Post by: MegaByte on March 11, 2007, 08:58:20 AM
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=13085
Post by: Caterkiller on March 11, 2007, 09:39:09 AM
Remember we got some fake info about Zelda and Brawl some months ago and it detailed how we would fight and swing our sword in 1st person? Now it doesn't seem so far off. Except that interview made it seem as though the 1st person experience was like no other in terms of good quality.
Fantastic read!
Post by: MegaByte on March 11, 2007, 09:39:38 AM
Quote
The controls we as developers had decided to implement in Zelda were ones that we had forced into the game in order to take advantage of the Wii controls. I had realized that I hadn’t worried about making it easy to understand and intuitive and making people want to play the game; all those things relate. The feeling that I had that people would have to get used to the controls when working on switching controls over to the Wii was evidence of this, and I realized that I was forcing these controls onto the user. It wasn’t a Zelda that would have been received well by the end user. I felt as though Zelda had been left behind by the other launch titles, and having hit rock-bottom, Miyamoto and I began rethinking the Wii controls completely.
Post by: that Baby guy on March 11, 2007, 09:43:39 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 11, 2007, 10:09:21 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 11, 2007, 10:12:03 AM
I especially liked the story at the end, and how the kid didn't want to leave the village in the beginning of the game. I was a lot like that when I was a kid, too. I still am, in a way. Obviously I'm not afraid of monsters, and I'm plenty good at even the hardest parts of games, but I still love running around the town centers and peaceful areas of games (towns in Zelda, the square in Mario Sunshine, etc).
Thanks for this, I enjoyed it.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 11, 2007, 10:15:01 AM
Post by: mantidor on March 11, 2007, 02:06:43 PM
And Phatom Hourglass looks really awesome.
Post by: Smoke39 on March 11, 2007, 02:45:24 PM
Quote
This might seem trivial, but the act of shaking the remote is a control that the player physically experiences, and if it doesn’t match up with what is happening on the screen, then it becomes something that has no effect at all, and ultimately this becomes something that is considered extraneous control.
So naturally they merely map "remote shake" to "B" rather than acknowledge direction. Sounds pretty ineffective and extraneous to me.
Post by: Djunknown on March 11, 2007, 03:05:44 PM
Quote
we announced that the North American version, which was released at the beginning of the same year, had sold up to a million copies. But the truth of the matter was that the game did not fare as well in Japan
Chalk that up to Gamestop's pre-order incentive of getting OoT. They had 400k pre-orders or so, plus 600k, Wind Waker made it to platinum status in no time. This happened in the magical month of 2003, when the SP was introduced, along with the new iterations of Pokemon. They closed out their fiscal year with a bang.
about connectivity:
Quote
It was too difficult to convince the consumer that they wanted to play the game.
Can't speak for Japan, but add to the fact that online play in North America was becoming standardized, and cheaper in comparison to connectivity, Nintendo lost out *Cue Penny-Arcade strip from the peanut gallery*. I enjoyed the hell out of Crystal Chronicles, but couldn't get other people to play with it. But they were inviting me to throw down on Xbox Live and PS2 games.
Quote
That’s when I decided that if we didn’t have an effective and immediate solution, the only thing we could do was to give the healthy North American market the Zelda that they wanted.
Good call. Double good call that Miyamoto and the higher-ups didn't fight this. Triple good call for having Reggie make his appearance in 2k4, presenting this.
Zelda's getting another multiplayer player portion (with online no-less), and no one's complaining about it straying from the franchise. Yet when there's talk/wishing of Metroid having multiplayer, people start bitching left and right about not being true to its roots [/hypocrisy].
Quote
“This direct control is exactly what Twilight Princess needs in order to penetrate a market experiencing gamer drift."
A)Call me a crazy codger, but I find hard to believe that having two versions of Zelda was thought of from the top down, as opposed from the higher ups. The theory that the 'Cube was on its deathbed, and the Wii needed a surefire hit makes more sense than what Aonuma spouted off.
B)I know he talked about his son got into Zelda (with a little assistance from his wife), but the only thing that newbie friendly was the controls. Otherwise, it was your typical Zelda, puzzles and all. Not very non-gamer friendly.
