Post by: theaveng on March 22, 2003, 09:31:47 AM
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Originally posted by: theaveng
You would have a good point if this was a book, but it isn't. This is a video game... key word: video. They should be using videos to tell the story.
QuoteYes, I know. Look at my signature... I've been playing video games since 1977. However, *today's* video games have the ability and ample 1,500,000,000 bytes of space to include talking video logs from the Chozo/Pirates instead of text, so why not use that ability? In my opinion, they should have.
Originally posted by: blackgriffen
Believe it or not they were called video games before they had videos in them.
QuoteIf Samus' suit can translate text, it can certainly translate any digital video. And power? If the Chozo were concerned about power loss, why not use conventional doors instead of powered? I don't think power loss was their primary concern.
Originally posted by: blackgriffen
Text is longer lived, doesn't require a special player, or special recorder. It also doesn't require a power source, and if you're leaving messages for someone in the future, as the Chozo were, you shouldn't depend on the presence of a functioning power source.
QuoteGood point, although Kingdom Hearts was able to include 11 full-sized levels and 4 hours worth of cutscenes. With half as many levels, I'm sure a similar amount of cutscenes could have been squeezed into Matroid Prime. It's just a couple of video logs... something to break up the monotony.
Originally posted by: blackgriffen
It's a waste of space to make videos when text will serve the same function (in both the game's reality, and our own where cut-scenes take up a lot of disc space).
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All of the above comes to this: I found the *routine* of running into a room/scanning/reading, running into the next room/scanning/reading, repeat over-and-over-and-over to be very tedious. It was okay for the first 10 hours, but the last 15 was a real chore to finish. And in my *opinion* video logs to break up the monotony of a very, very long game would have been nice. Final Fantasy does it. Zelda: Wind Waker does it. IMHO, Metroid should have done it too.
Post by: mouse_clicker on March 22, 2003, 09:34:55 AM
Post by: Gibdo Master on March 22, 2003, 09:55:15 AM
Post by: Stex on March 22, 2003, 11:04:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: theaveng
If Samus' suit can translate text, it can certainly translate any digital video. And power? If the Chozo were concerned about power loss, why not use conventional doors instead of powered? I don't think power loss was their primary concern.
I would imagine that those doors were put in place by the Pirates as a security measure. Regarding the use of video in the Pirate and Chozo things, I think it would be impratical to use them since a lot of the lore and data were about things that appeared later in the game. I know I'd rather experience the susprise of seeing an enemy first when I go to fight it rather than in a video beforehand.
Post by: Rogue on March 22, 2003, 12:07:12 PM
Maybe in Metroid 6.
Post by: EL Pollo DIablos on March 23, 2003, 06:01:18 AM
Not to much effort.
EL Pollo Diablos
Post by: theaveng on March 24, 2003, 04:49:54 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 24, 2003, 05:24:49 AM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on March 24, 2003, 06:53:20 AM
Maybe not have scanning at all. And I actually wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt.
They new MP (MP2) might be so very much different it wouldnt even feel like a new MP but more like a new game.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 24, 2003, 09:49:28 AM
Post by: BlackGriffen on March 24, 2003, 10:55:52 AM
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Originally posted by: theaveng
Yes, I know. Look at my signature... I've been playing video games since 1977. However, *today's* video games have the ability and ample 1,500,000,000 bytes of space to include talking video logs from the Chozo/Pirates instead of text, so why not use that ability? In my opinion, they should have.
Just because one can do a thing does not mean one should do a thing. Compare the paintings of the impressionists with the renaissance. The paintings of the impressionists are technically less advanced (as far as accurate representation is concerned), despite the fact that the painters had access to more technology and techniques than their predecessors. In spite of this, impressionists do a much better job of creating a mood from simple scenes than the renaissance masters.
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If Samus' suit can translate text, it can certainly translate any digital video. And power? If the Chozo were concerned about power loss, why not use conventional doors instead of powered? I don't think power loss was their primary concern.
