Post by: odinfire on April 02, 2003, 06:10:11 AM
When I first started playing WW the exact question of keys came up. There is really no point anymore. In the old games you sometimes even had to figure out how to get them. (i.e. killing all the enemies, thrusting a wall, etc.) I especially dislike the lighting two torches to make the chest appear ??Puzzle?? Its not really a puzzle anymore now is it. Im almost completely through the game and never even touched a faq or gameguide. I remember the old Zelda was much more complicated.
While I do like WW, there are some things that just are NOT Zelda.
-- The original had 9 dungeons if Im not mistaken and even OoT sported 8 plus Ganon's Castle. What happened.
-- I really dont like picking up both Ice and Fire arrows at the same time. Integral items of Zelda have ALWAYS meant having to work for it not easing your way through a "mini-dungeon" or happen to warp yourself to the direct spot the game tells you. Sad. Very Un-Zelda. The fact that the Iron Boots and Gauntlets dont come with a full blown dungeon just sucks. That is either just laziness on the programmers part or a rush job to get the product out. VERY SAD.
-- In Addition A Zelda game would NEVER and I mean NEVER just GIVE you a sacred relic like WW has. (i.e. one of the pearls). Thats like OoT having a character just give you a medallion out of the goodness of their heart or in the original Zelda having someone walk up and give you a piece of the triforce with a smile. This HAD to be one of the dungeons that was axed to meet the release deadline. All in all it just sucks. Personally I would have rather waited a few more months for a full version the way it was intended. Its kinda the reason people want directors cuts of their DVD's.
-- Money means absolutely nothing in the game. Its too easy to come by and there really is nothing to buy except bait and getting your maps read by tingle.
-- And Im sorry... you just cant go from the overly opulant great fairies in OoT to the rather bland great fairies in WW. That was one part of the game me and my friends really looked forward too. What the hell were they going to do to top the great fairies in OoT. We were somewhat disappointed. Plus whats with not being able to go back to the fariy fountains and see the Great Fairies a second time. Again. Disappointing.
-- And where are the Boss Introductions? Things that OoT sucessfully introduced and Zelda should have retained are simply gone or missing.
Its a fine game, it gains in some areas and loses in others. I personally still like LttP and OoT the best but I would place WW in the 90 percentile. Graphics are fine it lends homage to the original but WW is definately a rushed product. Its polished with what it has, but its rushed. Lets just hope the axed dungeons show up in the next installment sometime next year. For complexity go back to Majora's Mask. Old school Zelda in 3D, just not the epic the original was.
And to end this post a personal suggestion:
Play Wind Waker without using the warp cyclones. With the one exception to gain a particular item. It helps to make you feel like you have earned the items in your arsenal. I've already put 25 hours into the game with two dungeons and Ganon's tower to go. I like to savor the flavor as I know another is not coming for a while.
Post by: NickNiteQ93 on April 02, 2003, 04:50:30 PM
Post by: Giolon on April 02, 2003, 05:11:25 PM
"The original had 9 dungeons if Im not mistaken and even OoT sported 8 plus Ganon's Castle. What happened."
There is Forsaken Fortress + Dragon Roost + Forbidden Woods + Tower of the Gods + Forsaken Fortress Redux (doesn't really count, but it's there) + Wind Temple + Earth Temple + Ganon's Castle = 7 Dungeons (Didn't double count FF) PLUS all the extra mini-dungeons, Treasure Hunting, and 42 other islands full of stuff to do. That's quite a lot. Majora's Mask only had 4 dungeons!
"Thats like OoT having a character just give you a medallion out of the goodness of their heart"
Hey, remember Rauru just giving you his medallion in OoT? Oh yeah.
" And Im sorry... you just cant go from the overly opulant great fairies in OoT to the rather bland great fairies in WW. That was one part of the game me and my friends really looked forward too. What the hell were they going to do to top the great fairies in OoT."
I liked these fairies a lot better. The four armed, sort of Buddha Goddess look was a good move to me. I always thought the Great Fairies in OoT and MM looked like cheap hookers. I never liked them, so I guess that is a point of pure taste and the same goes for the WW fairies.
"Money means absolutely nothing in the game. Its too easy to come by and there really is nothing to buy except bait and getting your maps read by tingle."
Money isn't any problem in OoT, Majora's Mask, or LttP either. LttP had that little room with the thief in it under a rock that you could enter as many times as you desired to fill your rupees. Oh yeah, how short our memories are.
Other than those these, I can see where the rest of your comlaints come from but I respectfully disagree. WW is great. Just because a game is "easy" doesn't mean that it's bad, a bad game in the series, or not enjoyable. I don't feel that Ocarina of Time was much harder, and Majora's Mask was mostly only difficult from the time element.
Post by: cmoney on April 02, 2003, 05:32:34 PM
That's my only comment.
