Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Ceric on April 01, 2008, 04:50:18 PM
Title: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on April 01, 2008, 04:50:18 PM
Let me set the record straight. I really tried to like Wind Waker. I really did. First long trip with my wife was to pick up Wind Waker. Its a cute story but thats beside the point.
I think the game was great in many many ways BUT the game did not take advantage of the excellent combat system and that stupid stupid stupid ocean. Way to much of it. If you wanted to pop out and kill some baddies it was just not possible. In fact some of my complaints with WW went over to TP. If they remake the game or make a sequel I'll probably buy it hoping that the game live up to its potential.
If I get some free time I'll try to run through all of it again but, no promises.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: ShyGuy on April 01, 2008, 04:57:33 PM
Let me get this straight: - Long trip to pick up Wind Waker - Doesn't like long trips in Wind Waker - Irony - ???? - Profit.
I didn't mind the sailing myself. Plus I really liked Windfall Island. The "Feng Shui" of the island layout was perfect.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 01, 2008, 05:00:22 PM
I want a sequel with even MORE sailing...I love sailing so much... :heart;
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: EasyCure on April 01, 2008, 05:12:07 PM
Screw the sailing, they already did that. It's time for nintendo to innovate!
In TP link was a rancher right? Why not explore that in more depth. Hell why not even make him farm!!!
The Legend Of Zelda: The Moon of Harvest... <3
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 01, 2008, 05:15:16 PM
It's a good thing Nintendo's never making traditional Zelda games again. That way, we'll never get another Wind Waker nor Twilight Princess.
Link's Fitness Training Link's Lon Lon Rodeo and Bombchu Bowling for WiiWare will round out the rest of the generation
Srsly, skip Okami and get Mario Kart.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: vudu on April 01, 2008, 05:18:00 PM
From a purely visual standpoint, Wind Waker is the most beautiful game I've ever seen. I absolutely adore the style, and I hope they make another game (Zelda or otherwise) with the same graphics.
The only part in Wind Waker where I felt cheated is when Jabun just outright handed me the third pearl. My heart sank a little bit at that point in the game. Other than that, the game is absolutely perfect.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Smoke39 on April 01, 2008, 05:19:19 PM
They should replace sailing with a hot air balloon, out of which you would sky dive to reach your various destinations.
Naturally, Tingle would be floating around up in the sky as well, serving as both a beacon indicating places of interst as well as providing maps thereof.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 01, 2008, 05:20:57 PM
Or just skip Zelda entirely and develop Tingle as a franchise.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Smoke39 on April 01, 2008, 05:25:25 PM
A hot air balloon map-making franchise. With skydiving as a means of reaching potential purchasers of your maps on the ground.
Awesome.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: stevey on April 01, 2008, 05:27:05 PM
No Malon, horses, or cowgirls of any kind ------> Instant Fail!
Tingle -------> Failɷ
No other redeeming qualities -----> the worst game ever made!
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Smoke39 on April 01, 2008, 05:32:19 PM
I don't know where you get this no Malon business. Naturally she would be Tingle's love interest!
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: ShyGuy on April 01, 2008, 05:38:28 PM
Seriously, the best level design since DE_Dust for Counter Strike.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Adrock on April 01, 2008, 06:14:31 PM
Wind Waker had the best final boss fight in the series.... okay, Ocarina of Time did. WW did, however, have the coolest "death" scene of any Zelda game and that should count for something.
Also, I rank WW's story as one of the best in the series (despite the plotholes) and evidence that Nintendo's storytelling has progressed past simply "save the princess" and "travel to 2 worlds for some reason." Then, Nintendo raped and murdered that progress in Twilight Princess with its weak plot that even an awesome character like Imp Midna couldn't make interesting.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: EasyCure on April 01, 2008, 06:26:52 PM
... how about just adding more to the sailing to make it fun instead of removing it? ...
Sword combat because I really did like that mechanic and how it was done in the game and was done far to little.
or how about both? what if there was a cool sword fighting mechanic while on the boat, for example:
you're sailing when you get boarded by pirates or something.. i dont really feel like thinking, blah. my point is you might not of enjoyed it but some people did, so stop being selfish and compromise!!! do you think this is some sort of forum where you can have an opinion or somethign???
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ian Sane on April 01, 2008, 06:39:41 PM
I like the idea of having to sail somewhere in Zelda. I thought that would make things feel really epic. Since Zelda went 3D the worlds always seemed a little small. To me going back to the Kokiri in Ocarina of Time should be a big deal but walking across the whole world is like walking across Disneyland. Hell in OoT you've even REQUIRED to go back home to learn that song for Darunia. They made out like leaving home was a big deal but you could go back and forth with no effort at all.
Wind Waker's world does feel big and sailing does help that. The only problem is there's not enough land! It's big but it's BORING. If they had a couple significant continents and many small islands everywhere then you would have something. Imagine starting in what appears to be a landlocked Hyrule and then at some point in the game you reach the port and realize there's so much more to see. That would feel epic.
