Post by: WindyMan on December 15, 2006, 11:56:36 AM
http://www.windyman.net/?p=60
Quote
If Nintendo can release great games in Japan and Europe, why not in North America? There must be a reason.
It might have something to do with Sega. While we bitch and complain about the lack of Nintendo classics, Sega is pulling no punches. By the end of the year, this will be the Genesis lineup (in alphabetical order):
* Altered Beast
* Columns
* Dr. Robotnik’s Mean Bean Machine
* Ecco the Dolphin
* Golden Axe
* Gunstar Heroes
* Ristar
* Sonic the Hedgehog
* Space Harrier II
* Toe Jam & Earl
Compare that to Nintendo’s post-launch VC additions. Notice a difference in quality? Not even a month after the Virtual Console service began, Sega already has most of their top-tier Genesis games available to download. So where’s the best of Nintendo? Most SNES games are good enough to compete with Sega’s releases, right? So where are they?
Isn’t it obvious yet? Nintendo is letting Sega have top billing on Virtual Console.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 15, 2006, 11:58:42 AM
Post by: Hocotate on December 15, 2006, 12:07:26 PM
Post by: King of Twitch on December 15, 2006, 12:08:28 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on December 15, 2006, 12:10:04 PM
Post by: Kairon on December 15, 2006, 12:45:49 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: JonLeung on December 15, 2006, 12:49:45 PM
Post by: utarefsoN on December 15, 2006, 01:03:44 PM
Post by: Neodymium on December 15, 2006, 01:15:22 PM
Now I need to wash my pants.
Post by: Pittbboi on December 15, 2006, 01:25:14 PM
It's one thing to hold off from releasing your entire gaming library to keep from flooding the place. However, all this picking and teasing and over-pricing Nintendo's doing with their VC is overkill. The main thing I feared about the VC was that Nintendo was going to use it as a crutch, and slowly but surely that seems to be the case. And there's no excuse. I shouldn't be anticipating SNES GAMES on my freaking Wii. They should just be there. Screw trying to help Sega out. Heck, this whole freaking operation is nothing but profit.
Post by: trip1eX on December 15, 2006, 01:25:15 PM
Post by: Pittbboi on December 15, 2006, 01:34:11 PM
They're treating the VC as part of their money-making strategy instead of a perk, which is what it should be. No matter what, Nintendo is going to make a profit from the VC. There's no way they can't. Them stretching the titles out so thinly is just them wanting to make as much money as they possibly can, and make the dry spells seem not so bad (which they'll still be. Because no amount of VC titles are going to tide me over if I'm anticipating a Wii game).
Post by: Keldryn on December 15, 2006, 01:35:54 PM
All of this complaining is dumb. It hasn't even been a single month yet. Nintendo will release a few titles at a time, which makes sense from pretty much any perspective.
Post by: RiskyChris on December 15, 2006, 01:38:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
But that's what I hate. I don't know about you, but I pretty much have a good idea of what I liked on the NES and SNES and what I've always wanted to play. I'm not going to go for the lesser fare. And hey, even if I did decide to take a risk, I would do it anyway even if every single game Nintendo ever made was already on the VC.
They're treating the VC as part of their money-making strategy instead of a perk, which is what it should be. No matter what, Nintendo is going to make a profit from the VC. There's no way they can't. Them stretching the titles out so thinly is just them wanting to make as much money as they possibly can, and make the dry spells seem not so bad (which they'll still be. Because no amount of VC titles are going to tide me over if I'm anticipating a Wii game).
Nintendo is not your friend. Nintendo is a business.
Thankfully, stretching out VC titles is about as evil as they will be. At least they're not forcing Blu-ray on us.
Post by: Pittbboi on December 15, 2006, 02:04:18 PM
And I refuse to see how much weight on the server this would be when are just a few megs, NES games even less than that, and only having SD cards to work with. There are servers that could handle that amount of traffic with ease.
Post by: UncleBob on December 15, 2006, 02:08:54 PM
Post by: MorningStar on December 15, 2006, 02:14:15 PM
Post by: Viewtiful mario on December 15, 2006, 02:35:36 PM
Quote
Heck, this whole freaking operation is nothing but profit.