Post by: Chris150 on April 02, 2003, 05:58:17 PM
Post by: RahXephon on April 02, 2003, 07:43:14 PM
25 hours and you THAT close to the end. Didnt you run around to have fun. Didn't you play all the mimgames and go to auctions and other cool stuff. Do you even have the picto box. Are you using FAQs or rushing. 25 hours and near the end seems like YOU rushed and not the game.
Post by: BlkPaladin on April 03, 2003, 05:21:06 AM
Post by: theaveng on April 03, 2003, 08:26:57 AM
OOT WW
-3- -3- Gemstone Dungeons
-5- -2- Sage Dungeons
=============
-8- -5- TOTAL
Rather disappointing for me.
---The sea voyages were long and tedious. Some sort of "Time x4" function would have been nice early in the game.
--- The bosses were all wimps. In Ocarina every boss killed me at least once (some many times!). In Wind Waker, I didn't die once.
And no, it's not just the reduced damage. The bosses in Ocarina didn't just inflict more damage. They were also a lot harder to hit. Phantom Ganandorf was a major pain in the ass to kill. Ditto the Twinrova witches. Those Ocarina bosses required a LOT of skill to hit. Not so with the Wind Waker wimps.
--- The story was rather weak. I wish they had used more cutscenes explaining what the Master Sword is, why the Triforce is important, where Ganandorf came from, who the Goddesses are, why the Sages exist, and so on. They did this stuff in Ocarina, so don't understand why they skipped it here. After all, not everyone's played Ocarina. The backstory should have been fleshed out a little more.
--- Too much wandering around doing collection fests. Same flaw as Starfox Adventures.
(Irony: When Starfox did it, people thought it was annoying. When Link does it, then it's okay. Don't understand that.)
Just so I'm not completely negative:
- The anime-style graphics are beautiful. I hope to see more games like this. Like Mario. Or Pikmin. Or even Animal Crossing. Looking at an animation is more satisfying than looking at traditional CGI.
- The surround sound is flawless. Probably the best surround sound I've ever heard!
Troy
Post by: Bloodworth on April 03, 2003, 08:47:15 AM
Post by: BlkPaladin on April 03, 2003, 11:42:19 AM
:Spoilers"
YOu get it by shooting Cyclonus three time with an arrow.
Post by: GoHuskers on April 03, 2003, 12:11:09 PM
As for my complaints....-- Wow, this game was short. OOT took me like 4 times as long to beat. Probably because I was younger then, but still this game is short. There's only 5 dungeons and the only reason it takes any real amount of time at all is because you're finding yourself sailing for over half of the time. That brings me to my next point....
-- What's with all the ridiculous objectives that serve no other purpose than to piss you off. Examples being the quest to get the fire and ice arrows, the iron boots, and the gold rings. Another example would be the triforce chart on Outset Island. What the heck?!! That was completely pointless. It took me like 45 minutes and I only got hit a couple of times. My mom fell asleep while watching it. Instead of all the stupid sailing around and quests I just mentioned why not include a couple more dungeons?
-- Another thing, this game had little to no character interaction. The only thing you really talked to a lot was your boat. Other than him you just sailed around most of the time. This complaint kind of coincides with my next.
-- Before getting the game I read all about how massive in size this game was. I got really excited and was let down when I got the game. There's really only three large islands where there's anyone to talk to and only one of those has stuff to do. I bet if you took all the land area in WW and put it together it wouldn't be much bigger than Hyrule in OOT. Shoot, it might even be smaller. This really dissappointed me.
-- I was also disappointed with the way the characters looked. I mean the backrounds looked awsome, but the characters looked very poor. For all those suggesting someone get a CAT scan for not liking the graphics I have to laugh. You honestly think this is better than realism? OOT and MM may have looked bad by todays standards with blocky somewhat discolored figures, but look at what they can accomplish now. The characters in WW reminded me of the characters in Mario Party 1. They looked like they used the same style only in WW the characters had fingers and were a little more smooth. The cel-shading was all right and it was a lot better than what I had originally anticipated, but the characters kind of made me mad. Look at Ganondorf for cryin' out loud. When I first saw his face I burst out laughing.
-- You can read theaveng's post about the story. It's exactly what I think.
Now with all of my complaints aside I will say this is a great game and I'd recommend it to anyone. However, as great as this game may be, it's definately not as good as OOT. Too short, too much time spent doing nothing, and not enough interaction. Still, a great game none-the-less. I'd give it a 9.5/10, but not the 10/10 I gave OOT. BTW, just to please some of you I didn't use any sort of strategy guide or anything like that.
Lastly, did anyone enjoy the earth temple as much as I did? Great level.
