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NWR Interactive => TalkBack => Topic started by: miket on August 09, 2007, 07:21:58 PM

Title: Wii Remote To Be Supported By XNA
Post by: miket on August 09, 2007, 07:21:58 PM
Microsoft’s software development kit allows designers to build games for the Wii Remote.
 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=14206

 Hot on the heels of Microsoft’s announcement that their first party IP Viva Pinata would be making an appearance on DS, the Redmond-based software behemoth demoed an extension for it’s proprietary software development kit, XNA, that adds support for Nintendo’s Wii Remote as an input device.  The extension, which was released in March, is known as Managed Library for Nintendo's Wiimote and was coded by Brian Peek.    


Speaking for Microsoft at a seminar hosted by Assembly, an organization that sponsors seasonal festivals to promote education and networking events for game designers, Chad Z. Hower presented a demo of how to build a game on XNA, which used the Wii Remote as the controller. Hower’s demo was relatively basic, featuring only a simple stick figure to demonstrate the ease of the interface. While XNA can be used to develop software on the Xbox 360 platform, the console's lack of Bluetooth support, which the Wii Remote uses for communication, means that XNA programmers wanting to incorporate Wii Remote support into their games are limited to PC development.    


The veracity of Nintendo’s claim to create a home console where the big idea can win out over the big budget is still up for debate, but few can now argue that the tools are out of reach for someone who wants to give it a try. Which leaves us with one question: anyone have any big ideas?

Title: RE: Wii Remote To Be Supported By XNA
Post by: Caliban on August 09, 2007, 07:42:03 PM
When did Microsoft buy Nintendo.
Title: RE: Wii Remote To Be Supported By XNA
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 08:00:16 PM
Microsoft to rip off wiimote confirmed.
Title: RE: Wii Remote To Be Supported By XNA
Post by: ShyGuy on August 09, 2007, 08:07:55 PM
Nintendo gonna sue somebody?
Title: RE: Wii Remote To Be Supported By XNA
Post by: trip1eX on August 09, 2007, 08:19:06 PM
360 doesn't have Bluetooth.  And who's going to use it on the pc?   Also no sensor bar and who's going to use a makeshift one?  
Title: RE: Wii Remote To Be Supported By XNA
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 08:23:32 PM
But they're definitely gearing up for it.
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: SixthAngel on August 09, 2007, 09:58:45 PM
Its just a pr stunt for them to say we can technically do that too.  Nothing is actually going to come of it.  Lack of xbox owners with wii remotes, NO IR SENSOR, and the fact that this would probably push more xbox owners to the Wii then the other way around.  Who is going to shell out 400 dollars for one simple game if they have a Wii?  I see a better chance, although still slim, of xbox owners who grabbed wii remotes wanting to do more with them since they obviously have the interest in motion control.
Title: RE:Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: bubicus on August 10, 2007, 12:04:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: trip1eX
And who's going to use it on the pc?   Also no sensor bar and who's going to use a makeshift one?


Because anybody willing to develop in XNA could use the Wii remote for programming assignments, educational applications, a multifunction pointing device, a presentation tool, etc. (And, of course, game development or even Wii game prototyping without a Wii SDK.) It's pretty cool to have the option, especially since the required hardware is cheap and usable for fun on a Wii afterward. :-)  It also means that any developer using XNA to develop a PC or Xbox 360 game for, say, the Xbox Live Marketplace can also prototype and test Wii remote control schemes if they decide to create a Wiiware version in the future, and has no real excuses for not trying anymore. From both business and development perspectives for both Nintendo and developers, that's a good thing.

Some of the existing homebrew drivers already support x/y/size detection of bright objects, so most of the IR pointing technology is already supported in homebrew drivers along with a makeshift sensor bar. It's really easy to make one, too. The main barrier to PC development has not been the difficulty of understanding the Wii remote. but has been the difficulty of understanding the geekspeak that the hackers use in their documentation. XNA is (generally speaking) a lot easier to code with than any hacker's library, since a developer can use a lot of streamlined and standardized systems and an environment he or she is already familiar with.

