Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: Flames_of_chaos on November 29, 2007, 06:58:03 AM
Title: Apparently the Guncon 4 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 29, 2007, 06:58:03 AM
This is from a portion of a Gamasutra interview with Time Crisis 4 producer Teruaki Minami…
"Did you have to design it differently to work with a high definition TV set, as opposed to a standard definition TV set?
For the Guncon 1 and 2, those controllers are capturing the flashes from the standard definition TV, however, that method is not compatible with the latest high definition plasma and LCD monitors. So that is one of the reasons that we had to create a new Guncon. And, do work with all different kinds of monitors, we decided to introduce new LED markers - basically for Guncon 3 there is a little camera here [indicates the barrel of the gun] which is catching the position of the LED markers.
Is it similar to the sensor bar from the Wii?
Basically it is the same, but Guncon 3's LED markers are actually much more accurate. Much better than Nintendo Wii's controller. In the Wii, there are only two LED points, but for the Guncon 3 there are six LED points, so it is more accurate than the Wii. The PlayStation 3 will be able to recognize the tilt of the Guncon 3, its distance from the monitor, and these things cannot be done with the Wii system.
So the gun has SIXAXIS capabilities as well?
Yes."
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Nick DiMola on November 29, 2007, 07:03:44 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis Is it similar to the sensor bar from the Wii?
Much better than Nintendo Wii's controller. In the Wii, there are only two LED points, but for the Guncon 3 there are six LED points, so it is more accurate than the Wii.
Why are 6 points any better than 2? With 2 points you can triangulate the location of the Wii remote. With 6 points you are just needlessly complicating the equation, not making the anything more accurate.
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: that Baby guy on November 29, 2007, 07:16:12 AM
Considering that the Wii-Remote has tilt sensors and that you can indeed tell position away from the screen, I have to say, this isn't too impressive.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 29, 2007, 07:29:26 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
Quote Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis Is it similar to the sensor bar from the Wii?
Much better than Nintendo Wii's controller. In the Wii, there are only two LED points, but for the Guncon 3 there are six LED points, so it is more accurate than the Wii.
Why are 6 points any better than 2? With 2 points you can triangulate the location of the Wii remote. With 6 points you are just needlessly complicating the equation, not making the anything more accurate.
Technically both has six points the Wii sensor bar has 3 LEDs on each side and the guncon 3 controller you put 2 boxes on top of your tv and each box supposedly has 3 LEDs.
And even if the Guncon3 has sixaxis tech in it a Wii remote and Nunchuk allows more motion sensor capability and flexibility with what motions you can do (yes even in the wii zapper since you can always detach the nunchuk from the holder), than this monstrosity except in america it comes in orange.
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 29, 2007, 11:50:09 AM
Also, I believe Namco had to do this (6 points) to avoid copyright infringement on the Wiimote.
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Sister Mary LeFever on November 29, 2007, 12:14:06 PM
That weapon looks hideous. Could they have at least tried to make it look like an submachine gun or a machine pistol instead of a handgun with a foregrip?
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 29, 2007, 01:14:26 PM
So the great debate begins which looks better the Zapper or an Orange Guncon 3 thats tethered by a USB chord.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on November 29, 2007, 01:46:49 PM
Sounds pretty sweet unless you have to plug it in ALL WEIRD like the Guncon 2
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Kairon on November 29, 2007, 02:27:47 PM
Technically, if it's 6 IR sources laid out not in a line but at various points on the same 2D place... couldn't you guesstimate angle without any accelerometers by judging the changing distance relationships between the multiple points when seen from different angles?
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: that Baby guy on November 29, 2007, 02:30:47 PM
Couldn't you do the same thing with just two IR sources?
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 29, 2007, 03:23:25 PM
PENIS has more accuracy.
LED = Living Erection Device.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Shift Key on November 29, 2007, 06:45:23 PM
I need a wheel that gives more turning
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 29, 2007, 06:52:36 PM
The irony here is that TC4 features a bounding box like the Wii remote is normally faced with dealing with.
Also, despite the fact that SC:Legends is supposedly pretty bad, it still outsold TC4 by 5,000 units and both games debuted in the US this past week.
Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it, Banco.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: SixthAngel on November 29, 2007, 07:34:08 PM
So they took the time and money to design their own Wii remote to put the game on the ps3 instead of just moving it to the Wii where the game would automatically sell more due to the lack of an expensive gun. I looked at some pictures and it doesn't look like it would have any trouble running on the Wii at all, it just seems like the stupidest business move possible.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 30, 2007, 02:35:52 AM
Quote Originally posted by: SixthAngel So they took the time and money to design their own Wii remote to put the game on the ps3 instead of just moving it to the Wii where the game would automatically sell more due to the lack of an expensive gun. I looked at some pictures and it doesn't look like it would have any trouble running on the Wii at all, it just seems like the stupidest business move possible.
Well not really since the directors of Time Crisis are stubborn enough to not move Time Crisis to another platform besides Arcade and home PS consoles. And I'm sure Soul Calibur Legends beat time crisis because TC4 is at the low low price of 89.99.
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Pale on November 30, 2007, 04:31:52 AM
Logically, if the sensors are separated, it IS probably more accurate than the Wii remote, regardless of the number of LEDs.
The wii remote has absolutely no way of knowing the size of the player's TV. However, if the sensor bar was instead two pieces, each placed on the upper (or lower) corners of the TV, the Wii could make use of that information, along with the current wide screen settings, to figure out the exact size of the TV.
This would mathematically allow for a true 1 to 1 pointer to aim result, without using any configuration guessing like the options in Crossbow training.
If this Gun Con has you putting the LEDs on the corners, I'd be inclined to believe that it is more accurate than the Wii remote, at least as it pertains to 1 to 1 aim to target on the screen.
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 30, 2007, 05:17:06 AM
That's true, but from the description, it sounds like the sensor bar is one solid unit like that of the Wii.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Kairon on November 30, 2007, 05:37:26 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Pale Logically, if the sensors are separated, it IS probably more accurate than the Wii remote, regardless of the number of LEDs.
The wii remote has absolutely no way of knowing the size of the player's TV. However, if the sensor bar was instead two pieces, each placed on the upper (or lower) corners of the TV, the Wii could make use of that information, along with the current wide screen settings, to figure out the exact size of the TV.
This would mathematically allow for a true 1 to 1 pointer to aim result, without using any configuration guessing like the options in Crossbow training.
If this Gun Con has you putting the LEDs on the corners, I'd be inclined to believe that it is more accurate than the Wii remote, at least as it pertains to 1 to 1 aim to target on the screen.
However, the guncon would need to be able to see all the sensors. Ghost Squad comes up against this difficulty in its wiimote calibration option to simulate light-gun accuracy and remove the cursor. Ghost Squad recommends that you stay at a distance of 7-10 feet because if you're too close, the wiimote's IR camera can't see the sensor bar for some aiming angles. Perhaps the Guncon's IR camera has a wider field of view in order to make up for this though?
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 30, 2007, 08:21:50 AM
Twilight Princess knows the size of your TV if you adjust the remote calibration to indicate the size of the sensor bar relative to your TV screen.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 30, 2007, 10:38:19 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Pale Logically, if the sensors are separated, it IS probably more accurate than the Wii remote, regardless of the number of LEDs.
The wii remote has absolutely no way of knowing the size of the player's TV. However, if the sensor bar was instead two pieces, each placed on the upper (or lower) corners of the TV, the Wii could make use of that information, along with the current wide screen settings, to figure out the exact size of the TV.
This would mathematically allow for a true 1 to 1 pointer to aim result, without using any configuration guessing like the options in Crossbow training.
If this Gun Con has you putting the LEDs on the corners, I'd be inclined to believe that it is more accurate than the Wii remote, at least as it pertains to 1 to 1 aim to target on the screen.
So basically what you are saying is there is nothing from stopping a 3rd party developer from just making a new type of sensor bar doing what you just suggested to get more accuracy.
Or even Nintendo making a new sensor bar to help accuracy. They could even do a firmware update and allow you to choose which sensor bar you have, and it would then be retroactive to work with all games...so again the Wiimote still has the most potential, for accuracy.
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 01, 2007, 05:13:10 AM
You could get around it in programming by simply telling the game what size TV you have.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Kairon on December 01, 2007, 06:38:47 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Smash_Brother You could get around it in programming by simply telling the game what size TV you have.
But the limitation is whether the IR camera in the Wiimote or otherwise can see the IR emitters. If the emitters aren't in the field of view of the camera, the entire scheme breaks down. The wiimote, for example, has a relatively small window of vision when just 4 feet away from the TV in my dorm room, preventing me from using Ghost Squad's calibration option because I'm just not far enough to see the IR signals when I'm pointing at some of my TV's corners.
