Post by: Artimus on January 19, 2007, 12:18:54 PM
Quote
Capcom’s Keiji Inafune, the creator of Dead Rising and Lost Planet, has announced that he is indeed working on a Wii game. No information was given concerning the title, but Mr. Inafune is hoping to show the project this year.
http://gonintendo.com/
Post by: Caliban on January 19, 2007, 12:58:29 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 19, 2007, 01:59:42 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 19, 2007, 02:32:01 PM
Post by: BlkPaladin on January 19, 2007, 02:32:07 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 19, 2007, 04:58:28 PM
Post by: Viewtiful mario on January 19, 2007, 05:20:24 PM
Frankil I wouldn't mid if it was a wii dead rising with all the Zombies being modified mii's, then you can see mii's you've created as Zombies.
Post by: Adrock on January 19, 2007, 05:23:04 PM
Both Dead Rising and Lost Planet got old after a while because most of the game consists of killing hordes of enemies over and over and over.... I hope this game is different.
Post by: Crimm on January 19, 2007, 05:40:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
MEGA MAN BATTLE CARD ZEKS REVOLUTION: DASH
Sources tell me he's working on a Mega Man game based on the Pokemon Dash engine.
Post by: Artimus on January 19, 2007, 06:31:28 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 19, 2007, 06:37:05 PM
Even if it is a megaman game I'd expect some use of the Wii remote. Buster aiming anyone?
Post by: Kairon on January 19, 2007, 08:13:19 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Dirk Temporo on January 19, 2007, 08:47:32 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 19, 2007, 09:06:54 PM
Post by: utarefsoN on January 20, 2007, 05:29:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Viewtiful mario
If he makes an original wii game I hope he gives it as much attention as he did Lost Planet in terms of advertising. Ad's for that game was EVERYWERE!
Frankil I wouldn't mid if it was a wii dead rising with all the Zombies being modified mii's, then you can see mii's you've created as Zombies.
I thinks that has to do with Microsoft. Remeber halo commercials run damn near a year. Its a nintendo game so i guarantee you will never see an ad for it unless its a kids game on cartoon network. Otherwise forget about it. I have YET to see a commercial for Zelda! If i havent seen a Zelda commercial i cant possibly expect to see a commercial for anything else. dis game is doomz.
Dead Phoenix will be a great game to revive. Hears hoping. I hoping they are porting RE5! I would feel all warm and fuzzy.
Post by: IceCold on January 20, 2007, 08:09:23 AM
Also, Nintendo has set aside $200 million US for advertising - that's more than enough.
Post by: Galford on January 20, 2007, 03:18:15 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 20, 2007, 06:22:55 PM
Post by: Viewtiful mario on January 21, 2007, 04:20:29 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on January 21, 2007, 05:29:39 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 21, 2007, 02:34:44 PM
Despite the fact that I don't even care for the GTA genre, it pleases me to see games like Godfather being designed for Wii controls and rumors of Reggie Regginating Rockstar about bringing GTA to the Wii because these are the games that will permanently negate Nintendo's previous kiddie image.
If MS is being truthful about Nintendo being their primary competition this generation, then the best weapon they have against them is labeling the Wii a "kiddie" console and attempting to use insecurity to discourage people from buying it.
I don't think it'll necessarily work, as Wii sales have been phenomenal thus far, but this tactic HAS worked against Nintendo in the past with great success. The tactic will vanish entirely if the Wii offers too many "mature" games for playing the kiddie card to work.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 21, 2007, 06:18:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
If MS is being truthful about Nintendo being their primary competition this generation, then the best weapon they have against them is labeling the Wii a "kiddie" console and attempting to use insecurity to discourage people from buying it.
Didn't they did that already? I heard that they did a flash movie where they killed some Nintendo characters back when the XBOX was first released.
Post by: KDR_11k on January 21, 2007, 07:14:16 PM
Post by: Crimm on January 21, 2007, 07:43:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
It's in production. What do you want? Weekly updates?
I would like that, yes.
Post by: SixthAngel on January 22, 2007, 04:07:21 AM
I think this is going to be an original game. He seems to be on a streak of original games and he might want to make a new game people in Japan will actually buy and remember.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 22, 2007, 04:14:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64 Didn't they did that already? I heard that they did a flash movie where they killed some Nintendo characters back when the XBOX was first released.
Correct.
MS has only 2 exploitable advantages over Nintendo:
1. Graphics
2. Insecurity
Since graphics haven't earned them all that much, they'd be better off trying insecurity.
But I think it might even be too late for that. You can bash something further down if people already don't like it (like the GC with many people), but trying to throw insults at something everyone DOES like can make you look worse by comparison and I think trying to bash the Wii would do that for MS at this point.
But I hope this isn't another Megaman turn-based RPG. In fact, the only Megaman game I'd tolerate is a full rebirth of the original game concept on the Wii, much like what Sonic and the Secret Rings is TRYING to do.
Post by: couchmonkey on January 23, 2007, 10:56:07 AM
This is the whole advantage to Nintendo's strategy: if it's successful, the competition has no good counter-strategy other than to go back to the drawing board. 360 is not a serious alternative to Wii, if you like what Wii is offering.
Anyway, Capcom, awesome news, I hope whatever this is turns out to be good!
Post by: ThePerm on January 23, 2007, 03:49:59 PM
Post by: Galford on January 24, 2007, 12:47:03 AM
I know people who are buying a 360 just to play this.
Do not underestimate this game.
What will Nintendo's answer be?
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 24, 2007, 12:51:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Galford
MS has another weapon it's called Halo 3.
I know people who are buying a 360 just to play this.
Do not underestimate this game.
What will Nintendo's answer be?
Metroid Prime 3
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
And any other second or third party game they have up their sleeve (like Disaster: Day of crisis, Project H.A.M.M.E.R, The Sims Wii, Dragonquest swords and many more).
Post by: Pittbboi on January 24, 2007, 01:44:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64Quote
Originally posted by: Galford
MS has another weapon it's called Halo 3.
I know people who are buying a 360 just to play this.
Do not underestimate this game.
What will Nintendo's answer be?
Metroid Prime 3
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
And any other second or third party game they have up their sleeve (like Disaster: Day of crisis, Project H.A.M.M.E.R, The Sims Wii, Dragonquest swords and many more).
Ummm, none of those games are near the star power of the Halo franchise. Good games, but they mostly only appeal to people who are already fans of Nintendo and already have Wiis or want them (heck, Smash Bros. is almost 100% fan service). Galford has a point, and it's a point that's been made before (I think someone mentioned it in a podcast, too): if there's one thing Nintendo still needs, it's the big name GAME games that get people talking, and not just your fanbase. They sorta have that in WiiSports, but they NEED another trad-game that can generate GTA/Halo/Final Fantasy type hype. Outside of graphics, that's the only thing the competition has on Nintendo (the BIG names that'll get gamers in a frenzy).