Sadly I think Nintendo interpreted reactions to Wind Waker as fans rejecting new ideas so they played Twilight Princess too safe and the result was that I found that overworld boring as well because I already explored it in Ocarina of Time! And if that's the last of "traditional Zelda" we see that's a damn shame because there's more to work with. Wind Waker's problems are not in concept but in execution. In fact that's often something that game companies get confused by. A new idea doesn't have to get rejected because it's new. It MIGHT be because it just plain sucks. It's like how while I'm fine with new ideas in Mario games but I didn't like the waterpack because it SUCKED.
Hell that's just a lesson in life. It's like when people say "be careful what you wish for" when something you requested turns out like crap. Well obviously whenever someone wishes for something they want it to be done right. One shouldn't have to add "... provided you don't f*ck it up" every time one requests something. I don't tell the waiter "make sure the cook makes my food taste good" when I order dinner in a restaurant.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 01, 2008, 06:42:09 PM
You know what bugged me about Wind Waker? At the end, Ganon says that the oceans offer no fish to catch, but there are fish skeletons in Orca's house. This is a clear contradiction.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 01, 2008, 06:45:28 PM
Orca has yet to eat Jabun.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on April 01, 2008, 07:18:55 PM
They should replace sailing with a hot air balloon, out of which you would sky dive to reach your various destinations.
Naturally, Tingle would be floating around up in the sky as well, serving as both a beacon indicating places of interst as well as providing maps thereof.
... how about just adding more to the sailing to make it fun instead of removing it? ...
Sword combat because I really did like that mechanic and how it was done in the game and was done far to little.
or how about both? what if there was a cool sword fighting mechanic while on the boat, for example:
you're sailing when you get boarded by pirates or something.. i dont really feel like thinking, blah. my point is you might not of enjoyed it but some people did, so stop being selfish and compromise!!! do you think this is some sort of forum where you can have an opinion or somethign???
I be all for on the boat fighting if I wasn't on a little row boat...
I like the idea of having to sail somewhere in Zelda. I thought that would make things feel really epic. Since Zelda went 3D the worlds always seemed a little small. To me going back to the Kokiri in Ocarina of Time should be a big deal but walking across the whole world is like walking across Disneyland. Hell in OoT you've even REQUIRED to go back home to learn that song for Darunia. They made out like leaving home was a big deal but you could go back and forth with no effort at all.
Wind Waker's world does feel big and sailing does help that. The only problem is there's not enough land! It's big but it's BORING. If they had a couple significant continents and many small islands everywhere then you would have something. Imagine starting in what appears to be a landlocked Hyrule and then at some point in the game you reach the port and realize there's so much more to see. That would feel epic.
Sadly I think Nintendo interpreted reactions to Wind Waker as fans rejecting new ideas so they played Twilight Princess too safe and the result was that I found that overworld boring as well because I already explored it in Ocarina of Time! And if that's the last of "traditional Zelda" we see that's a damn shame because there's more to work with. Wind Waker's problems are not in concept but in execution. In fact that's often something that game companies get confused by. A new idea doesn't have to get rejected because it's new. It MIGHT be because it just plain sucks. It's like how while I'm fine with new ideas in Mario games but I didn't like the waterpack because it SUCKED.
Hell that's just a lesson in life. It's like when people say "be careful what you wish for" when something you requested turns out like crap. Well obviously whenever someone wishes for something they want it to be done right. One shouldn't have to add "... provided you don't f*ck it up" every time one requests something. I don't tell the waiter "make sure the cook makes my food taste good" when I order dinner in a restaurant.
Agree. In concept the sailing sounds pretty cool. In Execution the sailing was sort of overpowering. I mean I like salt but, if its the main ingredient its overpowering. Moderation Nintendo everything in Moderation.
You know what bugged me about Wind Waker? At the end, Ganon says that the oceans offer no fish to catch, but there are fish skeletons in Orca's house. This is a clear contradiction.
You know what also bugs me. Having fish people evolve into bird people AFTER the world is flooded so most of it is there original environment. Its like there doing the opposite of what Evolution is suppose to. Making it Harder for them to live then it already was.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 01, 2008, 07:28:23 PM
I believe the Zora were fresh-water creatures that require a riverine environment. Their biology couldn't handle the stagnant salt water environments of Wind Waker's poison seas.
In that case, the springs in the Deku Tree island would be the only place they could survive. But the Deku Tree despises trout, so he sent the Korok to wipeout their race and defend the island from intruders, much in the way the Ewoks would band together and defeat the Empire with rocks and sticks.
Then the Zora said "EFF THIS" and grew wings and flew away.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: EasyCure on April 01, 2008, 07:38:59 PM
They should replace sailing with a hot air balloon, out of which you would sky dive to reach your various destinations.
Naturally, Tingle would be floating around up in the sky as well, serving as both a beacon indicating places of interst as well as providing maps thereof.
... how about just adding more to the sailing to make it fun instead of removing it? ...
Sword combat because I really did like that mechanic and how it was done in the game and was done far to little.
or how about both? what if there was a cool sword fighting mechanic while on the boat, for example:
you're sailing when you get boarded by pirates or something.. i dont really feel like thinking, blah. my point is you might not of enjoyed it but some people did, so stop being selfish and compromise!!! do you think this is some sort of forum where you can have an opinion or somethign???
