Community Forums => General Chat => Topic started by: bustin98 on July 11, 2008, 09:50:11 AM
Title: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: bustin98 on July 11, 2008, 09:50:11 AM
Please do not turn this into funhouse material. Sad that I feel I have to request it, huh?
On to the Deep Thoughts, not by Jack Handey.
Imagine if you could strip the shackles of gravity and every other force acting on you and stick to a spot in space. Zero movement. What do you suppose would happen?
I have been thinking on it for a while and I thought I had a good idea of what to expect. But then I had another thought this morning in the shower (always a good time for deep thoughts).
I was thinking that the first thing that would happen is you'd find yourself in empty space faster than thought. The Earth, Solar System, Galaxy, Universe all moving at whatever relative speed. Add to the fact the faster you move the slower time gets, or the slower you are the faster (relative) time is. Meaning you could spend the rest of your days in your spot, but only seconds would have passed on Earth.
But my new thought has to do with the little equation of E=MC^2. The faster you move, the more massive you become. One reason we'll never get close to the speed of light. So, the slower we are, the less massive we are? Does zero movement == zero mass? Would a stationary object suddenly become explosive with this new found energy? You'd never live out your days because you are a bomb?
Well, maybe not, as the mass increase is only apparent to the observer. So, the decrease in mass is also only to the observer. Which makes it seem like if someone was watching you and you stopped in your tracks, you would pop out of existence (no mass). But would there be a release of energy? You would go on living in your spot while some poor fool was too close to your 'exit' point.
Then I had another thought in tagent of what if the Earth's trajectory went over your intended spot. Would you create this hole through the Earth as it moved across? Would the relative speed and supposed loss of mass mean there's nothing there to even create a hole?
Any thoughts?
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: KDR_11k on July 11, 2008, 09:57:06 AM
I think that violates the theory of Relativity since that theory dictates that there IS no zero velocity.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: bustin98 on July 11, 2008, 10:04:34 AM
Oh, its just a 'what if' question. Just like asking what happens at the event horizon of a black hole.
Ok, so what if its not a complete stop, but just shy of it? What exactly would be the limit of how 'slow' you can go?
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: Plugabugz on July 11, 2008, 10:32:56 AM
Wouldn't it like bleed off like the half life of an atom or something? It'll just decrease and decrease infinitely but never exactly reach a stop.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: bustin98 on July 11, 2008, 10:50:51 AM
That is a well-known paradox, but it is only mathmatically speaking. You can take a step, then half a step, then cut that step in half, and so on. If you were in a race, its possible to be moving yet never cross the finish line.
Reality plays out differently. You cannot indefinately cut your steps in half.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: ShyGuy on July 11, 2008, 11:49:07 AM
If you couldn't move, you'd be dead. Then I would take your wallet. Then you would appear to float away. Then you would get Schrodinger's cat syndrome cause the Milky way would ave moved away from you and nobody would be able to observe.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: bustin98 on July 11, 2008, 12:15:49 PM
I may be dead, but you will not be able to observe my death. So did I really die?
PS: My wallet is in my back pocket, but my money is in my shoe.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 11, 2008, 12:48:00 PM
You'd be killed instantly. Earth's orbital velocity is over 100,000 mph. Just from that, ignoring how fast the sun is moving through the galaxy and how fast the galaxy is moving through the universe, you'd either be a grease spot or ashes depending on which side of the Earth you were on when you "stopped." That is, you'd either be slammed into the ground or burn up in the atmosphere, or possibly a little of each depending on the angle. I haven't done the math or even looked up the numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if, taking into account everything, the impact had calamitous effects on the planet.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: bustin98 on July 11, 2008, 01:34:58 PM
I've heard a theory that if you approach the event horizon of a black hole, an observer would watch you stretch and twist in unimaginable ways, on to certain doom. But to you, your journey would be uneventful and you would end up somewhere unharmed. All because of the differing frame of reference.
Is it possible that what is observed by someone on the outside versus what is observed on the inside would reveal alternate outcomes?
What this all comes from is trying to get an idea of being 'outside' the effects of time. Its a can of worms I'm not sure I can get into here. I'm just seeing what kind of thoughts can be generated and how creative the responses are. I like Shyguy's post. It was a good read doing the research on what that cat was/is (is it still alive?).