Translation is a non-issue (the suit was made by the Chozo, after all). The primary issue is data integrity. The more compact the data representation, the more vulnerable the data is to the vagaries of time and degredation. Text on a wall is almost as durable as the wall. Electronic data is, by comparison, fleeting. I do admit that pictures and/or some videos of the pirates experiments would have been cool (perhaps something you can get at in the log book, I wouldn't want it to interrupt the game). Not the Chozo, though, I like them mysterious (this is the first game where we actually heard something about them besides that they existed and made statues that carry powerups).
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All of the above comes to this: I found the *routine* of running into a room/scanning/reading, running into the next room/scanning/reading, repeat over-and-over-and-over to be very tedious. It was okay for the first 10 hours, but the last 15 was a real chore to finish. And in my *opinion* video logs to break up the monotony of a very, very long game would have been nice. Final Fantasy does it. Zelda: Wind Waker does it. IMHO, Metroid should have done it too.
You know, there's a way to break up a game called putting it down. Set down the controller, and walk away for a bit. The old Metroids were meant to be capable of being played in a marathon, MP is not. Also, why did you spend so much time scanning and reading? I scanned every enemy type once (in the game), and the computer screens (cause I liked reading about the pirates running scared
). I spent at least as much time in battle as scanning/reading. I do need to go back to unlock some galleries. I just don't remember doing as much scanning as you seem to describe.BlackGriffen
Post by: mouse_clicker on March 24, 2003, 11:07:57 AM
And let me say this as well, theaveng- GOOD games are not meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator and may take a different route in their presentation. If you don't like it, well that's not our problem, and it's certainly not the developers'.
Post by: kennyb27 on March 24, 2003, 11:54:53 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 24, 2003, 01:33:34 PM
Also, just because something can translate text does not mean it can do anything else. Go to an online translator and try to translate a movie, it won't work. I take it as granted that Samus's suit can do that, but it's still a silly comment to make.
Post by: PIAC on March 24, 2003, 02:10:17 PM
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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Scanning is by no means necessary, although I think it makes the game a LOT more ambient and atmospheric for reasons I've already stated. I'd be very surprised if scanning was absent from the Metroid Prime 2 because one the whole, almost everybody really enjoyed it- there were onyl small, scattered groups of people who didn't like it, although I find it odd they didn't discover that you don't HAVE to scan everything that's scannable, nor do you reall have to scan anything at all. It's like reading Sings in Zelda or talking to NPC's in RPG's- you don't have to, but they're there for the people that do enjoy them. Scanning the story meant that people who wanted a more action packed adventure could have that while the people who wanted a deeper story could have that as well.
And let me say this as well, theaveng- GOOD games are not meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator and may take a different route in their presentation. If you don't like it, well that's not our problem, and it's certainly not the developers'.
once again mouse_clicker i agree, while i haven't played metroid yet (only like a week to go
) i do know that scanning isn't manditory, so yeah if you dont want todo it dont! no need to complain, personally i cant wait till i have metroid and can scan stuff it sounds very apealingbtw, can i quote you again mouse_clicker?
you say smart stuffedit: it would apear my sig is too full =\ cant add another top notch mouse_clicker quote
Post by: mouse_clicker on March 24, 2003, 03:01:01 PM
It's not often I've had people quote me, so I'll take any chance I can get.
Post by: theaveng on March 26, 2003, 05:04:54 AM
QuoteYes, nevertheless I AM entitled to express my opinion. It's called Free Speech. Just as you are entitled to say, "Metroid was great!" I am entitled to say, "Metroid was kinda boring." The soliders in Iraq are fighting and dying to protect that right.
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
. If you don't like it, well that's not our problem, and it's certainly not the developers'.