I be all for on the boat fighting if I wasn't on a little row boat...
well of course. You could have a huge ship like Tetra's and then use a smaller boat the size of the King of Red Lions to reach smaller islands without ports or traverse flooded caverns. The image of Link stabbing his sword downward into the water to kill an oncoming enemy just looks cool to me..
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: mantidor on April 02, 2008, 12:09:18 AM
The only problem with sailing was how cumbersome it was to change the wind's direction, but making it very simple wouldn't have been the solution for me, I really can't think of an idea to fix it but it lies in the middle.
Besides that and the lack of some big chunk of land instead of scattered little islands the game was awesome from beginning to end but also had a lot of untapped potential to be discovered, more mini quests (NOT fetchquests) like Majora's Mask would have made the game perfect. I still hate link's model, I don't know why but it didn't fit well in the world, it was.. too simple, the facial expressions were great and the eye thing was a really neat idea but still from a pure aesthetic point it was bland and empty, the contrast with characters like the rito, Valoo, Ganondorf or just about anyone else was huge. Zelda, not Tetra, suffer a similar flaw but to a much lesser degree.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Smoke39 on April 02, 2008, 01:37:40 AM
The only problem with sailing was how cumbersome it was to change the wind's direction, but making it very simple wouldn't have been the solution for me, I really can't think of an idea to fix it but it lies in the middle.
Use steam power instead of wind power? I'm sure they could come up with an appropriately cutesy little steam ship for Link to cruise around in. With cartoony little puffs of smoke poofing out of the little smoke stack every half second or so it would be adorable. o:
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on April 02, 2008, 08:48:48 AM
The only problem with sailing was how cumbersome it was to change the wind's direction, but making it very simple wouldn't have been the solution for me, I really can't think of an idea to fix it but it lies in the middle.
Use steam power instead of wind power? I'm sure they could come up with an appropriately cutesy little steam ship for Link to cruise around in. With cartoony little puffs of smoke poofing out of the little smoke stack every half second or so it would be adorable. o:
Oh you mean like the Recent DS game? (I still need to play that...)
The only problem with sailing was how cumbersome it was to change the wind's direction, but making it very simple wouldn't have been the solution for me, I really can't think of an idea to fix it but it lies in the middle.
Besides that and the lack of some big chunk of land instead of scattered little islands the game was awesome from beginning to end but also had a lot of untapped potential to be discovered, more mini quests (NOT fetchquests) like Majora's Mask would have made the game perfect. I still hate link's model, I don't know why but it didn't fit well in the world, it was.. too simple, the facial expressions were great and the eye thing was a really neat idea but still from a pure aesthetic point it was bland and empty, the contrast with characters like the rito, Valoo, Ganondorf or just about anyone else was huge. Zelda, not Tetra, suffer a similar flaw but to a much lesser degree.
I agree with most of what you say except; I think that the relative blandness of "Link" is on purpose. I also think it fits his roots.
well of course. You could have a huge ship like Tetra's and then use a smaller boat the size of the King of Red Lions to reach smaller islands without ports or traverse flooded caverns. The image of Link stabbing his sword downward into the water to kill an oncoming enemy just looks cool to me..
Be an interesting dynamic. Especially if the ship was special itself. As it at one point the key part of a larger dungen you must solve.
I believe the Zora were fresh-water creatures that require a riverine environment. Their biology couldn't handle the stagnant salt water environments of Wind Waker's poison seas.
In that case, the springs in the Deku Tree island would be the only place they could survive. But the Deku Tree despises trout, so he sent the Korok to wipeout their race and defend the island from intruders, much in the way the Ewoks would band together and defeat the Empire with rocks and sticks.
Then the Zora said "EFF THIS" and grew wings and flew away.
Ironically enough thats the best explanation I've heard.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on April 02, 2008, 08:53:30 AM
The only problem with sailing was how cumbersome it was to change the wind's direction, but making it very simple wouldn't have been the solution for me, I really can't think of an idea to fix it but it lies in the middle.
Use steam power instead of wind power? I'm sure they could come up with an appropriately cutesy little steam ship for Link to cruise around in. With cartoony little puffs of smoke poofing out of the little smoke stack every half second or so it would be adorable. o:
Oh you mean like the Recent DS game? (I still need to play that...)
The only problem with sailing was how cumbersome it was to change the wind's direction, but making it very simple wouldn't have been the solution for me, I really can't think of an idea to fix it but it lies in the middle.
Besides that and the lack of some big chunk of land instead of scattered little islands the game was awesome from beginning to end but also had a lot of untapped potential to be discovered, more mini quests (NOT fetchquests) like Majora's Mask would have made the game perfect. I still hate link's model, I don't know why but it didn't fit well in the world, it was.. too simple, the facial expressions were great and the eye thing was a really neat idea but still from a pure aesthetic point it was bland and empty, the contrast with characters like the rito, Valoo, Ganondorf or just about anyone else was huge. Zelda, not Tetra, suffer a similar flaw but to a much lesser degree.
