Post by: WindyMan on November 29, 2006, 08:10:11 AM
NOA President Reggie Fils-Aime sat down with MTV News recently, and was asked a myriad of questions about the Wii. Reggie being Reggie, he answered the majority of them with actual answers. Here are some of the things he said.
Right off the bat, Reg pulls no punches when talking about the competition. "We're not arrogant. We don't view success as a right. We feel we need to earn success every day. And we're going to do that by being true to the gamer." He continues to say that although Nintendo is feeling really good after a successful Wii launch, the company knows it's just the start of a long battle. "We're looking at this as about eight days into the mission," said Reggie.
Reggie talked shop about upcoming Wii games. Super Mario Galaxy is coming, but he gave a rather broad release window of between March and December. 2K is apparently working on a baseball game that is a "perfect title for the Wii controller". He also commented on the unfair press that Red Steel is getting about how it takes "a few minutes to get used to the control scheme." (Look for our review of the game later today; it takes more than a few minutes.)
Virtual Console updates will come every Monday, at the rate of "one to five titles" every week. When pressed on why we don't have as many games in America as they do in Japan, Reggie responded that some games "may make perfect sense in Japan but we don't think in our marketplace have a lot of potential." Right.
Besides the online (and almost certainly U.S.-bound) Pokemon Battle Revolution, Fils-Aime also mentioned that "other unannounced online titles" are in development at the moment. We should expect to see some online games coming in one form or another "very early in 2007." Before then, however, Nintendo will be sending Wiis connected to WiiConnect24 a surprise of some sort before Christmas hits. What is it? "I'd hate to ruin the surprise," Reggie said.
There's much more stuff in the MTV article than any summary would provide, so hop on over there to get the full story.
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 29, 2006, 08:42:15 AM
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario World
Donkey Kong Country
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Don't have potential in North America???
Post by: TrueNerd on November 29, 2006, 08:58:39 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on November 29, 2006, 09:01:28 AM
QuoteThe interview goes into a bit more depth on that subject. It looks like Nintendo is going to hold the really big hit classics for any holes that might pop up in the release schedule. We pretty much have to hope for a small drought to get some of these games.
Originally posted by: nintendogamecube86
So:
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario World
Donkey Kong Country
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Don't have potential in North America???
On the other hand, I already bought most of Nintendo's big hits on the NES, SNES, and N64. They're the games I'm least likely to buy on the VC.
Post by: King of Twitch on November 29, 2006, 09:05:30 AM
Post by: SeaBass on November 29, 2006, 09:06:13 AM
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 29, 2006, 09:08:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TrueNerd
No Metroid until AFTER March? Galaxy more or less confirmed for November 07? Glorious! How nice of Nintendo to give me time to go back and finish Okami, Paper Mario 2, Killer 7, etc. Let's just hope they don't muck everything up and release Phantom Hourglass in the spring, amirite?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 29, 2006, 09:15:17 AM
This is totally the opposite of what Nintendo actually thinks. It bothers me how so often Reggie says the right thing and expresses the attitude Nintendo SHOULD have but sadly doesn't. It makes me hope that someday the higher-ups in NCL will think "hey the stuff that Reggie guy says always seems to go over well. Maybe we should actually DO that stuff instead of making him look like a liar all the time." They are less arrogant than Sony is thankfully but I'm still not convinced they don't still think they deserve success just because.
The potential in North America thing actually does make sense for some titles like Fire Emblem that would need to be translated into English (I think there's a SNES Fire Emblem for the Japanese launch). But for the most part that's just marketing speak. Though if the really good games are all coming out AFTER March then they probably need to delay the big VC titles for key down times.
With Metroid probably not coming out until at least halfway through 2007 I wager I'll be able to hold out for a Wii long enough for a price cut.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 29, 2006, 09:28:55 AM
Quote
"I'd hate to ruin the surprise," Reggie said.
It's a Reggie Mii! I just KNOW it!!!!
He hits every ball he swings at out of the ballpark, even splitters, every ball he bowls he gets three strikes, every swing in tennis results in the ball being lodged in the ground on the other side of the net, every golf stroke is a hole in one and the first punch he throws in boxing not only KOs the opposing Mii but deletes it outright.
