The game opens with a brief (and very entertaining) storyboard explaining the events of Wind Waker and follows it up with a cinematic scene detailing Tetra’s kidnapping by an evil ghost pirate ship (I’m really not spoiling anything, folks). Link leaps overboard to save her, but he ends up in the briny depths, only to be rescued by a fairy named Navi… I mean, Ciela. Upon speaking with Ciela’s grandpa, Link learns that the ghost ship kidnaps people on a fairly usual basis, and if he wants to rescue his friend, Link must find the guardians of Power, Wisdom, and Courage. It's sort of like every Zelda game since Link to the Past. Our hero sets out with Ciela in tow and a questionable sea captain named Linebeck, who charters Link from island to island. Although a bit too talkative, Linebeck has his moments and eventually proves useful in your journey.
As you may have heard, Phantom Hourglass has a unique control scheme which depends entirely on your skills with the stylus. Hold the stylus on the screen in the direction you want Link to run. Tap enemies or make a horizontal line to make Link attack with his sword. Draw a circle around Link to do a spin attack. Trace the path of your boomerang, set a course for your boat, aim bombs, rocks, and arrows…it’s all done with the stylus. The only button you’ll ever press is B, and that’s to quickly bring the map screen down for you to write on. This is one of the best aspects of the game, in fact: writing on your map. You can take notes, point to important locations, and just plain scribble all over your maps. In one memorable instance, you’ll have to trace the outline of an unmapped island, then mark the locations of four Gossip Stones to solve a riddle.
Unfortunately, the stylus control takes some serious getting-used-to for Zelda veterans. Any kind of D-pad control scheme (even one for left handers using the ABXY buttons) is absent, and while Nintendo’s goal was to make the process more streamlined and intuitive, I never forgot that I was holding a stylus, dragging and tapping it on the screen like a monkey to make Link move. Using items is a chore, for example, because you must first tap "Items," then tap the item you want, then tap the item window, the use the item. God forbid you should have to switch items in the middle of a fight. Furthermore, because I can’t draw a straight line to save my life (with a tiny stylus, anyway), my ship and boomerang routes often look more like desperate squiggles than methodic attempts. I certainly appreciate what Nintendo is trying to do, but in practice the control scheme is a little awkward. I must praise the amount of experimentation in Phantom Hourglass, though. You’ll be "stamping" your map by closing your DS, yelling at a shopkeeper, blowing out candles, and using the top screen to see what your enemy sees. It’s a shame that none of these unique applications are used more than once or twice, but there’s always something new to try, and Phantom Hourglass goes out of its way to demonstrate the unique gameplay possibilities afforded by the DS.
The much-lauded (or laughed-at) Wind Waker aesthetic is in full effect for Phantom Hourglass, albeit in a low-res sort of way. The game really is in 3D, though, and it’s good-looking 3D. Characters are just as expressive as they are in Wind Waker, and the primary colors and simplistic texturing are still there. Looks aside, however, Phantom Hourglass is an entirely different game. This is both good and bad. I was worried, frankly, that Nintendo would somehow bring Ganon back into the game, even though he’d been stabbed in the head and turned to stone by Link just before the beginning of this game. And if not Ganon, we’d get Vaati, that awkward fill-in villain whose ties to the greater series continuity have always been in question. Instead, we get a brand new storyline featuring a brand new antagonist, which is a huge plus. Sadly, though, after the game’s opening sequence, there are no plotline or character ties to Wind Waker. Phantom Hourglass lacks the mythos of Wind Waker, and it can’t decide whether it wants to be an entirely separate game or not.
Phantom Hourglass’s gameplay flow also mimics that of Twilight Princess more so than Wind Waker. This DS game is basically a dungeon crawler, and trips to other islands exist only so you can learn about where the next dungeon is. Sure, there are some token "new islands" to discover, but their contents are rarely very exciting. I greatly enjoyed the freedom offered by Wind Waker. If I wanted to, I could forego the main quest for days and explore instead, completing my map of the Great Sea, finding neat stuff on interesting islands…you get the idea. Phantom Hourglass, however, does not meet that need. Instead, island-hopping is a practical matter. The weather conditions never change, the sea never swells, and you’ll rarely see another ship anywhere. I’m sure this is due to hardware limitations, but I really miss that aspect of Wind Waker.
Even Twilight Princess fans, though, will be groaning in agony about the Temple of the Sea King, a horrendous chore of a dungeon which I’ll have to use some apt comparisons to illustrate. Remember how, in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, you were often asked to travel to Dark Aether? It had an acidic atmosphere that constantly drained your health, and to survive, you had to travel between safe zones, where your health would slowly go back up. But Dark Aether was never fun (until much later in the game). Well, imagine a Zelda dungeon like that, with typical dungeon puzzles. Now add invincible guards who wander the halls and have a Metal Gear Solid-like vision cone. If you’re seen by a guard, you usually die (unless you can get to a safe zone). Also, and this is the kicker, there’s a timer. Yes, a timer. When that timer runs out, your health begins to plummet. Oh, and I forgot to mention that you’ll have to traverse this dungeon several different times. In fact, each time you complete an overworld dungeon, you will have to go back to the Temple of the Ocean King and start from the very beginning, with all the puzzles reset, and a little bit more time in the hourglass (this gets a tad less severe later in the game), and go farther into the dungeon. After every overworld boss, you gain access to a new basement level, the theory being that you’ll eventually confront the game’s final boss. The fact that you don’t get to start from where you left off is mind-boggling. Why Nintendo would make the horrifying decision to make players dredge through the whole freaking dungeon multiple times is beyond me. Is artificially lengthening the game their goal? Why not just put more islands on the map, or resort to that tired old light/dark world mechanic? I should mention here that Nintendo stripped a lot of Zelda mainstays from the game, including Heart Pieces, the dungeon compass, and wallet upgrades. These are all welcome changes (except the Heart Pieces), but the Temple of the Ocean King is beyond ridiculous.