I agree with most of what you say except; I think that the relative blandness of "Link" is on purpose. I also think it fits his roots.
well of course. You could have a huge ship like Tetra's and then use a smaller boat the size of the King of Red Lions to reach smaller islands without ports or traverse flooded caverns. The image of Link stabbing his sword downward into the water to kill an oncoming enemy just looks cool to me..
Be an interesting dynamic. Especially if the ship was special itself. As it at one point the key part of a larger dungeon you must solve.
I believe the Zora were fresh-water creatures that require a riverine environment. Their biology couldn't handle the stagnant salt water environments of Wind Waker's poison seas.
In that case, the springs in the Deku Tree island would be the only place they could survive. But the Deku Tree despises trout, so he sent the Korok to wipeout their race and defend the island from intruders, much in the way the Ewoks would band together and defeat the Empire with rocks and sticks.
Then the Zora said "EFF THIS" and grew wings and flew away.
Ironically enough thats the best explanation I've heard.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Smoke39 on April 02, 2008, 11:46:31 AM
The only problem with sailing was how cumbersome it was to change the wind's direction, but making it very simple wouldn't have been the solution for me, I really can't think of an idea to fix it but it lies in the middle.
Use steam power instead of wind power? I'm sure they could come up with an appropriately cutesy little steam ship for Link to cruise around in. With cartoony little puffs of smoke poofing out of the little smoke stack every half second or so it would be adorable. o:
Oh you mean like the Recent DS game? (I still need to play that...)
I don't know; I haven't played it either.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: mantidor on April 02, 2008, 12:38:29 PM
Well the steam boat wasn't "cute" :P but it's pretty much smoke's idea, and it was nice, but I still don't think is the best sailing mechanic ever made. I still want wind to be used, I just don't know how to implement it properly.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: DAaaMan64 on April 02, 2008, 12:40:02 PM
The only problem with sailing was how cumbersome it was to change the wind's direction, but making it very simple wouldn't have been the solution for me, I really can't think of an idea to fix it but it lies in the middle.
Use steam power instead of wind power? I'm sure they could come up with an appropriately cutesy little steam ship for Link to cruise around in. With cartoony little puffs of smoke poofing out of the little smoke stack every half second or so it would be adorable. o:
Oh you mean like the Recent DS game? (I still need to play that...)
I don't know; I haven't played it either.
Yes you use a steam boat in PH. It is pretty nice.
There is too little to do on the ocean. I agree that there should have been some bigger islands in WW. It would have been cool if you could have done some on land exploring OOT style too.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Smoke39 on April 02, 2008, 12:48:32 PM
Well the steam boat wasn't "cute" :P but it's pretty much smoke's idea, and it was nice, but I still don't think is the best sailing mechanic ever made. I still want wind to be used, I just don't know how to implement it properly.
Gee, if only Nintendo would come up with a controller that could determine where on the screen you were aiming. Then all you'd have to do is point in the direction you wanted the wind to blow.
::sigh:: ... if only ...
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Mario on April 02, 2008, 03:16:45 PM
Yeah but only one of their four controllers can do that
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: mantidor on April 02, 2008, 04:44:06 PM
Well the steam boat wasn't "cute" :P but it's pretty much smoke's idea, and it was nice, but I still don't think is the best sailing mechanic ever made. I still want wind to be used, I just don't know how to implement it properly.
Gee, if only Nintendo would come up with a controller that could determine where on the screen you were aiming. Then all you'd have to do is point in the direction you wanted the wind to blow.
::sigh:: ... if only ...
I would like that but I can already see the usual crowd whining about difficulty since it would be easy, but it sounds fun!. The thing is they have to take whats fun about sailing in real life and remove the part thats boring or annoying. Sailing IS epic because of distance, but you have to make the journey fun and engaging, also, real boats can change the direction of movement easier than what we had to do in the Wind Waker, I want that mechanic, whatever it is, to be emulated in a fun way. How do boats manage to get to a port without favorable winds, they just can't? or wind blowing always in the same direction is a rarity and they just have to wait?
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: DAaaMan64 on April 02, 2008, 04:53:56 PM
WEll we can point a Wiimote at the screen now, the cannon was one of the greatest parts of sailing in PH, so they need that in WW. It was fun easy and versatile.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 02, 2008, 05:14:05 PM
Sailing IS epic because of distance, but you have to make the journey fun and engaging, also, real boats can change the direction of movement easier than what we had to do in the Wind Waker, I want that mechanic, whatever it is, to be emulated in a fun way. How do boats manage to get to a port without favorable winds, they just can't? or wind blowing always in the same direction is a rarity and they just have to wait?
Like this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing#Sailing_upwind) I did that a lot in Wind Waker because it was slightly less annoying than whipping out the wand, even though it took longer. See also points of sail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points_of_sail). I found that the King of Red Lions was faster in broad reach than running. This is realistic, but counterintuitive, so I wonder how many people noticed, assuming it wasn't all in my imagination.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 02, 2008, 06:14:18 PM
The only problem with sailing was how cumbersome it was to change the wind's direction, but making it very simple wouldn't have been the solution for me, I really can't think of an idea to fix it but it lies in the middle.
Use steam power instead of wind power?
