Post by: Pittbboi on December 04, 2006, 07:02:56 AM
But it’s not over yet.
The Wii is a great console. Despite its flaws, the Wii is great enough that at this point, I feel that Nintendo has done enough to at least guarantee that it will maintain its market share. At the very LEAST this is guaranteed. Not only that, the Wii is the first home console from Nintendo that, in my opinion, actually has a chance to restore Nintendo to its former SNES glory (or get it pretty darn close with a chunk of the market that’s a little more sizable). But to do that, it’s going to take a bit more on Nintendo’s end, or at least I think so.
What do you think? Has Nintendo done so much right with the Wii already that all they have to do is sit back and let things naturally unfold and end with them in the lead? Or do you think there are still a few hurdles and life lessons Nintendo needs to learn in order reach the level of success it actually has a chance at this gen?
One thing I think Nintendo can do to make sure the Wii’s numbers stay high is capitalize on PS3’s post launch drought, and that entails making sure that they don’t have one. Right now the Wii’s one disadvantage (lack of power) isn’t as glaring because, frankly, PS3 doesn’t have any outstanding games that show off great graphics and great gameplay (and Xbox360 has, like, 2). And, with this HEAVY drought they’re in for, it looks like this will be the case for a long time. Nintendo couldn’t have asked for a better shot to prove that graphics don’t matter as much as gameplay. Unlike the PS3, the Wii has a good list of great games that are going to be released in the not so distant future. Or hopefully, because they haven’t been announced yet. Games like Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Party, and Metroid are games that are supposed to be spread out over 2007. It may be because they genuinely need the time to fine-tune the games. But Nintendo has been known to say that just to spread their titles over the year.
I honestly think they might better help the Wii out if they don’t do that. I think they should release any game they can in the post-launch period (beginning of next year) and rely on 3rd parties a little more to fill out the latter end. 3rd party support has already been boosted this time around so Nintendo shouldn’t have to worry about carrying the weight themselves by spreading out their titles. If they legitimately need the time to fine-tune the game, go ahead. But if a game can be released, I think ASAP would be the best time. PS3 is teetering on the thin line between failure and slow-start success, and if Nintendo can flood the market with awesome games at this most crucial point before the PS3 find its legs, it won’t just curb enthusiasm for the PS3, but generate even more enthusiasm for the Wii.
Anyway, that’s what I think? What about you?
Post by: segagamer12 on December 04, 2006, 07:20:53 AM
I think it is up to the 3rd parties to make GOOD use fot he remote to keep people coming in. We know Nintendo will make it look good, but what about Midway, Acclaim, Sega, Activision, EA, Konomi, Capcom? Will they make good use of it? EA has set up a whole studio just for Wii, and so has Disney. But I think that it will be up to the major players to show it off properly. Activision and Ubisoft are off to a good start. I hope Sega can get some of thier magic back with Wii and maybe Midway too.
I think they should get Metroid out in time to match Halo 3. And market the hell out of it. I am shocked to see so many Wii commercials when I saw only three GC commercials it entire lifespan.
I dont watch the tv chanels the usually advertise on so its nice to see thier ads poping up where they belong.
If they can keep it up with the marketing and come up with some kick ass ads to show off Metroid Prime 3 as the better FPS vs Halo 3 they might be in good shape. Halo 2 killed Echoes and Halo 3 could stunt MP3s growth a bit if Nintendo doesnt recognize its existance.
Post by: BigJim on December 04, 2006, 08:20:07 AM
They'll do better than GameCube. How much better is anybody's guess. But Nintendo's already hinted at hoping for 30+ million, which is itself basically a 50% sales increase over GCN, and on par with N64.
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 04, 2006, 08:25:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12 whatever happend to the old Nintendo that mandated 1 game a year no more no less and wouldn't let 3rd parties get away with crap. I miss those days. When Nintendo acted like the boss they got respect. But then again they chased people away too so maybe its better this way.
That was Yamauchi's Nintendo, the same Nintendo which most 3rd parties were all too happy to give the finger and leave when Sony showed up as an alternative.
It was treating 3rd parties like indentured servants that lost Nintendo the fight against the PS1. Nintendo is only now starting to regain the trust of 3rd parties and with the 3rd party sales of Wii games being quite strong, it's very good news for Nintendo as it shows that they're willing to allow 3rd parties a place at the table instead of trying to push their games first and foremost.