Post by: yellowfellow on April 03, 2003, 03:31:15 PM
some things were just incredible though, like the wind temple boss... he looked frikin cool.
all in all, i really enjoyed WW and have already started the second quest, after beating it today. alttp was by far my favourite zelda (with the original second and Oot third) and well, this one seemed more in line with those zeldas.
as for getting a pearl right away, i prefer that kind of assymetry with the story... learning about these temples you have to go to get something and then once all things are recovered the temple rises and then you face the last temple, is so cliche now. true, it's obvious a couple temples were removed and it would've been nice to have these temples, focusing on making the story flow seems to be the trend now, and i like it.
remember what denis dyack said, that "back when movies were [young]" people were using camera tricks to "get noticed", but once the camera was standardized then "those with the content were the ones getting recognized" and with todays plateauing technology, the same thing is happening.
Post by: Rellik on April 03, 2003, 04:05:47 PM
That puzzle at the end was AWESOME! Unfortunately, it was WAY too easy... it looks complicated, but it's fairly linear. Are the developers afraid to make us spend time on puzzles anymore?
I thought the ice-boots and power-bracelets thing was cool... I have no complaints with that. It's more fun if you can get in there, see new sights, fight some battles, get a new item, and then get out so you can do what you really want to do again. I get the feeling that there are two types of Zelda-players: those that play for the dungeons, and those that play for everything else. Of course it's not mutually exclusive, and everyone likes most of everything, but there's a distinct difference. I agree that there probably should have been more big islands, perhaps a couple that took up more than one block, and more than one per block of the small ones... but if that were to happen, I think that would make the map too big, taking too long to get across and taking too much memory. Maybe in the future, but for now, this size with one island per block, mostly small, is just fine.
Why does dungeon-count even matter? Oh yeah, I forgot again... some people play for the dungeons.
Post by: Okiva77 on April 03, 2003, 08:49:52 PM
Negatives:
Too easy. Its a Zelda standard to have things essentially spelled out for you, with different color type or some naked clue, but come on. This game has been hella easy so far. The bosses are indeed wimps. Gogeous to behold and exciting to experience, believe me, but small challenge.
Item collecting. What, did Rare have a hand in this game? Find the map, find the treasure. Yawn.
And what the hell is up with the iron boots and gold bracelets? I too wish Nintendo had delayed the game to include the axed dungeons. I want to EARN this shiznit. With the power of the Cube, there could have been more enemies in certain areas of the dungeons.
That's about it for me. Im really enjoying the story and how its presented. It's a bit too easy and too much f'ing collecting, though i guess treasure hunting makes sense with the ocean theme.
I still recommend Wind Waker highly. I still think the best games are A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. Still king and queen to me.
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 03, 2003, 09:35:56 PM
QuoteI have to completely disagree with this. If you are trying to get all the heart pieces as well as any side quest money is a big deal in this game. Most things are very expensive and rupees maybe easy to come by but you still don't really get enough considering there are some items that are necessary for getting everything that are 900+ rupees. Money in Ocarina of Time on the other hand was completely worthless in my opinion pretty much the only thing you had to pay for was the minigames and the shield at the beginning of the game. Everything that you could buy in the stores could be fairly easily obtained for free. Sure you couldn't get potions for free but with fairies what was the point anyway.
Originally posted by: odinfire
-- Money means absolutely nothing in the game. Its too easy to come by and there really is nothing to buy except bait and getting your maps read by tingle.
Although I originally said the dungeons were pretty challenging I now take that back. I've whizzed through the last few with very little problems. I've been able to walk into a room and in a matter of seconds figure out how to solve the rather simple puzzles. Most of this stuff is things we've already seen in Ocarina and then it's usually at its simplest and easiest form. If we are going to light torches at least make it challenging by making us run from one end of the room to the other or makes a go through some complicated maze.
Or how about that just about every puzzle revolves around stepping on switches. Did the game designers make these puzzles with the mentally challenge in mind. It certainly doesn't take that much brain power to walk into a room, see a switch, and know that you have to step on it. Especially after it's the thousandth room with one. *Oh, no this switch won't stay down when I walk off it! What ever shall I do. Oh, there's a statue over there that I can pick up and put on top of it. Jesus that was the hardest Zelda dungeon puzzle ever. I'm glad that's over!* Or how about when you have to move blocks around and it's been set up so that you can only move them where they are supposed to go. It's actually pretty pathetic just how easy they made the puzzles. Hell, you can barely even classify most of them as puzzles. I just hope this isn't a trend will see with future Zelda games.
All in all the game is still great and in my opinion is one of the best Zelda games. Looking at its story and other ground breaking things it's the best Zelda game but judging it by it's difficulty and similar factors it definitely falls short.
Post by: zumpiez on April 03, 2003, 09:48:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Okiva77
Item collecting. What, did Rare have a hand in this game? Find the map, find the treasure. Yawn.