Heck, as much as I hate the notion of owning a PS3(there's absolutely nothing I want on it right now), if Final Fantasy XIII and versus XIII don't get ported to the 360 (like I'm secretly hoping), I may actually be tempted to consider putting down $600 to play those games. Nintendo doesn't yet have the kind of game that can do that (in my opinion), as most of their big name games are first party, and almost exclusively appeal to people who already love them. And Nintendo can rely on the non-gamers for so long (I know several people who bought Wiis just to play WiiSports...and nothing else).
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 02:14:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PittbboiQuote
Originally posted by: pap64Quote
Originally posted by: Galford
What will Nintendo's answer be?
Metroid Prime 3
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Ummm, none of those games are near the star power of the Halo franchise. Good games, but they mostly only appeal to people who are already fans of Nintendo and already have Wiis or want them (heck, Smash Bros. is almost 100% fan service). Galford has a point, and it's a point that's been made before (I think someone mentioned it in a podcast, too): if there's one thing Nintendo still needs, it's the big name GAME games that get people talking, and not just your fanbase. They sorta have that in WiiSports, but they NEED another trad-game that can generate GTA/Halo/Final Fantasy type hype. Outside of graphics, that's the only thing the competition has on Nintendo (the BIG names that'll get gamers in a frenzy).
Hmmm... game that appeals outside of its fanbase? Game that moves units worldwide as much as Halo? Games that get people talking, make the system a must-buy, and capture the cultural zeitgeist?
Let me point you in the right direction my friends: Nintendogs.
Yes, yes, I don't expect a Nintendogs Wii because it doesn't make too much sense really.... OR DOES IT?!?!?! (Imagine taking your Nintendog to a friend's through the Wiimote just like a Mii!) But I do personally anticipate Wii Music as the second coming of Wii Sports, and also believe that the next generation of Wii music game has the potential to be huge!
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: KDR_11k on January 24, 2007, 02:28:09 AM
I know people who are buying a 360 just to play this.
Do not underestimate this game.
Halo will recapture their old market but not open up new markets for them. Most people who want a 360 for Halo 3 probably owned Halo 2 already. Pandering to your fans lets you retain them but not acquire new ones, a lesson Nintendo learned the hard way with their ever-decreasing sales numbers. MS needs more than Halo 3, they need to branch out and capture more audiences to make their marketshare grow larger than it was with the XBox. To their luck third parties are making more and more 360 games so they will expand the 360's market for MS.
Heck, as much as I hate the notion of owning a PS3(there's absolutely nothing I want on it), if Final Fantasy XIII and versus XIII don't get ported to the 360 (like I'm secretly hoping), I may actually be tempted to consider putting of $600 to play those games. Nintendo doesn't yet have the kind of game that can do that (in my opinion), as most of their big name games are first party, and almost exclusively appeal to people who already love them.
You're using two standards there. FF13 is a game that will sell PS3s primarily to people who already love Final Fantasy. Nintendo has that kind of game in Zelda. Both MGS and FF only sell systems to pleople who already love those series and had a PS2 last gen. Many people are looking to buy a PS3 because they think it'll be host to all the sequels of the series they liked on the PS2 even though more and more games are migrating away from the system. In the end Sony will only attract those parts of their fanbase whose games haven't left yet.
Post by: Pittbboi on January 24, 2007, 02:44:43 AM
Yes, Nintendogs is THAT game, but I don't know what good having it on the DS is going to do for the Wii, and as far as I know it hasn't been announced for the Wii.
But honestly, would Nintendogs on the Wii be as big a hit as it is on the DS? Granted, I don't own Nintendogs, but I have played it briefly, and it struck me as the kind of game that would be popular in much the same way the Tamogotchi and Giga Pets were years ago. You know, pets on the go. Would Nintendogs be as fun tethered to your living room?
Quote
You're using two standards there. FF13 is a game that will sell PS3s primarily to people who already love Final Fantasy. Nintendo has that kind of game in Zelda.
Not exactly. Granted Final Fantasy has been pretty exclusive to Sony for a while, but Final Fantasy is still a third party product. Square used to make Final Fantasy games for Nintendo, and they still make games for other consoles under the Final Fantasy name. You don't have to be a fan of Sony consoles to like Final Fantasy. How do you think Sony sucked away so many Nintendo fans during the PSX's initial years? Heck, I didn't buy a Playstation 2 until it dropped in price and FFX became a Greatest Hits title. With Nintendo games you have to be a fan of Nintendo consoles because you're not going to get their games anywhere else. And it's been so long that the games are almost removed from mainstream gaming. If you're a Sony or MS fanboy you're really not going to miss Metroid or Mario very much, because there will be plenty of alternatives on your system of choice that'll be just as good. Not so much the case for the die-hard Nintendo fanboy. Up until recently, if you wanted outstanding console RPG gameplay, you had to go to another system. Hopefully that changes (I have high hopes for Dragon Quest and Fire Emblem).
Post by: Jin-X on January 24, 2007, 03:05:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PittbboiQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Ummm, none of those games are near the star power of the Halo franchise. Good games, but they mostly only appeal to people who are already fans of Nintendo and already have Wiis or want them (heck, Smash Bros. is almost 100% fan service).
The same thing can be said about Halo 3. It's a shooter, how does it help it expand its fanbase? Their big game last year was a shooter (Gears). The people that love shooters and Halo already know that their system to get is the 360. But aside from shooters and racers, there isn't that much else on the 360.
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 03:09:12 AM
I'm personally up in the air as to whether Nintendogs would be a good fit for the Wii, but there's no question that the series itself is amazing. If you'd bother to look at its sales figures, it's sold higher than either of the Halo games!
Actually, looking at VGCharts, understandably inexact though it may be (though I'm using shipment numbers which are far more reliable since they have nothing to hide, unlike "sold" numbers), Halo is pegged at shipping 7.91 mil and 6.44 mil worldwide for the first and second game, wheres Nintendogs (in all its versions) is pegged at shipping 11.5 million worldwide.
So in effect, you're asking for the Wii's version of Nintendogs. Which is in fact Wii Sports.
Oh, but we want the NEXT version of Wii Sports right? Let's just call Wii Sports Nintendo's answer to GoW. What will they have come Halo 3? There's the question!
And well, maybe the Halo franchise IS being overrated here because of our hardcore skew. This is actually quite shocking for me because I am personally a BIG Halo defender from both a significance and QUALITY standpoint. But anyways, my personal opinion aside, looking at worldwide shipments, again from VG chart...
