Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 03, 2008, 06:40:05 PM
According to VGchartz, the game has sold over a million copies worldwide. US sales are around 600,000+ copies.
I've been trying to look for Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 sales in order to compare the numbers. Does anyone have them or know where to find them?
Also, would you consider MP 3's sales a major disappointment or solid enough?
Post by: Kairon on January 03, 2008, 06:46:10 PM
As for MP3, I don't think these numbers are respectable yet. MP1 had more than a million sales in America alone dinnit? Maybe MP3 will have legs... I HOPE it has legs, because I don't consider it a sales "success" until it maches up equitably with MP1.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 03, 2008, 06:47:13 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 03, 2008, 06:52:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
You've checked the VG Chartz numbers for the first two, right? I'm sure there are some more concrete numbers out there, but I don't think they're easily available without a bit of leg work.
As for MP3, I don't think these numbers are respectable yet. MP1 had more than a million sales in America alone dinnit? Maybe MP3 will have legs... I HOPE it has legs, because I don't consider it a sales "success" until it maches up equitably with MP1.
Yep I did.
For some reason, they only list 100,000 plus numbers.
This is just a small part of my research, though. See, while I was looking for games I got curious and decided to look at some sales numbers. Turns out a great deal of Wii games have sold over half a million copies, some worldwide, others in the US.
So, some Wii games are not bombing as some people are saying.
Post by: Kairon on January 03, 2008, 07:05:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
For some reason, they only list 100,000 plus numbers.
I don't understand?
MP1
MP2
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 03, 2008, 07:15:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
For some reason, they only list 100,000 plus numbers.
I don't understand?
MP1
MP2
Looks like MP3 is right in line with MP2.
Post by: Kairon on January 03, 2008, 07:21:59 PM
Well, I guess you could argue that at least MP3 stopped the declining sales of the franchise, but I really don't buy it. It's a game that in every way deserved more glory than what it got... even if it was ultimately a niche concept. The game might actually be performing better than Metroid Prime 2, now that I think about it, considering that the first two MPs got budget re-releases and MP3 is still selling well considering it's full price, but I doubt that Iwata's Nintendo will do that for MP3 or, really, with any game from here on out.
Post by: Louieturkey on January 04, 2008, 03:55:15 AM
Post by: Caliban on January 04, 2008, 04:05:18 AM
Post by: Kenology on January 04, 2008, 04:33:25 AM
MP3 will pass MP2's worldwide total soon as well.
Anyways, what a missed opportunity for Nintendo... and shame on them for not putting the appropriate and substantial marketing muscle behind the game. It would've done much, much better otherwise.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 04, 2008, 04:49:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kenology
Well, to be fair, MP3 is selling much better in its 18th week than MP2 was. With those legs, it'll certainly crawl its way past MP2's U.S. LTD - though it'll definitely take a while.
MP3 will pass MP2's worldwide total soon as well.
Anyways, what a missed opportunity for Nintendo... and shame on them for not putting the appropriate and substantial marketing muscle behind the game. It would've done much, much better otherwise.
::sigh:: I think you guys are dreaming that think it would have done better with more marketing. Bioshock had tons of marketing and it has not translated into vastly more sales. Metroid Prime is a relatively niche series that is not for the mainstream crowd, and I think we need to admit that. All the marketing in the world is not going to change the 3rd iteration of a series everyone knows what to expect from.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 04, 2008, 05:03:40 AM
Though it is always frustrating when something so great is ignored. Metroid Prime is not some super hardcore niche type of game like Romance of the Three Kingdoms or something like that. It's not a non-game but it seems like a game that someone who has the patience to figure out Halo or Splinter Cell or Grand Theft Auto or even The Legend of Zelda would like if they gave it a fair playthrough.
Post by: Crimm on January 04, 2008, 05:47:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
For some reason, they only list 100,000 plus numbers.
I don't understand?
MP1
MP2
lol japan no liek metroidz
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 04, 2008, 06:57:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
For some reason, they only list 100,000 plus numbers.
