Post by: theaveng on March 31, 2003, 03:49:59 AM
Original Metroid
Super Metroid
Is that correct, storywise? Where does Metroid Fusion fit?
Post by: Darc Requiem on March 31, 2003, 04:14:17 AM
Darc Requiem
Post by: mouse_clicker on March 31, 2003, 10:39:37 AM
Metroid Prime
Metroid II: The Return of Samus
Super Metroid
Metroid Fusion
That is the proper chronology for Metroid games.
Post by: BlkPaladin on March 31, 2003, 05:02:14 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 31, 2003, 05:11:12 PM
Post by: Gibdo Master on March 31, 2003, 06:29:10 PM
This is the order they go in:
Metroid
Metroid Prime
Metroid II: The Return of Samus
Super Metroid (Metroid 3)
Metroid Fusion (Metroid 4)
If anyone would have bothered to scan the computers in Metroid Prime it would have been made clear to them that the game takes place directly after Metroid. Just reading the manual alone should have told you that much. It talks about what happened on Zebes during Metroid and how that follows directly into the events of Metroid Prime.
Also for those of you wondering if you watch the in game intro for Super Metroid it says, "1994-Nintendo-Presents-Metroid 3". That's why in the in game intro for Metroid Fusion it is called Metroid 4 since it is a direct sequel to Super Metroid (Metroid 3). They couldn't have called Metroid Fusion Metroid 5 since the games would have went from Metroid 3 to Metroid 5.
And BlkPaladin I hope that was a joke because you apparently don't know what you are talking about. There is no way Metroid Prime could have taken place between Metroid II and Super Metroid since those to games are direct sequels to each other and putting a game inbetween them would screw up the storyline majorly.
Post by: Giolon on March 31, 2003, 11:17:17 PM
Metroid
Metroid Prime
Metroid II: Return of Samus
Super Metroid
Metroid Fusion
I can't wait for Metroid Prime 2!!
Post by: ruby_onix on April 01, 2003, 12:43:56 AM
Metroid - A survey team discovers the Metroids, but Space Pirates steal the Metroids for use as bio-weapons, so Samus Aran (a bounty hunter) is brought in to track the Pirates to their base on Zebes, eliminate the base, eliminate the Metroids, and eliminate the Space Pirates (and Mother Brain, their leader).
Metroid 2: The Return of Samus - Samus is sent to the planet SR-388 to wipe out the Metroids. Ends up not killing "the last of the Metroids" a newly-hatched baby that seemed to think Samus was it's mother.
Metroid 3: Super Metroid - Samus gives up her baby/pet Metroid to some scientists for reasearch. The revived/rebuilt/twin-brother/clone Ridley steals the Hatchling, and runs off to a newly-rebuilt base on Zebes. Everything dies (except for a few weird animal-critters who know how to fly their own spaceship), and Samus even blows up the planet Zebes for good measure.
Metroid 4: Metroid Fusion - As a result of the massive ecosystem damage Samus unleashed on SR-388 by wiping out the Metroids, a parasitic form of energy dubbed "X" (which used to be simple food for the energy-absorbing Metroids) is unleashed. It can corrupt the living and re-animate the dead, just for starters. Samus and her semi-organic Power Suit are corrupted, but saved thanks to some of the Hatchling's DNA, and turned into a sort of X-absorbing Metroid/Human/Chozo hybrid.