And what the hell is up with the iron boots and gold bracelets? I too wish Nintendo had delayed the game to include the axed dungeons. I want to EARN this shiznit. With the power of the Cube, there could have been more enemies in certain areas of the dungeons.
One Iron Boots dungeon in my lifetime was enough, thank you. ^_^
Post by: theaveng on April 04, 2003, 01:34:37 AM
As for buying Wind Waker's triforce map translations, I think it's ridiculous. I'm going around and cutting stupid grass just to find rupees. Collecting these rupees is about as pointless as collecting the notes in Banjo-Kazooie... except of course, Banjo-Kazooie was a lot more fun than cutting grass.
QuotePlease re-read: "Some sort of "Time x4" function would have been nice EARLY in the game." Previous sea-voyage games I've played had that speed-up function, because staring at oceans is not very exciting.
Originally posted by: BlkPaladin
You could speed up the sea voages by getting the Gales magic which is a warp magic.
.
.
.
I just reached the "sail the world and search for triforce maps" section. My God! This is like torture!!! Wasting days on end, sailing on a boring sea, and searching every-nook-and-cranny is horrible. ZELDA SUCKS (well, the Wind Waker anyway).
Up to this point I thought, "Well Wind Waker's good... just not as good as Ocarina," but now I think it's the worst A-list title I've played in the last year. This tedious triforce task is worse than my job. There's no fun here.
I've whipped out the guide now. I'm not going to waste my time playing hide-n-seek with riforce maps. Man, Ocarina was 1000% better than this WW triforce search crap. Even Starfox Adventures was better.
Troy
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 04, 2003, 01:45:19 AM
Post by: yellowfellow on April 04, 2003, 04:59:31 AM
and if you want lots of rupees go through the savage dungeon for a bit... the enemies don't give you rupees, but the jars at the end of each section give you a fair amount...
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 04, 2003, 07:22:06 AM
There is no way in hell I am buying a freaking gameboy so I can get an extra in a game I have already payed for. I think this whole concept is utterly rediculous. This is the king of crap MS would pull, you want this you have to buy this as well then.
One is a handheld one is a console, leave them seperate, or at least give people who have no desire at all to buy a handheld they will never use another option as far as accessing tingle.
Nintendo is really starting to wear on me.
Post by: yellowfellow on April 04, 2003, 08:23:43 AM
in this case, it's smart since SO many people have a GBA already and these extras just add another reason to warrent a purchase of a game
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 04, 2003, 09:08:04 AM
I don't even understand what the hell the point was to posting that comment.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 04, 2003, 09:23:17 AM
It doesnt matter anyways as I will never finish WW, I just cant stand playing it anymore.
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 04, 2003, 10:22:06 AM
QuoteOh, and like that whole bit there wasn't offensive. Yet if someone gets defensive over that then they are wrong for doing that. Frankly I'm glad you'll be missing out on the rest of Wind Waker. Good way to punish yourself. Sure it has its faults but over all it's a great game.
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
There is no way in hell I am buying a freaking gameboy so I can get an extra in a game I have already payed for. I think this whole concept is utterly rediculous. This is the king of crap MS would pull, you want this you have to buy this as well then.
Post by: GoHuskers on April 04, 2003, 03:06:35 PM
Post by: Okiva77 on April 05, 2003, 12:57:08 PM
The best part of the game so far for me in terms of combat is the Savage Dungeon. Finally, some challenge.
And for real! The puzzles in this game are 99% weak. Half the time I walk into a room, I freelook about the area and can already figure everything out.
It's really a bummer. It's like a twinkie that didn't get enough filling.
Come on Nintendo!!! Mario's been stained, not Zelda too! Why are you doing this to me???
Post by: theaveng on April 05, 2003, 02:05:55 PM
Post by: theaveng on April 05, 2003, 02:05:57 PM
Post by: theaveng on April 05, 2003, 02:05:59 PM
Troy
Post by: zumpiez on April 05, 2003, 03:17:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: theaveng
GameCube is known as the "kiddie console" and Zelda seems to confirm it. It's like the game was designed for a kid's level of intelligence.
Troy
And yet on the day of it's release people were posting in here thinking the words Sidle and Fell were typos.
Post by: theaveng on April 06, 2003, 09:12:29 AM
Troy
Post by: codyy on April 06, 2003, 02:19:34 PM
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 06, 2003, 05:24:31 PM
Post by: ArmchairAthlete on April 06, 2003, 10:36:14 PM
-I agree on having another couple dungeons. Nayru's Pearl DEFINITELY should have had a dungeon, and maybe a mini-dungeon or two could have been expanded into a full fledged dungeon or at least have gotten bigger. I don't care at all if it would've taken another month or so to come out since I just dust off the Gamecube whenever an AAA title comes out and spend 90% of my gaming time with online pc games.
