It's official: Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Melty Blood...all of them won't have anywhere near the depth that a competitive game of SSBB does.
Think about how far a SSBB player can take their game: mid-game, a player can be tweaking their moveset. Since there are advantages to both spamming a move and not using it at all now, you can literally be customizing your character on the fly in terms of move potency.
Two Mario players start a match. 30 seconds later, they could be as different in moveset as Mario was from Dr. Mario, and all of this happens dynamically and at the player's discretion.
No other fighting game has this depth. You typically just memorize moves and use them at the appropriate time. In SSBB, you'll have to keep mental tabs on which of your moves you've used and landed and where their appropriate knockback ability should now be.
This is, of course, if this new system is all that it's cracked up to be. We could still be mistaken in terms of its relevance, but it sounds to me like this is officially the deepest fighting game ever, unless there's another fighting game that factors fatigue into movesets mid-fight.
If this is indeed the case, I forgive Sakurai everything. He might not have even intended to give players an edge with which to combo each other better by spamming moves, but the result is still the same.
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 05, 2008, 02:56:44 PM
So what you're saying is, I'm better than all of you?
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Dirk Temporo on February 05, 2008, 03:18:12 PM
Smash Boards and everybody on it make me want to kill everybody on the planet, and then myself.
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Arbok on February 05, 2008, 03:46:06 PM
Greatest discovery ever... now people will be forced to use those sometimes "unorthodox" B moves to spice things up, or not always fall back on the same aerial smashes.
Title: RE:OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Sessha on February 05, 2008, 03:58:03 PM
Actually S_B Lucario's moves get progressively stronger the more he's damaged. This intrigued me, no doubt players wanting to main Lucario will change how they play as more damage is racked up
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Stogi on February 05, 2008, 04:35:32 PM
Wow, if this is true, Sakurai has really "thought of everything!"
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Gylldas on February 05, 2008, 06:18:26 PM
Hmmm I didn't know about this at all until now. Pretty awesome!!
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Adrock on February 05, 2008, 06:27:34 PM
Wow, I actually braved the link and read a Smash boards post. That's a pretty neat-o observation.
Title: RE:OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 05, 2008, 07:48:58 PM
Um yeah?
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Tanookisuit on February 06, 2008, 03:12:28 AM
Crap. I'm a 2-move kinda guy. I'm screwed.
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Nick DiMola on February 06, 2008, 03:41:59 AM
Interesting discovery, but I feel like it really is in favor of serious players of the game rather than beginners. A beginner is likely to spam moves because they don't really know how to play, I hope this doesn't make the barrier of entry too high. On the other hand, it is really going to make things more interesting in my group of friends who play at a more advanced level.
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: decoyman on February 06, 2008, 03:51:05 AM
Wasn't this, at least in a dilluted form, already in Melee? Move spamming reduces damage, which in turn reduces knock-back. I noticed it when I'd spam Pikachu's fast headbutt (kinda like Link's quick-stabbing move).
Is it something different, or just more pronounced in Brawl?
Title: RE:OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 06, 2008, 04:13:00 AM
Quote Originally posted by: decoyman Wasn't this, at least in a dilluted form, already in Melee? Move spamming reduces damage, which in turn reduces knock-back. I noticed it when I'd spam Pikachu's fast headbutt (kinda like Link's quick-stabbing move).
Damage was reduced in 64 and Melee, but not knockback: you could still hit with the same sending power with a smash attack each time, no matter how many times you spammed it, hence why a Marth/Roy player could sit in the middle of a 4 player Brawl and C-stick left and right and rack up kills. That same strategy this time would get them nowhere.
In Brawl, knockback is being reduced every consecutive move to the point where, if you try to kill someone 5 times with the same move, even WITH the extra damage, they won't fly as far with the 5th attack as they did with the 1st.
THIS, folks, is why people have been living to well past 100% damage: no one had realized that you can't hit a player with the same move four times and expect to kill them.
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Stogi on February 06, 2008, 05:13:50 AM
I hope this doesn't apply to items.
