Post by: MegaByte on November 12, 2006, 04:51:13 PM
Computer and Video Games ran a follow-up interview to their previous question and answer session with Nintendo about the Virtual Console and uncovered some new information about the system.
The Nintendo 64 marked the first first-party inclusion of rumble technology in console video games. However, Virtual Console does not support rumble and so downloaded N64 games will not be able to use that feature.
Other than rumble support, Nintendo stressed that games running on the Virtual Console are "faithful recreations" of the originals with absolutely no alterations or enhancements. In particular, this means that there will be no fixes for games with slowdown, and multiplayer games cannot be played over the Internet.
Many people have wondered how buttons will be mapped considering the classic controller deviates from the design of the Nintendo 64 controller. Controller layout will be determined on a game-by-game basis and controller layouts will be detailed in the included electronic manual.
When asked whether GameCube controllers would continue to be manufactured and sold, Nintendo responded that no firm plans have been announced, but "GameCube accessories are still available from all good retailers."
Though they vary in size, the average size for NES downloads is 1MB, with 5MB for SNES games, and 32MB for N64 games. Each downloaded game receives its own channel on the Wii Channels screen and can be moved around to suit the user, but are not grouped by system.
Nintendo also stated that 2000 point Wii cards would be available for purchase online as well as in retailers. That statement along with previously released info implies that Wii points will initially only be available in blocks of 2000 no matter where they are purchased.
More Virtual Console games will be announced at a later date and begin release in 2007.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 12, 2006, 05:56:53 PM
I think online multiplayer, framerate fixes and even hardware boosted graphics could really be a HUGE selling point to repurchasing lots of these older games. Imagine Goldeneye with crisper textures, no slowdown and also running in 4player online play. If that doesn't sell 1 million easily I don't know what other VC games would.
Post by: Pale on November 12, 2006, 06:02:17 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 12, 2006, 06:16:22 PM
Post by: Shin Gallon on November 12, 2006, 06:17:40 PM
Post by: Strell on November 12, 2006, 06:19:44 PM
Given all the stupid bullsh*t going on the with the VC, it's almost like they are actively discouraging it.
I know that isn't the case, as it is a big cash grab, but damn. It's like they literally cannot figure out how to screw it up even more. This absolutely pales in comparison to XBLA in terms of polish.
I'm not even talking disappoint on a "man I wanted online play for old games" stuff. I'm talking about just emulating them well and thinking about particulars like total functionality like rumble.
Microsoft doesn't have a library to compare to the VC, but when they pick up big names like Contra and (potentially I think) Symphony of the Night, it just makes the VC look more and more poor. Which is really disappointing, as I thought Nintendo was going to hold their own on this one, considering they are unmatched in what it can offer.
I had better hear some good news soon, like we CAN transfer to SD cards, or there is going to be some ass to kick.
Post by: IceCold on November 12, 2006, 06:41:07 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on November 12, 2006, 06:49:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
giving each there own channel makes no sense to me as there is a hard limit on the number of channels....
Yeah, I don't understand how that's gonna work...
Post by: Guitar Smasher on November 12, 2006, 06:53:26 PM
Post by: Strell on November 12, 2006, 07:32:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Hey. I'll give you $10 not to buy a Wii. Then we'll both be happy..
Touche.
You bitch.
Post by: King of Twitch on November 12, 2006, 07:32:41 PM
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 12, 2006, 07:34:50 PM
It's been mentione, but I am worried about what they plan to do space-wise since there are only 48 channels total. I don't want to have to delete and re-download games if that 48 gets filled up. I want to have faith, but it seems like every new VC announcment makes it seem worse (like releasing almost all crappy games this year and saving the good games for next year).
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 12, 2006, 09:30:43 PM
Remember for the first time ever Nintendo can actually update the Wii interface, including virtual console games. So definately express your concerns but don't spread doom and gloom or nothing is going to be improved, think of the Wii as a new step for NIntendo and they need our help to evolve the system.
Post by: Aussie Ben PGC on November 13, 2006, 12:09:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
Microsoft doesn't have a library to compare to the VC, but when they pick up big names like Contra and (potentially I think) Symphony of the Night...
...what? What? WHAT? Fantastic. I really hope the rumours of Bomberman Saturn come true as well.
Post by: Tansunn on November 13, 2006, 01:21:03 AM
Post by: vudu on November 13, 2006, 02:03:47 AM
Post by: Bartman3010 on November 13, 2006, 02:16:08 AM
So yeah, what are they going to do about the Stone of Agony? They could at least add support to games that DONT use the controller pak.
Post by: Pale on November 13, 2006, 03:30:40 AM
That is, as long as they create save files on the normal system memory in the same way Wii games will. I don't want high scores and stuff getting erased.
Speaking of High scores... are these truly direct ports? Meaning, will classic NES games that didn't have battery saves like Ice Climber and Balloon Fight add the ability to save high scores? I mean, they already did that much in Animal Crossing and the GBA ports... If they don't have high scores I will be significantly disappointed.