Steampunk Zelda. Is this awesome? Y/Y
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on April 02, 2008, 06:23:33 PM
The only problem with sailing was how cumbersome it was to change the wind's direction, but making it very simple wouldn't have been the solution for me, I really can't think of an idea to fix it but it lies in the middle.
Use steam power instead of wind power?
But wouldn't it then be Metroid? Steampunk Zelda. Is this awesome? Y/Y
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Smoke39 on April 02, 2008, 08:20:12 PM
Nothing about Metroid is steampunk. Except maybe that stupid Chozo platform in the sky that Retro made up in MP3.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on April 03, 2008, 08:22:58 AM
After the first dungeon, Windwaker went downhill fast.
Snowballing rapidly down into a pit full of awesome?
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on April 03, 2008, 08:06:24 PM
I went back to my save. I hadn't realized its been about 2.5 years since I played it, please note that I started this save when it was launched... If I would have just stuck it out a little more it seems the triforce guest has fighting.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Sundoulos on April 09, 2008, 04:22:56 PM
After the first dungeon, Windwaker went downhill fast.
I dunno. Wind Waker still had it's charming moments. Things I remember enjoying: 1. The Tower of the gods - I loved the rising and falling water levels. Not new to the series, but it was well-done. 2. Prominence of the King of Hyrule and Zelda. Zelda plays much more prominently WW than in the other games. My biggest disappointment with TP was the lack of Zelda; we saw much more character from in WW. 3. Strong narrative ties with OoT, and the nods to events that happened in the previous game. I think Wind Waker made much more sense in context with OoT and LttP. TP was a great game, but it just muddied the waters plot-wise; it's almost as if it was in an alternate universe...Ultimate Zelda or something. 4. Ominous feel of the game during the search for Jabun. Unfortunately the encounter is short, and there's no dungeon involved, but at least you didn't have to travel through his digestive tract this time. 5. Valoo's torching of the watch tower on the Forsaken Fortress. 6. Brief glimpses of Old Hyrule and Hyrule Castle. 7. Final fight with Ganon.
Wind Waker did go downhill, but I don't think it did so until the very end when you realize that they only had six real dungeons counting the repeated visits to the Forbidden Isle as one. I think that's the right count, but my memory may be a bit fuzzy. By the end, I was left feeling as if I had only played 2/3 of a Zelda game. The Triforce quest was a little lame and anticlimatic; I expected the Triforce pieces to be harder to obtain.
This probably belongs in the other Zelda thread, but the biggest problems I did have with Wind Waker didn't change in Twilight Princess. Much of the time, I heard that Ganon (and Zant) were really evil, but aside from a few events, I didn't really sense an ominous threat. Most of the time, in both games, it always felt as if the stakes were being lowered as the game progressed. In Twilight Princess, you consistenly beat back the Twilight, and you really see little to no reaction from the forces of evil. In Wind Waker, aside from kidnapping of Aryll, the destruction of the Great Fish Isle, and ominous storm that occurs when you search for Jabun, the player isn't shown why Ganon is so dangerous or considered to be so evil. In contrast, in OoT, there was a certain shock value to seeing how 7 years of Ganon's dominion had affected Hyrule.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: animecyberrat on April 09, 2008, 05:11:41 PM
I never even got that far. I got stuck on that stupid island where you're supposed to escape from the dungeon and fight with a stick and lost interest and never went back. I really wanted to go back and give it another shot but it was too late I had traded my game to GS.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Sundoulos on April 09, 2008, 05:40:02 PM
I never even got that far. I got stuck on that stupid island where you're supposed to escape from the dungeon and fight with a stick and lost interest and never went back. I really wanted to go back and give it another shot but it was too late I had traded my game to GS.
Yeah, it's too bad. A year or two ago, you could get it on-line for $10 - 15. Now it's getting a little higher now that its hard to find. I'm still kicking myself for selling my copy of the Twin Snakes. Now I can't find it for less than $30; people are actually charging from $50 on amazon for used copies, $150 - $200 for new. I can't imagine who would pay that kind of money, though.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ian Sane on April 09, 2008, 07:17:26 PM
Quote
Yeah, it's too bad. A year or two ago, you could get it on-line for $10 - 15. Now it's getting a little higher now that its hard to find. I'm still kicking myself for selling my copy of the Twin Snakes. Now I can't find it for less than $30; people are actually charging from $50 on amazon for used copies, $150 - $200 for new. I can't imagine who would pay that kind of money, though.
The Gamecube is the new Saturn. It's like an ironic reward for loyalty. My formally run-of-the-mill game collection of an unpopular console is now full of valuable collector's items. Who guessed my copy of Pikmin 2 would become a highly sought after hardcore gamer status symbol?
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on April 09, 2008, 08:42:19 PM
After the first dungeon, Windwaker went downhill fast.
