Post by: bubicus on July 11, 2007, 06:27:03 PM
If a programmer KNEW that the remote and the nunchuk were an exact distance from each other (and with the Zapper shell, the programmer would), and assuming that the remote and the nunchuk's accelerometers have superfine resolution, he or she could write code that would compare the differences between the two accelerometer motions in three dimensions. Because of that, it should be possible to allow aiming with a gunsight, just like with a light gun, rather than just using a cursor on the screen. All that would be required is an initial calibration.
Post by: Kairon on July 11, 2007, 06:43:01 PM
They've already said that Ghost Squad will have a calibration option so you can play using the sights, and no cursor.
Post by: Adrock on July 11, 2007, 06:58:33 PM
I love how there was just utter silence when Reggie revealed the price during the press conference. And I thought the nunchuck at $20 was steep.
If I get it free with Umbrella Chronicles, I'll take it (who doesn't like free stuff), same with the "steering wheel" with Mario Kart. Otherwise, get out of my face.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 11, 2007, 07:01:19 PM
Post by: BlkPaladin on July 11, 2007, 07:16:51 PM
Post by: ThePerm on July 11, 2007, 07:44:30 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 11, 2007, 07:55:18 PM
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Originally posted by: BlkPaladin
Well isn't supposed packed in with a game Nintendo made for it. (Probally the rumored update on Duck Hunt.)
No matter how much you people complain and moan, you know you'd pay $20 for Duck Hunt.
Post by: The Traveller on July 11, 2007, 07:58:57 PM
Post by: Adrock on July 11, 2007, 08:04:45 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 11, 2007, 08:13:39 PM
Post by: EasyCure on July 11, 2007, 08:38:47 PM
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Originally posted by: The Traveller
It doesnt look as cool as the Zapper they showed b4
I only liked the prototype they showed before a realized how tiny it was.
At first it looked all bad@ss and resembled a sawed off shot gun. Then i saw the pictures of it next to the wiimote and classic controller and it looked small and stubby.
This new design reminds me of RE4's Red9 w/ the stock attached. Now that's bad@ss.
Post by: Kairon on July 11, 2007, 08:49:11 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 11, 2007, 08:52:48 PM
Post by: jakeOSX on July 12, 2007, 12:27:28 AM
but, i agree, $20 for duck hunt? i'm there.
Post by: bubicus on July 12, 2007, 05:27:44 AM
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Originally posted by: Kairon
There's no need to do that. As long as you stay in the same position in the room, you can more or less use what the Super scope did: calibrate so it knows what the "center" looks like and then just compare everything (tilt anhd distance) to that center data.
They've already said that Ghost Squad will have a calibration option so you can play using the sights, and no cursor.
No, the Super Scope didn't work in the same way as the system I described. The Super Scope would detect the moment that the trigger was pulled and compare it to the current position of a CRT's light projection on the screen. That method worked fine for old systems because nobody owned anything but CRTs back then, but it won't work on modern televisions like LCDs or plasmas because they display entire frames at once. Furthermore, the Super Scope used an optical detector, but neither the remote nor nunchuk have optical detectors, so there is nothing visual for them to measure. The remote has an infrared sensor, but on its own, its measurement resolution is not fine enough to allow for sight aiming.
The system I described requires no optical sensors. All it requires is an initial calibration of the zapper by measuring the initial position and tilt of the remote and the nunchuk. After that, everything can be measured from those measurements, assuming the measurement resolution is fine enough. If the positional measurements and the infrared measurements are combined, I'm sure sight aiming would be possible. Perhaps that is what Ghost Squad does when using the zapper. I'm pretty sure Ghost Squad does not allow for sight aiming when using only the remote.
Post by: Requiem on July 12, 2007, 06:30:31 AM
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Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
The zapper makes me angry because my gun holding habits want to hold the back with my right hand, but my game-playing habits want to hold it with my left hand (analog stick) and due to this, I'll never be comfortable.
Agreed. But I'd have no qualms if they just swap button functions. Like if the made "Z" fire, and then made the trigger secondary fire.
Post by: Kairon on July 12, 2007, 10:42:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: bubicusQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
There's no need to do that. As long as you stay in the same position in the room, you can more or less use what the Super scope did: calibrate so it knows what the "center" looks like and then just compare everything (tilt anhd distance) to that center data.
They've already said that Ghost Squad will have a calibration option so you can play using the sights, and no cursor.
No, the Super Scope didn't work in the same way as the system I described. The Super Scope would detect the moment that the trigger was pulled and compare it to the current position of a CRT's light projection on the screen. That method worked fine for old systems because nobody owned anything but CRTs back then, but it won't work on modern televisions like LCDs or plasmas because they display entire frames at once. Furthermore, the Super Scope used an optical detector, but neither the remote nor nunchuk have optical detectors, so there is nothing visual for them to measure. The remote has an infrared sensor, but on its own, its measurement resolution is not fine enough to allow for sight aiming.
The system I described requires no optical sensors. All it requires is an initial calibration of the zapper by measuring the initial position and tilt of the remote and the nunchuk. After that, everything can be measured from those measurements, assuming the measurement resolution is fine enough. If the positional measurements and the infrared measurements are combined, I'm sure sight aiming would be possible. Perhaps that is what Ghost Squad does when using the zapper. I'm pretty sure Ghost Squad does not allow for sight aiming when using only the remote.
Ah! So that's how it worked! *enlightened*
So you're saying that the wiimote's IR camera doesn't have the resolution necessary to replicate the Super Scope's optical detector?
Post by: bubicus on July 13, 2007, 12:10:37 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on July 13, 2007, 04:55:50 PM
Using the accelerometers probably wouldn't work for two reasons. For one, I think I've heard that the accelerometers can't detect acceleration beyond a certain threshold that people can easily pass. That is, the maximum acceleration is capped. So if you were to adjust your aim too quickly, the game would register a lesser motion. It might even start moving in the opposite direction when you bring the remote to a stop, if you come to a stop gradually enough to be below the cap.
The second is that even without that limitation, errors are likely to accumulate over time. To calculate the remote's velocity, you have to keep incrementing it by the acceleration data from the controller. That acceleration data isn't exact, since it's been digitized (plus it's over discrete time intervals). The error in acceleration data in each frame is likely pretty small, but as you keep adding them up after thousands of frames it could start to get pretty noticable.
Post by: Kairon on July 13, 2007, 10:09:06 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on July 13, 2007, 10:14:44 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 13, 2007, 10:18:38 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 14, 2007, 02:16:09 AM
In the end I expected more then a plastic shell expecially for the price. If plastic shells is all Nintendo will give us in Wiimote peripherals from here on out they can keep all of them and help the planet.
(The balance board is independent of the Wiimore correct?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 14, 2007, 04:48:13 AM
Just like the Green Goblin.... think about it. That would be kinda awesome.
Post by: Requiem on July 14, 2007, 04:57:55 AM
.Check the WiiBoard thread.
Post by: Smoke39 on July 14, 2007, 12:05:16 PM
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All licensed Super Scope games include a calibration mode to account for both electrical delays and maladjustment of the gunsight.
Post by: MaryJane on August 16, 2007, 04:27:19 PM
What if...
Wait for it,
The zapper had its own (i would make it bold an in italics but I'm using phone) analog stick and.... BUTTONS the obvious approach would be to just keep the c and z buttons. However, since the gun has a specific purpose (whereas the nunchuck is multipurpose) buttons could be added specifically the gaming genre. A reload button (preferably the action but with the warpath the ESRB and its supporters are it probably wouldn't happen) for quicker reload times making faster gameplay possible.
couple that with the precision aiming of the Wii-mote (whose poor batteries would be being pushed to their limits, how much do you think a few extra buttons over the nunchuck would affect battery power) and you've got a nice setup. I'm not sure if the controller would need to have accelerometers considering the Wii-mote is sitting inside of the thing. Excluding that should improve battery power.
Anyway that's my idea.
Post by: UERD on August 16, 2007, 04:40:18 PM
. I would like to see wheels and guns with integrated controls and maybe even auxiliary sensors, but it seems pretty unlikely.
Post by: Kairon on August 17, 2007, 08:25:10 AM
Anyone think Nintendo will unwrap the Zapper pack-in title at the Leipzig Games Conference? Or maybe Tokyo Game Show?
Post by: Terranigma Freak on August 17, 2007, 10:17:50 AM
Anyway, I saw some pretty cool looking devices that'll turn the Wiimote into a gun. Most of them aren't very practical though. While the Wii-Zapper looks good, I don't think it'll work very well. I'm not going to argue how it senses, but you know you're not pointing at the TV like the Zapper or Super Scope; you're pointing at the sensor bar. You won't be aiming like you did with the other light guns. I don't think that'll work very well. You need a reticule to aim instead of using the Wiizapper.
Post by: Kairon on August 17, 2007, 10:39:45 AM
Hmm... one of thse days, we should start a Zapper and alternatives thread to list and catalogue the full range of third party alternatives to the Zapper and discuss them.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 17, 2007, 10:42:12 AM
Post by: Terranigma Freak on August 18, 2007, 03:20:50 AM
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Ah, so this is from the PC version? Darn. LOL. I had Uncharted Waters 2: New Horizons for the SNES and MAN, that game was Awesome, but uber hardcore to boot. I never knew they'd continued the series, and now I am just as pissed at Koei as you are for their denying me its riches!
There have been 5 so far I think. There's a New Horizon Gaiden released on the PC with 2 extra characters. Well, you really only play as the 2 extras, but it took place in the New Horizon saga and you meet the original 6 characters along the way. UW4 was released on DS, but didn't get translated!!!!
The Uncharted Waters game really is a testament of gameplay over graphics. The graphics look like crap and I still LOVE playing the game to this day.
