Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: NWR_pap64 on February 06, 2007, 02:07:01 PM
Title: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 06, 2007, 02:07:01 PM
Ever since Manhunt 2 was announced in the afternoon, some opinions on the matter have annoyed me.
During the N64 and GC games, gamers were complaining that the systems weren't getting any games and developers were ignoring them. They were also complaining that Nintendo was being too strict about their third party games and needed to loosen up a bit and allow all kinds of games and not force such high quality rules. They also mentioned that they didn't need to force developers to use their proprietary formats and should go with the most common and easier to develop for.
The Wii is a whole different story. With ease of development, mass appeal and tons of potential, developers are now making a lot of games for it, but now the fans are complaining that the Wii will be home to un-inspired ports, rush jobs and third party games we don't care about...
So which is it? You want the Nintendo systems to have a vast library of games and want developers to experiment around with their games, yet demand that ALL of them meet Nintendo's standards and shouldn't suck?
I can honestly see why Nintendo has decided to focus on a broader audience of gamers rather than stick with the fans, since the fans themselves don't even know what they truly want.
I mean, they want the games, but at the same time they don't...MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS ALREADY!
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Maverick on February 06, 2007, 02:18:52 PM
We want the Wii to get the same kind of attention and support that the X-Box/PS2 did last gen. We just don't want to PLAY all those crappy games those systems got.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 06, 2007, 02:20:55 PM
Wow... Nintendo fans want games that they won't buy... *shakes head*
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Amodaus1 on February 06, 2007, 02:21:58 PM
my demands are simple. I want capcom and konami, and to a lesser extent namco, and i only want 2 things from square, chrono break and bushido blade 3, both of which will never happen.
Other developers i like are sony first party, so they are not coming nintendo's way no matter what.
Acctually to be honest, its not the developer, but the director/producers that i'm after. So i'm not really intrested in capcom as much as i'm intrested in where the creator of DMC left too after capcom fired him, same with the head of clover, ect ect
Either way, tons of support or not. As long as nintendo makes their own games, and doesn't hand them off to other developers i'm happy. I would have been INFINETLY happier knowing nintendo handled yoshi island DS and not artoon, nintendo just seems to have better personel and training for their directors/producers, and of course alot more expierence.
So in reference to your manhunt 2 example. If its on the wii fine, power too the wii. I wouldn't buy it ever, regardless of the system. I don't like the developer or the talent they have. There are a few studios i don't give a damn about becuase i've played their games and never liked them, Rockstar is one. So is it good Rockstar is making a wii game, sure, but do i personally care, no, and niether will most in this small community.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: NeoThunder on February 06, 2007, 02:23:30 PM
I think the crap part was something to worry about at launch. Now that Wii is becomeing so popular, sure their might be some crap games come out, but there will be a lot of great games that will be made just for Wii or with Wii in mind instead of being a quick port. With ease of devolpment, there is no reason developers can't make good games with good controls.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 06, 2007, 02:25:16 PM
Crappy is a state of mind. Far Cry was FUN.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: MarioAllStar on February 06, 2007, 02:26:27 PM
Quote The Wii is a whole different story. With ease of development, mass appeal and tons of potential, developers are now making a lot of games for it, but now the fans are complaining that the Wii will be home to un-inspired ports, rush jobs and third party games we don't care about...
And it will be. Maybe not much more than the GameCube was, but it definitely will have a lot of crappy games. Just like the DS has games where the developers put little thought into creativity, but instead shoehorned touch screen controls where they don't belong. We can expect some of the same on Wii.
However, and this is the good part, with the increased popularity we will be getting more games in general. We might have a smaller percentage of gems than we did in previous generations, but the overall number of qualities titles should be higher. In that aspect, the Wii will become the PS2 of this generation.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: NeoThunder on February 06, 2007, 02:27:37 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Kairon Crappy is a state of mind. Far Cry was FUN.
Wait a sec.....i'm sorry but Far Cry was absolute crap....you can't have fun with a game that has bad controls
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 06, 2007, 02:34:19 PM
Quote Originally posted by: NeoThunder
Quote Originally posted by: Kairon Crappy is a state of mind. Far Cry was FUN.
Wait a sec.....i'm sorry but Far Cry was absolute crap....you can't have fun with a game that has bad controls
Wow... Far Cry had the BEST controls off the bat from the first three Wii FPS games. I didn't expect to see you criticize the one thing that has been heralded as the game's only redeeming feature.
Quote However, there's one shining good point to be dropped into the whole affair, for which many ills are going to be forgiven over the course of this review. Far Cry: Vengeance, for all its many, many faults, is the first Wii game to get first-person shooter controls absolutely, totally right.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 06, 2007, 02:42:57 PM
Like I mentioned before, crap games will be inevitable. Its a trade off. You either get a lot of games with loss of quality or get only a handful of high quality games. But the reality is that people see quantity first, quality second.
The PSone and PS2 were home to some god awful games, yet people were amazed at the massive library of games, which also contained some amazing hidden gems.
What I mean is that during the N64 and GC eras fans were complaining that developers were ignoring these consoles and wanted these games appear on the Nintendo consoles. Now that its looking that there will be more games this time around, fans are bitching that the game will damage it and that they don't need it.
Like I said, you either get one or the other. You can't have both. You can't expect the Wii to survive with just a handful of games, despite high quality, but you can't expect every single game to be stellar and well polished.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Nick DiMola on February 06, 2007, 02:43:47 PM
I personally think it's great that the Wii is being opened up to very broad support. Rockstar making a Wii game? I would've never guessed it, but here it is, Manhunt 2. Who knows what's next? If the Wii becomes the defacto system, much like the PS2 was last generation, you won't hear a peep from my mouth. I can't imagine getting all my great Nintendo games, and all the exciting 3rd party games all in one spot. It just gives me more bang for my buck. I now know (hopefully) that I won't have to buy a PS3 to pick up a large cross section of amazing games that I missed. If they all come to the Wii, I don't have to worry about it.