Also, Ian, you're missing out. Wii Sports warrants the purchase of the console alone. Everything else is just icing.
Post by: SixthAngel on November 29, 2006, 09:43:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"We're not arrogant. We don't view success as a right. We feel we need to earn success every day. And we're going to do that by being true to the gamer."
This is totally the opposite of what Nintendo actually thinks. It bothers me how so often Reggie says the right thing and expresses the attitude Nintendo SHOULD have but sadly doesn't.
Nintendo has changed a lot in recent years I think they are no more arrogant then your average company now. Nintendo is certainly not thinking the Wii is the definite winner and Reggie is expressing this.
Post by: krillin1986 on November 29, 2006, 09:47:23 AM
)
Post by: Ian Sane on November 29, 2006, 10:06:01 AM
Well even if it isn't ExciteBike the surprise being a gift VC game is a likely idea. It's a cool idea too!
Post by: WPack911 on November 29, 2006, 10:18:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"We're not arrogant. We don't view success as a right. We feel we need to earn success every day. And we're going to do that by being true to the gamer."
This is totally the opposite of what Nintendo actually thinks. It bothers me how so often Reggie says the right thing and expresses the attitude Nintendo SHOULD have but sadly doesn't. It makes me hope that someday the higher-ups in NCL will think "hey the stuff that Reggie guy says always seems to go over well. Maybe we should actually DO that stuff instead of making him look like a liar all the time." They are less arrogant than Sony is thankfully but I'm still not convinced they don't still think they deserve success just because.
The potential in North America thing actually does make sense for some titles like Fire Emblem that would need to be translated into English (I think there's a SNES Fire Emblem for the Japanese launch). But for the most part that's just marketing speak. Though if the really good games are all coming out AFTER March then they probably need to delay the big VC titles for key down times.
With Metroid probably not coming out until at least halfway through 2007 I wager I'll be able to hold out for a Wii long enough for a price cut.
Come on now, you don't think Nintendo is working it's tail off with this Wii launch? Nintendo might not deliver all it's promise's on time, but at least they deliver them, unlike Sony or MS.
Nintendo is no longer arrogant that cost them the console market with the N64 and then they thought they could beat Sony at their own game with the GameCube and lost again. This time all arrogance is gone though, they are doing their own thing and using the best part of their company to fuel the Wii, that being innovation.
Nintendo does earn everything they get these days and they deserve respect for it.
-WPack911
Post by: RollWithIt on November 29, 2006, 10:27:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"We're not arrogant. We don't view success as a right. We feel we need to earn success every day. And we're going to do that by being true to the gamer."
This is totally the opposite of what Nintendo actually thinks. It bothers me how so often Reggie says the right thing and expresses the attitude Nintendo SHOULD have but sadly doesn't. It makes me hope that someday the higher-ups in NCL will think "hey the stuff that Reggie guy says always seems to go over well. Maybe we should actually DO that stuff instead of making him look like a liar all the time." They are less arrogant than Sony is thankfully but I'm still not convinced they don't still think they deserve success just because.
The potential in North America thing actually does make sense for some titles like Fire Emblem that would need to be translated into English (I think there's a SNES Fire Emblem for the Japanese launch). But for the most part that's just marketing speak. Though if the really good games are all coming out AFTER March then they probably need to delay the big VC titles for key down times.
With Metroid probably not coming out until at least halfway through 2007 I wager I'll be able to hold out for a Wii long enough for a price cut.
So what if nintendo would rather release a quality game then rush the release of something like so many other game company's do.......
Post by: Ian Sane on November 29, 2006, 10:58:57 AM
I don't think Nintendo was arrogant because they supposed tried to beat Sony at their own game with the Cube. I felt Nintendo was arrogant last gen because they let a lot of stupid goofs slide and took their customers for granted because they thought that since they're Nintendo everything just falls in their lap.
