Post by: mantidor on November 03, 2006, 09:10:29 AM
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=148658
"GameCube games are played with GameCube pads. Can they be played with the Classic controller too, for those who don't actually have any GC pads?
Nintendo: Nintendo GameCube games can only be played using Nintendo GameCube controllers. The Classic Controller will not work on these games. "
urgh... for us the people who hated the classic controller, we just assume that it ended up like a bad rip off of the bad rip off that the playstation controller was in order to be compatible with GC games, but now we are being revealed that is not such the case. So I want to know why the hell Nintendo didn't just use a N64 controller as the classic controller when its obvious it works for every single console in the VC perfectly. Whats the point in two analogs sticks and clickable shoulder pads if GC games are out of the question? ARGH, Nintendo pisses me off so much sometimes.
/rant
so what do you think?, I really hope some third party gets a clue and releases a N64 pad because is the most obvious choice for a VC game, and that Nintendo gets ZERO sales of its classic controller for being so damn short-sighted.
Post by: Kairon on November 03, 2006, 09:12:33 AM
Agree on the Classic controller having two analog sticks but not playing GC games. WTH?!?! That is KA-STOOPID!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on November 03, 2006, 09:23:32 AM
I guess I should find a store that's trying to offload old Gamecube accessories and stock up on controllers.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 03, 2006, 09:23:33 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 03, 2006, 09:45:59 AM
Post by: mantidor on November 03, 2006, 09:57:28 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2006, 09:57:47 AM
My theory is that the classic controller was an afterthought and whoever was assigned the task of designing it really doesn't know much about videogames. They just looked at the PS2 controller and used that model since it's so popular. They probably don't know that NONE of the VC games were designed with a Dualshock design in mind and that an N64 design would be perfect. Though the classic controller can work with new Wii games so part of the design may have been for that.
Requiring Cube controllers for Cube games just seems incredibly sloppy and it effectively kills the feature since only people who already have a Cube will have Cube controllers. The whole draw of the PS2 backwards compatibility is that if you never owned a Playstation you can just buy the PS2 and you're set. Once you have to buy FOUR MORE CONTROLLERS it goes from a mass market idea to a hardcore gamer idea. I'm wondering though if perhaps this was intentional with Nintendo hoping to sell Cube controllers to new Wii owners.
Sloppy stupid screwups for no reason - the very thing I think sunk the Cube worse than anything. Though I don't think it's quite as important this time since the PS3 is such a joke. Still ever since we first saw the "Revolution" in its black colour, DVD playback, and Gamecube backwards compatibility the typical Nintendo screw-ups have started to pile on and pretty much all of the things I praised Nintendo for doing then have disappeared.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 03, 2006, 10:00:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
hahaha ps1 games on the VC? are you serious? when is about defending nintendo from their stupid decisions some of you push things a bit too far.
Considering every descision is stupid with you, it gets tiresome. I only threw out the PS1 games as a possible example (and it is not far fetched considering 360 will get games like Symphony of the night) ALONG with the fact that Nintendo created the controller for 3rd parties to use for porting their games (maybe for alternate control methods)?
Post by: Requiem on November 03, 2006, 10:02:08 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 03, 2006, 10:03:56 AM
I am sad I have to get virtual console controllers and new gamecube controllers, but oh well.
Post by: vudu on November 03, 2006, 10:07:43 AM
Quote
Games that are downloaded can be stored either to the Wii's internal memory (512MB) or onto SD cards, which plug into the SD slot on the front of the Wii. In addition the console also stores a history of all of your downloads so that if you have to delete any VC games for any reason you could re-download them for free at a later date.
Quote
Each Virtual Console game downloaded will come with a digital instruction manual.
QuoteThose are all great things that (AFAIK) haven't been previously confirmed.
Wii points can also be bought online via the Wii Shop using all major credit cards and will be credited to your account.
Post by: decoyman on November 03, 2006, 10:10:16 AM
The Classic controller is made for use with Wii games too. Fire Emblem was set up this way at the recent Nintendo World event.
Your original point still stands, but people are making it out like the classic controller is going to be useless, and it's not.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 03, 2006, 10:11:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
This frustrates me...but I understand it. The virtual Console Pad isn't exactly the Gamecube Pad.