Post by: getter77 on November 13, 2006, 04:04:29 AM
Lack of rumble is BS...the least they could do is try to spin it by saying something retarded like "we thought we'd try copying the PS3 for a change"
No online multiplayer/co-op=FAILURE Here's hoping they wise up ASAP and start to gain this feature at the very least
Jeez, it is not complicated at all for Nintendo to beat out the fan emulators and give people an enriched classic experience.
Post by: Pale on November 13, 2006, 04:32:03 AM
Post by: Nick DiMola on November 13, 2006, 06:48:06 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 13, 2006, 10:20:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
What about Duck Hunt and Hogan's Alley and stuff like that, are we going to be able to use the Wii Remote as a pointer to play those games? I am pissed about the whole rumble thing but, really I won't be buying too many VC games anyway because I have all the old systems and most of the good games on those systems. But I definitely would love to play the old light gun NES games again with a controller that doesn't suck terribly.
I am concerned as well about the light gun games, but there may be a solution. From what I understand you could theoretically program the sensor to act like a light gun by telling it when you are pointing at the TV by calibrating it (I think you can do it with Zelda), or even where on the TV you are pointing (Maybe by using the cursor and clicking when you are on certain spots of your TV). I dunno though, I may be absolutely wrong (probaly I am lol) but I would like to see how Nintendo is going to rectify this because a reticle would ruin a game like duck hunt.
Post by: MegaByte on November 13, 2006, 01:24:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: getter77
Where in the world are they getting 1MB NES downloads?
Don't forget that they come with a digital manual.
Post by: MegaByte on November 13, 2006, 01:30:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
Anyone who really thought Nintendo was going to add online multiplayer was dreaming. It's a huge technical undertaking... I mean, look how well Control on Live Arcade worked out.
It's tricky, but not a huge undertaking. It's been done properly before with XBand, and more recently with Fuzziqer's GameCube Control Sim. Selecting the memory addresses necessary to sync games (and not just control inputs like a lot of emulators and XBLA do) has to be done on a case by case basis, but it's totally within the realm of possibility.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 13, 2006, 01:33:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MegaByteQuote
Originally posted by: Pale
Anyone who really thought Nintendo was going to add online multiplayer was dreaming. It's a huge technical undertaking... I mean, look how well Control on Live Arcade worked out.
It's tricky, but not a huge undertaking. It's been done properly before with XBand, and more recently with Fuzziqer's GameCube Control Sim. Selecting the memory addresses necessary to sync games (and not just control inputs like a lot of emulators and XBLA do) has to be done on a case by case basis, but it's totally within the realm of possibility.
Well I haven't tried it but I heard that Contra for Xbox Arcade has a terrible online mode, so it can't be that easy to do!
Post by: Ian Sane on November 13, 2006, 01:38:48 PM
This is just, well, dumb. Why not just make it so that the player can map the buttons however they wish? Like it's not even part of the game itself. I should be able to just go into the VC options and set it so that the A button for NES games is whatever I want.
Somehow we can figure this incredibly obvious stuff out and Nintendo can't. So far Nintendo's approach to the VC seems to be like a demonstration on how to make the feature unappealing. The sheer strength of the games available and the benefits of the general barebones concept seems to be all that's carrying it. Take the same feature and apply it to a weaker selection of games and it would look really bad.
Normally I prefer the idea of having accurate versions but there are always exceptions. Frame rates should be fixed (or have an extra option to turn slowdown on or off), high scores should always save, and in the case of arcade-to-home conversions any limitations added by transfering to weaker hardware should be restored (missing level added back to Donkey Kong; multiplayer support for Final Fight). The ideal thing should be to provide the BEST version of the game, looking at the various versions that were released at the time. In some cases that's straight emulation, sometimes it's a combination of features from different versions, and in some cases it might just be having multiple versions available. Slam Masters, for example, should have the Team Battle Royale from the Arcade and SNES version and also the Death Match from the Genesis one (which has no Team Battle Royale). Something like Bionic Commando, where the arcade and NES versions are totally different, should have both versions available.
The VC seems like a feature that would be easy to pull off for someone who has a real passion about videogames from Pong until today. I'm wondering if Nintendo is letting some of their less experienced staff work on it while the big guns work on Wii games. This has too much of that "wrong button mapping in Mega Man Anniversary Collection" feel to it.
Post by: MechaG2 on November 13, 2006, 02:59:37 PM
oT is going to be of any use now.As for upgrades for the classics, this news is a little baffling as Nintendo had stated about a few months ago (and a few times, actually) that there was a good possibility of them releasing upgraded versions of some of the classics including audio, visual and gameplay enhancements. Concerning N64 games, they had stated that they would only be smoothing out the framerates and that adding on-line functionality for N64 games is possible, but logistically it isn't practical so they wouldn't be doing it at least in the immediate future. Duck Hunt has been confirmed to be included in the VC and would require some sort of modification or enhancement for gameplay to get it to work for either the classic controller or remote. So either way it will have to be modified.
