Post by: Jonnyboy117 on February 09, 2007, 04:12:24 PM
I want to start off with some rhetorical (and not at all bitter) questions for Nintendo.
Let's back up for a second. Clearly, the Wii is a great system and already a big success for Nintendo. I'm enthusiastic about many upcoming games, both casual and hardcore. For that matter, there are a lot of things Nintendo has done right with the Wii's online features. Virtual Console is an excellent service that's only going to get better over time. The browser, forecast channel, and especially news channel are all really cool features that we are getting for free. And so far, Nintendo has made good use of the online function to update the system firmware as needed, with the potential for even more improvements in the future.
On the DS front, Nintendo has delivered on the promise of a totally free online matchmaking service, and although there aren't a lot of games that support Nintendo WiFi Connection, a few of them are truly great online multiplayer games. The friend code system is annoying, but you should be able to find plenty of random opponents in most WFC games.
Clearly, Nintendo has come a long way from having no online service whatsoever before November 2004. Nintendo DS isn't an online powerhouse, but you can do some fun things with it. On the other hand, Wii is unmistakably an online platform right out of the box. That status is mostly earned by the Virtual Console service. What Wii still can't do is let me play any games online with other people. You'd think a year of experience with the DS would give Nintendo some kind of head start on making online Wii games, but there's still nothing three months after launch. (My hat is tipped to Konami for the online feature in Elebits, but you're not actually playing the game online.)
What's much worse is that Nintendo hasn't firmly announced any upcoming online games, except for a vague promise that Super Smash Bros. Brawl will go online in some unknown way, either in late 2007 or even the next year if the game is delayed. Pokemon Battle Revolution features online matches and is already out in Japan, but it's going to be at least several months before the game is released elsewhere, due to the heavily delayed launch of the companion DS titles. Plus, Pokemon requires friend codes separate from the Wii system code, although this is supposedly due to the DS link-up. Aside from those two far-off games, we got vague promises of online gameplay when Battalion Wars II and Mario Strikers: Charged were shown last year, but there were no details at the time, and those games haven't been heard from in months. This reticence on Nintendo's part is not only thwarting Wii owners who want to play Nintendo's games online, but it's hurting third-party publishers and developers who are still not getting any support from Nintendo to implement online features.
The system/friend code requirement is a major restriction to certain types of games, particularly anything massively multiplayer online (MMO). Midway's Ed Boon said in a recent Game Informer interview that he wanted to put online gameplay in the Wii version of Mortal Kombat: Armageddon, but that Nintendo's development tools for the WiiConnect24 service are still not being made available to other studios.
GI: Are you supporting online at all?
Boon: I wish. Right now, there’s not an infrastructure that’s set up for us to go online with the lobbies and all that. I’m hoping future Wii games will have that stuff set up and we’ll be ready to do that.
I hope so too, Ed, but the question is WHEN? When will Nintendo get its act together on this issue? When will we be able to play Wii games against our friends and family far away? When will we finally learn just what the heck WiiConnect24 is supposed to do with that always-on connection? When will online DS games get out of the Stone Age and start offering the communication and matchmaking features that we already know are possible on the system?
Answers to at least some of these questions (okay…maybe one or two at most) may be nigh. With Shigeru Miyamoto addressing thousands of game developers at GDC next month, Nintendo has a golden opportunity to finally show that they are serious about these online services and want to make them about more than just random, desperate DS matchmaking and downloading old games onto the Wii. Miyamoto has the perfect forum to showcase amazing new games which take advantage of online functionality in ways that we have never seen before. It all makes such perfect sense that, typically, Nintendo will probably squander the chance and continue to be doggedly mysterious about the online potential for Wii and DS. But they'd better not wait too long, because without full support from third-party developers as well as convincing support from internal teams, the online potential of these systems could remain just that: potential.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 09, 2007, 04:44:59 PM
Anyways, while I agree that the services do need some fixing, I think its too early to predict doom and demand these features.
If its 2008 and Nintendo still hasn't delivered on their online promise, THEN we can freely bitch about it.
Post by: Blue Plant on February 09, 2007, 04:47:48 PM
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on February 09, 2007, 04:58:10 PM
I don't understand why we should give Nintendo a pass until 2008. I've been bitching about some of these problems for over five years now. Nintendo has had a lot of time to assess the situation and form their strategy. They already have an infrastructure for online gameplay on the DS, but that doesn't seem to have helped them get ready for Wii.
Blue Plant, I just learned about that feature a few days ago. I think it's great, despite arriving in North America 13 months after the last Nintendo game with voice chat. However, will the online functions actually be in the English version of Pokemon? I think probably so, but for whatever insane reason Nintendo still refuses to say anything about it, despite the game coming out in two months. By continuing to withhold all information about their online plans, Nintendo is leaving weathered fans like me to assume the worst, because historically, we've usually been let down with regards to anything online from this company.
Post by: that Baby guy on February 09, 2007, 05:00:51 PM
Basically, the way I see it, they expected people who were "hardcore" gamers that wanted to play online to end up buying a Wii and either a PS3 or a 360. Reggie knew they could do better, but wasn't really high enough in the ladder at the time to change this. Because they expected this, they thought there would be no rush or need for a serious online plan, after all, most would have an alternative either.
Flash forward six months, to Fall/Winter '06, and Nintendo starts to see changes in what the turn out will be. Now people are buying Wii first. The other two are the "second" console, according to recent trends. All of a sudden, internet gaming can't be played on what is perhaps the world's most popular system. What do you have to do? Come clean. Be honest, and let people know that it is on the way, but it won't be until later this year. That way, people will know when to expect it, they will see that it still exists, and that third parties are getting a chance. It's better than covering up that they are getting to it late, because people began to doubt that games were even going to have multiplayer online capabilities.
Now, if they were smart, they'd snap up development of an online mode of SSB:M, and release that in a about three months. Because the game is already made, it wouldn't be too difficult to build at least a 1v1 online mode, add a few trophies, and then offer it at a budget price of $40, w/o any real changes. Smash fans would be very happy, and it would curb their appetite for SSB:B. Not only that, but the infrastructure of the online system could be a true, strong prototype, and give building blocks for other online games.
Post by: oohhboy on February 09, 2007, 05:20:29 PM
Quote
Now, if they were smart, they'd snap up development of an online mode of SSB:M, and release that in a about three months. Because the game is already made, it wouldn't be too difficult to build at least a 1v1 online mode, add a few trophies, and then offer it at a budget price of $40, w/o any real changes. Smash fans would be very happy, and it would curb their appetite for SSB:B. Not only that, but the infrastructure of the online system could be a true, strong prototype, and give building blocks for other online games.