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: mantidor on December 01, 2007, 07:45:48 AM
The real question is what advantages could a more accurate pointer bring to a game, if I'm understanding this correctly and by "accuracy" they mean "1:1 pointing controls" which is completly unnecesary, no game is going to play better because of that, you just adjust the motion of your hand to the relative motion of the pointer, is the same thing with a mouse, you don't need a mouse pad the exact same size as your screen, the whole thing just sounds stupid.
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: KDR_11k on December 01, 2007, 07:55:14 AM
The point would be that you wouldn't get a cursor and instead would have to judge yourself how the thing is aimed.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: ThePerm on December 04, 2007, 02:46:00 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Smash_Brother You could get around it in programming by simply telling the game what size TV you have.
Smash bros beat me to it, just putthe sensor inthe middle, tell the game how big the tv is then all it has to do is virtually simulate extra points
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Kairon on December 04, 2007, 04:36:49 AM
Quote Originally posted by: ThePerm
Quote Originally posted by: Smash_Brother You could get around it in programming by simply telling the game what size TV you have.
Smash bros beat me to it, just putthe sensor inthe middle, tell the game how big the tv is then all it has to do is virtually simulate extra points
You STILL have the problem of when the wiimote or IR camera can't see the sensor bar. Who cares if the screen is so big if the wiimote can't see the sensor bar to orient itself when pointing at the corner?
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on December 04, 2007, 05:03:41 AM
You just sit too close for the size TV you have, Kairon. I once did the math based on Nintendo's early claims of 100" screens and 5 m range, and if I remember it right, I came up with a field of view of about 30 degrees.
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Kairon on December 04, 2007, 05:23:39 AM
I have no choice... I'm in a dorm room! lol.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 04, 2007, 05:59:38 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Kairon I have no choice... I'm in a dorm room! lol.
Well you can drop out of college.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Dirk Temporo on December 05, 2007, 04:14:54 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis The PlayStation 3 will be able to recognize the tilt of the Guncon 3, its distance from the monitor, and these things cannot be done with the Wii system.
YEAH THE WII REMOTE SURE CAN'T DO THAT, CAN IT GUYS?
What is this guy on?
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: DAaaMan64 on December 05, 2007, 01:00:32 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Quote Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis The PlayStation 3 will be able to recognize the tilt of the Guncon 3, its distance from the monitor, and these things cannot be done with the Wii system.
YEAH THE WII REMOTE SURE CAN'T DO THAT, CAN IT GUYS?
What is this guy on?
LOL, wow thats pretty bad. Send this guy a kick in the balls for christmas.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: EasyCure on December 06, 2007, 07:11:26 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Quote Originally posted by: Kairon I have no choice... I'm in a dorm room! lol.
Well you can drop out of college.
he has a point. a Wii Degree is much more important
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 06, 2007, 07:18:54 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Kairon But the limitation is whether the IR camera in the Wiimote or otherwise can see the IR emitters. If the emitters aren't in the field of view of the camera, the entire scheme breaks down. The wiimote, for example, has a relatively small window of vision when just 4 feet away from the TV in my dorm room, preventing me from using Ghost Squad's calibration option because I'm just not far enough to see the IR signals when I'm pointing at some of my TV's corners.
While that's true, you're not supposed to be that close to the TV because it's bad for your eyes...
Title: RE: Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: KDR_11k on December 06, 2007, 08:33:10 PM
PC monitors have a suggested distance of 1m.
Title: RE:Apparently the Guncon 3 is more accurate than the Wii remote LULZ
Post by: Ceric on December 07, 2007, 01:20:33 PM
Ideally the more unique points of reference you have the better. I'm sure you could up the accuracy and useable range of the Wiimote if say you have a different frequency IR Emitter at each corner of you screen. Effectively giving it a bounded box.
A good way of thinking about this is to look at your TV. Now look at the Wiimote bar. Imagine that the room just went dark, you can actually see the light emitted from the sensor bar, and you where trying to define the shape of the TV from just those two points of light. Hard isn't it. Now lets say that instead of the 2 sensor bar lights that instead you have 4 points emitting light. One for each corner. It's now much easier to define the TV's shape and dimension. Imagine that the lights suddenly went dark again but you could only see 2 of those points of light and someone asks you what edge that those two points represent. It be hard to know with just that information. If say instead each of the light points had its own unique color, you could now for a fact that those points you see represent to top edge of the TV.