I don't understand?
MP1
MP2
I was using a different chart and search engine. It always gave me low sales numbers for some reason.
As for MP3's overall sales, that's not so bad. I mean, you have to consider that:
- The game was on a system that is nigh impossible to find right now
- The console is dominated by non and casual games
- The game had big competition in Bioshock and Halo 3
You have to remember that the reason the first Prime sold so well was because not only was it a major revolution in the Metroid franchise it was the first Metroid game IN YEARS! People snatched it up like crazy. Afterwards, Samus made more frequent appearances across Nintendo's platforms so the hype died down a little.
Post by: ShyGuy on January 04, 2008, 07:49:24 AM
Post by: bustin98 on January 04, 2008, 08:26:41 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 04, 2008, 08:53:44 AM
While I'll agree that Metroid's absense helped create hype in Metroid Prime I think a big reason why it sold better than the sequels is because a lot of people who bought Metroid Prime wanted it to play like an FPS and it didn't so they decided they didn't like it and thus didn't buy the sequels. I think Nintendo's attempts to portray Metroid Prime as their Halo has hurt the series because it's not a fair comparison. If Nintendo had a different FPS series to compete with Halo and Metroid was allowed to just be Metroid I think it would stand out more.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 04, 2008, 09:14:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"You have to remember that the reason the first Prime sold so well was because not only was it a major revolution in the Metroid franchise it was the first Metroid game IN YEARS! People snatched it up like crazy. Afterwards, Samus made more frequent appearances across Nintendo's platforms so the hype died down a little."
While I'll agree that Metroid's absense helped create hype in Metroid Prime I think a big reason why it sold better than the sequels is because a lot of people who bought Metroid Prime wanted it to play like an FPS and it didn't so they decided they didn't like it and thus didn't buy the sequels. I think Nintendo's attempts to portray Metroid Prime as their Halo has hurt the series because it's not a fair comparison. If Nintendo had a different FPS series to compete with Halo and Metroid was allowed to just be Metroid I think it would stand out more.
Ian you do have a point there, Nintendo disappointed many by their attempts at comparing it to Halo (I believe MP2 tried to do this). Let's face it though, most gamers are out for the bang bang, shoot bad guys FPS than ones with puzzle solving, it is just how it is.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 04, 2008, 09:18:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"You have to remember that the reason the first Prime sold so well was because not only was it a major revolution in the Metroid franchise it was the first Metroid game IN YEARS! People snatched it up like crazy. Afterwards, Samus made more frequent appearances across Nintendo's platforms so the hype died down a little."
While I'll agree that Metroid's absense helped create hype in Metroid Prime I think a big reason why it sold better than the sequels is because a lot of people who bought Metroid Prime wanted it to play like an FPS and it didn't so they decided they didn't like it and thus didn't buy the sequels. I think Nintendo's attempts to portray Metroid Prime as their Halo has hurt the series because it's not a fair comparison. If Nintendo had a different FPS series to compete with Halo and Metroid was allowed to just be Metroid I think it would stand out more.
I personally hated the game back when I first played it. I wasn't expecting lots of shooting, but I WAS overwhelmed by how slow it was and the amount of backtracking you had to do, so I don't blame some gamers if they felt the same way and have avoided the rest of the MP games.
Hell, even if fans claim that MP 3 is LEAGUES better than its predecessors due to faster backtracking and great controls I am still doubtful of it.
The first MP game left that big of a negative impression on me, so I wouldn't be surprised if everyone else feels the same way.
Post by: Kairon on January 04, 2008, 09:20:05 AM
But you know, last night GP and I were PMing back and forth about this and she said that if Metroid Prime was a failure, there'd be dozens of games out there that wished to have just the same sort of failure. Maybe Metroid Prime 3 is selling BETTER than we should expect it to given its gameplay style, audience, lack of advertising, etc. It's a great game with a world of troubles arrayed against it, but despite all odds more than a million people are beating their way to its door regardless.