No, no and no. If they needed to make a proof of concept of their online system works, they need to release for free, a simple game over the Wii. Not burn one of the game of last generation like Sony did with GT:HD.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 09, 2007, 05:25:22 PM
Post by: Entroper on February 09, 2007, 07:49:51 PM
One of the important aspects of online gaming is that it's only a must-have, deal-breaker feature for hardcore gamers. Nintendo has made it very obvious that the Wii is NOT targeting hardcore gamers; they're trying to bring video games to a much wider audience than those who have enjoyed them in the past. Online is therefore not their top priority. We're only 3 months after launch, so all the "what's taking them so long" honestly sounds rather silly.
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on February 09, 2007, 08:35:59 PM
We do need to see real online gaming on Wii within 2007, or else we never really will.
Post by: sycomonkey on February 09, 2007, 08:41:48 PM
Now, the weather and news channels are indeed kinda poor, but it's pretty inconsequential sense that's not what the Wii is for anyway. The Wii is for playing games, and it does this absurdly well...
Post by: King of Twitch on February 09, 2007, 09:15:21 PM
Somewhere along the line they made an unprecedented discovery: a way to provide an unpopular service that was previously unprofitable, for free! They then decided not to share this amazing information with third parties so their product could have a leg up with competitors and make their stockholders happier in the long run.
Their new philosophy of targeting new gamers through simpler controls and positive media appearances caused them to abandon pursuing this fountain of youth until after launch.
Post by: Jig Insane on February 10, 2007, 12:52:30 AM
Online Dev Kits already distributed
The Dev kits to get the games online should already begin appearing in the hands of game makers, leaving it up to them to test it out and implement some type of true online mode in future games, granted it won't happen immediately, but looking toward the fall and winter line-up would be a good fit.
around that time some promising titles can implement the feature, and to good degrees. Not saying that Nintendo has been perfect about getting the tech out, but now its time for all to show up to the plate with some impressive software, and hopefully withoutt he villifying friend codes
Post by: vudu on February 10, 2007, 01:45:43 AM
Post by: Ceric on February 10, 2007, 02:58:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
Well, I think given the whole "We expect to be the second console for most people"-ish thing that everyone at Nintendo supported, except Reggie, it is understandable why there isn't strong, ready online capabilities for the Wii.
Basically, the way I see it, they expected people who were "hardcore" gamers that wanted to play online to end up buying a Wii and either a PS3 or a 360. Reggie knew they could do better, but wasn't really high enough in the ladder at the time to change this. Because they expected this, they thought there would be no rush or need for a serious online plan, after all, most would have an alternative either.
Flash forward six months, to Fall/Winter '06, and Nintendo starts to see changes in what the turn out will be. Now people are buying Wii first. The other two are the "second" console, according to recent trends. All of a sudden, internet gaming can't be played on what is perhaps the world's most popular system. What do you have to do? Come clean. Be honest, and let people know that it is on the way, but it won't be until later this year. That way, people will know when to expect it, they will see that it still exists, and that third parties are getting a chance. It's better than covering up that they are getting to it late, because people began to doubt that games were even going to have multiplayer online capabilities.
Now, if they were smart, they'd snap up development of an online mode of SSB:M, and release that in a about three months. Because the game is already made, it wouldn't be too difficult to build at least a 1v1 online mode, add a few trophies, and then offer it at a budget price of $40, w/o any real changes. Smash fans would be very happy, and it would curb their appetite for SSB:B. Not only that, but the infrastructure of the online system could be a true, strong prototype, and give building blocks for other online games.
I'm sorry but even at that time Reggie was in a position to make policy and have sway. In fact if that is the case now that Reggie is fully in power over NoA why haven't they been spearheading the issue? It might just be me but they seem to be the ones making the most mistakes.
As mentioned they knew how Live worked and was being really enjoyed by many people. Also the domain of casual players like Yahoo! Games and others that tend not to attract the hardcore but the casual gamers love it. (Backgammon, Card Games, Word Games, etc.) I am partial to Backgammon and some of the other games. A channel for these sort of little games would really appeal to the casual player but they need to be online.
The loading on the news since it's updated almost every hour or more I can understand but the Weather offering is pathetic. Great presentation but I would throw it all away if it had my town and was able to be updated when I wanted and the reading would be at that moment. As of now its still better to go onto the Opera browser and just go to weather.com or the national weather service. Who will give me vastly more accurate information. Whoever is responsible for that should be flogged. Weather is relatively pointless if it is not up-to-the-minute or even hour.
I'm sorry but Online is for Casuals as well. WoW is a good example. People who normally don't play games play it. They don't play it for the leveling and the instances. No. They play it for the social aspect.
Nintendo had a good start but they keep dropping the little balls. It will eventually add up. If the 360 was more reliable I think, actually I know, that its out-of-the-gate lead would be much vaster. Besides hardware problems the 360 has done most things well. Sort of mid row on everything but online which it truly excels at. The PS3 has been botching things left and right. So the Wii comes good price , innovative games that range from great to bad. A company known for good reliable hardware. At t hat point it seems like a now brainer. Unfortunately, online isn't nearly as developed. Not a deal breaker when you initially buy it. Though after you have it you keep thinking about it because everything is there and you spent the money to get it online, broadband connections and wireless routers aren't cheap, also you have the great news channel. So your thinking, not keeping up with the latest videogame news, that since it can easily do the news channels and VC games. I mean any time now they should have Hearts online or something. I mean it's on my Computer for Free.
I mean can't anyone see how you don't need much information to draw conclusions.
Yeah that took me around 4 cartoons. So it's a bit of a rant. In short with the time and examples Nintendo had before the Wii release. Why weren't they prepared.
Also I like the editorial because it will be read by many more people then the forums. Therefore bring more attention to the issue.
Post by: RickPowers on February 10, 2007, 03:34:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TheYoungerPlumber
...to be honest, I have to agree with Entroper here partially. Mass market presence was Nintendo's primary goal, and that's where they put their money. No online games right now is not a huge problem--it's that they don't have a clear online for third parties DOWN THE ROAD yet. What's taking them so long to coordinate with third parties? I thought this was the new, third party-friendly Nintendo spearheaded by Iwata!
We do need to see real online gaming on Wii within 2007, or else we never really will.
With all due respect, this is horsepocky.
This is exactly the same problem the GameCube had. You had developers willing to put online features in their games, supporting them on their own, and all they needed from Nintendo is specs on how to talk to the network adapter. Nintendo flatly REFUSED to give them they tools they needed. Bear in mind, this wasn't a matter of the tools not existing, because Nintendo has released games with LAN functionality, and had given the info to at least one other company (Sega, for Phantasy Star Online). Nintendo just didn't want to give the information to anyone else for reasons undisclosed.