Super Smash bros. Melee : 6.10 million
Super Mario Sunshine: 5.56 million
Metroid Prime 2: 1.13 million
UGH! SCREW the Metroid Prime series! That series obviously doesn't belong in the same sentence as Halo saleswise. But both Smash and Mario are "almost as big" as Halo... so they should hold the fort nicely.
But where's Wii Music? Wii Fitness, Wii Sports?
Where's Nintendo's next big flag carrier, where's the breakout hit, where's the killer app, and without a WII prefix in front of it?!?!?
Hmm... the crystal ball is hazy because whereas the PS3 and X360 have tons of vague yet announced titles on the horizon for late 2007 and 2008 (Naughty Dog's next game? Mass Effect?), Nintendo's schedule has the big 3 (Mario, Smash, Metroid) and little else...
That said, let me guess at Nintendo's answer to Halo 3 come this Holiday season, part guesstimate, part wishful thinking.
Animal Crossing. (Wii Animal Crossing?)
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: ShyGuy on January 24, 2007, 03:13:10 AM
Post by: Pittbboi on January 24, 2007, 03:15:02 AM
Quote
Oh, but we want the NEXT version of Wii Sports right? Let's just call Wii Sports Nintendo's answer to GoW. What will they have come Halo 3? There's the question!
And that's my whole point. WiiSports isn't going to be the answer forever.
Quote
I think Super Mario and Smash Bros have the star power of Halo, problem is Microsoft will always pour millions more into marketing than Nintendo.
Not true. Nintendo poured twice the amount of money into marketing the Wii than MS did with the 360, and still reported profits. Nintendo is not some garage game developer. Nintendo is not as big as MS or Sony, but it IS a multi-billion dollar company and they CAN throw money at an endeavour if they want to. Problem is they usually don't want to. Microsoft may be a powerhouse but they can't throw their entire weight into the 360 because they have so many other markets they have to maintain. People act like that 45 billion is purely for the Xbox360.
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 03:18:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PittbboiQuote
Oh, but we want the NEXT version of Wii Sports right? Let's just call Wii Sports Nintendo's answer to GoW. What will they have come Halo 3? There's the question!
And that's my whole point. WiiSports isn't going to be the answer forever.
You mean unlike Nintendogs? (sorry, couldn't resist, Nintendogs has AMAZING LEGS even if it is on DS...)
But anyways, my answer was Animal Crossing.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: zakkiel on January 24, 2007, 03:34:25 AM
QuoteI stopped reading here.
Ummm, none of those games are near the star power of the Halo franchise. Good games, but they mostly only appeal to people who are already fans of Nintendo and already have Wiis or want them (heck, Smash Bros. is almost 100% fan service).
Post by: Pittbboi on January 24, 2007, 03:48:15 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 24, 2007, 04:57:39 AM
No but Sony had the Final Fantasy fans covered before. Sure, it takes an actual game to make them buy a PS3 but don't you think many Nintendo fans wouldn't have bought a Wii as soon as they did if Zelda wasn't available?
And that's my whole point. WiiSports isn't going to be the answer forever.
Yes but there's Wario Ware now (no that's not going to last forever either but we don't know what games will be released a year from now).
Post by: Ian Sane on January 24, 2007, 07:12:30 AM
There's nothing wrong with Nintendo's franchises and they shouldn't stop making them outright (though they could cut back on spin-offs). Those are good games and they still sell well. But they can't be the main attraction anymore because they're too old. There is a whole generation of gamers that don't identify with those franchises the same way the NES/SNES crowd did. That crowd is familiar with what they view as Playstation or Xbox franchises because that's what they grew up with. Those franchises were part of their childhood like Mario was a part of ours. No, Nintendo needs something new for the younger generation. They don't have to sell out or compromise their principals to do it. They just need something new and different for younger gamers to identify with. They did that with Pokemon. The age group that ate up Pokemon didn't play Mario and Zelda "back in the day". They were too young. Pokemon was their's. It's like how I may like The Beatles but their music isn't as personal to me as music that was popular when I was 14. And I'll never "get" The Beatles the same way my parents do.
Though I'm not exactly suggesting Pokemon as the literal template to work from. It's just an example of newer Nintendo franchise taking off. Something with a little more universal appeal (ie: teenagers will like it too) would be ideal.
Post by: zakkiel on January 24, 2007, 07:25:52 AM
QuoteI can't speak for SMS. I was underwhelmed by the game. But I know damn well that SSBM, WW, MP, and RE4 sold systems, just as TP sold Wiis and Final Fantasy games will continue to sell PlayStation iterations. The age of a franchise is not at issue. The reason Halo garnered such exclusive attention was the lack of other worthwhile games for a long time on the Xbox. If Microsoft had more AAA games, the Halo effect would be a lot less pronounced.
Regarding Nintendo combating Halo 3 they can't with any of their current franchises. Why? Because those same franchises were all over the Cube and it didn't help sales. If Super Mario Sunshine didn't sell Gamecube why the hell would Super Mario Galaxy suddenly sell Wiis?
I'm all for new and exciting franchises (and Nintendo needs them right now to fill holes in the line-up), but if you're looking for a Wii Halo equivalent, you aren't going to get it. That's a sign of strength, not weakness.
Post by: JonLeung on January 24, 2007, 07:48:23 AM
Perhaps indicative of franchise power, the final pieces performed by the orchestra were from these games, in order of play:
-Super Mario Bros. montage with SMB music (main, underwater, underground)
-Halo & Halo 2 montage with Halo theme
-Halo 3 teaser with Halo theme and Tommy Tallarico rocking out on a guitar
-Final Fantasy VII - One Winged Angel (Sephiroth theme, no visuals because Square-Enix wouldn't allow them)
If Mario was as big as he once was, I have no doubt it would be last, as they save the best for last.
Was it really necessary for the short Halo 3 teaser, which pretty much had the same music as the piece we just saw?
And then FF VII. It's fine music, I guess, but the game itself is overrated and likely the piece is here to appease the so-called gamers who really just hopped on the gaming bandwagon just because of this game. Nostalgia is key, but it's not my personal nostalgia. (I suppose final boss music that involves the whole orchestra as well as the choir works for a finale, and Bowser's theme I'm not sure would cut it.)
My point if you missed it is, FF and Halo are pretty big. Worthy? That's debateable. But big? If people are cheering them on as much as Mario, or even more, that's pretty big. Whether Nintendo can come up with a game that most people would actually consider a Halo-killer, I don't know.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on January 24, 2007, 08:13:22 AM
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 08:27:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
My point if you missed it is, FF and Halo are pretty big. Worthy? That's debateable. But big? If people are cheering them on as much as Mario, or even more, that's pretty big. Whether Nintendo can come up with a game that most people would actually consider a Halo-killer, I don't know.
