Cancel your cable TV and get health insurance instead.
Yes, because health insurance costs $13 a month.
I think its far easier to say things like that than to think that maybe people aren't spending frivolously and still can't afford certain things in life.
Maybe I'll stop driving and walk 5 miles to the grocery store every week. Then I won't be spending so much gas money... My kids will love that.
Title: The Great NWR Healthcare Debate
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 14, 2008, 01:13:51 PM
Cancel your cable TV and get health insurance instead.
Yes, because health insurance costs $13 a month.
I think its far easier to say things like that than to think that maybe people aren't spending frivolously and still can't afford certain things in life.
Maybe I'll stop driving and walk 5 miles to the grocery store every week. Then I won't be spending so much gas money... My kids will love that.
I can't speak for ShyGuy, but I can say that both health care systems are not the way to go. We should have just kept the government out of health care entirely. But we didn't, and thats why we have a problem now, and why we are considering such extreme solutions. Free markets work. (No I'm not talking about NAFTA's free market)
Free health care used to be available. From church's and general charity. Localization provides for this, when government meddled and regulated prices went up, taxes went up, and community development slowed and ultimately stalled. More government sucks.
Title: The Great NWR Healthcare Debate
Post by: Svevan on March 14, 2008, 02:05:43 PM
Cancel your cable TV and get health insurance instead.
Yes, because health insurance costs $13 a month.
I think its far easier to say things like that than to think that maybe people aren't spending frivolously and still can't afford certain things in life.
Maybe I'll stop driving and walk 5 miles to the grocery store every week. Then I won't be spending so much gas money... My kids will love that.
I can't speak for ShyGuy, but I can say that both health care systems are not the way to go. We should have just kept the government out of health care entirely. But we didn't, and thats why we have a problem now, and why we are considering such extreme solutions. Free markets work. (No I'm not talking about NAFTA's free market)
Free health care used to be available. From church's and general charity. Localization provides for this, when government meddled and regulated prices went up, taxes went up, and community development slowed and ultimately stalled. More government sucks.
This is a very limited view. Insurance had a lot to do with the current situation, as did "free market" business causing doctors to prescribe things that aren't exactly necessary (if a doctor has an MRI machine they will prescribe MRIs 500% more than doctors who don't have them, etc). There are a LOT of reasons why health insurance and healthcare costs are a big deal right now, (and this is hardly the thread to get into it).
Title: The Great NWR Healthcare Debate
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 14, 2008, 02:52:29 PM
Cancel your cable TV and get health insurance instead.
Yes, because health insurance costs $13 a month.
I think its far easier to say things like that than to think that maybe people aren't spending frivolously and still can't afford certain things in life.
Maybe I'll stop driving and walk 5 miles to the grocery store every week. Then I won't be spending so much gas money... My kids will love that.
I can't speak for ShyGuy, but I can say that both health care systems are not the way to go. We should have just kept the government out of health care entirely. But we didn't, and thats why we have a problem now, and why we are considering such extreme solutions. Free markets work. (No I'm not talking about NAFTA's free market)
Free health care used to be available. From church's and general charity. Localization provides for this, when government meddled and regulated prices went up, taxes went up, and community development slowed and ultimately stalled. More government sucks.
This is a very limited view. Insurance had a lot to do with the current situation, as did "free market" business causing doctors to prescribe things that aren't exactly necessary (if a doctor has an MRI machine they will prescribe MRIs 500% more than doctors who don't have them, etc). There are a LOT of reasons why health insurance and healthcare costs are a big deal right now, (and this is hardly the thread to get into it).
Hey then move it out, you started it.
If doctor's had a business that they wanted to remain competitive with current pricing, they wouldn't prescribe unnecessary treatments. MRIs are expensive, not giving them cuts cost. Health insurance has the same problem, they can't make things less expensive because they are forced by government to do things one way. It's like having someone who isn't in your business, telling you how to do it. Regulations raise prices. Can you explain better what you mean about insurance? I'm not sure. Laws are important, but regulating stuff that the market would take care of with time, but ultimately do a better job of, would be better. So often, things that the government tries to get involved, produces the exact opposite of what it was trying to do. See FEMA.