I don't see anything exceptional regarding the Wii launch. They've got a few first party games, one is a huge title but isn't really an exclusive. They've got about the same level of third party support at launch as they did with the Cube. They've got a lot of the American third parties that support everyone while most of the really good Japanese third parties are absent for now (Ubisoft and EA mean nothing; merely releasing a product ensures their support). There are a few new names showing excitement for the Wii but in the meantime Nintendo lost others and as the Cube demonstrated third parties showing excitement about a console doesn't mean squat. And there looks to be a drought of decent titles after launch, just like the Cube. I don't see anything incredibly poor with the Wii launch but it isn't beyond what should be expected. Arrogant Nintendo is the norm and I think it's too early to say that they've broken out of this mold yet. Just because Sony is being insanely arrogant doesn't mean Nintendo isn't. They just look better in comparison.
Plus their arrogance shines through with the VC. The games are overpriced and the selection sucks. As usual Nintendo is trying to squeeze every penny out of their customers. That is typical Nintendo arrogance. That is their usual assumption that they can dick us around and get away with it. Hell just look at that BS "no potential for North American market" line being fed to us. Until that sort of behaviour isn't commonplace I'm not going to think Nintendo has changed.
Post by: Galford on November 29, 2006, 11:49:48 AM
About the VC, it's a nice start but it has a looonnnnggg way to go. I can buy Capcom Collections and get 20 mostly good games for $20. For the price of bandwidth I can download the entire NES and SNES library from bittorrent and in some cases play the games in ways that are better then the original platform envisioned.
PS- No really where the hell is Fire Emblem and all those Japan only SNES releases from Square Enix. It would be nice to play these games legally for once.
Post by: UncleBob on November 29, 2006, 12:12:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Galford
For the price of bandwidth I can download the entire NES and SNES library from bittorrent and in some cases play the games in ways that are better then the original platform envisioned.
DUDE! For the price of a windbreak, I can go into Wal*Mart and steal a PS3! Why would I want to pay $600 for one?!?
Post by: ShyGuy on November 29, 2006, 12:16:03 PM
Post by: Ceric on November 29, 2006, 01:07:54 PM
Edit: Also I love for the surprise to be Excitebike. I would feel jipped if it was the Internet Channel because that wouldn't be much of a surprise at all. Be psyched if it was an original game for the Wii. (Even if it something lame like A Very Mario Christmas)
Post by: SixthAngel on November 29, 2006, 01:58:16 PM
A launch not being the best in the world is not arrogant.
The price of the virtual console is frankly opinion but it is not overpriced compared to the competition or most regular people, only to Nintendo fanboys who want to buy every single game. This is not dicking around, some guys in the business division figured out what price would sell the most games and get the most profit, like every other service/company. I never understood why people think Nintendo should just give things away, why should they?
The lineup is bad because they are slowly releasing them. Anyone should be able to see the benefits individual games, especially third parties, will recieve in sales from having this staggered release schedule. It is only two weeks after launch!
I don't know all the Japan/US details but I am sure the US has games Japan does not. The timing of the releases and what is released is also going to be run differently by NoA then in Japan. How did we get from bitching about high prices we won't pay to bitching about not getting enough of the games we apparently won't buy?
Post by: Djunknown on November 29, 2006, 02:17:48 PM
Quote
. Is there a DVD-playing Wii coming to the U.S. any time soon? "The answer is no."
There you go. Now unless you want to argue semantics and dissect word for word, let's shelve the DVD issue.
Quote
And third, don't let go of the Wii remote when you're pitching in the baseball game or bowling."
Who in the bloody hell does that? Seriously, the people that do such a thing need to have their reproductive organs clipped.
Post by: xanrastafari on November 29, 2006, 04:11:47 PM
Stop complaining so much and take a second and look at the competition. Look at how other companies act. It's not arrogance, it's the pressures of getting a system out at a time when it will still be competitive. Of course there won't be 5 amazing games at launch. That does not happen. And I think your dismissal of Ubi Soft is a little... stupid. Unlike EA, they have a history of releasing games exclusively for individual systems, at least initially, and they've done so on the Wii. Furthermore, big Japanese publishers ARE developing games for the Wii, which they were NOT doing for the GameCube, especially at this point in the game. The few that did make games for the cube were more or less bought - see Capcom making Zelda games and Square making Mario Sports games.