And Sony's "it's HD or nothing" attitude is certainly helping Nintendo to look like the good guy by comparison.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 04, 2006, 08:43:38 AM
I think what the Wii really needs is THAT game. And by that I mean the game that everyone plays and is talking about. The Cube had ZERO titles like this. The N64 had at least three and you could probably argue it had more than that. PS2 had GTA3. Xbox had Halo. It's that game that is so huge that everyone is playing it and if they're not they're at least talking about it. You read something unrelated to videogames and the writer mentions it.
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 04, 2006, 08:46:48 AM
I swear, they just need to release "Body Age" for the Wii with physical exercises instead of brain exercises and they have the western market cornered.
Post by: IceCold on December 04, 2006, 08:47:02 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 04, 2006, 08:50:14 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on December 04, 2006, 09:05:29 AM
Most likely, the product that we're looking for hasn't even been announced yet, but as long as Nintendo does a good job of searching for it and getting it out to the people once it's found, then Wii is in good shape. Someone on here had the idea of a car mechanics game, I thought that was a great idea.
Also, Nintendo needs the third party support, but I think that's already coming along nicely. If support continues on this level and Nintendo finds more system-proving concepts, I think the support will grow naturally.
Post by: Pittbboi on December 04, 2006, 09:07:33 AM
The Wii-Sports gets close. But I think it's too targeted at the non-gamer to be THAT game.
But Wii needs a THAT game that isn't Wii-sports. In my opinion, it's going to take a more "traditional" game to become THAT game for the Wii. For the PS2 and Xbox, heck even the N64, THAT games weren't "hippie" games that were targetted at non-gamers like Wii-Sports. They were "hardcore" games that were so hyped and such HUGE surprise hits that even non-gamers wanted it, even if all they did was run around punching people and screwing hookers, or run around the screen shooting at anything on the screen, not knowing what they were doing.
But I think it's important that they find THIS game as soon as they can. Because so far Nintendo has been riding on the wiimote and the idea that Gameplay is more essential than Graphics and Xbox360 and PS3 aren't offering much in the way of gameplay. Which so far is true. But, eventually, Xbox and PS3 are going to get a game that simply nails BOTH graphics and gameplay (something Wii just isn't capable of this gen). If Wii doesn't have THAT game by them, they might lose a LOT of their hype.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 04, 2006, 09:09:49 AM
I heard about it online a fair bit but it wasn't big enough that I would consider it. I never heard strangers on the bus talking about SSBM. I still hear people talk about Halo today. SSBM wasn't a phenomenon, it was just a really popular game. I'm talking games that transcend the console they're on. It doesn't matter what console it's on, people will just get it. The console just becomes the machine that plays THAT game.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 04, 2006, 09:48:38 AM
Now, go away, everyone.
Post by: zakkiel on December 04, 2006, 10:02:28 AM
Post by: Arbok on December 04, 2006, 10:35:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"SSBM for the Cube"
I heard about it online a fair bit but it wasn't big enough that I would consider it. I never heard strangers on the bus talking about SSBM. I still hear people talk about Halo today. SSBM wasn't a phenomenon, it was just a really popular game. I'm talking games that transcend the console they're on. It doesn't matter what console it's on, people will just get it. The console just becomes the machine that plays THAT game.
It sold around 6 million copies... what more do you want from it?
In contrast, Halo sold around 7 million and Halo 2 sold around 7.5 million. But neither compare to GTA, with Vice City scoring 14 million. Still, SSBM should be included given the HUGE number of software it pushed.
Post by: ThePerm on December 04, 2006, 10:49:22 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on December 04, 2006, 10:52:54 AM
In North America it might be something different, who knows? Actually, if Wii Sports is THAT game, then we'll never know for sure because it's being sold hand-in-hand with the console.
I don't know if GameCube had the big monster game we're talking about or not, but I don't think it would have saved the system anyway. GTA didn't sell 100 million PS2s all on its own. It was the combination of many games that sold that system. Halo was a huge deal, but the Xbox only outsold GameCube by a couple million systems.
