Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 25, 2006, 12:09:29 PM
The Wii controls are a mixed bag but I think the positives far outweigh the negatives and I cannot see playing this on GC, especially when it pertains to aiming which is intuitive. I'm not yet sold on the sword fighting being controlled by swinging the remote, but I can't say it has been a pain to do, just doesn't seem any better than button presses.
Finally the story so far is great, it has a mixture of tons of different emotions and reminds me quite a bit of Wind Waker when it comes to the characters and story depth. From what I hear it gets even more complex as you trudge through it, and personally I cannot wait.
In conclusion I'm still not far enough to rank it in comparison to the other Zeldas, but I know that Gamespot's review was full of crap. This game is definately a gem, whether it shines brighter than OOT, Wind Waker or even LTTP though remains to be seen.
Post by: Pikachelsea on November 25, 2006, 12:35:44 PM
Also, I really love playing as wolf Link. His sound effects, animations, abilities and speed are just great.
Riding Epona is better than ever. It is SO much more fun (IMHO, anyway) to ride that dang horse than to sail the boat in Wind Waker. Little details like the way Link kicks the stirrups to Epona's sides to get her going, and how she shies when you do a sudden turn-around all add to the feel of riding a horse. Riding around Hyrule field on Epona and horseback combat both rule (if a little tiresome with the constant remote-jiggling).
Sites like IGN sure did a lot of whining about the lack of orchestrated music and voice-acting... personally, I think the music sounds great and I don't want voice-acting in Zelda. Shoddy voice-acting has ruined the atmosphere of many other otherwise good games. Mario and Link are two characters who simply should never talk (outside of their "Woo-hoo!"s and "YAAAHH" attack sounds), and neither should the inhabitants of their respective worlds.
Haven't found the game TOO hard yet (I only recently got killed a couple times by some Shadow Beings), but tough enough that it's rewarding to figure it out on your own.
Oh, and I'm currently trying to decide if Ooccoo and Ooccoo Jr. weird me out more than Tingle. So random!
Post by: Caliban on November 25, 2006, 01:30:09 PM
Even though this game is not graphically stunning, because we know it is basically a GC port, I think that the environments, characters, and dungeons are so well crafted and detailed that it would be unfair if we were to criticize it just for how its textures look, heck why even compare it to the 360 or PS3 games if they are in a different league of their own. Then you have to factor in the immensity of this game, it is just huge, and by my judgment I would say that it might be 5+ times bigger than OoT.
When it comes to gameplay, I think everything works perfectly except when Link uses his sword for ground combat, it does work perfectly well in other fighting situations. The Wolf mechanics were quite useful too and definately part of the overall gameplay and not just some added gimmicky gameplay feature.
The puzzle-solving dificulty can vary from person to person but they surely are more intricate than in OoT, its like in every single dungeon room (be it small or big) there was something to solve.
As for story and the emotions conveyed by the charcters in cutscenes were suberb, however at a certain point I think it just went low in quality and it just seemed rushed and left me with many questions to what was happening, that's why I want to discuss it in the spoilers thread lol.
Oh, just one grievance, why oh why and how many times did I get notified of picking up a rupee that I already have picked up somewhere else.
Is it the best Zelda until now, I think that is a matter of personal preference, to me Zelda II will always be the best, however I will say that to me TP is in 2nd place of all Zelda games.
Post by: Edfishy on November 25, 2006, 01:31:10 PM
I'd buy it.
Post by: Caliban on November 25, 2006, 01:38:13 PM
Post by: Edfishy on November 25, 2006, 02:37:33 PM
Quote
You know there actually is a joke in TP about Link being speechless lol, for a good reason might I say.
As I recall they poke fun of the fact that Mario doesn't speak in Super Mario RPG as well.
Someday, it would be nice if voice recognition software were a standard, and Nintendo would make some sort of a fun "Brain Age" like game where you train up the voice recognition software and have fun at the same time. With the result being games where you need to talk out the different responses you can give to character NPC's.
So for example, you get near an NPC character... let's say Tingle in a Zelda game.