I guess I should mention the two-player Wi-Fi game. No, it’s not Four Swords. Instead, it’s a mini-game that mimics the Temple of the Ocean King! Need I go on? One player is Link, who tries to collect Force Gems and sneak past the other player, who is a Phantom (one of the giant invincible guards). The multiplayer does have the advantage of being single-card downloadable, but other DS games have much stronger Wi-Fi outings, chief among them Metroid Prime: Hunters and Mario Kart DS. By comparison to those meaty offerings, the multiplayer component of Phantom Hourglass seems like a tagged-on feature.
It’s obvious that Nintendo has tailored Phantom Hourglass to a more casual, less Zelda-familiar audience. From the touch screen controls to the lack of connection with Wind Waker and the strip-mining of traditional Zelda items, you need not be a Zelda vet to enjoy Phantom Hourglass. At the same time, though, it becomes difficult to fully enjoy Phantom Hourglass if you are a Zelda vet. The lack of even an option for D-pad control tells me that Nintendo did not have their Zelda fan base in mind when they were creating Phantom Hourglass. And that’s okay, I guess. It’s still a decent game, but it’s also a game apart from the rest of the series. It just feels different, and I think it demonstrates that Nintendo is reluctant to sail into the murky waters beyond Wind Waker. The end of that game left a lot of possibilities open, but the path taken by Phantom Hourglass is, in all honesty, lame. Try not to think of Phantom Hourglass as a direct sequel to Wind Waker, and perhaps instead as a sort of pseudo-sequel, like Majora’s Mask was to Ocarina of Time. Then you might enjoy it more. Me? I am just sad to see so many great characters and gameplay mechanics left at the docks while Nintendo sailed into more casual waters.
Pros:
Lastability: 6.0
Frankly, I never want to suffer through the Temple of the Ocean King again, so unless there’s some incredible unlockable feature that lets me bypass it in subsequent playthroughs, I do not see myself playing Phantom Hourglass again after I initially beat it. I’ll just play Wind Waker instead.
Final: 7.5
For a game that claims to be a sequel to the greatest Zelda story ever told, Phantom Hourglass retains very few of the features that made its predecessor so memorable. Nintendo just made some bizarre choices with this game, many of which will turn off Zelda loyalists like me. It’s a good game, but it’s just far too different from traditional Zelda games to warrant the same praise as its peers.
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
[inflammatory]This is the score NSMB should've got![/inflammatory]
Quote
Using items is a chore, for example, because you must first tap "Items," then tap the item you want, then tap the item window, the use the item.
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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
[inflammatory]This is the score NSMB should've got![/inflammatory]
And it got 7 more points then Alien Syndrome should have gotten!
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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Your hand must be huge, and this is coming from a guy who has really big hands...|
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
urgh... did you have to mention the temple by name? warn of spoilers the next time, now I will be predisposed when I get there, you should've just said one dungeon was problematic instead of pinpointing it by name.
And no Zelda ever has had a "strong" connection with any previous iteration, not even MM, a completely direct sequel to OoT, the game barely mentions the princess and thats it, so I have no idea where this complain comes from.
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Oh and I agree that having your hand in the way sucks for any game but that's the problem with touchscreens in general. A mouse (or the Wii Remote I guess) is a WAY better way to do that sort of thing but obviously Nintendo can't do that with a portable.
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Your hand must be huge, and this is coming from a guy who has really big hands...|
I'm sorry but hand size has nothing to do with it, you are still putting your hand in front of a small screen with a stylus. Games like SM64DS avoided this by having you control with the bottom screen and have the action on the top, it hurts your interaction with the game. Then again if you are blinded by Zelda Barebones Hourglass you wouldn't be able to see these flaws.
Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Your hand must be huge, and this is coming from a guy who has really big hands...|
I'm sorry but hand size has nothing to do with it, you are still putting your hand in front of a small screen with a stylus. Games like SM64DS avoided this by having you control with the bottom screen and have the action on the top, it hurts your interaction with the game. Then again if you are blinded by Zelda Barebones Hourglass you wouldn't be able to see these flaws.
The controls in Phantom Hourglass are much better than the controls in SM64DS.
If your hand is blocking the view, get a longer stylus. That's what I did for EBA.
Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Your hand must be huge, and this is coming from a guy who has really big hands...|
I'm sorry but hand size has nothing to do with it, you are still putting your hand in front of a small screen with a stylus. Games like SM64DS avoided this by having you control with the bottom screen and have the action on the top, it hurts your interaction with the game. Then again if you are blinded by Zelda Barebones Hourglass you wouldn't be able to see these flaws.
The controls in Phantom Hourglass are much better than the controls in SM64DS.
If your hand is blocking the view, get a longer stylus. That's what I did for EBA.
Quote
Exactly. EBA was *way* more dependent on seeing the entire touch screen at once and I never heard anyone complain about hands blocking the field of view.
