Post by: Darkheart on January 05, 2008, 06:31:24 AM
I have chosen to go with LCD for its durability and I have heard nightmarish stories about Plasma so thats one of the things down.
I decided to go with 720p/1080i just for the pure fact that this will be for my Wii, regular Dvd watching and maybe a 360 that I might pick up later in the year. I dont really feel I need 1080p for any reason. I might get a Ps3 in a few years but I feel ok with knowing I have a 720p.
Next is brand choice, now I have been told to get only a Sharp or Samsung which is ok I suppose but I will explain the rest later.
I went with a 1000 dollar budget, I have saved up this money thoroughly for a year now and for a poor college student I feel spending any more than that would be a waste on my living money.
Response time, I have been told time and time again that I need a 6ms response time or less for a really good gaming television so that my gaming sessions wont face issues with lag.
Ok so with these general guidelines I set out online to see what sort of deals I could come up with. My deadline is approaching to buy a television and I have come up with two really good choices. I was hoping I could show them to you guys and get some feedback about my decisions or if you think I could do better.
Tv #1
LG Black 42" 16:9 5ms 720p LCD HDTV
$999.00
Display
Screen Size 42"
Recommended Resolution 1366 x 768
Aspect Ratio 16:9
Viewing Angle 178°(H) / 178°(V)
Brightness 500 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio 8000:1 Dynamic Contrast Ratio
Response Time 5ms
Connectivity
Input Video Compatibility PC Input: Analog RGB
ATSC, NTSC, QAM Tuner
720p, 480i/p
HDTV Capability HDTV Tuner Inside
Connectors RF In (Antenna/Cable): 1
L/R Audio/Composite Video In: 1
L/R Audio Out: 1
S-Video In: 1
HD Component Video In (Y,Pb,Pr) + L/R Audio: 2
Optical Digital Audio Out: 1
HDMI/HDCP Input: 2
RGB In (D-Sub 15pin) - PC: 1
PC Audio Input: 1
Remote Control In (IR): 1
RS-232c In (Control/Service): 1
USB (Service only)
HDCP Ready Yes
HDMI 2
Tv # 2
SHARP AQUOS Black / Silver 37" 16:9 LCD HDTV w/ built-in ATSC Tuner Model
$999.00
Display
Screen Size 37"
Recommended Resolution 1366 x 768
Maximum Resolution 1366 x 768
Panel a-si TFT/PVA LCD
Aspect Ratio 16:9
Display Type WXGA
Viewing Angle 176°(H) / 176°(V)
Brightness 450 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio 1200:1
Response time: 6ms
Connectivity
Input Video Compatibility NTSC/ATSC/QAM
HDTV Capability HDTV Tuner Inside
Connectors D-Sub, S-Video, Composite, Component, RCA
HDMI 2
Video S-Video, Composite, Component
D-Sub 1
Now see both are priced ok but Sharp, the supposed better brand has 37 inches and 6ms time while the LG has 42 in and 5 ms time. Is Lg any good? Do I have to worry about much lag with the wiimote and an Lcd? Should I go for either or reconsider altogether?
in the fashion of Ouendan and EBA
HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLP
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNN!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 05, 2008, 10:22:08 AM
Post by: Pale on January 05, 2008, 04:21:59 PM
My fiancee's family just got a vizio 42 inch for like 920 from Wal-Mart. They don't play games on it, so I can't really comment on that, but everything else looks really nice.
In my honest opinion, there's a pretty large difference between 37 and 42 inch sets, so of the two you posted, I would go bigger.
Also, I don't think you can go wrong with either Sharp or LG.
Post by: wandering on January 05, 2008, 06:48:14 PM
Post by: IceCold on January 05, 2008, 07:10:05 PM
Post by: Stogi on January 05, 2008, 07:26:13 PM
1080i - When dealing with 1080 HD, the i and p are minimal differences. Not like the difference between 480i and 480p
HDMI / DVI / VGA / Component / Composite input
Comes with 30 ft HDMI/DVI/VGA/Component cables
160" screen; works best in conjunction with an HDMI reciever.
That's what I got, and I couldn't be happier.
EDIT: My buddy has a 1080p Sharp LCD (looks like the model above) and at first he was content, until he saw my setup. He sank 2500 into his TV, and now he's looking into a 1080p projector which are at least 2 G's. As you can guess, he's well off, but lacks imagination.
I'd be happy to post some pictures of my setup if you would like. I am test running a buddies PS3 so I can display blu-ray, and of course, I got my Wii hooked up. Also, my brother and I download a different movie everyday and watch it with dinner from one of our labbies, so I could show you the picture from that as well.
