LA
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 05, 2003, 06:23:05 AM
Quote
The Resident Evil said:
Are you drunk? OOT had the best music and was by far much better then LTTP and WWPlus the oot sonds werent retarded (the ones you played) like the ones in ww, with that lame ass baton.
Just the last few words of your comment tell me you're not being very subjective. And yes, so what if I'm drunk?
A Link to the Past had a way better sound track. I don't know how many people will agree with me, but LttP had the music down. The boss battle music will forever be the music people really hear in their minds when they face a dungeon boss. The music that played when Ganon speaks is also another prime example of where LttP's sound track was better.
Honestly, there's not a whole lot of songs I recall from OoT (or even care to recall). Some of the Ocarina songs are pretty cool, though. You're right, those are better than the ones played with Wind Waker's baton.
I don't have to be drunk to think LttP or Wind Waker is better than OoT. I'm not the only one who feels OoT was lacking. Some people like Majora's Mask more than OoT. Some like Wind Waker more. I know I'm not the only one who prefers LttP over OoT. For me, there was not enough of Hyrule in OoT's world. It felt pretty lifeless. In Hyrule field, the only time I ever felt like I wasn't alone was when I was around monsters (typically at night) or around that running man for a split second. The rest of the time I was just hurridly running to get to a destination before it was dark. Basically, the only places to go were Hyrule Castle and town (becomes less existent as the game wears on), Karakiro village (and Death Mountain aka dungeon place), Zora's cavern (another dungeon), Lake Hylia (dungeon dungeon...), Gerudu valley (more dungeon...), and the farm. In Wind Waker or LttP, if I wanted do something other than dungeon, I'd go exploring people and places. In OoT, I have a huge feeling I've already been everywhere except for the rest of the dungeons. I've talked to a bunch of people, ran across Hyrule field more times than I care to, and am now seeing what non-OoT fans have been talking about. There weren't enough NPC's, side quests, and, for me, the color scheme is off, the music is not as impressive, and I just don't like OoT's Hyrule and story as much.
Now, some good things about OoT: The challenge of playing it. It has the difficulty right. I like the water effects. I like the side-games (fishing, bomb-chu). I like what side-exploration there is (the graveyard is an unforgettable experience for me because I went there early in the game and was wow'd by the overall presentation of OoT). Most of what OoT introduces in gaming concepts is revolutionary to the series. It did a lot of things right in gameplay department, which is why I think some Zelda gamers were happy with it. Great gameplay and enough dungeons. Sadly, for the rest of us who are accustomed to more map than dungeon, OoT presented us with more stress and reminders that 4/9th's of the game is still waiting for us to move on (stupid Navi and that damned cloud over Death Mountain).
Overall, LttP had the music, color scheme, awesome boss fights, and great story. It wasn't a more in-depth story than OoT, but it told it the way I want to hear it. OoT is the unfortunate fat kid that just brings more to the table than I wanted. I don't like a lot of what OoT does. Because of how it attempts to be "something new" and "innovative" I feel it left behind the feel of what a Zelda game was. Wind Waker happens to bring back that feeling somewhat (somehow...).
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 05, 2003, 06:28:51 AM
I like lttp. . . I have it on an emulator (gasp), but I'm currently stuck and haven't been playing much. Link's Awakening is also a very, very good game, with an awesome plot and great ending. Music was pretty good for it, too.
Post by: GoHuskers on April 05, 2003, 10:42:58 AM
[ MAJOR SPOILERS ]
Ganondorf was WAY too easy except for the fact I didn't realize you had to L-taget him when Zelda was shooting arrows at you to "officially" hit him until I had gone through 2 faires, 2 swigs of Grandma's soup, and was down to 4 hearts. If I would go back and do it again knowing what I had to do it would probably only take a couple minutes to beat. Anyway, after beating him I thought I was going to be treated to a great little movie. That was equally dissappointing. You talk to the king, the water falls, the king dies, you float to the top of the ocean in you're little bubble and then the credits roll (which in itself was very boring). So then I'm thinking, "ok this is it?" Then it cuts into another movie and I'm thinking, "Oh, this is the 'real' movie" when in reality it's pretty much the same good-bye seen as the beginning.