You don't "kill" Halo. That's Red Sea thinking. You set up a puppy adoption agency next door, the Blue Ocean way. &>
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ian Sane on January 24, 2007, 09:15:12 AM
No they didn't. Not in any meaningful way. The Cube is the very definition of a flop. Even though Nintendo remained profitable during the time the Cube was completely irrelevent in the game market three years in. Hell after RE4 came out the release list dried up to the point where it was clear that even Nintendo was neglecting it. It is by far the least significant Nintendo console ever aside from the Virtual Boy. Nintendo themselves have even publicly admitted disappointment in how it performed. They have said that the Wii will be a failure if it only sells as much as the Cube. So the games that "sold Cubes" aren't going to sell Wiis in the amount Nintendo wants.
Nintendo loaded the Cube with their franchises and even had a whole marketing campaign based around the familiarity of their franchises and the Cube flopped. Nintendo should just outright avoid doing things similar to how they were done on the Cube.
"I'm all for new and exciting franchises (and Nintendo needs them right now to fill holes in the line-up), but if you're looking for a Wii Halo equivalent, you aren't going to get it. That's a sign of strength, not weakness. "
I don't mean a literal Halo equivalent. I mean something new and different that attracts the same amount of attention that Halo did. Something that younger gamers identify as one the "their games". A game that everyone is playing and everyone knows about. An "it" game. The holes should be filled with the franchises and the new stuff should be getting the big push. When you use the new stuff to fill gaps you get a situation like Pikmin where the games are amazing but the franchise doesn't catch on as well it probably should have. If the new franchises just fill the holes they won't get the big marketing push and thus people won't know about them. Anyone turned off but what they view as nothing but Nintendo rehashing won't notice the new game coming out in the first place. Without the marketing the new franchises don't take off.
Post by: Pittbboi on January 24, 2007, 09:25:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteI can't speak for SMS. I was underwhelmed by the game. But I know damn well that SSBM, WW, MP, and RE4 sold systems, just as TP sold Wiis and Final Fantasy games will continue to sell PlayStation iterations. The age of a franchise is not at issue. The reason Halo garnered such exclusive attention was the lack of other worthwhile games for a long time on the Xbox. If Microsoft had more AAA games, the Halo effect would be a lot less pronounced.
Regarding Nintendo combating Halo 3 they can't with any of their current franchises. Why? Because those same franchises were all over the Cube and it didn't help sales. If Super Mario Sunshine didn't sell Gamecube why the hell would Super Mario Galaxy suddenly sell Wiis?
I'm all for new and exciting franchises (and Nintendo needs them right now to fill holes in the line-up), but if you're looking for a Wii Halo equivalent, you aren't going to get it. That's a sign of strength, not weakness.
I disagree. The proof that these games didn't sell systems (or enough systems to matter) rests in the Cube's lackluster sales. They're all great games that recieved mostly good reviews, but they by and large remained a big deal mostly to Gamecube owners.
And, actually, what you said about Xbox and Halo more accurately applies to the Cube. With Metroid Prime, for example, yes it was a great game, but part of the reason it was such a big deal on the Cube was because if you wanted a stellar FPS, it was just about your only option. If you you owned a PS2 and Xbox, however, you had plenty of--while not as highly rated as MP--good FPSs. So the sting of not playing that game wasn't as bad.
Twilight Princess will sell Wiis to people who are already Nintendo fans and most likely would have gotten a Wii eventually, anyway. So far, I think it's safe to say that WiiSports is the only Wii game out currently that comes close to a true system seller. Though that's quite an achievement in itself.
Post by: zakkiel on January 24, 2007, 10:49:01 AM
You're both using the GC's poor sales (a flop Ian, is the Dreamcast) as the linchpin of the claim that its franchises did not sell systems. There are a lot of problems with this. First, as I recall, it took Microsoft a long damn time to open up an appreciable lead on Nintendo - well after the Blessed Advent of Halo. Second, it is preposterous to suppose that the GC would have sold the same without those games; it would have become a genuine flop, not just a disappointment. Clearly they sell systems. And lastly, you're reasoning as if Halo is the only difference between the Xbox and the GC. Which is especially odd coming from Ian, since he routinely hauls out a laundry list of mistakes he believes doomed the Cube extending far beyond individual titles. If Halo had been on the GC, it would never have really taken off the way it has. The lack of online, the uphill battle against image, Nintendo's staggering inability to generate hype for any non-first-party game, and the descriminating tastes of Nintendo gamers (who tend to recognize Halo as a decent shooter rather than a divine masterpiece) would all have conspired against it.
My point: it's a myth that Nintendo needs to unveil some new masterpiece as an answer to Halo 3, anymore than the PS2 needed an answer to Halo. It definitely does need a strong fps franchise on the Wii, and maybe RS could grow into that, though it wouldn't hurt to have more.
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 10:54:16 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: ShyGuy on January 24, 2007, 11:16:43 AM
On the subject, if Capcom did a Dead rising port to the Wii, I'd check it out.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 24, 2007, 11:56:09 AM
Actually it took a little over a year. The Xbox pulled ahead after Christmas 2002 and the Cube never caught up.
"Second, it is preposterous to suppose that the GC would have sold the same without those games; it would have become a genuine flop, not just a disappointment."
Well yes I suppose if 90% of the Gamecube's best games were not released the Cube would have done a lot worse.
"And lastly, you're reasoning as if Halo is the only difference between the Xbox and the GC. Which is especially odd coming from Ian, since he routinely hauls out a laundry list of mistakes he believes doomed the Cube extending far beyond individual titles."
Well I do believe that the Cube flopped largely because Nintendo seemed to f*ck up pretty much everything. Though I include an overreliance on franchises as part of it. One problem Nintendo has is that they are often accused of rehashing because they release too many franchise games. So Nintendo's response to that was to CONFIRM it by going hog wild on sequels.
I don't think that just the games is the reason the Cube didn't sell BUT I think if they were true system sellers people still would have bought a Cube. There were a lot of problems but the console still worked and was reliable and affordable. People put up with Playstations 1 & 2 even though it was practically a given your console would die within a few years because it had the games they wanted.
Plus franchises in general only sell for so long before they get stale in the eyes of the public. The system sellers of one generation usually don't have the same selling power next gen. Why buy a Cube for Mario? I don't need a Cube for that. But Halo. I NEEDED an Xbox for that. I NEEDED a PS2 for GTA in 3D. There was nothing comparable. System sellers provide an experience that you need the console for (or in the case of Halo's LAN stuff what ignorant people THINK they need the console for). Halo 3 actually won't sell as well as Halo 1 & 2 did BUT it's newer, cooler, and more popular than Metroid Prime (as unfair as that is) so it'll still kick its ass in sales.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 24, 2007, 12:23:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Wait a sec... so... if Halo 3 won't sell systems just like Gears of War isn't really selling systems, (looking at X360 sales data) is there any point in "countering it" at all?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Nope.