Oh ya, also got those HD Channels.
Post by: Darkheart on January 06, 2008, 02:10:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Well I originally decided to buy an LCD TV and ended up returning 2 before I decided on Plasma. Even at 6ms you still visual ghosting especially with sports games, not to mention LCD TVs still have a problem with being brighter. The new Plasma TVs on the other hand are quite good, especially those with burn-in protection such as pixel orbiting. Though even with a Plasma, if you don't keep a static image on the screen for like 8 hrs you shouldn't have a problem. If you want to be safe just burn a free burn-in DVD and let it run 200hrs or so using that DVD, and you should be safe as well.
Funny because any thread I read online that was about LCD vs Plasma almost all of them agreed that Plasma was better than LCD however whenever I saw a thread about gaming televisions everyone else was saying LCD all the way hands down.
Post by: Darkheart on January 06, 2008, 02:14:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
I was going to suggest DLP but your budget doesn't seem quite there...
My fiancee's family just got a vizio 42 inch for like 920 from Wal-Mart. They don't play games on it, so I can't really comment on that, but everything else looks really nice.
In my honest opinion, there's a pretty large difference between 37 and 42 inch sets, so of the two you posted, I would go bigger.
Also, I don't think you can go wrong with either Sharp or LG.
42 is very tempting considering at the beginning of last year a 1000 dollar budget would only get me a 32 inch screen.
Yea I figured to go with the Sharp since its one of the best brands out there in LCD technology. But the Lg just seems like a better deal and I have been just getting mixed reactions from people online in articles and forums. Some say LG is a generic brand company who makes mediocre prices. Some say LG makes cheap televisions because they are trying to break into the marketplace and don't have credibility like Sharp or Sony. Customers that reviewed LG televisions after buying them seem to be quite happy with their purchases. Perhaps it will just end up a trial and error sort of thing.
Post by: Darkheart on January 06, 2008, 02:19:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
Mitsubishi HD1000 DLP projector. $900; Packaged with a screen and ceiling mount $1000 after 100 dollar rebate.
1080i - When dealing with 1080 HD, the i and p are minimal differences. Not like the difference between 480i and 480p
HDMI / DVI / VGA / Component / Composite input
Comes with 30 ft HDMI/DVI/VGA/Component cables
160" screen; works best in conjunction with an HDMI reciever.
That's what I got, and I couldn't be happier.
EDIT: My buddy has a 1080p Sharp LCD (looks like the model above) and at first he was content, until he saw my setup. He sank 2500 into his TV, and now he's looking into a 1080p projector which are at least 2 G's. As you can guess, he's well off, but lacks imagination.
I'd be happy to post some pictures of my setup if you would like. I am test running a buddies PS3 so I can display blu-ray, and of course, I got my Wii hooked up. Also, my brother and I download a different movie everyday and watch it with dinner from one of our labbies, so I could show you the picture from that as well.
Oh ya, also got those HD Channels.
Well I am not sure if this would work well at all because:
#1. My apt is pretty small the projector would probably be 10 ft away at best
#2. I am not sure if I would be able to mount the screen and projector
This setup seems awesome but perhaps more suited for when I get my own house.
I should also mention that this tv is for my apartment I live in right now while I go to school for video game art and design. The overall goal is to move closer to the industry or move somewhere after college so this thing should be fairly easy to travel/move with and be less permanent. I hear Plasma is bad to move around because of the tech inside it.
Post by: Stogi on January 06, 2008, 06:16:49 AM
10ft away is not going to cut it. My living room is about 14 1/2 feet wide and it still doesn't fill my 160" screen. It's probably around a 100" though.
However, for traveling purposes, you CAN'T beat the portability of a projector.
Post by: UncleBob on January 06, 2008, 06:21:31 AM
Post by: WalkingTheCow on January 06, 2008, 09:25:17 AM
Post by: Darkheart on January 06, 2008, 10:38:12 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 06, 2008, 12:30:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: darkheartQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Well I originally decided to buy an LCD TV and ended up returning 2 before I decided on Plasma. Even at 6ms you still visual ghosting especially with sports games, not to mention LCD TVs still have a problem with being brighter. The new Plasma TVs on the other hand are quite good, especially those with burn-in protection such as pixel orbiting. Though even with a Plasma, if you don't keep a static image on the screen for like 8 hrs you shouldn't have a problem. If you want to be safe just burn a free burn-in DVD and let it run 200hrs or so using that DVD, and you should be safe as well.