Another question: can you increase your velocity without moving? Don't give a knee-jerk answer, just think about it.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 11, 2008, 01:50:39 PM
What is nice about these discussions is you can say anything you want and no one can disprove you.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: EasyCure on July 11, 2008, 01:57:13 PM
What is nice about these discussions is you can say anything you want and no one can disprove you.
Let's not take it like that. If you go into something like this with that kind of mindset, nothing new will come out of it. I'd like to think we can take an idea that's presented to us and offer some new perspective on it.
I'm not asking you to say that maybe if you leave the boundaries of gravity that you end up on Eternia where He-Man lives and unicorns frolick, but you could and that would give a new point of view.
And Easycure, smelly is in the eye of the beholder. No way does my feet smell worse that your bellybutton and the collection of lint in there...
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 11, 2008, 02:37:59 PM
I can't. You made me stuck in a point in space. I might be about to rotate about an axis or origin depending on how I flail about, but me as a system won't be able to go anywhere meaningful. Not to mention I wouldn't be able to breath or see anything since I doubt light and precious free-air molecules would even travel anymore. Everything else around me would probably disintegrate upon contact since there's nothing to hold substances together. IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT.
In an event horizon, you'd rip apart. The forces acting on different parts of your body would differ greatly unlike receiving uniform G's as a fighter pilot. One pull would be much MUCH greater than the last, running away with a piece of you.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: EasyCure on July 11, 2008, 02:39:22 PM
edit DAMMIT!
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 11, 2008, 02:41:30 PM
"Another question: can you increase your velocity without moving? Don't give a knee-jerk answer, just think about it."
Having something else move away from you faster after you state it as your reference.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 11, 2008, 02:45:47 PM
Think deep and keep sinking, or stay afloat and be practical?
Expensive HD hyper-realism, or serviceable "good enough" graphics?
Drink or beverage?
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: KDR_11k on July 11, 2008, 04:59:41 PM
Oh, its just a 'what if' question. Just like asking what happens at the event horizon of a black hole.
Ok, so what if its not a complete stop, but just shy of it? What exactly would be the limit of how 'slow' you can go?
The problem is not that there's some magical point you can't reach, the problem is that THERE IS NO ZERO. Relativity says that there are no absolute coordinates, only positions relative to other objects. So the question would still be: Zero compared to what?
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: bustin98 on July 11, 2008, 07:07:16 PM
Ah! That is the question, now isn't it?
Is there movement without another point of reference? Are your actions governed by your surroundings?
In my head, I imagine a point to which I would be attached to. But you say there is no point to attach to if there is nothing to relate the position of that point.
I'm going to think about it some more.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 11, 2008, 07:09:42 PM
You can spin in-place.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: ShyGuy on July 11, 2008, 07:21:29 PM
So when we say fixed coordinates in space, does that mean all your molecules are frozen in place? I assumed your clothes weren't part of it, that's why I looted your corpse. Otherwise we could just hack off pieces and move them elsewhere.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: EasyCure on July 11, 2008, 07:38:57 PM
so let me get this straight, there is no spoon?
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 11, 2008, 07:55:14 PM
I have proof that Eternia and Mongo are through black holes. Sadly I cannot provide that proof in fear of people stealing it and calling it their own!
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 11, 2008, 10:05:05 PM
I was initially disappointed that this thread had nothing to do with The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy like the title made me expect, but this was a fascinating read. I only wish I could contribute something.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: bustin98 on July 11, 2008, 11:13:30 PM
Unfortunately, I have yet to read Hitchikers Guide. Funny how things come together though.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: KDR_11k on July 12, 2008, 03:32:14 PM
Is there movement without another point of reference? Are your actions governed by your surroundings?
In my head, I imagine a point to which I would be attached to. But you say there is no point to attach to if there is nothing to relate the position of that point.
I'm going to think about it some more.
You can imagine a point but that would still be a point of reference. I could define a point that's my exact position and velocity and say I'm standing perfectly still relative to that point. There is no universal absolute position that could be used to determine something's absolute velocity.
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: Caliban on July 13, 2008, 08:45:58 PM
The tenth dimension, a.k.a. a point. (http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php)
Title: Re: For the deep thinkers here
Post by: ThePerm on July 17, 2008, 04:56:43 PM
i wonder how fast do objects human size move towards the suns gravitation?