Fast forward another five years and it's the exact same scenario, except that this time, it's not even an issue of support for a peripheral ... it's a standard feature of the goddamned system! And again, developers are willing to add the features if Nintendo will just tell them how to talk to the device, and they won't divulge the information, and again, won't say why.
TYP is right that it's not that big a deal that we don't have online titles right out of the gate (though it certainly didn't hurt Microsoft that Live support is practically mandatory). What is a big deal is that developing the titles takes time, and when you're already past launch and developers aren't being given the information on connecting to a standard piece of the hardware to make their games ...
Well, it's just Nintendo's own stubbornness shining through again. Especially when you consider that Nintendo designs their systems to encourage innovation, and at the same time, stifles it by not giving developers everything they need to fully tap their creativity.
Post by: Viewtiful mario on February 10, 2007, 04:33:51 AM
Quote
Did anyone peep this article on this very site
Online Dev Kits already distributed
I don't think so Jig Insane, it seems like almost all the lttle "editorials" that are appearing on this trend seem to be ignoring that yes devs now are able to put there games online and are no longer restricted to do so.
What puzzles me is that first people complain about the DS's online service being bad, then they say Nintnedo should've had online ready sooner because they have the DS's already set up. Did you ever stop to think that maby it's taking a while to get online games for the wii ready because they want to make the sarvice better then the DS's? I don't know how popular online play is in Japan (xbox excells at it but it sells like crap there) but maby nintendo releases Pokemon BR in Japan with all the options on an online DS game already because Japanese gamers arn't as bitchy as us, but when it comes to America, Reggie plans on giving things a facelift because he knows American gamers care a lot more about online play. Maby he's using this extra time to better the service.
This is of corse speculation but it's the idea I'm going with.
Post by: willie1234 on February 10, 2007, 04:41:31 AM
Post by: willie1234 on February 10, 2007, 04:43:37 AM
This would be a good argument if the year was 2000 and online gaming was still somewhat new to consoles. We're in 2007 now. That's like saying we need to wait for rumble so that Nintendo can do it right. Sorry, no, Nintendo needs to get their sh*t together and get this out the door. It's a solved problem.
Post by: Ceric on February 10, 2007, 04:50:43 AM
Post by: Entroper on February 10, 2007, 05:34:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowers
With all due respect, this is horsepocky.
This is exactly the same problem the GameCube had. You had developers willing to put online features in their games, supporting them on their own, and all they needed from Nintendo is specs on how to talk to the network adapter. Nintendo flatly REFUSED to give them they tools they needed. Bear in mind, this wasn't a matter of the tools not existing, because Nintendo has released games with LAN functionality, and had given the info to at least one other company (Sega, for Phantasy Star Online). Nintendo just didn't want to give the information to anyone else for reasons undisclosed.
Fast forward another five years and it's the exact same scenario, except that this time, it's not even an issue of support for a peripheral ... it's a standard feature of the goddamned system! And again, developers are willing to add the features if Nintendo will just tell them how to talk to the device, and they won't divulge the information, and again, won't say why.
TYP is right that it's not that big a deal that we don't have online titles right out of the gate (though it certainly didn't hurt Microsoft that Live support is practically mandatory). What is a big deal is that developing the titles takes time, and when you're already past launch and developers aren't being given the information on connecting to a standard piece of the hardware to make their games ...
Well, it's just Nintendo's own stubbornness shining through again. Especially when you consider that Nintendo designs their systems to encourage innovation, and at the same time, stifles it by not giving developers everything they need to fully tap their creativity.
I'm sorry, but wasn't there an article on THIS SITE, YESTERDAY, saying that devs had online kits? Oh look, it's right here!
You know, when a reader takes the time to organize their thoughts and post some feedback, it's probably best not to say that it's "horsepocky." With all due respect? Gee, thanks.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 10, 2007, 05:37:55 AM
Yeah, the Wiimote is innovative, but what about its applicable usage in online gaming? I would think that there could be some pretty damn impressive online experiences that use the Wiimote, and I don't just mean FPSs.
Furthermore, why the delay? What the HELL is Nintendo afraid of? That 3rd parties are going to make online games for the Wii that are so good that no one will buy Nintendo's? Seriously, generating a strong online repertoire can only do good things for the console and it's not like it's impossible to do or involves rocket science to accomplish so why not do it?
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 10, 2007, 05:43:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Nintendo can't go barking about innovation and then deny devs the necessary tools to access a very large part of that innovative edge.
Yeah, the Wiimote is innovative, but what about its applicable usage in online gaming? I would think that there could be some pretty damn impressive online experiences that use the Wiimote, and I don't just mean FPSs.
Furthermore, why the delay? What the HELL is Nintendo afraid of? That 3rd parties are going to make online games for the Wii that are so good that no one will buy Nintendo's? Seriously, generating a strong online repertoire can only do good things for the console and it's not like it's impossible to do or involves rocket science to accomplish so why not do it?
Well, Nintendo has started to ship online kits to developers now, so this is why I think that we will likely get online titles the end of summer/early fall/Winter 2007. This is also why I say that we should wait till 2008 in order to truly bitch since we are just starting. I guess it doesn't hurt to bitch about it now before it gets worse, but its too early to predict doom. I mean, if it took MS many years to perfect their XBOX Live service, and they are a company that has all the tools to bring online gaming to life, what makes you think that Nintendo, who has shunned online gaming for YEARS, will not get the same problem?
Post by: Bloodworth on February 10, 2007, 06:00:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Furthermore, why the delay? What the HELL is Nintendo afraid of? That 3rd parties are going to make online games for the Wii that are so good that no one will buy Nintendo's?
Actually, that does seem to be the problem and the reason GameCube online never materialized. Nintendo wants online gaming to be some kind of overarching strategy for the system and they want to spearhead that. Reggie flat-out said that Pokemon would be the first online game, but Pokemon isn't coming out for a while because they are still translating the DS games.
So, in the meantime, Nintendo has been holding back the online tools because they want to launch the online service with one of their own games, rather than let something like Mortal Kombat spoil their big plans. I don't know whether it really gives them any advantage, but it doesn't do their customers any good when a game like Call of Duty 3 has a huge online multiplayer mode just yanked right out of the Wii version.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 10, 2007, 06:02:56 AM
Retro was keeping the multiplayer aspect hush-hush and I'm assuming that means they have something worth keeping secret.
The only thing which would really justify that would be online multiplayer and, as we all know, Nintendo's American devs seem to have a better concept of online than their Japanese devs (NST with MP:H).
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 10, 2007, 06:18:48 AM
Post by: Pale on February 10, 2007, 06:53:51 AM
Anyway, I think there is a good shot we will see Pokemon in May, as the DS games are coming out in April. That could set up for a BWii / Charged fall in which to officially launch the online service, if you know what I mean.