Post by: theaveng on March 26, 2003, 05:05:05 AM
QuoteYes, nevertheless I AM entitled to express my opinion. It's called Free Speech. Just as you are entitled to say, "Metroid was great!" I am entitled to say, "Metroid was kinda boring." The soliders in Iraq are fighting and dying to protect that right.
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
. If you don't like it, well that's not our problem, and it's certainly not the developers'.
Post by: theaveng on March 26, 2003, 05:05:06 AM
SAVING: Why on earth can't I use slot B for saving? What a load of crap. (Ditto Starfox Adventures.) Both slots are there, so why not let me use both of them?
Post by: theaveng on March 26, 2003, 05:05:07 AM
QuoteI imagine the Pirates would sound like N'Grath and Chozo like Kosh in Babylon 5.
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
And audio/video stuff? Tell me, how would a Chozo sound, and what would a space pirate sound like, translated to English. Please.
Post by: theaveng on March 26, 2003, 05:06:39 AM
QuoteJust curious... how would you play the game without scanning? How would you know where to go next? Or how to defeat the enemy blocking your path?
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Scanning is by no means necessary, although I think it makes the game a LOT more ambient and atmospheric for reasons I've already stated.
Post by: PIAC on March 26, 2003, 08:17:22 AM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on March 26, 2003, 09:21:26 AM
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Originally posted by: theavengQuoteJust curious... how would you play the game without scanning? How would you know where to go next? Or how to defeat the enemy blocking your path?
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Scanning is by no means necessary, although I think it makes the game a LOT more ambient and atmospheric for reasons I've already stated.
Well, since theres games that need no scanning it ought to work without.
Scanning was great, and because it was great and original, It shouldnt be heavily implemented in MP2 as to make it more original.
Id rather have Samus do different things this time, something just as innovative as the scanning in MP1.
And I wouldnt be totally surprised if MP2 is quite a bit different from MP1 and yes even to the extent that scanning wont be implied.
Post by: mouse_clicker on March 26, 2003, 02:22:45 PM
Hey now, don't go start calling me unpatriotic- I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion, I just said it's not our or the developers' fault that YOU don't like the game. I kinda got the impression you were taking your "opinion" a step further when you a revived a dead debate from a dead thread.
"
Quote
And audio/video stuff? Tell me, how would a Chozo sound, and what would a space pirate sound like, translated to English. Please.
I imagine the Pirates would sound like N'Grath and Chozo like Kosh in Babylon 5."
Odd- I don't think ever asked what the Chozo or Space Pirates would sound like. Must've been someone else.
"Just curious... how would you play the game without scanning? How would you know where to go next? Or how to defeat the enemy blocking your path?"
Like PIAC said, good ol' trial and error. How did you know where to go in Super Metroid, or how to defeat the enemies in the game if you couldn't scan? Like I said, it's real helpful if you do scan, but it's not necessary. It would actually make the game harder if you didn't always know an enemies weakness or where to go next.
"Scanning was great, and because it was great and original, It shouldnt be heavily implemented in MP2 as to make it more original.
Id rather have Samus do different things this time, something just as innovative as the scanning in MP1."
I still think scanning should be implemented just as much if not more so in MP2. Just because the sequel employs an innovative feature of its predecessor doesn't mean it's unoriginal- if that was true, both Majora's Mask and Wind Waker would be unoriginal since they both employ the lock on targeting system that debuted in Ocarina of Time. I agree that I'd like to see a feature in MP2 just as innovative as the scanning in MP, but that doesn't mean we have to get rid of scanning altogether to make room for it.
Post by: Mario on March 26, 2003, 05:19:45 PM
Post by: PIAC on March 26, 2003, 06:12:12 PM
shake harder boy!!
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on March 27, 2003, 07:29:28 AM
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"Yes, nevertheless I AM entitled to express my opinion. It's called Free Speech. Just as you are entitled to say, "Metroid was great!" I am entitled to say, "Metroid was kinda boring." The soliders in Iraq are fighting and dying to protect that right. "
Hey, keep that war BS away from these boards, you know its gonna lead to a big nasty debate. This is a GCN board not a patriotism board OK.