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Exactly. EBA was *way* more dependent on seeing the entire touch screen at once and I never heard anyone complain about hands blocking the field of view.
There were a FEW instances on the harder levels where my hand blocked some of the upcoming circles to touch but nothing that made me go bonkers =) <3 EBA
Oh and GP, I HIGHLY recommend you get EBA. It's still the only DS game that makes me feel DS warranted a purchase.
Quote
How do people feel that this game compares to Kirby's Canvas Curse? I think that they both face similar issues (drastic departure from traditional control schemes, while trying to remain true to an established franchise)... I think that Kirby did it well, and this new Zelda does even better... so for those of you who dislike PH, did you also dislike KCC? Is PH "worse"?
Quote
Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis
I don't like this review it felt like there is a lot of whining and a lot of inaccuracies and like how other readers said SPOILERS and spoilers are a big no no in reviews. I think this is a fantastic game with a few issues but this game does not deserve to be lower a 9.0 or a 8.5 . This game pushes the DS to crazy levels and its one of the most impressive games ever made on the DS, the only game that could probably challenge this game will probably be Ninja Gaiden since like Zelda its a touch screen only affair and both look graphically impressive on hardware where 3D rendering is obviously not its forte.
Can anyone hear tell me what other DS game pushed the hardware technically and control implementation wise? Also in a age even in the "next generation" where we are supposed to experience new and impressive things, and yet all we see are sequels, boring generic shooters, the color brown except in HIGH DEFINITION. I personally applaud Nintendo in taking one of their core franchises and taking a risk with it and ultimately succeeding in making it a wonderful experience thats very polished and implementing clever.
I'm sorry but I think this reviewer has dropped the bar and I think NWR's quality in reviews are greatly depreciating which is a shame since I usually think that this site has strong reviews that justifies why the game earned the score but I don't see the justification in this review.
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Originally posted by: Maverick
You're not suggesting that PH is Zelda slapped over a gimmicky interface are you?
Quote
Originally posted by: optimisticlimbo
I didn't feel the review actually looked at the game, rather looked at what it wasn't compared to it's predecessor. I agree with Lord_die_seis that this review doesn't live up to the standard that NWR reviews usually hold. I think a 7.5 is low, but I would rather see a re-review of the game that focuses more on the game and either removes or warns of spoilers, rather than to inflate the score beyond how Zach feels about it.
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: optimisticlimbo
I didn't feel the review actually looked at the game, rather looked at what it wasn't compared to it's predecessor. I agree with Lord_die_seis that this review doesn't live up to the standard that NWR reviews usually hold. I think a 7.5 is low, but I would rather see a re-review of the game that focuses more on the game and either removes or warns of spoilers, rather than to inflate the score beyond how Zach feels about it.
Perhaps the game shouldn't have advertised itself as the sequel to Wind Waker, in the same setting. When a game does that it deserves scrutiny compared to its predecessor. What has made the Zelda series so unique is that each game was virtually stand alone in some way. yeah you "sequels" but they took place in a different setting or in a new time. PH tries to be Wind Waker 2 for DS, so yes the comparisons are justified. Now if it followed tradition and took place in a completely different setting, almost a stand alone tale, then I could say how comparing it to Wind Waker would be weak. As it stands now it plays like a dumbed down hand held version of Wind Waker.
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Originally posted by: Maverick
Zelda direct sequels never mean much more than that it's the same Link immediately after the events of the previous game. I wasn't expecting Wind Waker 2.0, just the Wind Waker Link in a new adventure.
Quote
Why Nintendo would make the horrifying decision to make players dredge through the whole freaking dungeon multiple times is beyond me.
Quote
If you’re seen by a guard, you usually die
Quote
Originally posted by: UrkelQuote
If you’re seen by a guard, you usually die
If by "die" you mean "lose 30 seconds or so".
QuoteYou haven't even played the game.
Originally posted by: Kairon
[inflammatory]This is the score NSMB should've got![/inflammatory]
Quote
Originally posted by: NewsBot
It's like Wind Waker without all the stuff that made Wind Waker so awesome.
<a href=/reviewArt.cfm?artid=14526>http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/reviewArt.cfm?artid=14526[/url]
There are two kinds of Zelda fans in the world. There are those who appreciate the series for the exploration aspect. These people enjoy overturning the overworld, searching for Heart Pieces, secret holes, mini-games, and interesting characters. I include myself in this category, and we tend to think that Wind Waker is the greatest Zelda story ever told. And then there are the dungeon-crawlers, who find overworld shenanigans a tireless chore to the real meat and potatoes of the game: dungeons. These people seem to like Twilight Princess the best (yeah, I’m using modern examples). Personally, I couldn’t stand Twilight Princess for reasons I won’t go into here. Wind Waker, however, is in my Top 3. It’s my favorite video game in recent years. I still tool around with my original save file to this day, searching for that ever-out-of-reach final Heart Piece. Anyway, when I heard that Nintendo was crafting a sequel to Wind Waker on the DS, I was overjoyed. I was bouncing off the walls when my NWR colleagues recruited me to review the game. I received the game two days ago, and have been furiously playing it ever since. And I’ve got something to tell both the explorers and dungeon-crawlers among you: this ain’t the Zelda you know and love.
