Post by: capamerica on December 19, 2006, 04:30:03 PM
I might do some more of these later on.
What games do other people really want to see show up? (Lets not mention the sure fire ones like Super Mario 3 or Zelda: A Link to the Past)
Post by: IceCold on December 19, 2006, 04:33:20 PM
Post by: capamerica on December 19, 2006, 04:40:53 PM
Their in no point in wasting the internal space with games, especially when its so little space as is.
People have already found a way to pull the VC games off of the Wii so limiting us to just the internal space for security is now pointless.
Also am I the only one who hates the idea that if we run out of space on the Wii we will need to delete our VC games to make room for more? I know Nintendo keeps track of the games we buy, but I would much rather not have to re-download them when I want to play them.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 19, 2006, 04:57:59 PM
And since you brought up the Gameboy, here are the GB games I want to see:
- Super Mario Land
- Super Mario Land 2
- Wario lands 1, 2 and 3
- Kid Icarus GB
- Tetris GB
- Pokemon Red and Blue
But my question is, can the VC be updated to include new consoles? Maybe a firmware upgrade can do it...
Post by: capamerica on December 19, 2006, 05:04:20 PM
from what people have been able to find out by trying to hack the games, it seems that each game contains the ROM and the Emulator, so there isn't any on board emulators on the Wii.
Post by: Zach on December 19, 2006, 05:16:23 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on December 19, 2006, 06:13:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
from what people have been able to find out by trying to hack the games, it seems that each game contains the ROM and the Emulator, so there isn't any on board emulators on the Wii.
That sounds... wasteful...
Post by: Dirk Temporo on December 19, 2006, 07:31:02 PM
Post by: capamerica on December 20, 2006, 12:19:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
from what people have been able to find out by trying to hack the games, it seems that each game contains the ROM and the Emulator, so there isn't any on board emulators on the Wii.
That sounds... wasteful...
Ya it does, But it does prevent hacker from use Nintendo's emulators to run pirated ROMs.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on December 20, 2006, 12:54:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
As I mentioned in the other thread, Cap, I really want to see all the Adventure Island games on the VC (all the NES games as well as the SNES games).
Japan's already got the TG-16 version of Adventure Island on their VC, so that'll probably see the light of day elsewhere soon-ish!
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on December 20, 2006, 01:20:42 AM
As far as games whose systems are not currently announced, I'd love to see the Oracle Zelda games for GBC, and definately some King of Fighters games.
Also, speaking of Arcade Fighters, I wonder if we'll see an "NES Advantage" arcade stick sometime in the near future.
Also, isn't there already a thread for this?
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 20, 2006, 01:29:12 AM
Post by: JonLeung on December 20, 2006, 01:53:12 AM
It's sad that I had to use MAME to become a huge fan of SNK's games (and other Neo-Geo games). All I knew about the Neo-Geo until a few years ago was that it was ridiculously expensive, not that popular, and tried to have equal arcade and home console experiences.
But when you play some of the games, as a retrogamer, you can see past the unpopularity of it and you really enjoy the fact that they are new (or recent) games still in 2D. You look at King Of Fighters 2006 and it's crap. Give me King Of Fighters '98 any day. Unfortunately not many people even know of the Neo-Geo, and those that would likely would not have paid $300 per game for the actual hardware.
The Neo-Geo is more than just Bust-A-Move, Metal Slug, and King Of Fighters. Unfortunately with their many ports and compilations (most recently Metal Slug Anthology for the Wii), it may be a while before they show up on the VC. However, if the VC proves to be THE place for retrogamers (which it could very well be, at least fully legally), it would be a perfect fit for some of the lost gems on the Neo-Geo. Shock Troopers: 2nd Squad...yeah!
Post by: Ceric on December 20, 2006, 01:53:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: capamericaQuote
Originally posted by: Smoke39Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
from what people have been able to find out by trying to hack the games, it seems that each game contains the ROM and the Emulator, so there isn't any on board emulators on the Wii.
That sounds... wasteful...
Ya it does, But it does prevent hacker from use Nintendo's emulators to run pirated ROMs.
It would also allow a developer in theory to if they want to go ahead and make some improvements on the original rom. Like up the clock a little to speed up framerates.
Post by: capamerica on December 20, 2006, 02:14:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: DrewMG
While those games would be awesome, can you imagine the download times for FF7?