I am sad I have to get virtual console controllers and new gamecube controllers, but oh well.
I really think it all came down to cost, like I said I would not be surprised if they basically included a GC into the Wii and did not make any modifications to it to keep down cost. Virtual Controller was created as a way to introduce developers to Wii who were afraid to utilize the Wiimote fully and to play games from their VC. Do you people honestly realize though how pathetic some of your examples of Nintendo screwing things up with are? No black color. No DVD playback. And not being able to use the Wiicontroller with GC games. Give me a break this bitching is getting ridiculous.
Post by: Requiem on November 03, 2006, 10:13:02 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 03, 2006, 10:15:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
I think Donkey Konga was the main reason to not allow the Classic Controller to play GC games.
I dunno about that but honestly I think we are jumping the gun to harpoon Nintendo so badly for this because there may have been some specific technical reasons why they did not include VC Controller support.
Post by: mantidor on November 03, 2006, 10:23:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: decoyman
Agreed, they might as well just have added some compatibility in. But one thing you're forgetting:
The Classic controller is made for use with Wii games too. Fire Emblem was set up this way at the recent Nintendo World event.
Your original point still stands, but people are making it out like the classic controller is going to be useless, and it's not.
I did not know that, it makes it less short-sighted indeed, but Im really interested in the VC N64 games, which makes dissapointing this decision they made, in that case, apparently they are going to have a bigger focus on traditional new games on the console than what I initially thought.
Post by: vudu on November 03, 2006, 10:24:03 AM
QuoteI'm not sure if you're just angry or what, but that's the worst theory I've ever heard. Are you suggesting that Nintendo got the building custodian to design the controller? Or just picked someone random off the street? Are you even serious?
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
My theory is that the classic controller was an afterthought and whoever was assigned the task of designing it really doesn't know much about videogames. They just looked at the PS2 controller and used that model since it's so popular. They probably don't know that NONE of the VC games were designed with a Dualshock design in mind....
It seems the classic controller is a meld of the SNES controller (which, I've heard you say yourself is the best controller ever) and the PlayStation controller (the most popular controller ever). What's not to like? You've been bitching for four years that the GameCube controller was bad because it didn't have the same number of buttons as the competition's controller. Now Nintendo takes steps to fix it and you blast them for not taking a step back and using a controller that was designed for two generations ago.
You seem to forget that the sole purpose of the classic controller isn't to play VC games. It's also meant to offer developers an alternative to using the remote/nunchuk. If that alternative only had one analog stick and one set of shoulder buttons we'd get the same thing we've gotten this generation--third party ports with botched controls or (worse) no ports at all.
Give it a rest.
Post by: Pale on November 03, 2006, 10:29:54 AM
Color me confused.
Post by: wandering on November 03, 2006, 10:42:18 AM
Anyway. Time to rip on Ian.
Quote
Still ever since we first saw the "Revolution" in its black colour [...] the typical Nintendo screw-ups have started to pile on
Translation: I personally like black more than white, and so try to imply that launching with white and not black is a bad business decision, even though the huge success of the ipod proves otherwise.
Quote
Sloppy stupid screwups for no reason - the very thing I think sunk the Cube worse than anything. Though I don't think it's quite as important this time since the PS3 is such a joke.
Translation: I want to bitch about Nintendo's decisions and imply they're handling the Wii just as badly as they handled the Cube, while at the same time making it impossible for me to be proven wrong. I know! I'll say that, if Nintendo succeeds, it's only because of Sony's screw-ups.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2006, 10:44:17 AM
I'm sure there are people at NOA that are involved in business, marketing, or technical stuff that don't have a real knowledge of past videogames and, although having enough expertise to design a controller, aren't familiar enough with the N64 to realize some of the issues of the classic controller's design. We've seen this sort of stuff in the game industry before. Mega Man Anniversary Collection came out on the Cube with the buttons reversed. Obviously the people involved in the port didn't play the NES Mega Man games. In Midway Arcade Treasures 2 a random select code in Mortal Kombat II doesn't work because they mapped the Start button to open the menu. Obviously those involved weren't familiar with MK2. It's not unheard of for companies to assign projects to people that have the technical expertise (ie: they know how to make a controller) but not the practical expertise.