[Sarcasm] REALLY?! that's ubserd! what next, are you going to say they make video games just so people will buy them and so they can make a profit? Thoes evil evil people![/sarcasm]
look at it this way, the T-G16 has already released Bonks adventures, Superstar Solder, and Bomberman, what else do they have left? The wii is going to be out for 4 years, what's the point of quickly releasing titles if you've got plenty of time to do it. Lests say nintndo releases Super Metroid, Earthbound, Zelda, Super mario World, and all of there other best selling francises within 6 weeks. That's 42 days and already they've given us there whole library of AA titles. Now what are they going to release for the other 98% of it's 4 year life cycle? If they release it all right when everyone wanted it then there wouldn't be anything to look forward to in the future.
Post by: NeoThunder on December 15, 2006, 04:45:34 PM
On the pricing that is. If people were to all of a sudden stop buying Wii points cause of the overpricing of games. I'm sure we would see them come down.
However, I have to say even 3 or 4 new games a week is a lot more than Xbox Live Arcade....however, the small amount of VC games at launch was inexcusable.
Post by: oohhboy on December 15, 2006, 05:42:27 PM
Beyond network considerations, emulation issuses, nintendo is in no rush to release thier own games because they will sell regardless of when they are released. It is no different from what happened during launch. Nintendo delayed/held back most of their line-up to give 3rd party some spot light time. At any given time there is only so much money being spent on games, even during launch. If they flood a time period with their own games, everybody else runs the risk of staving.
Also currently demand excceds supply for thw Wii, therefore, they don't need to increase demand. they need to bring their console supply up. Generating extra demand now would be a waste of effort and time for both Nintendo and the comsumer at large.
Post by: 31 Flavas on December 15, 2006, 07:36:55 PM
QuoteHeh... You're familiar with the GBA "NES Classics" line of games, right? I saw an ad in Nintendo Power magazine for essentially a "Genesis Classics" release of Sonic the Hedgehog (the original) for the GBA.
Originally posted by: MJRx9000
Sega does on VC what Nintendon't
My first reaction literally was, "Hey wait.... What about all that Blast processing crap? Sega does what Nintendon't!"
Post by: SixthAngel on December 15, 2006, 08:00:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
The main thing I feared about the VC was that Nintendo was going to use it as a crutch, and slowly but surely that seems to be the case. And there's no excuse. I shouldn't be anticipating SNES GAMES on my freaking Wii. They should just be there. Screw trying to help Sega out. Heck, this whole freaking operation is nothing but profit.
First of all the VC is in no way being used as a crutch. The system is on the market for a month and in demand like crazy this is simply not the case. There are also some great games out already (Zelda and Elebits come to mind).
You also should be anticipating VC game releases, that is what Nintendo wants. These games are older but are being released just like new games. Mondays have already become a Wii event, something that draws attention and the games even get some hype. The trend is going to continue with big names being spread out, get used to it.
Post by: The Omen on December 16, 2006, 01:52:46 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 16, 2006, 03:59:20 AM
Maybe Nintendo is seeing how the third party games are doing before fully investing on the VC.
Post by: BlkPaladin on December 16, 2006, 06:12:04 AM
Post by: Svevan on December 16, 2006, 07:39:35 AM
Nintendo is wise to give Sega a boost on VC because, geez, they just released most of these games on PS2. Count me out of the $8 Genesis VC realm, count me IN to the Genesis Collection on Sony's machine.
Post by: Sabe002 on December 16, 2006, 01:21:22 PM
Post by: Kairon on December 16, 2006, 01:46:21 PM
Quote
Japan VC ranking 12/8~12/14
1. Super Mario brothers
2. Super Mario World
3. Super Mario 64
4. Mario Brothers
5. Donkey Kong Country
6. Puyo Puyo
7. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
8. Bomberman '94
9. R-Type
10. The Legend of Zelda
If third parties want to sell AT ALL, Nintendo has to give 'em a chance first.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Crimm on December 16, 2006, 02:01:41 PM
Of course, that cuts both ways. Sega gets the benefit of not having to re-enact the early 90s console war as well.
