Post by: Reverse_Gecko on March 16, 2003, 06:43:06 PM
One of the problems is that the story is driven by the log book. You gotta walk around scanning things, and then read hundreds of entries. I didn't want to do that, so there basically was no story for me. Cenimatics would of been far far superior.
Also there no emotion. Some games I get really into and I really hate the bad guy, and i go " im gonna beat the living sh*t out of this motherf*cking son *!# of a@#$$ ADJ33@@!# stupid 214#!@@! $!#@@head!" then im motiovated to beat the game. OR some games are soo intruiging i can't wait to find out what happens next. But with metroid prime, theres no motivation.
I beat the game once, and I didn't enjoy it that much. I've been trying to go through it on hard, but I just can't. I can't play it anymore. When i start up the game i immediatly go to the image gallery or play metroid 1.
Anyways, I really really looking forward to metroid prime 2. If they do everything like metroid prime, ecept make it so you want to play, it will be the best game ever.
Comments?
Post by: Taco on March 16, 2003, 06:45:16 PM
you:1
us:0
Post by: Grey Ninja on March 16, 2003, 06:46:38 PM
Post by: StRaNgE on March 16, 2003, 07:16:13 PM
damn cool concept and the sounds were just great especially in surround sound.
Post by: "Sky" on March 16, 2003, 07:26:17 PM
.It's alright to have an opinion don't get me wrong, but I just thought I'd clear up a few things about the Metroid franchise.
A Metroid w/ cinematics outside of the intro and the ending would really ruin it for me, being a long time follower of the series. Seriously... a cinematics w/ what? Samus doesn't even have anyone or anything to interact with and nor is she supposed to, outside of the regular "animals" of the planet and of course a hostile group of aliens who knows Samus is coming to kill them so obviously it's a "kill on sight" type of deal.
I found the story very interesting, as the logs themselves were very well written plus they gave in a lot of background on Samus, the Chozos, as well as the activities of the Space Pirates. I guess the story would be less grabbing to people who can't put the pieces of the texts together, or have no background with the Metroid franchise.
If you don't like Metroid, that's fine with me, but I really disagree with a heavy or even medium use of cinematics in a Metroid game.
Post by: Grey Ninja on March 16, 2003, 07:41:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: "Sky"
If you don't like Metroid, that's fine with me, but I really disagree with a heavy or even medium use of cinematics in a Metroid game.
I agree with that as well. I would just like some incentive to keep playing. I never really found that in Metroid. After the graphical beauty and the novelty of a GOOD first person game wore off... I didn't have much to do. I really do mean to play some more of it soon though.
Post by: Scyth3r on March 16, 2003, 08:11:04 PM
I mean updgrades and such are cool, but its still the same thing. At this point, I'm just trying to finish the game. I've gotten most of the log book so I know whats happening and such, but thers still nothing dramatic or anything. I'm just reading and going "okay" and then going on to get the next upgrade.
I just need to go get all the missed artifacts and I will be done. Good game, but not my flavor to make it great.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 16, 2003, 08:55:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Reverse_Gecko
But it lacks something that keeps you going
That's simply your case, and you seem to want motives or objectives elaborately instilled in you via automated storytelling.
Games in the Metroid and Castlevania series, for example, have little story development in them. They have beginnings and endings, with gameplay occupying the middle, and I'm wholly satisfied with that.
Metroid (Prime's) story is a 2-step process:
1) Samus go somewhere.
2) Samus KILL EVERYTHING!!
Castlevania is similar:
1) Go to Castle Dracula.
2) KILL DRACULA!!
That's just lovely. Having a bad guy that a game can prompt you to hate isn't really necessary for me. Usually, I begin playing knowing I'm gonna KILL HIM AND EVERYTHING ELSE in the first place. For me, Metroid Prime's experience is a single mission for Samus to complete, and nowhere in the middle of the game do I tell myself, "I haven't talked to anyone on this planet. I'm alone, all I do is kill everything, but I need some story to liven things up. I guess I'll go back to my gunship for some coffee." I just finish the damn mission, cuz that's what Samus' line of work called for, and it's what I expected from the Metroid franchise. The experience I derive from my interaction(gameplay) with the game(s) is all the story I personally need. When Samus visits a new place, or defeats a boss, hey, that just became part of my game's story. My motivation for further play is expressed by the question, "OK, what do KILL now?"
I like Metroid Prime a lot, but I wish it had just one more, one more huge boss.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on March 17, 2003, 04:06:44 AM
I much prefer playing SSX tricky and Tiger Woods 2003.
Post by: EL Pollo DIablos on March 17, 2003, 04:26:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
Tiger Woods 2003.
Now that'sexciting?!?!?!?!
I like the element of scanning. There is as much story in this game as you want to.
U want more story , u scan more.And if I look the arguments here I conclude that u would rather had Metroid prime a FPS with no story just shooting and grwesome bosses.
And that's exactly what Metroid wasn't ment to be.
I find 1thing anoying...........respawning enemies.
EL Pollo Diablos
Post by: The Omen on March 17, 2003, 04:40:48 AM
Post by: epiphany on March 17, 2003, 04:48:57 AM
Quote
but i dont want to go all the way over there and fight that annoying boss, then do the other stuff, and....
You've apparently never played any Metroid game before...
Post by: theaveng on March 17, 2003, 06:09:55 AM
Not so in Metroid 3D (Prime). You have to walk into a room and then stop and look around. And then look around some more. And then again just to make sure you didn't miss anything. That pace is waaaaay too slow.
Metroid on GameCube should have followed the same side-view as Castlevania: SOTN and Super Metroid. They should have kept the same style of game, just with hi-res, multi-million color graphics. In my opinion, it would have made a better game.
Post by: BlackGriffen on March 17, 2003, 08:47:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: theaveng
Metroid doesn't work in 3D. In the Original Metroid and Super Metroid, you can take in the entire room in a glance. That meant you could run almost non-stop from room-to-room-to-room without fear of dying. It made these games *exciting* because of the almost non-stop pace.
Not so in Metroid 3D (Prime). You have to walk into a room and then stop and look around. And then look around some more. And then again just to make sure you didn't miss anything. That pace is waaaaay too slow.
That's because you don't have "tha skillz."
I would run through rooms all the time in MP, you only need to explore them once (taking mental note of anything that stands out, mind you). You probably missed a lot in Super Metroid, too, because those rooms required exploration at least once. The thing you need to keep in mind is that Samus is tough enough to take a hit, so if you can't see it, and it can hit you on the run, then you need to stop for it, otherwise just keep running.I thought the game was great. You people who didn't like the story have no imagination. It's a pity that you have to have stories spoon fed to you instead of creating your own. I played the game not because I wanted to know what happens to Samus, I played because I was Samus (gender bending aside...). I was an actor in a play, and my part was as small or as large as I chose to make it. It's the same way with Link: the major stuff is supplied, but you need to bring your own plot details (only moreso because Samus is alone).
Lay off the caffeine, and dare to dream for yourself. It's better that way.