And frankly, porting games to the VC isn't an instantaneous process - see the YEARS it took people to concoct emulators for PC. While of course it's easier with the original code and additional system specs, it's not like Nintendo snaps their fingers and the games appear. In addition, I found the prices quite reasonable, and was quite happy to spend 5 dollars to pick up the original Legend of Zelda, which I'd never gotten to play to that point in time. If it seems too steep for you, by all means, don't buy it!
In conclusion, you're wrong.
Post by: Blue Plant on November 29, 2006, 04:31:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: xanrastafari
In conclusion, you're wrong.
*applauds* :3
Post by: Ceric on November 29, 2006, 04:48:48 PM
Post by: Strell on November 29, 2006, 04:48:55 PM
I stopped reading after that. I feel I can get better opinions out of a herd of wild geese during mating season.
Post by: WuTangTurtle on November 29, 2006, 07:28:47 PM
Post by: Galford on November 30, 2006, 12:56:46 AM
My comment about price was to illustrate the fact there are cheaper ways to get VC games, some legal.
Look at the recent Sega Genesis Colllection for the PS2. Price what it would take to download all those games for the VC.
If you own a PS2 the collection is $20. I don't expect Nintendo to give VC games away but they have aways to go before
I feel they are truelly competative.
I would love to play Seiken Densetsu 3 legally, but until someone releases it legally I'm kinda stuck.
Also pirates are the reason why we are seeing reteo game releases and things like the VC in general.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 30, 2006, 03:02:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane They've got about the same level of third party support at launch as they did with the Cube.
B-b-b-b-b-BULLSH*T!
Did you miss this thread?
Did Disney open a new studio just for the GC?
Did Ubisoft believe that they could become the #1 3rd party publisher by heavily supporting the GC?
Did Square promise DQ and FF games for the GC before it even released?
And when the hell did Banco promise 30 titles for the GC?
You can sit there and be a curmudgeon all you damn well please and bash a console you don't even own, but don't go spouting gross inaccuracies like saying the Wii and the Cube have anywhere NEAR the same level of 3rd party support.
The amount of 3rd party support the Wii was seeing BEFORE LAUNCH almost already outweighs the 3rd party support the cube saw over its entire lifespan. Any 3rd party support Nintendo saw for the cube was support they earned by basically giving the business version of sexual favors to 3rd parties.
This time, 3rd parties are flocking to them without Nintendo having to solicit their aid beforehand. That much alone speaks volumes about how much better the 3rd party support will be for the Wii than it was for the cube.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 30, 2006, 03:53:19 AM
I am concerned about one thing, though...Reggie thinks Wario Ware, Mario Party and Wii Play is a good lineup for the first quarter? Yikes...what happened to Metroid, Mario, Batallion Wars and Super Mario Strikers? And he confirms that Nintendo thinks it can get away with Virtual Console games during the dry spells...strongly disagreed. I don't think this will kill the system, but it's going to make things harder than they have to be.
Post by: Arbok on November 30, 2006, 04:29:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
...but don't go spouting gross inaccuracies like saying the Wii and the Cube have anywhere NEAR the same level of 3rd party support.
Generally this is right, and you don't have to look any further than the launch line up, which was 20 games versus the GCN's 12, with some of those being Dreamcast ports.
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I am concerned about one thing, though...Reggie thinks Wario Ware, Mario Party and Wii Play is a good lineup for the first quarter? Yikes...what happened to Metroid, Mario, Batallion Wars and Super Mario Strikers? And he confirms that Nintendo thinks it can get away with Virtual Console games during the dry spells...strongly disagreed. I don't think this will kill the system, but it's going to make things harder than they have to be.
According to sales data, I don't think he is out of touch with placing Mario Party there, even if most hardcores have moved past the series now (still only ever bought the first one for the N64). I do agree though that supporting the Virtual Console better during dry spells is a pretty poor solution, as there shouldn't be any game wise droughts to begin with to even spin the situation like that if everything was going well.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 30, 2006, 05:04:12 AM
Well I'll agree with that. Not that the competition was even competent in their launches but Nintendo still did do the best job.