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 16, 2006, 03:25:50 PM
It's Sega's "home turf" as well.
Post by: Kairon on December 16, 2006, 04:05:01 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 16, 2006, 07:02:23 PM
Post by: Crimm on December 16, 2006, 07:09:21 PM
Post by: segagamer12 on December 17, 2006, 04:44:46 AM
Plus I have input releting to thread honest.
First off why the hell are peopel STILL complaining about the cost? have ANY OF YOU, who complain about the cost, even tried collecting old NES, SNES or Genesis games? HAVE YOU? NO! Because if you had you would know that Gunstar Heroes is a 15.00 Genesis game, Mario 64 goes for 12.00 THE VERY LEAST, TG16 games are RARE AS HELL, and other than Aletered Beast and Sonic are the only Genssis games released so far you can get bellow 5.00. Golden axe suuaaly goes fro between 8 to 10. F-friggin Zero is also an 8 dollar SNES titled used most places.
Holy friggin crap shut up already. Th VC games are a bargain, a fu$&ing bargain compared to the ACTUAL games. EVEN the CLASSIC NES games are 10.00 for GBA aand started at 20 and still sold pretty decent. Sonic Classic Genesis also sold at 20.00 for GBA.
Goto any friggin used video game store that SELLS Genesis and SNES stuff check out the prices and then stop complaining. Zelda on NES us ususaly 8 dollars on its own and VC lets you have it for five. GBA relese for same game was 20 and Zelda Collectrs edition is close to fifty everywhere I see it.
DAMN Shut up about the prices. if its too high then dont pay it. But your not going to find them anywhre else exzcept PS2 compilations for cheaper. If you got a Ps2 get those, if not shut up.
AS for Sega vs Nintendo, Sega, like it or not, has been selling alot of games lately and Nintendo got shafted with GC and I think they are trying to get on thier good side so they can get thier GOOD games on thier system that might sell.
Also Sega is an American company. It was started by Americans and it is RUN by Americans. Even since they merged with Sammy the US headquarters still makes most of the decisions. Sega Japan is thier JAPAN equivelant of Nintendo America. Except Sega Japan actualy makers thier own decisions and NOA doeas what big brother says.
Sega America and Sega Japan are almost 2 seperate companies. Sega America does the BULK of thier development even. Also there is the fact that IN JAPAN Genesis (Mega Drive) didnt even make an impression. OUt of the 30 Million Genesis consoles sold world wide, 18 Million were US, the 10 Million Europe, what does that leave Japan?
Sega even knwos Japan isnt rhie home terf. It ever was. All it is now is HQ for corporate offices, Nothing more nothing less. Sega has always had an American mentality as it was started as American company.
So it makes more sense they would try and sell thier games here because everyone knwos they dont have prayer in Japan. Saturn was thier only hit in Japan and it didnt take long for PS to over shadow that.
Post by: NeoThunder on December 17, 2006, 06:55:15 AM
first of all, the license that you buy on your Wii is more limited to that what you get at a used game store. If you buy games online and download them...then get tired of them, you can't sell them. With a used game it has value and can therefor be sold again. As well as you can only play your VC games on the one and only Wii that you downloaded them to, i'll admit that isn't that big of deal considering most of us don't play retro games on different systems.
second is used game store can't make the games....as we all know. If they only released so many games on the system, the less there are the more valueble that game is, and as time goes on the stock pile of those games will only go down since they never make anymore. Not to mention that these games at used stores cost what they do because of course....they buy them from people.....so they have to of course charge even more than that to make a profit, again, we all know this....I'm not trying to say no body is aware of this but I only say this cause it brings me to the third.....
which is third, ALL money that nintendo gets from VC sales is profit....period. There is no cost of manufacturing or parts, and for nintendo and third parties, this is a second chance to make money on a product that is done and over. So to argue that Nintendo for some reason must charge near the same for them in a used store is stupid. From a marketing standpoint in my opinion, the best thing you want to do is sell it at the lowest cost possible that everyone is willing to pay. All you have to do is look at wal-mart and know that this method in fact does work.