Quote
Unfortunately, the stylus control takes some serious getting-used-to for Zelda veterans. Any kind of D-pad control scheme (even one for left handers using the ABXY buttons) is absent, and while Nintendo’s goal was to make the process more streamlined and intuitive, I never forgot that I was holding a stylus, dragging and tapping it on the screen like a monkey to make Link move. Using items is a chore, for example, because you must first tap "Items," then tap the item you want, then tap the item window, the use the item. God forbid you should have to switch items in the middle of a fight. Furthermore, because I can’t draw a straight line to save my life (with a tiny stylus, anyway), my ship and boomerang routes often look more like desperate squiggles than methodic attempts. I certainly appreciate what Nintendo is trying to do, but in practice the control scheme is a little awkward. I must praise the amount of experimentation in Phantom Hourglass, though. You’ll be "stamping" your map by closing your DS, yelling at a shopkeeper, blowing out candles, and using the top screen to see what your enemy sees. It’s a shame that none of these unique applications are used more than once or twice, but there’s always something new to try, and Phantom Hourglass goes out of its way to demonstrate the unique gameplay possibilities afforded by the DS.
Quote
The much-lauded (or laughed-at) Wind Waker aesthetic is in full effect for Phantom Hourglass, albeit in a low-res sort of way. The game really is in 3D, though, and it’s good-looking 3D. Characters are just as expressive as they are in Wind Waker, and the primary colors and simplistic texturing are still there. Looks aside, however, Phantom Hourglass is an entirely different game. This is both good and bad. I was worried, frankly, that Nintendo would somehow bring Ganon back into the game, even though he’d been stabbed in the head and turned to stone by Link just before the beginning of this game. And if not Ganon, we’d get Vaati, that awkward fill-in villain whose ties to the greater series continuity have always been in question. Instead, we get a brand new storyline featuring a brand new antagonist, which is a huge plus. Sadly, though, after the game’s opening sequence, there are no plotline or character ties to Wind Waker. Phantom Hourglass lacks the mythos of Wind Waker, and it can’t decide whether it wants to be an entirely separate game or not.
Quote
Phantom Hourglass’s gameplay flow also mimics that of Twilight Princess more so than Wind Waker. This DS game is basically a dungeon crawler, and trips to other islands exist only so you can learn about where the next dungeon is. Sure, there are some token "new islands" to discover, but their contents are rarely very exciting. I greatly enjoyed the freedom offered by Wind Waker. If I wanted to, I could forego the main quest for days and explore instead, completing my map of the Great Sea, finding neat stuff on interesting islands…you get the idea. Phantom Hourglass, however, does not meet that need. Instead, island-hopping is a practical matter. The weather conditions never change, the sea never swells, and you’ll rarely see another ship anywhere. I’m sure this is due to hardware limitations, but I really miss that aspect of Wind Waker.
Quote
Even Twilight Princess fans, though, will be groaning in agony about the Temple of the Sea King, a horrendous chore of a dungeon which I’ll have to use some apt comparisons to illustrate. Remember how, in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, you were often asked to travel to Dark Aether? It had an acidic atmosphere that constantly drained your health, and to survive, you had to travel between safe zones, where your health would slowly go back up. But Dark Aether was never fun (until much later in the game). Well, imagine a Zelda dungeon like that, with typical dungeon puzzles. Now add invincible guards who wander the halls and have a Metal Gear Solid-like vision cone. If you’re seen by a guard, you usually die (unless you can get to a safe zone). Also, and this is the kicker, there’s a timer. Yes, a timer. When that timer runs out, your health begins to plummet. Oh, and I forgot to mention that you’ll have to traverse this dungeon several different times. In fact, each time you complete an overworld dungeon, you will have to go back to the Temple of the Ocean King and start from the very beginning, with all the puzzles reset, and a little bit more time in the hourglass (this gets a tad less severe later in the game), and go farther into the dungeon. After every overworld boss, you gain access to a new basement level, the theory being that you’ll eventually confront the game’s final boss. The fact that you don’t get to start from where you left off is mind-boggling. Why Nintendo would make the horrifying decision to make players dredge through the whole freaking dungeon multiple times is beyond me. Is artificially lengthening the game their goal? Why not just put more islands on the map, or resort to that tired old light/dark world mechanic? I should mention here that Nintendo stripped a lot of Zelda mainstays from the game, including Heart Pieces, the dungeon compass, and wallet upgrades. These are all welcome changes (except the Heart Pieces), but the Temple of the Ocean King is beyond ridiculous.
Quote
I guess I should mention the two-player Wi-Fi game. No, it’s not Four Swords. Instead, it’s a mini-game that mimics the Temple of the Ocean King! Need I go on? One player is Link, who tries to collect Force Gems and sneak past the other player, who is a Phantom (one of the giant invincible guards). The multiplayer does have the advantage of being single-card downloadable, but other DS games have much stronger Wi-Fi outings, chief among them Metroid Prime: Hunters and Mario Kart DS. By comparison to those meaty offerings, the multiplayer component of Phantom Hourglass seems like a tagged-on feature.
Quote
It’s obvious that Nintendo has tailored Phantom Hourglass to a more casual, less Zelda-familiar audience. From the touch screen controls to the lack of connection with Wind Waker and the strip-mining of traditional Zelda items, you need not be a Zelda vet to enjoy Phantom Hourglass. At the same time, though, it becomes difficult to fully enjoy Phantom Hourglass if you are a Zelda vet. The lack of even an option for D-pad control tells me that Nintendo did not have their Zelda fan base in mind when they were creating Phantom Hourglass. And that’s okay, I guess. It’s still a decent game, but it’s also a game apart from the rest of the series. It just feels different, and I think it demonstrates that Nintendo is reluctant to sail into the murky waters beyond Wind Waker. The end of that game left a lot of possibilities open, but the path taken by Phantom Hourglass is, in all honesty, lame. Try not to think of Phantom Hourglass as a direct sequel to Wind Waker, and perhaps instead as a sort of pseudo-sequel, like Majora’s Mask was to Ocarina of Time. Then you might enjoy it more. Me? I am just sad to see so many great characters and gameplay mechanics left at the docks while Nintendo sailed into more casual waters.