Let's put it this way. Nintendo traditionally has been a very arrogant company. Reggie is saying they can't be and I'm rolling my eyes because Reggie says a lot of stuff that Nintendo doesn't actually do. While there aren't exactly huge examples of Nintendo arrogance in the Wii so far I don't see a big shift to suggest that Nintendo has changed. I'm making the assumption from how they're handling the VC that Nintendo is still the same as they ever were.
My comment was less about Nintendo arrogance and more about Reggie saying something that I know doens't actually ring true. The guy has no cred with me anymore but it isn't his fault. He has good ideas in theory but the company he works for doesn't allow those ideas to be executed.
Regarding Wii third party support vague promises from companies like Square Enix don't mean squat until you see what they actually have in store. Technically SE supported the Cube but their support sucked: one game that wasn't very good. From what I see having been revealed and having been released I don't see anything that much better than what the Cube had down the pipeline at this point in time. I remember everyone getting excited about the potential third party support for the Cube as well and the intial Cube support was not as horrible as it eventually became. But I want to see what is actually in the works first. Non-specific support annoucements burned me on the Cube so I'm going to be more cautious on the Wii.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 30, 2006, 05:58:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane Regarding Wii third party support vague promises from companies like Square Enix don't mean squat until you see what they actually have in store. Technically SE supported the Cube but their support sucked: one game that wasn't very good. From what I see having been revealed and having been released I don't see anything that much better than what the Cube had down the pipeline at this point in time. I remember everyone getting excited about the potential third party support for the Cube as well and the intial Cube support was not as horrible as it eventually became. But I want to see what is actually in the works first. Non-specific support annoucements burned me on the Cube so I'm going to be more cautious on the Wii.
The only thing ever "promised" on the cube was the infamous Capcom 5 and we all know how well that turned out.
Personally, I don't remember anyone getting excited about 3rd party support on the cube. It was the Nintendo games people were always looking forward to the most, but with the Wii launch already proving that 3rd party titles sell like hotcakes on the system, I think it's safe to say that Wii 3rd party support will be FAR better than that of the cube.
Also, SE didn't support the cube: Iwata begged them for support and Yamauchi actually footed the bill for FF:CC to be made. Same with MGS:TS. That's not really support so much as striking a bargain.
This time around, Nintendo is receiving the support without needing to strike a bargain with the company beforehand. Nintendo didn't bargain for FFIII on the DS, nor did they bargain for the FFXII sequel ALSO coming to the DS. Square goes with the most popular console, and when the Wii stomps the PS3 sales in Japan in two days, we're going to rapidly see which console that is.
And again, the amount of 3rd party enthusiasm being shown for the Wii is light years ahead of the best the GC EVER saw.
Disney starting a development house specifically for the Wii? No one even came CLOSE to doing that for the GC. In fact, companies were hesitant to support the cube from the start.
Ubi banking on the Wii as their road to #1 3rd party publisher? I know that's overly ambitious, but Ubisoft has been around for a while and survived long enough that they know how to handle this market. No company, before or after the GC's launch, EVER showed this much enthusiasm for it. No one ever looked at the GC and said, "THAT is our ticket to success!"
And Nintendo's biggest ace in the hole comes from the fact that they are the de facto winner in Japan. The DS still sells 150,000 units every week over there and with more 3rd parties axing support for the PS3 every day, that just leaves the Wii and the 360, and considering the piss-poor adoption rate of the 360, that leaves the Wii by f*cking default.
When the Wii explodes in Japan in two days (and it will), it will only serve to further enforce the fact that Nintendo is the only option for Japanese development.
Don't get me wrong: none of this would be possible without Sony's incessant bungling with the handling of the PSP and PS3, but the fact is, they've bungled it and Nintendo stands to snatch up the lion's share of the market simply because Japan is only a battle between Sony and Nintendo.
If Sony can't even get their sh*t together long enough to produce enough consoles to create a user base, why would any 3rd party in their right mind support them?
Post by: couchmonkey on November 30, 2006, 07:07:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
My comment was less about Nintendo arrogance and more about Reggie saying something that I know doens't actually ring true. The guy has no cred with me anymore but it isn't his fault. He has good ideas in theory but the company he works for doesn't allow those ideas to be executed.