I think the big game(s) for Wii have a better chance of making an impact because the system itself is so unique. It's like Tetris - the game was big elsewhere, but I think the combination of Tetris and Game Boy was something really special.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 04, 2006, 11:08:46 AM
The "it" factor that SSBM didn't have but Halo and GTA3 did where it extends beyond gamer culture and becomes straight up pop culture. This isn't just related to sales. Sales is a factor but there also needs to be this public awareness of the game. I'm talking about when your parents know of the game and mention it at some point and yet you don't have it and have never talked to them about it.
The Gamecube never had a game like that and the proof is simply that the Cube never had a period of time where it was a hot mainstream product.
This isn't a bash on SSBM. The type of game I'm talking about is rare, though the market leading console always has at least one of them.
Post by: Ceric on December 04, 2006, 11:35:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"SSBM for the Cube"
I heard about it online a fair bit but it wasn't big enough that I would consider it. I never heard strangers on the bus talking about SSBM. I still hear people talk about Halo today. SSBM wasn't a phenomenon, it was just a really popular game. I'm talking games that transcend the console they're on. It doesn't matter what console it's on, people will just get it. The console just becomes the machine that plays THAT game.
It sold around 6 million copies... what more do you want from it?
In contrast, Halo sold around 7 million and Halo 2 sold around 7.5 million. But neither compare to GTA, with Vice City scoring 14 million. Still, SSBM should be included given the HUGE number of software it pushed.
I want it to be a household name. That's what Ians getting at. Mario is a household name. Halo has became a household name. Same with GTA.
As I've said before you can't design a game to be "that" game it has to just happen.
Oh and Nintendo doesn't need to really be hitting Sony while there down, which they are at the moment. No like in all good videogames, and in real life, you need to hit them right before they get there footing. That way you don't just do base damage you also get the damage from the fall.
At the moment I think ironing out the Technical side of things will make or break Nintendo faster. Like,
1) Fixing the transfer of saves from SD card
2) Weather Channel
3) News Channel
4) Internet Channel
5) VC Selection
These where all "on launch" features that have not shown as of yet. It is frankly a shame that we don't have Ver. 1 of these and that they are not getting to work on Ver. 2. Games will be in development and 3rd parties need a little time. I see this as an excellent opportunity for Nintendo to sure up there offering where it needs it the most at the moment. The little areas before they really have to start swinging out the big guns. I personally am excited about BWii, Project H.a.m.m.e.r., and DQ.
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 04, 2006, 11:52:11 AM
Post by: Ceric on December 04, 2006, 11:54:31 AM
Post by: The Omen on December 04, 2006, 11:55:49 AM
Post by: Arbok on December 04, 2006, 11:58:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
This isn't a bash on SSBM. The type of game I'm talking about is rare, though the market leading console always has at least one of them.
What was the PS1's then?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 04, 2006, 12:01:12 PM
Final Fantasy VII. People that had never played an RPG in their life ran out and bought a Playstation for it just because of the FMV shown in the TV ad.
Post by: Arbok on December 04, 2006, 12:08:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"What was the PS1's then?"
Final Fantasy VII. People that had never played an RPG in their life ran out and bought a Playstation for it just because of the FMV shown in the TV ad.
So it would seem, I had no idea that game sold 9.8 million copies. Never would have figured it was bigger than either of the Halos.
Post by: Galford on December 04, 2006, 01:10:20 PM
The Wii's real test will come when Halo 3 is released on the 360 and MGS 4 on the PS3.
Both have graphics the Wii can't reproduce and both will have not new, but at least solid gameplay. Both will have large budgets for advertisements.
If Nintendo can weather those storms well then the Wii will do good this generation. If not the expect 3rd party support to drop quicker then the Gamecube's did.
On a quick note about graphics, what ever game Sony is currently showing in store demos looks infinitely better then Excitetruck. Nintendo needs to show better demos and new gamestyles ASAP.
Post by: segagamer12 on December 04, 2006, 01:49:37 PM
Zelda is still a huge franchise and I think alot of GCs potentila was lost when so many people wee disapointed with WW. regardless of its actualy quality it was percieved as childish and lame by most. TP is getting most people interested in the system. But its still not as mainstream as it used to be. I even know people who think its on Xbox and not Nintendo. sad but true.