Title: RE:Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 10, 2007, 02:40:09 AM
Can we count the days until Nintendo gives Microsoft a Cease Order?  

One...
Two...
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: Ceric on August 10, 2007, 03:04:24 AM
I think its all in the way that Nintendo set up the terms of use for the Wiimote.  Microsoft isn't making anything with the technology in it and the code to use it with a Microsoft setup was written without looking at Nintendo's own source code so it's fair game.  Bluetooth is an open standard.  If Nintendo wanted to hardcore prevent something like this they would have opted to go the slightly more expensive route of not using Bluetooth.

As mentioned in the long run this could still help Nintendo.  Of course I'm sure they would have something to say if it was incorporated into the 360 but as part of a PC it opens a new peripheral market to them.
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: pSYCO-gAMER321 on August 10, 2007, 03:52:11 AM
This will help out Nintendo, but is it me or Microsoft has been making some strange decisions? I suspect that Nintendo will have a say on this.  
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: Ceric on August 10, 2007, 03:57:00 AM
Its a win for MS.  Because its not cutting into anything on their part.  As of now Windows is the only PC OS that I know with some support of the Wiimote.  If that means a developer will develop more exclusives things for Windows especially for a corporate environment its a win for MS.
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: couchmonkey on August 10, 2007, 06:02:36 AM
This is really cool, I'd check it out if such a game were available to me...

It could be perceived as a threat to Nintendo but as usual, Wii is more than a controller.  It's the whole package and the way the parts of it interact: the name, the size, the look, the internal memory, the price, the interface, Wii Sports.  Not to mention that Nintendo and third parties have been targeting its marketing and games for the Wii audience for nearly a  year.  Microsoft is way behind.

It's too little, too late.  MS is dabbling here and there, but all signs suggest that 360 and PS3 are simply incapable of competing with Wii.  They need a whole new platform.
Title: RE:Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 10, 2007, 08:55:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
As of now Windows is the only PC OS that I know with some support of the Wiimote.


It's not. I use Mac OS X and I have a few little programs that I can hook up to the Wiimote. There are probably more now, I haven't looked around to see if anything new was there in a while.
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: nickmitch on August 10, 2007, 09:03:49 AM
I don't know what's worse, Sony stealing of MS doing this. This is outright hardware jacking. But it does sound pretty neat. I have OS X, so I guess I don't really care anymore.
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: BlkPaladin on August 10, 2007, 09:17:37 PM
You know it is accually good for the smaller developer who are looking into development for WiiWare. XNA is a realitivly simple development solution where you can create a game using C# and DirectX to make a demo to show to Nintendo. (Which is one of the things I talked with Nintendo about last year, and they wanted a demo of software before making any commitment.) And if it is programmed correctly all you have to do is take out the component (classes) that are set up to use DirectX and replace them with simular classes that use the for form of OpenGL that the Wii utilizes without messing with any of the code of the game itself (besides the declarations for the changed classes). And you have a working Wii game.

In programming there is a practice known as extraction where you break up a program into many classes that each do a different job. So in effect you can make a program that you can easily port by extracting out the rendering, sound, networking and input each into a class which depends on DirectX/OpenGl, so there is little to nothing you need to change in the other classes to change them around.

As for the C# I guess the Wii can run games programmed in this language probally because it is derived for C++, because when I was doing an assignment for one of my classes yesterday I was at the Retro Studio's website looking at their job listing and one of the requirements was knowledge of C#.

As for the leagality of it there really shouldn't be any solid grounds for any suit because Microsoft isn't making any money off of this and they are not claiming that this is a Wii development tool just that you can use the Wiimote because it utilizes blutooth and I read up on how the liberaries came into exsistance and they were backwards engineered by looking at what the Wiimote was returning as information and working from there. As I said this makes me somewhat happy.
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: Kairon on August 10, 2007, 09:24:06 PM
Whelp... I guess I better add C# to the list of things I ought to learn.
Title: RE:Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: Athrun Zala on August 11, 2007, 02:39:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Can we count the days until Nintendo gives Microsoft a Cease Order?  