Technically it is his fault for promising stuff when he knows his bosses may say no. I'm fond of Reggie, as marketers go, but he's still a marketer, he's still saying what the audience needs to hear, he just has a way of making it sound like he's being really open and honest.
Mario Party 8 probably will be a hit, but it's not out until March and just pretending for a second that there's no third party support...that would be three games in three months, that's N64-bad. Still, I have quite a bit of hope for the third parties. If they can bring a bunch more game to the table it will be okay.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 30, 2006, 07:21:43 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 30, 2006, 08:41:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey Still, I have quite a bit of hope for the third parties. If they can bring a bunch more game to the table it will be okay.
There are supposed to be 62 Wii games out by the end of this year, I believe.
That should be enough to tide most people over until MP8 arrives.
Post by: vudu on November 30, 2006, 08:46:28 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 30, 2006, 08:51:45 AM
Also, I expect 90% of them to be ports, but if we have 10 excellent and fun games, it's still 10 more than the PS3 and 9 more than the 360 (I'm counting Gears).
EDIT: Found it.
Launch lineup: Nintendo has promised 62 titles before year's end, even though about 30 of those are classic games from previous platforms available for download on the Virtual Console. Regardless, it's still a hefty launch lineup (compare that to Xbox 360's 18 titles last year). Meanwhile, Sony has promised 21 titles for the launch. Sorry, but new or old, Nintendo's got game in the launch titles department.
Looks like they're counting VC games in that number, but that still leaves it at 32 games before the end of the year and that ain't a bad day's work, either.
Post by: Ceric on November 30, 2006, 09:12:15 AM
Post by: Kairon on November 30, 2006, 10:28:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkeyQuote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
My comment was less about Nintendo arrogance and more about Reggie saying something that I know doens't actually ring true. The guy has no cred with me anymore but it isn't his fault. He has good ideas in theory but the company he works for doesn't allow those ideas to be executed.
Technically it is his fault for promising stuff when he knows his bosses may say no. I'm fond of Reggie, as marketers go, but he's still a marketer, he's still saying what the audience needs to hear, he just has a way of making it sound like he's being really open and honest.
Mario Party 8 probably will be a hit, but it's not out until March and just pretending for a second that there's no third party support...that would be three games in three months, that's N64-bad. Still, I have quite a bit of hope for the third parties. If they can bring a bunch more game to the table it will be okay.
Yeah, Reggie is still PR. Don't let his piercing eyes and manly jaw fool you Ian, Reggie (and Iwata, even) are willing to do the marketting dance as well as Sony and MS now.
Oh, and will Mario Party 8 be online?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on November 30, 2006, 10:29:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I personally expect Metroid Prime 3 to literally blow Zelda out of the water Graphics and Environment wise. I'll be disappointed otherwise. Thats a tall order right their.
Wow, you must have very little faith in Retro if you don't think they can outdo GC graphics.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ceric on November 30, 2006, 11:46:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I personally expect Metroid Prime 3 to literally blow Zelda out of the water Graphics and Environment wise. I'll be disappointed otherwise. Thats a tall order right their.
Wow, you must have very little faith in Retro if you don't think they can outdo GC graphics.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I like to stop this right now. Frankly TP looks better then almost every other game out their that I've seen. Including ALL of the next gen titles. It has an art style it sticks with it and it is truly impressive. Now go on and tell me that Gear of War vastly surpasses it in realism. I agree. Gear of War has an Art Style and it does it Really well as well.
I hate this mentality that just because TP was originally a GC game and that even as a GC game that by virtue or the better hardware poof things should magically look better. They don't. People never really pushed the Cube to it's limit. Not even Nintendo. TP is a good example of that pushing and it shows that GC can surpass the X-Box in every way. That the Wii in a First Gen Title can compete with the HD Machines.
So to simplify things:
Quote
I personally expect Metroid Prime 3 to literally blow Zelda out of the water Graphics and Environment wise.
They have gotten the extra development time. The last time I saw the game running I can say it couldn't really hold a candle to TP at the end of the day. I expect this to change. No I don't have faith in Retro. MP in most regards looked better then MP2. More care was taken. As a complete graphical and environmental packages MP3 will have big shoes to fill.