Post by: Kenology on January 04, 2008, 01:50:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Kenology
Well, to be fair, MP3 is selling much better in its 18th week than MP2 was. With those legs, it'll certainly crawl its way past MP2's U.S. LTD - though it'll definitely take a while.
MP3 will pass MP2's worldwide total soon as well.
Anyways, what a missed opportunity for Nintendo... and shame on them for not putting the appropriate and substantial marketing muscle behind the game. It would've done much, much better otherwise.
::sigh:: I think you guys are dreaming that think it would have done better with more marketing. Bioshock had tons of marketing and it has not translated into vastly more sales. Metroid Prime is a relatively niche series that is not for the mainstream crowd, and I think we need to admit that. All the marketing in the world is not going to change the 3rd iteration of a series everyone knows what to expect from.
Bioshock is an original IP though and I think you're severly underestimating Metroid's fanbase and general appeal. I disagree that Metroid is a niche title. When Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion sell over a million units and the substantially less marketed Metroid Prime 2 sells over 800,000 copies, the "niche title" arguement goes down the drain (unless you're talkin' about the series in Japan).
Now, Zack and Wiki, that's a niche title.
Post by: Kairon on January 04, 2008, 02:21:44 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 04, 2008, 06:00:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KenologyQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Kenology
Well, to be fair, MP3 is selling much better in its 18th week than MP2 was. With those legs, it'll certainly crawl its way past MP2's U.S. LTD - though it'll definitely take a while.
MP3 will pass MP2's worldwide total soon as well.
Anyways, what a missed opportunity for Nintendo... and shame on them for not putting the appropriate and substantial marketing muscle behind the game. It would've done much, much better otherwise.
::sigh:: I think you guys are dreaming that think it would have done better with more marketing. Bioshock had tons of marketing and it has not translated into vastly more sales. Metroid Prime is a relatively niche series that is not for the mainstream crowd, and I think we need to admit that. All the marketing in the world is not going to change the 3rd iteration of a series everyone knows what to expect from.
Bioshock is an original IP though and I think you're severly underestimating Metroid's fanbase and general appeal. I disagree that Metroid is a niche title. When Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion sell over a million units and the substantially less marketed Metroid Prime 2 sells over 800,000 copies, the "niche title" arguement goes down the drain (unless you're talkin' about the series in Japan).
Now, Zack and Wiki, that's a niche title.
Metroid Prime 2 was hyped as a Halo killer. Let's face it after the 3rd iteration of a series your fan base is not going to grow unless you radically change the formula. You are dreaming if you seriously think Metroid Prime 3 could have sold better on a system that is more casual oriented in a market that loves run n gun shooters. Metroid Prime 3 had nothing to sell it to the mainstream crowd, and the Nintendo fanbase you are referring to BOUGHT it regardless of marketing, so who would you be advertising it to? Beyond what Nintendo did try to do (Market it as a Wii Play, family game) there is really nothing. Nintendo could have poured millions into the game advertising it and guess what? If I am right, which I believe the numbers show and history shows, Nintendo would have made far less profit off it, maybe putting the series in jeopardy.
So is Metroid Prime or the Metroid series a niche series? Perhaps not on a Zack and Wiki level, but it still is a franchise that isn't going to grow any new fans until it changes to meet the new market. As it stands the series is mainly for a large, but stagnant hardcore Metroid fanbase (as shown by the similar sales numbers in MP2 compared to MP3). Heck a great comparison would be the latest Ratchet and Clank game, Sony at least understands that your aren't going to grow your fanbase for a sequel even with marketing. If people didn't like the R&C games before they aren't going to be suddenly persuaded to buy the next one unless it really shook up the formula. Heck even Halo 3 for all its advertising still has yet to beat Halo 2.
Post by: Kairon on January 04, 2008, 06:12:20 PM
But...but at least Rachet & Clank had that amazing "It's a wonderful world" commercial that runs even now on cartoon network...
Why can't we have something like that?
