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Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Neodymium on February 05, 2007, 06:33:38 AM

Title: I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: Neodymium on February 05, 2007, 06:33:38 AM: Yeah, so I'm delighted to have component cables at last. After setting the resolution to 480p and trying our Super Castlevania 4, I couldn't believe the difference in color quality and reduction of blurriness. All seemed well.. until I booted up WiiSports. Yes, WiiSports, Zelda, Red Steel.. all jaggy as hell. Never mind that the 2-D stuff looks a lot better, but the jaggies are unspeakable on polygons.

Anyone know how to treat the jagginess? I need some kind of help because it's an epidemic on the scale of 480i's blurriness.
Title: RE:I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: Rhoq on February 05, 2007, 06:49:21 AM: The "jaggies" you are referring to are a symptom of the higher resolution 480p output. Unfortunately, the composite cable, while producing a lower quality video signal actually filters a lot of the visual imperfections. Jumping into 480p is going to make everything clearer, however all of those "imperfections" will now be quite noticeable. The only thing can do to correct it would be to adjust the sharpness settings on your TV. Remember though, if you do this - you'll be blurring the picture, almost making your component cable purchase a waste of money since doing this will make it look like the composite signal once again.
Title: RE: I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 05, 2007, 06:50:13 AM: It's due to lack of FSAA being used. Blame Nintendo for not sending out full-blown Wii devkits early enough, and also for the pure laziness of not enabling FSAA on Twilight Princess.
Title: RE:I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: Rhoq on February 05, 2007, 06:56:45 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
It's due to lack of FSAA being used. Blame Nintendo for not sending out full-blown Wii devkits early enough, and also for the pure laziness of not enabling FSAA on Twilight Princess.

I'm not 100% convinced that the problem is solely due to a lack of FSAA. The impression I'm getting from the original post is that this is a new problem which is just now rearing it's ugly head with the jump to 480p. I know I can usually see anti-aliasing issues with just a composite signal, so there is something else going on here.
Title: RE:I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: JonLeung on February 05, 2007, 07:00:25 AM: I call this the "Way Of The Warrior syndrome". You may have heard me mention it before. I remember reading a review of Way Of The Warrior (for the 3D0). It was one of those fighting games with digitized actors popular around the time of the success of Mortal Kombat. The animation was atrocious, but the still graphics were really sharp. The part of the review that stuck with me was "the graphics are SO good, you can see how cheap the costumes are." EDIT: Wikipedia directed me to this page here where you can see a couple screenshots of Way Of The Warrior.

So now that the image is SO sharp, you can clearly see more jaggies. You lose the anti-aliasing of sorts that the muddier composite signal was giving you by default.

I still prefer the component cable, though. The vividness of the colour makes up for it, and the sharpness is overall a good thing.

Switch between cables with SSBM's character select screen as an example of colour and the artwork (notably the character close-ups) in Soul Calibur II as an example of the sharpness. I've done both when demonstrating the GameCube's component cables and I don't think I'd want to go back to composite.
Title: RE: I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: ryancoke on February 05, 2007, 07:18:05 AM: Brandogg, I don't think the Wii is powerful enough to do FSAA. At least not more than 2x FSAA which in my experience is not worth the choppier framerate. Maybe in 2nd generation games companies can experiment more with FSAA.
Title: RE: I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: Dirk Temporo on February 05, 2007, 07:19:38 AM: LOL JAGGIES
Title: RE: I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 05, 2007, 08:31:15 AM: Look at Dinosaur Planet, beautiful game w/ FSAA, it almost looks like it runs in 720p. The Wii is plenty capable.
Title: RE:I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: ryancoke on February 05, 2007, 09:38:18 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
Look at Dinosaur Planet, beautiful game w/ FSAA, it almost looks like it runs in 720p. The Wii is plenty capable.

are you talking Dinosaur Planet on N64 or Starfox Adventures for DaCube?
Title: RE:I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: Maverick on February 05, 2007, 09:57:46 AM: I can put up with the jaggies no problem. The complaint I have from the component cables is now I get to see how little games actually support full 16:9 mode. Curse you empty 1-inch spaces on both sides of my screen!!!!
Title: RE: I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: WalkingTheCow on February 05, 2007, 12:18:01 PM: Yeah, the games'll probobly have some better anti-aliasing as the newer software comes out. That being said, it is a little bothersome now. I do recommend turning the sharpness on your TV down as it really does make it look a bit smoother and you're still getting the better color of the component cables. But when we get some games with better AA the component cables will really be a huge improvement.
Title: RE: I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: Bloodworth on February 05, 2007, 02:05:51 PM: I'm not really seeing any jaggies in component, but I don't have progressive scan. Are you using an HDTV? Because no matter what, the game is still running at 480 pixels, and that is always going to be amplified when you're used to seeing higher res images.
Title: RE: I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: ThePerm on February 05, 2007, 02:19:52 PM: also, make sure if your using a widescreen the wii is actually set to widescreen mode
Title: RE: I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 06, 2007, 02:33:39 AM: Yes, I'm talking about Star Fox Adventures. I forgot they dropped the 'Dinosaur Planet' from the title.
Title: RE:I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: JonLeung on February 06, 2007, 03:42:48 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: Maverick
I can put up with the jaggies no problem. The complaint I have from the component cables is now I get to see how little games actually support full 16:9 mode. Curse you empty 1-inch spaces on both sides of my screen!!!!