Post by: Shecky on February 10, 2007, 07:06:28 AM
1) Do your Wii hardware development kits physically have wireless connectivity?
a) Why yes, we do
b) Why no, we don't our dev kit is
b.1) Still a modified GCN
b.2) A early Wii kit with no wireless
2) Does the software development kit (SDK) contain network socket libraries?
a) Huh?
b) Yes they do.
c) No they do not.
d) We wrote our own.
3) Does the SDK have libraries that work with "WiiConnect24" (Nintendo's centralized account and community)
a) Yes
b) No
c) We wrote our own.
Post by: Ceric on February 10, 2007, 07:53:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
The fact that Retro/Nintendo have not talked about multiplayer in Metroid doesn't mean it's a big secret. It could just mean they realized (after two relative failures) that multiplayer in Metroid doesn't fit with the series. meh.
Anyway, I think there is a good shot we will see Pokemon in May, as the DS games are coming out in April. That could set up for a BWii / Charged fall in which to officially launch the online service, if you know what I mean.
That would be ideal and acceptable. I really think that the DS Pokemon and the Wii one should release as a package here.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 10, 2007, 08:05:47 AM
Post by: TrueNerd on February 10, 2007, 08:45:33 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 10, 2007, 08:53:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
The fact that Retro/Nintendo have not talked about multiplayer in Metroid doesn't mean it's a big secret. It could just mean they realized (after two relative failures) that multiplayer in Metroid doesn't fit with the series. meh..
It's not that they haven't talked about it, it's that they've actually said they're keeping it under wraps.
Initially, they wanted no multplayer...
Quote
May 2006
IGN Wii: Will Metroid Prime 3 feature an online mode?
Kensuke Tanabe: No, we have only single-player. I have also produced Prime Hunters and for that game I tried to use the Wi-Fi Connection for multiplayer. For Prime 3, I would like to concentrate more on the single-player so I decided not to implement multiplayer for Prime 3. As you know, Wii will have Connect 24, so we are thinking more about the possibility of using that functionality so that the player can get something.
But that has since changed...
From Wiki...
Quote
It has been stated in a Nintendo Power interview with Retro Studios that Metroid Prime 3: Corruption may in fact have multiplayer, but "not in the same context as Echoes." The game's delay seems to support this information and has opened up the frequently mentioned possibility for online play. It should also be noted that this could also result in multiple new modes of multiplayer along with a new scoring system.
It makes the most sense for the long delay that we've seen in the release of the game. Had it really been ready to go at launch but was delayed to space out releases, we'd have it earlier than post-March.
It doesn't guarantee online, but they went from not wanting to have multiplayer to wanting it in some form.
Co-op? That would kick substantial ass...
Post by: trip1eX on February 10, 2007, 09:25:54 AM
I guess I have a pc though and don't really expect much from Nintendo.
Also I guess I picture all the quitters, bad online implementations, typical online lag and the cheaters and .... well it be mostly regulated to playing with a friend or two and not very often at that. We'll see.
Post by: Ceric on February 10, 2007, 11:37:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Pale
The fact that Retro/Nintendo have not talked about multiplayer in Metroid doesn't mean it's a big secret. It could just mean they realized (after two relative failures) that multiplayer in Metroid doesn't fit with the series. meh..
It's not that they haven't talked about it, it's that they've actually said they're keeping it under wraps.
Initially, they wanted no multplayer...Quote
May 2006
IGN Wii: Will Metroid Prime 3 feature an online mode?
Kensuke Tanabe: No, we have only single-player. I have also produced Prime Hunters and for that game I tried to use the Wi-Fi Connection for multiplayer. For Prime 3, I would like to concentrate more on the single-player so I decided not to implement multiplayer for Prime 3. As you know, Wii will have Connect 24, so we are thinking more about the possibility of using that functionality so that the player can get something.
But that has since changed...
From Wiki...Quote
It has been stated in a Nintendo Power interview with Retro Studios that Metroid Prime 3: Corruption may in fact have multiplayer, but "not in the same context as Echoes." The game's delay seems to support this information and has opened up the frequently mentioned possibility for online play. It should also be noted that this could also result in multiple new modes of multiplayer along with a new scoring system.
It makes the most sense for the long delay that we've seen in the release of the game. Had it really been ready to go at launch but was delayed to space out releases, we'd have it earlier than post-March.
It doesn't guarantee online, but they went from not wanting to have multiplayer to wanting it in some form.
Co-op? That would kick substantial ass...
You know I thought about it more. Though I would like the Samus aspect of the game to be single player only. Though you know what would really kick it would be if Co-op would be a new Bounty Hunter Duo. You would go through the game differently as them. Just to make sure everyone can play through that part of the story as well; you could unlock them for single player once you beat the game with Samus. You could choice which of the Duo you want to play as and switch between them as needed. The computer would control the other. To make it even more interesting from your run through as Samus there would be some data saved and if you happen on one of the overlapping areas that you did with Samus then there would be some change in the area.
What would make that even more interesting would be if you actually have someone to do Co-op with then Vice-versa would happen. Another perspective would be nice and fresh in the series.
Post by: Pittbboi on February 10, 2007, 12:35:01 PM
Just because Nintendo just now shipped dev kits doesn't mean we're going to be seeing online games in the Summer, because most games slated to be released by that time are most likely so far along in development that it's just too late to incorporate online for the Wii. It's going to be a while into 2008 before we start to see results, and by then it might just be too late: The Wii by that point may be known as 'The Console That Online Forgot' and no developer will really want to incorporate online.
Hopefully, it's not THAT late. But Nintendo definitely needs to get off it's butt and help third parties out in a timely fashion. It really seems like Nintendo thinks too much as a competitive game developer too much, and not enough as the console makers they really need to be.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 10, 2007, 12:42:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
To everyone saying "Wait until 2008" and "Nintendo's shipped online dev kits so shut up". Ever hear of the concept of a deadline? I know it's something Nintendo doesn't really like to commit itself to, but within the actual realm of game development, these are very important.
Just because Nintendo just now shipped dev kits doesn't mean we're going to be seeing online games in the Summer, because most games slated to be released by that time are most likely so far along in development that it's just too late to incorporate online for the Wii. It's going to be a while into 2008 before we start to see results, and by then it might just be too late: The Wii by that point may be known as 'The Console That Online Forgot' and no developer will really want to incorporate online.
Hopefully, it's not THAT late. But Nintendo definitely needs to get off it's butt and help third parties out in a timely fashion. It really seems like Nintendo thinks too much as a competitive game developer too much, and not enough as the console makers they really need to be.