-Bosses also seemed very easy, almost always didn't even need a fairy or potion! They should do something like twice as much damage as they do now. I want a patch err... this isn't Warcraft Expansion beta nevermind
. -Genral easiness all around. Nintendo probably didn't want the game to be too hard for the average player, the "Zelda vet" is in the minority most likely. I think I only died once and that was at the very beggining when I chopped up a pig so much it went postal and killed me... there was no way to get away! ah! Funny though.
-The stupid Pirate's Charm stone telling you almost exactly what to do and spoiling puzzles. Seems like sometimes I hadn't even been in a room a minute before the damn thing goes off, can't really ignore it since it is your A button... The "helpers" in later dungeons also give away puzzles. Guess they wanted to newbify the game some so begginers wouldn't get frustrated... yuck.
-The boat should have moved faster while sailing and cruising. Sitting there watching it take so long to get to a destination is boring. And yes I know you can teleport later on, you still have to sail quite a bit tough.
"--- The story was rather weak. I wish they had used more cutscenes explaining what the Master Sword is, why the Triforce is important, where Ganandorf came from, who the Goddesses are, why the Sages exist, and so on. They did this stuff in Ocarina, so don't understand why they skipped it here. After all, not everyone's played Ocarina. The backstory should have been fleshed out a little more." -good one here.
-The tedious/overly long "find the triforce peices" crap. There should have been something like only 5 peices. Would have been great if one was in a real dungeon too.
-The Redead ripoffs. They took the most annoying enemy in OoT, and just copied the same thing into Wind Waker. Bleh. Shoulda made a new "zombie" enemy I suppose.
Thats about all I can think of right now. Still a great game of course.
EDIT: Another thought: all the time they wasted on the "Tingle Tuner" to get people to buy a GBA was stupid. The effort should have gone into another dungeon, something everyone could have enjoyed. Who needs more help in these dungeons anyhow?
Post by: odinfire on April 09, 2003, 12:58:41 PM
What ever happened to the overly "plump" fairy in LttP? I hope she's doing ok.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on April 10, 2003, 09:04:15 AM
If the King of Hyrule could plead to the Goddess' to flood Hyrule, why couldn't he have just pleaded for them to save the land, instead of flooding the land (which is stupid in itself, but this way Nintendo can conveniently get the game they want)? And why at the end did he use the Triforce to wash away the castle instead of saving the land? By my account Zelda 2: Adventures of Link should be the last game in the series, and if Hyrule was flooded in Wind Waker, which is set about 100 years after Ocarina of Time and before A Link to the Past, then how would the New Hyrule (it would have to be new since Old Hyrule was destroyed in Wind Waker) have their towns named after the Sages in Ocarina of Time? (I thought it a wonderful idea to give the Sages the same name's as the towns in Zelda 2, BTW) How would New Hyrule know about the Sages to name the towns after them?
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time is where Ganondorf becomes pig-man Ganon, or at least Nintendo wants us to think. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past is where Ganondorf is already Ganon -aside from his short stint as the wizard Ahgnamin (sp?) and the instance of the Dark World being corrupted by him and became pig-man Ganon (I thought he was pig-man Ganon in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time at the last battle?, there are holes and inconsistencies in the stories. How can he become pig-man in Ocarina when in A Link to the Past, the corruption of the Golden Land ala Dark World turns him into Ganon?) This would make sense (him becoming pig-man in A Link to the Past; because in the very first The Legend of Zelda game, it is just pig-man Ganon and he his killed at the end and the whole premise of Zelda 2: Adventures of Links is about the forces of evil trying to resurrect Ganon.
The only thing I can think of is that The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker takes place after the events of all the other previous Zelda games, meaning that every Zelda game previously has been within a 100 year time period.
MY ZELDA TIME LINE
1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
2. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
3. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
4. The Legend of Zelda
5. Zelda 2: Adventures of Link
6. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
7. The Legend of Zelda: The Oracle of Season's
7. The Legend of Zelda: The Oracle of Age's
(The true ending of the Oracle games have pig-man Ganon in the process of being resurrected)
8. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
By my calculations, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker is now the last game in the series story-wise, it would rule out a New Hyrule, at least until the next Zelda game, but doesn't help to fill in the gaps about the first truth of pig-man Ganon. Was the pig-man Ganon at the end of Ocarina not really pig-man, but merely a form Ganondorf took on out of rage, and that he wasn't forever connected to the form, being that his corruption of the Golden Land into the Dark World making him pig-man Ganon by reflecting his true form (of course if he had the Moon Pearl he could just reverse the effects, or was he corrupted to the point that it was permanent?)
So, when did Ganondorf really become Ganon?
Post by: LMSx on April 10, 2003, 02:19:18 PM
1. Draw distance
-Yes, draw distance. I don't care what Planet Gamecube says, blurry 2-D textures that substitute as islands are NOT impressive. The other islands fade out of texturing WAY too fast.