[/whiny]
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 04, 2008, 09:48:13 PM
That said if MP3's sales are a disappointment then I seriously hope Nintendo will realize this mistake they made in making it FPS and bring it back to its roots. I desperately wanted a game that captures the feel of Super Metroid, but after all these years I'm still waiting. Imagine what it would be like to Zelda and Mario fans if those franchises were suddenly transformed into FPS games. Would Zelda and Mario fans like this dramatic change? Probably not.
Another serious problem with the Prime games is they aren't really different from each other. The leap from Metroid to Super Metroid was enormous and certainly justified its existence; Can the same be said about MP2 from MP1? I haven't played MP3 yet, but I'm sure the control scheme is innovative and impressive, but other than that, is it really much of an advancement from MP2?
I think this is the problem with the franchise as it stands right now. Metroid is the only major Nintendo franchise to be neglected entirely during the N64 era, and then later find itself resurrected in an alien FPS form. As a Metroid fan I am outraged.
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 04, 2008, 09:58:59 PM
Post by: Mario on January 04, 2008, 10:03:16 PM
Post by: Kairon on January 04, 2008, 10:23:24 PM
In fact, Miyamoto didn't believe that third person shooters could work, so it's no wonder that Nintendo took Retro's third-person shooter project and completely retooled it according to their ideas.
Post by: oohhboy on January 05, 2008, 03:36:20 AM
If nothing else, MP help branch out and expand what a FPS shooter could be. It had been a long time since anything as immersive as Deus Ex or System Shock had came out. Neither games were "Vanilla" FPS. MP went further by breaking out of the weapon staples of melee, pistols, shotgun, automatic, explosives, "Exotic". But there is no mistaking it, MP is a FPS, it's not traditional, it moves away from the standard so far it almost forms it's own genre.
If Gunpei Yokoi was still alive, I would imagine Metroid would have made the leap to 3D at the same time as Mario64, but considering that 3D was new back then, Metroid might have define, at least initially what a console FPS is if they made it an FPS. However it would have more likely would have been a 3rd person affair.
The question I ask of Ghost is, what are the "Roots" of Metroid? If it is 2D for you, then you should already be satisfied with the handheld offerings. The exploration, the energy tanks? The shoot to open doors? The different guns? Most of the staple 2D elements from Super Metroid are found within MP and are expanded for 3D. Some were removed due to gameplay/control limitations, but where was the outcry from the disappearance of the fire flower from Mario 64?
Because MP was released one generation late, it will continued to be mislabeled and poorly looked upon critically. Was MP even possible back then when a FPS wasn't done right on a console until GoldenEye and for the Playstation, MOH. If a 3rd person Metroid was released, what would have stopped it from becoming Castlevania 64? Maybe they knew they couldn't get it to work to the level they expected of themselves. Basic R&D weren't ready or had not been done, things like the lock on function in LOZ
OT. The so called dream team was only so big.I hope a lot of these background questions would be answered one day, not just for this game, but many others.
Post by: Kenology on January 05, 2008, 03:58:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: KenologyQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Kenology
Well, to be fair, MP3 is selling much better in its 18th week than MP2 was. With those legs, it'll certainly crawl its way past MP2's U.S. LTD - though it'll definitely take a while.
MP3 will pass MP2's worldwide total soon as well.
Anyways, what a missed opportunity for Nintendo... and shame on them for not putting the appropriate and substantial marketing muscle behind the game. It would've done much, much better otherwise.
::sigh:: I think you guys are dreaming that think it would have done better with more marketing. Bioshock had tons of marketing and it has not translated into vastly more sales. Metroid Prime is a relatively niche series that is not for the mainstream crowd, and I think we need to admit that. All the marketing in the world is not going to change the 3rd iteration of a series everyone knows what to expect from.[/Q
Bioshock is an original IP though and I think you're severly underestimating Metroid's fanbase and general appeal. I disagree that Metroid is a niche title. When Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion sell over a million units and the substantially less marketed Metroid Prime 2 sells over 800,000 copies, the "niche title" arguement goes down the drain (unless you're talkin' about the series in Japan).