Boy, you simply LOVE being Ian Jr. don't you? :p
I mention the summer comment because that's when it will likely happen. I see them making a big deal out of online gaming before the end of summer/fall. I see the Wii's second fall schedule being focused on the killer apps (Mario, Brawl etc.) and online gaming.
As for the 2008 comment, I mention it because Nintendo has all of 2007 to plan, develop and release online games. If by 2008 there are still no online plans then something is up. I mention it because right now its too early to demand online games since Nintendo, as well as the third parties, focused on pushing consoles and games into homes.
Did the PS3 even have some online games at launch? I know the 360 had some online games, but that was using the already established XBOX Live service (which that in itself took a year to take off).
And to clear everything, I ain't being overly optimistic or forgiving on Nintendo. I am simply stating that right now its too early to say that the Wii is doomed in terms of online gaming since it was just released and that the online fest should come no later than summer or fall. Again, if by then no advancement has been made then its something to bitch about in great numbers.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 10, 2007, 12:59:54 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on February 10, 2007, 01:03:52 PM
Quote
If Nintendo WFC has been up and running for a year and a half, why aren't first-party Wii games like Excite Truck and Mario Party 8 online?
Mario Party, no. There are some games that shouldn't have the entire purprose ripped out of them, and one of them is Mario Party. It's as stupid and depressing as an online Uno or Monopoly.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 10, 2007, 01:13:12 PM
Post by: 18 Days on February 10, 2007, 01:47:18 PM
Let's not forget that the average Mario Party game takes well over an hour to play.
Post by: Pittbboi on February 10, 2007, 02:00:59 PM
Nintendo has had their own online dev kits since the beginning, they better have online (though I really don't have much faith in Brawl providing the type of online play everyone thinks it will). It's with third parties that this could be an issue. Third parties JUST got dev kits, so you can expect the first push to be from Nintendo, but don't expect much in the way of online significance from third parties this year.
You can defend Nintendo all you want, but nothing will change the fact that third parties should have had these dev kits a long time ago, and this WILL affect how third parties approach Nintendo's online service. It may not be too late, but that's all we can hope at this point.
Post by: Shecky on February 10, 2007, 02:04:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Did the PS3 even have some online games at launch? I know the 360 had some online games, but that was using the already established XBOX Live service (which that in itself took a year to take off).
Just to answer the question... The PS3 had it's keystone title "Resistance: Fall of Man" which supported Co-op and also had a 40 Player mode over the network.
If someone will be at GDC and runs into any Wii developers, I recommend asking those questions earlier. A lot of the early dev kits were GCN's with adapters to allow for wii remotes as input devices. With that in mind, they likely did not have any WiFi hardware. Companies like EA may have gotten the full kits before games like CoD3 came out, but it may not have been in time for proper testing.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 10, 2007, 02:22:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
You're still only focusing on first party games.
Nintendo has had their own online dev kits since the beginning, they better have online (though I really don't have much faith in Brawl providing the type of online play everyone thinks it will). It's with third parties that this could be an issue. Third parties JUST got dev kits, so you can expect the first push to be from Nintendo, but don't expect much in the way of online significance from third parties this year.
You can defend Nintendo all you want, but nothing will change the fact that third parties should have had these dev kits a long time ago, and this WILL affect how third parties approach Nintendo's online service. It may not be too late, but that's all we can hope at this point.
I was talking about online games in GENERAL, not just the first party titles. If its true that Nintendo is working closely with third parties then you can bet they too will heavily advertise the third party online games.
I still see all online games from all developers being released after summer/during fall.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 10, 2007, 04:18:27 PM
But at least the PS3 also seems to have sh*t for online play as well...
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on February 10, 2007, 04:38:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Entroper
I'm sorry, but wasn't there an article on THIS SITE, YESTERDAY, saying that devs had online kits? Oh look, it's right here!
You know, when a reader takes the time to organize their thoughts and post some feedback, it's probably best not to say that it's "horsepocky." With all due respect? Gee, thanks.
Rick was quoting and replying to TYP, not you. They know each other very well and are used to this kind of back-and-forth.
As for the article about online dev kits, I honestly had not read that until you guys linked to it today. The editorial was written a few days before that news ran, and I didn't see the news before I posted the editorial. However, if I had seen the news, it wouldn't have stopped me from posting the editorial, although I might have thrown in a link to the news and a comment about it.
That third-parties are starting to get online dev kits is certainly good news. There is still the question of why it took this long, but that's water under the bridge. I think this development means little for the immediate to mid future of the Wii lineup. Not only is it difficult to implement an online mode late in a game's development cycle, but it's going to take developers a little while just to learn how to use the dev tools.
Post by: IceCold on February 10, 2007, 06:52:22 PM
QuoteI'd be very interested to hear what they say to those, but I wonder if they would answer them..
Originally posted by: Shecky
Next time someone interviews a developer (maybe GDC) why not ask them the right questions:
1) Do your Wii hardware development kits physically have wireless connectivity?
a) Why yes, we do
b) Why no, we don't our dev kit is
b.1) Still a modified GCN
b.2) A early Wii kit with no wireless
2) Does the software development kit (SDK) contain network socket libraries?
a) Huh?
b) Yes they do.
c) No they do not.
d) We wrote our own.
3) Does the SDK have libraries that work with "WiiConnect24" (Nintendo's centralized account and community)
a) Yes
b) No
c) We wrote our own.
Someone noticed!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 10, 2007, 07:57:01 PM
Post by: Shift Key on February 10, 2007, 08:34:27 PM
IWATA TIME?
Post by: Nephilim on February 10, 2007, 09:07:40 PM
Quote
Agreed...The entire point of Mario Party is getting to cuss out your friends when they steal a star from you or pointing and laughing when you do it back to them! Doing a drinking game online would also be really pointless...
welcome to mid 2006, live with webcam and voice chat
Nintendo could easly pull of the same thing
fact is the webcam for live is pretty good, better quality then a expensive logitech one
Post by: Entroper on February 11, 2007, 02:15:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
Rick was quoting and replying to TYP, not you. They know each other very well and are used to this kind of back-and-forth.
Yeah, it's cool. It was a little confusing, but I think I see what he meant now.
Still, I'm a little surprised with all the negativity here lately. The Wii has had the most units sold at launch of any console, ever. People are still lining up when stores open to try and get their hands on one. Lately, I can't even keep up with all the new title announcements, and interviews with companies like Activision planning to shift their focus more towards the Wii.
I realize that online support is an important factor in getting third party devs, which could have helped the N64 and Gamecube do better than they did. It just seems strange to read gloomy posts about third-party support in the wake of Activision's announcement, and the recent article about devs getting online kits.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 11, 2007, 02:41:47 AM
Mario Kart, despite its failings, was still a lot of fun online. Same with Animal Crossing. Now, if we could get an online Battalion Wars, Fire Emblem, Wario Ware, SSBB, Mario Strikers, Pikmin vs. mode, etc., I think it's safe to say these games would be absolutely awesome.