I dunno. Wind Waker still had it's charming moments. Things I remember enjoying: 1. The Tower of the gods - I loved the rising and falling water levels. Not new to the series, but it was well-done. 2. Prominence of the King of Hyrule and Zelda. Zelda plays much more prominently WW than in the other games. My biggest disappointment with TP was the lack of Zelda; we saw much more character from in WW. 3. Strong narrative ties with OoT, and the nods to events that happened in the previous game. I think Wind Waker made much more sense in context with OoT and LttP. TP was a great game, but it just muddied the waters plot-wise; it's almost as if it was in an alternate universe...Ultimate Zelda or something. 4. Ominous feel of the game during the search for Jabun. Unfortunately the encounter is short, and there's no dungeon involved, but at least you didn't have to travel through his digestive tract this time. 5. Valoo's torching of the watch tower on the Forsaken Fortress. 6. Brief glimpses of Old Hyrule and Hyrule Castle. 7. Final fight with Ganon.
Wind Waker did go downhill, but I don't think it did so until the very end when you realize that they only had six real dungeons counting the repeated visits to the Forbidden Isle as one. I think that's the right count, but my memory may be a bit fuzzy. By the end, I was left feeling as if I had only played 2/3 of a Zelda game. The Triforce quest was a little lame and anticlimatic; I expected the Triforce pieces to be harder to obtain.
This probably belongs in the other Zelda thread, but the biggest problems I did have with Wind Waker didn't change in Twilight Princess. Much of the time, I heard that Ganon (and Zant) were really evil, but aside from a few events, I didn't really sense an ominous threat. Most of the time, in both games, it always felt as if the stakes were being lowered as the game progressed. In Twilight Princess, you consistenly beat back the Twilight, and you really see little to no reaction from the forces of evil. In Wind Waker, aside from kidnapping of Aryll, the destruction of the Great Fish Isle, and ominous storm that occurs when you search for Jabun, the player isn't shown why Ganon is so dangerous or considered to be so evil. In contrast, in OoT, there was a certain shock value to seeing how 7 years of Ganon's dominion had affected Hyrule.
I agree with the TP remarks. Once I got to the point where I saved the original love interest and the evil was contained in the castle, I no longer cared. The evil wasn't hearing anyone at that point so, I was just not motivated to beat it. If it wasn't for people picking on me here I may not have beaten the game. Though the wild west part was good...
Thinking back that is true about all the Zelda games. Evil does its worst and you sort of just push it back.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Kenology on April 09, 2008, 09:30:10 PM
After my first Wind Waker playthrough left me a bit disappointed for a few reasons even though it was a great game:
- Not enough land - The game was WAY too easy (too much hand-holding, no devilish puzzles, cakewalk combat cause enemies take no damage, etc.) - Denegration of Ganondorf (this little tyke gets to wield the same Master Sword that the Hero of Time had to age seven years for? I maintain that Toon Link is just not worthy of facing the great Ganondorf.)
However, after my second playthrough last summer - I enjoyed the game SOOOOOO much more than I did the first go 'round. I knew what to expect and I accepted everything for what it was... and I enjoyed every minute of it.
Wind Waker didn't give me that instant gratification I've come to expect from the Zelda series, but it took a second playthrough to grow on me.
Now gimme a Twilight Princess style Zelda with:
- tough enemies (because I like to have the fear of dying and actually use my fairies and red potions) - tough puzzles (I love being stuck on a perplexing mind-bender - it makes the excitement of finally solving it all the more sweeter)
I'll be happy with those two. I'ma Zelda masochist, give me a challenge, please.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Sundoulos on April 09, 2008, 10:07:16 PM
Thinking back that is true about all the Zelda games. Evil does its worst and you sort of just push it back.
I concur with this. It's just that the last few games have made it glaringly obvious. That's probably because of the shifting standards of gamers as well. Many other games have raised the bar. For the most part, Nintendo's storytelling just hasn't kept in stride with the times, sadly. I say that as a dyed-in-the-wool lifetime Nintendo fan.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 09, 2008, 10:51:28 PM
Denegration of Ganondorf (this little tyke gets to wield the same Master Sword that the Hero of Time had to age seven years for? I maintain that Toon Link is just not worthy of facing the great Ganondorf.)
And I maintain that you just have a bias against Wind Waker, and that that isn't even remotely a valid complaint.
SPOILERS: All the Links except the one in OoT and the one in TP were kids.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: NWR_pap64 on April 09, 2008, 11:08:10 PM
I confess that I thought Wind Waker was a good game, but hardly the best in the series.
To me, the first hours of the game were the best. Meeting Tetra, the Red King, trying to defeat the bird that kidnapped the girls, finding out Tetra's secret, going to the flooded Hyrule frozen in time, meeting the King of Hyrule, going to Dragoon Roost Island for the first time, these were perhaps the best moments in the entire game.
Afterwards, the game got boring and tedious, and showed the creators were pressed for time and rushed through the final arc. I mean, you only go to two of the seven dungeons based on the sages, the triforce collecting got VERY tedious and it just wasn't that fun.
Even the final battle with Ganondorf seemed rushed. I was expecting a multiple battle finale where it would take a lot of hits in order for Ganondorf to be defeated. Even if the final attack was cool as all hell I felt disappointed.
As easy as the Ganondorf battle was in Twilight Princess it delivered in terms of epic-ness and drama.
So yeah, WW was a good game but to me it could have been more.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 10, 2008, 02:34:13 AM
"As easy as the Ganondorf battle was in Twilight Princess it delivered in terms of epic-ness and drama."