BlackGriffen
Post by: thecubedcanuck on March 17, 2003, 08:55:20 AM
Quote
I thought the game was great. You people who didn't like the story have no imagination
I am glad to see you think your "opinion" is better than his, a real sign of maturity.
I have a great imagination, I draw, I paint (some of my work is shown in 2 canadian gallaries) and I cant stand Prime.
You like the game, 3 cheeres for you. I think it sucked.
Opinions, oh how they scare the weak.
Post by: theblindtree on March 17, 2003, 09:03:29 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on March 17, 2003, 09:13:39 AM
Personally I find scanning to be one the most interesting parts of the game. It allows you to have as much or as little information as you want. I think it's great and I would actually find an archaeology game where you just walk around ruins, solve puzzles, and scan objects really fun. I think most fans of the game like the scanning too so it's not really something that should be "fixed" for the sequel.
My only major complaint is that Samus is just too damn slow and I find I lose a lot of energy just because she won't turn around fast enough to shoot the enemy behind her. Samus is pretty damn quick and agile in the other games so it make sense for her to be a little more speedy.
I haven't beaten the game yet but I find my lack of motivation is mostly due to standard Metroid conventions I don't really care for in the first place (respawning enemies, backtracking without any sort of easy way to teleport between areas). I don't think they should change the design though. Metroid fans like it and therefore it should stay as is. As a Zelda fan I would hate it is they changed the general design because a non-fan thought it was stupid how there was no jump button or something like that.
Post by: egman on March 17, 2003, 09:18:08 AM
The other Metroids, while not exactly fast paced, are designed to be beaten in a few hours depending on your skill. Metroid Prime completey breaks from that tradition. While previous Metorid didn't last very long, MP goes long enough to feel like a chore. I think if Super Metroid was a 20 hour game, it would've never been considered a classic.
The only thing I can suggest to people who are not clicking with it is to take your concerntration away from primarily completing goals. Soak up the enviorments and atmosphere. Try to admire level of design that was put in the game. The only way to really play the game is to allow yourself to get immersed in it, much what is to appreaciate in the game comes not from goal completion, but from those small details that give it a sense of life.
Post by: Sean on March 17, 2003, 09:59:55 AM
The fact is, Metroid Prime is a very old-fashioned game. The "story" is there if you want it, but otherwise, it's a game of atmosphere, spectacle, and exploration. If that's your bag, and in MP's case it's definitely mine, you're going to love this game, and the "motivation" to complete the game is in simply dying to see more and more and more. I turn on the game and just marvel at it. On top of that, I find it exceptionally fun and clever.
I completely respect one's opinion when they say the just didn't feel motivated to finish, or even keep playing, Metroid Prime. That's just being honest, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.
Where I would find fault with someone's "opinion" would be if they said the game was poorly designed or generally badly made, or that Metroid Prime cannot be considered good because of its subtle narrative. But if you find it boring, well, the game isn't for everyone--that much seems clear.
I've personally had as much fun with Metroid Prime as I have with any of my favorite games ever.
As for cinematics, Metroid Prime is in the great tradition of Nintendo Silent Movie Games, and if you ask me, it's not a sign of retrograde thought that keeps Nintendo making games in this way--they do it purely for art's sake. It's the difference between a film director like Tarkovsky who "painted" and composed his films and relied MAINLY on pure visual inventiveness to drive what little narrative there is to be found, and a director like David Mamet (also a playwright) whose movies rely on the literary merits of the stage.
It's just a choice, and you know which one you generally gravitate towards.
Post by: Icons by Size on March 17, 2003, 10:03:47 AM
i have another thing to say....not about metroid prime but about future metroid games...samus is a bounty hunter, right? so is she ever going to collect her bounty and move on to something completely different and that has nothing to do with metroids? like assassinating someone or doing something else?!!? its possible and it would be interesting to see it happen!
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 17, 2003, 10:11:43 AM
I am very glad to hear that I was not the only one that felt like this. Everything in this game was near perfect except for an undescribable feel that certain games have. An example of a game with this feel is Zelda. It is so fun and it has lots of emotion. It just makes you want to keep playing. I was afraid that I had some kind of problem because I didn't like the game as much as other people did. AND NOW I MUST GO TO the Hylian Legends Forum. Bye.
Post by: aoi tsuki on March 17, 2003, 10:14:34 AM
Quote
Also there no emotion.
i think this was more by design than not. The feeling of solitude is a character unto itself. If you have a Pro Logic I/II capable sound system, the scream of an enemy in the distance or the constant droning of a nearby powerup break the silence, yet still contribute to the "empty" feel of the game. What kept me going was the desire to see more of the great level design, and to get more powerups to reach the areas i couldn't. Metroid Prime is one of those rare games where i didn't feel cheated having to backtrack.
Post by: DevilishDude on March 17, 2003, 10:14:48 AM
Post by: bamf226 on March 17, 2003, 10:32:40 AM
I find MP very intriguing. I was like some of the others in this thread in that the scanning was too much. However, once I got down to the planet, it became very important to get a feel for the world. As I wandered around the planet, I found that the scanning made the game much more enjoyable. Not only did it expand on the story, but provided the fine details to help my immersion in the world. I actually felt like I was on a strange planet. I scanned everything I could to find out more about this new world.
Post by: GoldShadow1 on March 17, 2003, 12:09:35 PM
As for the scanning... well, I loved it at first, but it got tedious after a while. They all seem to be the same - either some mystical prophecy of the Chozo, or technical data from a Space Pirate experiment. Scanning the creatures is fun, though.
I was thinking, what would be an interesting compromise between the log book storyline and cut scenes / dialog would be audio/video data that you can download. It could have, for example, a surveillance video of a recent attack by Chozo ghosts or something, and then have it black out at the last minute. Or it could have a surreal telepathic vision of a Chozo prophecy. It'd still retain the feeling of being alone on a mission, but I think it'd help strengthen the plot quite a bit.
I would really like a transporter system implemented - I never really loved backtracking across the entire game in Metroid games, especially when you find that that secret you've been dying to uncover is a missile add-on or something.
One other complaint I heard (from the Metroid Database) was the lack of the Screw Attack or a real Space Jump. But personally, I never really liked these in Super Metroid anyway. The unlimited Space Jump was just crazy - suddenly you could fly, and go just about anywhere - it made all the other special jumps obsolete, and it wasn't even that fun to use (constantly tapping the jump button at the right time..). I much prefer the Space Jump in MP, which is very fun to use and has a great feel to it, which is especially surprising in 3D. It would be cool to see the return of the Speed Boost, though..
Post by: WhoDey on March 17, 2003, 12:29:37 PM
I totally hated the scanning, well, not actually doing it but reading what I scanned. The futuristic/technological language that was used did not appeal to me at all. I'd read 2 lines and quickly become bored with it. I realize it goes with the setting but I'd much rather have had it voiced to me instead of having to read something I didn't want to. Or have plain common english used.