Funny because any thread I read online that was about LCD vs Plasma almost all of them agreed that Plasma was better than LCD however whenever I saw a thread about gaming televisions everyone else was saying LCD all the way hands down.
Well if you are budgeting a 1000 dollar TV I don't see how it can be, because unless you have a short response time you will more than likely see motion blur in more faster moving games. The burn-in issue is pretty much taken care of, and they have similar response times to CRT. I read many of those same fears and guess what? My TV has been PERFECT for gaming and I have had NO burn-in issues and my TV was only 1300 when I got it a year ago. But at least get your TV from a retail store so if you have problems with refresh rate you can exchange it. Also test it out with faster paced games like many of the sports games out there.
Post by: Pale on January 08, 2008, 02:34:14 AM
I don't see how these "burn in techniques" could work on large bars on either side and I REFUSE to watch stuff all stretched out.
PS: My 61 inch DLP was 1900 bucks. Much better bargain IMO.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 08, 2008, 02:38:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
GP, do you watch pillar box when you are watching normal TV? or do you stretch it.
I don't see how these "burn in techniques" could work on large bars on either side and I REFUSE to watch stuff all stretched out.
PS: My 61 inch DLP was 1900 bucks. Much better bargain IMO.
I always stretch it out and notice no real visual degradation. Even if you wish to watch it pillar size most new plasma's utilize colors (such as grey) to limit if not eliminate burn-in. This is especially true if you do the 200+ hour burn-in period on the new plasmas. Heck from what I understand once the plasma reaches 1000+ hrs the TV is basically like a CRT when it comes to burn-in because the gases are not burning nearly as bright.
Post by: Cap on January 10, 2008, 06:21:02 PM
http://ca.lge.com/en/products/model/detail/plasmatv_42pc5d.jhtml#
it has given me no problems at all for games.
Post by: Darkheart on January 11, 2008, 05:28:57 AM
Did you buy your tv online?
Is it worth it to buy online?
I really want to buy this television but Neweggs warranty pretty much is, I can refuse to sign for the box if its damaged, but once I open the box if anything is wrong with the television I have to use the manufacturer warranty. I know if I went to a retail store this would not be the issue at all but these deals are WAY better than I find in the store. Is it worth the risk?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 11, 2008, 05:43:29 AM
Post by: Darkheart on January 12, 2008, 12:39:42 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 12, 2008, 04:42:24 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 12, 2008, 04:47:31 PM
Post by: Darkheart on January 12, 2008, 07:52:23 PM
Anyways I saw this open on his browser, he's sleeping atm, and I figure I can answer those questions.
Model: Samsung HP-T4624
Features: I think all of its specs are here. It's a newer model, so of note are a 60,000 hour lifespan and a few built-in tools to prevent burn-in reduction (
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subtype=plasmatv&model_cd=HPT4264X/XAA
It's a really nice TV, vibrant colors.. though there's so many ways to change them, it's hard to find the most preferred setting! Definitely not a bad thing.
The only concern I can think of with this TV is that it burns very hot. This apartment already has problems generating too much heat. I think it could be a problem in the summer, but whatever, it's worth it.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 12, 2008, 08:08:42 PM
Post by: Darkheart on January 13, 2008, 02:07:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Yeah my plasma puts out quite a bit of heat, but I love it. Like I said if anything keep the TV on for 200hrs or so before playing anything with a static image. While it is unlikely it is still possible to get some burn-in during that period (which is why most recommend using burn-in software or keeping it on a channel without static logos. The reason why is because the gases burn brightest during that period. After that point though you should be safe. Also turn on pixel orbiting (It appears that TV may have it), and keep the brightness along with contrast at or below 50, at least to start.
Do you mean just run the television for 200 hours not playing a game or movie?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 13, 2008, 10:18:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: darkheartQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Yeah my plasma puts out quite a bit of heat, but I love it. Like I said if anything keep the TV on for 200hrs or so before playing anything with a static image. While it is unlikely it is still possible to get some burn-in during that period (which is why most recommend using burn-in software or keeping it on a channel without static logos. The reason why is because the gases burn brightest during that period. After that point though you should be safe. Also turn on pixel orbiting (It appears that TV may have it), and keep the brightness along with contrast at or below 50, at least to start.
Do you mean just run the television for 200 hours not playing a game or movie?
You can play a movie. Like I stated it isn't a huge issue anymore to be on the safe side they recommend you run it for 200hrs with something without static images so the gases aren't burning as bright (which is what causes burn-in). Though from reading reviews on your TV it appears to be a highly rated TV so it may not be a huge concern for you!