Metroid Prime - Shoehorned somewhere in-between Metroid and Metroid 3. Space Pirates attack a space station, leading Samus to learn of, and bust up, another Space Pirate base on Tallon IV (which apparently isn't Zebes, even though they share some of the same area names, like Brinstar and Norfair). I think it's technically supposed fit in before Metroid 2, but I don't think it really matters. Samus supposedly learns of the rebuilt Zebes base in this one (I don't remember everything I visor-scanned), but that doesn't explain why she didn't do anything about them until after the Hatchling was kidnapped in Metroid 3, or why anyone thought wiping out the (planet-bound) Metroids on SR-388 would do any good, when she found plenty of evidence in Metroid Prime that the Space Pirates weren't wiped out, and that they still had plenty of Metroid test subjects remaining, presumably at secret bases all over the galaxy. Or why she thought the Hatchling was "the last Metriod". Of course, Samus is a bounty hunter, and does things when she's paid to do them. And she gets her orders from politicians, who aren't always that bright, especially in works of fiction. IMO, that "last Metriod" bit is just a plot hole coming from the shoehorning of this game into the timeline. But it wouldn't be there if Metroid Prime took place after Metroid 2.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 01, 2003, 02:35:11 AM
Post by: FFantasyFX on April 01, 2003, 03:04:09 AM
Post by: Rogue on April 01, 2003, 03:47:59 AM
One thing, though...
Quote
Metroid Prime - Shoehorned somewhere in-between Metroid and Metroid 3. Space Pirates attack a space station, leading Samus to learn of, and bust up, another Space Pirate base on Tallon IV (which apparently isn't Zebes, even though they share some of the same area names, like Brinstar and Norfair). I think it's technically supposed fit in before Metroid 2, but I don't think it really matters. Samus supposedly learns of the rebuilt Zebes base in this one (I don't remember everything I visor-scanned), but that doesn't explain why she didn't do anything about them until after the Hatchling was kidnapped in Metroid 3, or why anyone thought wiping out the (planet-bound) Metroids on SR-388 would do any good, when she found plenty of evidence in Metroid Prime that the Space Pirates weren't wiped out, and that they still had plenty of Metroid test subjects remaining, presumably at secret bases all over the galaxy. Or why she thought the Hatchling was "the last Metriod". Of course, Samus is a bounty hunter, and does things when she's paid to do them. And she gets her orders from politicians, who aren't always that bright, especially in works of fiction. IMO, that "last Metriod" bit is just a plot hole coming from the shoehorning of this game into the timeline. But it wouldn't be there if Metroid Prime took place after Metroid 2.
There was no Norfair or Brinstar on Talon IV. They had similar areas, though. And yeah, Metroid Prime fits in between Metroid and Metroid 2. Super Metroid comes pretty much immediately after Metroid 2, so there wouldn't be much room for another game in between.
Post by: theaveng on April 01, 2003, 06:21:50 AM
Post by: theaveng on April 01, 2003, 06:21:51 AM
Post by: theaveng on April 01, 2003, 06:21:52 AM
- Sounds like Metroid Prime is a "sidequest" that doesn't really fit into a specific spot. Obviously it has to happen before the Metroids become extinct, but the exact time is uncertain. This is similar to the Zelda games Oracle of Ages/Seasons.
- If a game doesn't have a number in the title, you shouldn't use it IMHO. It's Zelda: A Link to the Past not Zelda 3. It's Metroid Fusion not Metroid 4 (or 5).
Post by: Gehin on April 01, 2003, 09:50:48 AM
and for the number discussion, all metroids except prime use numbers in the game, if not in the title. observe, actual screenshots from super metroid and metroid fusion, taken by me not two minutes ago. (and yes, I registered just for this. heh.)
super metroid : www.gehin.net/stuff/metroid3.jpg
metroid fusion : www.gehin.net/stuff/metroid4.jpg
Post by: ruby_onix on April 01, 2003, 11:43:42 AM
You're right... I don't know how that got into my head. I think I was drooling over the graphics a bit too much while playing Metroid Prime.
Anyways, I started up Super Metroid earlier, and I think it rules out the possibility of Metroid Prime happening before Metroid 2. But doesn't rule it out from happening after Metroid 2.
It opens with (presumably) Samus saying "The last Metroid is in captivity. The galaxy is at peace."
They don't say when that was said, but that can only be said sometime after Metroid 2, and I don't see how anyone could say that after Metroid Prime. But, on to another point.