Catering only to your fanbase easily brushes aside the outsiders who peeked over your fence in curiosity, just as Nintendo did on GameCube.
Audience and reach of the system's appeal goes flaccid.
And I hate the notion of "killer app". People around here seem to believe that "killer app" also includes being "a excellent game," which I think is very questionable. "Social phenomenon" is more appropriate, since it's the buzz around the product that helps expand its audience. GTA is one, Pokemon is another, Nintendogs next, and Wii Sports is the latest. Effective buzz doesn't necessarily get around because aspects of the game are good, but because people like them (and therefore will shellout the cash for it).
Just cuz people like something doesn't mean it's objectively good/reasonable/valid. But at the very least, a so-called "killer app" hits the sweet spot in people, causing wallets to open.
Post by: Jin-X on January 24, 2007, 12:53:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Wait a sec... so... if Halo 3 won't sell systems just like Gears of War isn't really selling systems, (looking at X360 sales data) is there any point in "countering it" at all?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
My point exactly, people that love shooters already know that the 360 is where they need to go to get their fix. While Halo 3 will spur sales of 360s (duh), it won't be nearly as much as some people seem to think.
On a sidenote: please stop saying Metroid Prime is an FPS or compare it to Halo, it makes my head hurt. As somebody who has beaten Halo 2 in Legendary in single and co-op and beaten Metroid in hard mode, I find any of these comparisons incredibly 'tarded and most come from people that haven't played one of them (most likely Metroid) since the core gameplay of these games is fundamentally different.
Post by: zakkiel on January 24, 2007, 02:04:52 PM
QuoteA system seller is a game that causes people to buy systems. To say that people would have bought fewer systems without a game is exactly equivalent to saying that game sold those systems. Since you acknowledge that without those games fewer systems would have sold, you also acknowledge that those games were system-sellers.
Well yes I suppose if 90% of the Gamecube's best games were not released the Cube would have done a lot worse.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on January 24, 2007, 02:14:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Ummm, none of those games are near the star power of the Halo franchise.
You're saying... That Mario doesn't have the star power of Halo.
...
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 02:46:08 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: utarefsoN on January 24, 2007, 02:56:25 PM
Im a Nintendo fan boy till the death (almost) and i bought damn near every game worth buying on the cube not ONE was a mario game. But i meant to buy Double Dash but havent yet, ill just wait fot the rev version, but you cant really call that a mario game can you?
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 24, 2007, 02:57:50 PM
Though, Halo 2 outsold Halo 1 by over a million copies so the userbase clearly expanded, but that was also later in the Xbox's life.
Also, Mario DOES have more star power than Halo, according to the fact that NSMB currently sits at 8.6 million worldwide while Halo 2 (the highest selling Halo) has 7.9 million worldwide.
Clearly, Mario games can still push the sales, but I think it has to be the right KIND of Mario game in order to do that. Mario 64 was a brand new world, in terms of Mario games, and has sold 11.89 mil worldwide. SMS? Notsomuch, with only 5.56 worldwide.
NSMB was apparently just what people wanted from a Mario game. The only question now is whether or not Mario Galaxy will do for the Wii what Mario 64 did for the N64.
Post by: Adrock on January 24, 2007, 03:21:07 PM
And really, Nintendo doesn't need to combat Halo 3. As backwards as this sounds, they don't need a "Halo killer," just like no one ever needed a "Mario killer." Sonic wasn't a "Mario killer." Sonic was Sonic, a character in a good game (well, back in the Genesis days anyway). Nintendo just needs to make sure Wii has a steady flow of good games. They need to keep people playing and coming back for more.
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 03:31:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
Halo appeals to more people in general. Mario appeal to Nintendo fans primarily.
Do I detect a false dichotomy here?
There are two kinds of people in the world: Nintendo fans and everyone else.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Galford on January 24, 2007, 03:45:12 PM
Mario appeals more to the market Nintendo is catering too. My parents know who Mario is, but they don't have a clue who the Master Chief is.
For the crowd who's first system was a Playstation or XBox just about everyone knows the Master Chief. Much as I hate to say it people who don't know what MGS 4 or FF13 are, know the term "Halo".
I just brought out Halo 3 because the hype is building as we speak and it's casual appeal. People are beginning to get invites for the multiplayer beta. Come this summer we will see trailers in movie theaters. In the fall we will see commercials in primetime on major networks. I know I will be sick of hearing about Halo before it's launched.
What I wish Nintendo would do is pick one AAA game and decide this game will run against Halo. Sent aside $10 million and pimp the hell out of it.
The last time Nintendo did this was with DK64. Remember the stupid trailers in the movie theaters? It worked. DK64 sold over 1 million in 24 hours.
The purpose of my original post was to get a hive mind assessment of how Nintendo is going to handle this coming holiday.
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 03:58:49 PM
Galford, you're just wondering if Nintendo will fight a traditional hype war against Halo 3? Or if they need to at all?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: TerribleOne on January 24, 2007, 04:15:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Galford
Wow I didn't expect to start a fire storm.
Mario appeals more to the market Nintendo is catering too. My parents know who Mario is, but they don't have a clue who the Master Chief is.
For the crowd who's first system was a Playstation or XBox just about everyone knows the Master Chief. Much as I hate to say it people who don't know what MGS 4 or FF13 are, know the term "Halo".
Well as inadvertedly as it was you brought up a good point. Until Ian pointed it out, i never realize what he said: Nintendo needs Generation Now games. Us as nintendo fans hold on to the franchises but it's going to get to the point where it's going to be Mario vs. Pac-man. Nintendo is a business and gaming company which is why it baffles me as why it doesn't attempt at catering to multiple markets. I thought i was never goin to get tired of anime... but as i get older i care less for it. The way i could care less about mario.
We all root for Ninty but i believe it's true: we need sumthin new to universally hold on to just like people worship master chief, MGS, Gears of War, or watever it takes.
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 04:59:17 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: TerribleOne on January 24, 2007, 05:28:34 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on January 24, 2007, 05:49:59 PM
"I need guns and sex and violence to really, yknow, connect with me and my situation up in here. Mario ain't me. That dude from GTA is me, cause I'm mature, yo!"
On the subject, I really didn't care for the Lost Planet demo, I hope Capcom's upcoming Wii game is better.
Post by: Pittbboi on January 24, 2007, 06:13:00 PM
TerribleOne isn't saying Nintendo needs to come out with a "mature" game. What TerribleOne and Ian seem to be saying is that it's about time Nintendo come up with something truly new, and back it like they would a franchise. I'm personally tired of seeing Nintendo try these new concepts and then slapping Mario/Metroid/Zelda on them. It's about time Nintendo created a new Mario. A big, major game that's a totally new idea but not a non-game like Nintendogs and WiiSports. The Cube proved it: The Nintendo franchises only appeal to the people who already know them. They are not bringing in anyone new, and over time they're growing increasingly stale (Hell, Mario's popularity peaked YEARS ago).