Post by: Darkheart on January 13, 2008, 11:08:04 AM
Post by: utarefsoN on January 19, 2008, 11:22:42 AM
Post by: Darkheart on January 19, 2008, 12:26:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: utarefsoN
i suggest looking at the Toshiba Regza. Excellent TV.
Sorry got the tv already and love it to bits maybe next time
.
Post by: Sarail on January 20, 2008, 12:16:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: darkheart
Yea I just read in a magazine that it was rated #2 Plasma television of the year~! I am very happy with this television but now between standard dvds and Wii games . . . I want to see what it REALLY can do. Perhaps a 360 or Ps3 is in the future for me~!
Just be patient and wait a little over three years from now. I'm sure Nintendo's next console will have HD output.
It it doesn't... expect a major outlash to begin.
No need to waste money on something that's not worth it.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 25, 2008, 03:58:51 PM
I brought my Wang(TM) to Frys over the weekend to try it out, and checked for lag using Wii Play and Metroid Prime 3. These are good games to test out since they run at 60fps and the crosshairs move with similar, yet very smooth sensitivity on native 480i/480p TV sets. But more importantly, the smooth Remote aiming in these games comes at the price of a cursor delay -- it's almost unnoticeable but it's definitely there, and I'm sure I'm sure people have noticed it, since 30fps situations like the Wii Channel Menu and RE4 Wii have even less perceived delay. Cursor delay is good for TV testing since the lag generated by HDTVs will further *exaggerate* it.
Whoever said the Samsung xx87 series had no lag in all those google/ign articles I read thru last week at work spoke too soon. They probably only tried out Wii Sports and Twilight Princess, where lag isn't a big deal at all. From my understanding, the older DLP models lack the optimized "Game Modes" present in today's models.
As for my Frys visit, I spent a good hour with my Wang(TM) in a separate, hot, sweaty, TV room/oven dedicated to 6 similar models of Samsung DPL TVs. Other adjacent rooms had all-plasmas or all-LCDs, and they burned even hotter. Once in a while, other shoppers would stop by and see me wave my Wang(TM) this way and that, evaluating the limits of HDTV technology vigorously.
There's a clear and noticeable lag on the 5687's (and 6187) default settings. The crosshairs in both games noticeably dragged around. Aiming was NOT comfy since the crosshairs wouldn't end up where I expected them to during snap/twitch-aim situations.
I turned on "Game Mode>Sports", and that made a big difference (the other Game Modes didn't help much). There was still maybe a hint of lag (compared to what I feel from my CRT), but the games still played very well. Snap-aiming was comfy and responsive, as it should be. Only by that condition did I deem the lag to be acceptable. Then I decided to purchase one.
I originally asked for the 61" $1800 set, but it wasn't in stock, so I settled for the 56" set at $1600, which is still a great deal and not a bad downgrade at all.
Post by: Caliban on February 25, 2008, 06:26:21 PM
I personally never had any issues with my Samsung DLP (720p) when playing Metroid Prime 3, but then again being the videophile that you are it is obvious you can discern any differences better than the common TV buyer.
Post by: vudu on February 25, 2008, 07:29:28 PM
being the videophile that you are it is obvious you can discern any differences better than the common TV buyer.
Pro666 currently plays games on a 10-year old 27" CRT using an S-Video cable.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 25, 2008, 07:34:15 PM
Post by: Caliban on February 25, 2008, 07:47:56 PM
being the videophile that you are it is obvious you can discern any differences better than the common TV buyer.
Pro666 currently plays games on a 10-year old 27" CRT using an S-Video cable.
That's irrelevant, and crucial.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on February 25, 2008, 09:42:05 PM
being the videophile that you are it is obvious you can discern any differences better than the common TV buyer.
Pro666 currently plays games on a 10-year old 27" CRT using an S-Video cable.
That's irrelevant, and crucial.
I honest to got play all my games on a 25" Zenith with no power button and RF only.
Post by: Pale on February 25, 2008, 11:12:08 PM
I think you're crazy. I haven't played Prime 3 yet, but I have played SPM on it and Wii Play.
I don't use the Game Modes because the colors get all screwed up sometimes.
Post by: Pale on February 25, 2008, 11:13:20 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 26, 2008, 02:01:52 AM
That game has as much action as Elevator Action.
"and Wii Play"
Have you tried the Shooting Gallery on a CRT?
"I haven't played Prime 3 yet"
Are you are a staffer at NINTENDO World Report?
"I honest to got play all my games on a 25" Zenith with no power button and RF only."