Next we get to read some sort of computer log written by Samus, and it says (not an exact quote) "I first fought Metroids on the planet Zebes, where I beat up a bunch of Space Pirates. I next fought them on their homeword, SR-388," (with no mention of Tallon IV) where I wiped them all out except for one larva which decided to follow me around like a confused child."
Now she wouldn't have to mention Metroid Prime at this point, because she introduced the hatchling, which is what she's obviously talking about in this log, not her battle record.
"I brought the Metroid to the Galactic Federation Research Station 'Ceres' so scientists could study it" (note that she doesn't say "immediately" or anything like that) "and hadn't gotten out past the asteriod belt before I heard a distress call from Ceres and turned back."
I'm speculating that Samus could have kept the Hatchling around for a while before turning it over for research. I mean, she did violate her mission objective (and probably didn't get paid) because she let it live. Would there have been something terribly wrong about being able to look inside your ship's windshield during Metroid Prime, and seeing a little Metroid happily bouncing off the walls?
And the presence of Space Pirate-controlled Metroids in a game doesn't mean it must come before the extermination of the Metroids on SR-388, because it's obvious that the extermination of the Space Pirates themselves and their secret Metroid tests was (and probably always will be) incomplete.
I think it's just that Retro put Metroids into Metroid Prime because they wanted to, and some people asked "How can there be Metroids in this game if they were all exterminated in Metroid 2?" and Retro said "I dunno. We can just put Prime before Metroid 2 if that makes you happy."
Metroid Prime's official place seems to be before Metroid 2, but I just think it would have worked better after it.
Post by: ruby_onix on April 01, 2003, 12:21:37 PM
"Don't know about Metroid Fusion, but the second or third screen on Super Metroid's intro. sequence (before you even start the game) actually has the name Metroid 3 on it. So, someone can validly call Super Metroid by the name Metroid 3, althought not many people do."
I think a good analogy for it is Star Wars.
If you look at the cover of The Empire Strikes Back, it doesn't say that it's Episode 5 (or ever Star Wars, for that matter) on the cover, but we all know that it's full name is "Star Wars: Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back" and the original movie was "Star Wars: Episode IV: A New Hope".
It doesn't really matter that the only ones to use the episode numbers on their covers and stuff have been Episodes 1 and 2.
When dealing with continuity, I think it's clearer to make sure that the complete names and numbers are mentioned.
Post by: Gehin on April 01, 2003, 12:31:40 PM
Post by: ruby_onix on April 01, 2003, 02:02:53 PM
If they weren't, Samus would have let the player fulfill their duty and eliminate the little bugger the instant they saw him/her/it.
Post by: OutlawST on April 01, 2003, 02:59:42 PM
x and x' . Metroid Prime is after the orginal Metroid because it is Metroid'
As found at http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=prime
>prime ( P )
>n.
>6. A mark (') appended above and to the right of a character, especially:
> a. One used to distinguish different values of the same variable in a mathematical expression.
That's my two cents.
Edit: copy and paste has thwarted me again.
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 01, 2003, 07:05:35 PM
Also the reason why Metroid Prime isn't numbered is because all the rest of the games were already numbered. It was a done did deal. I mean what were they supposed to do call it Metroid 1 1/2.
Post by: theaveng on April 02, 2003, 07:16:37 AM
QuoteFLAW: If Samus wiped out all the aliens in Metroid 2... except for that baby... how come she found Metroids in Metroid Prime? That means she discovered the Metroid Prime planet *before* she killed all the Metroids... before Metroid 2.
Originally posted by: ruby_onixI'm speculating that Samus could have kept the Hatchling around for a while before turning it over for research. I mean, she did violate her mission objective (and probably didn't get paid) because she let it live. Would there have been something terribly wrong about being able to look inside your ship's windshield during Metroid Prime, and seeing a little Metroid happily bouncing off the walls?