QuoteWasn't that Custom Robo?
The only review I can remember that was more pointless was Deg's review of Chibi Robo DS: "It's just like the first one.
Quote
Originally posted by: Michael8983
I think the timed dungeon and the new controls will grow on people over time.
I mean a lot of people didn't take to Majora's Mask right away with its time limit and non-traditional storyline. Then there was the Wind Waker thing that needs no explanation. Also the Wii-mote controls in Twilight Princess. All three of these Zelda games featured deviations that were unsettling at first but MOST people eventually got used to them.
There are still a few people that think Majora's Mask was an unnessesary spin-off, hate cel-shaded Link, and prefer the Gamecube version of TP. But these people are the minority as far as I can tell.
The problem with writing reviews for newly released games is that you're pressured to finish them as fast as possible to get your review out in a respectable amount of time. That can taint the experience, especially with a unique title like this. The reviewer may blast through the title so fast, not giving himself time to become comfortable with the controls and enjoy the experience. Allowing moderately frustrating moments to become intolerable. Not giving the proper time to allow whatever pre-judgments he made on the game to fade.
Quote
In conclusion, Phantom Hourglass is Wind Waker's Majora. Now where's my TP's Majora?
Quote
Originally posted by: theJKA
To base the value of gameplay on one dungeon and the fact that you don't like dungeon crawling. the review was written with your dislike in mind, as you can't stop talking about it. Reviews should be about how much the average gamer would enjoy it, not your personal preferences. And as a sequel to Wind Waker, the game should stand on its own merits rather than be judged as such, as there are a variety of factors to consider (different system, less power and memory, control scheme etc). Overall this review was not very fair, biased, and not to the standards of NWR's reviews.
Quote
Originally posted by: Maverick
Well one thing is for sure, I definitely suck at the arrow shooting mini-game. I spent well over 1000 rupees to beat it (2000 points), but at least I had fun while I was losing horribly!
QuoteYeah you're right, my mistake.
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteWasn't that Custom Robo?
The only review I can remember that was more pointless was Deg's review of Chibi Robo DS: "It's just like the first one.
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
another thing, isnt the argument of being dumbed down for casuals contradicting with a supposedly difficult dungeon? that simply doesn't make any sense to me, at all.
Quote
Originally posted by: BloodworthQuote
Originally posted by: Maverick
Well one thing is for sure, I definitely suck at the arrow shooting mini-game. I spent well over 1000 rupees to beat it (2000 points), but at least I had fun while I was losing horribly!
I did the same thing. That game forces you to perfect your skills. I don't think it's possible to get 2000 if you make even one mistake. Cool that you get so many ship parts from it though.
Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
another thing, isnt the argument of being dumbed down for casuals contradicting with a supposedly difficult dungeon? that simply doesn't make any sense to me, at all.
I think they're calling that dungeon tedious, rather than challenging. Not entirely contradictory.
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
another thing, isnt the argument of being dumbed down for casuals contradicting with a supposedly difficult dungeon? that simply doesn't make any sense to me, at all.
I think they're calling that dungeon tedious, rather than challenging. Not entirely contradictory.
oh I see, it isn't that different actually, tediousness is a staple of "hardcore" gaming, just look at any turn based j-rpg to start :P. Brain training, just to name a "non-game", is in the exact opposite of the spectrum.
Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
another thing, isnt the argument of being dumbed down for casuals contradicting with a supposedly difficult dungeon? that simply doesn't make any sense to me, at all.
I think they're calling that dungeon tedious, rather than challenging. Not entirely contradictory.
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
another thing, isnt the argument of being dumbed down for casuals contradicting with a supposedly difficult dungeon? that simply doesn't make any sense to me, at all.
I think they're calling that dungeon tedious, rather than challenging. Not entirely contradictory.
Just like every dungeon ever in a Zelda game. Time to chuck them out
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
another thing, isnt the argument of being dumbed down for casuals contradicting with a supposedly difficult dungeon? that simply doesn't make any sense to me, at all.
I think they're calling that dungeon tedious, rather than challenging. Not entirely contradictory.
oh I see, it isn't that different actually, tediousness is a staple of "hardcore" gaming, just look at any turn based j-rpg to start :P. Brain training, just to name a "non-game", is in the exact opposite of the spectrum.
Actually tedious is not a hardcore staple, alot of the "casual" or "kid" games have tedious collecting or tedious gameplay that doesn't hold your interest (Button mashing for one), so you are quite mistaken.
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
I don't think anyone would argue that tediousness is a virtue of either casual or hardcore games.
Quote
Tell that to Mashiro.
Quote
Did you just say Pokemon wasn't hardcore?
Quote
Compare this to fighting off all the little monsters in a Zelda game, which reappear almost immediately and do not help your character to grow in any way. That kind of stuff I find extremely tedious. I wish Zelda games didn't have monsters out in the field; I always end up running away from them anyway because it's not worth my time to kill them.