The real reason to have an online mode in these games is to allow players to ALWAYS have some competent human opponents, even when their friends aren't around or they kick the piss out of their friends at that particular game. Online modes increase the replay value drastically, THAT'S the real reason to include an online mode: it's the biggest favor you can do your customers and if it uses friend codes, it doesn't cost much in the way of online services to do.
How many Wii games are sitting on your shelf right now which you'd be playing on a regular basis if you could ALWAYS have a skilled opponent to compete against?
How many GAMECUBE games are sitting on your shelf under the same pretense?
Post by: Viewtiful mario on February 11, 2007, 03:42:08 AM
Quote
This would be a good argument if the year was 2000 and online gaming was still somewhat new to consoles. We're in 2007 now. That's like saying we need to wait for rumble so that Nintendo can do it right. Sorry, no, Nintendo needs to get their sh*t together and get this out the door. It's a solved problem.
So you say making an online service is just as simple as making a controller shake? What puzzle me is that if it's a "Solved problem" then why do people complain about nintnedo wi-fi?
Whatever, I still think that they've delayed it because they want to make it better then the ds's service. Make it more then just choosing "random person" or "person from firend code"
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 11, 2007, 03:57:36 AM
Furthermore, with Wii updates, they could release an early but functional beta version of the service and still throw devs a bone for online then release a more finalized version later on.
Post by: trip1eX on February 11, 2007, 04:02:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I've said it before: the reason I want to see Nintendo consoles online is because the prospect of Nintendo games with online features excites me far beyond your standard FPS/racing/sports fare.
Mario Kart, despite its failings, was still a lot of fun online. Same with Animal Crossing. Now, if we could get an online Battalion Wars, Fire Emblem, Wario Ware, SSBB, Mario Strikers, Pikmin vs. mode, etc., I think it's safe to say these games would be absolutely awesome.
The real reason to have an online mode in these games is to allow players to ALWAYS have some competent human opponents, even when their friends aren't around or they kick the piss out of their friends at that particular game. Online modes increase the replay value drastically, THAT'S the real reason to include an online mode: it's the biggest favor you can do your customers and if it uses friend codes, it doesn't cost much in the way of online services to do.
How many Wii games are sitting on your shelf right now which you'd be playing on a regular basis if you could ALWAYS have a skilled opponent to compete against?
How many GAMECUBE games are sitting on your shelf under the same pretense?
Yeah, but be careful what you wish for.
Post by: willie1234 on February 11, 2007, 05:35:29 AM
So you say making an online service is just as simple as making a controller shake? What puzzle me is that if it's a "Solved problem" then why do people complain about nintnedo wi-fi?
I meant others have solved it many times. XBox Live/Halo. Quake, Counter Strike, World of Warcraft, etc. etc. ad nauseum. That's why I made the rumble reference, this isn't pioneering technology like motion control, it's something well known at this point. If Nintendo doesn't have the in house expertise then they either need to hire people or partner with a third party that does. There is no technical reason for the delay.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 11, 2007, 06:03:09 AM
I mean, it took them a while to ship development kits (and before that, developers were using souped up Gamecubes). So It isn't surprising that they are taking the same stance with the online kits.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 11, 2007, 06:04:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: trip1eX Yeah, but be careful what you wish for.
How's that?
I don't see how an online mode could hamper the existing gameplay experience of the main game. It didn't in MK: DS, why would it on the Wii?
Post by: Magik on February 11, 2007, 06:11:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Thinking about it, is it really surprising that Nintendo just started shipping the online kits to developers?
I mean, it took them a while to ship development kits (and before that, developers were using souped up Gamecubes). So It isn't surprising that they are taking the same stance with the online kits.
It is surprising considering they had since the GameCube days to develop their network.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 11, 2007, 06:18:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MagikQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Thinking about it, is it really surprising that Nintendo just started shipping the online kits to developers?
I mean, it took them a while to ship development kits (and before that, developers were using souped up Gamecubes). So It isn't surprising that they are taking the same stance with the online kits.
It is surprising considering they had since the GameCube days to develop their network.
When will people understand that Nintendo never cared for online gaming during the GC days?
Yeah, you could say "But they had the modem and some online games released!", but those were piss poor attempts, and that was generated due to indifference towards the concept on Nintendo's behalf.
Their interest with online gaming started with the DS in 2005, but NEVER during the GC days.
Post by: Kairon on February 11, 2007, 06:23:51 AM
But that criticism pales in comparison to the praise they deserve for all the other things they did instead.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: otimus on February 11, 2007, 06:31:03 AM
No friend codes nonsense.
No bare bones bullcrap.
Just a very integrated service, with actual communication options.
Sadly, I expect long delays for Wii online games, and I expect them to lack communication options, and I also expect them to use friend codes, and not the Wii code. Just you watch.
Post by: NeoThunder on February 11, 2007, 08:31:56 AM
Voice over IP on Wii needs to happen when we get online play too. For a lot of games, communication with teammates is vital.
Friend codes are fine cause they allow people to use the same name. As long as exchanging them with new people is allowed and easy, friend codes shouldn't be too much of a hassle
The only bad move Nintendo has done, and had time to do, is they could have made Nintendo Wi-Fi "on chip" like xbox live on 360. Therefor all games could basically be online even if it wasn't an online game. While playing any game, you could check if your friends are online or what they are playing. Unknown if a Wii system update cold correct this.
Ohh ya, and when it does go online, it needs to be called Nintendo Wi-Fi service, not WiiConnect24
Post by: Kairon on February 11, 2007, 08:40:06 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Viewtiful mario on February 11, 2007, 08:58:34 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on February 11, 2007, 09:02:32 AM
Post by: trip1eX on February 11, 2007, 09:24:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: trip1eX Yeah, but be careful what you wish for.
How's that?
I don't see how an online mode could hamper the existing gameplay experience of the main game. It didn't in MK: DS, why would it on the Wii?
It's just that everyone is bitching about no online for the Wii yet and in doing so many seem to be putting online play on a pedestal. LIke it would be so much better if we just had online play. And like online play is this holy grail.
Eh I think many are just setting themselves up for more disappointment.
When online comes, folks will bitch what Nintendo didn't do, then folks will bitch about all the crappy online implentations on a per game basis, then bitch about patches/fixes that are needed and next you'll get tired of playing cheating, exploiting, smack-talking strangers.
Last your left playing with a couple friends. You'll find out soon you can't agree on the same game to get and when you do you won't be able to get together at the same time. And if you ever do get together you'll have to type in all these odd codes and then you'll find out that lag kills the game anyway.