Troy (Sidles off)
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 02, 2003, 10:20:10 AM
QuoteI have to completely disagree with all of that. First of all whether or not she wouldn't have gotten paid she wouldn't have been irresponsible and just ran around the galaxy with something that is a galactic threat. She would have and did in fact take it immediately to the space station. Also I doubt she wouldn't have gotten paid. For one thing she didn't fail her mission. It's just that instead of destroying the last Metroid she just packed it up and took it with her. It could still be destroyed at any time. Also I'm sure that she was probably paid even more for bringing back a live test subject. I can't imagine that the scientist were upset over that. Scientist: "Samus we are very upset that you brought us the very last metroid so we could study the thing. Something that as scientist we would absolutely love to do. It's also something no one else could do because it was far to dangerous. Because of this we aren't paying you." Yeah that makes a lot of sense.
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
I'm speculating that Samus could have kept the Hatchling around for a while before turning it over for research. I mean, she did violate her mission objective (and probably didn't get paid) because she let it live.
Finally I doubt Retro ever planned on placing Metroid Prime after Metroid II. From playing Metroid Prime I can tell they are fanatics about the series and would have known from the beginning that trying to squeeze a game between Metroid II and Metroid Prime would not have worked not to mention would have been stupid. I'm sure that as they were coming up with the story that they planned on making it a sequel to Metroid. Also could you actually explain to all of us why Metroid Prime would have been better if it happened after Metroid II instead of just saying it would.
Post by: ruby_onix on April 02, 2003, 02:01:18 PM
Space Pirates are capable of space travel. Therefore they are capable of trasporting cargo from one hidden base to another.
The Space Pirates apparently stole one single Metroid from the original SR-388 research team. It multiplied when exposed to Beta rays. Now the Space Pirates had a limitless supply of them. There was no need for them to ever get more of them from SR-388 as long as even one of them survived in Space Pirate hands somewhere. I figure Samus's mission to SR-388 was completely unrelated to the Space Pirates, who probably didn't even care what happened to SR-388.
Look at it this way, Samus wiped out Ridley on Zebes in the original Metroid. So how can the Space Pirates on Tallon IV have a re-built version of him in Metroid Prime?
"I really don't see any argument for putting Metroid Prime after Metroid II and don't understand why people are determined to say that's where it goes."
Nobody's saying that's where it goes. I'm saying that there was a better opening for it there.
"What's the point? It really doesn't matter where it goes actually it's just that it makes more sense and is easier to put it after Metroid not after Metroid II. I mean what the hell is the problem with putting Prime directly after Metroid anyway?"
Super Metroid (which you even said laid out the storyline nice and clearly) says that no encounter between Samus and Metroids can exist between Metroids 1 and 2. "The first time I battled Metroids was on Zebes. The next time was on their homeworld, where I wiped them out."
"The fact of the matter is is that there is no problem with putting it there while there is a problem with putting it after Metroid II or any other game for that matter which is why your guy's argument makes no sense. Hell, you don't even have an argument."
Did you read my earlier posts? Oh well, I'm repeating myself a bit here, so you don't really have to.
Just get over what ever you guys are hung up about and except the FACT that Metroid Prime happens between Metroid and Metroid II.
Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
I'm speculating that Samus could have kept the Hatchling around for a while before turning it over for research. I mean, she did violate her mission objective (and probably didn't get paid) because she let it live.
I have to completely disagree with all of that. First of all whether or not she wouldn't have gotten paid she wouldn't have been irresponsible and just ran around the galaxy with something that is a galactic threat. She would have and did in fact take it immediately to the space station."
You're making assumptions about her character. Ones I (for one) don't agree with. And regardless, her unwritten personality is easier to change than her written logs in Super Metroid.
"Also I doubt she wouldn't have gotten paid. For one thing she didn't fail her mission. It's just that instead of destroying the last Metroid she just packed it up and took it with her. It could still be destroyed at any time. Also I'm sure that she was probably paid even more for bringing back a live test subject. I can't imagine that the scientist were upset over that. Scientist: "Samus we are very upset that you brought us the very last metroid so we could study the thing. Something that as scientist we would absolutely love to do. It's also something no one else could do because it was far to dangerous. Because of this we aren't paying you." Yeah that makes a lot of sense."