It's time Nintendo put their franchises on the back burner and hit us with something new. They've claimed the non-gamer with Nintendogs and WiiSports; now I think it's time Nintendo proved that it's still relevant to the today gamer and release a totally new, "traditional" game that doesn't go anywhere near Nintendo mascots. Prove that they can create a new face of gaming like they did years ago with ease. I think the last time Nintendo seriously gave that a try was with Pikmin, but as Ian said, the marketing of that game was so terrible there was no way it would take off.
Post by: ShyGuy on January 24, 2007, 06:39:16 PM
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 06:41:53 PM
But I think I understand you guys now. Nintendo's made a lot of new innovations and IPs recently actually, but almost all in the non-game category: Wii Sports, Nintendogs, Animal Crossing... They've had established franchise games like NSMB and Zelda prove successful for traditional gamers as well, but they haven't really set out to create a new traditional game IP in recent years and really get excited about it...
It would be interesting to see what that would look like if it happened. Of course, it doesn't NEED to happen, not with Nintendo sales strong with its bevy of new non-traditional IPs, and Nintendo can of course get by with its stable of franchise characters and usually excellent games... but still, despite the lack of any true necessity, one wonders if there isn't an itch that needs to be scratched by a brand new traditional-style Nintendo gaming effort done in earnest abandon instead of in half-steps.
Maybe EAD can't be in three places at once? Already put to work by Miyamoto to restore the glory of slightly tarnished franchises and also put to the task of developing the next Wii insert-theme-here hits, the next Brain Training, Nintendogs, and the next Animal Crossing... EAD may simply be too caught up getting things done right (as compared to the GC era) instead of getting things done exciting.
Nintendo's second parties have shown competent stuff, but nary a spark of true breakout potential among 'em. Maybe a third-party could fill the gap, and maybe that's what Nintendo's best hope will be?
But until that little mystery is satisfied, we're gonna have to be content with always excellent franchise titles and shockingly untraditional yet fun new non-game IPs.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: TerribleOne on January 24, 2007, 06:43:18 PM
but the fact is you can't sit there and act like Nintendo is coming up with new franchises. As bitter as you may be about the content of some games, they're essentially the new "Metroids", "Marios" or "Zeldas". At least these companies are trying. Of course it also isnt fair to Nintendo due to their shaky and renewed relationships with Third Parties but at least they should lead the way instead of constantly trying to modernize OUR franchises.
The perfect indication of all this is seen in the exitement of announcements of Wii-exclusive games. People on this forum and Nintendo fans all around are hyped about Sadness, Day of Disaster, and the Capcom game... and you know close to NOTHING about them but it's NEW and YOU WANT IT.
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 06:46:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Excite Truck, Project Hammer, and Disaster: Day of Crisis are made 'specially for you.
All half steps. None of them really likely to break the mold to establish names for themselves. Destined to be quality games relegated to the dusty shelves of history, remembered alongside the likes of Baiten Kaitos and P.N.03.
I think... what some gamers really want to see from Nintendo is a Beyond Good & Evil.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Pittbboi on January 24, 2007, 06:53:30 PM
Quote
Excite Truck, Project Hammer, and Disaster: Day of Crisis are made 'specially for you.
While I'm kinda excited for Project Hammer, and Disaster: Day of Crisis looks like it'll be a good game though it doesn't appeal to my personal tastes, these game aren't out yet. The only one that is is Excite Truck, and it just serves to illustrate my point. A lackluster, unoriginal racer that's too short with crap for multi-player.....way to throw us a bone, Nintendo.
Quote
All half steps. None of them really likely to break the mold to establish names for themselves. Destined to be quality games relegated to the dusty shelves of history, remembered alongside the likes of Baiten Kaitos and P.N.03.
QFT
Post by: denjet78 on January 24, 2007, 07:01:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Excite Truck, Project Hammer, and Disaster: Day of Crisis are made 'specially for you.
All half steps. None of them really likely to break the mold to establish names for themselves. Destined to be quality games relegated to the dusty shelves of history, remembered alongside the likes of Baiten Kaitos and P.N.03.
I think... what some gamers really want to see from Nintendo is a Beyond Good & Evil.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Um... don't you mean a BG&E done right? The game mostly felt like a tech demo to me. It didn't feel like a finished game.
Anyway, whenever people start to talk about how Nintendo needs to do this or Nintendo needs to do that, it invariably ends up turning into a "Nintendo needs to be ME-TOO!" in order to compete with Sony and MS. I think they've already proven that they don't need to go anywhere near Sony or MS to retake gaming.
I'm sorry but everyone here seems to think that the only way for Nintendo to become worthwhile again is to step backwards and fight a traditional games battle. Well, traditional games are a dying breed. I don't think we're going to see Nintendo try and create a new traditional franchise ever again. We may get crossover games with elements of both a traditional and new non-game but I don't see any new major traditional games coming from them. And to be honest, that's more than fine with me.
Post by: Smoke39 on January 24, 2007, 07:03:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
The only one that is is Excite Truck, and it just serves to illustrate my point. A lackluster, unoriginal racer that's too short with crap for multi-player.....
Excite Truck is full of awesome. O:<
Post by: TerribleOne on January 24, 2007, 07:10:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Excite Truck, Project Hammer, and Disaster: Day of Crisis are made 'specially for you.
All half steps. None of them really likely to break the mold to establish names for themselves. Destined to be quality games relegated to the dusty shelves of history, remembered alongside the likes of Baiten Kaitos and P.N.03.
Now we're on the same page. That's exactly what i meant. We need Nintendo Game: 1, 2, 3 and Special Edition in the next 10 years that actually have a strong Million+ fanbase. And its not a coincidence those games sell systems too. I'm not saying Nintendo needs to step away from the "Blue Ocean" strategy, but it would be nice to take the manhours to produce Mario Party 14 into the production of a risky new game to capture the minds of old and new fans.
Post by: ShyGuy on January 24, 2007, 07:15:51 PM
Edit: We seem to have an army of Mini-Ians. We can list dozens of games that meet the "criteria", but if they don't tickle their fancy, they simply don't count.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 24, 2007, 09:04:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TerribleOneQuote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Excite Truck, Project Hammer, and Disaster: Day of Crisis are made 'specially for you.
All half steps. None of them really likely to break the mold to establish names for themselves. Destined to be quality games relegated to the dusty shelves of history, remembered alongside the likes of Baiten Kaitos and P.N.03.