So in my personal opinion, I do believe if you were to lower the cost of VC games, given the choice between used games and VC, I'm sure if the cost difference is fair enough rather than close to the same, people would go with a clear choice of downloading it at a lower cost. After all, I'm sure Nintendo would rather make some money than no money, cause of course they make no money if someone buys it used. Plus if you can get 2 games for 6 dollars, or just 1 game for 5. Clearly the 2 games for 6 is a win win situation, even though it's only a dollar more, you take and add it up and I believe they would make more money than their method currently.
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 17, 2006, 07:01:51 AM
The VC prices are still too high to be reasonable, IMO.
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 17, 2006, 10:28:45 AM
So being able to download those games for only 8 dollars is a very reasonable deal to me, when the only other alternative is spending about 3 times as much per game.
Post by: Kairon on December 17, 2006, 10:52:07 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 17, 2006, 10:59:58 AM
But the prices for the NES games are a bit too much. I mean, who in their right mind would pay 6 bucks for Mario Bros.?
Post by: The Omen on December 17, 2006, 11:22:23 AM
Post by: Kairon on December 17, 2006, 11:39:44 AM
$5 is MORE than worth it for Kickle Cubicle.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ceric on December 17, 2006, 12:27:08 PM
Well it seems the VC is using a similar model but with fixed average prices.
Edit: This was suppose to be posted about 2 hours ago
Post by: Arbok on December 17, 2006, 01:03:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I was interested in getting one of Raymond Feists newer books so, I go looking for it as an e-Book. I found it was offered. For about a dollar cheaper then they hardback. Rip-Off... so I went looking at other ones. They were all like that even when the paperback was already out. Thats a rip-off. I like the format but its digital not physical. Not nearly as durable and now way to get it back if my computer dies.
Yep, I'd agree there. After all, Apple charges $13-15 for movies, and I can't imagine spending that type of money versus a DVD considering the limited use I would get from it. The music industry is in, a lot of ways, ahead of everyone else here. However, that's also largely due to them being much easier to digitally pirate then other mediums.
Post by: Ceric on December 17, 2006, 01:14:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I was interested in getting one of Raymond Feists newer books so, I go looking for it as an e-Book. I found it was offered. For about a dollar cheaper then they hardback. Rip-Off... so I went looking at other ones. They were all like that even when the paperback was already out. Thats a rip-off. I like the format but its digital not physical. Not nearly as durable and now way to get it back if my computer dies.
Yep, I'd agree there. After all, Apple charges $13-15 for movies, and I can't imagine spending that type of money versus a DVD considering the limited use I would get from it. The music industry is in, a lot of ways, ahead of everyone else here. However, that's also largely due to them being much easier to digitally pirate then other mediums.
Very Very True.
Post by: segagamer12 on December 18, 2006, 05:03:56 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on December 18, 2006, 05:58:33 AM
I think Nintendo's logic for holding back VC games is more selfish. Virtually all of the NES games released thus far are in Animal Crossing. In other words they're games many of us probably already have and don't need to buy again. But the VC is a new concept that we want to try out. We want to buy some games. So Nintendo limits it to the scraps we otherwise would never buy in hope that with nothing else we'll bite on some of the weaker titles or a game we already have. I think Solomon's Key, which may have been Tecmo's choice to release, is the only NES game that hasn't been re-released recently. Everything else is an Animal Crossing title or it's Zelda, which is available both on the GBA and on the Zelda Collector's Disc. Super Mario 64 is on the DS of course and I figure the two SNES games are just there to demonstrate that, yes, they have SNES games so people don't ask why a whole system isn't supported yet. Hell Sim City is technically playable for FREE on Maxis' web site (or was last time I checked). So we have two games on the Nintendo VC systems that haven't been re-released recently. That doesn't seem like just a coincedence.
Post by: segagamer12 on December 18, 2006, 06:25:55 AM
Most of the sports games I didnt like but Blades of Steel and Techmo Bowl I did plus RBI Baseball and World Cup Soccer/Super Spike Vball
Maybe we should al start a petition to Nintendo on what games we want to see released.