2. Dungeons
-Whoever said the Forbidden Fortress is a dungeon is glaringly blind. There are 5 dungeons. That's it. Dragon Roost Island, Forest Haven, Tower of the Gods, Earth Temple, Wind Temple.
DRI and TotG are the only comparable ones, design wise, to Majora's Mask and OoT. Does anyone have an idea how irratating it is that there are only 2 dungeons AFTER the 'big revelation' of Hyrule? Ocarina had 5. Nintendo released an inferior product. I'm amazed this is their headlining product.
Unfinished-a few more soon.
Post by: Mike-OPN2000 on April 10, 2003, 05:58:11 PM
Post by: Marcus Arillius on April 13, 2003, 03:44:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: theaveng
True....but we were discussing the game's *difficulty* not the language. The game's puzzles and bosses are soooo easy that it's like Nintendo targeted 10-yr-olds.
Troy
I have to agree.
Post by: Marcus Arillius on April 13, 2003, 03:47:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: LMSx
I've got some complaints.
1. Draw distance
-Yes, draw distance. I don't care what Planet Gamecube says, blurry 2-D textures that substitute as islands are NOT impressive. The other islands fade out of texturing WAY too fast.
2. Dungeons
-Whoever said the Forbidden Fortress is a dungeon is glaringly blind. There are 5 dungeons. That's it. Dragon Roost Island, Forest Haven, Tower of the Gods, Earth Temple, Wind Temple.
DRI and TotG are the only comparable ones, design wise, to Majora's Mask and OoT. Does anyone have an idea how irratating it is that there are only 2 dungeons AFTER the 'big revelation' of Hyrule? Ocarina had 5. Nintendo released an inferior product. I'm amazed this is their headlining product.
Unfinished-a few more soon.
I agree with everything except for the draw distance. I was rather impressed with the draw distance. However, I was so pissed that there were only 2 dungeons after the revelation. I could not believe it. So thats my complaint. The game was way too short, and it was not challenging. It felt like a sidestory.
Post by: ThePerm on April 13, 2003, 09:49:44 PM
Post by: Biohazard on April 14, 2003, 01:58:32 PM
(PS Sailing sucks horribly just to add)
Post by: ThePerm on April 14, 2003, 09:42:55 PM
Post by: RahXephon on April 14, 2003, 09:45:39 PM
Post by: GeN on April 15, 2003, 07:06:38 AM
I also think they ending of WW could have been more deeper after playing the original OOT. You go through all the trouble of saving your lil sister and bringing her back to the island just to see her and the the rest of the townspeople wave bye? I would've appriciated some thanks from his grandmother.
Other than those things I think the game is magnificent and would recommend it to any GCN owner.
Post by: telaris on April 15, 2003, 02:05:43 PM
*Ahem* Back to the topic.
Windwaker is the most well-rounded game in the series. Period. If you think otherwise explain to me how Lttp or OOT were better. I can beat Lttp in the course of 1 weekend. In OOT all they did was ship you to one dungeon after the next, much more repetetive. In WW you're never doing the same thing for two long. Now maybe this is just a personal preference for me but I enjoy side-quests more than dungeons. There's Just something about starting a new dungeon that makes my stomach quiver. OOT had about 15 NPC's. WW has like 50 NPC's along with about 50 islands. When I beat OOT I had nothing left to do. Theres still islands i havent visited in WW and i still have some items like the camera DX to find. Then when they released Majoras Mask they tipped the scales the opposite way Created much more side quests than dungeons. Anduntil going to forums online i had no gripes about the game. Windwaker has the perfect balance of dungeons and side-quests, well thats just what I think.
Now to the story-line.
For shame. All of you. This game breaks off with the traditional "Rescue the princess" story. And throws in twists and turns that are simply enthralling. I was engaged from start to finish. This is the only game i could play for more than 2 and a half hours.
Again explain to me why any other Zelda game is better. And try and do it professionaly like most of you do
PGC readers really DO bitch about everything!
"Money means absolutely nothing in the game. Its too easy to come by and there really is nothing to buy except bait and getting your maps read by tingle."
Guess you never played any auctions.
Post by: "Sky" on April 15, 2003, 03:35:03 PM
BTW, I've been playing OOT and TWW back to back and I find OOT's bosses just as easy as TWW's. Ganon in OOT was also quite possibly one of the easiest last bosses I ever fought. I seriously wanted to get hit by that guy cause I was baffled at him. BTW, I never had to use a fairy or a potion in either OOT or TWW.
OOT's dungeons are harder, yes. But not by too much. The only really "tough" dungeon was the Water Dungeon but that was because you had to go through the same thing over and over again. You change the water level, and find out that you have to go all the way around to do it again. The rest of OOT's puzzles weren't really that tough.