WRONG. WRONG.
Pushovers are not epic. Especially a waste of time like the Puppet Zelda encounter.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: DAaaMan64 on April 10, 2008, 02:50:52 AM
"As easy as the Ganondorf battle was in Twilight Princess it delivered in terms of epic-ness and drama."
WRONG. WRONG.
Pushovers are not epic. Especially a waste of time like the Puppet Zelda encounter.
That final battle with Ganondorf on the field was not epic at all, I wasn't feeling his powers in anyway. We were just out in a field :/ I was extremely underwhelmed with that battle.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: mantidor on April 10, 2008, 11:10:22 AM
Wind Waker final battle obviously WINS against TP final battle(s) in term of epicness, and for the first and probably only time Zelda doesn't stand there like an idiot watching the big boys fight.
However TP had its moments, no one can deny that, but that fight surrounded by falling waterfalls is hard to top.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Kenology on April 10, 2008, 11:49:43 AM
Denegration of Ganondorf (this little tyke gets to wield the same Master Sword that the Hero of Time had to age seven years for? I maintain that Toon Link is just not worthy of facing the great Ganondorf.)
And I maintain that you just have a bias against Wind Waker, and that that isn't even remotely a valid complaint.
Not at all, I love Wind Waker. And my point is more than valid! Don't be angry though, it's not that serious!
"As easy as the Ganondorf battle was in Twilight Princess it delivered in terms of epic-ness and drama."
WRONG. WRONG.
Pushovers are not epic. Especially a waste of time like the Puppet Zelda encounter.
That's true. But both Wind Waker Ganondorf and Twilight Princess Ganondorf were pushovers. I think the Twilight Princess final battle was more epic - better music, better aesthetic, one-on-one (no Zelda) = more epic. Wind Waker did have the better final boss fight setting though.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on April 10, 2008, 02:36:43 PM
On the Master Sword. I think that all Links after the first got it to easy and it wasn't very uber like in the First game.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Adrock on April 10, 2008, 07:21:39 PM
Both Ganondorf encounters in WW and TP were easy because he has 3 moves and one of them blocks/counters every attack. All you need is patience and you win. That's not epic at all. Still, WW's final boss fight was just cooler, despite its lack of epic-ness. I liked how Zelda helped Link, about f-ing time, that lazy ho. Seriously, in OoT and TP, she just stands there. All that magic and the only thing Ganondorf has to do to completely nullify Zelda is put up some kind of barrier. Why doesn't he just put small barriers around both Link and Zelda and wait for them to starve or for one to eat the other then starve?
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: animecyberrat on April 10, 2008, 07:43:19 PM
On the Master Sword. I think that all Links after the first got it to easy and it wasn't very uber like in the First game.
ALTTP didn't give it to you right away and actually made you feel like you had earned it a bit. But I agree that once getting it there wasn't that much of a difference and then you still had to get two more upgrades anyways. The Master Sword should have been *THE* Sword like they made it out to be, instead they made you feel like it was this important thing to have but once you get it, it's not good enough.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: EasyCure on April 10, 2008, 08:19:21 PM
on the topic of master swords. i geeked out and bought a replica of it w/ the TP style scabbard and a Hylian Sheild..
:)
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Kenology on April 10, 2008, 08:23:58 PM
I like how you could "level up" the Master Sword in ALttP. You could have it tempered (level 3), then have the fat Great Fairy bless it and make it golden (level 4). I think they should let you either collect sword in mass, or upgrade your Master Sword (or whatever non-Master Sword you'd have in a non-Hyrule Zelda) at least 10 times... but then you'd have to maybe have some kind of stat tracking on enemies where they get tougher or what not.
I haven't totally thought this through... but I think it'd be cool to do this.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: EasyCure on April 10, 2008, 08:31:21 PM
I like how you could "level up" the Master Sword in ALttP. You could have it tempered (level 3), then have the fat Great Fairy bless it and make it golden (level 4). I think they should let you either collect sword in mass, or upgrade your Master Sword (or whatever non-Master Sword you'd have in a non-Hyrule Zelda) at least 10 times... but then you'd have to maybe have some kind of stat tracking on enemies where they get tougher or what not.
I haven't totally thought this through... but I think it'd be cool to do this.
i sort of wish they'd bring back the Beam Attack (minus the annoying sound). I remember seeing Beta screens for OoT where Link seemed to be performing it.
A friend argued with me that it was the beginning of a spin attack most likely, but they had two pictures; One with a blue swirl surrounding Link and one with a red/brown-ish.. uh.. well arrow-like beam that looked like it was moving away from him. I was sad when it wasnt in the final game
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Kenology on April 10, 2008, 10:40:11 PM
I would get hit on purpose whenever I had full life in ALttP just to get rid of the beam - I couldn't stand it. For some reason, I didn't mind it in Zelda 1... probably because staying away from enemies and attacking from afar would prolong life in a game where enemies took 5 to 6 hearts. I didn't mind Oni Link's beam attack either.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: EasyCure on April 11, 2008, 10:05:40 AM
I just wouldnt use the sword in areas with two few enemies to make good use of it, otherwise the sound effect would drive me nuts. The only times i liked using it were small rooms with many enemies in conjunction with the boomerang. I'd keep anyone in front of me at bay with the beam and the boomerang would help me fend of approaching enemies from other directions
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: animecyberrat on April 11, 2008, 11:13:02 AM
I liked the sound so it didn't bother me.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on May 28, 2011, 06:03:14 PM
Oh my lord I'm going back and playing Wind Waker and the game Froze on me after spending about an hour on the Forsaken Forest. I had beaten the Boss of it and It just sat their in the cutscene mode spinning the heart by the Makar...