Ill make the list, everyone copy paste it and send it off to NOA via email and print it off and mail to NOA offices. then we migth get heard. We need to organise peopel so if yo elect me to be your leader I will get things doen. Thats a promise from a red blooded republican you can take to heart it wont get broken. Read my lips on that one.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 18, 2006, 06:47:54 AM
What's your policy on...uh...lunch?
Oh and I want Jackal on the VC. And Code Name: Viper. Hell pretty much any game by Capcom or Konami should be available.
Post by: Kairon on December 18, 2006, 08:43:15 AM
/discorporates
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: segagamer12 on December 19, 2006, 12:04:06 AM
I will get that list sent off to Nintendo tonite.
I am adding Nightmare On Elm Street to list cuz thats a game I really want on VC.
Post by: Kairon on December 19, 2006, 09:47:23 AM
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *thud*
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: couchmonkey on December 19, 2006, 11:36:02 AM
The advantage to putting more games and better games up would be to increase customer satisfaction or increase demand. But demand is already higher than supply. Customer satisfaction? Well, it seems to be mediocre with VC but it seems to be very high with Wii in general.
The advantages to putting out fewer games are:
- higher purchase rate for third party games (what WindyMan said)
- higher purchase rate overall (players are considering games they would have ignored if there were 100 games available)
- more long-term sales (the supply of classic games will last longer if they release them slowly)
- more opportunity for strategic releases (sure you could put every Mario and Zelda game on VC at launch, but then what do you release during the upcoming drought?)
It sucks for hardcore gamers but from Nintendo's perspective this makes perfect sense. In the new year, if sales start drooping and the new game lineup is very thin, Nintendo should start pumping out some bigger titles on VC. If it doesn't, then I'll join the complaints department.
Ian: I don't expect Nintendo to stop supporting VC in the foreseeable future. I think this is Nintendo's iTunes. It's a new platform for game sales, and I think it's going to carry over to future generations. I could see Nintendo being greedy jerks and forcing people to re-buy stuff on the next console, but I think the VC will be there in one form or another. I agree that physical games are nicer, though.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 20, 2006, 05:00:29 AM
Maybe not the VC itself but the Wii eventually will no longer be supported and since games aren't associated with an account but rather the system itself if your Wii conks out in 2015 then you'll probably be screwed. But even if Nintendo didn't exist anymore I could still play my SNES games provided I could find working physical hardware.
Hell 1000 years in the future when archeologists unearth the lost civilization of America, scientists could probably find a way to get physical copies of games, movies, music, etc. to work. All the papers will read "Scientists crack the DVD code, ancient films discovered."
Post by: lastexit on December 20, 2006, 12:00:49 PM
As for pricing, if you don't want the game don't buy it. I think most price-complainers are collectors who MUST OWN EVERYTHING and are mad because they can't buy it all cause they're not rich enough waah waah wahh. Five bucks is nothing for a game. Stop complaining. I'm certain that as time goes on you'll see more creative ways of getting games cheap and/or free. Expect to see Nintendo sponsor contents and competitions with Wii Points as prizes. There are many tie-ins for Wii Points (nintendo currency) that will explain why this is setup as it is.
The original premise of this thread is right-on-the-nose. Nintendo agreed to let these companies take the early lead and this is part of how they got them on their system in the first place. Also, this lets 3rd parties experience the VC as a revenue-generating business rather than just a neat thing Nintendo is doing and making money off (from console sales). Ideally the trickle of back-catalog will last long enough to meet the inevitable NEW VC offerings. This will probably take an entire year but ultimately Nintendo wants Sega and others developing new games for the VC in addition to homebrew-level playres and small startups. If companies like Sega, Nintendo etc are creating new, quality titles for the VC this will make it a major major hit.