If I see a single person complain that Nintendo is now getting the support everyone has been complaining about not getting for years, I may just have to slap them. The strong 3rd party support is a blessing and finally Nintendo is shining in the bright light it has been shunned from for years.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 06, 2007, 02:50:05 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Mr. Jack I personally think it's great that the Wii is being opened up to very broad support. Rockstar making a Wii game? I would've never guessed it, but here it is, Manhunt 2. Who knows what's next? If the Wii becomes the defacto system, much like the PS2 was last generation, you won't hear a peep from my mouth. I can't imagine getting all my great Nintendo games, and all the exciting 3rd party games all in one spot. It just gives me more bang for my buck. I now know (hopefully) that I won't have to buy a PS3 to pick up a large cross section of amazing games that I missed. If they all come to the Wii, I don't have to worry about it.
If I see a single person complain that Nintendo is now getting the support everyone has been complaining about not getting for years, I may just have to slap them. The strong 3rd party support is a blessing and finally Nintendo is shining in the bright light it has been shunned from for years.
Yeah, but will you buy those EA/Ubi titles landing in March? Will you buy ManHunt?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Smoke39 on February 06, 2007, 02:50:44 PM
Quote Originally posted by: pap64 What I mean is that during the N64 and GC eras fans were complaining that developers were ignoring these consoles and wanted these games appear on the Nintendo consoles. Now that its looking that there will be more games this time around, fans are bitching that the game will damage it and that they don't need it.
I think people are worried that, while the Wii might not be ignored like before, it may not be taken fully seriously. It's the least powerful console by a notable margin this generation, which devs might use as an excuse to be lazy, since expectations will be lower. Key word is might. I think many fans are just protective of Nintendo, and so they worry about these possibilities.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Amodaus1 on February 06, 2007, 03:03:57 PM
I'm not complaining about support. I'm not saying, "Hey look we're getting games, BOO, go away games." Whoever wants to make a game and sell it, congrats, i applaud you. But i'm not intrested in rock star.
I try and follow certain developers, because i like their games, and i know when they make another it'll probably be good. And i don't follow certain developers, becuase i play their games and i didn't like them, so when they make news ones, odds are, they won't be good to me.
Out of all my games most are from Nintendo, SCE, Capcom and konami. I have a few strays, like Quest - Ogre Battle, and Square with chrono trigger, the only 2 xbox games i have are halo 1 and 2.
If the wii gets a Metal gear solid or a resident evil 4 esq game, then i will rejoice. If the wii has some wierd developer making 2-D games, then i'll check it out (i perfer 2-D over 3D). But i just don't like Rock Star, or anything attached to take-two. Epic is another house i don't enjoy. I broke down and played Gears full well knowing i hate everything else they have ever made, and i really really hate unreal. Sure enough i thought gears sucked hard. So i stay away from now on, and i'll stay away from anything else cliffy B makes.
I know people like a massive library. I really don't. I like to play a really good game, and then i like to play it again, and again. I have beaten RE 4 almost 8 times. This summer i'm tempted to do a professonal no guns run or a professional no merchant run, but the very fact that i still want to play the game, despite the fact that i've beaten it so many times already is a testament that quality = quantity in hours spent playing. I don't enjoy the idea of quality second, quantity first. It sounds hollow, and more of a marketing ploy than enjoyment, and it is quite costly. Thus my beef with yoshi's isnland for the DS, i know if nintendo stalled 1 year, and released it themselves, it would have been worthy of its name.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Nick DiMola on February 06, 2007, 03:06:04 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Kairon
Yeah, but will you buy those EA/Ubi titles landing in March? Will you buy ManHunt?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
I'm not sure about Manhunt just yet. The first one was really boring. If this one can really impress me, there is a strong possibility I will buy it. Gestures for this game seem fitting (and kind of brutal, double awesome). EA regular sports games aren't my thing so I will be avoiding them. As for the rest, I will play it by ear. The new SSX looks good, and I am sure there are others coming that will interest me. Ubisoft games are hit or miss as well. Alot of their titles I'd rather play on my 360(as of now) but we'll see as this generation plays out.
I can guarantee you, if a game isn't good, I won't be buying it. I regret buying Red Steel, because I think it sends Ubisoft a message that people will tolerate their unfinished crap. I understand your point though, you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk. I can, and many others can too, but many may not, and don't necessarily need to. If Nintendo has cornered that Blue Ocean market as well as they say, those will be the people who will carry the torch. Remember we are the most critical consumers, most people buy things if it looks cool not if it is a quality game. As long as the general populous is on Nintendo's side you'll see every game under the sun get a release on the Wii.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Famicom on February 06, 2007, 03:19:18 PM
No complaints from me. While personally I'm 1000x more psyched for the next installment of Guily Gear to hit Wii (if indeed that rumor turns out true), I fully recognize the importance of a company like Rockstar supporting the Wii, and actually would be very tempted in buying a copy of Manhunt 2 provided it turns out OK.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 06, 2007, 03:35:00 PM
Well said, Pap, but it's also the "grass is greener" syndrome at work.
It's easier to believe that another system is getting better support than your system when you don't actually own it and can't determine for yourself. This, frankly, is the only explanation we have for why people are complaining at the lack of Wii software despite it only being three months into its life.
There is far more software in development for the Wii than what has been announced right now. Manhunt 2 was announced today and will be out this summer. Worst case scenario, that's 7 months after announcement.
Don't despair just because these games haven't been announced yet. We have no idea what else is currently waiting to be announced while still under wraps...
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Amodaus1 on February 06, 2007, 03:43:12 PM
Here's hoping for pikmin 3 to have a crazy battle mode. I enjoyed the 2 vs in pikmin 2, they could slap that on as well, but i want to drive armies of 1000s of pikmin into one another. It's also be intresting if they could let you control the predotor species in an online mode.