I work as a programmer and sometimes get assigned to work on programs someone else designed for a business purpose I'm not familiar with. I have specifications to follow and I have enough knowledge of programming to do the work but the client isn't sitting next to me to let me know if I miss some detail that they didn't think to tell me and I didn't know. Nintendo's top hardware designers probably would have been involved in the remote and the classic controller may have been handed off to a less experienced team that wasn't that familiar with the older games the controller had to support.
Now if Nintendo is actually going to use the classic controller for new games a fair bit (they always acted like it was primarily for the VC and it is called the "classic" controller) then the design isn't so illogical. Still putting six face buttons instead of four would have fixed the problem.
The real issue here is the requirement of Cube controllers to play Cube games. THAT doesn't make sense no matter how you dice it.
Post by: IceCold on November 03, 2006, 10:48:17 AM
Quotevudu tackled the first part of your post, so I guess I'll take this. Wow, Ian.. honestly, I tolerate most of the other stuff you say because you back it up well and it's usually rational, but this is going too far. Give Nintendo SOME credit. Do you really believe that if the Wii succeeds it will only be because of Sony's troubles? Nintendo took a HUGE risk with the Wii - it's a do or die situation. Things which we criticised them for at the time are turning out to be beneficial for them. Don't try to belittle their projected success by saying it's because someone else screwed up. Nintendo deserves a lot of the praise here, and it seems like you don't want to believe that Nintendo can succeed without following your vision. It comes off pretty childish, actually..
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Sloppy stupid screwups for no reason - the very thing I think sunk the Cube worse than anything. Though I don't think it's quite as important this time since the PS3 is such a joke. Still ever since we first saw the "Revolution" in its black colour, DVD playback, and Gamecube backwards compatibility the typical Nintendo screw-ups have started to pile on and pretty much all of the things I praised Nintendo for doing then have disappeared.
Post by: Kairon on November 03, 2006, 10:51:53 AM
Seriously, two things:
1. This is KA-STOOPID, and there's no defending it. KA-STOOPID KA-STOOPID KA-STOOPID.
2. This is a SMALL THING AND PROBABLY WON'T BRING ALONG THE DOWNFALL OF NINTENDO.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: King of Twitch on November 03, 2006, 10:55:30 AM
Great success!
It's funny how they set out to simplify games for the mass market, and now they have all of these different configurations, attachments, limitations, integrations, and combinations.
Post by: IceCold on November 03, 2006, 10:58:25 AM
Post by: vudu on November 03, 2006, 11:00:04 AM
QuoteAllow me to attempt to dice.
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The real issue here is the requirement of Cube controllers to play Cube games. THAT doesn't make sense no matter how you dice it.
You can play your GBA games on you DS just fine. However, when you do, certain buttons (namely the X and Y buttons) are shut off. Likewise, the touch screen and second screen aren't used (for obvious reasons). But the rest work just fine because it's a 1:1 match up between DS controls and GBA controls.
The same can't be said for the classic controller and the GameCube controller.
-The ABXY configuration is completely different.
-The Z button has been moved.
-The second analog stick isn't the same as the C stick.
-The shoulder buttons on the classic controller aren't (AFAIK) analog like the GameCube controller.
While any one of these changes aren't necessarily deal breakers, combined it seems like they were enough to make Nintendo decide not to make the classic controller compatible with GameCube games. Nintendo created these games and ultimately it's up to them to decide what to do with them in the future. Chances are there are a lot of GameCube games that didn't feel right with the classic controller. You can argue all you want that Nintendo should have given us the choice and I may even agree with you in the end, but it really doesn't matter. Spielberg can remove guns from E.T., Lucas can insert Jabba the Hut in Star Wars, and Nintendo can force us to use GameCube controllers to play GameCube games. (Side note: of those three examples, which makes the most sense?
)
Post by: mantidor on November 03, 2006, 11:05:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
It's incredibly hard to rationalize a purchase of the Classic Controller now. I'm not one to complain about the N64 issues, as I think it will work fine, but really... If the Classic controller can't be used to play Cube games, so I still have to have my Wavebirds around, and both the Wavebirds and the Wii remote works with the VC games, why exactly do I need the classic controller?