That is too rosy of a picture. Don't confuse the success of the NES with the *kind* of success Nintendo is trying to nurture right now. The competition was different back then, the marketing was different, and I wouldn't assume the old games were special with regards to risk since the WHOLE MARKET was still young and pretty much driven by risk (or simply differentiation and quality), and the paying audience wasn't influenced nor divided like it is today.
You're assuming Nintendo's effort in making such a risky great franchise actually pays off, that the game is excellent, that the game generates its own buzz, and that Nintendo gives it an effective initial marketing push. That's a lot to ask for considering Nintendo hasn't had all those good pieces rightfully fall into place since Ocarina of Time was released. Oh wait, you didn't say it had to be excellent (then i must doom it to failure, on the other hand we have Pokemon). Look at their history of "major" titles that had to compete in last gen's marketing landscape. Mario Sunshine? Failed game, failed to hold the market's attention. Pikmin, Metroid Prime? Good "new" games, marketting efforts failed to hold the market's attention. Twilight Princess? Good game, but it's getting a boost by the market's previous dissatisfaction (take a guess why) and therefore not succeeding purely by its own merit. And 3rd parties, well, PoP: Sands of Time? Despite critical success and noticeable marketing, it flopped; series had to lose some integrity before garnering more consumer attention. BG&E? Critical success, no significant marketing, all around flop. The only major traditional Nintendo console game to succeed in these regards lately would be SSBM, it didn't even have an in-yo-face marketing campaign to begin with yet still sold along side GCN units long after the price drops. We won't really see what games are the real successes until they're actually released. There's several obstacles like, what does the market really want? Can you MAKE the market want what you want them to want? Some games the market didn't care for, others Nintendo failed to make the market want.
Sure, Nintendo can take more risks. But it's Nintendo's job to court the market, and it's the market's job to buy into it. Ideas are good, but these days they're not enough. At the moment, the failures of the competition seem to be just as important as a good product.
Post by: Adrock on January 24, 2007, 09:23:01 PM
Quote
denjet78 wrote:
Well, traditional games are a dying breed.
Define "traditional games."
Nintendo doesn't necessarily need to create new IPs to become relevant again in the console space. They need great exclusives, significantly more than they have the past 2 generations. For the most part, PS3 and 360 get or are getting the most notable ones: old and new franchises. Currently, only Ubisoft with Red Steel has offered Nintendo a Wii exclusive built from the ground up on the platform.
As much as I'd love to see Nintendo create something new (like during the SNES days with Star Fox and F-Zero), I see attaining stronger 3rd party support as a more important issue. So far, Wii has gotten scraps and ports from developers with a few exclusives announced and little to no concrete info available (case in point, this very thread). Getting a strong franchise old or new (but not a gaiden or spinoff) from a 3rd party developer would probably help Nintendo more. It encourages other developers to follow suit since the general consensus is that owners of Nintendo consoles only buy Nintendo games. We all know that's not true. Gamers love good games. Even the most devoted Nintendo fan would buy a 3rd party game if it didn't suck ass.
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 09:49:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
As much as I'd love to see Nintendo create something new (like during the SNES days with Star Fox and F-Zero), I see attaining stronger 3rd party support as a more important issue. So far, Wii has gotten scraps and ports from developers with a few exclusives announced and little to no concrete info available (case in point, this very thread). Getting a strong franchise old or new (but not a gaiden or spinoff) from a 3rd party developer would probably help Nintendo more. It encourages other developers to follow suit since the general consensus is that owners of Nintendo consoles only buy Nintendo games. We all know that's not true. Gamers love good games. Even the most devoted Nintendo fan would buy a 3rd party game if it didn't suck ass.
Is this the "we need more third party support but we don't know how to get it" speech?
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
BG&E? Critical success, no significant marketing, all around flop.
This is why I used BG&E as an example of what gamers wanted from Nintendo. Not the marketting part, but the critical success -> flop part. I could just as well have also used Viewtiful Joe as an example... these types of games are very risky, and probably too risky for Nintendo to divert their attention too.
Besides, like I said before, EAD is busy tackling two major pushes: the non-game push and the franchise done-right push. They've probably got a lot on their hands already.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: KDR_11k on January 24, 2007, 10:48:20 PM
Do you think the Cube would have sold just as well without those games?
Halo sells systems but even with all their games Microsoft only managed to get a draw with your very definition of a flop. Halo is no bigger of a console seller than Nintendo games. They pander to the same niche they had the last time minus the people that got tired of it. If MS's strategy was only Halo 3 they'd lose hands down.
So the games that "sold Cubes" aren't going to sell Wiis in the amount Nintendo wants.
No but if you use those to bring the Wii up to GC sales and then use other games to leap over the bar you make it easier to get over the bar than if you tried to leap from zero with those new games.
I don't mean a literal Halo equivalent. I mean something new and different that attracts the same amount of attention that Halo did. Something that younger gamers identify as one the "their games". A game that everyone is playing and everyone knows about. An "it" game.
Halo was so dear to many because it was the only title most XBox owners agreed upon as good. If you had an XBox you had Halo or you had wasted your money. Halo wouldn't have been nearly as successful on the PS2. To archieve such a huge market penetration you need a bundled game or a diamond in a pile of crap. Unless Ninendo deliberately turns their franchise games into crap they aren't going to create the vast contrast that made Halo so bright in most people's eyes.
Post by: Galford on January 25, 2007, 01:17:55 AM
Nintendo has some momentum right now. Right now their "Blue Ocean" strategy is working. MS is not sitting by and letting this slide. Remember Bill Gate's comment about Nintendo being their primary target? To keep that momentum going I think needs decide which game is going to be the big thing this holiday and run with it.
Personally I believe that game to be Mario Galaxy. Mario has appeal to the crowd that Nintendo is catering too and has some cache amoung older hardcore gamers. I'm just worried this Christmas will be a repeat of 2004 when MP2 came out. There's nothing more frustrating then watching a 9 year old playing MP2 on a kiosk and asking if this is the new Halo.
Isn't Inafune working on DMC4 right now?
Post by: KDR_11k on January 25, 2007, 02:35:50 AM
Post by: ryancoke on January 25, 2007, 03:55:27 AM
Post by: TerribleOne on January 25, 2007, 04:21:32 AM
Remember: Nintendo wants us to change the way we play, not what we play as some of you are pointing out. We got Wii boxing vs Fight Night. They both have different way of playing and use the HARDWARE to their advantage, which is what Nintendo doesnt directly want to compete with MS and Sony against. With that being said, the game is still.... boxing. Its outlandish to think that Nintendo has given up on traditional gaming(I'm looking at YOU million seller NSMB)
It's Nintendo's choice to make it "traditional" or "innovative" but we need something new here. Like seriously, if Nintendo doesn't start now, the 15 yr olds of 2015 are going to go elsewhere for their fan fanboyism.