An arrow appears above Tingle that says, "Hello".
You then say, "Hello" to essentially do the same thing as pressing the A button, but you'll feel a little more immersed in the game.
Tingle then says his peace and you have a series of responses you can say to him, no different from games today.
Just start talking out the response and the text will light up appropriately for the words you've already spoken.
To cancel saying a response, simply say something fancy, like, "Errrr...", and it goes back to the series of responses.
Say, "Never mind", and Tingle says good bye.
Oh, someday in the near future.
Post by: King of Twitch on November 25, 2006, 02:58:19 PM
The rupee reminders bugged me; on the other hand, I like how they get placed back into chests if your wallet is full
Controls are fine for me, it's much more fun to me than pressing buttons. You can cut grass WHILE running? Manually move the map around? revolution.
The music remixes and village designs are just OK, the original music is good. The natural environments make up for whatever graphical shortcomings you can poke at.
*I just finished learning the sumo wrestling skill so my opinion could change
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 25, 2006, 03:03:48 PM
Post by: MarioAllStar on November 25, 2006, 03:14:42 PM
"Do you want to retry?" No.
"Return to title screen?" Yes.
Oh look, it didn't save! Why in the world did it not ask me to save?!
Aside from that, this is an awesome game. I can make a few nitpicky complaints however. The frequent reloading in Hyrule Castle Town is annoying. The "you got a rupee" messages are a little bit annoying, but luckily only come once for each rupee type during a given gameplay session. The collection of tears is not a very fun process (it is feels like too much of a collect-a-thon for me). Finally, controlling Epona can be a little bit clunky when you back into corners or come to a little ledge. It is a pain to stop and readjust her position and then start going again, especially while you are being attacked.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 25, 2006, 03:28:22 PM
Ever since OoT capture my imagination, I've always expect any Zelda game to leave an emotional impact within me. OoT, as I mentioned, captured my heart, Link's awakening charmed its way into my mind and Majora's mask scared me. The streak ended with Wind waker. I admit it was good, but the story felt rushed and it lacked that emotional impact the other games had.
Would you say the game creates an unforgettable experience that creates a deep emotional impact? I know this is a suggestive question, but I expect TP to be at least unforgettable.
Post by: Famicom on November 25, 2006, 05:43:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Would you say the game creates an unforgettable experience that creates a deep emotional impact? I know this is a suggestive question, but I expect TP to be at least unforgettable.
Yes. Midna is a character to be remembered for all time.
Anyways, I'm 50 hours into the game (haven't beaten it yet still!), and I think at this point I'd score it an 8.8.
j/kFrom the internet impressions I was expecting ridiculous (in a good way) dungeons that were grueling and torturous but with easy bosses, yet the game feels kinda easy all around. I think the remixed dungeons in OoT Master Quest provided a greater challenge, but that could've been my OoT memory conflicting with the new puzzle layouts. Either way it's still more of a challenge than Wind Waker, but I've only scratched my head in dungeons twice, and only once was it related to a puzzle (the other was skipping through a new weapons usage too quickly and not knowing how to use it). You learn all kinds of kickass sword tactics early, but many of them aren't even necessary to use until late in the game. Sworded enemies with better combat abilities should've appeared earlier in the game.
The storyline however, I feel is the most impressive of any Zelda game to date. The cinematics are absolutely outstanding. Old characters and locations are used in new and inventive ways, and new characters seem very well fleshed out and active. The people in from your village play a much larger role than I ever would've expected. I'm also very much enjoying the references to past Zelda games (unlike certain reviewers).
The gameplay is also IMO a flawless experience. I haven't experienced any problems with sword wielding/swinging in battle like some reviews have mentioned, and there are areas of the game that I can't imagine would be nearly as fun as they are without the wiimote, like horseback battles. The later dungeons are extremely cool and inventive in theme and design. Though HONESTLY I could do without a certain unexpected puzzle in a certain sacred place. Collectibles seem to be toeing the line of 'excessive', but it's not a dealbreaker for me.