Color me confused.
To play fire emblem I guess? However, Im sure the game will also come with a remote option. Im also sure the number of new games that use exclusively the classic controller (besides the VC old games) won't be big, including the supposedly indie games. So far the indie scene on the wii looks to be as big as online was for GC. Lets hope such thing doesn't happen, but I really don't expect Nintendo to become friendly in that direction, they never had been in the past.
Post by: wandering on November 03, 2006, 11:06:41 AM
Quote
Chances are there are a lot of GameCube games that didn't feel right with the classic controller.
But the classic controller is alot closer to the cube controller than, say, the n64 controller. I can't imagine Ocarina of time 'feeling right' with the classic controller.
Post by: vudu on November 03, 2006, 11:11:18 AM
Under no circumstances will you have to play OoT with the classic controller. If you play OoT on your Zelda Collector's Disc, you have to play with a GameCube controller. If you download it on the VC (assuming it will available) you can play with either the classic controller or the GameCube controller.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 03, 2006, 11:15:23 AM
I have to second IceCold's post too. I believe Nintendo put far more thought into Wii than...well, any console in a long time. If Wii succeeds, Sony and Microsoft's screw-ups may be partly to blame, but Nintendo's decisions will be the main reason. I mean, Nintendo failed to deliver HD, it failed to deliver (much) better graphics, it failed to deliver a controller that plays all previous games, and it failed to deliver DVD playback: by all traditional accounts, Wii should be an utter disappointment this generation. But it probably won't be, because Nintendo knew what it was doing when it brought something new to the table instead of those things.
Post by: Pale on November 03, 2006, 11:20:33 AM
Regardless, I just saved some money on Launch day. I'll probably only pick up two Classic controllers now (instead of 4) for sake of 2 player VC games that require more than 2 buttons and don't use an analog stick. (I still hate the Cube d-pad)
Post by: The Traveller on November 03, 2006, 11:21:40 AM
Post by: Mikintosh on November 03, 2006, 11:41:23 AM
I doubt if we'll see Cube games a year from now; it's not like the NES and Super Nintendo where it was in the company's interest to keep them both alive.
Post by: ShyGuy on November 03, 2006, 11:49:47 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on November 03, 2006, 11:55:22 AM
On backwards compatability...I don't see where it was worth it to put it in just to pacify GameCube owners...there's only 20 million of us anyway, and...uh..being a GameCube owner....I really don't need it to be backwards compatable. What I'm trying to say is, it's too bad the Wii controller doesn't work with Cube games. Too bad, but not the end of the world (or even a very big deal).
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2006, 12:01:38 PM
Oh okay then. They have every right to do whatever they want so I guess none of us should have an opinion on it one way or another.
The fact that the classic controller doesn't work perfectly with the Cube doesn't matter becaues the classic controller isn't ideal for playing N64 games either. Why is one compromise so unacceptable that they have to force us to use a different controller and the other isn't? I figure this is either a brain fart, an attempt to sell more controllers, or a shortcut.
I do think including instruction manuals is really cool though. I wonder if we can retreive the file it's on in some way and upload them on the internet. Then we can have a site to look up the instructions to old games. I know virtually every used cartridge game I've bought didn't have instructions.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2006, 12:05:25 PM
I'm saying this doesn't matter as much as stuff like this did on the Cube because Sony is screwing up more so Nintendo doesn't look inferior. On the Cube Sony was doing right the things Nintendo did wrong. Here a minor but annoying goof like this isn't as much as a problem because when you look at the competition you see a lot of problems too. The Xbox 360 also has even worse backwards compatibility so this isn't going to have as big of an impact.
Post by: vudu on November 03, 2006, 12:52:56 PM
Post by: MaryJane on November 03, 2006, 01:01:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Here's an (unoriginal) idea ... why doesn't Nintendo release retro controllers for all their systems so you can play VC games on the controller the game was originally meant to be played on? (BTW, this seems likely to happen if VC gets popular.) If they do that are you going to complain that Nintendo is trying to get us to buy multiple controllers to play games we already played ten years ago?