Well XboxLive has some demos that clock in about 1.5GB and they take about 30-45min for me to download. So I would think if FF7 showed up it would be about the same.
Post by: ryancoke on December 20, 2006, 02:37:18 AM
Post by: JonLeung on December 20, 2006, 02:47:37 AM
It's been said - and I don't have much reason to doubt this - that Final Fantasy VII's game data is essentially the same on all three discs, with the biggest and possibly only difference being the FMVs which take a lot of space.
When I borrowed a PSX to play FF VII, I confirmed this with a particular trick - during game play, at some idle point where the disc isn't being loaded, like when you're standing around, you can safely swap discs. You'll be able to play the game normally even when another FF VII disc is in there, but when you hit a point where an FMV cutscene would play, you'd instead see a different scene.
Maybe it still would be about a GB, but I doubt all three discs are full up to the max to be approaching two.
Through some optimizations and compressions and whatnot, it's been speculated that FF VII could indeed fit on other formats such as a single DS card. But for downloading, if it takes a minute to download 200 kB, it will still take a long time to download FF VII, whether it's one CD or three, whether it's several MBs or a GB or two. If it could download in the background while you do other stuff, then it would be okay. And directly to an SD card would be nice.
Post by: ryancoke on December 20, 2006, 02:53:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
They aren't accurate. :P At least about the 2 GB mark.
It's been said - and I don't have much reason to doubt this - that Final Fantasy VII's game data is essentially the same on all three discs, with the biggest and possibly only difference being the FMVs which take a lot of space.
Dude, you're right. I remember actually trying the disc swap thing back in the day. I was confused with the PC version of FF7 which if memory serves was on 4 CDs and took up about 2Gb on the HD. I could be a little off on the actual size but it was über-huge for it's time.
Post by: xanrastafari on December 20, 2006, 03:12:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: CericQuote
Originally posted by: capamericaQuote
Originally posted by: Smoke39Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
from what people have been able to find out by trying to hack the games, it seems that each game contains the ROM and the Emulator, so there isn't any on board emulators on the Wii.
That sounds... wasteful...
Ya it does, But it does prevent hacker from use Nintendo's emulators to run pirated ROMs.
It would also allow a developer in theory to if they want to go ahead and make some improvements on the original rom. Like up the clock a little to speed up framerates.
Also - making a universal emulator that runs every game PERFECTLY - next to impossible. This is an easy way to tweak individual emus so that they run the individual game without any glitches whatsoever.
Damn I used to spend too much time reading about emulation.
Post by: JonLeung on December 20, 2006, 03:15:27 AM
The Wii needs to one day use that "Internet2" system or whatever it's called that's capable of downloading gigabytes (or at least hundreds of megabytes) per second. Though if it was made available for the Wii it would be for available for PCs too and mass DVD piracy will be even more rampant since it won't take like a day to get a movie. o_0
EDIT: Sorry, the Wikipedia article says the "Internet2" is a consortium, not a network. The thing I'm referring to is the "Abilene Network", capable of delivering 2.5 gigabits (not gigabytes) per second in 1999 and apparently 10 gigabits per second in 2003. By the end of 2006, the goal is 100 megabit connectivity at every node...doesn't that mean, like, 12.5 MB at the minimum? Even that will make a 4.5 GB DVD take only just 6 minutes and 8.64 seconds to download. A CD-ROM is peanuts at that speed, only 56 seconds. If a future console can download full last-generation games, that Abilene thing better be made public for more than educational purposes soon!
How long does it take the PS3 to download PSX games for the PSP? Is it unbearably long?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 20, 2006, 05:09:41 AM
I also like how Final Fantasy VII is listed under "Misc".
I think the current method Nintendo is using isn't practical for CD games. To make that feasible we need more freedom to backup our games. If you have to delete games and redownload them in order to make room then it just isn't going to work.
And although Final Fantasy VII is really just three discs for the FMVs I doubt Square would go to the trouble to recode the game to take up less space. It's probably much easier to just throw all three discs on and make it so the game already knows to "switch" discs.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 20, 2006, 05:38:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I like how of all the SNES games to ask for the guy wants POWER RANGERS.
I also like how Final Fantasy VII is listed under "Misc".