Overall I'm very pleased, and I believe this is the perfect game for any OoT/MM fan looking for a spiritual successor to those games. I'm hoping Nintendo's next effort will be something completely original from top to bottom though, outside of a small few signature items (i.e Master Sword, Boomerang, etc.). 9.6 for me.
Post by: Blue Plant on November 25, 2006, 05:43:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64 Would you say the game creates an unforgettable experience that creates a deep emotional impact? I know this is a suggestive question, but I expect TP to be at least unforgettable.
Yes. Completely so. The characters and plots in this Zelda are very top tier in their development. So far (currently about 20 hours into it) and it's surpassed my expectations above and beyond.
Post by: TrueNerd on November 25, 2006, 06:00:59 PM
2) Dungeons have always been my favorite parts of Zelda games and thus far, I am thoroughly impressed with the dungeon design. Every room has a puzzle or something to do. I love it.
3) The stuff that takes place in between dungeons is, easily, the best the series has seen. In previous Zelda games, these segments would bore me at times, but here they have been nothing but thrilling. And the variety! The carriage escort mission was pulse-pounding fun. Zelda usually doesn't do that until boss fights, and I've already seen that a few times outside of boss fights.
Post by: Zach on November 25, 2006, 07:20:23 PM
QuoteI know exactly what your talking about, that particular puzzle just threw me off. Its like they force you to solve a rubix cube to get a VERY IMPORTANT item (Ok, its not as difficult as a rubix cube, but its still the same tedious feeling).
Originally posted by: Famicom
Though HONESTLY I could do without a certain unexpected puzzle in a certain sacred place.
I am currently in the sixth dungeon, and having lots of fun, Twilight Princess definately lives up to the Zelda name, and then some.
I agree with people that the sword controls do not really add to the gameplay, but that doesnt mean they are not fun, especially when you learn new skills later in the game.
Post by: wandering on November 26, 2006, 12:29:01 AM
Oh, everything else about the game is great, too. I'm about nine and a half hours in (just started the second dungeon), and I can already say this is the best Zelda game I've played since Ocarina of Time.
Post by: Caterkiller on November 26, 2006, 05:52:11 AM
Playing as the wolf is so FUN for me! Befor I actualy got to play as Wolf Link, I really could care less about it, I saw the gameplay videos and it just did not look very fun. I enjoy chasing scents, bitting and ripping at enemies, its a blast for me! Probably because when I was younger I always pretended to be a dog or something.
I absolutely love the sword fighting! At the start, I could not help but want to press A for it, and every now and then my sword strike wouldn't seem to read on the controller. But after a while, especialy after the 2nd boss, I get so into it, im slashing away like im doing saber techniques in my wu shu class. Then it kind of hit me that the game reads the bigger and faster movements of the remote alot better, well at least the faster ones. And so when it comes to any boss fight or a huge group of strong enemies I get really into it, and it feels very satisfying.
As far as aiming goes, everything has been said. If you prefer the old way, then man... thats it nothing more to say.
I've only gone through 4 temples. And each new boss I get to(though easy) is an absolute blast! I found a weapon that I would have never thought would have appeared in a Zelda title, and the way it was used to fight the boss gave me such a rush! I am so glad I stayed away from spoilers!
The animations are so well done! They don't speak but their actions and lips really bring them to life. The way the characters move around and act in cut scenes in this game was how I thought WW was going to be.
I am in love with the story so far, their are humerous moments, scary ones, sad ones, and it really has me caring about the characters! Even more so than Anju and Kefie(or what ever their names were) in MM.
I've done a few small side quests almost nothing so far, and nothing has dissapointed me yet.
Aside from no free moving camera, and Links running animation, I am extreemly satisfied!
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 26, 2006, 06:49:49 AM
The puzzles seem a bit harder and outside the box this time but that's a welcome change.
Also, wolf Link kicks serious ass. The wolf form makes his normal self look weak and pitiful.