She didn't "fail" her mission exactly, but she did abandon it. The Galactic Federation decided that the Metroids were too dangerous to exist, and hired Samus to wipe them out. She killed a bunch of Metroids, then left the planet without finishing the job.
You seem to think she did that because she saw a "containable" Metroid, and compromised her entire mission because she realized it was worth more alive.
I think she couldn't finish her mission because she's not a baby-killer. She realized her mission was wrong. This Metroid thought Samus was it's mother, and she couldn't betray it.
Saving the life of one baby Metroid was an atonement for her genocide, and I think it's possible that it could have taken a while for the Galactic Federation to convince Samus that the Metroid would be safe and well-treated with them, before she handed it over.
And BTW, it wasn't reckless and irresponsible of her to keep it. She's proved a number of times that she's the only one who can handle them. Perhaps she had to wait a few months for them to construct a proper containment facility?
"Finally I doubt Retro ever planned on placing Metroid Prime after Metroid II. From playing Metroid Prime I can tell they are fanatics about the series and would have known from the beginning that trying to squeeze a game between Metroid II and Metroid Prime would not have worked not to mention would have been stupid."
Because the Space Pirates aren't cabable of transporting Metroids through space, so they alway need to get fresh ones from SR-388. I get it now. Wait, if SR-388 is another planet...
"I'm sure that as they were coming up with the story that they planned on making it a sequel to Metroid. Also could you actually explain to all of us why Metroid Prime would have been better if it happened after Metroid II instead of just saying it would."
Because putting it before Metroid 2 made a plot hole. Super Metroid didn't just forget to mention Metroid Prime, they ruled it out. Now people have to either ignore a "flaw" in Super Metroid's story, or one in Metroid Prime's. That cheapens the entire Metroid storyline.
Especially since I can see a better opening for a game after Metroid 2, due to some potential extra time (nobody is saying it is there, but it could have been if Retro wrote it that way), and the fact that the Space Pirates and the planet SR-388 are seperate issues. The Space Pirates don't need to get Metroids from SR-388. They already have them. What, do people think that there will never be any more Metroids in any future Mertoid games? Ever? If the Space Pirates can come back, so can the Metroids.
And it wouldn't have affected Metroid Prime at all to have put it after Metroid 2. All they would need is maybe one Pirate Data note mentioning that "It appears as if the Galactic Federation has cut off the Metroid source at SR-388, so all reasearch teams should be cautious not to exhaust their supplies."
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 02, 2003, 04:51:47 PM
QuoteWell, guess what if Metroid Prime took place after Metroid II that little opening intro would have still been messed up wouldn't it.
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
Super Metroid (which you even said laid out the storyline nice and clearly) says that no encounter between Samus and Metroids can exist between Metroids 1 and 2. "The first time I battled Metroids was on Zebes. The next time was on their homeworld, where I wiped them out."
QuoteShe didn't leave without finishing the job. Instead of killing the hatchling she decided to take it to a Galactic Ferederation research station so it could be studied. They were obviously happy about this from the way that one scientist was shaking Samus's hand in the Super Metroid intro. Leaving the planet without finishing the job would be more like if she just decided to leave the hatchling on the planet without killing it.
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
She didn't "fail" her mission exactly, but she did abandon it. The Galactic Federation decided that the Metroids were too dangerous to exist, and hired Samus to wipe them out. She killed a bunch of Metroids, then left the planet without finishing the job.
QuoteTo quote you, "You're making assumptions about her character. Ones I (for one) don't agree with." Your entire post there is about personal opinions that exist only in your head. They weren't stated any where in the games so how does it make your assumptions about her character better than mine. Hell, I wasn't even making assumptions. I was only going by what's in the games. Since you have obviously read the intro for Super Metroid I figured you would have noticed this part, "I personally delivered it to the galactic research station at Ceres so scientists could study its energy producing qualities...". She says right there that the reason she took it the research station was so that the damn thing could be studied.