Either way, i'm sure nintendo will have some impressive surprises. Still nothing is going to top Galaxy when it hits. I also heard the team working on galaxy was the same that handled Jungle beat, which is only more good news for the wii. I hope they sequel jungle beat.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Adrock on February 06, 2007, 04:07:03 PM
In a perfect world, I'd want 3rd parties to release all the great games I want to play and none of the filler. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. To get the great titles you have to get the crap with it. I'm not buying ass titles so if I don't care if they're on Wii as long as I get an amazing game too. I could care less about Naruto if I got Soul Calibur 4. I could care less about Generic Chocobo Whore Fest if I got Chrono 3.
I would definitely take variety. There should be games for everyone even if the ratio was like 4:1 crappy to amazing games. I know most of the games will likely suck and I won't play them, but whatever, as long as 3rd parties still provide some great innovative and imaginative titles.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Crimm on February 06, 2007, 04:20:25 PM
I don't want lazy ports of PS2 games with tacked on waggle.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Pittbboi on February 06, 2007, 04:26:02 PM
This isn't fair.
Just because people want to see more games on the Wii doesn't mean we're going to automatically be satisfied by a flurry of rushed games and uninspired ports. We more games, yes; but we still want good games.
I always thought it was a amazing that whenever someone complained about the lack of 3rd party games on any Nintendo system, there's always a rush of people listing any old crap that was released just to toss us a bone. This was especially the case on the 'Cube. "What do you mean Nintendo has no third party support!? Barney's Purple Adventures was just released!!"
While I can admit that it's a very good sign that the Wii is getting more support than the Cube, we're still seeing half-a**ed support for the most part--just slightly more of it. Safe, uninspiring games that publishers don't really have to take a real risk to put on the Wii. We don't see major, mature, big budget, envelope pushing titles (that are good, sorry Red Steel) of the sort that the other next gen consoles are getting. Heck, it's a pipe dream at best that the Wii version of Manhunt 2 will be more than a (most likely badly) ported PS2 game with Wii controls tacked on (though, I'm one of the people hoping that it's more than that).
And it just makes it frustrating when we say we want these kinds of games and get "shut down" thoughtlessly. We ask for a good, epic third party game, and people expect us to be happy with a game like Dewy's Adventure. We ask for a game with a mature setting and storyline, and immediately get lambasted for "thinking that blood and sex makes a good game", when the whole time by "mature" we meant a game with a setting more sophisticated than what we can read on the back of a cereal box before we solve the puzzle and find out just what did happen to Toucan Sam.
Heck, I know a lot of people (including myself) would be happy with even just an announcement proving that big things were on the way to the Wii from some godsend third party.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 06, 2007, 05:06:14 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Pittbboi This isn't fair.
Just because people want to see more games on the Wii doesn't mean we're going to automatically be satisfied by a flurry of rushed games and uninspired ports. We more games, yes; but we still want good games.
I always thought it was a amazing that whenever someone complained about the lack of 3rd party games on any Nintendo system, there's always a rush of people listing any old crap that was released just to toss us a bone. This was especially the case on the 'Cube. "What do you mean Nintendo has no third party support!? Barney's Purple Adventures was just released!!"
While I can admit that it's a very good sign that the Wii is getting more support than the Cube, we're still seeing half-a**ed support for the most part--just slightly more of it. Safe, uninspiring games that publishers don't really have to take a real risk to put on the Wii. We don't see major, mature, big budget, envelope pushing titles (that are good, sorry Red Steel) of the sort that the other next gen consoles are getting. Heck, it's a pipe dream at best that the Wii version of Manhunt 2 will be more than a (most likely badly) ported PS2 game with Wii controls tacked on (though, I'm one of the people hoping that it's more than that).
And it just makes it frustrating when we say we want these kinds of games and get "shut down" thoughtlessly. We ask for a good, epic third party game, and people expect us to be happy with a game like Dewy's Adventure. We ask for a game with a mature setting and storyline, and immediately get lambasted for "thinking that blood and sex makes a good game", when the whole time by "mature" we meant a game with a setting more sophisticated than what we can read on the back of a cereal box before we solve the puzzle and find out just what did happen to Toucan Sam.
Heck, I know a lot of people (including myself) would be happy with even just an announcement proving that big things were on the way to the Wii from some godsend third party.
Once again, expect this to happen to a console which gets the most support.
There WILL be games that will be rushed with tacked on controls, and there will also be games that will be god awful. But there will also be games that range from rock solid to simply amazing and many will be truly ambitious and awe-inspiring.
You just have to wait till all of them are released. It's OK to not buy the games if you are not interested. No one if forcing you to buy the games, especially if you want something more. But its also unfair to dismiss that support, ESPECIALLY if you don't plan to try it out.
Do I need to remind you last week's Konami announcement?
They announced 4 games, 3 of them brand new IPs that have been made from the ground up. The other is a follow up to a very popular franchise, and it looks like Konami will put some EFFORT into it.
Square, easily the biggest third party at the moment, has two BRAND NEW games that are made exclusively for the Wii.
Along with the ports EA is also creating brand new games that make full use of the controller.
The thing is that some people, you included, are crying wolf a little too early. While its true that some developers will create rush jobs out of games, you forget that there are also developers that are more than willing to innovate and be creative.
Just give the Wii some time before you continue the "all games will be half assed!" nonsense.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 06, 2007, 05:20:51 PM
Given how much Nintendo fans crusade against certain critically acclaimed games, like GoW, the Final Fantasy Series, Resistance, Halo, GTA, God of War, etc. I'm not surprised to see Nintendo fans calling almost all the other games in existence crap not worth buying.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Pittbboi on February 06, 2007, 05:42:46 PM
Quote But there will also be games that range from rock solid to simply amazing and many will be truly ambitious and awe-inspiring.