I think the current method Nintendo is using isn't practical for CD games. To make that feasible we need more freedom to backup our games. If you have to delete games and redownload them in order to make room then it just isn't going to work.
And although Final Fantasy VII is really just three discs for the FMVs I doubt Square would go to the trouble to recode the game to take up less space. It's probably much easier to just throw all three discs on and make it so the game already knows to "switch" discs.
Cap's a BIG Power Rangers fan, and ain't afraid to admit it. He follows all the seasons religiously and introduce me to the rest of the series after I stopped at Zeo.
And like Cap said, there is a higher chance of FFVII appearing as a DS remake than a VC game. If you think about it, it makes sense. So far, we have seen all the classic FF games on the Nintendo handhelds, from 1 to 6. It is obvious that the next step is either remake FFVII or put it on VC.
Post by: JonLeung on December 20, 2006, 06:48:11 AM
I think the PC version of Where In Time Is Carmen Sandiego? > NES version.
Post by: UERD on December 20, 2006, 07:04:36 AM
It seems like all the FF stuff that's appearing as remakes, though, is stuff that was on non-Sony properties originally. It seems as if most of the post-6 numbered-FF stuff is currently being reserved for Sony properties- the crappy FF7 spin-offs, for example.
It'll never happen, but if Nintendo put Cloud Strife or Sephiroth in SSB:B, they'd crush Sony once and for all...just think about it! All the FF7 fanboys would be forced to get a Wii and SSB:B, at which point they would be exposed to the superiority of Nintendo and forced to forswear their misguided allegiances! Hahaha! Okay, enough random ranting...
Post by: Louieturkey on December 20, 2006, 07:22:12 AM
Post by: The Omen on December 20, 2006, 07:31:52 AM
Quote
Other games I want (other than the obvious ones) are Zombies ate my neighbors *BWAH HA HA HA!* and Lost Vikings. Both of these were great two player SNES games that I had a great time playing with friends, ah, fond childhood memories.
Great games. Two of my favorites, actually. I think they'll come to the VC eventually.
Post by: UERD on December 20, 2006, 08:27:11 AM
"The N64 version is notable due to the compression techniques that the developers were forced to use in order to fit 2 CD-ROMs worth of data (including voice acting and FMV) into a single cartridge."
So, I guess it's most likely possible.
Post by: IceCold on December 20, 2006, 08:58:10 AM
QuoteIf I ever read that any FF7 character is coming to Smash Bros, I will throw up all over my keyboard..
It'll never happen, but if Nintendo put Cloud Strife or Sephiroth in SSB:B, they'd crush Sony once and for all...just think about it! All the FF7 fanboys would be forced to get a Wii and SSB:B, at which point they would be exposed to the superiority of Nintendo and forced to forswear their misguided allegiances!
Post by: JonLeung on December 20, 2006, 09:05:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteIf I ever read that any FF7 character is coming to Smash Bros, I will throw up all over my keyboard..
It'll never happen, but if Nintendo put Cloud Strife or Sephiroth in SSB:B, they'd crush Sony once and for all...just think about it! All the FF7 fanboys would be forced to get a Wii and SSB:B, at which point they would be exposed to the superiority of Nintendo and forced to forswear their misguided allegiances!
FF VII is clearly the most overrated game out there, but Tifa is still hot. I'll admit it.
Don't worry about it, it's unlikely. If it does happen, it'd be Cloud, and then I'll enjoy beating on him with Link.
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 20, 2006, 09:15:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold If I ever read that any FF7 character is coming to Smash Bros, I will throw up all over my keyboard..
I'm torn on this, as I do agree with what you're saying, but I also agree that this would sell another 5,000,000 copies of SSBB.
I'd prefer to see Mog the Moogle or Edgar Verona, both from FF6.
Post by: UERD on December 20, 2006, 09:26:36 AM
Quote
but I also agree that this would sell another 5,000,000 copies of SSBB.
My point exactly.
Quote
If I ever read that any FF7 character is coming to Smash Bros, I will throw up all over my keyboard..
I agree, but I still think Nintendo could do a lot worse.
Anyways, someone mentioned the old Pokemon games...does anyone think it's likely that Nintendo will release GBC-vintage titles on VC? I'm pretty sure they aren't sold anymore, and there could be some interesting choices.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 20, 2006, 10:24:41 AM
And about the FFVII character comment as I mentioned in the other threads I think that with the megaton announcement of DQ IX on the DS we could see a DQ character or item in the game.