PS- Also after RE4 there wasn't another Cube game to step there graphics up to that.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 30, 2006, 11:58:00 AM
Post by: Kairon on November 30, 2006, 12:32:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I personally expect Metroid Prime 3 to literally blow Zelda out of the water Graphics and Environment wise. I'll be disappointed otherwise. Thats a tall order right their.
Wow, you must have very little faith in Retro if you don't think they can outdo GC graphics.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Deadpan humor for the lose.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 30, 2006, 12:36:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
STUFF.
STOP. You're jumping to too many conclusions without stating your assumptions for standards of visual judgement. The comparisons are weak, and there's no considerations to the nature of each game's respective play style WHICH HAS A MASSIVE EFFECT on the available system resources dedicated to visuals.
You're being enchanted by the art style and the presentation, yet you're taking those as signs of technical prowess.
RE4 and MP2 pushed the Cube to its limits, in different ways. Not one game could do "everything" because they involved sacrifices in resources. Take advantage of some features over other features, but not ALL of them at the same time. If all were used at the same time, the overall result will come up short compared to maximizing a set of features while not using others.
TP pushes the Cube the way RE4 pushes the Cube. StarFox Adventures pushed the Cube in its own way, but regularly failed.
MP2 looks better than MP1.
Wake up.
Post by: Kairon on November 30, 2006, 12:45:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
STUFF.
STOP. You're jumping to too many conclusions without stating your assumptions for standards of visual judgement. The comparisons are weak, and there's no considerations to the nature of each game's respective play style WHICH HAS A MASSIVE EFFECT on the available system resources dedicated to visuals.
You're being enchanted by the art style and the presentation, yet you're taking those as signs of technical prowess.
RE4 and MP2 pushed the Cube to its limits, in different ways. Not one game could do "everything" because they involved sacrifices in resources. Take advantage of some features over other features, but not ALL of them at the same time. If all were used at the same time, the overall result will come up short compared to maximizing a set of features while not using others.
TP pushes the Cube the way RE4 pushes the Cube. StarFox Adventures pushed the Cube in its own way, but regularly failed.
MP2 looks better than MP1.
Wake up.
QFT. Thank's for that.
If you're gonna talk about graphics, talk about graphics. If you're gonna talk about artistic achievement, then talk about that. But choose please!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 30, 2006, 01:15:19 PM
On a topic with so many variables, our judgements must have clear perspectives.
Post by: Ceric on November 30, 2006, 04:29:14 PM
I'm sorry but MP2 had it moments but overall what I played of it really didn't look better then the original because it came out dark. I'll go back to it later and tweak more settings now that it won't blow up on me.
Actually thanks Pro for making my argument. I been trying for a while it didn't work but you have it.
Post by: wandering on November 30, 2006, 04:42:24 PM
Quote
StarFox Adventures pushed the Cube in its own way, but regularly failed.
It didn't fail. It just took advantage of some features over other features. Other features like a consistent framerate.
Post by: Ceric on November 30, 2006, 05:35:14 PM
Post by: Galford on December 01, 2006, 02:59:19 AM
screwing up then Nintendo getting it right.
The real test for the Wii will come when Halo 3 and MGS 4 are released a year from now.
Both of those games are system sellers and have graphics that can't be reproduced on the Wii.
In Japan the test is going to come when FF13 comes out.
If the Wii can weather those storms, it will do well this generation.
If it doesn't expect GC levels of third party support.
It's just too early to tell how this generation is going to go.
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 01, 2006, 05:05:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I'm sorry but MP2 had it moments but overall what I played of it really didn't look better then the original because it came out dark. I'll go back to it later and tweak more settings now that it won't blow up on me.
I thought the graphics in MP2 were nicer, but I quit on the game due to the backtracking.
Every time I came across another door, rock, barrier, etc. that I couldn't yet destroy, it made me further depressed because I knew I'd have to come back for it at some point later, and the fact that Samus moved as slow as a tank made that all the more irritating.
I'm hoping MP3 will utilize some more gameplay elements other than backtracking. I don't mind SOME backtracking, but when you have two gigantic worlds (light and dark) to explore and every other room has another barrier you cannot pass through, it rapidly becomes depressing to the point where I didn't want to play anymore.