^ This guy is free from lag. Righteous.
Post by: Pale on February 26, 2008, 10:25:31 AM
As for SPM, I tested with that game because my dad has a 67 inch Samsung DLP from like 2 gens ago (not LED obviously) and the jumping on that game was so painfully delayed on his TV. In fact, I think I made a thread here about it.
You didn't answer my question about Guitar Hero... does that run at 60 frames?
Oh and my old TV was a 53 inch sony projection from like 8 years ago, and I used to play Wii Play on that. Also, what does Link's Crossbow Training run at? Because I play that on this new TV as well and don't notice any lag in the aiming.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on February 26, 2008, 11:17:20 AM
Post by: DAaaMan64 on February 26, 2008, 02:09:02 PM
"I honest to got play all my games on a 25" Zenith with no power button and RF only."
^ This guy is free from lag. Righteous.
WELL i HAD LAGS, BUT uPDATED MY wII mENU, AND NOW GONE.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 26, 2008, 02:40:16 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 26, 2008, 03:22:03 PM
Heh, yes I'm a staffer. I actually just finished Prime 2, which I was behind on, and that's why I haven't picked up three yet.
As for SPM, I tested with that game because my dad has a 67 inch Samsung DLP from like 2 gens ago (not LED obviously) and the jumping on that game was so painfully delayed on his TV. In fact, I think I made a thread here about it.
You didn't answer my question about Guitar Hero... does that run at 60 frames?
Oh and my old TV was a 53 inch sony projection from like 8 years ago, and I used to play Wii Play on that. Also, what does Link's Crossbow Training run at? Because I play that on this new TV as well and don't notice any lag in the aiming.
The older Samsung DLPs are agreed to have the lag problem.
GHIII runs at 60fps. Button-based lag is more difficult to discern than the cursor lag I've come across.
Can't comment on Link's Murder Simulator cuz I didn't fall for Nintendo's casual gamer trap. But 30fps games should be less affected by lag.
The big projection TVs from the previous decade should not have any lag since they natively operate at 480 lines. My parents also have a 53" Sony projecto.
I failed to mention I didn't check if my Wang(TM) was running in 480p or 480i at Frys. I was using a pre-owned Nyko component cable I bought for $20. What I do know is the games were a blurry mess on the 6187 compared to the crispness of my CRT display. Curse the HD revolution.
Pale, please try Wii Play Shooting in 480i on your 6187, with and without Game Mode, and present your findings. Try drawing circles with the cursor, use twitch-aiming across the screen, don't lead/follow targets, etc.
~~~~~
Operation TV-GET yesterday was a DISASTER
****
@#$%&^(^$&IVNFGJERNWEN^&<OUERB #$^W#T%B
When we first arrived to pick it up, the store staff had rolled out the wrong TV model (5676). So I waited 10min while they rolled it back and looked for the real one. They brought back the real one (5687).
My friend and I picked up the TV, drove off, opened it up at my apartment, set it down on the stand all nice and centered, and decided to turn it on. Then we discovered,
NO REMOTE
NO PAPERS
NO POWER CORD
WTF
The staff failed to notice they had handed me an OPEN BOX0RS product by MISTAKE.
So right now it's boxed up and sitting in my apartment only as a BLOCK OF LIES AND DECEIT AND DESPAIR.
I'm going back later today to pickup the real thing.
THE HD REVOLUTION OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T WANT ME AND IS FIGHTING BACK WITH EVERY OUNCE OF EVIL IT CAN MUSTER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on February 27, 2008, 02:49:30 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 27, 2008, 04:59:21 PM
Is right now a very good time to get a new TV? I probably don't buy a new tv more than every 6 years.
There's never a good time to get a new TV, in the grand scheme. Good, long-lasting technology is slow to roll out (and unforseen problems like early HDTV gaming lag are quick to bite), and prices are somewhat slow to fall. If your current TV broke, then anytime soon would seem like a very good time to get a new TV, but that's an extreme case.
What's always applicable is getting a TV you'd like at a GREAT price. At least that's my view.
My Samsung HLT5687 review will follow.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on February 27, 2008, 05:00:16 PM
Is right now a very good time to get a new TV? I probably don't buy a new tv more than every 6 years.
There's never a good time to get a new TV, in the grand scheme. Good, long-lasting technology is slow to roll out (and unforseen problems like early HDTV gaming lag are quick to bite), and prices are somewhat slow to fall. If your current TV broke, then anytime soon would seem like a very good time to get a new TV, but that's an extreme case.