Only if they have cool individual stickers on them! Then it would be worth it.
hmmm, 64 games that use the analog stick didn't use the L button too heavily, but GC did because of the better placement of the stick. I wonder if that may have factored into the decision?
Post by: MarioAllStar on November 03, 2006, 03:08:50 PM
Unless the GameCube's operating system was running at all times and the games accessed controllers through the OS rather than interfacing with the hardware directly. In that case, the functionality could probably just be added to the OS.
The point is, if this were terribly easy to implement, then Nintendo probably would have. After all, I'm sure there are people who would have bought a classic controller just to get a more standard button layout than the traditional GCcontroller (everyone says the GC controller is not well suited to fighting games).
Post by: Mario on November 03, 2006, 03:13:07 PM
Post by: segagamer12 on November 03, 2006, 03:52:22 PM
Holy Friggin Crap I can't beleive all the fuss over something so trivial. Game Cube games will work perfectly fine with GC controllers because, they were desinged to!!!
The VC 'Classic' controller will work perfectly for NES, SNES, TG16, Genesis and N64 games so what is the big deal?
I mean seriously stop and think about it you dont really think that people who dont have GC controllers now wont be able to get them any where Wii controllers are sold?
Post by: 31 Flavas on November 03, 2006, 03:57:47 PM
QuoteUhm.. why would you nessarily have to buy "new" controllers. Gamecube controllers are probably $5 dollars used at EB/GS/GC/eBay/etc....
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Requiring Cube controllers for Cube games just seems incredibly sloppy and it effectively kills the feature since only people who already have a Cube will have Cube controllers. [Yadda yadda, conspiricy stuff, OMG 4 CONTROLLERS needed, ...]
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 03, 2006, 04:00:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
I think that there are probably technical reasons for this being the case (as mentioned before). Realize that the classic controller plugs in to the remote. In order to have the classic controller work with GameCube games, there would need to be some sort of wrapper around the games that allowed communication with the Wii remote so that the GameCube controller could be emulated.
Unless the GameCube's operating system was running at all times and the games accessed controllers through the OS rather than interfacing with the hardware directly. In that case, the functionality could probably just be added to the OS.
The point is, if this were terribly easy to implement, then Nintendo probably would have. After all, I'm sure there are people who would have bought a classic controller just to get a more standard button layout than the traditional GCcontroller (everyone says the GC controller is not well suited to fighting games).
Hey I was going to suggest the same thing, but let me put this technical issue into perspective. Has there been a console yet with such vastly different controller (both in design and the hardware inside) that has been used for backwards compatibility? The answer is not that I'm aware of, the PS2's was basically the PS1 dual shock, the PS3 is basically the dual shock with accelometers, and the 360 one may be the only exception EXCEPT the games are emulated which is why there is not 100% compatibility.
When you put that into perspective and considering the Wiimote is NOT at all similar to the GC one in design and how it functions (I doubt they have many of the same parts) there could be huge compatibility issues with making GC games use it. If anyone has anything further to add to that, feel free, but that is a potential scenario as to why there is no Wiimote compatibility with GC games. Anyway I would think you guys should be tickled to death that it appears the Wii is 100% compatible with all GC games, something neither 360 nor the PS2 or 3 can brag about.
Post by: Pale on November 03, 2006, 04:19:59 PM
Post by: MarioAllStar on November 03, 2006, 04:31:02 PM
Speaking of which, can NES games be played with a sideways Wiimote? Or are all Virtual Console games only playable with the classic controller?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 03, 2006, 04:31:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
I don't think anyone is asking for Wiimote compatibility with GC games. What most of us were hoping for was Wii Classic Controller compatibility with GC games. It isn't a big deal, just strange that they didn't work it out. All the buttons are there.
Yes I understand but the VC Classic COntroller is still using the Wiimote technology and thus may still be completely different from what was used in the GC controllers. I just have a hunch (that I hope some of the more technical minded people may be able to answer) that it was quite hard to implement the Classic Controller controls into GC games for technological incompatibility reasons.
Post by: Mario on November 03, 2006, 04:51:14 PM
Post by: Kairon on November 03, 2006, 05:12:06 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: UncleBob on November 03, 2006, 05:33:02 PM
So if I want to play:
NES Games - I can use the Standard Wii Controller, Game Cube Controller or Classic Controller.