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Just curious... how would you play the game without scanning? How would you know where to go next? Or how to defeat the enemy blocking your path?
Well it obviously works in other games, you just gotta change the storyline a bit. Scanning was cool, but MP2 could certainly work without.
It wouldnt have to be scanning, maybe something even more advanced.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 27, 2003, 11:52:46 AM
Or I don't, anyway, and that's all that matters.
It's no big deal though. It's fine with me if you don't like scanning.
Post by: theaveng on March 28, 2003, 09:08:02 AM
People should feel free to express their minority-view opinions without feeling that they will be verbally beat-up or insulted by the majority.
Debating Facts = OK. Attacking People = Unacceptable.
Post by: theaveng on March 28, 2003, 09:08:09 AM
Post by: theaveng on March 28, 2003, 09:08:14 AM
Post by: theaveng on March 28, 2003, 09:08:57 AM
Post by: theaveng on March 28, 2003, 09:09:02 AM
Post by: theaveng on March 28, 2003, 09:09:05 AM
Post by: theaveng on March 28, 2003, 09:09:10 AM
Post by: theaveng on March 28, 2003, 09:09:35 AM
Post by: theaveng on March 28, 2003, 09:09:40 AM
People should feel free to express their minority-view opinions without feeling that they will be verbally beat-up or insulted by the majority.
Debating Facts = OK. Attacking People = Unacceptable.
Post by: BlackGriffen on March 28, 2003, 09:59:33 AM
I had already apologized more than once for phrasing my opinions in an aggressive manner, but you just couldn't let it die. Look, dude, debate's over. We were well in to the rehash round in the last thread, and it's continuing in this thread. It was locked for good reason, now just let it die. We've all stated our views and had plenty of opportunity to respond. Do you have issues with moving on from percieved slights? Or are you just obsessed with getting the last word in? Whatever. Whether you're done with this or not, I am, so I'll see ya' around.
BlackGriffen
Post by: theaveng on March 29, 2003, 02:28:42 AM
Post by: PIAC on March 29, 2003, 02:36:16 AM
now its the end
ner ner[/childish]
Post by: thecubedcanuck on March 29, 2003, 02:59:03 AM
You seem to be at it again, I see.
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If there's a limitation on your perceptive abilities, then that is a perfectly valid question. You assume that the problem is with the game, but did you ever consider that it was a difference in your perceptions that makes the game less fun to you than to other people?
Perception and opinion are in this case pretty much one in the same. However, my abilities have nothing to do with my enjoyment of Metroid Prime. I found the game easy, and very, very tedius. You claimed, by this fact alone, that I had a short attention span. I still fail to see the connection. I just simple didnt like the game. I love Zelda and it requires much greater attention that Prime IMO.
So your point really seemes flawed to me. To base an opinion of a "person" based on what they think of one "game" is very dangerous and I would guess inaccurate about 99% of the time.
I sit in front of a PC for 10 hours a day, looking at Bond prices, drawing charts, reading financial reports, and reading more news releases that one could possibly imagine. The last thing I want to do when I playing a game is read a text heavy, scan fest like Prime. I know there is a fair bit of reading in Zelda, but it is spaced out better and not as much of a chore.
My personal favories are FPS because they are limited in text and heavy on action which a far cry from what my daily routine is like. Besides, where else can I imagine my co-workers running for the exits (only kidding).
Now that summer is fast approaching here, my video game playing will deminish to almost nothing, as I much prefer to sit by my pool and play golf 5 times a week.
So if you wish to judge me based on my game preferances, go right ahead. I just hope you dont make all of lifes decisions with as little information as you have here.
Post by: theaveng on March 31, 2003, 03:19:51 AM
BTW, I was amazed to hear a VOICE when I turned on the Super M game. I forgot about that!