Having only about 48 channels available with each downloadable VC game relegated to one whole channel at first does seem impractical and even stupid. But you have to remember that the channels interface is modular and upgradeable. I guarantee Nintendo will allow the proper upgrades and modifications as the need arises. There are only going to be about 30 VC games available by the first of the year after all.
Post by: Smoke39 on November 13, 2006, 04:43:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MechaG2
Duck Hunt has been confirmed to be included in the VC and would require some sort of modification or enhancement for gameplay to get it to work for either the classic controller or remote. So either way it will have to be modified.
They wouldn't have to modify the game to do that. They just need to change the way the data the old zapper would stick in memory for the game to access to determine where the gun was pointed is generated.
Post by: Djunknown on November 13, 2006, 05:37:55 PM
Quote
Anyone who really thought Nintendo was going to add online multiplayer was dreaming. It's a huge technical undertaking.
This is entering a gray area, but emulators have on-line multiplayer for years now, working without too much difficulty. Though the N64 would be tricky, but can be remedied as explained earlier. I plead the 5th after that statement, but if a bunch of programmers with nothing but spare time can do this, why not programmers who have access to NOA/NCL's archive of top secret stuff?
Post by: Pale on November 13, 2006, 06:37:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolutionQuote
Originally posted by: MegaByteQuote
Originally posted by: Pale
Anyone who really thought Nintendo was going to add online multiplayer was dreaming. It's a huge technical undertaking... I mean, look how well Control on Live Arcade worked out.
It's tricky, but not a huge undertaking. It's been done properly before with XBand, and more recently with Fuzziqer's GameCube Control Sim. Selecting the memory addresses necessary to sync games (and not just control inputs like a lot of emulators and XBLA do) has to be done on a case by case basis, but it's totally within the realm of possibility.
Well I haven't tried it but I heard that Contra for Xbox Arcade has a terrible online mode, so it can't be that easy to do!
Heh, I totally meant to type "Contra" up there instead of control... i look silly.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 13, 2006, 06:40:31 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 13, 2006, 07:33:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution I am concerned as well about the light gun games, but there may be a solution. From what I understand you could theoretically program the sensor to act like a light gun by telling it when you are pointing at the TV by calibrating it (I think you can do it with Zelda), or even where on the TV you are pointing (Maybe by using the cursor and clicking when you are on certain spots of your TV). I dunno though, I may be absolutely wrong (probaly I am lol) but I would like to see how Nintendo is going to rectify this because a reticle would ruin a game like duck hunt.
I'm betting it will work just like the zapper: point and shoot.
A reticle would require more programming to these games. In this case, the interface only needs to be rewritten once to make use of the Wiimote for lightgun games. The Wiimote IS a lightgun, just with an awkward shape for a gun. If it can project a cursor on the screen, then it definitely fits the bill.
This means that, yes, we could also see the Super Scope Six games on the VC.
Post by: Tansunn on November 14, 2006, 12:19:19 AM
Post by: vudu on November 14, 2006, 02:30:21 AM
QuoteEven more so than high scores, I want saves for those really long games that didn't have a save/password function. Super Mario Bros 3 is still a pain to complete in a single sitting. I'd love it if they at least added a temporary save function for these types of games. Something like that could be built directly into the emulator, so they wouldn't even have to mess with the original ROM.
Originally posted by: Pale
Speaking of High scores... are these truly direct ports? Meaning, will classic NES games that didn't have battery saves like Ice Climber and Balloon Fight add the ability to save high scores? I mean, they already did that much in Animal Crossing and the GBA ports... If they don't have high scores I will be significantly disappointed.
Post by: Ceric on November 14, 2006, 04:28:42 AM
Post by: Pale on November 14, 2006, 05:44:20 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 14, 2006, 06:01:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Tansunn
The Wiimote is completely different from the Zapper. The Zapper worked by blanking the screen then covering the positions of the targets with a white rectangle. If the sensor in the zapper recognized the white rectangle, it registered as a hit, otherwise it was a miss. The Wiimote determines where it's pointing through the accelerometers and infrared sensor bar, not by flashes on the screen.
I wasn't implying that they're the same hardware, only that the functionality for the games in question will be the same.
You should be able to point at the screen, squeeze the trigger/button and hit whatever you're pointing at with both.
Post by: MegaByte on November 14, 2006, 06:33:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
What about Duck Hunt and Hogan's Alley and stuff like that, are we going to be able to use the Wii Remote as a pointer to play those games?
I suppose it's possible that the light gun attachment will have actual light gun circuitry.
Post by: AnyoneEB on November 15, 2006, 07:58:52 PM
I do not know about other emulators, but I know ZSNES's netplay is not very good. I remember seeing one of the devs suggesting that its best application was for playing a game on one monitor with two keyboards. The problem is, the games were made to assume zero lag, which doesn't happen over the internet. For some games, it doesn't matter, but for fast moving games, it's intolerable. (Anyone who has ever played a LAN game of armagetron knows what I mean... and that is designed for LAN play, just Tron is pretty much the fastest possible game.)