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
You know, this review put me on the edge of not buying. Some people say the phantoms aren't an issue while I see noone in support of the review's position (GP doesn't count). Can I take that to mean the stealth sections are insignificant?
Quote
Originally posted by: optimisticlimbo
The thing is, there's no real stealth to be seen. The phantoms can be run from, and there are always safe zones to run to. I've actually used strategy of timing where the phantoms are to run past them. The risk of being caught isn't so great that you live in fear of them.
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
As Nintendo fans we have to finally come to terms with the fact that Nintendo will NEVER give the smallest ammount of care for continuity in their games, be it mario, zelda or metroid.
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
You know, this review put me on the edge of not buying. Some people say the phantoms aren't an issue while I see noone in support of the review's position (GP doesn't count). Can I take that to mean the stealth sections are insignificant?
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Tell that to Mashiro.
Wait. what? Why tell me? I just listed some casual games that had tedious qualities to them. I didn't say it belonged to one or the other.
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Originally posted by: Kairon
I recommend anyone on the fence to wait for Kairon's definitive review of the game before making any hasty decisions that they may regret in the future!
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Originally posted by: Caliban
Kairon, I read your post many times before I understood what you meant; but that is so true, what you said, it's like SEGA lost all their talented employees and now all we get is sh!t or nothing unless it's developed by a 3rd party for the SEGA brand, hopefully that won't happen to Nintendo, at least in the coming 20 years.
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Being the Thanksgiving holiday in Canada I was bored and decided to get this game. It's really good and like five hours have gone by like nothing. There's just one problem. The controls SUCK. I don't mind using the stylus for the boomerang and marking on the map. Stuff like that is fun. But MOVING? Why the hell did they think that moving with the stylus was a good idea?
Easy stuff like dodging rows of fire is a big pain in the butt now. Swinging your sword is guess work. Want to walk past the bomb flower? Sorry you'll swing your sword into it causing it to explode in your face. Want to swing your sword? Well maybe you'll walk instead. Who knows?
The d-pad or buttons are right there and SHOULD have been used as movement. Then if they assigned R and L to your sword the game would control much better and allow for both righties and lefties. But instead what I would consider an A game is only a B because the controls suck. Hidden in here is a good Zelda game with clever use of the touchscreen but because Nintendo has to base their control setups on forcing their new ideas on us, instead of using what's best for each scenario, they blew it. Figures. Tinker with the controls a bit and this does for the touchscreen what Metroid Prime 3 does for the remote. But the execution they chose comes across as g!mmicky which is a shame because there are some really cool ideas in here.
Imagine if Nintendo forced Retro is only use the remote and not the nunchuk and you'll get an idea of what Phantom Hourglass plays like. If you like Zelda you'll probably like it but you have to be willing to deal with the controls. It's a bizarre combination of clever touchscreen usage and forced touchscreen usage. Best and worst use of the touchscreen ever.
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I don't want "I think it's fine" I want to hear a reason why the touchscreen HAD to be used for moving. Or how about a reason why the OPTION of the d-pad should not have been made available?
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Originally posted by: jakeOSX
so, i am not read all posts
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What's bugged me so far is that I'm supposed to make noise into the mic. I'm sorry, this is a portable system. I'm usually not playing it at home. So I'm supposed to yell into a microphone in public?
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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
GP, you don't count because you're just trolling anyway. You just talk bad about random games to annoy people. Your comments are not related to the quality of the game at all
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Originally posted by: KDR_11kQuote
What's bugged me so far is that I'm supposed to make noise into the mic. I'm sorry, this is a portable system. I'm usually not playing it at home. So I'm supposed to yell into a microphone in public?
I agree with this, mic use makes a game unplayable in public. I think portable games may need a portability score which would include things like distance between save possibilities (or progress possible within short play sessions), microphone use and any hardware gimmicks like Boktai's solar sensor.
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Originally posted by: decoyman
Here are some of my thoughts on the game, in a handy "Strengths/Weaknesses" list format!
Strengths...
1. Stylus control (when employing the shortcuts) is streamlined and AWESOME. When I first started, I had an issue with my hand being in the way sometimes, but I've gotten over that since.
2. Graphics are similarly AWESOME. This game is pushin' the polys hard (both screens, as someone said), and the same style which won (nearly) everyone over in WW is back in full force here. Excellent art direction and technical execution.
3. Memorable characters. I don't get the complaint about this. I can list off over a dozen totally memorable and hilarious characters. Don't make me do it, because I will!
4. HARDCORE GAMEPLAY OPPORTUNITIES ABOUND. Yes, I'm talking about the Ocean King Temple. This is set up for you to do speed runs, see how fast you can get through, what shortcuts you can find, etc. I'm nearly through the game just got the Phantom Blade or whatever it's called, and I've had a great time trying to improve my time. Plus, there is a HUGELY USEFUL shortcut which allows you to skip like half of the dungeon once you're fast enough, while retaining your time up to that point. If anything, Zach, maybe the problem is that you're not hardcore enough for this game. Besides the OKT (as I will now refer to it), you've got sidequests out the wazoo. There are mini games to play, characters to unite, romantic intrigue to thwart(?!), force gems to find, ship parts to find and customize with, loot to salvage, timed mazes to run, fish to catch... need I go on? With all that, I don't miss heart container pieces one teensy bit. It IS true that this game is made easier with the stylus, but that doesn't mean it's not hardcore. In fact, despite it being made easier, I've died more times in this game than in either TP or WW.