[ END SPOILERS ]
This game just didn't cut it for me. In fact, I truly believe Majora's Mask was better than this. After I beat OOT the first time I wanted to go back and do it again and I did about 3 times. Wind Waker just doesn't do that for me. I'm sorry, but it's too easy, it's too short and there's just no interaction. I bet I won't remember anyone's name a month from now. I'd rather have 5 straight dungeons with little in between than 2 dungeons with a lot of sailing around for pieces of the triforce afterwards. IMO, this game is much like Super Mario Sunshine. Both were good games, but were no where near their two predeccessors on the N64. Maybe SMS was a little better than Paper Mario, but you get the point.
Post by: DiggleD44 on April 05, 2003, 01:55:05 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on April 05, 2003, 02:06:19 PM
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 05, 2003, 02:34:09 PM
GoHusker, exactly what are you talking about when you say interaction? I'm experiencing basically the exact opposite where Ocarina of Time lacked an interactive world and Wind Waker seems so deep and vast. I'm not quite sure how you could get through the game without a lot of interaction with the Rito people (you have to interact with them on more than one occasion to progress through the game). There are also the pirates who comprise a large part of the story. I'm pretty sure you won't forget one of their names. There's a lot more people to work with in Wind Waker and I'm not even covering any side quests. The side quests open up a lot of other missions that involve dealing with people.
Maybe the interaction isn't what you are feeling is lacking. The ease of the game and fewer dungeons are the apparent problem. To me, the game plays the exact same as OoT but is a different experience since no damage is done (although one of those knuckle knights almost killed me because I was toying around with him instead of trying to finish him off as quickly as possible).
If any of you are looking for a real good fight that puts Ocarina of Time to shame times ten, go to Outset Island and find the big black pig...
You get into a fight with that thing and you'll be quickly reminded of just how weak and pathetic you are.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 05, 2003, 04:38:03 PM
-slightly tedious going over the vast ocean before getting the transportation spell
-the ganon fight was pretty easy, but i thought it was much more epic than that of OoT...i guess i just like fighting a ganon using dual swords than shooting magic at me
....and man, where Link got him is pretty gruesome for a "E" game dontcha think? also, i dont know about you guys, but i think the end of the game hints at a direct sequal(a la OoT/MM)...one WITHOUT Ganondorf...I believe Ganon will not be resurrected when Ninty's new console comes out
Post by: Caterkiller on April 05, 2003, 05:45:35 PM
Post by: KrazyJ1098 on April 05, 2003, 08:29:57 PM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on April 06, 2003, 03:37:46 AM
Quote
.i have speant a couple hours alone trying to get 500 hits on the old dude on the island.
No offense nolimit, but if that took you a couple hours you either had a bad strategy or you suck at that game
I would say it this way. Wind Waker is better than OOT in every which way (except the music which is debateble, I just preffered the songs and the sound of the Ocarina).But, I think its pretty fair to say that WW isnt as good as OOT was back then. By that I mean, when Ocarina of Time was released, it was lightages better than ANY game out there, it was just too good to put in words. While Wind Waker probably is the best game to date, its not quite that, but just like in Marios case, you can only go 2D-3D once, and the basic Zelda gameplay was already established in OOT. Its practically impossible to have as much innovation as OOT yet remaining true to the series.
Post by: ResidentEvil on April 06, 2003, 08:40:17 AM
Post by: GoHuskers on April 06, 2003, 09:26:25 AM
Quote
GoHusker, exactly what are you talking about when you say interaction? I'm experiencing basically the exact opposite where Ocarina of Time lacked an interactive world and Wind Waker seems so deep and vast. I'm not quite sure how you could get through the game without a lot of interaction with the Rito people (you have to interact with them on more than one occasion to progress through the game). There are also the pirates who comprise a large part of the story. I'm pretty sure you won't forget one of their names. There's a lot more people to work with in Wind Waker and I'm not even covering any side quests. The side quests open up a lot of other missions that involve dealing with people.