This it not a bash towards OOT, I love both OOT and TWW, but I still stand that now that people have a style for the game that they dislike they are going to start pointing out flaws in TWW that they ignored in OOT.
Post by: Cobot on April 20, 2003, 07:05:21 PM
Well, I'm only at the Earth/Wind temples, but I've explored the whole grid on the map, completed most of the minigames/sidequests, and I have to say that Zelda: WW is proably within my Top 3 games of all time!
Basically, what I like is the detail and character interaction (contrary to what someone else said earlier on). Character interaction, especially on Windfall Island (and even more with the pictobox and decorating the town), really impressed me. People have a good amount to say and most of it is interesting. This is the first game to give me a tear, because the part with his grandmother (when you heal her) reminded me of my grandmother (who has since passed away). And did anyone notice that when you get the deed to the cabana, the square on the map changes the island name to "YOURNAME Oasis", so for me it was Cobot's Oasis. Cool. I think I like it more than some other people because I prefer the sidequests and interacting with people more than the dungeons.
What I didn't like was mostly tied with sailing. I think that the warp should have been essential the game rather than something you might find out, and I was forced to changed the wind TOO OFTEN. It became very annoying. Other than that, I was actually hoping for another town like Windfall, rather than most people looking for more dungeons.
A fantastic game, and even though it was released with axed dungeons, we should all appreciate the polish in the game. Wow!!!
Post by: Ninja X on April 21, 2003, 12:02:21 PM
The game's WAY too easy. Simply too easy. I did not die even once. Whenever an enemy or a boss hit me, it usually just took one quarter of a heart off. That means it would require four hits in most cases just to take off one of Link's hearts. Not to mention Elixir Soup just made the game three times easier.
Other negatives are really small complaints about the game. Overall, it was just the difficulty that was the problem.
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 21, 2003, 12:28:06 PM
I only use it to restore magic.There was something else that bugged me, but I can't remember what. Oh well. . . mustn't be that important.
Post by: zumpiez on April 22, 2003, 04:25:10 PM
Post by: Lao-tzu on April 30, 2003, 11:34:46 AM
UG.
What went wrong??
Now, I'm not a 'it needed to look realistic like OoT did" That's silly, given that OoT had characters with huge eyes, and heads cartoonly proportioned to their bodies.
So why does everyone think OoT was realistic?
Because it drew us in, and made itself part of our imagination. It had story, story , setting, and story. And characters.
Guess what? Saria (or something) in OoT didn't look as realistic as your sister in WW, but you *cared* when she got captured. It was because she was a character, and you care about characters.
WW lacked any setting. Physically, yes, it had a setting, but really.. what was new? What sparked your imagination? Water? You've seen it beofre, and this was not the impressive water you can see at many beaches.
(That being said, I live on the coast, so maybe other people haven't seen the ocean so much)
We have Fields, Castles, and mountains too.. So why did OoT Hyrule appear so great?
Because it wasn't "realistic" it was the best type of fantasy: it gives us something un-real, and makes us believe in it.
Why wern't the waves huge, why wasn't there any white caps. The WW ocean did nothing for me.
"But it was so big"
Big doesn't make a game good. In fact, if you took 3 stages in an adventure, and put them in a small area, then it would seem small, but you'd have a lot to do.
WW was big, but didn't have many more stages then the smaller OoT.
And thus: sailing became a chore, because there wasn't intersting trees to roll into, or holls to find, or anything else.
Windfall island was the best of the game. In a TINY area, they fit a ton of game play. There's all sorts of neat things to do.
--
And the worst part (with spoilers) is this:
Where was that twist ending I've been hearing about? Where was the increadible boss fight I read in all the reviews. Did I miss something? It was the classic Zelda story, without introducing Zelda as a princess. (They turned a good character, Tetra, into Zelda, and promplty forgot that she had a character. THey ignored her mind once she changed clothes)
So maybe I missed something. I was expecting (what turned out to be) the last fight, to be a "Ganon kicks my ass and I need to go see the sages" thing.
So I do it, and then they do a cut sceen that puts me on a roof and in the last fight of the game?
--
So yeah. I LOVED OoT and MM was okay... But I'm not a Nintendo fan, I'm a quality fan. I'd apreasiate no "lay off Zelda" "go get an x-box" or whatever, but I'd like some thoughts (even if they're different) about the points I just said.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 02, 2003, 12:37:04 PM
I found nothing particularly spectacular about Hyrule, in that sense. I thought the islands, while small, were very diverse and interesting. Hyrule was just as good, but. . . so what? While I agree that there should've been more big islands, it was still quite good, in my opinion.
You need serious help if your idea of fun is rolling into trees.
And there of plenty of holes on the islands, so that's not worth complaining about. It's not like there were even that many in Hyrule, either.