All I want is the proof that this is coming, because so far we have gotten the tacked on controls, the low-budget, and the god-awful games. But we haven't even gotten word that we'll be getting games like what you described in the quote. So far we're all are going on faith, and not much in the way of facts. You can't blame certain Nintendo fans for being a little low on faith; Nintendo's really been abusing that faith until recently. I may be a pessimist, but heck, Nintendo made me that way.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 06, 2007, 06:07:38 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Kairon Given how much Nintendo fans crusade against certain critically acclaimed games, like GoW, the Final Fantasy Series, Resistance, Halo, GTA, God of War, etc. I'm not surprised to see Nintendo fans calling almost all the other games in existence crap not worth buying.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Actually I am on a crusade against most of those games because I've experienced far better games in those genres on the PC. Never liked the FF series besides FF2 (US version), God of War was ok, Halo/Resistance are a poor man's FPSs with crappy gamepad controls, GTA series is good but not amazing, and GoW was severely overrated.
In response to this topic I think Pap has a point, it is going to take time for 3rd parties to test the waters with Wii, not only are they hesitant to go to Nintendo but the Wii offers a brand spanking new way to play games like the analog stick before it. With all that taking into consideration I can handle a few poor games in order to get to the good stuff once they get the hang of the Wii. I may even get Manhunt but I'll have to wait and see.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Strell on February 06, 2007, 06:09:12 PM
I want all the games I can get.
But I also want all the good games I can get.
If given the choice, I want the latter to happen more than the first.
But this is faulty logic as regards your question, because you're posing it to the gaming community at large instead of a sea of individuals. The community at large wants as many games as possible. The individuals - or Nintendo fans, if you want to be like that - want games that match up to Nintendo's first party games.
This has been the most inherent problem with any system Nintendo makes. Third parties gotsta compete with Nintendo. That's like going to chef school and on the first day having to take down Batali or Morimoto. Even after ten years with some good experience under your belt, they'll still outclass you most of the time. The best you can hope to do is beat them on their worst day, which almost demands that it be your best day, because that tiny intersection of coincidence and circumstance is really your only hope.
So when someone gives me a crap game with bad controls or no attempt to make it look good or be immersive, why would I choose that when Nintendo is willing to give me a game in the same genre that looks great, plays amazing, and is overall the better experience?
However, as someone aware of the "gen wars," I understand it is in Nintendo's best interest to get those games that I might deem crappy or never play, because there is an audience for them.
So for myself, I want good games.
For Nintendo, I want a lot of games.
These two ideas CAN coexist, so I'm not so sure your original conjecture stands.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Pittbboi on February 06, 2007, 06:34:24 PM
Quote So when someone gives me a crap game with bad controls or no attempt to make it look good or be immersive, why would I choose that when Nintendo is willing to give me a game in the same genre that looks great, plays amazing, and is overall the better experience?
That's why I always cringe when I hear the "but you're competing with Nintendo argument". I mean, it's so basic: If you release crap against a Nintendo game of COURSE your games are going to sell like crap. How can third parties even believe this? Especially considering that most third parties (well, atleast the bigger and/or older ones) have franchises that could MORE than just hold their own against a Nintendo game. Think of the golden age of the SNES: A lot of the games that made the system heaven on Earth (I'm tearing up just thinking about it) WEREN'T Nintendo games. Nintendo may have Miyamoto, but they don't have Kojima or Matsuno or Bleszinski; there a visionaries out there that are creating games that, sometimes, give Nintendo a serious run for its money (especially now that they seem so intent on pimping out their franchises any way they can). They make games that Nintendo console owners would snatch up just as eagerly as Nintendo games if developers only cared to bring them over.
So I just find "the games will be competing against Nintendo!" to be a piss-poor excuse, whether it's coming from an Nintendo fan or a lazy developer.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 06, 2007, 06:53:52 PM
Yeah, but where's the PROOF that Nintendo gamers will buy good third party titles when they come around? This entire "we'll buy good stuff when it comes" is a huge leap of faith to publishers betting millions of dollars at a time.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 06, 2007, 07:10:26 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Kairon Yeah, but where's the PROOF that Nintendo gamers will buy good third party titles when they come around? This entire "we'll buy good stuff when it comes" is a huge leap of faith to publishers betting millions of dollars at a time.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
If I recall RE4 sold quite well for GC and Viewtiful Joe as well. Besides them not sure what other third parties had great games on GC!
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 06, 2007, 07:50:40 PM
So you basically have to be among the best games of the generation (RE4) to sell well on a Nintendo console? Isn't that standard a bit high?
And... did Viewtiful Joe actually sell well? Because none of its sequels did.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 06, 2007, 07:54:46 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Kairon So you basically have to be among the best games of the generation (RE4) to sell well on a Nintendo console? Isn't that standard a bit high?
And... did Viewtiful Joe actually sell well? Because none of its sequels did.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Well there weren't really that many exclusive 3rd party titles for Wii anyway, didn't Soul Calibur 2 sell decent as well? I know at least VJ1 sold better on the GC than PS2.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 06, 2007, 10:10:06 PM
Quote Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix Well there weren't really that many exclusive 3rd party titles for Wii anyway, didn't Soul Calibur 2 sell decent as well? I know at least VJ1 sold better on the GC than PS2.
SC2 on GC sold better than it did on PS2 and Xbox. Then for no reason SC3 went exclusive to PS2.
VJ1 sold pretty well on the GC but then they released VJ2 on GC & PS2 and they both pretty much flopped, but it sold alot better on GC still.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 06, 2007, 10:37:18 PM
Sure, SC2 sold respectably, but it DID have Link in it after all. That's not a third party game, that's fan service.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Mario on February 06, 2007, 10:42:31 PM
Tales of Symphonia = Good Game = Sold Well Baten Kaitos = Crap = Flopped
NAMCO "LETS MAKE BK2 FOR GC!"
Most third parties aren't successful on Nintendo systems because they are STUPID!
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Magik on February 07, 2007, 12:10:34 AM
Quote Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Quote Originally posted by: Kairon Yeah, but where's the PROOF that Nintendo gamers will buy good third party titles when they come around? This entire "we'll buy good stuff when it comes" is a huge leap of faith to publishers betting millions of dollars at a time.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
If I recall RE4 sold quite well for Wii and Viewtiful Joe as well. Besides them not sure what other third parties had great games on Wii!