Post by: AJL221893 on March 17, 2003, 12:53:40 PM
Post by: NickNiteQ93 on March 17, 2003, 12:59:17 PM
Post by: Moonwatcher on March 17, 2003, 02:11:17 PM
Ok, so some of you were turned off by the game's lack of a very obvious story. Have you played Metroid Fusion? It does not feel like a metroid game because the story is constantly being shoved down your throat. The motivation to move forward in a metroid game has always lied in the excitement of exploring giant alien worlds, discovering and subsequently destroying amazing creatures, and finding upgrades that make the exploring and fighting all that much more fun! If you found yourself treating the game like a chore because you were not swept up in the story then I have a suggestion for you, don't play metroid. The scanning system is a beatiful way of adding amazing depth to atmosphere of the game, and in Metroid, that is what is important. I find it funny and somewhat sad that you cannot enjoy the game because in order to understand how events are tied together and what your purpose in the game is you are forced to "work" by scanning objects and then connecting the dots. Use your friggin imagination! One of my biggest complaints with many current games is that they try so desperately to be very cinematic, but games are not movies! Obviously some game genres are very dependant on story (RPGs most notably) but that has never been what the Metroid series is about. I applaud Retro for bringing my favorite 2D game so perfectly into 3D, both in form and spirit.
Post by: WesDawg on March 17, 2003, 04:08:13 PM
Oh, and by the way, there is a flamethrower in MP isn't there? Anyways, I think the claim that Super Metroid involved less searching is a little bit of a stretch. You had to spend a lot of time in that game setting off bombs on random walls exploring, and hoping there might be something around, unless you had them X-ray goggles. They took forever to use though.
Anyways, to finish, I would be happy if there were more games made with no/little cinema in them. I just about can't stand Skies of Aracdia, simply because I know everytime I accomplish something I have to sit through an hour of people talking about it. TimeSplitters has probably been my favorite cinema's made to date IMO, and they have little to do with the story.
Post by: nolimit19 on March 17, 2003, 04:21:40 PM
Post by: rpglover on March 17, 2003, 04:37:52 PM
of course you have to be a fan of the type of game it really is
a lot of people came into the game just expecting a fps where you go through level and shoot
metroid is very ceribral in that you must search for everything and you must earn it all
that is something i know people usually do not like
also the lack of cinemas and voices turns off some people
but the game was made like that because samus is a bounty hunter and the only human there
there is no one else to talk to, so why should she talk ever
probably why most people who didnt like it didnt was because of the combat
once you learned the trick to beating the enemies, the game gets easier
the bosses were great though
i loved metroid prime- it was probably the best rookie game by a rookie studio ever
Post by: Duriez on March 17, 2003, 04:51:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Reverse_GeckoAlso there no emotion. Some games I get really into and I really hate the bad guy, and i go " im gonna beat the living sh*t out of this motherf*cking son *!# of a@#$$ ADJ33@@!# stupid 214#!@@! $!#@@head!" then im motiovated to beat the game. OR some games are soo intruiging i can't wait to find out what happens next. But with metroid prime, theres no motivation.
I think the emotion and feeling in Metriod Prime is in the enviorments you see. Metroid Prime has emotion that is much more subtle. You have to find emotion in your surroundings. For example, the Chozo Ruins give me a feeling of abandon, but I find beauty in the abandon. In the Magmoor caverns I get a busy feeling. There are lots of monsters in this area, lava is flowing everywhere, and there is lots of machinery that is doing stuff. In the Phendra Drifts I get a feeling of peace and sereness, excpet when I am blowing the f**k out of icey monsters of course. I guess I could go on, but I think you get the idea. Thats my 2 cents.
Post by: Reverse_Gecko on March 17, 2003, 05:42:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Moonwatcher
There aren't enough people here berating you for not loving every single thing about MP so I'll have to pick up the slack.
Ok, so some of you were turned off by the game's lack of a very obvious story. Have you played Metroid Fusion? It does not feel like a metroid game because the story is constantly being shoved down your throat. The motivation to move forward in a metroid game has always lied in the excitement of exploring giant alien worlds, discovering and subsequently destroying amazing creatures, and finding upgrades that make the exploring and fighting all that much more fun! If you found yourself treating the game like a chore because you were not swept up in the story then I have a suggestion for you, don't play metroid. The scanning system is a beatiful way of adding amazing depth to atmosphere of the game, and in Metroid, that is what is important. I find it funny and somewhat sad that you cannot enjoy the game because in order to understand how events are tied together and what your purpose in the game is you are forced to "work" by scanning objects and then connecting the dots. Use your friggin imagination! One of my biggest complaints with many current games is that they try so desperately to be very cinematic, but games are not movies! Obviously some game genres are very dependant on story (RPGs most notably) but that has never been what the Metroid series is about. I applaud Retro for bringing my favorite 2D game so perfectly into 3D, both in form and spirit.
My problem with it is not neccesarily that it doesnt tie together evens or sweep you up in a story. I just dislike the fact that the only reason you want to play is the exitement of exploring huge alien enviroments and destroying amazing creatures. Thats alot of fun, but when your packing 30 hours of gameplay with just that, it will get tedious. You gotta have more than that. Something dynamic. At every point in the game you are either exploring or killing monsters just for the sake of exploring and killing monsters. You get bored of that and then your only reason for playing the game becomes to justify purchasing it. I dont want hundreds of fellow gamecube owners to be playing games just to justify their purchase.
I'm not saying that there has to be an amazing plot or anything, im just saying there needs to be something there besides exploring and killing. If you havbe a plot, at every point in a game you are at a different point in the plot, and thus have iddferent things to do, it makes variety so you don't get bored. I'm not saying there needs to be a plot or cenimatics or anything, I'm just saying thats one way, whether it fits the metroid style or not, its one way that should be considered, perhaps not the best way, but metroid prime wouldof been better with it. Look at super metroid, it didn't have the most intruiging plot or cenimatics, it focused on exploring and killing stuff just like metroid prime, but there was something else there, which metroid prime lacked, that kept people playing. Thats what metroid prime needs.
You make some good points. I also applaud retro for moving metroid to 3d with such awesomeness, and still keeping it metroid. I also like the scanning feature, it is a good way to make more depth to the game for those who want to know moer, but I dislike it being a main way to keep interest in the game. Why? Because it seems like not only me, but many people just found it too boring, and it becomes tedious.
I also disagree with you about metroid fusion. Perosonally I think not only is it the best metroid in the series(even better than the amazing super metroid) but it totally recreates and augments the metroid experience, so did mp, but for some reason I loved fusion, and I could not put it down till I had beaten it twice.
I guess one of the points im trying to make is that I want retro to look at what makes metroid fusion and super metroid so addicting and enticing that you can't stop playing it, then add that element to all of the awesome things about metroid prime and put all those in metroid prime 2.