The other difference is when GC came out and those who bought it were telling thier freinds about it the first thing asked was, can it play DVDs. when a no answer came that was that for most people PS3 doesnt have that cuz so far nobody cares about blu ray and hardly anyone even knows what it is, even people who I know who want Ps3 have never heard of Blu Ray cuz Sony isn't advertising it as part of the package.
I still wish it had that news chanel and weather chanel up at launch when I showed my Wii to my dad the first thing he said was I shoudl have got that Sony Player. Not even knowing what it was. but Dads Sony man all the way.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on December 04, 2006, 02:28:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Galford
what ever game Sony is currently showing in store demos looks infinitely better then Excitetruck.
..when it's not frozen
::runs::
Post by: Ceric on December 04, 2006, 02:34:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Stimutacs AddictQuote
Originally posted by: Galford
what ever game Sony is currently showing in store demos looks infinitely better then Excitetruck.
..when it's not frozen
::runs::
Plus for the power difference I didn't think there was really enough of a difference between the two.
:
itto::
Post by: bustin98 on December 04, 2006, 04:14:39 PM
Post by: King of Twitch on December 04, 2006, 04:50:23 PM
Getting the Goldeneye license for the VC would be the coup de' grace. No matter how much it costs, or how many lawyers they have to deal with, they should get it.
Post by: Pittbboi on December 04, 2006, 04:51:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: CericQuote
Originally posted by: Stimutacs AddictQuote
Originally posted by: Galford
what ever game Sony is currently showing in store demos looks infinitely better then Excitetruck.
..when it's not frozen
::runs::
Plus for the power difference I didn't think there was really enough of a difference between the two.
:
Are you kiddin? I was mesmerized by the dirt flying up from behind the cars alone...
Post by: SixthAngel on December 04, 2006, 05:12:08 PM
MGS4 will be another big game but it simply isn't at the same level as MGS 2 was when it came out. It is the fourth in the series so some of the hype has died and if I remember correctly the third one didn't sell as well as expected (can you confirm this?).
Post by: Ceric on December 05, 2006, 03:13:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: bustin98
What it will take is a game that lets 16 (or more) people play against each other at the same time. And I doubt Metroid is going to do that. In fact I doubt any Nintendo published title will do that. Ever. Well, I guess if they go for a Pokemon MMO that might count.
Personally I hope Metroid doesn't do any multiplayer at all. Co-op may be acceptable but not really.
Now on the other hand I would like to see a tactic game or a multiplayer/squad base/coop game in the Metroid Universe with those flunkies that hire her. But not Samus herself. It be like TP but with Link getting split like Four Swords. No thank you. Four Swords was good but it has no place in my main game.
Post by: Arbok on December 05, 2006, 04:19:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
It is the fourth in the series so some of the hype has died and if I remember correctly the third one didn't sell as well as expected (can you confirm this?).
Snake Eater sold 3.75 million copies worldwide, 1.2 million of which were in the US (so you are right in that 4 probably won't push a huge number of consoles).
Post by: couchmonkey on December 05, 2006, 04:23:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
While Halo 3 and MGS 4 will certainly be big games I don't see them drawing in the crowd everyone expects. Halo 3 is catering to the current xbox fan and many of the previous Halo fans already have a 360. This game will be big but nothing groundbreaking enough to make too much of a difference. With how the second ended I would expect any new players to the series to feel left out.
MGS4 will be another big game but it simply isn't at the same level as MGS 2 was when it came out. It is the fourth in the series so some of the hype has died and if I remember correctly the third one didn't sell as well as expected (can you confirm this?).
I agree on Halo 3. I think the game will sell some systems, but I don't see Xbox 360 becoming the next PS2 just because of Halo.
MGS 4 may have a bigger impact simply because PS3 is still getting started, but I also think it's losing its appeal. I did some digging and supposedly MGS2 sold around 7 million units on PS2 alone. MGS3 had sold 3.6 million as of the launch of MGS3: Subsistence, so maybe it's sold around 5 million total?
GTA should be really interesting. It was so huge last generation, but I wonder if people really want to spend all that money just to play a graphically enhanced version of the same old game.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 05, 2006, 05:19:00 AM
But there is still a difference. The general public isn't really supposed to know the difference. Public knowledge that the Wii is underpowered will lose some sales. It sure as hell won't convert the PS3 crowd anyway.