You need a bigger screen, first of all. I didn't know they even made 9.18-inch screens.

(My math could be wrong as I did this quick, but to compare 16:9 to 4:3 I changed the ratios to be 16:9 vs. 12:9. Which means the total difference is 4:9. On either side of the screen that's 2:9, which you say is equal to one inch in width. So if 2=1 inch, then a 16:9 screen would be 8 inches:4.5 inches. The square root of the sum of the squares of both numbers gives us the diagonal, according to Pythagoras, which is the square root of 84.25 square inches, or approximately 9.18 inches.)

I suppose that sitting at a distance (your eyeballs aren't pressed up against the screen, after all), it might appear to be one inch wide if it was actually larger.
Title: RE:I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: 31 Flavas on February 06, 2007, 05:03:50 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: NeodymiumAnyone know how to treat the jagginess? I need some kind of help because it's an epidemic on the scale of 480i's blurriness.
Good god, 480i is not that bad. Neither are the jaggies. Quit the dramatics.
Title: RE:I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: 31 Flavas on February 06, 2007, 05:09:26 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: Rhoq
Remember though, if you do this - you'll be blurring the picture, almost making your component cable purchase a waste of money since doing this will make it look like the composite signal once again.
"Sharpening" the picture introduces artifacts of its own though. So find a good balance. Modest amounts are good enough.
Title: RE:I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: Maverick on February 06, 2007, 06:06:12 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
Quote
Originally posted by: Maverick
I can put up with the jaggies no problem. The complaint I have from the component cables is now I get to see how little games actually support full 16:9 mode. Curse you empty 1-inch spaces on both sides of my screen!!!!

You need a bigger screen, first of all. I didn't know they even made 9.18-inch screens.

(My math could be wrong as I did this quick, but to compare 16:9 to 4:3 I changed the ratios to be 16:9 vs. 12:9. Which means the total difference is 4:9. On either side of the screen that's 2:9, which you say is equal to one inch in width. So if 2=1 inch, then a 16:9 screen would be 8 inches:4.5 inches. The square root of the sum of the squares of both numbers gives us the diagonal, according to Pythagoras, which is the square root of 84.25 square inches, or approximately 9.18 inches.)

I suppose that sitting at a distance (your eyeballs aren't pressed up against the screen, after all), it might appear to be one inch wide if it was actually larger.

I haven't actually measured the amount of blank space. It just seems weird that so far the only game that has used the full amount of my TV is Wii Sports.
Title: RE: I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: Ceric on February 06, 2007, 06:39:52 AM: I actually have the opposite problem. On my TV it overscans and a little of the top bottom and sides is taken off.
Title: RE:I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: Bloodworth on February 06, 2007, 07:19:38 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: 31 Flavas"Sharpening" the picture introduces artifacts of its own though. So find a good balance. Modest amounts are good enough.

Actually this could be the problem. If your TV sharpness is turned up too high, you may very well be seeing jaggies produced by your TV that have nothing to do with the Wii's output.
Title: RE: I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on February 06, 2007, 07:39:49 AM: I may misremember, but I believe the sharpness setting on a TV is just a filter intended to counter the blurriness introduced by a crappy input. If you have clean input, then the appropriate sharpness setting is 0. Remember, the factory defaults in a TV are set up with a Best Buy's lighting and a split every-which-way cruddy video signal in mind. They're skewed quite a bit, and the manufacturer absolutely expects you to monkey with them to get a good picture.
Title: RE:I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: Maverick on February 06, 2007, 08:07:58 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I actually have the opposite problem. On my TV it overscans and a little of the top bottom and sides is taken off.

So your games have parts of the image cut off by the TV? That's really weird; are my blank spaces and your lack thereof directly related to which cables we're using or is it just a TV/Wii problem?
Title: RE:I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: Raij on February 07, 2007, 04:29:23 PM: I have a 42" Toshiba LCD HDTV and when I play my Wii on it, it has a lot of blinking lights (they look like dead pixels) when there are a lot of effects happening in the game, for example the weather effects in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess.

At first I thought they were dead pixels, but there were too many of them and they only appear in the Wii games and the Wii channel menu... They are not there when I use the others channels. I can't figure out if it's the Wii or the TV... But I don't think it's the TV since this only happens when I play the Wii. Maybe it's the cables? Or the games themselves? I dunno...

Anyone else have this happen?
Title: RE: I finally got the component cables and then..
Post by: IceCold on February 07, 2007, 05:28:27 PM: JonLeung had this problem recently - check out that thread..

Also, welcome to the forums!