What's always applicable is getting a TV you'd like at a GREAT price. At least that's my view.
My Samsung HLT5687 review will follow.
Well the thing is, my 25" RF only Zenith is looking pretty shitty...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 27, 2008, 05:02:29 PM
"Well the thing is, my 25" RF only Zenith is looking pretty shitty..."
How does your wallet look?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on February 27, 2008, 08:52:20 PM
"What's always applicable is getting a TV you'd like at a GREAT price. At least that's my view."
"Well the thing is, my 25" RF only Zenith is looking pretty shitty..."
How does your wallet look?
Good, I'd say 900-1000 dollars max. I don't need anything giant. Just nice and good quality. That reasonable? I haven't sold TVs for quite a while now...
Post by: Darkheart on February 28, 2008, 01:41:15 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 28, 2008, 03:06:05 AM
my tv cost me 1000 bucks and its nice and big Samsung 42 inch Plasma, but I am sure people will yell at me for even suggesting a Plasma.
I won't!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 28, 2008, 04:47:45 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 28, 2008, 01:38:55 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 28, 2008, 02:47:08 PM
Post by: DAaaMan64 on February 28, 2008, 02:57:15 PM
Don't buy a Plasma if you want to play No More Heroes or Okami!
Is that the truth? and if so why?
Post by: Darkheart on February 28, 2008, 07:14:37 PM
Don't buy a Plasma if you want to play No More Heroes or Okami!
What? I had no issues playing from start to fiinish on NMH on my plasma . . .
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 28, 2008, 07:42:34 PM
Don't buy a Plasma if you want to play No More Heroes or Okami!
What? I had no issues playing from start to fiinish on NMH on my plasma . . .
You didn't get the black bars on the side?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 28, 2008, 07:49:35 PM
Post by: DAaaMan64 on February 28, 2008, 10:51:48 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 29, 2008, 01:24:53 AM
Post by: RABicle on February 29, 2008, 09:07:10 AM
Post by: Darkheart on February 29, 2008, 11:35:02 AM
Don't buy a Plasma if you want to play No More Heroes or Okami!
What? I had no issues playing from start to fiinish on NMH on my plasma . . .
You didn't get the black bars on the side?
Okami has been fixed and NMH DID have some small black bars but it never caused any burn in. I have a program that I run on it every single time I play a game and it always keeps the screen nice and fresh. Many of my Wii games have small black bars like DBZBT3 and never cause any burn in. Newer Plasmas really dont suffer from this . . .
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 03, 2008, 08:13:36 PM
(Samsung xx87 LED DLP series)
Why I bought it
- Price: on sale for $1600 last week (compare with $2300 regular at BestBuy)
- Value: more viewable real-estate per dollar compared to other TVs in the >50" range
- Heat: doesn't produce light via EXPLODING gases, unlike plasma; runs cooler than both plasma and LCD at similar sizes
- Weight: it's lighter than smaller plasma and LCD sets, and I don't care about wall-mounting
- Burn-in: I'm under the impression this is not an issue with DLP, so HAH (lawl plasma)
- LED: apparently it's the best-looking and longest-lasting of the DLP technologies
- It's not LCD: I don't have to worry about LCD's historic ghosting/blurring issue, at all
- Wii: in-store test play (Samsung 6187) with Metroid Prime 3 was acceptable
Negatives
- The factory settings are lousy, for both movies and games. Considerable picture tweaking was necessary.
- LLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL HD Revolution sucks. Pixels from SD sources become smeared blobs of fail. The impression of crispness that was attainable from even an S-Video source on a SD CRT is lost. Using component cables doesn't rescue the situation (DVD movies are less affected than game consoles, since film produces more natural, smooth images, while games display objects with well-defined pixels). Scaling decently softens jaggies at the expensive price of image sharpness. The Sharpness setting in the Menu has little effect on the appearance. Such is the pitfall of fixed-pixel resolution displays. SUPER SAI EAGLE 8X ENGINE ROFLCOPTERS
- The "DNIe" image enhancement feature is nice but I don't think is necessary. It mainly brightens up the whole picture. Maybe too much. It significantly brightened up dark color ranges in games that I think should not be bright, sorta ruining dark/shadowy areas in games that are supposed to be DARK AND SHADOWY. So I turned it off. But the feature is nice in DVD movies.
- Noise Reduction and DNIe settings could not be indepently saved for my separate video inputs (my 2 component sources were labled DVD and GAME). One setting seemed to apply to all the inputs, which was not desirable. So I have them both off.