5. Sailing is fun and breaks up the land-based action. I wish the weather/day system from WW was still intact here, but it's a minor thing really. There's a ton to do on the water, and you're rewarded for it with useful items too.
6. This Zelda tries a lot of different things, from sailing to powering up your fairy companions to stylus controls, to new collectibles (force gems, ship parts, ...), to story details no Ganon!, lots of humor (maybe the most in a Zelda game? I've laughed out loud more than once – like when Link goes to hold up the Phantom blade and Oshus just snatches it away as the typical Zelda "pick-up" music starts to play, and Link is just standing there in the pose, looking confused to new uses for familiar items grappling hook tight-rope walking and catapulting, anyone? how 'bout the hammer? to a temporary dungeon companion who can -gasp- attack and fend for himself??? to a new sort of multiplayer. All of these changes – ALL OF THEM – are great and welcome, and serve to freshen the Zelda gameplay/formula.
7. Engaging, creative, and FUN boss battles. But this is a given for a Zelda game. I was recently really impressed with the Ancient Stone Soldier boss battle.
Weaknesses/Quibbles:
1. The compositions are, for the most part, top-notch. However, I've run into more than a few occasions where the songs loop way too quickly/often. I'm thinking, running around outside when there are enemies about, and some dungeons. I wish there was a larger variety of tunes, because what's there is really good.
2. Missed opportunities with regard to the storyline continuity. Like someone else said, this a pretty unique in that it's a direct sequel. However, it would have been immensely cool to see more than just passing references (the intro is great and the Prince of Red Lions, "Want to be my apprentice? Good, your title is 'Half a Hero'" guy is pretty funny). Why not make the pirates show up again somewhere along the line? Even that small thread of continuity would have been welcome.
So! As you might guess, I disagree with many points of the review and its final score. However, I also disagree with the idea of writing a review with the idea of "what the average gamer will think of it." A review is a personal take on the game, and this was Zach's. I hope NWR gets a few more reviews of this game up soon to give a (hopefully) different viewpoint on it. It's unfortunate that Zach didn't have as good a time as many of us are having with it.
For me, I can see me finishing it, and then going back to play it again one day, maybe one day soon. The only other Zelda game I've done that with is WW. I guess it's fitting that the next game I might do that with is WW's sequel.
QuoteI pretty much agree with all of this. Bravo decoyman.
Originally posted by: decoyman
planetidiot: for the yelling parts, just blow in the mic. It doesn't even have to be that loud or windy.
Everybody else who wants stylus controls for certain parts, and d-pad movement for others. A few problems, and why I think they went with just the stylus.
1. Hand Cramps. Everyone complained about hand fatigue w/ MP:H and pretty much any other game which uses both d-pad and touchscreen. With just the stylus, you not only can hold the screen better, but you have access to the buttons for shortcuts to items and map and such.
2. Simplicity and analog. It's not only simpler to assume someone is always going to be using the stylus, but as Urkel said, Analog movement is vital for this game. In a game like this, you need both slow walking and running. No analog, and you have to do something clunky like hold down a button to walk slowly.
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Originally posted by: Halbred
There's no point in defending my review at this point. I've seen almost nothing but seven pages of rampant fanboyism thus far. Just because I don't like this game AS MUCH AS other Zelda games does not mean that NWR's reviews are going down in quality. What does that even mean? You people don't agree with my review and all of a sudden the entire site is in question? Give me a break. You're all acting like I insulted a PERSON by finding fault with this game, and frankly, it makes me sick.
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Originally posted by: IceCold
Metroid Prime 3.
EDIT: Plus Halbred, the generic "rampant fanboyism" response isn't going to cut it, especially since people in this thread have been pretty civil, and they've backed up their points.
QuoteWe do this all the freaking time. (Note: those are four links, not one.) Chill out. Why don't you try to respond to some of the criticism and back up your points rather than take the high-and-mighty stance?
Originally posted by: Halbred
There's no point in defending my review at this point. I've seen almost nothing but seven pages of rampant fanboyism thus far. Just because I don't like this game AS MUCH AS other Zelda games does not mean that NWR's reviews are going down in quality. What does that even mean? You people don't agree with my review and all of a sudden the entire site is in question? Give me a break. You're all acting like I insulted a PERSON by finding fault with this game, and frankly, it makes me sick.
QuoteApril 4, 2007
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
When was the last review posted where EVERYONE said, "Yeah, that's pretty fair. I agree."?
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
When was the last review posted where EVERYONE said, "Yeah, that's pretty fair. I agree."?
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A game's score is a general indication of how good or bad it is compared to other games released for that system at the time
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Phantom Hourglass fails to meet the high standards set by Wind Waker, Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, and, at times, Twilight Princess. And don't blame the technology. Link's Awakening, in my humble opinion, is one of the best Zelda games ever made, and it's an original Game Boy cart. Thusly, I cannot give PH a score as high or higher than any of those games.
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Originally posted by: Halbred
There's no point in defending my review at this point. I've seen almost nothing but seven pages of rampant fanboyism thus far. Just because I don't like this game AS MUCH AS other Zelda games does not mean that NWR's reviews are going down in quality. What does that even mean? You people don't agree with my review and all of a sudden the entire site is in question? Give me a break. You're all acting like I insulted a PERSON by finding fault with this game, and frankly, it makes me sick.