Don't just go think "big deal, this guy has an opinion." I think my opinion matters because many people share it with me. I want gamecube to be great. I want to brag about how sweet metroid prime is and convince more people to buy cubes, but how can I tell people that mp is the best game ever when so many people who bought it were a little dissapointed? I also hope retro reads this thread(ya right) and reads this discussion, so they can make metroid prime 2 as fantastic as its going to be.
Anyone agree with this? disagree?
EDIT: Wow, I didn't realize how long this was. I just kept typing. Sorry about the length!
Post by: theaveng on March 18, 2003, 05:51:01 AM
QuoteIgnoring your poor debate tactic of ad hominem (personal) attacks, I will maintain my original opinion: The 2D Metroid/Super Metroid was faster-paced and more fun than the 3D Metroid Prime. I think Nintendo should have either (a) kept the side-scrolling adventure like Castlevania SOTN or (b) tried a third-person adventure like Resident Evil or Zelda. Either option would have kept the same rapid pace of the original games, instead of wasting hours scanning (yawn). Just thinking about it makes me want to turn off Metroid Prime and grab a more exciting piece of entertainment... like a book.
Originally posted by: BlackGriffen
That's because you don't have "tha skillz."
[The best part of MP? The ball levels. Rolling around and jumping over obstacles... that was classic Metroid goodness!]
Post by: kennyb27 on March 18, 2003, 06:26:17 AM
Post by: Luciferschild on March 18, 2003, 06:28:55 AM
Post by: kennyb27 on March 18, 2003, 07:37:10 AM
Quoteumm...Because that is less than 20 people. Obviously there are more people who didn't like the game. But that is a small minority. The game was worth the hype in my opinion.
It seems like half the people in this post didn't think mp was that great so why is it being hyped so much.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on March 18, 2003, 08:02:51 AM
I sat down and dedicated 2 hours to it, and I was thrilled when the time was finally up.
This is the most boring game I have ever played, I honestly cant stand it.
Quote
anyone who says metroid prime sucks is stupid period........not liking it is one thing, but u have to acknolege that it is a good game.
I disagree, I dont think its a good game. I didnt find the graphics impressive at all, and the cut scenes, especially the opening one were down right cheesy and ugly. I found the game play to be tedius and extremely repetitive, the scanning drove me nuts, the story was just plain predictable. and the damn control scheme had me looking at the controller more than the TV.
The only thing I really liked about the game was the sound, it truly kicked ass.
I did however end up played ED for nearly 5 solid hours that night, although it is graphically quite sad the game itself is brilliant. I also spent most of sunday on OoT, I cant believe how well nintendo dolled this up for the pre order, what a treat.
Post by: kennyb27 on March 18, 2003, 08:16:08 AM
QuoteI don't see how you can say this. Just the subtle things are impressive. Such as the raindrops splashing against the helmet as you look up to the skys in the Overworld. Or the condensation formed on Samus's visor when you pass under a mist or through a hot area. What about the water "rolling" off Samus's visor when you exit from underwater? All the worlds are distinctly different and every bit as impressive as the next or previous. There is the lush, green Overworld, the abandoned desert-like Chozo Ruins, the snow-covered Phendrana Drifts, and the lava-filled Magmoor Caverns. Each world requires its own type of environments, a feat impressive in itself.
I didnt find the graphics impressive at all
I can understand if you were to complain about the gameplay and that the game doesn't fit your style, but to jump on the graphics, I'm sorry, but I consider that ridiculous.
Post by: Moonwatcher on March 18, 2003, 08:44:12 AM
Hmm... Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion are both much shorter games than MP. Perhaps that is why you so easily got burnt out on MP, it is definately the most epic of the series. MP is much slower paced also. I have played through Metroid Prime twice since I got it, once on normal and then on hard. Both times were increadibly fun. I couldn't believe all of the stuff I missed on my first run through and greatly appreciated the extra challenge provided in the boss battles on hard mode. Which brings me to my only complaint, I found the game a little bit too easy, even on hard mode. I didn't rush through the game by any means, it took me over twenty hours my first time but there are points where I just glided through too easily. I just expected the enemies to be more aggresive. In the end I think that our differences over this game are purely a matter of taste. I simply cannot relate to your complaint that there was little motivation to move on. About Metroid Fusion, I love the game, it just dosn't feel very... Metroid to me. More like a hi-tech Castlevania.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on March 18, 2003, 09:15:20 AM
Let me be a little more clear.
There were indeed parts of the game where the graphics did some cool things, the water on the visor being one of them.
I just didnt find the overall look of the game very appealing. Everything had a plasticy fake look about it to me, I just didnt find anything that jumped out at me and made me say wow. A good example is on the 1st level when you are running/rolling back to the ship. The critters that bunch together near the tunnels looks like blobs of sawdust as you approach. I found there to be way to many instances where things just looked poor to me. Maybe I expected to much, either way I just didnt like it. I much prefer the pre rendered graphics of RE.
Post by: theaveng on March 18, 2003, 10:08:17 AM
QuoteI agree! Many games have been enhanced with video logs found laying around in storage. I remember that one Star Trek episode where the crew finds a derelict ship full of dessicated corpses, and they immediately pull the video logs. There, on the screen, was the living face of the 1000-yr-old corpse lying next to you. Metroid Prime could have used similar dramatic videos to enhance its format with grainy videos of pirates experimenting on insects and Chozos recording the death of their planet.
Originally posted by: GoldShadow1
I was thinking, what would be an interesting compromise between the log book storyline and cut scenes / dialog would be audio/video data that you can download. It could have, for example, a surveillance video of a recent attack by Chozo ghosts or something, and then have it black out at the last minute. Or it could have a surreal telepathic vision of a Chozo prophecy. It'd still retain the feeling of being alone on a mission, but I think it'd help strengthen the plot quite a bit.
That's the problem with GameCube's 1.5 gigabyte format. There simply isn't enough room to add audio/video files to Metroid Prime. If GameCube used standard-size, double-layer DVD with 8.5 gigabytes of space, then Nintendo could give us *video* logs of pirates and Chozos instead of just plain text.
Post by: kennyb27 on March 18, 2003, 10:24:56 AM
Post by: bamf226 on March 18, 2003, 10:25:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Reverse_Gecko
Don't get me wrong. I love metroid prime(ok i lied a little in the thread name). I think it is an excelent game in almost every way, but I think it has a major flaw. I really love metroid games all together, but I just hard a hard time fnishing metroid prime, and now im trying to beat it in hard mode but I'm at 10% and I dont feel like playing it anymore. But don't tell me its because I don't like the type of game it is because I abosolutly love metroid fusion, metroid 1, and super metroid.
It sounds to me that you find little to no replay value in the game and that is causing you much heartache, especially when you didn't enjoy it much the first time you played it. Playing a game over after making it harder isn't going to help you like the game when it was an emotional struggle the first time..