[ may contain spoilers ]
Maybe interaction was the wrong word. I guess, to put it bluntly, there wasn't many conversations. You say that you interact with the Rito people a lot throughout the game. I only went to that island twice and the second time I went straight to Meidi. Didn't seem like a lot of interaction to me.
Quote
Maybe the interaction isn't what you are feeling is lacking. The ease of the game and fewer dungeons are the apparent problem. To me, the game plays the exact same as OoT but is a different experience since no damage is done (although one of those knuckle knights almost killed me because I was toying around with him instead of trying to finish him off as quickly as possible).
Not only the ease of the enemies (though fighting Iron Knuckles was pretty fun), but the ease of the puzzles in the dungeon. There was only one time I almost went to the internet for help (It took me forever to figure out how to get underneath the fan in the wind temple). To me LTTP wasn't that fun (probably because the first time I played it was for the GBA and I don't really like adventure games on the Game Boy), but anyway the dungeons were a lot harder than they were for OOT, MM, or WW.
I don't know maybe it's my own fault for not enjoying this game to the fullest. I'll admit that I never spent any more time on an island more than I had to. I also got the game expecting too much. Still, I think Nintendo could've done better. One thing's for sure I'm going to try to keep myself spoiler-free for the next Zelda game to see if that helps.
Quote
If any of you are looking for a real good fight that puts Ocarina of Time to shame times ten, go to Outset Island and find the big black pig...
You get into a fight with that thing and you'll be quickly reminded of just how weak and pathetic you are.
No kidding, I died twice in WW and one of those were at the hands of that evil pig.
Post by: Caterkiller on April 06, 2003, 11:43:38 AM
Post by: AManatee on April 06, 2003, 01:58:50 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on April 06, 2003, 05:04:35 PM
Will the Nintendo Gallery already be opened with pictures I already took already inside?
Post by: WesDawg on April 06, 2003, 06:58:13 PM
Post by: Oogle on April 07, 2003, 05:54:06 AM
EDIT: Too much spoiler action... sorry.
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on April 07, 2003, 06:38:30 AM
Post by: ThePerm on April 07, 2003, 06:56:09 AM
Post by: MarioFoxZelda on April 07, 2003, 02:46:12 PM
Quote
In my opinion, it's at least as good as OoT is. I do think time for feelings to set in is needed, but when I feel so passionate about a game when I beat it, my opinions usually don't change. Wind Waker may have been on the easy side, short it was not (not if you play all the sidequests!), but most of all it was so moving- no moment in a videogame can compare when I stepped into Hyrule for the first time, with everything in black and white, monsters frozen in place, the vast stretching country, the temple devoted to Link, all so much better when it all returned to color. I had tears welling up in my eyes then. That alone propelled it to the heights of OoT for me.
Hehe, I completely agree with you 100% and I think this game is 1000 times better then Ocarina of Time... I hope none of you mind me saying this because I know a lot of you guys like it. I never even beat Ocarina of Time because I found it SOOOOOO boring that right after I got old I stoped playing. Even the bonus disk remains collecting dust.
This Zelda game is now my #1 favourite GCN game because it has one of the best stories out of all my games and that is what I like in games. This game is not dull at any point and yes it is a little easy at points but it is still fun to play. And that Damn Old Guy who I have to hit more than 300 times took me a while to beat. Anyway, my point is that to all the people who thought that Celda was going to suck because of its look... you better go out now and get it. I was once like you and I love this game. (Never thought I would hear myself say that about this game). My second favourite game remains to be Eternal Darkness, and then Wave Race. Yes I have Mario, Fox, Metroid, and Smash but this is the most single player fun you can have. And once again this game is not short. Visit every island and help out each of them with their problems and then come back and tell me it's short.