Quoted from the slide:
"If Zelda can be played on both Wii and the Gamecube, won't users be happy even though they have to wait until 2006?"
*Cue Mantidor and Co.*
Quoted from another slide:
"You need to get used to the Wii controls. Players can't do that with a show floor demo."
Game reviewers should have that taped to their TV when reviewing Wii games what I just bolded.
His retrospective on TP in general hearkens back to his GDC 2k4 phrase "Reality over realism." His explanation of sword controls exemplifies this.
Quote
However, in comparison, sales figures were not what I had been hoping for in Japan, and so I believe that many users still have the impression that Zelda was too complicated and therefore too hard to play.
Wii Sports. 'Nuff said.
Overall, its good to hear from Aonuma (via Bill Trinen). With TP, he's shown that he can handle the Zelda franchise, with a little bit of Miyamoto's 'Upending the tea table' tactic. If Zelda DS has an online multiplayer portion, why not the next Wii version? If they're re-writing the rules of Zelda, anything is possible. Nothing should be ruled out.
EDIT:some spelling and grammatical fixes.
Post by: MegaByte on March 11, 2007, 04:53:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Djunknown
Quoted from another slide:
"You need to get used to the Wii controls. Players can't do that with a show floor demo."
Game reviewers should have that taped to their TV when reviewing Wii games what I just bolded.
Should we? He made the point that that type of attitude was wrong to have as a developer.
Quote
Originally posted by: Djunknown
Overall, its good to hear from Aonuma (via Bill Trinen).
Oh, Bill Trinen didn't do the translating, he just introduced him.
Post by: mantidor on March 11, 2007, 05:23:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Djunknown
Zelda's getting another multiplayer player portion (with online no-less), and no one's complaining about it straying from the franchise. Yet when there's talk/wishing of Metroid having multiplayer, people start bitching left and right about not being true to its roots [/hypocrisy].
Metroid and Zelda are very different, I don't think you can compare them like that, Metroid is much more based on mood, but if Nintendo aproaches multiplayer like they are aproaching it for Phantom Hourglass I wouldn't mind, they just really need to stay away from Hunter's ideas as much as possible.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 12, 2007, 04:48:47 AM
Though I don't like the attitude about Zelda being more accessible because even with gamers I never really saw Zelda as having that same universal appeal that something like Mario has. Since the first game came out I have met people who play action games, fighting games, first person shooters, racing games and sports games that don't really get Zelda. Zelda is quite complex. It's a thinking man's game. It doesn't have set levels. In the 2D days most games involved going from left to right without getting killed. Zelda gave you a whole world to explore with no set boundaries. Hell the first Zelda is intimidating even to people who like Zelda games because it gives no indication of where to go and what to do. So making it more accessible seems counter-intuitive. This isn't a series that's for everybody and it never was. And the controls were never even the issue. It is not widely accessible because of the core game design. Change that and it isn't even Zelda anymore.
Metroid is the same thing. Would it make even the slightest bit of sense to make a non-gamer friendly "for everybody" Metroid? No. To make Metroid for everyone means no difficulty, no backtracking, no figuring out where to go on your own, no hidden areas that have to be found to beat the game. In other words nothing that makes Metroid what it is could stay in.
Phantom Hourglass looks cool but its controls look like the most blantant forced touchscreen usage yet. And it's all for nothing because any "everyone" Zelda game would be boring as all hell for any Zelda fan and Zelda at its core desing is too complicated to have true mass appeal.
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 12, 2007, 07:11:13 AM
I'm not sure if Nintendo is just saying this to try and make it sound like the blue ocean strategy is necessary, but it sounds like gaming is genuinely declining (or was until the DS showed up).
From the numbers we've seen, the non-game types are definitely better sellers than the regular gamer games so I've no reason to not believe Nintendo's statements on this matter.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 12, 2007, 09:12:35 AM
I find it quite ironic that Japan was largely responsible for most of my favourite games and thus for getting me interested in gaming in the first place, and now has shifted Nintendo's focus and is making me lose interest in gaming.