Post by: BlackGriffen on March 18, 2003, 11:17:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: theaveng
Ignoring your poor debate tactic of ad hominem (personal) attacks, I will maintain my original opinion: The 2D Metroid/Super Metroid was faster-paced and more fun than the 3D Metroid Prime. I think Nintendo should have either (a) kept the side-scrolling adventure like Castlevania SOTN or (b) tried a third-person adventure like Resident Evil or Zelda. Either option would have kept the same rapid pace of the original games, instead of wasting hours scanning (yawn). Just thinking about it makes me want to turn off Metroid Prime and grab a more exciting piece of entertainment... like a book.
[The best part of MP? The ball levels. Rolling around and jumping over obstacles... that was classic Metroid goodness!]
Damn, you mean this is a debate? I didn't realize that you had set yourself up as my adversary in a serious contest of intellectual capacity and wit. If you want the formal and adverserial approach to this discussion, then so be it. For starters, you're generalizing your experience to the whole population too readily. Rooms were too slow for you because of the time you spent exploring them. Just from my own experience, I can say that this is not true in general, and judging from the success of the game, not even for the majority of the population. There are three possible reasons I can think of for this: one, you don't have a quick eye for detail necessary to take in a room at a glance; two, you're excessively hyper (i.e. require constant stiumulus to keep your attemntion), at least more so than the population ar large; three, you're excessively paranoid about getting shot (possibly due to rapid deaths in PC based FPSs where you could look around rapidly, and it takes fewer hits to kill you). You'll note that I addressed all of these concerns in my original post in a far more informal, and frankly friendly, manner.
Moving on to the point about a lack of imagination. I meant what I said and I stand behind it, though I admit that I may have overlooked the possibility that your imagination is adequate and you just refuse or don't know how to engage it. I suppose TVs are the culprite, but people are far too ready to assumed that information and stories should be fed to them in quick little sound bites and dramatic scenes. With books and oral tales, people had to supply the imagery for themselves, and thus the act of following a tale was a mental exercise in and of itself. It was also far more common for people to actively engage in creating their own entertainment, because there was not the ready supply of mind numbing distraction a button push away. This, too, is a mental exercise that is healthy and encourages the imagination. The ability to paint a picture well that critics will like is not by itself proof of imagination, at least not of the kind that is necessary to get in to a character. Yes, what I described was a kind of acting (writ small) combined with improvisation. With no one else to please but myself, it isn't hard.
Honestly, I prefer the more colloquial form of communication. It's less time consuming for me (I can say more with fewer words because I don't need to elaborate so much), and I find more people are comfortable with it. So if you don't mind, Mr. high and mighty only halfway understands the meaning of "ad hominem," I think I'll stick with it.
BlackGriffen
Post by: theblindtree on March 18, 2003, 12:49:40 PM
Post by: theaveng on March 18, 2003, 03:35:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackGriffen
Damn, you mean this is a debate? I didn't realize that you had set yourself up as my adversary...
No I was merely objecting to you CHILDISH personal attacks on everyone on this forum. Telling people "you're stoopid and lack imaginashun" is how 5-yr-olds act, not adults. Try acting like the latter, not the former.
Post by: Duriez on March 18, 2003, 03:43:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
kenny
Let me be a little more clear.
There were indeed parts of the game where the graphics did some cool things, the water on the visor being one of them.
I just didnt find the overall look of the game very appealing. Everything had a plasticy fake look about it to me, I just didnt find anything that jumped out at me and made me say wow. A good example is on the 1st level when you are running/rolling back to the ship. The critters that bunch together near the tunnels looks like blobs of sawdust as you approach. I found there to be way to many instances where things just looked poor to me. Maybe I expected to much, either way I just didnt like it. I much prefer the pre rendered graphics of RE.
I've been playing video and computer games for a long time, and I was very impressed with MP's graphics. I am not trying to brag about how I've been playing video and PC games for a long time, I am just saying that I am good at noticing if a game has good graphics. As a package deal, the geometry, attention to detal, and art direction in MP is second to none on any console game if you ask me. There are so many polygons and there is so much attention to detail that it blows my mind everytime I play MP. And I don't buy that fake plasticy look thing you said. Did you like the grapchis in Halo? Becuase I say Halo has more of a fake plasticy look than MP but that's just my opinion. All video games have a fake plasticy look I think. Name me a video game that doesn't.
Post by: BlackGriffen on March 18, 2003, 05:07:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: theavengQuote
Originally posted by: BlackGriffen
Damn, you mean this is a debate? I didn't realize that you had set yourself up as my adversary...
No I was merely objecting to you CHILDISH personal attacks on everyone on this forum. Telling people "you're stoopid and lack imaginashun" is how 5-yr-olds act, not adults. Try acting like the latter, not the former.
Let's see, first of all I didn't attack everyone, or even anyone, really. This discussion is about people's perceptions of a video game. Every point I brought up was a valid question that would effect a persons ability to enjoy Metroid Prime. Granted, the tone I took was far from oblique, but none of what I said was an argumentum ad hominem. You see, in a discussion about perceptions, qualities that would cloud a person's perception are valid points of discussion, whether or not the person finds them offensive. The actual argumentum ad hominems came in response to my post when people made comments about me that are irrelevent even if they were true ("sign of maturity," "weak," "CHILDISH"). In fact the only real off topic attack I made was an oblique criticism of your taking on the role of "rules lawyer" and not even knowing the rules. I admit that I took an overly adverserial/mocking/playful tone, but none of what I said was an attack. I'll willingly apologize for that (my normal hangout has become rather rough and tumble over the last couple years, and I shouldn't have assumed that the people here would be used to it).
BlackGriffen
Post by: Nintendo_Pimp on March 18, 2003, 10:43:48 PM
(payd for by the why doesnt nintendo make more metroid games foundtion, a subsidiary of the why doesnt tnintendo make more earthbounnd games foundation)
Post by: Sir Daniel Fortesque on March 19, 2003, 07:32:41 AM
Post by: GoldShadow1 on March 19, 2003, 08:45:36 AM
Post by: theaveng on March 19, 2003, 09:05:08 AM
QuoteTHAT'S a personal attack/insult. Basically, you insulted anyone who didn't like Metroid Prime as stupid and "lacking imagination".
Originally posted by: BlackGriffen You people who didn't like the story have no imagination. It's a pity that you have to have stories spoon fed to you instead of creating your own. ... Lay off the caffeine, and dare to dream for yourself. It's better that way.
Attack ideas, not people.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on March 19, 2003, 11:47:07 AM
How can you base someones imagination or lack their of on a video game?
Imagination is used in the creation of the game not nessasarily when playing it. Yes, you can become immersed in the game, but this is due to the games elements drawing you in, not your imagination. Games are mainly visual, how does this leave any room for imagination?
For you to say that someone doesnt have an imagination because they dont like a certain game only shows flaws in your own judgement. I dont like prime because I find it brutally boring, plain and simple.
You seem intent on trying to prove how smart you are by using big words and belittleing people, I for one find your actions quite childish.
Its only a game.