You also have to look at the failures with socialist health care. Time spent getting the treatment you need, i.e. paper work, bureaucracy, and regulation. Throwing competitiveness out the window, raises prices for the government, which turns to raises taxes, AND it slows research if there is no market to compete with. Finding new ways to heal people and lower prices should be a high priority. Also realize, that you lose freedom of choice. No longer can people choose alternative health services, such as holistic medicine. People have little control over who their doctor will be, and once again we have undermined the doctor patient relationship. How nice of the government to tell me whats best for me. Ultimately know, that in order to afford this we'll have to inflate the dollar and borrow more money, what does this do? It creates economic conditions that ultimately hurt the poor. Also health care is not a right, rights are something you get because it doesn't impose on others to get it, socialized health care imposes on others. It'd be like the right to a job.
And please do us all a favor and don't call people's views "limited"
Title: The Great NWR Healthcare Debate
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 14, 2008, 03:27:28 PM
::whistles and walks away:: Just make sure you guys clean up the place after the war ends.
Title: The Great NWR Healthcare Debate
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 14, 2008, 03:29:34 PM
Who's at war? I'm just feeding a troll. It's the funhause. Although, getting back on topic wouldn't be terrible, I am official fueling a hijack.
Title: The Great NWR Healthcare Debate
Post by: Nick DiMola on March 14, 2008, 03:36:13 PM
Cancel your cable TV and get health insurance instead.
Yes, because health insurance costs $13 a month.
I think its far easier to say things like that than to think that maybe people aren't spending frivolously and still can't afford certain things in life.
Maybe I'll stop driving and walk 5 miles to the grocery store every week. Then I won't be spending so much gas money... My kids will love that.
I can't speak for ShyGuy, but I can say that both health care systems are not the way to go. We should have just kept the government out of health care entirely. But we didn't, and thats why we have a problem now, and why we are considering such extreme solutions. Free markets work. (No I'm not talking about NAFTA's free market)
Free health care used to be available. From church's and general charity. Localization provides for this, when government meddled and regulated prices went up, taxes went up, and community development slowed and ultimately stalled. More government sucks.
This is a very limited view. Insurance had a lot to do with the current situation, as did "free market" business causing doctors to prescribe things that aren't exactly necessary (if a doctor has an MRI machine they will prescribe MRIs 500% more than doctors who don't have them, etc). There are a LOT of reasons why health insurance and healthcare costs are a big deal right now, (and this is hardly the thread to get into it).
Hey then move it out, you started it.
If doctor's had a business that they wanted to remain competitive with current pricing, they wouldn't prescribe unnecessary treatments. MRIs are expensive, not giving them cuts cost. Health insurance has the same problem, they can't make things less expensive because they are forced by government to do things one way. It's like having someone who isn't in your business, telling you how to do it. Regulations raise prices. Can you explain better what you mean about insurance? I'm not sure. Laws are important, but regulating stuff that the market would take care of with time, but ultimately do a better job of, would be better. So often, things that the government tries to get involved, produces the exact opposite of what it was trying to do. See FEMA.
You also have to look at the failures with socialist health care. Time spent getting the treatment you need, i.e. paper work, bureaucracy, and regulation. Throwing competitiveness out the window, raises prices for the government, which turns to raises taxes, AND it slows research if there is no market to compete with. Finding new ways to heal people and lower prices should be a high priority. Also realize, that you lose freedom of choice. No longer can people choose alternative health services, such as holistic medicine. People have little control over who their doctor will be, and once again we have undermined the doctor patient relationship. How nice of the government to tell me whats best for me. Ultimately know, that in order to afford this we'll have to inflate the dollar and borrow more money, what does this do? It creates economic conditions that ultimately hurt the poor. Also health care is not a right, rights are something you get because it doesn't impose on others to get it, socialized health care imposes on others. It'd be like the right to a job.
And please do us all a favor and don't call people's views "limited"
all I meant by limited was that it did not cover all the many variables that go into this complex topic
discussion got too serious, walking away
edit: Pale locked, so I moved these posts to a new thread to leave Ceric's intact, as per DAaaMan's request.