The whole thing is incredibly illogical. North American publishers have the reputation for making the same sports games every year and crappy licenced games and bland, uninteresting sludge. Hell some American publishers almost seem to base their whole business on tricking people into buying crap. If any market was to drift away it seemed like the North American one would be it after getting bored of EA's bullsh!t. Japanese publishers in comparison have traditionally been more consistent in terms of quality and known for being more creative and original. Maybe since we're outside of Japan we just don't get all the crap. Though it's probably all the damn RPGs.
But then Japan likes anime so obviously something has always been a little "off" over there.
Post by: SixthAngel on March 12, 2007, 10:24:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Though I don't like the attitude about Zelda being more accessible because even with gamers I never really saw Zelda as having that same universal appeal that something like Mario has. Since the first game came out I have met people who play action games, fighting games, first person shooters, racing games and sports games that don't really get Zelda. Zelda is quite complex. It's a thinking man's game. It doesn't have set levels. In the 2D days most games involved going from left to right without getting killed. Zelda gave you a whole world to explore with no set boundaries. Hell the first Zelda is intimidating even to people who like Zelda games because it gives no indication of where to go and what to do. So making it more accessible seems counter-intuitive. This isn't a series that's for everybody and it never was. And the controls were never even the issue. It is not widely accessible because of the core game design. Change that and it isn't even Zelda anymore.
Thinking has never been the problem with bringing in gamers or losing them. One of Nintendo's biggest sellers is Brain Training, they certainly aren't trying to shy away from thinking. The orginal zelda was a hit with many people who just started playing games (me, my adult neighbors) despite having little to no direction. There is no reason the Zelda's of today that actually gives directions should scare besides the controls.
Nintendo is saying that controls detract not any part of the actual game. There are tons of menus and buttons and items that need to be mapped to said buttons. Simple controls will help.
Post by: Bloodworth on March 12, 2007, 10:25:01 AM
DS (Click the button at the bottom for screens.)
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/ajzj/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/aofj/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/amyj/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/aeyj/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/ag6j/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/a3kj/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/aqcj/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/a2fj/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/ajmj/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/aqbj/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/afqj/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/ar3j/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/ao7j/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/software/ae6j/index.html
Wii
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/software/rg4j/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/software/rgij/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/software/rd9j/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/software/rtrj/index.html
Post by: IceCold on March 12, 2007, 10:29:38 AM
Post by: Kairon on March 12, 2007, 10:43:22 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: that Baby guy on March 12, 2007, 10:52:33 AM
Nice name, maybe there isn't something I understand about it?
Post by: KDR_11k on March 12, 2007, 07:18:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
I'm interested in that Wii train game..
That's Densha de Go, looking at the screenshots I can't help but think that it needs HDR (or at least a lightmap that causes similar contrast differences). It looks very close but the olde standard lighting system hurts the realism a lot.
Though if you want a train simulator you should look into the PC section of your game stores, while I heard that train simulators aren't big in the US our shelves here are so full of them that at least one or two have to be on yours, too.
Post by: Kairon on March 13, 2007, 04:59:19 AM
Nintendo, hire me! I can do it! I've been training all my life to be chibi-moto!
Oh, and that trailer finally sold me on PH whereas before I was a big EH.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 13, 2007, 09:24:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
*sigh* I still don't trust Aonouma with Zelda. Reading that makes me appreciate how much trouble Nintendo is having with the franchise, and just how far they still have to go in order to be independent of Miyamoto.
Nintendo, hire me! I can do it! I've been training all my life to be chibi-moto!
Oh, and that trailer finally sold me on PH whereas before I was a big EH.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I have complete faith in Aonouma he has yet to make a bad Zelda game and has in fact created two of my favorites, TP and WW. With that said I'm not sure about Phatom Hourglass because of the touch controls!
Post by: IceCold on March 13, 2007, 01:58:33 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on March 13, 2007, 02:42:54 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on March 13, 2007, 04:46:28 PM
In addition to that, it seems like Mario uses a lot more moves, or at least has immediate access to a lot more moves, than Link has ever had. Traditionally, it seems like the "A" = sword, "B" = equipped item has been the way to go with Link, especially with the 2D Zeldas, even though there were a few extra possible button options. With this, once again, Zelda games seem to be a good candidate for this style of play interface compared to the Mario Platformers.