Post by: mouse_clicker on March 19, 2003, 12:26:31 PM
No, it was an attack on people who flew through the game without scanning diddly squat, then said there was no story (like EW). There WAS a story and it was a very imaginative and very good story, but you only got it if you scanned the Pirate Logs and Chozo Lore (which was a very creative way of telling the story instead of through cut scenes). Sure the guy's comment was mean and way off-base, but it IS stupid for people to complain about the story they didn't even take the time to experience.
What *I* love is that everyone is all in support of "it's their opinion, don't bash them", yet some of those same people get really pissed off when the tables are turned. It's THEIR opinion that the story was severely lacking and it was HIS opinion that those people are too lazy and need to have the story fall on them. Why are THEY entitled to an opinion but HE isn't?
Post by: BlackGriffen on March 19, 2003, 01:10:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: theavengQuoteTHAT'S a personal attack/insult. Basically, you insulted anyone who didn't like Metroid Prime as stupid and "lacking imagination".
Originally posted by: BlackGriffen You people who didn't like the story have no imagination. It's a pity that you have to have stories spoon fed to you instead of creating your own. ... Lay off the caffeine, and dare to dream for yourself. It's better that way.
Attack ideas, not people.
If you had just said, "I don't like the game," the most I could have said was, "That's nice." Specific critiques of MP were brought up that permitted me to make said judgements about the critiquers. Like I said, I admit that I presented the content in an offensive manner, but the content in and of itself was not an attack.
Say, for instance, a blind man was critiquing Saving Private Ryan as a horrible movie. So much of the power of that movie came from the visuals, that it would be fair to say that a blind man wouldn't "get it" the same way someone who can see can. Is it an insult to say to a blind man, "But you can't see the movie, how can you judge it fairly?" Though the form of my original post was closer to, "What are you, fuckin' blind?" in form. Again, I apologize for using an abbrasive tone, but I stand by the content of what I said.
BlackGriffen
Edit:fixed italics tag.
Post by: BlackGriffen on March 19, 2003, 01:27:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
Black Griffen
How can you base someones imagination or lack their of on a video game?
Imagination is used in the creation of the game not nessasarily when playing it. Yes, you can become immersed in the game, but this is due to the games elements drawing you in, not your imagination. Games are mainly visual, how does this leave any room for imagination?
See, that's where you and I differ. I don't sit around and wait for the game to draw me in. I dive in, actively, and a bad game is one that pushes me out, or that hinders my "freedom of motion" within the universe of the game. See, there are two halves to a game: creating and playing. Both halves require imagination and an active engagement to be truly fulfilling. If you wait for the game to draw you in, you're not playing a game. Drawing you in is something passive entertainments do, like TV and movies. Games should be inviting, but not blatant, and have form without rigidity. The really good ones will also have depth greater than can be accessed passively. That is what Metroid Prime does.
So I hope you can now see why the criticism that the game lacks story can be taken as evidence for a lack of imagination.
Quote
For you to say that someone doesnt have an imagination because they dont like a certain game only shows flaws in your own judgement. I dont like prime because I find it brutally boring, plain and simple.
No, I can point to a lack of imagination based on the specific arguments presented, like I just did above. A good game is like a good book: it reads you at the same time you read it. You can tell a lot about a person just by what they see in art (including video games).
Quote
You seem intent on trying to prove how smart you are by using big words and belittleing people, I for one find your actions quite childish.
Believe it or not, but this is closer to how I talk and think than what I put in my original post. I was trying to be playful, and maybe get a laugh, and I didn't use this formal tone because it is hardly conducive to that. I also do not intend to belittle (except for my rules lawyer comments), I intended to encourage thought, which I obviously failed at doing with my first post.
BlackGriffen
P.S. Please bear in mind that the last sentence is not meant to imply that you don't think, it is meant to point out a failure on my part because of my poor choice in how I expressed my ideas.
Post by: theaveng on March 19, 2003, 01:34:38 PM
QuoteYou argue the critique... you DON'T attack the person. For example, someone says:
Originally posted by: BlackGriffenIf you had just said, "I don't like the game," the most I could have said was, "That's nice." Specific critiques of MP were brought up that permitted me to make said judgements about the critiquers. Like I said, I admit that I presented the content in an offensive manner, but the content in and of itself was not an attack.
"MP didn't have a story." And you can reply:
"It did have a story. The story was revealed through the scanner. Did you forget to scan?" or something similar.
You attack the statement. You do NOT say, "Your stoopid an' lack imaginashun," like a 5-yr-old. You argue the FACTS, not attack people.
.
.
.
Anyway, I originally said I didn't enjoy MP's wandering into a room and then standing around and looking. I still maintain by that opinion. I suspect that's why I dislike First-Person Shooters in general. Wandering around in dark, dismal caves trying to figure out where to go next sucks for me. I prefer the 2D platforming of Super Metroid or the third-person platforming of Mario. That's just my own personal preference.
Now, someone responded, "You have to do scanning in Super Metroid" which is a valid point. But because each room was small, and you could see the entire room with a single glance, it didn't feel like such a chore. Super Metroid was much faster-paced for me. (NOTE: That person critiqued my argument... he didn't insult me. Notice the difference.)
And finally, I commented that MP would have been a *lot* more interesting if there was less text (like a history book...yawn) and more video logs. I think that would have created a more varied atmosphere and helped bring the Chozo to life. If you could *see and hear* the Chozo you'd feel more compelled to complete the mission and help them recover their planet.
Post by: mouse_clicker on March 19, 2003, 01:44:03 PM
Maybe YOU'D be more compelled, but personally I thought it was eerier having the Chozo civilization on Tallon IV destroyed and all that was left of them being the records of their prophecies left behind. Remember, all the Chozos on the planet ARE dead or have faded into spectres. I liked the idea of Samus being kind of like an archaeologist exploring the ruins of a great race of people. The text fit more in with the notion that this is all that's left of the non-physical portion of the Chozo civlization. It also made you fell really alone, that Samus was the only person there (even when you met the Space Pirates they were few and far between). Really, if you want to "see and hear" the Chozo, picture them in your mind. Metroid Prime leaves much of the details of their race to the imagination. So use that little portion of your brain and *visualize* the Chozos yourself. That's what BlackGriffen meant about you guys not having much imagination, and I'm really starting to think he was right.
Post by: matt oz on March 19, 2003, 01:55:11 PM
As soon as I see a misspelling, or bad grammar in a message, I stop reading, and I don't think I've ever seen that in one of yours. So thank you for a breath of fresh air on these normally inane and idiotic boards.
And in case anyone is interested, my opinions on Metroid Prime:
-I think it's like an Oscar movie that not everyone can appreciate (or dare I say get?)
-It's the sort of game, that for me, I need to be in the mood to play. Back in December, I got stuck in the Phazon Mines, and stopped playing, literally, until 2 weeks ago. Now I'm on the Omega Pirate, and once again, stuck in the Phazon Mines.
-In order to understand the brilliant and extremely well-written story, one must READ, which seems to be a lost art. I was never fond of cut scenes, and I think it's ingenious that in 2003, a story in a fully 3-D game is presented fully in text.