Tetra did not change her personality. Initially, right when she changed, she was confused, so she may have seemed meek. On the roof, though, did you not notice her at all? Her comments and sly winks that are so common with Tetra? The fact that she helped you battle Ganondorf? And afterward, back on the surface, she was just the same as always.
I thought the last fight was cool and fairly challenging. I spent thirty minutes fighting him the first time because I didn't know to do the evasive attack, but even the second time was fun. Plus the ending opens up brand new doors to the world of Zelda.
The ocean bothered me initially, but then I just looked at myself and said, "What's your problem?" I then got over my own idiocy and had a great time playing the game. And travelling is a breeze (heh heh, get it?) with the warp song.
Post by: Lao-tzu on May 02, 2003, 05:27:09 PM
Okay, I'll buy that she was confused or meek when she made the change, but that's an awful waste of a good character expanding moment.
But that obvious forshadowing line "You stay here where it's safe" to the bad ass pirate chick.. lead to nothing.
Also, yeah she helped in the last battle, but she did so just like Zelda did in OoT (A VERY different character)
Even in the mannor it wsa done.. She walked with a princessly air, and shooting an arrow.
The obvious thing to would be have her do something that shows off her pirate liniage. Then we could all go "Ha! I knew that would come in handy!"
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 03, 2003, 06:34:50 PM
Post by: Lao-tzu on May 03, 2003, 08:14:14 PM
Sorry, but that doesn't change her character.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 04, 2003, 07:49:24 AM
Plus, she's not a complete bad-@ss in her pirate clothes, either. Sure, she's tough and all, but not extremely so. More clever than tough, in my opinion. Besides, did you see, on Spectacle Island, the game dude's imitation of her.
Funny.
Post by: Lao-tzu on May 04, 2003, 12:00:23 PM
Which is an other thing about the game I was disapointed by.. the build up of the story.
I had 3 hearts over half, no extended magic metre, didn't have 2 places on my item screen done, hadn't done the camera quest, found out what that guy likes that's round and white. (Or something), found Lerenzos girlfriend, found who writes letters, did anything with Tingles slaves (hahaha)..
Oh. Or watered any plants.
...And this is only what I remember off the top of my head.
And why did I not complete all this? Well, because I thought that I wasn't going to actually be able to beat Ganon. I figured, duh, I'll try, there'll be a cut sceen.. and the second half of the game starts.
Gosh, lets look at the requiered elements to the game:
2 dungons for 2 stones.
1 stone given to you.
1 dungon to get down there.
2 dungons for a working sword
search and rescue for 16 things (map and pieces)
..And you're done?
..
Anyway.. I think I was just being optimistic, but yeah.
An other problem was the lack of characters.
When I say characters, by the way, I mean someone who changed during the span of the game.
In OoT, the guy who carries the wood was not a character, but his boss was.
In my opinion, that bird race relationship thing was a flop.. I just couldn't get into it..
And Maker changed.. but the other people of that race turned into little quest markers.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 04, 2003, 12:57:10 PM
As for characters that change, it's unrealistic. People just don't change unless something drastic happens (like becoming a sage or finding out you're a princess). Mostly, nothing happened to affect most of the characters. In OoT there was a span of seven years, which allows for much more opportunity to change or develop personalities.
Post by: Lao-tzu on May 05, 2003, 02:29:36 PM
It doesn't have to be deep and meaningful, like turning into a princess.. it can be quirky and fun, but also very truethful.
Majora's Mask had a town full of people and they all changed in 3 days, not 7 years.
(Of course, they did have some major stuff happening...)
But some of those quests involved totally trivial things.
Plus, big things were happening, why didn't they respond to those?
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 05, 2003, 03:44:12 PM
That's called development, not change. And the characters do develop. There are quite a few characters that you learn more about, and some characters change, like the two father-daughter rich/poor people. And changes for trivial reasons aren't really changes, just personality quirks. Just because someone happens to say something once doesn't mean that can define their personality.
Post by: OldMan Nintendo on May 05, 2003, 04:19:45 PM
I remember when I fought Ganon in OoT -- now THAT was a final boss battle! It had everything: thunder and lightning in the background, Zelda screams when you get hit, the dark, moody environment, Ganon's sheer size, and the music.... oh, the music for that battle!! When I did that fight for the first time I actually had a shot of fear go through my entire body, like I was going to lose something very close to me if I lost this battle. Very few games can do that to me -- it is those few games that sell like hot cakes on a winter day.
The final fight in WW I found to be dissapointing: you fight Ganondorf with Zelda assisting you in defeating him, which takes half the workload away from you. I was prepared to fight Ganon and looking forward to what it'd look like cel-shaded... but now that's only a figment of my imagination.
I hope that the next Zelda game has a much more dramatic final boss fight.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 06, 2003, 11:46:04 AM
Post by: Zach on May 10, 2003, 06:41:30 PM