I think Nintendo's best option is a new franchise altogether. Zelda, Metroid and Mario didn't sell Cubes so why would they sell Wii's? Who is going to buy a Wii for Metroid Prime 3 if Metroid Prime 1 & 2 didn't attract them to the Cube? They need something new that new fans can relate to. After all part of the goal is to attract a wider audience that isn't going to be familiar with the classic Nintendo franchises. On the Cube Nintendo relied WAY too much on franchises and it's no wonder that few beyond Nintendo fans cared.
Though I think Metroid could sell better with better marketing and Zelda is still cool, it just didn't help the Cube because Wind Waker stripped away everything that made "Nintendo is k!ddy" types interested in Ocarina of Time. Metroid and Zelda PLUS something new would be a great combination but "the Cube games you didn't buy NOW WITH MOTION CONTROL" alone isn't going to do much.
When an entire generation of gamers has decided that Mario is for babies giving them tons of Mario isn't going to accomplish anything.
Post by: Galford on December 05, 2006, 06:39:25 AM
Plus in 2008 the Wii has to endure FF13. In Japan it will be a system seller and in the US
it will be a must buy.
It's just too early to tell which way this generation is going to go.
Post by: ryancoke on December 05, 2006, 07:48:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think Nintendo's best option is a new franchise altogether.
I completely agree. Nintendo needs a new Rare. When they teamed up with Rare for the N64 we got Goldeneye, Conker, Banjo Kazooie, and other great games that didn't depend on Nintendo franchises. I love Mario and Zelda but it would be awesome to get something of their caliber that's totally new. Or they could just make it so you could use your Mii in Mario Party and make a fortune that way
Post by: Kairon on December 05, 2006, 08:01:11 AM
I agree with Galford in that the test for the Wii will be how well it stands up to MGS4 and FFXIII on one side, and Halo 3 + other X360 hit title on the other.
Personally, I can't imagine the Wii breaking out without at least one major, undisputed third party AAA success story. This means DQIX, a Red Steel -esque game done RIGHT, or something else I'm not sure of.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: couchmonkey on December 06, 2006, 03:23:43 AM
Of course, I'm in the, "Wii is like DS and can succeed the same way as DS did" camp. Some people don't agree on that. I do believe Wii will have a hard time reaching the DS' level of success considering the Xbox 360 hit the market much earlier and MS and Sony both have decent reputations in the home console market, however, I can still see Wii grabbing up a ton of marketshare and even taking a first-place victory - just not as decisively as the DS vs. PSP.
Post by: segagamer12 on December 06, 2006, 05:05:35 AM
Wii sports changed everything. We play as a family at night and that is a HUGE accomplishment for my family. If its niot Tetris or Pac-Man they dont care. If Nintendo can get a Tetris liek DS had they will be hooked. BUT my parents won't buy a Wii but they might buy games for it.
If I move too far away and they can't play mine anymore they might get one once the nes channels start working cuz that is what Dad is harrassing me about all the time.
I think they just need to keep doing what they are dpoing and start gettign the kinks worke dout. Once News, Weather and Web Browsing channels all become functional I think Wii will be more imrpessive to the adult non gamers who consider video games toys. My dad would deffinelty get one then, he stated such.
I don't think they should rely on a single hit success story to sell the system,a dn I agree wholeheartedly with Ian, the gaems that DIDN"T sell the Cube WON'T sell the Wii. I have friends taht are SOLD on Wii (who HATE Nintendo and praise Sony as god) who are alrady getting Wii based on Sports games alone, Wii sports was the itnroduction Madden was the final sale.
THEY still think Metroid Prime 3 is crap and arent interested at all. Loved Red Steel so its a start. But I am witht hem, Wii needs mroe FPS games and some REAL shooterse liek House of Dead, THAT will sell systems and wipe out the (you knwo what) perception in once shot. N64 didnt have that cuz it HAD Doom, Quake, MK, Godleneye, etc. Cube had a few M rated games but werent noticed.
Everytone is undecided on Galaxy, even me. Everyone loves Mario World, Mario 64, and New Mario Bros, everyone I know hated Sunshine and isnt too impressed with Galaxy so far. (Dont flameplease its juts personal perception) so if Galaxy is good and wins me anbd my friend sover I am betting it will affect teh PS fanboy crowd cuz deep down they are all Mario fanboys too juts REAL Mario games not the spinoffs Cube got.