Post by: mouse_clicker on March 19, 2003, 01:59:54 PM
I'm kinda surprised you haven't noticed any spelling mistakes in my posts, though- I chicken peck when I type, but I do it REALLY fast (like 120 wpm if I'm into it). I often hit two keys at once or hit one key before the other and often have to go back and change my spelling so it's not atrocious. I usually catch it before I post, but a lot of times I don't.
Post by: BlackGriffen on March 19, 2003, 02:31:46 PM
Also, I never called you stupid. Unimaginative, only if you claimed MP had no story (which you didn't). Slow on visual uptake, yep. Lacking in attention span, definitely. Over cautious, you betcha. Stupid, no. Arrogant, only after you tore in to me with "childish." Are you saying that someone with the qualities I described is stupid? Because this is hardly the case. Imagination of the sort I described is definitely not a requisite for intelligence. Speed of visual recognition has nothing to do with overall intelligence either (speed of thought in general can be easily compensated for with depth). Lots of people have short attention spans.
Also, cubed-canuk demonstrates why I try (and all too often fail) to speak with a colloqual tone: when I use the words that most naturally come to my mind (as I am now), I get accused of lording it over people.
BlackGriffen
Edits: Bah, I'm trying to type too damn fast.
Post by: mouse_clicker on March 19, 2003, 02:41:01 PM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on March 20, 2003, 08:26:06 AM
Are you trying to make me laugh?
You seem to think to can judge a person by their preferance in video games?
When in fact all you are doing is showing flaws in your own fragile charachter.
I dont like Prime, it has nothing to do with attention span, imagination or visual skills.
I simply dont like it. It doesnt appeal to me. I dont play games to read for hours on end. I have a an extensive library if I choose to read.
Metroid just didnt do it for me, in any way, shape or form.
So if you wish to continue to use Metroid Prime as a way to read an individual, to determine their character, or as a tool for any other reason. I say all the power to you, because in the end it doesnt mean jack.
Its only a game, too bad you think it means so much more.
Post by: Naiku on March 20, 2003, 09:46:54 AM
. Anyways I like to collect so exploring to collect was fun though I wish there were a few scenes where there were puzzles and perhaps a little FMV to help you solve them. The game I know isn't a puzzle game, but for me (I'm more into rpg's though I have played and do enjoy all the Metroid games) I think It would be better if the puzzles made you think a little more.Of course we know the reason there are no puzzles is because samus can only do three things, roll up into a ball, shoot, and jump (essentially everything else she does is an extension of one of these). Now that doesn't seem quite right she still has one free hand (the other arm IS a gun of course), and lots of other hi-tech tools they could add. I think It would be interesting if they included something in the grapling beam to make it work like a tractor beam to bring objects toward you, allowing you to move them to get them out of the way, or some other tools that can be used to solve the puzzles.
Once again I realize this is supposed to be "realistic in the universe Samus lives in" and since she's invading an enemy base the base has to be designed so it's functional to the enemy while trying to keep the "unwanted guests" out. Of course some of these puzzles could involve getting around wreckage "which you may have caused while fighting an end boss," or special door locks to keep you out that you have do something to break (other than simply get the right weapon and shoot the door, or scan the key pad). I know this is getting ranty now, and I love the feel of the games, which most of these additions COULD spoil, but I think if they were executed properly they could increase samus's capacity by adding new add-ons for her suit (or fusion suit if it turns out that she keeps that), and add better and more complex puzzles (not that there wern't any good puzzles but for me they simply weren't good enough).
Then of course this game IS about the fighting so maybe puzzles would mess it up?
but what am I talking about this is about the use of story...I think that's unneccessary but story could be implemented better in some instances. Actually the only videos I care about is when Samus gets an upgrade I think each upgrade should have a short 1 - 2 minute clip that demonstrates her putting this onto her suit, powering it up and testing it for the first time to kinda give you a feel how it works, with a kinda martial arts feel to it...well maybe not but when I say martial arts feel I'm reminded of the very first scene when she makes a diving leap off of her ship to land on the space station.
ok I'm ranting now and most of my ideas were probably bad so I'll stop now (I've said that before haven't I?)
Post by: bamf226 on March 20, 2003, 10:50:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: theaveng
And finally, I commented that MP would have been a *lot* more interesting if there was less text (like a history book...yawn) and more video logs. I think that would have created a more varied atmosphere and helped bring the Chozo to life. If you could *see and hear* the Chozo you'd feel more compelled to complete the mission and help them recover their planet.
I disagree with this. By not seeing the Chozo, the player has the opportunity to let his/her imagination run wild. Were the Chozo humanoid, bug-like, etc. What did they eat? Where did they go? By scanning what they left behind, each player is able to put the pieces together. Would you say an Indiana Jones game would be less interesting if you had to decipher ancient manuscripts to progress through a game to retrieve an ancient treasure? Scanning is definitely a great concept in the game to learn more about the world you are on and its history.
But, I realize that in today's world, everyone is always in a hurry. They don't have the time to dive into a book, let alone read entries for a video game. Society in general wants information 2 minutes ago instead of waiting.
Post by: mouse_clicker on March 20, 2003, 11:04:50 AM
You just proved you're a hypocrite! How can you judge BlackGriffen's character and personality from a judgement he made about someone? If you ask me, that makes YOU just as bad as you're claiming HE is. If you're going to tell people how to act, you might want to act the same way yourself.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on March 20, 2003, 11:20:17 AM
I dont know him from a hole in the ground.
He chose to attack people based on their opinion of a stupid video game. IMO anyone who does this this is a tad immature. This is about the game, and about what people think of the game, not each other. To judge someone based on their opinion of something as stupid as a video game is idiotic. I judged him on his comments that were directed at other people, because he brought people and thier personal traits into this conversation, and they clearly do not belong here.
I like NHL hockey 2003, you may like Time splitters, and so and so may like frogger, this is all a matter of taste, and has no relation to anything else what so ever period.
These are games, simple stupid games that are meant to be played for fun and entertainment. To many people treat them like there are life and death issues that can be used to guage ones intelligence, personality or manhood. I find this completely and utterly insane.
Post by: theaveng on March 20, 2003, 01:05:06 PM
Post by: theaveng on March 20, 2003, 01:05:08 PM
Post by: theaveng on March 20, 2003, 01:05:11 PM
Post by: theaveng on March 20, 2003, 01:05:18 PM
Post by: theaveng on March 20, 2003, 01:05:20 PM
Post by: theaveng on March 20, 2003, 01:06:07 PM
QuoteYou would have a good point if this was a book, but it isn't. This is a video game... key word: video. They should be using videos to tell the story.
Originally posted by: bamf226QuoteI disagree with this. By not seeing the Chozo, the player has the opportunity to let his/her imagination run wild.
Originally posted by: theaveng
And finally, I commented that MP would have been a *lot* more interesting if there was less text (like a history book...yawn) and more video logs. I think that would have created a more varied atmosphere and helped bring the Chozo to life. If you could *see and hear* the Chozo you'd feel more compelled to complete the mission and help them recover their planet.