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: decoyman on February 06, 2008, 05:29:41 AM
Ah, got it. Interesting. But yeah, too bad for the newbs who rely on button mashing. But hey, that's why items exist.
Kash, I doubt it would apply to items, since they're limited by time or usage (gun only fires so many shots, hammer only lasts so long, bob-ombs are a one-shot deal).
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: DAaaMan64 on February 06, 2008, 06:01:24 AM
I'm happy about this. Samus' missiles are super annoying and people use them over and over on opponents. Glad to see those get weaker. HATE Samus in Smash Bros.
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Smoke39 on February 06, 2008, 06:05:23 AM
My favorite thing in Melee is shooting people in the face with a missile as I fall past them.
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 06, 2008, 06:48:43 AM
Down with C-stickers.
Title: RE:OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Stogi on February 06, 2008, 08:35:16 AM
Quote Originally posted by: decoyman Ah, got it. Interesting. But yeah, too bad for the newbs who rely on button mashing. But hey, that's why items exist.
Kash, I doubt it would apply to items, since they're limited by time or usage (gun only fires so many shots, hammer only lasts so long, bob-ombs are a one-shot deal).
Ya maybe. I was honestly thinking about the home run bat, beam sword, and magic wand; items that only disappear if they're hit out of your hands or thrown.
I am all about spamming the home run bat. I've gotten pretty damn good at setting up fools for a bat in the face and it'll be a shame if I can't go on the 5-6 kill streak that I'm use to.
OH and PRO: I USE THE C-STICK!
......for throwing items.
...i hate the z button.
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 06, 2008, 08:52:50 AM
What happens to your precious C-stick during Event 51? HUH?
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Stogi on February 06, 2008, 09:21:28 AM
I kicked ass as Roy during event 51.
Ganondorf hooked it up with his "EEERRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAH" Punch. It's so easily reversed.
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: decoyman on February 06, 2008, 09:49:01 AM
What's with the sudden c-sticker hate?
I use the C-Stick sometimes... There really aren't that many cases, but I use it when I don't need a charged smash.
I USE ALL OF THE BUTTONS ON THE CONTROLLER, DANG IT, AND YOU SHOULD TOO.
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 07, 2008, 12:21:16 AM
Since Melee Smash Bros was always "the deepest fighter game ever" well that is when you play it with all the options. Because with items everything changed so quickly you had to constantly be able to adapt, plan, and attack on the fly. This was taken to a whole new level than any other fighting game. It is really quite amazing because Nintendo was able to create a deeper fighting game experience, but with fewer moves and buttons than the traditional fighter.
This little bit of information just adds to it.
Title: RE:OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: deathstar45 on February 07, 2008, 12:58:19 AM
It appears that some people have already found a way to use this to do infinity combos:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=hwaa_Lt9sqQ
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=aNrzSVih5DY (Just the beginning)
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: that Baby guy on February 07, 2008, 01:03:05 AM
Looks to me like those actually have nothing to do with it. Those are just infinite combos, and the lower damage and knockback aren't having an effect, or else the combo wouldn't be able to start.
However, the first one looks like it'll only happen to Snake, while the second, I believe the opponent could have jumped out. I'm not certain of either, though.
Title: RE:OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Dasmos on February 07, 2008, 08:21:43 PM
Quote Originally posted by: deathstar45 It appears that some people have already found a way to use this to do infinity combos: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=hwaa_Lt9sqQ http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=aNrzSVih5DY (Just the beginning)
Oh, god. Those are two of the most stupid videos I have ever seen.
Title: RE:OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Shecky on February 08, 2008, 12:18:50 AM
Smash has always had a "recovery time" from certain moves. The only thing the second video shows is that with the decreased "knock back" you also shorten the time needed for the recovering character to begin responding to user input - no surprise.
Title: RE:OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on February 09, 2008, 02:41:22 AM
Do you know what other game has diminishing returns?
That's right
World of Warcraft.
Title: RE: OFFICIAL: SSBB is the deepest fighting game, ever...
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 09, 2008, 10:17:24 AM