One of the most important aspects of reviewing a game, for me, is to compare that game to its peers. Phantom Hourglass fails to meet the high standards set by Wind Waker, Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, and, at times, Twilight Princess. And don't blame the technology. Link's Awakening, in my humble opinion, is one of the best Zelda games ever made, and it's an original Game Boy cart. Thusly, I cannot give PH a score as high or higher than any of those games. And I honestly did not like the Temple of the Ocean King. And you know, as I read other online reviews, I noticed that a lot of other gaming outlets didn't like it either, so it's not just me. And a lot of other people questioned the lack of D-pad control.
So I'm going to defend my review anymore. Nothing will be gained, and I'm not going to make anybody see the light. I did not like this game. That doesn't mean YOU don't have to. And other NWR staffers will be reviewing it soon, so maybe they'll like it, and you can just go ahead and read the review you want to read instead of mine. You know, the review that validates your point of view.
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Originally posted by: UncleBob
It's not the score of the review that some of us have a problem with - it's how the game seems to be attacked for crazy reasons. "This game isn't like Wind Waker!" is not a good reason to attempt to discredit a game. Unless, of course, we're going to start judging *every* game on how much the game is or isn't like Wind Waker.
So the game's not like Wind Waker. Super Mario 64 wasn't like Super Mario World - should we rag on SM64 because of that? Or just talk about the strengths and faults of SM64 on their own?
Additionally, the tone of the review was pretty unfairly harsh. A sentence such as "I never forgot that I was holding a stylus, dragging and tapping it on the screen like a monkey to make Link move." has no place in a professional review. Perhaps that was the problem - Halbred was too busy playing in feces like a monkey instead of playing the game.
Is this game absolutely perfect? Nope. It's not Link's Awakening. However, as a long time Zelda fan, I honestly would probably rank it higher than Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Maybe even OoT...
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Originally posted by: Maverick
Exactly, PH is to WW as MM was to OOT and LA was to ALTTP. I wasn't expecting anything more from a Zelda "direct sequel". In fact, this actually has a lot in common with LA in some regards.
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Originally posted by: vudu April 4, 2007
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People are very opinionated..myself extremely..but it's not bitching.. more so debating/discussion.
that's what the point about reading a review and talking aobut it is all about. If you do'nt agree with it...you say why not.
QuoteBetter than apathy, don't you think?
Alright, I'm sorry. I may have overreacted. Being one of the new guys, I'm not accustomed to having my review torn to pieces by the masses I write for.
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Originally posted by: UncleBob
"How is MM's gameplay unique compared to OOT? It had the same controls, unless you're referring to to the time limit"
The time limit is one aspect, but the fact that about 1/2 the game is sidequests and the entire transforming into different species thing, all combined with the time limit really made the fundamental game play of Majora's Mask quite different than OoT.
"PH is Wind Waker with touch controls for handheld gamers."
GP, I think this is the basic aspect of your point of view that, in turn, really destroys your entire arguement - Phantom Hourglass is *not* Wind Waker. Face it, we all know Nintendo does not have a problem with re-releasing games on a different platform and making minor (or no) changes to them. And when they do, they pretty much keep the same name (or some variation on it). That's not what Phantom Hourglass is - nor is it what the game was meant to be (as far as I can tell, at least... you know, the entire lack of the game actually having "The Wind Waker" in it could be throwing me off though).
Sometimes I wonder if you're just another one of Super's dupe accounts....
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Originally posted by: cubist
I bought the game when it came out...but my brother the leaching Zelda fan started on it. He and I have the same opinion about Zelda titles and he thinks this is better than both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both. I'm going to play through it myself to rank it. I just hope that this review isn't based on the disagreement with the control scheme...you'd lose all credibility as a reviewer if that's the case.
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Originally posted by: UncleBob
>
>"At least [the Wind Waker] was an interesting item"
What? It was a stick you played music with. It was about as interesting as the weeds you picked in Twilight Princess.
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Originally posted by: cubist
I bought the game when it came out...but my brother the leaching Zelda fan started on it. He and I have the same opinion about Zelda titles and he thinks this is better than both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both. I'm going to play through it myself to rank it. I just hope that this review isn't based on the disagreement with the control scheme...you'd lose all credibility as a reviewer if that's the case.
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Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117Quote
Originally posted by: cubist
I bought the game when it came out...but my brother the leaching Zelda fan started on it. He and I have the same opinion about Zelda titles and he thinks this is better than both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both. I'm going to play through it myself to rank it. I just hope that this review isn't based on the disagreement with the control scheme...you'd lose all credibility as a reviewer if that's the case.
He gave the controls a score of 9.0.
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Originally posted by: Maverick
I DO agree with GP on the Wind Waker being a better item than the Phantom Hourglass. The PH is just a container for the time you collect to travel through the dungeon. The WW was a tool.
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Originally posted by: UncleBob
Whoo! Item of the Century FTW, right there.
Question - which would you rather have, a cheap plastic replica Wind Waker or a cheap plastic replica Phantom Hourglass? (I'd rather have a replica Majora's Mask, personally...)
(...waits for someone to suggest a replica Twilight Princess like a "love doll"...)
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Originally posted by: UncleBob
(...waits for someone to suggest a replica Twilight Princess like a "love doll"...)
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Originally posted by: Kairon
I just got to the Gorons which I guess is past the halfway point... and I have the distinct feeling that this game is awesome. This may be the first Zelda game I actually enjoy completely since OoT, without any moments of game breaking cynicism.