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: UncleBob on May 28, 2011, 06:53:23 PM
How odd. I started playing through Wind Waker again as well. I just got the third Pearl and I'm on my way to place them now. No freezing on me though...
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on May 28, 2011, 06:59:28 PM
How odd. I started playing through Wind Waker again as well. I just got the third Pearl and I'm on my way to place them now. No freezing on me though...
It was frustrating. I'm going to clean my disc. I probably be with you but I got sidetracked because of my copy of GCN Jungle Beat I just got.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: UncleBob on May 28, 2011, 07:11:48 PM
You'll probably beat me. I'm just playing a little bit each day. Dungeon one day, side quests and goofing around the next. No really hurry to beat it - in fact, I may not even finish again. As much as I love Zelda games, I just don't have the time/patience to replay them too often. Except for Link's Awakening. And, of course, re-releases... I play those. :D
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on May 28, 2011, 07:15:39 PM
I've never beaten Wind Waker. I always get to the point where you have to find the Pieces of the Triforce and well, I get sooo Fed up that I end up never finishing. Thats with a map where they all are before, I don't know where that map is now...
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Adrock on May 29, 2011, 01:58:58 AM
Hey, look, it's the Zelda game that begged to be ported twice and didn't. Considering how often Nintendo ports games, I'm still surprised this has yet to make the cut. Wind Waker is still gorgeous even by today's standards and as cool as it'd be to see it playing on a handheld and in 3D to boot, I really wished this game was included in the "New Play Control" series, even if it required MotionPlus to accurately track the Wind Waker baton movements.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on May 29, 2011, 09:08:58 AM
Hey, look, it's the Zelda game that begged to be ported twice and didn't. Considering how often Nintendo ports games, I'm still surprised this has yet to make the cut. Wind Waker is still gorgeous even by today's standards and as cool as it'd be to see it playing on a handheld and in 3D to boot, I really wished this game was included in the "New Play Control" series, even if it required MotionPlus to accurately track the Wind Waker baton movements.
I was thinking about that. With all the pointing style things you do earlier in the game its almost begging for the Wii Controls.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: UncleBob on May 29, 2011, 02:54:21 PM
Quasi-spoilers...
So, we're told that Ocarina of Time splits us off into two different timelines - one that leads directly into Majora's Mask and one that eventually gives us Wind Waker. However, inside of the Tower of the Gods, when using the Tingle Tuner, you get pages of "The Legend" - which tells us about Tingle and his dealings with Link in Majora's Mask.
If Majora's Mask and Wind Waker don't exist in the same timeline/universe, how could these pages exist?
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: UncleBob on May 29, 2011, 04:53:18 PM
Man, the best way to kill a Darkknightnut is to knock his armor off, disarm him, then pick up his own sword and just chuck it at his head until he dies.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Ceric on May 29, 2011, 08:50:32 PM
Man, the best way to kill a Darkknightnut is to knock his armor off, disarm him, then pick up his own sword and just chuck it at his head until he dies.
I was sad when TP didn't allow you to use the fallen's weapons. I find it funny that the piranha plants(I forget therir Zelda Name) die in one hit if you use the stick from a previous destroyed one on them.
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: UncleBob on June 04, 2011, 04:29:33 PM
Well, just finished the game again. Didn't think I'd have the patience, but whadda know?
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: nickmitch on June 04, 2011, 07:45:02 PM
So, we're told that Ocarina of Time splits us off into two different timelines - one that leads directly into Majora's Mask and one that eventually gives us Wind Waker. However, inside of the Tower of the Gods, when using the Tingle Tuner, you get pages of "The Legend" - which tells us about Tingle and his dealings with Link in Majora's Mask.
If Majora's Mask and Wind Waker don't exist in the same timeline/universe, how could these pages exist?
Easy: The split timeline theory is baloney.:P
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: Caterkiller on June 04, 2011, 08:04:27 PM
Man, the best way to kill a Darkknightnut is to knock his armor off, disarm him, then pick up his own sword and just chuck it at his head until he dies.
I was sad when TP didn't allow you to use the fallen's weapons. I find it funny that the piranha plants(I forget therir Zelda Name) die in one hit if you use the stick from a previous destroyed one on them.
Not only could we not use enemy weapons, the enemies didn't react to different weapons like in WW. Remember you could pull out a bomb and the moblins would make a break for it? That was awesome!!!! That was realistic!
Title: Re: Wind Waker
Post by: FZeroBoyo on June 05, 2011, 12:36:25 AM
Yup. Nintendo needs to put in enemy AI like that again.
Heck, they should use the Wind Waker style for a console game again. :P:
