Post by: WindyMan on April 24, 2007, 04:40:27 AM
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=13357
Nintendo of Europe has updated its site—the front page, no less—with a notice informing people about the danger of Wii mod chips. The note explains that chips are illegal, of course, and that installing one into your console will void your warranty and possibly render your system unrepairable, should something go wrong. The final sentence of the update goes as far as tossing around the phrase "criminal charges."
Posting this information on the front page indicates that Nintendo is taking this issue very seriously in Europe, perhaps heading any future problems off before they happen. It could also be a move to better educate the consumers that don't know any better. Whatever the reason, if you didn't know about the dangers of mod chips, now you do.
Post by: decoyman on April 24, 2007, 05:02:06 AM
WARNING – With mod chips, you may be able to play games from other regions, thus disempowering NoE and our ability to, without penalty aside from occasional public outcry, sluggishly release games that have been out for months – even years! – in other regions.
Post by: Louieturkey on April 24, 2007, 05:04:59 AM
Post by: ootler on April 24, 2007, 06:03:12 AM
Post by: Tansunn on April 24, 2007, 06:52:34 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on April 24, 2007, 07:06:02 AM
Post by: vudu on April 24, 2007, 07:29:52 AM
QuoteIt would probably have something to do with quality control.
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I guess it would be interesting to see how a PR robot tries to spin "we don't want you to get games quick and cheap" into something that sounds good for the customer.
Post by: that Baby guy on April 24, 2007, 07:45:22 AM
Post by: UncleBob on April 24, 2007, 08:35:12 AM
Anywhoo, yeah, it's not a wise move to mod a console that's always online and ready to download updates...
Post by: Nephilim on April 24, 2007, 09:05:41 AM
live: ban's you
Psp: we dont care
nintendo atleast has the right attitude
Post by: Ceric on April 24, 2007, 09:47:47 AM
I still think that Nintendo should just go with the flow and either unlock the system or sell you each region as a channel.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on April 24, 2007, 09:54:07 AM
And does NoE actually have ANY power at all to punish people with modded Wiis? I know they can sue people who sell the chips, but they can't touch the users, right?
Post by: vudu on April 24, 2007, 10:17:48 AM
QuoteThey can brick your system.
Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
And does NoE actually have ANY power at all to punish people with modded Wiis? I know they can sue people who sell the chips, but they can't touch the users, right?
Post by: bustin98 on April 24, 2007, 10:38:58 AM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on April 24, 2007, 11:10:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
They can brick your system.
True, but I meant more along the lines of legal action.
Post by: UncleBob on April 24, 2007, 12:30:33 PM
However, it wouldn't be worth their effort. It's like the RIAA going after someone for illegally downloading a few songs. They *can*, it's just not something they're going to do (often).
Post by: Ceric on April 24, 2007, 12:46:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: bustin98
Supposedly there are mod chips that operate in stealth mode. Plus, in order to combat certain mod chips, Nintendo is altering the layout of the board that the chip modifies, removing redundant or useless circuit paths amoung possible other modifications.
Why didn't they get rid of those to begin with I wander.
Post by: JonLeung on April 24, 2007, 01:07:28 PM
It's like when you tell someone "don't think about elephants" and they can't help but think about elephants.
"Don't use mod chips!" - Nintendo UK
"Oh, mod chips are available? Thanks for letting me know!" - formerly unaware gamer
See?
Post by: that Baby guy on April 24, 2007, 01:25:45 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on April 24, 2007, 02:01:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
It would depend on the country, but probably, they could.
However, it wouldn't be worth their effort. It's like the RIAA going after someone for illegally downloading a few songs. They *can*, it's just not something they're going to do (often).
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Why didn't they get rid of those to begin with I wander.
Probably they were left in as sometimes removing seemingly useless parts of a complex piece of electronics can screw everything up.
Post by: Galford on April 24, 2007, 03:54:27 PM
Because if Nintendo's current policies hold, that's what is going to happen.
Maybe if Nintendo changed some of their policies there wouldn't be a need for a mod market in Europe.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 24, 2007, 04:10:21 PM
Post by: UncleBob on April 24, 2007, 05:23:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
Also, Nintendo is not legally allowed to brick your console because it has a chip (even though there's no way they could even know you had one, at least not the type of modchips that are out now), all they can do is void your warranty and refuse to fix your system if you modded it.
You know what's interesting about hacking? It goes both ways.
Someone creates a mass market mod chip for a system - the company finds out and figures a way to prevent it from working on new systems. So the individuals who make the mod chip figure out how to work around the work around and make a new chip. And the company goes back to work to work around the work around of the work around.
You say that there's no way for Nintendo to know you have a mod chip, but all Nintendo has to do is order one of these mod chips and install it themselves and when Super Smash Bros. Brawl or Mario Galaxy comes out, include the code that detects this new mod chip and bricks it. Then, when the hackers figure it out, they'll build another chip that Nintendo "won't know about". And when Nintendo finds out, they'll have the ability to do the same thing.
As far as the legality of it? It'd be an interesting court case. Aside from the fact that the Mod chip is (typically and probably) illegal, open one of your game's manual to the front, inside cover. "This [...] game is not [...] for use with any unauthorized device." Using the game with your unauthorized, (probably) illegally modded Wii would be about the same as using it with your Big Mac, then complainging that the disc cut the roof of your mouth. If the disc isn't designed to play on a modded Wii and you try to do so anyway (after being told not to), I have a hard time believing you'd get much out of a case against them.
Post by: that Baby guy on April 24, 2007, 05:42:18 PM
Both ways, too. The person that mods consoles and the people that use the mods.
Anyways, I think in most cases, it's a bad decision to mod your console initially. After a long time passes, a the mods will get more and more efficient at bypassing security measures, such as with the PSP, and then it might be a better decision, but if you do go that route, it is very wise to be very well versed in the effects, both positive and negative, that the mod has placed on your console.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 24, 2007, 07:39:13 PM
Bob: You can make any claims on the box but they aren't necessarily binding if the judge finds that other claims on the box contradict it (or just finds that you have no rights to make such claims). Making a computer program that is deliberately damaging computers you don't like is a crime (cf. Sony rootkit class action lawsuit). Committing a crime against a criminal is still illegal and the criminal has all rights to sue you. Having it happen by accident is one thing (though you can expect future modchips to automatically prevent firmware updates) but designing the product in order to cause such damage is illegal.
Post by: Willi on April 24, 2007, 07:55:07 PM
I have no interest to mod my Wii whatsoever, still I find this topic rather interesting.
On to the Super Paper Mario issue:
My leaflet in SPM merely says:
"Please note that when first loading the Game Disc into the Wii console, the Wii will check if you have the latest system menu, and if necessary a Wii system update screen will appear. Press OK to proceed."
Latest system menu.
So when you first try to run SPM, the Game Disc will check if you have already the newest System Update installed. Maybe Nintedo put this in place for those unfortunate console owners who do not have internet access. By regularly adding the newest Firmware on major releases Nintendo can make sure pretty much all consoles are up to date irregardless of a working internet connection.
Right now there are at least three mod chips out there: Wiid, Wiikey, and CycloWiz. The best of the bunch obviously being Wiikey as of now:
Homepage: http://www.wiikey.cn/
Forum: http://psx-scene.com/wii/portal.php?styleid=28
As has been said the mod chip merely allows a Disc to be read which isn't supposed to be read. Thus the forums can confirm that having a mod chip in place in no ways seems to hinder further System Updates:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/499544:
I did a system update right after my Wii-Key was installed. No problems. Besides, Wii-Key runs in stealth mode.
or
internet --> system updates would be fine even with a modchip without the stealth mode feature (im using wi-ic and it doesnt have stealth mode but the update was successful
its a sucky modchip though)However, the bricked Wiis due to SPM are a logic consequence of a modded non updated system:
Your game selection will be limited due to Nintendo putting the system updates on newer game titles. Example: (Paper Mario) Which will install the update automatically to the newer version if your version is lower then what is on the game disc.
This already has become a problem with some Wii owners with region free modchips installed. Some users have bricked their Wii due to playing an NTSC game disc (Paper Mario) on their PAL system without updating their system. Paper Mario did a system update and flashed the NTSC system update on their PAL unit which then bricked their Wii due to region lock on the hardware of the system.
It is important to keep your Wii updated if you have a modchip installed. If you do not want to update your Wii due to a softmod that could be exploited later in time then you will need to know what titles have the system update on them and stay away from those game titles.
The correct steps to play a game like that:
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1107329/?show_files=&page=3
I have a (launchday) pall Wii firmware 2.1E, Wiikey, Game patched with RegionFrii 1.2.
Can confirm SPM works on pal (downloaded from another site however)
- turn on your wii without a game disc in
- perform a system update and follow it until the system reboots
- perform system updates until you get a message telling you there are no more updates available.
- boot up your wii then insert the game disc
- when you go into the disc channel, you will be asked to perform an update
- make sure your internet connection is available then click OK to perform the update
- once your wii reboots, you can play this awesome game!
In summary, all NOE had to do to brick lots and lots of modded Wiis:
- build a new NTSC firmware with no changes but incremented version number
- include a similar update mechanism as in SPM in a new major US title such a Galaxy
- do NOT include such an update mechanism in the same major title to be released in Europe
- do NOT include this update in the PAL market so it is not available for non NTSC consoles
- release the major title in the US but delay the title considerably in Europe
-> every attempt to play this game on a non NTSC console will brick the modded Wii until the time a newer
update is released in the PAL market.
I wonder if a bricked Wii like this could still be later updated and fixed "blindly". A pal console with NTSC firmware couldn't display a picture anymore but other than that could in theory still work, right? So assuming we have a broken Pal Wii due to bad firmware, could this Wii be repaired by blindly updating the Firmware to a new legit Pal System Update provided one was available?
If so, NOE only had to modify the above procedure slightly to add enough changes to the Wii to deliberately brick a Pal onsole which applies this patch.
Post by: Nephilim on April 24, 2007, 11:06:21 PM
Also blaming NOE?
pirates are dumb
wouldnt be suprised if nintendo pulled a xbox live for strikers, brawl and other games
Post by: Willi on April 25, 2007, 12:18:43 AM
The bricked Wiis due to Super Paper Mario are to be blamed fully on the carelessness of the mod users. This certainly didn't happen on purpose by NOE. In closing, I only described one method NOE could deploy if they really wanted to deliberately brick modded Wiis, which they don't, as of now.
Post by: UncleBob on April 25, 2007, 01:47:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Bob: You can make any claims on the box but they aren't necessarily binding if the judge finds that other claims on the box contradict it (or just finds that you have no rights to make such claims). Making a computer program that is deliberately damaging computers you don't like is a crime (cf. Sony rootkit class action lawsuit). Committing a crime against a criminal is still illegal and the criminal has all rights to sue you. Having it happen by accident is one thing (though you can expect future modchips to automatically prevent firmware updates) but designing the product in order to cause such damage is illegal.
Meh... like I said, it would be an interesting court case. Not only would you have to attempt to tell the judge that you were trying to play the game on an unauthorized, (probably) illegally modified system after being told not to do so, but if the events happened similarly to the Super Paper Mario incident, you'd have to create an international lawsuit (since NoE and NoA are two seaperate companies, you couldn't really file for civil damages against NoE for a game released by NoA). Additionally, you'd have to tell the judge that you were attempting to play a game in Europe that says it's "For [...] use only in the USA, Canada, Mexico and Latin America".
I can only imangine Judge Judy's response to this.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 25, 2007, 06:08:50 AM
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 25, 2007, 07:56:24 AM
Post by: UncleBob on April 25, 2007, 08:23:43 AM
Post by: Ceric on April 25, 2007, 03:04:02 PM
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 25, 2007, 03:19:05 PM
Post by: JonLeung on April 25, 2007, 04:27:00 PM
I miss the good old days. Such a simple fix.
*snaps the tabs out of the inside of a Super NES to play Super Famicom games*