- When using the Source remote control button to change inputs, a mini-menu for the various sources pops up, but I have to push the "enter" (or "exit")button to make the GUI crap go away; it won't disappear after a few seconds.
Video Game Lag
- I chose Metroid Prime 3 as the game to evaluate HD display lag at its worse.
(1) The game displays at a smooth 60 fps (59.94 Hz), which means the screen updates every 1/59.94 of a second, or 0.0167 sec. If a lagged/delayed frame is drawn onto the screen in less time, our eyes shouldn't be able to perceive lag. The Interweb says that "Game Modes" in modern HDTVs minimize lag to 10 ms, or 0.010 sec, at best -- at 0.010 sec, things are in good shape. DVD Hollywood movies didn't have to worry about lag, since 24 fps updates every 0.042 sec, so HDTV-design with (only) DVDs in mind always had decent breathing room.
(2) The game's targetting reticule is much cleaner than Wii Play's. The points are small, defined, and lack the blurry cursor trails produced by Wii Play's cursors. There is less visual junk to interfere with my assessment.
(3) Of all the "best" cursors I've come across on Wii, MP3's reticule has the greatest inherent lag. It's even noticeable when playing on a CRT, which should not introduce extra lag in the first place. Apparently the game spends a bit more time crunching numbers to achieve such a stable cursor. Thanks to the lag already in MP3, extra lag would exaggerate it, and noticeably affect performance and comfort.
The Test
- Played in 480p widescreen mode.
- I run Samus to a spot where there's a floor or a wall with somewhat dark coloring so I can see the green reticule clearly. I aim up/down to fill the screen with said floor/wall then lock the view in place by standing still and Z-targetting the entire time.
- I look at my TV and hold the Wang(TM) Remote such that I can see the reticule and the Remote "race" each other. I have one eye closed and i don't necessarily focus on either object; I just make sure I can see their relative positions to each other. I tried not to pay attention to the Arm Cannon, since it was animated with intentional lag, and threw my judgement off.
- Then I do whatever. Draw circles with the reticule, snap the reticule from one side to the other, draw Zorro symbols, quick left-rights and right-lefts.
- Then I run around and try to play like normal.
The Results
- With Game Mode turned off, the lag feels obvious. Seeing the reticule play catch-up with the remote was obvious. Playing normally wasn't comfy becuz, additionally, the CAMERA was playing catch-up with the reticule.
- With Game Mode (any) turned on, the natural lag was noticeable, ketchup was less obvious, and normal play felt "right". That made me satisfied with my purchase
- On the flipside, the Mii Channel has the MOST accurate and responsive cursor.
(1) It SHAKES LIKE HELL, because we do. Apperently there's next to zero stability processing performed.
(2) With Game Mode on, my eyes can't trace any lag whatsoever.
Final Score:
FULL FIST
- great price
- has color
Why it missed DOUBLE THE FIST
- LOLOLOLL;OLOLOLOL HD next-generation pixels come at the price of ruining SD-everything (the win-generation)
My DVD (480p) settings:
Mode: Standard (doesn't matter)
Contrast: 55
Brightness: 50
Sharpness: 65
Color: 60
Color mode: Normal
Digital NR: Off
DNIe: Off
Color Gamut: Normal
My Gaming (480p) settings:
Mode: Game (Sports)
Contrast: 54
Brightness: 44
Sharpness: 74
Color: 64
Color mode: Normal
Digital NR: Off
DNIe: Off
Active Color: On
Color Gamut: Normal
I adjusted my DVD settings based on Kill Bill Vol.2. There were some good dark spots during night time around Bud's trailer, and the Pai Mei chapter had some very bright, white spots. When things are too dark and/or too bright and/or too saturated, details get smothered & lost in the intense areas. So I tried to avoid all three while still maintaining richness in color and retaining detail on things like night time soil and Pai Mei's white hair against pure-white sky spots, and to present skin tones that aren't too rosy or too bluish.
My gaming settings were based on the Wii Menu and Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicle's "brightness check". Same objectives as above, to retain details while having rich colors, but also not washing-out dark regions in games like REUC. Decent saturation is nice to have in games, but at the same time I don't want the rich reds, blues, etc. to make the picture seem biased towards the saturated colors.
DNIe has the effect of darkening darks and brightening brights -- too much, based on my other settings. The dark/bright spots lost some differences in tone, which made color banding obvious in regions that would normally have smooth color transitions, like the bottom borders of the Wii Menu (Channels and Wii Management). Therefore, I disabled DNIe for good.