If this were to be a Zelda in the third person, then I would disagree with the play style as well, but it isn't, so I am intrigued.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 13, 2007, 04:58:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
I don't see the benefit of the touch controls at all.
So you didn't watch the trailer? Drawing a path for your boomerang alone is worth looking forward to the other uses of the touch screen... =|
Post by: Smoke39 on March 13, 2007, 05:38:18 PM
Bill: Drawing paths for the boomerang makes sense enough to me. It's controlling Link with the stylus is what I don't see the point of.
Post by: IceCold on March 13, 2007, 05:45:03 PM
QuoteThen why the hell did you make that comparison?
thatguy: Thank you for disregarding the "Of course, it would be much more awkward in SM64 than in a 2D Zelda game" part of my post.
Post by: Smoke39 on March 13, 2007, 05:59:33 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on March 13, 2007, 06:06:46 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on March 13, 2007, 06:14:44 PM
Post by: Urkel on March 13, 2007, 06:21:25 PM
Remember Metroid Prime Hunters?
Post by: Smoke39 on March 13, 2007, 06:46:28 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 13, 2007, 06:59:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
I guess it does make sense for consistency. But it's gonna take a lot more than quaint boomerang tricks to get my attention.
Actually you drive your boat by tracing your path, so that isn't a quaint boomerang trick!
Post by: Ian Sane on March 14, 2007, 04:13:08 AM
Even the boomerang stuff doesn't seem that amazing to me. It's a cool idea but it isn't worth having to pull Link around. Plus if you have that much control over the boomerang then you're going to require that much control to solve puzzles which ironically will make the game more complex. Not that I care but it seems to go against Nintendo's whole reasoning for touchscreen controls.
I'll give it a chance because it's Zelda and I love Zelda. I want this game to be great, I'm just really worried it's going to be a huge chore to control.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on March 14, 2007, 04:29:06 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 14, 2007, 04:38:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Plus if you have that much control over the boomerang then you're going to require that much control to solve puzzles which ironically will make the game more complex. Not that I care but it seems to go against Nintendo's whole reasoning for touchscreen controls.
Why do you think Nintendo is trying to change all of their series into non-games? Zelda has always been for the hardcore gaming crowd, and it's not changing...Ninty is merely going for a new and unique control method (and it will ultimately end up great, this is Zelda afterall...)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 14, 2007, 05:34:33 AM
Aonuma stated very specifically his intentions to make Zelda more accessible in his interview with NWR.
Post by: Bloodworth on March 14, 2007, 06:40:16 AM
I'm a little worried that Aonuma may be too focused on trying to draw in players that aren't interested in Zelda. Miyamoto talked about how he actively fought to keep the original from holding people's hands too much. At the same time though, I think anyone would be worried that a game that took dozens of staff members several years to complete is getting outsold by a title like Wii Play in Japan.
Post by: vudu on March 14, 2007, 06:54:12 AM
QuoteWii Play comes with a second remote; Zelda doesn't. Mystery solved.
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
I think anyone would be worried that a game that took dozens of staff members several years to complete is getting outsold by a title like Wii Play in Japan.
Post by: darknight06 on March 14, 2007, 07:08:19 AM
Post by: vudu on March 14, 2007, 07:30:43 AM
Plus, a lot of Japan's sales for Zelda was for GCN, which isn't counted on Media Crate. So we really have no way of knowing how many copies the game has truly sold in Japan.
Post by: IceCold on March 14, 2007, 07:31:53 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 14, 2007, 07:56:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Why do you think Nintendo is trying to change all of their series into non-games?"
Aonuma stated very specifically his intentions to make Zelda more accessible in his interview with NWR.
As Bloodworth said, there's a HUGE difference between making a game more accessible and dumbing it down or changing the formula...
Post by: vudu on March 14, 2007, 08:05:59 AM
QuoteYes, online, directly from Nintendo. Which is why I said it's not counted by Media Crate.
Originally posted by: IceCold
Wasn't it only available online over there?
Post by: IceCold on March 14, 2007, 01:50:12 PM