And Midna is a dead-ringer for Ed from Cowboy Bebop. Her mannerisms reminded me of Ed when I first saw her and Cap said the same thing without my prompting.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 26, 2006, 06:58:03 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 26, 2006, 07:08:49 AM
And Bill, what about Majora's mask? I thought Link's interaction with the NPCs was great and even downright touching. It made me want to meet all of them and fulfill their desires.
Post by: TMW on November 26, 2006, 07:46:27 AM
Every now and then, you come across a piece of music that has just the right key, the right choral structure, the right....everything. And the farther you get into the song, the more you realize the composer is doing everything just right...
Thats kinda how I feel about this game. The further I get in it...the more I feel they couldn't have made it much better, if any at all. Character designs, puzzles, music, plot, atmostphere....everything just clicks.
I'd say the game has lived up to the hype wonderfully. The only problem I have is that I can't play it while I'm at work.
Well, and the "You got 10 rupees". all the time. I could do without that too.
Post by: SixthAngel on November 26, 2006, 10:26:43 AM
I didn't start loving it until the first dungeon though, it has to build a bit.
Post by: Ceric on November 26, 2006, 01:13:11 PM
Overall I felt that the whole game at the moment is just easy. The only true challenge was a part on the Fire temple and there was a treasure chest that you just can't seem to get at the last magnet crane.
Also its very linear. It might change but I always compare all the Zelda games to the very original when it's part of the "Main" Series, (Lttp is, while Link Awakening really isn't). If it doesn't let me do things in the order I want to and just goes from one to another then I don't think it really is as true to the series as it could be. Though not to say its bad. I do enjoy the game so far I just wish it was less linear. Also the Dungeons seem a little short in there own way. As I said I do like the game. (Also once I figured out Women-Chicken she rocks.)
Post by: Artimus on November 26, 2006, 01:26:58 PM
Post by: MarioAllStar on November 26, 2006, 01:27:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Also its very linear. It might change but I always compare all the Zelda games to the very original when it's part of the "Main" Series, (Lttp is, while Link Awakening really isn't). If it doesn't let me do things in the order I want to and just goes from one to another then I don't think it really is as true to the series as it could be. Though not to say its bad. I do enjoy the game so far I just wish it was less linear.
I would say that the original Legend of Zelda was too free-roaming--at least for today's standards. In an overworld the size of Twlight Princess, that level of freedom would be horribly confusing. I personally had not thought about the linear nature of TP until reading your post, but I suppose it is fairly linear. However, I do not think that the game hadicaps exploration too much.
One point that I forgot to mention is how much I love the expressions people have in this game. After I heard that Twilight Princess would run on a modified Wind Waker engine, I did not think that the emotion the bug-eyed Link from Wind Waker showed would translate into a more realistic Zelda title. (Did Nintendo coin a term for this "technology"?) I am glad to say that the characters (even wolf Link) have very realistic facial expressions. Just look at Link's face when you get the "found a rupee" message. The art style of this game, coupled with realistic expressions and movements, provide this game with much more personality than a polygon count alone ever could.
Post by: Ceric on November 26, 2006, 01:36:39 PM
I do like the art style a lot. I like how the Twilight world is different. I like the influence that Windwaker had on the art direction and enemy destruction. Yeah I could see how making the game less linear would be confusing though.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 26, 2006, 01:44:27 PM
Post by: Ceric on November 26, 2006, 02:24:17 PM
I hate Horse Combat with a Passion Now. TERRIBLE Implementation. I also despise all escort Missions no matter what the game for the most part.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 03, 2006, 09:53:43 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 03, 2006, 09:56:38 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 03, 2006, 10:00:31 PM
Post by: Nick DiMola on December 03, 2006, 11:50:10 PM
I would say my only complaint with the game is the movement away from the heavy sword fighting that Wind Waker had. I loved the fighting mechanics of Wind Waker and I think TP carries the mechanics over well but lacks alot of great sword fighting like in Hyrule Castle in Wind Waker. But this complaint is minor and it gives Wind Waker something that none of the other Zeldas had.