One...
Two...
they can't, simply because all the library does is interpret the information the Wiimote sends through Bluetooth... it's incredibly well written and documented by the way...

and kairon, C# isn't too complex, particularly if you have some experience with Java or a C-variant...
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: Enner on August 12, 2007, 03:27:18 PM
Excellent. Soon, we will be able to control Windows through a WiiMote. Mwa hahaha!
Title: RE:Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: MegaByte on August 12, 2007, 06:39:48 PM
Eh? I've been able to do that practically since launch.  I've given a PowerPoint presentation using a Wiimote before.
Title: RE:Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: MegaByte on August 12, 2007, 06:45:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlkPaladin
You know it is accually good for the smaller developer who are looking into development for WiiWare. XNA is a realitivly simple development solution where you can create a game using C# and DirectX to make a demo to show to Nintendo. (Which is one of the things I talked with Nintendo about last year, and they wanted a demo of software before making any commitment.) And if it is programmed correctly all you have to do is take out the component (classes) that are set up to use DirectX and replace them with simular classes that use the for form of OpenGL that the Wii utilizes without messing with any of the code of the game itself (besides the declarations for the changed classes). And you have a working Wii game.

This doesn't make a lot of sense.  If you were going to go through all that trouble, why not write it in the native language to begin with?  It might make more sense if C# was actually usable on Wii.  I mean, yes, you might be able to make a demo easier, but you'd have to start mostly from scratch to port it to Wii.
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: Kairon on August 12, 2007, 06:57:17 PM
Well, I guess it could be a good proof of concept thing.
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: that Baby guy on August 12, 2007, 07:03:09 PM
If you're too small of a company or developer to buy a devkit, it makes a whole lot of sense.
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: Kairon on August 12, 2007, 07:10:07 PM
but why is MS helping small Wii developers out? I think MS is definitely going to copy the wiimote, sdooner or later.
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: that Baby guy on August 12, 2007, 07:18:23 PM
Of course following generations are going to grasp for the Wii's sudden success in this one using similar methods.  It would be the most idiotic move not to, IMO.  Helping devs get a feel for motion control tech isn't a bad idea if Microsoft wants to wean their newer supporters away from the 360 and up to the Xbox 2600.

On a side note, Microsoft is still trying to act like they aren't in competition with Nintendo.  Additionally, with Wii-Ware on the rise, what tiny dev is going to want to pay for a kit that will not function with any potential hardware.  They need the best bang for their buck, and w/o Wii-mote support, XNA probably wouldn't be the top choice to them.
Title: RE:Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: MegaByte on August 13, 2007, 04:17:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
If you're too small of a company or developer to buy a devkit, it makes a whole lot of sense.

It's not like XNA is the only free programming environment out there.  If you just want to create a quick mockup, there are easier ways to go about it.  For instance, Ouendan was first created in Flash.
Title: RE: Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: KDR_11k on August 13, 2007, 06:20:05 AM
Yeah but a mockup may require the Wiimote to work.
Title: RE:Wii Remote Supported By XNA
Post by: Athrun Zala on August 13, 2007, 05:47:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MegaByte
Quote
Originally posted by: BlkPaladin
You know it is accually good for the smaller developer who are looking into development for WiiWare. XNA is a realitivly simple development solution where you can create a game using C# and DirectX to make a demo to show to Nintendo. (Which is one of the things I talked with Nintendo about last year, and they wanted a demo of software before making any commitment.) And if it is programmed correctly all you have to do is take out the component (classes) that are set up to use DirectX and replace them with simular classes that use the for form of OpenGL that the Wii utilizes without messing with any of the code of the game itself (besides the declarations for the changed classes). And you have a working Wii game.

This doesn't make a lot of sense.  If you were going to go through all that trouble, why not write it in the native language to begin with?  It might make more sense if C# was actually usable on Wii.  I mean, yes, you might be able to make a demo easier, but you'd have to start mostly from scratch to port it to Wii.
well, we don't really know whether the Wii can be programmed in C#, but surely it can be in C++, and if you use OpenGL, you're mostly there...