All I'm saying is that online play is a mixed bag. Everyone raves about Xbox Live, but have you played strangers on that service? I quickly learned that what sounds so great on paper (standardized voip) is in practice something I could completely do without. I was totally turned off from Xbox Live after a month or two of playing a bunch of punks.
To be fair, you can keep a lengthy acquaintence list though and you can overcome that. Still that's a pain and really I don't want to chat with folks in games much. Plus too many talk too much and you can't hear the sound effects or anything else. IT's over-rated. Hell I game to get away from people. :P
Don't get me wrong I play online. I love playing Battlefield 2 online on the pc.
But most games I don't get into enough to continue the experience online.
Post by: Ceric on February 11, 2007, 09:55:36 AM
Post by: Magik on February 11, 2007, 09:55:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64Quote
Originally posted by: MagikQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Thinking about it, is it really surprising that Nintendo just started shipping the online kits to developers?
I mean, it took them a while to ship development kits (and before that, developers were using souped up Gamecubes). So It isn't surprising that they are taking the same stance with the online kits.
It is surprising considering they had since the GameCube days to develop their network.
When will people understand that Nintendo never cared for online gaming during the GC days?
Yeah, you could say "But they had the modem and some online games released!", but those were piss poor attempts, and that was generated due to indifference towards the concept on Nintendo's behalf.
Their interest with online gaming started with the DS in 2005, but NEVER during the GC days.
Than its just another example of Nintendo getting caught with their pants down.
The last five years or so were a perfect opportunity for them to plan and develop their network and have it ready to go. Instead, we're now waiting till at least summer, at best, for some sort of online gaming.
Post by: Nephilim on February 11, 2007, 01:58:09 PM
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=2057
:P
"I can’t really argue with their plan, at least they have one."
true in 2002 and 2007 :/
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on February 11, 2007, 04:49:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Nintendo rightly deserves the criticism for not being quite on the ball with their online gameplay offerings.
But that criticism pales in comparison to the praise they deserve for all the other things they did instead.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Correct. And I don't want anyone to think I'm a Moaning Myrtle when it comes to Nintendo. Read my reviews of Wii games, or listen to my comments on the podcasts (when I make it to a recording, that is). The editorial format is better suited for criticisms and layout out an argument, but I think everyone on the staff is really happy with Wii and extremely excited about what is to come.
Post by: NeoThunder on February 11, 2007, 05:00:47 PM
Cause as it stands all of the friends on my friends list on xbox live are all people I don't know that i've excepted friend request from. And when it comes to playing games online I never hook up with them and play games with them.
What is a big deal is with a game like Animal Crossing on DS. It has Nintendo Wi-Fi functionality but you can only visit towns of people you know the friend code of, if you don't know anybody's friend code. Then it's as if that game has no online gameplay.
So what matters most to me in online play is matchmaking and the ability to play with people I don't know.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 11, 2007, 06:45:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: NeoThunder
For me the whole "friend code" thing isn't too much of a big deal to me.
Cause as it stands all of the friends on my friends list on xbox live are all people I don't know that i've excepted friend request from. And when it comes to playing games online I never hook up with them and play games with them.
What is a big deal is with a game like Animal Crossing on DS. It has Nintendo Wi-Fi functionality but you can only visit towns of people you know the friend code of, if you don't know anybody's friend code. Then it's as if that game has no online gameplay.
So what matters most to me in online play is matchmaking and the ability to play with people I don't know.
I definately agree there, Animal Crossing had alot of wasted potential because it only allowed you to go to your friend's house. My guess is that a potential reason behind this was because people may put personal information (Maybe even their friend code! ::GASP:
on the bulletin boards or find some way to communicate the information.
Post by: Arbok on February 11, 2007, 06:52:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I definately agree there, Animal Crossing had alot of wasted potential because it only allowed you to go to your friend's house. My guess is that a potential reason behind this was because people may put personal information (Maybe even their friend code! ::GASP:
Animal Crossing is a different beast. Personally, I don't want random people wandering into my town and chopping down all of my trees. Given what you can do in the game, I think it's a no brainer why it was set up for friend code play only and I doubt it has to do with personal information leaking.
Post by: InfinitysEnd on February 12, 2007, 02:15:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Animal Crossing is a different beast. Personally, I don't want random people wandering into my town and chopping down all of my trees. Given what you can do in the game, I think it's a no brainer why it was set up for friend code play only and I doubt it has to do with personal information leaking.
Perhaps they could make it so there was a rule of "no axes" when you travel? Or if they had Booker & Copper at the gates like they do in Wild World, they would say, "Would you like to leave your axe with us?" Tree issue solved.
However... there could be the issue of people leaving trash all over your town...
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on February 12, 2007, 02:31:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117- Why do all the online channels on Wii only connect about 50% of the time through my official USB adaptor and always-on cable Internet connection?
- If my Wii is online 24/7, why do I have to wait sixty seconds for the news or weather to download when I go to those channels?
Is your computer going into standby? I don't have these problems, and I'm using the USB adapter, too.
Post by: Nick DiMola on February 12, 2007, 03:07:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I definately agree there, Animal Crossing had alot of wasted potential because it only allowed you to go to your friend's house. My guess is that a potential reason behind this was because people may put personal information (Maybe even their friend code! ::GASP:
Animal Crossing is a different beast. Personally, I don't want random people wandering into my town and chopping down all of my trees. Given what you can do in the game, I think it's a no brainer why it was set up for friend code play only and I doubt it has to do with personal information leaking.
Animal Crossing needed common areas very badly. It would be amazing if a ton of people could visit a Nintendo made town and meet and trade person to person. I'm sure people would design their own new mini games and whole different chapter of that game would be created just by adding cmmon areas. There could've been bots that held fishing tournaments or special items in the common areas you couldn't get in the town. Animal Crossing DS was a huge letdown for me. I pretty much bought a game again, that I already had played to death. The online format opened up a whole new realm of possibilities and Nintendo just blew it off. Normally I couldn't care less about online play, but for Animal Crossing, I thought that was really a chance for the online system to shine.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on February 12, 2007, 05:05:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117- Why do all the online channels on Wii only connect about 50% of the time through my official USB adaptor and always-on cable Internet connection?
- If my Wii is online 24/7, why do I have to wait sixty seconds for the news or weather to download when I go to those channels?
Is your computer going into standby? I don't have these problems, and I'm using the USB adapter, too.
No, I checked on that. I use a screensaver, but not standby mode. And I'm pretty sure that my rumordongle is working normally, because I have no problem with taking my DS online with it. If only I had DS games worth playing online...