Post by: BigJim on December 03, 2006, 11:57:25 PM
If the 60 hour thing is true, I'm only a 3rd of the way through even though events thus far have been extensive and fulfilling enough that it feels like it's closer to winding down than it actually is. They've mastered the goal/success/payoff formula. Weapons aren't just stumbled across; you do something significant to get them. Though there have been mini quests or sorts, they aren't the time-wasters that WW felt bloated with. They're actually relevant.
I still instinctively press A sometimes to swing the sword. The sword swinging in general was a little annoying at first, but I've compensated for that quarter/half second delay by swinging a little earlier, and I don't really even think about it anymore. The Wiimote aiming isn't immersive; it actually pulls me out of the game because Navi is often off-screen and I have to mind the wiimote and the sensor bar rather than stay absorbed. Controlling Epona is also a handful. So there are some tweaks to improve on. I can't help but wonder how perfect the GameCube version feels, actually.
Best Zelda ever? I don't know yet. I'll always have a strong attachment to OOT, but it's up there as a formidable sequel in sheer size, story, and cinematics.
Post by: MilkManX on December 04, 2006, 01:46:45 AM
Post by: matt oz on December 04, 2006, 02:48:12 AM
Especially in the second dungeon, I kept falling off every ledge, because the camera was askew by just a few degrees. Also, when I'm riding my horse, I keep getting stuck in small areas because I can't see a large enough area around myself.
Post by: ryancoke on December 04, 2006, 02:50:27 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 04, 2006, 03:25:47 AM
As for the game, absolutely crushes WW in every way imaginable, except that the bosses are insanely easy.
When Famitsu said that the game was too hard, it must be because the puzzles actually require, you know, THINKING, instead of being able to level grind high enough to roll over the random monster encounters in your way.
Though easy, the game was still satisfying and a lot of fun to play with the best storyline I've seen in a Zelda game to date.
And Midna is friggin' adorable...
Post by: ryancoke on December 04, 2006, 04:17:27 AM
I'm just a little ways into the Gorons' Mine and I'm freakin lovin it. I'm not too impressed with the sumo wrestling. I find that aspect a little tedious and annoying but otherwise, it's a 10/10 game fo sho.
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 04, 2006, 04:38:52 AM
And yeah, it made for a lacking minigame, really.
Post by: Nick DiMola on December 04, 2006, 04:59:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
No problem.
And yeah, it made for a lacking minigame, really.
Are you kidding me? Smacking people across the face is amazing!
But yeah, it actually wasn't anything special.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 04, 2006, 09:47:43 AM
Post by: BigJim on December 04, 2006, 10:15:43 AM
Post by: ThePerm on December 04, 2006, 10:32:06 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on December 04, 2006, 10:43:48 AM
Post by: ThePerm on December 04, 2006, 10:47:06 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 04, 2006, 10:57:57 AM
Post by: Nick DiMola on December 04, 2006, 12:11:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
One thing I liked about the Rupee thing is if you could not hold anymore it would put it back in the chest so it won't go to waste!
This was a very nice surprise. I always hated finding chests and wasting the rupees. At least now I can reenter dungeons and collect. The whole reading off what you pick up every time is unbelievably annoying. It was definitely the first annoying thing in the game I noticed.
Post by: matt oz on December 04, 2006, 12:48:52 PM
Post by: Svevan on December 04, 2006, 01:11:23 PM
Post by: Svevan on December 04, 2006, 01:14:36 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on December 04, 2006, 01:45:30 PM
Post by: matt oz on December 04, 2006, 03:26:23 PM
Post by: IceCold on December 04, 2006, 03:34:11 PM
QuoteMajora's Mask!
Has there ever been a game with decent swimming controls?
Post by: matt oz on December 04, 2006, 05:00:08 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on December 04, 2006, 06:26:24 PM
Post by: ZeldaWarlord on December 04, 2006, 07:18:10 PM
P.S. I didn't think the swimming controls were too hard, but i did think switching tunics on the fly under water did make things awkward
Post by: Nick DiMola on December 05, 2006, 12:57:26 AM