Eh? RE4 was a Wii game? I thought it was a GC game?
Anyways, RE4 didn't sell well enough for Capcom to keep it exclusive before porting it over to the PS2. Viewtiful Joe sold 'well' in terms of 3rd party sales, but still pales in comparison to even some of the less stellar Nintendo games.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: ShyGuy on February 07, 2007, 12:43:51 AM
RE4 was announced as coming to the PS2 before the GC version even released.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Strell on February 07, 2007, 01:44:16 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Pittbboi
That's why I always cringe when I hear the "but you're competing with Nintendo argument". I mean, it's so basic: If you release crap against a Nintendo game of COURSE your games are going to sell like crap. How can third parties even believe this? Especially considering that most third parties (well, atleast the bigger and/or older ones) have franchises that could MORE than just hold their own against a Nintendo game. Think of the golden age of the SNES: A lot of the games that made the system heaven on Earth (I'm tearing up just thinking about it) WEREN'T Nintendo games. Nintendo may have Miyamoto, but they don't have Kojima or Matsuno or Bleszinski; there a visionaries out there that are creating games that, sometimes, give Nintendo a serious run for its money (especially now that they seem so intent on pimping out their franchises any way they can). They make games that Nintendo console owners would snatch up just as eagerly as Nintendo games if developers only cared to bring them over.
So I just find "the games will be competing against Nintendo!" to be a piss-poor excuse, whether it's coming from an Nintendo fan or a lazy developer.
You're saying two parts of the same piece but acting like they are in contention with one another, when they aren't.
Third parties have traditionally whined when their games don't sell well on a Nintendo platform, and this is directly evident when you look at the average Nintendo console owner's library. I know that if I inventoried my Gamecube, DS, and GBA libraries, I'd wager 70-80% of these were Nintendo developed or published games. And these encompass almost every genre out there with few exceptions (serious sports simulations and survival horror might be the only ones not covered, outside of small niche games like vertical shmups). Point being that why would I buy Crash Bandicoot racing when I have Mario Kart? Why get GenericFutureRacingGame when I have F-Zero?
It doesn't help that for the last two generations, Nintendo had a lower userbase than their closest competitors (except for Sega). This only adds to it because not only do we have a userbase composed of people who will pick up a franchise game over a third party game (even if it's a franchise series, like Crash Bandicoot), but also a lower number of users overall. Meaning third parties will sell less almost all the time.
The fact is, however, that despite this sort of elitist attitude a general Nintendo library will have, the overwhelming problem is the smaller userbase.
You're arguing by calling this a "piss poor excuse." It's not an excuse, it's pure cold hard fact, and it's a situation that doesn't happen as much on Sony/MS systems. Sony has the GT series and - to some extent - things like Ratchet and Clank. MS has Halo and....Halo sequels. Their first party offerings cannot compete in quantity against Nintendo's, and don't approach the variety in any degree.
Note that I am not arguing that Kojima and others can't compare with Miyamoto/Nintendo, because I'm not. I think you assume that I am. But I'm not, and mostly, Nintendo fans don't, but only when they get a good game. I.e., we'll buy RE4. We won't buy a crappy port of a PS2 game that came out 6 months before, and you somehow managed to screw up the FPS and controls.
You said two basic things in your post - 1) Third parties can make good games, thus 2) They can't whine and Nintendo fans can't use this as an excuse. But that's exactly the issue here, primarily because situation 1 hardly exists. Even when it does, and even if something sells, third parties complain (Soul Calibur 2). And even when fans buy up that game (again, RE4) it doesn't seem to change the situation.
It's an issue that is inherent to every Nintendo platform and always will be.
Again, I will buy good games. Period. I don't care who makes them. But don't come bitching to me when you gave me a slipshod port of a crappy game that is six months old, and whine when I pick something else over it. That's retarded. Developers who say such things need to have their pants pulled down and be spanked with moonrocks.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Ceric on February 07, 2007, 03:45:54 AM
First off I'm really looking forward to Dewy Adventures. If it is done right I could really get into that game. Second there are some third party series that haven't graced Nintendo that I pick up in an instant. Mainly if Tecmo makes Monter Rancher 5 for the Wii.
Though, encase Tecmo reads this, I want it to have the training of 4, the Monster Heart of 3, and the monster go it alone quests of 2. Expecially that last one. I don't care if its "Realistic" like 4 or cel-shaded like 3, actually I prefer more advanced cel-shading methinks. I like it to also be able to use channels and VC games as "disc" to make monsters plus the normal stuff.
I'm not really a series person actually... though I would like KH3, wife really likes it but after Chain of Memories and KH2 I'm pretty cold on the series, to come to Wii so I don't have to buy another system, if not Wii 360 because I rather have one of those. I'm glad about DDR and will probably pick that up. Beyond those I'll tend to play it by ear. Right now my collection is about 50/50, (Rayman, TP, Wii Sports, and probably soon Pangya, I'm renting right now and I think I'll buy it.) I would also have Marvel Ultimate Alliance and Super Monkey Ball but, on Marvel Ultimate Alliance I had beaten the game during the rental and I really want to try the 360 version, if I ever get one, to see if I like the controls more. On Monkey Ball, before I returned it I got seriously stuck on 2 levels in world 6 that I don't know if I could ever beat. Though if it drops in price I'll probably pick that up as well. My VC collection is also very much not Nintendo, LoZ I think is my only Nintendo game. In fact I only have 2 games for a Nintendo System, so about 1/3 of them.
I give third parties a chance especially since I have my GameFly account.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on February 07, 2007, 03:57:58 AM
It isn't necessarily the case that both complaints come from the same Nintendo fans. Imagine group A wants lots of third party games and group B thinks of them as pointless crap. Which group would have complained during the GameCube's waning days? Which group would complain when lots of third party games are being announced?
Personally, my tastes in gaming have changed a bit recently. I think that the decline in third party support during the GameCube's life made me get used to not playing third party games. The DS awakened a hunger in me that I forgot I had, and now I look at the Wii's promise of third party variety and I wants it.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 07, 2007, 05:07:11 AM
I want great Nintendo games. That's all I'm concerned about. If a third party game worth purchasing comes out, that's great, and I'll get it, but that's not what I look for when I buy a Nintendo console (which is the only console I buy).
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Ian Sane on February 07, 2007, 05:41:29 AM
"The Wii is a whole different story. With ease of development, mass appeal and tons of potential, developers are now making a lot of games for it, but now the fans are complaining that the Wii will be home to un-inspired ports, rush jobs and third party games we don't care about..."
I think a lot of that is two different groups. One group is the fans of the NES/SNES era that consider a quality console to be a combination of great first party games and great third party support. They're calling for the support. The second group is more the N64/Cube era fans. They've been "raised" in an environment where Nintendo supplies 90% of the top titles so their perspective on third party support is screwed up. They spend years trying to defend against the PS1 with excuses like "most third party games are crap" and eventually they believed it. They're the ones that mostly only buy first party titles and they may be doing some of the complaining now.
That is also what has created that "third parties have to compete with Nintendo" myth. This problem didn't occur on the NES, SNES, GBC or GBA and doesn't happen on the DS. Why? Because everyone bought those systems so the userbase was large and varied. The N64 and Gamecube are considered jokes by anyone but the hardcore Nintendo nut. Thus the userbase was small and had far too many of the "only Nintendo matters" Nintendo fans that sprung up during the N64 years. So third party games didn't sell as well. But if the Wii attracts a wider group like the dominating Nintendo systems did then that problem disappears. The Nintendo-only fans will still be Nintendo-only but the userbase will be varied enough that it won't matter.
Though regarding the Wii support I'm still iffy though Manhunt 2 is a huge deal and makes me feel much more confident. I still don't see the Wii as the top console yet. I want to see Nintendo return to the situation where when someone owns a console you just assume it's the Wii and when a game is annouced you just assume it's for the Wii. I think there is also a difference between the SNES third party support and the GBA third party support. Both games had almost everyone on board BUT the SNES support was better because it was the number one focus. Being a portable the GBA was seen often as a place to dump crap and make a profit doing it. Portables aren't usually the main focus for a company so even though they supported the GBA with lots of titles their main focus was still the PS2. I do fear the possibility of the Wii getting a lot of games dumped on it but still not being the main focus. The Wii is very different and we might see both it and the Xbox 360 co-existing as dominating consoles appealing to different markets. Thus it may be profitable for a third party to aggressively support BOTH consoles with different product. Therefore there is a risk of the Wii being a dumping ground while the focus is on the Xbox 360. The reverse could happen but I think the Wii is more likely candidate for dumping because of the non-traditional nature of it.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: IceCold on February 07, 2007, 06:07:33 AM
Quote That is also what has created that "third parties have to compete with Nintendo" myth. This problem didn't occur on the NES, SNES, GBC or GBA and doesn't happen on the DS
It most definitely happens on the DS. Nintendo almost single-handedly made that console a success, and third parties are still way behind.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: segagamer12 on February 07, 2007, 06:20:55 AM
not for everyone, I stuck with GC through and through tooth and nail, at its peak I had 30 games in my collection and growing, out fo the 30 I had FIVE were publsihed by Nintendo NONE were developede by NIntendo, I know I am an exception but ITS TRUE there are gamers who want the Nintendo games AND the other stuff and not JUST Nintendo games. still there was just barley enough good 3rd party stuff to keep me exclusive to GC, until my sister got an Xbox and we grabbed like five geames for it and went back to GC.
SOme of the BEST games I played on GC were 3rd party,. so naturaly I look forward to the announcments by 3rd parties.
its no9 secret I love SEGA, always have always will, and for the most part love evrythign they do (hate MB but thats a differnty story) anyways so for me to see more SEGA support is a good thing. Thne I LOVE, and I cant stress this enough, MORTAL KOMBAT, it is HANDS DOWN my favorite series, and until GC ALL of MKs best games were on NINTENDO platforms even GC had the BEST MK 3d ever made. Yet when Shaolin Monks came out I bought a ps2 played it then trading it in for more GC games.
Namco, now thats a tough one, I LOVED SC2 beat it thougrouly unlocked everyting stopmed everyopne I challened, great gaem and defiantely one of the BEST 3d fighting games on GC not just overal. I even had TOS and liked it a lot.
I had more Ubisoft and Activions games than anything and to tell you the truth I liked most of the ones I had. I even had a big EA selection too. I dont count either of those devs out becausde thery make GOOD GAMES and lost of them too.
If EA is making a studio JUST FOR Wii then that says something for thier support. Disney I can live without but at least EA takes Wii seriously and they still make enoug good games to satisfy me and most other gamers.
Oh and I had ALL the TMNT games cuz they just rocked.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Ian Sane on February 07, 2007, 06:34:29 AM
"It most definitely happens on the DS. Nintendo almost single-handedly made that console a success, and third parties are still way behind."
Are third parties bailing on the DS and using the excuse that they can't compete with Nintendo's titles? No. The third party support is still there.
I'll agree that Nintendo almost made the DS a success by themselves but I consider that the case with the GBA too. Both systems had almost every third party on board but, being portables, were largely used a dumping grounds for crap while the home consoles got the bulk of the real support.
The important thing is that on the DS the third parties haven't left. Obviously they make enough profit on DS titles that it doesn't matter if Nintendo's own games crush them in sales. On the Cube third parties were leaving because they didn't feel it financially made sense to support it. That is what the "competing with Nintendo" myth is about.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: segagamer12 on February 07, 2007, 06:42:35 AM
Konami, Namco, Capcom, Square, Enix, Takara, Techmo, EA, Activision, Atari (Tengen) Midway, and Acclaim never had ANY TROUBLE competing with Nintendo durring the NES and SNES eras. N64 lack of suppoort wasnt cuz 3rd parties didnt make money it was because of the extra cost making games on carts casued them to make LESS money so therefore it *was* higher risk.
Good game makers can compete with the best in the industry when they push themselves. Wii is forcing devs to push themselves or be lazy and cash in. Its an either or eiother push the system to compete with the higher end 360 stuff or be lazy and go for the quick buck. I never bought they whole competing with Nintendo BS either cuz Nintendo games are spread out enough smart companies can get thier stuff known. not to mention the 3rd partie games that still sold well on GC yet sequels were canceled. Deadly Allaince was one, but its reasons are iffy cuz Midway still hates Nintendo but is smart enough to go where the money is.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: NWR_Lindy on February 07, 2007, 06:53:06 AM
There is no way that you can say third parties are trailing behind on the DS when you have Square Enix making Dragon Quest IX for it. That fact alone blows that theory out of the water.
With the DS, I own a lot of third-party games. I have Castlevania: DoS, Castlevania: PoR, Sonic Rush, Age of Empires, Nanostray, Phoenix Wright 1 & 2, Puyo Pop Fever, and Trauma Center: Under the Knife. That's nine QUALITY third-party games. A full third of my DS game library is comprised of third-party titles, and that's a higher percentage than any Nintendo system I've ever owned.
The DS is ruling because of its third-party support, not in spite of its lack of it.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 07, 2007, 06:54:57 AM
I like the "two types of gamers that take turns complaining" theory you guys put forth. I think I'll subscribe to it. The people complaining now are not necessarily the people who were demanding these games.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: segagamer12 on February 07, 2007, 09:05:09 AM
well I wasn't complaing I was merely pointing out that 3rd parties *can* compete with Nintendo and often do a good job. Nintendo isn't the end all be all developer some people think they are. They make games that appeal to a wide range of people, but that doesn't mean every game they make will appeal to every gamer who likes them.
I LOVE, and I can't stress this enough, Mario and Zelda with a PASSION I have collectibles and mermorabia of these characters even dvds of thier shows and a lot of useless crap, BUT I still HATE Mario Sports games, didn't care for TTYD, can't stand WW, and was too disapointed to finish Sunshine. Does that mean I am not a true nintendo fan? what if I told you I don't like pokemon, well even if I give *good* reasons there will be people who flame me cuz I am stupid for not liking it or say things like I am not a real Nintendo fan, blah blah blah yada yada I don't care.
I am used to this and I don't care, any fandom is going to be the same way. If I gotoa TF website and casualy mention I didn't care for BW all of a sudden I ama "trukk not mokkey bigot" for no reason at all.
Nintendo has always made quality hardware and event hough I chose the Genesis over SNES I give Nintendo major props for the Systems and have since rediscovered its magic I missed out on. But in no way does that mean everygame I liked on it was made by Nintendo. It is the same with DS, GC, N64, etc. There are a handfull of Nintendo made games that I like, and I don't question, ever, the quality of thier games, even the ones I don't like. Most of the time it is something that even if I put it into words noone will get so i dont even try anymore I dont like to argue so I try and keep opinions to myself.
Now the FACTS are that Nintendo *needs* as much 3rd party support as they can get inorder for tier system to please the most people. regardless of what selfproclaimed hardcore loyalists say, there are a number of people who actualyl enjoy Madden football, Need For Speed, Mortal Kombat, Grand Theft Auto, and a number of other games Nintendo fans bshed last gen now are praising for coming to Wii. The gamers who want to play GTA or Bully, Madden or NFS, won't 'touch' a wii unless those games show up. I know that nobody directly accused me of these things but it has been assumed by some that if you buy a Nintendo systems it is to play Nintendo games and thats it.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 07, 2007, 09:56:56 AM
I got the Mario and Zelda TV Show DVDs too! I can't wait for Captain N!
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Nick DiMola on February 07, 2007, 09:58:37 AM
"I know that nobody directly accused me of these things but it has been assumed by some that if you buy a Nintendo systems it is to play Nintendo games and thats it. "
For the most part, that has been mostly true for the past couple generations. I have always supplemented my Nintendo system with the competitors offering to catch all of the great games the never made it Nintendo's way. I think it is great that the Wii will be getting some variety. With the Gamecube, it never really bothered me because I had a PS2 and an Xbox. For this generation, the Wii remote brings a whole new element to things, and I want to experience as many games as possible on my Nintendo system, not just Nintendo made games (though I tend to like those the most). Stronger Wii support is a blessing, I don't care how you want to dice it up. It just makes that $250 investment in your living room that much more worth it.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: segagamer12 on February 07, 2007, 10:15:22 AM
true but I didnt have trouble finding enough to keep me busy, but I am more of a collector than a gamer I buy games just to sayI have them not alwasy to play them. so I am an exception and tend to forget that.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: trip1eX on February 07, 2007, 12:39:00 PM
I just want 3rd parties to make some Wii exclusives to fill in the gaps that Nintendo leaves.
That means online fps games, and western rpgs and stuff like that.
I think the so-so Wii games will be ports with Wii controls. And well I could without most of those.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Adrock on February 07, 2007, 01:07:42 PM
Wii also happens to be devoid of Japanese RPGs. The closest Nintendo is to filling that gap is Fire Emblem, which is more strategy RPG than anything. There is that mysterious Camelot RPG that seems to have fallen off the face of the planet so that doesn't even really count.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 07, 2007, 01:16:23 PM
Currently, the console with the most JRPGs is the X360... But yeah, the question is when will the PS3's supposed third party support mature in the RPG field, or will they lose some series to the Wii?
Hmmm... this isn't an RPG per se but... could Harvest Moon become Wii exclusive?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 07, 2007, 02:59:41 PM
Let's remember "The Formula" again, shall we?
More crap games = larger overall library = more consoles sold = more 3rd party interest in development = more AAA games.
Ergo...
More crap games = More AAA Games
You have any idea how many total sh*t games the PS2 has out for it? And yet, when a clueless customer asks that simple question "Which one has the most games?" you can bet your ass another PS2 gets rung up and sold.
The Wii will thrive if it has that edge going for it. Trust me.
On the subject of crap games, why do you care? Crap games don't hurt you. There has yet to be a game so terrible that everyone who owns the console it's made for will find themselves mocked purely by association. All it means is that the Wii's game library has increased by 1, and like I said, that has a very beneficial cumulative effect.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 07, 2007, 03:38:16 PM
Will the systems war be reclassified as the size of game libraries war?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Crimm on February 07, 2007, 03:59:09 PM
No, crap games don't hurt. However, I don't like thinking that the Wii is the machine that companies just crank out a quick and dirty port for. I want them to at least pretend they're going to put some effort into it.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 07, 2007, 04:15:07 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Crimm No, crap games don't hurt. However, I don't like thinking that the Wii is the machine that companies just crank out a quick and dirty port for. I want them to at least pretend they're going to put some effort into it.
And they WILL.
Just like SB said, the PS2 was home to A LOT of games, many of the crap. But it also featured some amazing games, some being the best available this generation.
As an example, Okami, one of last year's most celebrated games, was born on the PS2. Would the PS2 have gotten that game if it wasn't the home to a great selection of games? Probably, but if there's anything the GC taught us is that when developers are not happy with how a game is selling on a console they will expand it and release it across other systems.
The Wii is only 3 months old, the games are barely starting to come. The games announced range from multiplatform ports to Wii exclusive. Please, put down the fanboy angst aside and just wait. If you want to avoid the inevitable bad games, fine. Its your money. But please, and I say this to EVERYONE, don't put down the efforts of third party developers. Some are truly dedicated and really want to develop of it.
At least give them a chance before jumping at them claiming "YOUR GAMES WILL SUCK AND WILL RUIN THE WII!!!!".
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: jasonditz on February 07, 2007, 04:27:34 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Kairon Currently, the console with the most JRPGs is the X360... But yeah, the question is when will the PS3's supposed third party support mature in the RPG field, or will they lose some series to the Wii?
Hmmm... this isn't an RPG per se but... could Harvest Moon become Wii exclusive?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red Kairon@aol.com
If I were to pick whose going to end up with the most JRPGs it's going to be the DS.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 07, 2007, 05:15:09 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Crimm No, crap games don't hurt. However, I don't like thinking that the Wii is the machine that companies just crank out a quick and dirty port for. I want them to at least pretend they're going to put some effort into it.
That's like asking that human beings on the whole stop being lazy, selfish and incompetent. You might as well just demand that Niagara Falls start flowing up.
We're gonna get crap games by the truckload and nothing would change that, but it IS for the best because someone out there is buying those crap games too.
When it comes time to choose a console to launch a AAA title on, the system that had tons of crap games which gradually expanded its userbase will be the one chosen because of the number of consoles sold. As strange as it sounds, we have crap games to thank for AAA titles.
Think of how beautiful flowers need dirt to grow and you'll understand the analogy.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 07, 2007, 05:24:12 PM
S_B, in some occasions plants need manure...which is ANIMAL CRAP.
Now that I think about it...
Manure: The absolutely god awful games Dirt: Bad games that are still somewhat playable Seed: Average game, but has potential Bud: Solid title, but still needs improvement Flower in bloom: A rock solid, amazing little game. Beautiful flower: The absolute best game ever!
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: BigJim on February 08, 2007, 04:06:16 AM
I like Ian's "two types of gamers" theory as well.
As long as there are desirable games coming to platforms that exclude Wii, there will always be demanding consumers that are not satisfied. And there's nothing really wrong with that. We should always demand more and better. I've never seen a company successfully self-mediate and positively dictate what's best for everyone.
There has been a problem that works against the demanding Nintendo consumer, and that is mathematics. If there were only 2 consoles, 3rd party support would be more equally diverse. When you've got 3, someone can easily get squeezed out, and clearly Nintendo was. Thus the situation that arose where Nintendo needed to sustain its own platforms, and their belief that they had to "make their own market" in the form of the Wii.
The Type 1 Nintendo consumer that Ian mentioned (NES/SNES era) is not going to entirely like this, and really their only recourse as this point is to adopt Wii60 or PSWii, as much as the idea of buying 2 platforms (or even just buying a non-Nintendo platform in general) might suck. This generation can, at best, only be Nintendo getting back into the Type 1's game. It would take a number of years to obtain critical mass and get things really moving on all cylinders. Wii2 may be a whole other story depending on how well Nintendo can capture momentum in the next couple years. Games like Manhunt right now are small battle wins; the war is still extremely young. If they turn out to be isolated token titles like the mature games of GameCube were, then the tide's not really turning. Wait and see.
Title: RE: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Ian Sane on February 08, 2007, 04:59:58 AM
"This generation can, at best, only be Nintendo getting back into the Type 1's game. It would take a number of years to obtain critical mass and get things really moving on all cylinders."
I think this is better than nothing and I would quite content seeing this kind of performance out of a Nintendo console. On the Cube it not only felt like things were never going to improve but that Nintendo themselves didn't care and weren't making a serious effort. The Xbox wasn't number one last gen but it was always doing better and looking more and more like a serious contender for that spot in a later generation. The Cube went from second place to last and it became very obvious early on that it had no chance. Neither console was number one but one was going up and the other was going down and that had a huge effect on the general attitude and satisfaction of the userbase. Thus the Xbox's life ended on a high note as a popular brand name while the Cube was largely forgotten about two years before it ended. It's the difference between a team that didn't make the playoffs but has tons of young talent and potential and a team that didn't make the playoffs and isn't going to for the immediate future.
Title: RE:Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)
Post by: Kairon on February 08, 2007, 06:07:56 AM