Post by: capamerica on December 20, 2006, 11:05:43 AM
I agree with the statement "If I ever read that any FF7 character is coming to Smash Bros, I will throw up all over my keyboard."
Final Fantasy VII is one of my least favorite Final Fantasy games (I raked it 11th in the FF series), its a extreamly over rated game, BUT it is very popular so having it will only do great things for Nintendo. SB is right if Cloud showed up in SSB:B it would sell a TON more copies, and even a port of it would sell really well.
And just think of it like this, If Final Fantasy VII (and other PSOne Final Fantasy games) were to show up on the Wii or DS that would be one less thing for Sony. And its hard to find the old games any more so a fresh version on the DS or VC would be a hit among people who have never played it.
Oh and Yes I want Power Rangers on the VC, the SNES games were great I really liked them, its to bad they never created a decent Power Rangers game since then. There are so many ways they could make a GREAT Power Rangers game, but it just seems like no one cares about that license any more since the show stopped being Might Morphin. I could go on about how so many of the series would have made great games, but I won't.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 20, 2006, 12:06:01 PM
Seriously, SB is guilty of bringing the word back. And it is used as a joke. So why the hate?
Post by: capamerica on December 21, 2006, 09:13:50 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 21, 2006, 09:16:36 AM
And Starcraft Wii would ensure the console's success in Korea alone!
Post by: Ian Sane on December 21, 2006, 09:47:14 AM
Post by: UERD on December 21, 2006, 09:50:58 AM
Post by: ryancoke on December 21, 2006, 10:22:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeungQuote
FF VII is clearly the most overrated game out there, but Tifa is still hot. I'll admit it.
Don't worry about it, it's unlikely. If it does happen, it'd be Cloud, and then I'll enjoy beating on him with Link.
I disagree. FF VII sold me on playstation. If that game didn't come out I probably wouldn't have bought a PS1. I still think it's the absolute best RPG ever made and is still in my top 5 games of all time. Agree to disagree I guess.
Post by: capamerica on December 21, 2006, 10:48:32 AM
Even thou Brood Wars was an expansion there was enough new stuff to make it its own game. It was almost like a sequel to StarCraft. Given the option I would pick Brood Wars over the original.
Post by: UERD on December 21, 2006, 12:51:18 PM
Post by: MorningStar on December 21, 2006, 09:00:02 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on December 22, 2006, 05:14:40 AM
I agree. Blizzard's expansions are fantastic. But if you buy Starcraft usually you buy it in a set with Brood Wars. Plus if PC games were on the Wii I think we would want expansion packs to be included. If precedent was set to make them seperate then EA is going to have fifty different Sims expansions on there. Blizzard makes damn near full games for expansions but most devs don't so I think it would be best if packaging expansions with the original game was the accepted standard.
It doesn't matter anyway I guess since we're probably not going to see PC games on the VC. It would probably be more complicated than dumping ROMs. Though I guess they could use a DOS emulator.
Post by: JonLeung on December 22, 2006, 05:24:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ryancokeQuote
Originally posted by: JonLeungQuote
FF VII is clearly the most overrated game out there, but Tifa is still hot. I'll admit it.
Don't worry about it, it's unlikely. If it does happen, it'd be Cloud, and then I'll enjoy beating on him with Link.
I disagree. FF VII sold me on playstation. If that game didn't come out I probably wouldn't have bought a PS1. I still think it's the absolute best RPG ever made and is still in my top 5 games of all time. Agree to disagree I guess.
I didn't say it was bad, I said it was overrated. There's a difference.
I rented a PSX for a week just to play FF VII (I borrowed a PSX later for other games, but FF VII was the first big one). After finishing it, I bought the PC version and played through that. I liked the game too.
What makes it overrated is that people still rant and rave about it ten years later even though everyone and their neighbour's dog and cat should've already played it through a couple times already.
I say, STFU and play something else already. FF VII was good for its time, but guess what? Time has passed.
I still like to gawk at Tifa, but the game itself is becoming unappealing because of time.
I also dislike FF fans that hopped on the bandwagon only after VII, and never bothered to seek out the earlier games. Definition of a graphics whore, let me tell you.