Also, why would a technologically advanced society like the Chozos use text? It makes more sense that they, like us, would use cameras to record important events. Given that the temple had holographic images jutting out of stone obelisks, it's clear the Chozo had the ability to record video logs rather than inscriptions.
And finally, using videos doesn't eliminate the player's responsibility to piece all the info together. You still have to piece together all the disjointed videos into a coherent history. Like I said earlier, there was several Star Trek episodes that used the "piece video logs together to solve the mystery" tactic very effectively. Metroid Prime could have done the same.
Anyway, in Final Fantasy 7 and Parasite Eve, we see video flashbacks to *very* effectively reveal the past. In my opinion, Metroid Prime should have done the flashback-style recorded in video logs to bring the past to life. Like I said at the beginning, this is a video game, not a book, and the creators should take full advantage of that video aspect for maximum impact.
.
.
.
I think I should end this by saying that I *did enjoy* Metroid Prime... sort of. As others said, it has beautiful atmosphere with fantastic sound and video... but it lacks the excitement of earlier Super Metroid. The 3D setting was one reason. Using old-fashioned text instead of video was the other.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on March 20, 2003, 01:48:11 PM
Is there any spoken dialogue in the US version of the game? If there isn't, there should. If Nintendo refuse to have cutscenes, and want to use text, they should at least consider using voices.
And for us, is there any spoken dialogue in the PAL version of the game? There are gonna be some improvements for the PAL version, so what are they? I forget.
Post by: BlackGriffen on March 20, 2003, 02:14:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
black griffen
Are you trying to make me laugh?
You seem to think to can judge a person by their preferance in video games?
When in fact all you are doing is showing flaws in your own fragile charachter.
I dont like Prime, it has nothing to do with attention span, imagination or visual skills.
I simply dont like it. It doesnt appeal to me. I dont play games to read for hours on end. I have a an extensive library if I choose to read.
Metroid just didnt do it for me, in any way, shape or form.
First of all, your preference didn't tell me anything. You're reasons behind the preference told me a lot. You said the game was too slow, for instance. We played the same game, and I didn't think it was too slow. That tells me that you are more hyper than myself or you yourself were playing the game too slow (being more cautious than I). I then used MP's popularity and sales to guess that most people who played the game didn't think it was too slow. From that, I can make some good guesses about why you thought it was too slow.
The fact that you didn't like Prime says nothing. The fact that you claimed Prime was slow speaks volumes about you compared to the people who don't agree with you.
Quote
So if you wish to continue to use Metroid Prime as a way to read an individual, to determine their character, or as a tool for any other reason. I say all the power to you, because in the end it doesnt mean jack.
Its only a game, too bad you think it means so much more.
If you still don't get it despite my repeated attempts to explain my reasoning, I can only conclude three possibilities: one, I'm not communicating effectively (I'm not typing in Greek, am I?); two, you've closed your mind and won't honestly think about what I say no matter what comes out of my mouth, in which case more conversation is futile; three, you have some sort of learning deficiency overall. I doubt that last one but I cannot rule it out. At any rate, I'm through trying to explain this to you.
Quote
I like NHL hockey 2003, you may like Time splitters, and so and so may like frogger, this is all a matter of taste, and has no relation to anything else what so ever period.
I couldn't let this one slide. You don't know anything about statistics, do you? I can't tell anything about you based on whether you like one game, but knowing which games you like
and which you dislike can let me make very good guesses about you. For instance, assuming NHL Hockey is a fast paced game (safe assumption, I think), I can say with even more certainty that you're the kind of person who likes constant stimulus (aka short attention span). I can also guess that you like "twitch" games like Quake and Unreal, though you may dislike FPSes for other reasons.
Now, as I said, if the person's characteristics are relevent to the discussion, as in this case they are, then it is just fine to bring said characteristics in to the discussion.
BlackGriffen
BlackGriffen
Post by: BlackGriffen on March 20, 2003, 02:32:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: theaveng
BlackGriffen: You insulted people on this forum, and you can't even admit that what you did was wrong. I truly feel sorry for you.
I said I was wrong for using an overly aggressive tone, and I apologized twice. I defended the substance behind what I said because I think it was relevant and right. I will not say more on this matter.
QuoteQuoteYou would have a good point if this was a book, but it isn't. This is a video game... key word: video. They should be using videos to tell the story.
Originally posted by: bamf226QuoteI disagree with this. By not seeing the Chozo, the player has the opportunity to let his/her imagination run wild.
Originally posted by: theaveng
And finally, I commented that MP would have been a *lot* more interesting if there was less text (like a history book...yawn) and more video logs. I think that would have created a more varied atmosphere and helped bring the Chozo to life. If you could *see and hear* the Chozo you'd feel more compelled to complete the mission and help them recover their planet.
Believe it or not they were called video games before they had videos in them. Video is simply a synonym for visual, actually (coming from the Latin word "videre" which means "to see"), though in common use it is reserved for moving visuals. Last I looked, MP definitely has moving visuals in it. Ergo, cut scenes are not necessary for the game to have the name "video game." For instance, 90-99% of the story in Metal Gear Solid 2 is delivered via audio.
Quote
Also, why would a technologically advanced society like the Chozos use text? It makes more sense that they, like us, would use cameras to record important events. Given that the temple had holographic images jutting out of stone obelisks, it's clear the Chozo had the ability to record video logs rather than inscriptions.
Text is longer lived, doesn't require a special player, or special recorder. It also doesn't require a power source, and if you're leaving messages for someone in the future, as the Chozo were, you shouldn't depend on the presence of a functioning power source.
Quote
And finally, using videos doesn't eliminate the player's responsibility to piece all the info together. You still have to piece together all the disjointed videos into a coherent history. Like I said earlier, there was several Star Trek episodes that used the "piece video logs together to solve the mystery" tactic very effectively. Metroid Prime could have done the same.
It's a waste of space to make videos when text will serve the same function (in both the game's reality, and our own where cut-scenes take up a lot of disc space).
BlackGriffen
Post by: kennyb27 on March 20, 2003, 02:40:56 PM
QuoteTermin8Anakin, I couldn't disagree more. I think spoken dialogue would ruin the experience. I believe this is the same for Link and Mario (except for some various grunts from both). We all have sounds in our mind (there we go, back to the imagination issue
Is there any spoken dialogue in the US version of the game? If there isn't, there should. If Nintendo refuse to have cutscenes, and want to use text, they should at least consider using voices.
) of what these characters sound like. Nintendo doesn't refuse to have cutscenes, other than the "video logs" that theaveng keeps refering to, Nintendo doesn't have any use for them right now. I liked Nintendo/Retro's idea of the text and reading, it worked well.
Post by: Bloodworth on March 20, 2003, 03:14:28 PM
(I suppose someone's going to want me to give a "reason" for locking this so: It's become a flame war with all kinds of petty arguments and things getting thrown in.)