SNES Games - Game Cube Controller or Classic Controller.
SEGA Genesis Games - Game Cube Controller or Classic Controller.
TG-16 Games - Game Cube Controller or Classic Controller.
N64 Games - Game Cube Controller or Classic Controller.
GameCube Games - Game Cube Controller, Bongos, GBA Connectivity or Action Pad.
Original Content VC Games - Standard Wii Controller, Game Cube Controller, Classic Controller, Bongos, Action Pad, GBA Connectivity, DS Connectivity, Nunchuck, Steering Wheel Cover...
Wii Games - Standard Wii Controller, Game Cube Controller, Classic Controller, Bongos, Action Pad, GBA Connectivity, DS Connectivity, Nunchuck, Steering Wheel Cover...
Wow. I'm all for strange configuations of hardware and hooking stuff all up weird, but... geesh...
Post by: MarioAllStar on November 03, 2006, 05:39:31 PM
Post by: Caliban on November 03, 2006, 05:42:44 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 03, 2006, 05:45:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
I guess I'm just one of the strange ones that was hoping I wouldn't NEED my WaveBirds for Wii. I think the Classic Controller would have worked great for Cube games.
Regardless, I just saved some money on Launch day. I'll probably only pick up two Classic controllers now (instead of 4) for sake of 2 player VC games that require more than 2 buttons and don't use an analog stick. (I still hate the Cube d-pad)
I was the same way. I don't have any more Gamecube controllers that work great anymore. I need to buy 2-3 more. But I love the design of the Virtual Controller much better than the Gamecube controller.
My guess would be that the limitation is within the actual software and hardware and less that Nintendo made a conscientious decision not to allow this to happen.
The reality could simply be that they didn't have an easy fix or a fix at all to trick the software into thinking it was using the Gamecube controllers...and that could be because HOW the Wii controllers send information to the console.
Its a disappointment to be sure, but perhaps it is one that was unavoidable, or one that can be fixed with firmware later.
Post by: Mario on November 03, 2006, 05:48:57 PM
Post by: UncleBob on November 03, 2006, 06:01:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
I doubt that (m)any Wii games or original Virtual Console content will be designed for any GameCube-compatible controllers (Bongos, GBA-link, etc.).
We already know that Bongo Blast was moved to the Wii, so that's at least one game that will use the Bongos (at least, I have high hopes they don't plan on making me purchase even more Bongos)... I assume that since the GBA Pokémon games are compatible with the DS games, you'll probably be able to link them to the Wii to transfer Pokémon to the upcoming Pokémon Wii game. But that's just a guess.
Post by: Shecky on November 03, 2006, 06:01:37 PM
1) Two modes of operation.... Wii software and GCN software. What's Wii software, everything that's not pressed to a GCN disc.
2) Controlling anything GCN is done through the GCN ports.
3) Controlling anything else is done with or through the Wii remote.
As a result of this VC games would be playable with anything attached to the Wii remote or even the remote itself. I'm also sure that your going to be able to use any past Nintendo controler with Wii software. Why? You can make an adapter to plug any controler into the Wii remote that's why. Nintendo could easily come up with a button mapper channel to allow customizations and profiles for VC games. If they don't you could easily do the mappings via other means. I bet you'll even see playstation controller adapters for the wii remote from third parties. So could you use the GCN controller for VC games? Yes. Wii titles? Yes. Just not through the GCN ports, but rather the Wii remote.
Post by: mantidor on November 03, 2006, 09:53:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
The VC 'Classic' controller will work perfectly for NES, SNES, TG16, Genesis and N64 games so what is the big deal?
I mean seriously stop and think about it you dont really think that people who dont have GC controllers now wont be able to get them any where Wii controllers are sold?
No, it doesnt fit perfectly for the N64 games, thats my big deal, the rest is of course covered.