Post by: Ian Sane on February 12, 2007, 05:25:29 AM
Post by: Ceric on February 12, 2007, 05:51:18 AM
Post by: Blue Plant on February 12, 2007, 06:10:46 AM
Post by: that Baby guy on February 12, 2007, 08:11:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think Nintendo's problem here is that they're a generation behind. They need to get the kinks out and they lack experience. But the problem is in a competitive environment the world doesn't wait for you. Nintendo can't forever be five years behind on this. There has to be a point where make a big leap and catch up. After all why should anyone wait for them when the competition is already online?
Gaming wise, I'd say yes. However, their Wii shop, news and weather are pretty innovative for a company five years behind. They really just need to get some of these games out there, and let us see what they've got.
They also need to make a GBA and a DS Lite expansion pack that can contain a permanent Friend Code that has future compatibility with all Wi-Fi games. Even though it wouldn't work with released games, at least you wouldn't have to switch FC's with every single game you have. Honestly, it should be released w/ the DS browser.
Post by: Kairon on February 12, 2007, 11:10:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think Nintendo's problem here is that they're a generation behind. They need to get the kinks out and they lack experience. But the problem is in a competitive environment the world doesn't wait for you. Nintendo can't forever be five years behind on this. There has to be a point where make a big leap and catch up. After all why should anyone wait for them when the competition is already online?
I agree. Even fanbois must admit that the market doesn't care about excuses. Just look at the PS3's price and their attempts to sell that as a value proposition.
Of course, Nintendo's extremely innovative with how they're using online in a blue ocean manner. After all, they've been doing wacky experiments with online distribution and gaming since the BS Satellaview for the Super Famicom, and they've meant to provide non-gaming news channels and the like since the Famicom.
However, it shows that their real weaknesses lies in the hardware and networking side of online connectivity, a field that's absolutely exploded and mutated rapidly from the late 1990's until today. Nintendo just isn't ready for the technical and hardware and database and networking and security and software and all that stuff that companies like Microsoft or even Sony have been involved with for years on end.
One has to wonder: how can Nintendo make that "big leap" and catch up when they're so clearly out of their depth internally in this field? ... The only way I can think of is to copy Blizzard's B.Net as much as possible and use that as a starting point.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Shift Key on February 12, 2007, 12:46:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117- Why do all the online channels on Wii only connect about 50% of the time through my official USB adaptor and always-on cable Internet connection?
- If my Wii is online 24/7, why do I have to wait sixty seconds for the news or weather to download when I go to those channels?
Is your computer going into standby? I don't have these problems, and I'm using the USB adapter, too.
I connect to a wireless network at home and I see these problems too, so its a Wii issue and not the network itself that that is producing these issues.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 12, 2007, 12:50:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon However, it shows that their real weaknesses lies in the hardware and networking side of online connectivity, a field that's absolutely exploded and mutated rapidly from the late 1990's until today. Nintendo just isn't ready for the technical and hardware and database and networking and security and software and all that stuff that companies like Microsoft or even Sony have been involved with for years on end.
They just need to do what they did with all of the Wii Channels and outsource this responsibility to a company who knows what they're doing.
Why make their own browser when Opera can do it? Why track the weather when NASA can do it? They should just hand over responsibility to a 3rd party and let them create the infrastructure they need to do online gaming justice with their titles.
Quote
Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
Animal Crossing needed common areas very badly. It would be amazing if a ton of people could visit a Nintendo made town and meet and trade person to person. I'm sure people would design their own new mini games and whole different chapter of that game would be created just by adding cmmon areas. There could've been bots that held fishing tournaments or special items in the common areas you couldn't get in the town. Animal Crossing DS was a huge letdown for me. I pretty much bought a game again, that I already had played to death. The online format opened up a whole new realm of possibilities and Nintendo just blew it off. Normally I couldn't care less about online play, but for Animal Crossing, I thought that was really a chance for the online system to shine.
Indeed, that would have been awesome.
All you could really do in AC online was just kind of...be there. Not much to do other than just be in the same town and get in each other's way while trying to fish.
You couldn't even gang up and harass the villagers because they all went in their houses when another person entered your town.
Post by: Kairon on February 12, 2007, 06:22:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
They just need to do what they did with all of the Wii Channels and outsource this responsibility to a company who knows what they're doing.
Why make their own browser when Opera can do it? Why track the weather when NASA can do it? They should just hand over responsibility to a 3rd party and let them create the infrastructure they need to do online gaming justice with their titles.
Isn't Gamespy doing it?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Magik on February 13, 2007, 02:12:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think Nintendo's problem here is that they're a generation behind. They need to get the kinks out and they lack experience. But the problem is in a competitive environment the world doesn't wait for you. Nintendo can't forever be five years behind on this. There has to be a point where make a big leap and catch up. After all why should anyone wait for them when the competition is already online?
I agree. Even fanbois must admit that the market doesn't care about excuses. Just look at the PS3's price and their attempts to sell that as a value proposition.
Of course, Nintendo's extremely innovative with how they're using online in a blue ocean manner. After all, they've been doing wacky experiments with online distribution and gaming since the BS Satellaview for the Super Famicom, and they've meant to provide non-gaming news channels and the like since the Famicom.
However, it shows that their real weaknesses lies in the hardware and networking side of online connectivity, a field that's absolutely exploded and mutated rapidly from the late 1990's until today. Nintendo just isn't ready for the technical and hardware and database and networking and security and software and all that stuff that companies like Microsoft or even Sony have been involved with for years on end.
One has to wonder: how can Nintendo make that "big leap" and catch up when they're so clearly out of their depth internally in this field? ... The only way I can think of is to copy Blizzard's B.Net as much as possible and use that as a starting point.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
All Nintendo needs is a copy of B.Net.
Battle.net is exactly what Nintendo needs for their online service. It doesn't have the bells and whistles of Xbox Live, but it does include essentially the basics of a solid online network.
It would probably eliminate the need for Friend Codes as well.
Post by: Kairon on February 13, 2007, 05:06:14 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 13, 2007, 12:00:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Isn't Gamespy doing it?
You know, I HEARD that back during the GC days but absolutely nothing ever came to fruition from it, as far as I know.
Post by: IceCold on February 13, 2007, 12:36:19 PM
Post by: otimus on February 18, 2007, 07:10:04 AM
Actually, so you know....
The DS does have a permanent code. It's just that Nintendo are too backwards to use it.
This is why I also believe Nintendo isn't going to use the Wii code for it's online games either.
Post by: Shift Key on February 21, 2007, 10:33:57 PM
Quote
I remember IGN defending themselves and saying there wouldn't be a conflict of interest when it comes to reviews.
TOKEN 7.9 JOKE GOES HERE. I FIND THE LACK OF SKINS DISTURBING.