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
You seem to think she did that because she saw a "containable" Metroid, and compromised her entire mission because she realized it was worth more alive.
I think she couldn't finish her mission because she's not a baby-killer. She realized her mission was wrong. This Metroid thought Samus was it's mother, and she couldn't betray it.
Saving the life of one baby Metroid was an atonement for her genocide, and I think it's possible that it could have taken a while for the Galactic Federation to convince Samus that the Metroid would be safe and well-treated with them, before she handed it over.
Also her atitude toward the metroid is also pretty well expressed in this part, "The scientists’ findings were astounding! They discovered that the powers of the metroid might be harnessed for the good of civilization!" See how shocked she is by the discovery that the metroid could be used for good. This shows that up until the discoverey she felt they could only be used for negative purposes.
QuoteHahaha... My point was is that you can't put another game between Metroid II and Super Metroid because we know of Samus whereabouts during that time. Also as far as Samus knew she had wiped out all the metroids except for the hatchling after what she did on SR388. As a matter of fact she had wiped them all out except for the hatchling.
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
Because the Space Pirates aren't cabable of transporting Metroids through space, so they alway need to get fresh ones from SR-388. I get it now. Wait, if SR-388 is another planet...
QuoteOh, so putting Metroid Prime after Metriod II even though it would have caused the exact same plot hole in the Super Metroid intro wouldn't have cheapened it. Interesting logic you have there.
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
Because putting it before Metroid 2 made a plot hole. Super Metroid didn't just forget to mention Metroid Prime, they ruled it out. Now people have to either ignore a "flaw" in Super Metroid's story, or one in Metroid Prime's. That cheapens the entire Metroid storyline.
QuoteUmm, when did I say that we need Metroid on SR388 to get metroids? NEVER. In fact Metroid Prime addresses that whole idea because the pirates had extra metroids that they had on space ships and stuff. Samus wasn't aware of this till sometime after she landed on Tallon IV. However it's obvious from Super Metroid that the space pirates no longer had a personal supply of metroids and since SR388 didn't have any that's why they had to steal the hatchling. This means that Samus destroyed the pirates supply of metroid during Metroid Prime. Actually if Metroid Prime 2 is a direct sequel to Metroid Prime then the space pirates personal supply of metroid will probably be destroyed during that game.
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
Especially since I can see a better opening for a game after Metroid 2, due to some potential extra time (nobody is saying it is there, but it could have been if Retro wrote it that way), and the fact that the Space Pirates and the planet SR-388 are seperate issues. The Space Pirates don't need to get Metroids from SR-388. They already have them. What, do people think that there will never be any more Metroids in any future Mertoid games? Ever? If the Space Pirates can come back, so can the Metroids.
Also so far the games have done a good job of explaining why the metroid are there or why they have come back when we thought they were all destroyed. So I don't think they will just say they are there because they are since they haven't done that yet.
Post by: theaveng on April 02, 2003, 06:22:13 PM
QuoteOkay. Well then, why did Samus say in Super Metroid, "I wiped out all the Metroids," when she knew some still lived on the Metroid Prime planet?
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
"FLAW: If Samus wiped out all the aliens in Metroid 2... except for that baby... how come she found Metroids in Metroid Prime? That means she discovered the Metroid Prime planet *before* she killed all the Metroids... before Metroid 2."
The Space Pirates apparently stole one single Metroid from the original SR-388 research team. It multiplied when exposed to Beta rays. Now the Space Pirates had a limitless supply of them.
http://members.shaw.ca/rebirth2/sc1.avi
Post by: ruby_onix on April 02, 2003, 08:16:56 PM
Nope. I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Samus's "log" (for lack of a better word) at the start of Super Metroid wasn't a complete battle record. It was a very short history of her experience with Metroids and the Metroid Hatchling in her posession.