Capcom is known to have good franchises. At least we can hope they can create something that wont be quickly forgotten.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 25, 2007, 05:20:18 AM
The new stuff doesn't have to come from EAD. DKC was huge on the SNES and that wasn't EAD. Now that was an old franchise but it was re-invented for a new generation. They could do something like that, provided they don't overdue it like Bomberman on the Xbox.
One thing I thought of was my own perception of games during the NES era. I never played games like Frogger or Pac-Man in their prime. Those have always been classic old games to me. They're fun and I like them but I only became really familiar with them as a I got older and more mature and made an effort to try out some of the games before my time. But I have no connection to those games. I don't identify with Frogger or Pac-Man. My memories with them are based on when I first played them but they're not part of my youth or anything like that. When I was a kid the NES was the first introduction to gaming for myself and most of my age group. At the time we loved Mario and Mega Man. Those were our gaming icons. We regarded Pac-Man as old. It was this dinosaur game from before our time and not worth our attention. That's not a good attitude to have but kids and teens think that way.
To a younger gamer the older franchises are like that. They're relics so there is less of a NEED to play those games. Now if Nintendo can turn Day of Disaster into a mega-hit then that's great. That's what they should try to do. But right now I see that the "big guns" that are getting hyped the most are the old franchises. That's fine for someone my age but it isn't going to sell as well with the Playstation or Xbox era gamers.
Post by: KDR_11k on January 25, 2007, 06:15:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ryancoke
If capcom is working on a megaman game, I would love to see one on the lines of Megaman Legends and the Misadventures of Tronn Bonne for PS1. Make the game an action rpg in a 3rd person view with wiimote aiming. That would rule.
I think that wouldn't really be a Megaman game, it's just Zelda in a futuristic setting (and hey, flooded world!). While I do think Rockman Dash is enjoyable I don't really count it as a Megaman game, mostly because they completely changed Megaman's history.
Post by: Adrock on January 25, 2007, 06:38:59 AM
Quote
Kairon wrote:
Is this the "we need more third party support but we don't know how to get it" speech?
No, it isn't. There are a lot of way Nintendo could get more 3rd party support. They already did the hardest thing which was to find a way to separate themselves from the competition and make people care about them again. The controller has instantly made Nintendo a significant player. Right now, it's a matter of "Where do they go from here?"
For the past 2 generations, if there was a bad choice to be made, Nintendo made it. More specifically, they stopped listening to everyone or maybe they never did. For example, developers said, "The licenceing fees are too high and we don't want to pay for expensive cartridges." Nintendo said, "Deal with it." Besides Nintendo f-ing up, Sony basically did everything Nintendo wasn't.
With 360, developers asked Microsoft for more RAM and they put more RAM in. Granted, it cost them billions of dollars, but everyone's happy. Nintendo doesn't need to go to such extreme lengths. Flaunting the wallet is something only Microsoft can do and get away with. Nintendo has gotten suckered into a bunch of ass deals like The Twin Snakes. They paid for and used one of their own teams to develop a port of a 6 year old game. It's not about simply paying for exlcusives or paying so a game isn't exclusive to another console, it starts with talking with developers and working with them. Nintendo could ask Square Enix, "We want a new Chrono game. What do we need to do?" and you start from there.
When it comes to building the sucessor to Wii, Nintendo should ask developers what they would like to see. They can't appease everyone but they can at least make compromises and show that their imput matters. If developers want more buttons on the controller, Nintendo should seriously consider it. After all, it's not the buttons that make the controller more user-friendly. Nintendo really has to get over the "our way is the only way" mindset. I've noticed improvements, but some things continue to raise question marks. Friend codes on Wii? What the hell?
Post by: Kairon on January 25, 2007, 08:17:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: AdrockQuote
Kairon wrote:
Is this the "we need more third party support but we don't know how to get it" speech?
No, it isn't. There are a lot of way Nintendo could get more 3rd party support. They already did the hardest thing which was to find a way to separate themselves from the competition and make people care about them again. The controller has instantly made Nintendo a significant player. Right now, it's a matter of "Where do they go from here?"
...
When it comes to building the sucessor to Wii, Nintendo should ask developers what they would like to see. They can't appease everyone but they can at least make compromises and show that their imput matters. If developers want more buttons on the controller, Nintendo should seriously consider it. After all, it's not the buttons that make the controller more user-friendly. Nintendo really has to get over the "our way is the only way" mindset. I've noticed improvements, but some things continue to raise question marks. Friend codes on Wii? What the hell?
I understand what you're saying and agree with you. But I think it'll be a real tightrope for Nintendo to walk concerning designing the Wii's successor, Nintendo's always designed the controller with an exact image from Miyamoto and what their internal teams envision in terms of software. But I also believe that trying to accomodate third party needs is important. Maybe instead of directly letting third party interests conflict with and spoil the integrity of their design process, they should instead ask third parties what they want extremely early in the design process, then set those third party requests as secondary objectives for the controller and other hardware: Nintendo's vision will still remain the most important thing in hardware design as it should be, but they'll know from the beginning the requests of third parties so they can try to implement as much of that if they can fit it in with their designs. The design process would be just as internal and secretive as ever and third parties wouldn't have any say, but Nintendo would have already learned from third parties possible secondary goals to pursue at the very beginning.
Ah, but what can Nintendo do now?
Excuse me while I indulge my inner fanboi rage... MAKE FRIENDS WITH INDEPENDENT DEVELOPERS! WHAT YOU NEED NINTENDO IS NOT NEW IPS, BUT THE FRESH, NEW UP AND COMING DEVELOPERS WITH THE VISION TO MAKE THOSE GAMES ON A SHOESTRING BUDGET!
*ahem* sorry...
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: zakkiel on January 25, 2007, 08:36:06 AM
QuoteIf Nintendo were really what Microsoft sees as its biggest threat, it would never admit as much. You don't ever boost the image of your chief opposition like that. The comment proved to me that they're still primarily focused on Sony. That will probably change, and quickly.
Remember Bill Gate's comment about Nintendo being their primary target?
Post by: wandering on January 25, 2007, 09:07:22 AM
Quote
I don't mean a literal Halo equivalent. I mean something new and different that attracts the same amount of attention that Halo did. Something that younger gamers identify as one the "their games". A game that everyone is playing and everyone knows about. An "it" game.
I think the Wii could very well see such an "it" game. And it'll be thanks to the motion controller. It makes things happen. Someone, somewhere will come up with an idea for a multiplayer deathmatch type game that makes heavy use of motion control. It will be developed as a side project in a studio no one's ever heard of, and be completely ignored when it's shown off at E3. And then it'll be released and, to everyone's surprise, take the world by storm. Teenagers will play it with their friends non-stop for the next five years.
Post by: IceCold on January 25, 2007, 09:09:41 AM