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 01, 2006, 06:04:45 AM
I mean, it's not like the biggest 3rd party developer in the world dedicating a studio to your console will help save Nintendo from the torrent of suck and fail it inevitably faces, right?
Post by: Svevan on December 01, 2006, 08:09:37 AM
Post by: Caliban on December 01, 2006, 08:19:43 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 01, 2006, 08:33:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan I'm sure yearly golf games are exactly what Nintendo needs to stay afloat this generation.
Explain to me how not having them helps.
Besides, I've heard that EA plans on having some Wii-exclusives in the mix because of this new dev house. I don't know if they could pull off another game with Madden's regular selling power, but the fact the potential even exists at all speaks volumes about how far Nintendo has come in terms of 3rd party support.
In addition, sports games are a natural fit for the Wiimote and the fact that EA chose to do this indicates that they understand this as well.
Post by: SixthAngel on December 01, 2006, 08:38:38 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on December 01, 2006, 08:45:50 AM
Post by: SixthAngel on December 01, 2006, 08:52:27 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on December 01, 2006, 09:06:31 AM
Post by: Svevan on December 01, 2006, 10:13:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Svevan I'm sure yearly golf games are exactly what Nintendo needs to stay afloat this generation.
Explain to me how not having them helps.
Never said that. You said, sarcastically:
Quote
I mean, it's not like the biggest 3rd party developer in the world dedicating a studio to your console will help save Nintendo from the torrent of suck and fail it inevitably faces, right?
Inversely, your meaning is "The biggest 3rd party developer in the world dedicating a studio to Wii will help save Nintendo from the torrent of suck and fail it inevitably faces."
Sorry, I disagree with that. This indicates good third party support, but EA's been supporting Nintendo forever (very few exclusives, but support nonetheless). Headgate Studios new Wii focus bodes well for Nintendo, sure, but the nature of the games they make negates the potential value of "the biggest third party developer in the world" making exclusives for Wii. These will be golf games, which may expand Nintendo's audience a small amount, but alone will do very little for Nintendo's overall success. Even combined with the Disney studio in Salt Lake announcement, I don't think this means a turnaround for Nintendo's supposed "third party domination." There are too many third parties (big ones, like Konami, Square, Capcom, etc) who have yet to approach Wii with full devotion.
I'm not pretending this isn't good news. I just don't think golf games = Instant Nintendo Success. What if Wii becomes a sports only system? I'll abandon that ship as soon as it docks.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on December 01, 2006, 11:31:23 AM
MP2 has more effects than MP1, including a good deal of cel-shading type effects being used on Dark Aether. Some of the bosses are also far more complex in modeling and animation than anything seen in MP1. From a technical standpoint, MP2 is definitely an improvement over the original. Retro pushed the GameCube hardware like almost no one else, which is why the MP3 demo from E3 was a visual disappointment. I think they will use the delay to significantly ramp up the visuals to take advantage of everything Wii can do. In fact, I will go so far as to predict that MP3 will be the first Wii game to look dramatically different from GameCube games. (I think Mario Galaxy may be released earlier, but I don't think it's a big jump over Sunshine's graphics, which were great to begin with, and I don't think NCL-Tokyo is going to make any changes to the graphical quality between last E3 and the game's release.)
Post by: IceCold on December 01, 2006, 05:17:47 PM
QuoteIf I hear that ONE more time
Nintendo does have more 3rd party support then the GC did, that can be accounted to Sony and MS
screwing up then Nintendo getting it right.
Jonny, from what I've seen, Galaxy is a huge step above Sunshine's graphics, especially looking at the textures. I think Sunshine ..shone most when it came to draw distance - that and the water effects were just incredible. I spent hours playing with and in the water, or getting to the highest point in the level and looking down..
Post by: Kairon on December 02, 2006, 04:09:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
Headgate Studios new Wii focus bodes well for Nintendo, sure, but the nature of the games they make negates the potential value of "the biggest third party developer in the world" making exclusives for Wii.
Will EA make the next Wii Sports? I'm not about to rule out the possibility that EA is looking to tap into the casual and non-gamer mass market for massive profits and massive market expansion.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