Now, Zack and Wiki, that's a niche title.
Metroid Prime 2 was hyped as a Halo killer. Let's face it after the 3rd iteration of a series your fan base is not going to grow unless you radically change the formula. You are dreaming if you seriously think Metroid Prime 3 could have sold better on a system that is more casual oriented in a market that loves run n gun shooters. Metroid Prime 3 had nothing to sell it to the mainstream crowd, and the Nintendo fanbase you are referring to BOUGHT it regardless of marketing, so who would you be advertising it to? Beyond what Nintendo did try to do (Market it as a Wii Play, family game) there is really nothing. Nintendo could have poured millions into the game advertising it and guess what? If I am right, which I believe the numbers show and history shows, Nintendo would have made far less profit off it, maybe putting the series in jeopardy.
So is Metroid Prime or the Metroid series a niche series? Perhaps not on a Zack and Wiki level, but it still is a franchise that isn't going to grow any new fans until it changes to meet the new market. As it stands the series is mainly for a large, but stagnant hardcore Metroid fanbase (as shown by the similar sales numbers in MP2 compared to MP3). Heck a great comparison would be the latest Ratchet and Clank game, Sony at least understands that your aren't going to grow your fanbase for a sequel even with marketing. If people didn't like the R&C games before they aren't going to be suddenly persuaded to buy the next one unless it really shook up the formula. Heck even Halo 3 for all its advertising still has yet to beat Halo 2.
MP2 was never hyped up to be a Halo killer by Nintendo. The media did that... as MP2 was GC's big game and Halo 2 was Xbox's big game for that holiday season (and they both in 1st person).
And dude, you really need to tone yourself down a few notches. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. Just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm "dreaming" or what have you.
Anyways, I believe the mainstream crowd would've definitely checked out MP3 had they actually known about it (i.e. marketing), soccer mom airport commercial notwithstanding. The people that put MP3 in the top 10 its first month are the diehard Metroid fans. And again, I know that Nintendo tried to market MP3, but as I said above, it just wasn't at all appropriate or substantial. In his 'Top Five Hits & Misses of Wii's First Year' editorial on the main page, Jonathan Metts, listed his first miss as being a lack of hardcore marketing. I agree with him wholeheartedly. And in conclusion, you and I can just agree to disagree.
Post by: matt oz on January 05, 2008, 06:31:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: oohhboy
If Gunpei Yokoi was still alive, I would imagine Metroid would have made the leap to 3D at the same time as Mario64, but considering that 3D was new back then, Metroid might have define, at least initially what a console FPS is if they made it an FPS. However it would have more likely would have been a 3rd person affair.
I think if Metroid had made the jump to 3D during the 64 era, it would have been like the 3D Castlevania games: third-person, with a moderate amount of exploration and various weapons and upgrades to be found around the game world. The two games have very similar gameplay features, hence the term 'Metroidvania' to describe the style of play, so I think Nintendo would've gone into the same area that Konami did. (I should say that I've never played Castlevania 64, but I have played one of the PS2 Castlevanias and actually enjoyed it.)
I wonder, though, what the franchise would be like now if that had been the initial 3D direction. Would the series even be around now?
Post by: Kenology on January 05, 2008, 09:05:55 AM
I just want a 2.5D Metroid on Wii or DS (preferrably Wii). I'd be very happy then.
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 05, 2008, 10:43:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: oohhboy
If Gunpei Yokoi was still alive, I would imagine Metroid would have made the leap to 3D at the same time as Mario64, but considering that 3D was new back then, Metroid might have define, at least initially what a console FPS is if they made it an FPS. However it would have more likely would have been a 3rd person affair.
Actually if Gunpei Yokoi was alive there still wouldn't have been a Metroid for the N64. Gunpei Yokoi left Nintendo a year before he died after the Virtual Boy failed. Even if he was alive it wouldn't have made a different since he was no longer with Nintendo.