She says she first fought the Metroids on Zebes, and next fought them on SR-388, where she picked up the baby Metroid. She seems to be just talking about the story of the baby Metroid, so she doesn't need to talk about anything that happened after she found it (until she did something noteworthy with it, at Ceres), but the way it was worded eliminated the option of Metroid Prime (unless MP didn't have any Metroids in it, but it did).
The idea that her trip to Ceres was "immediate" only exists in our heads (I used to think it was immediate too), like the stuff we've all imagined about Samus's personality.
"She didn't leave without finishing the job."
The Galactic Federation sent a science ship to SR-388, and they caught a Metroid. The Space Pirates stole it.
After Samus dealt with the Space Pirates, the Feds sent another science vessel to SR-388 and never heard from it again.
The Feds then sent a rescue ship to SR-388, and it was lost too.
Then the Feds sent the military into SR-388, and they were all wiped out.
The Feds decided that Metroids were too dangerous to exist, and asked Samus to exterminate every last one of them.
They didn't ask Samus to escort a science team, or bring back samples, or anything like that. Her mission was to wipe out everything. Any way you cut it, she dropped her mission (which would be her option, as a bounty hunter, not a soldier). Either she switched to the dangerous plan midway-through (against the direct wishes of the Galactic Federation) to make a couple scientists happy, or she spared a life first (and took it into her protection, because she knew the Feds would send someone else to finish the job if she didn't) and made some scientists happy as a secondary afterthought.
"To quote you, "You're making assumptions about her character. Ones I (for one) don't agree with." Your entire post there is about personal opinions that exist only in your head. They weren't stated any where in the games so how does it make your assumptions about her character better than mine. Hell, I wasn't even making assumptions. I was only going by what's in the games."
My assumptions aren't more valid than yours. But you said that there can't be any time between Metroid 2 and Super Metroid, and that my therory on how it could (which dealt with Samus's personality and motivations) was wrong.
"Hahaha... My point was is that you can't put another game between Metroid II and Super Metroid because we know of Samus whereabouts during that time."
Oh, okay. I thought you were using the "How can there be Metroids if they were all killed in Metroid 2?" thing. My bad. You're talking about the time between Metroid 2 and Super Metroid.
"Umm, when did I say that we need Metroid on SR388 to get metroids? NEVER. In fact Metroid Prime addresses that whole idea because the pirates had extra metroids that they had on space ships and stuff. Samus wasn't aware of this till sometime after she landed on Tallon IV.
Yeah. That was what I thought you were getting wrong.
"However it's obvious from Super Metroid that the space pirates no longer had a personal supply of metroids and since SR388 didn't have any that's why they had to steal the hatchling."
Not neccassarily. They could have stolen it because they wanted to keep information about the Metroids (the Space Pirates potentially ultimate weapons) and their possible weaknesses out of Galactic Federation hands.
Here's the basics of what I'm trying to say.
1: Retro made a fantastic game in Metroid Prime, but they made at least one plot hole by putting it exactly where they did in the Metroid timeline (between 1 and 2).
2: Looking carefully at the starting of Super Metroid, I think there could be an opening for at least one adventure between Metroids 1 and 2, but not if they involve Metroids in it.
3: There could be an opening for a game with Metroids between Metroid 2 and 3, but only if they expand the timeframe beyond what most of us have assumed, and make some not-unreasonable clarifications to Samus's motivations and priorities. The adventure can't have anything to do with the Metroid Hatchling Samus got at the end of Metroid 2.
4: I wonder what would happen to the Fusion-Suit Samus of Metroid 4 if she were exposed to Beta rays?
5: Random picture of Manga Samus!
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 02, 2003, 08:49:54 PM
QuoteGoing by what you are saying then why would she need to mention Metroid Prime. It doesn't have anything to do with the hatchling whether it takes place before or after Metroid II.