Post by: ShyGuy on March 03, 2008, 08:49:08 PM
Post by: IceCold on March 04, 2008, 01:40:02 AM
Post by: Athrun Zala on March 04, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
$1600 seems like way too much.this depresses me to no end ;_;
Post by: Pale on March 04, 2008, 10:58:28 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on March 04, 2008, 12:50:06 PM
$1600 seems like way too much.this depresses me to no end ;_;
Wait, why is that depressing? Bleeding edge TV technology drops in price rapidly. A year from now this will be noticeably less. Also, Going down to a 50" would be cheaper as well. In some cases you are paying a $100 for every extra inch. But that's just me.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 04, 2008, 02:01:27 PM
$3000 for a SMALLER TV is too much.
It's all relative to the point in time and the prices of similar TVs at other stores.
Post by: Pale on March 04, 2008, 03:59:18 PM
Post by: Caliban on March 04, 2008, 05:35:32 PM
Negatives
- The factory settings are lousy, for both movies and games. Considerable picture tweaking was necessary.
Which settings did you tweak, the settings that are easily accesible, or the uber complex settings that are displayed after you input the appropriate secret code?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 04, 2008, 05:45:44 PM
Post by: Caliban on March 04, 2008, 05:48:26 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 04, 2008, 06:20:44 PM
Post by: Caliban on March 04, 2008, 07:12:24 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 04, 2008, 07:45:40 PM
I'm hesistant to try it cuz the Service Menu can literally shut-off components within the machine (the one in particular is called FLI2300), and I don't want to risk accidental permanent disability.
Post by: Athrun Zala on March 05, 2008, 01:42:24 PM
I didn't mean the fact being depressing, but your statement... because, well, for a semi-decent 32'' LCD (Samsung R8), that's the amount of money one has to pay over here...$1600 seems like way too much.this depresses me to no end ;_;
Wait, why is that depressing? Bleeding edge TV technology drops in price rapidly. A year from now this will be noticeably less. Also, Going down to a 50" would be cheaper as well. In some cases you are paying a $100 for every extra inch. But that's just me.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 05, 2008, 02:26:50 PM
I also perused the deadly Service Menu, and found nothing useful.
Post by: wandering on March 06, 2008, 04:11:45 AM
This thread has scared me away from ever buying a TV again, even though I really need to replace my bedroom TV, a hand-me-down that was made in the 1970s.
Just get a CRT. Unlike other high-definition tvs, CRTs have no lag, no burn-in issues, the ability to produce deep blacks, and the all-around best picture possible.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 06, 2008, 04:32:20 AM
This thread has scared me away from ever buying a TV again, even though I really need to replace my bedroom TV, a hand-me-down that was made in the 1970s.
Just get a CRT. Unlike other high-definition tvs, CRTs have no lag, no burn-in issues, the ability to produce deep blacks, and the all-around best picture possible.
Now I may be wrong, but I believe CRTs can have burn-in as well.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 06, 2008, 05:19:47 AM
This thread has scared me away from ever buying a TV again, even though I really need to replace my bedroom TV, a hand-me-down that was made in the 1970s.
Just get a CRT. Unlike other high-definition tvs, CRTs have no lag, no burn-in issues, the ability to produce deep blacks, and the all-around best picture possible.
Actually that's what I'm planning on doing. We got a HD CRT for the living room a couple years ago and it's great. And GP, as far as I know while it's technically possible to get burn-in on a CRT, it would take an extremely long time.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on March 06, 2008, 10:25:33 AM
Post by: Caliban on March 06, 2008, 03:19:20 PM
Now I may be wrong, but I believe CRTs can have burn-in as well.
They used to more frequently, but it is very rare now to find a modern CRT where that will happen.
This thread has scared me away from ever buying a TV again, even though I really need to replace my bedroom TV, a hand-me-down that was made in the 1970s.
Just get a CRT. Unlike other high-definition tvs, CRTs have no lag, no burn-in issues, the ability to produce deep blacks, and the all-around best picture possible.
OLED should fix the problem. Heck even SED was supposed (it never got released to the public) to fix the problem. There's even this new plasma tech from Pioneer I think that has awesome blacks.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 06, 2008, 03:56:50 PM
This thread has scared me away from ever buying a TV again, even though I really need to replace my bedroom TV, a hand-me-down that was made in the 1970s.
Just get a CRT. Unlike other high-definition tvs, CRTs have no lag, no burn-in issues, the ability to produce deep blacks, and the all-around best picture possible.
Now I may be wrong, but I believe CRTs can have burn-in as well.
No, your right GoldenPhoenix. The old Apple's had burn-in problems.