Long live Link, or at least his next counterpart... I can't wait for the next game and I wouldn't mind seeing some SC2 looking graphics next time around the bend just to give the seires some variety. Hey the game coulda looked worse... Link coulda been made of paper.
Post by: ThePerm on April 07, 2003, 10:17:24 PM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on April 08, 2003, 04:45:54 AM
Post by: Artimus on April 08, 2003, 04:51:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Moonwatcher
Maybe you should replace the words "Best game ever" with My favorite game.
Not only is this more accurate(it is impossible to objectively judge a game "best ever") but less likely to result in a bunch of whiners telling you why you're wrong.
This seems to be the Planet Gamecube (forum) motto.
Post by: nolimit19 on April 08, 2003, 09:09:02 AM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on April 08, 2003, 11:06:47 AM
its not hard, but boring
Anyway, back on the game, I loved everything so far, but now I have to go collecting Triforce pieces, and that kinda sucks IMO, those collectathons shouldnt have to be done, those should be voluntary sidequest for extra items
I dont know, maybe its also a psychological approach, but thinking of the sheer endless things to do in the game, im kinda not motivated to do so. Im fine with 10 hearts and no
*spoiler*
magic armor
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 08, 2003, 01:41:12 PM
Post by: rodtod on April 08, 2003, 03:01:00 PM
Definitely the best Zelda game ever, but you can't really say it's best overall unless you've had a chance to play all the other greats out there
Post by: thepoga on April 08, 2003, 04:48:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ResidentEvil
I'm just sitting back here getting a kick out of all of you that, before it's release, proclaimed WW as the greatest of all time without even playing it. Now that the truth has come out as to this game "falling short" of many people's expectations, you die-hard Zelda fans can just stop trying to put a positive spin on everything. You come in here and say it is soooo fun and invigorating, but at the back of your mind you're thinking, "Dang, I want the Spaceworld Zelda." Well, go ahead and replay the game over and over and over again, (for about what, a couple more years?) and still try to think of it as the greatest game ever. I assure you you will start pissing on WW when the next one comes out
ummm... a lot of people thought it went above expectations. and the negative things are just comments made by nitpickers( im one too so no offense). okay, before u go all "man what is this guy talking about! there is a few that hated the game" dont. I know that. I wasnt a diehard zelda fan and this is my second zelda game. and, people who say good comments about this game are not in denial or something. they arent ALL diehard zelda fans. and saying that "ALL people before its released, proclaimed WW as the greatest game ever without playing it" is just not true. dude. seriously. plus u said that "the truth" that it is falling short of peoples expectaitons. I would also like to say that people like to say what is wrong with a game more than what is good about it. just the majority but not all. residentevil, u like to do this a lot. what is ur ratio of messages that say u like something to how much something sucks or something. ok whatever. i think ur an ok guy just too cynical. in terms of writing on forums. ok whatever.
Post by: mojorizin on April 09, 2003, 03:36:30 AM
I believe Miyamoto mentioned having 2 additional dungeons he wanted in the game, but couldn't get them completed due to time constraints (WW-Master Quest anyone?). If those would have made it, it would have quelled the "too easy, too short" group. Darn shame, that. Remember playing OOT for days and thinking "I have HOW many more temples left?"
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on April 09, 2003, 04:50:36 AM
Yes it doesnt have that many temples, but its not short in gameplay, its certainly bigger that Metroid.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 09, 2003, 08:14:54 AM
However I was bored out of my skull playing it. Every thing you did was spelled out for you, that stupid rock telling you exactly what to do, every creature you talk to giving the most obvious of hints.
There was no sense of adventure to it, everything was so dumbed down it wasnt even funny.
This game could have been the greatest, in the end I cant say I even enjoyed playing it as a result.
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on April 09, 2003, 09:40:41 AM
i barely got any help the way i played it, and most things the stone told my i figured out before anyway
this game has been great so far, i just gotta assemble the triforce pieces and im marking my charts which is a pain