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
"Well, guess what if Metroid Prime took place after Metroid II that little opening intro would have still been messed up wouldn't it."
Nope. I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Samus's "log" (for lack of a better word) at the start of Super Metroid wasn't a complete battle record. It was a very short history of her experience with Metroids and the Metroid Hatchling in her posession.
She says she first fought the Metroids on Zebes, and next fought them on SR-388, where she picked up the baby Metroid. She seems to be just talking about the story of the baby Metroid, so she doesn't need to talk about anything that happened after she found it (until she did something noteworthy with it, at Ceres), but the way it was worded eliminated the option of Metroid Prime (unless MP didn't have any Metroids in it, but it did).
I really don't think it's that big of a deal in the end. All things considered I think Retro did a pretty good job with fitting Prime in the story line. I just don't think it's logical that Samus wouldn't have immediately went to the space station. It has nothing to do with her personality either. It just makes better sense that way. Retro put it in a good spot because there wasn't any overlapping story with Metroid and Metroid II. There was nothing that said that this or that occurred between those two games. At least nothing that said Samus was here or there anyway. With Metroid II and Super Metroid though we know that between those two games Samus took the metroid hatchling to the space station at some point. The only real problem with where Metroid Prime is is the intro for Super Metroid. Despite how you feel about it you would have had that same problem whether the game took place before or after Metroid II though. Retro placed Prime where they did to avoid causing problems with Samus taking the hatchling to the space station. Apparently they too felt it made sense that Samus would take it there immediately therefore giving no time to put another game there and they also realized that putting any game before Super Metroid would cause problems with the intro so that it didn't really matter.
The important thing is is that Prime doesn't cause any problems with the other games stories. It doesn't cause a problem with Metroid, Metroid II, Super Metroid, or Metroid Fusion. It only causes a problem with the intro for Super Metroid which was just a way to help the gamer understand what had happened in the last two games and how that affected what was happening in Super Metroid. And the only real problem with it is that it's just not mentioned because the game wasn't going to be made for another 8 years.
Post by: JoeFalco on April 02, 2003, 09:59:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
4: I wonder what would happen to the Fusion-Suit Samus of Metroid 4 if she were exposed to Beta rays?
You would have Metroid 5: Attack of the Clones
Post by: ruby_onix on April 02, 2003, 10:16:09 PM
It's the specific wording. She's talking about the Hatchling in that log entry, so she doesn't have to cover everything that's happened to her recently, but she does specifically say that the first place she fought Metroids was Zebes, and the second was SR-388.
Now after Metroid Prime, the first place she fought Metroids was Zebes, and the third was SR-388.
Actually, now that I think about it, if Metroid Prime 2 were to take place right after Metroid Prime, and involve something about Samus contracting some sort of short term amniesia...
Post by: theaveng on April 03, 2003, 07:21:48 AM
Also please LEARN TO USE QUOTING. Reading messages with "Metroid did this or that" surrounded by quotes is extremely hard on the eyes. Please use [ Q] and [ /Q].
QuoteOkay. Well then, why did Samus say in Super Metroid, "I wiped out all the Metroids," when she knew some still lived on the Metroid Prime planet?
Originally posted by: ruby_onix"FLAW: If Samus wiped out all the aliens in Metroid 2... except for that baby... how come she found Metroids in Metroid Prime? That means she discovered the Metroid Prime planet *before* she killed all the Metroids... before Metroid 2."
The Space Pirates apparently stole one single Metroid from the original SR-388 research team. It multiplied when exposed to Beta rays. Now the Space Pirates had a limitless supply of them.
Post by: ruby_onix on April 03, 2003, 11:16:44 AM
Something like that can only be said at some point when she thought the Metroids were all gone for good. Metroid Prime tosses a monkeywrench into it.
Unless she was just talking about SR-388.
Something like "I went to SR-388 and wiped out all the Metroids (on SR-388)."
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 03, 2003, 05:07:20 PM