Not to mention Gunpei Yokoi was only a co-creator of the Metroid series. The man who really deserves most of the credit for the Metroid series is Yoshio Sakamoto. Sakamoto was the director of the original and Super Metroid and is the guy who put the most work into making the series what it is today. I'm tired of people never giving him credit when he's the one who really deserves it. Yes Yokoi deserves credit for helping out, but Sakamoto is the guy who should be truly credited as the series creator.
Post by: Caliban on January 05, 2008, 02:37:27 PM
Today one of my coworkers said that he was dissapointed that Samus was a female...I look at him and think to myself "the end is nigh indeed".
Post by: Kairon on January 05, 2008, 03:02:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
Today one of my coworkers said that he was dissapointed that Samus was a female...I look at him and think to myself "the end is nigh indeed".
That's...that's barbaric.
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 05, 2008, 04:40:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
Thank you Yoshi Sakamoto for such a wonderful series.
Today one of my coworkers said that he was dissapointed that Samus was a female...I look at him and think to myself "the end is nigh indeed".
That's sexist and very sad. What difference does it make what her gender is?
Post by: mantidor on January 06, 2008, 03:19:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Can someone tell me how NINTENDO -ever- compared Metroid to Halo or FPSs. Doesn't anyone remember the massive live action Prime advertisement set in space that heavily emphasised the solo exploration aspect of the game?
Nintendo did a whole parody of the IloveBees things with several sites saying "never send a man to do a woman's job", terrible viral campaign for echoes. MP3 first minutes wasn't less subtle about a halo comparison.
It's ok though, at the end the games are far from the generic content of the halo franchise and if the only reason the first prime did well was because of retarded confused people so be it. The first person perspective fitted perfectly and Nintendo gave us three awesome games. Who cares if the stupid gaming industry expects every fps to be another doom clone with shinier graphics, at least there are enough of us who can appreciate originality and excellent design, the numbers are in no way bad for this type of game. Lets just hope the next metroid game, no matter how many dimensions has, doesn't take another ten damn years to appear.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 06, 2008, 11:13:33 AM
If you don't know what Aether is, get out of this thread.
Post by: Caliban on January 06, 2008, 11:21:46 AM
Well said, mantidor, well said.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 06, 2008, 08:21:32 PM
First time I played through the game, it was on Veteran, and never realized Hypermode could be exploited. Either I completely drained the Hyper Bar in a couple seconds or I shut it off early to save some health; and I played thru the whole game like that.
Only months later I found out about the exploit, and thought "man, this is cheap, almost like that non-challenge people call Twilight Princess." I've come to realize the game is more enjoyable without Hypermode. So unlike Twilight Princess, the challening parts can still be challenging on subsequent play-thrus. So there.
Post by: Shecky on January 06, 2008, 11:55:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
First time I played through the game, it was on Veteran, and never realized Hypermode could be exploited. Either I completely drained the Hyper Bar in a couple seconds or I shut it off early to save some health; and I played thru the whole game like that.
I found out after I had beat the game as well, although I wouldn't really call it an exploit. You have 24 seconds before the suit vents. I always figured the bar turning red cut that time short and would immediately do what the game says (discharge immediately - usually at a target), but turns out it doesn't and you can sort of manage the red bar until you hit that 24 second mark.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 07, 2008, 01:12:39 AM
Post by: Kairon on January 07, 2008, 06:02:18 PM
Post by: Shecky on January 08, 2008, 04:51:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Oh, it's an exploit, alright (or a poor design decision). Without using Hypermode at all, the Rundas fight is about 5 minutes of A-tapping bliss on Veteran (as shown in the link). When Hypermode is utilized to its full extent, the fight lasts around 1 minute, with considerably less button-taps-per-second. More like "huh? this was supposed to be a boss fight?"
Heh, I kinda wish that boss fight took me a little less time... not 1 minute, but it took me more than 5 (IT TOOK FOREVER)