There are many tactics and strategies at play here and it's important to remember that the Wii has not been out for an entire month yet. Most people, myself included, can't even buy one yet. No chance. Nintendo is wise to use this time to work out kinks and get feedback so as to be fully prepared when the roll-out's second phase picks up steam and you start seeing LTTP and other popular games show up on VC along with more online services, more big games, Wii channels, etc. I suspect March 2007 will be Launch #2 for the Wii.
Lastly, don't forget the inevitable DS connectivity...
Post by: segagamer12 on December 20, 2006, 06:36:05 PM
I am all for the creaton of new SNEs and Genesis compatible games, that dont look like crap, but N64 was terrible graphics even for 2d games. Except MKT which was right on the money.
I dont get excited for 'new' old games. but that could all change.
Post by: couchmonkey on December 21, 2006, 02:17:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
I still dont get the NEW VC games, you do realise that inorder for that to be possible they will have to develop them using whatever console they are emulating, and the N64 is the most powerfull they have, So you will see N64 quality at most.
I am all for the creaton of new SNEs and Genesis compatible games, that dont look like crap, but N64 was terrible graphics even for 2d games. Except MKT which was right on the money.
I dont get excited for 'new' old games. but that could all change.
That's crazy talk, Yoshi's Story looks awesome. You may not like the style but the game has all kinds of cool special effects - but that's beside the point...
The more interesting point is, how will new games on the VC be developed? I don't actually think they'll work on emulated systems...instead there will be a...a..."virtual Wii"? Whatever it's called, there will be a separate category for new games, because one of Nintendo's goals is to allow developers to show off new ideas for the controller without having to have a big budget.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 21, 2006, 05:34:30 AM
Maybe Nintendo is just waiting until more people can buy their VC games to unleash the big guns. They probably figure that people are going to pay more attention to the just released titles than the ones that were already available. So they wait until the Wii can be found in any store and then *bam* Super Metroid.
Post by: Kairon on December 21, 2006, 05:45:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Maybe Nintendo is just waiting until more people can buy their VC games to unleash the big guns. They probably figure that people are going to pay more attention to the just released titles than the ones that were already available. So they wait until the Wii can be found in any store and then *bam* Super Metroid.
The dream lives on!
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: JonLeung on December 21, 2006, 06:22:54 AM
QuoteYeah, new VC games can certainly be better than N64 quality. Come on, the Wii has GameCube hardware. And Wii hardware! There could be downloadable games, and as long as they can fit in the space provided, they can most certainly look as good as Wii games. Obviously space is the concern, you don't want something that would take too long to download and could sell on its own disc. But given that most N64 games are something like 8-32 MB (with a few outside of that range), I don't see why you can't have a puzzle game where the gameplay takes up a few kB and several MB give it some N64/GCN or even Wii-quality graphics.
Originally posted by: couchmonkeyQuoteThe more interesting point is, how will new games on the VC be developed? I don't actually think they'll work on emulated systems...instead there will be a...a..."virtual Wii"? Whatever it's called, there will be a separate category for new games, because one of Nintendo's goals is to allow developers to show off new ideas for the controller without having to have a big budget.
Originally posted by: segagamer12
I still dont get the NEW VC games, you do realise that inorder for that to be possible they will have to develop them using whatever console they are emulating, and the N64 is the most powerfull they have, So you will see N64 quality at most.
Post by: segagamer12 on December 21, 2006, 12:57:44 PM
All I meant was if they are going to be limited to the emulators they will be stuck using the dev tools from those systems, which is very limiting. Unless they can allow GC or Wii emulators which we dont know if they can or will beable to do that.
and sorry CM but yuck to YS I hated that game.
Post by: UERD on December 21, 2006, 01:54:10 PM
Besides, if Nintendo reps have said stuff about adding other systems possibly in the future, it's more than likely that the emulators aren't hardwired (or else they'd have to do it through a cumbersome firmware update, including people who might not even ever play the game).
Post by: segagamer12 on December 21, 2006, 01:56:44 PM
That doesnt mean they cant add others but knowing them its not likely.
Post by: TheJuggla17 on December 22, 2006, 11:50:02 AM
Post by: Ceric on December 22, 2006, 12:08:24 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 22, 2006, 12:11:30 PM