Its not just that though, the focus of the classic controller is to be a last gen controller (GC) more than a last last gen controller (N64) that covered pretty much the rest of consoles, and so far the only reason for this is two types of games: independent games being released in the VC that will use this classic controller, which so far are completly unexistant, and new wii games that are going to have traditional options (smash bros, fire emblem), then again, you can use the GC controllers for wii games anyway, we know we can do it in Smash, it can also happen for Fire Emblem or whatever other new traditional game comes. So unless this indie scene is going to explode and be huge, something I highly doubt, that second stick of the classic controller will be unused most of the time, or used to ackwardly replace C buttons in N64 games, which makes completly pointless to focus on a GC like pad when a N64-pad is the obviously better choice.
At least thank godness for third parties, I can't wait for their peripherals, if they make an N64 VC pad, there would be little to no reason to get a Nintendo classic controller.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 03, 2006, 10:23:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
The VC 'Classic' controller will work perfectly for NES, SNES, TG16, Genesis and N64 games so what is the big deal?
I mean seriously stop and think about it you dont really think that people who dont have GC controllers now wont be able to get them any where Wii controllers are sold?
No, it doesnt fit perfectly for the N64 games, thats my big deal, the rest is of course covered.
Its not just that though, the focus of the classic controller is to be a last gen controller (GC) more than a last last gen controller (N64) that covered pretty much the rest of consoles, and so far the only reason for this is two types of games: independent games being released in the VC that will use this classic controller, which so far are completly unexistant, and new wii games that are going to have traditional options (smash bros, fire emblem), then again, you can use the GC controllers for wii games anyway, we know we can do it in Smash, it can also happen for Fire Emblem or whatever other new traditional game comes. So unless this indie scene is going to explode and be huge, something I highly doubt, that second stick of the classic controller will be unused most of the time, or used to ackwardly replace C buttons in N64 games, which makes completly pointless to focus on a GC like pad when a N64-pad is the obviously better choice.
At least thank godness for third parties, I can't wait for their peripherals, if they make an N64 VC pad, there would be little to no reason to get a Nintendo classic controller.
I think you are completely missing the point, the extra analog stick is an option for developers creating new games to utilize, whether they do or don't is another matter but it does not hurt to design it that way in case! Maybe I misread but I believe a couple games will be utilizing the classic controller (forgot which games, but it was hinted at that Smash Brothers Brawl would). You guys need to get off the mindset that the classic controller is for VC games because that is not its sole purpose, it is an alternative to Wii developers as well! With that said I would like an N64 controller shell, but I think the classic controller will be utilized for some Wii games as well so both would be good to get.
Post by: mantidor on November 03, 2006, 10:39:42 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 03, 2006, 10:45:04 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 03, 2006, 10:48:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
And thats why I mentioned that the GC controller can be used for this new wii games, making the classic controller unnecessary. New developers are free to use the second analog of the GC controller, and personally for me the GC controller is superior to this ripoff of the ps pad. It howevers harms N64 compatibility by replacing C buttons for a stick.
The GC controller would not have the functionality of the Wiimote because of its motion sensing capabilities. If a developer were to make a game for Wii they would most likely want to utilize the accelometers even if they use the classic controller shell. I don't see how that is hard to understand, the Wiimote even with the classic controller shell on still has extra functionality that could not be done with a GC controller (and to avoid looking like a lazy port they would probaly implement the motion control functions similar to the PS3). BTW I have a feeling that SSB Brawl will not use the GC controller but will instead use the shell.
Post by: Mario on November 03, 2006, 10:57:02 PM
Quote
No, it doesnt fit perfectly for the N64 games, thats my big deal, the rest is of course covered.
You can not say that without hands-on experience. Full stop. Move along.
Also remember, you don't have to buy a Classic Controller. Use your GC controller. It worked perfectly fine with OoT on GameCube.
BTW Ians posts here are completely ridiculous, I fully understand what Deg sees now, this horse crap has to stop.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 03, 2006, 10:59:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioQuote
No, it doesnt fit perfectly for the N64 games, thats my big deal, the rest is of course covered.
You can not say that without hands-on experience. Full stop. Move along.
Also remember, you don't have to buy a Classic Controller. Use your GC controller. It worked perfectly fine with OoT on GameCube.
BTW Ians posts here are completely ridiculous, I fully understand what Deg sees now, this horse crap has to stop.
Can you guys direct to the news article where it was said that GC controllers would work with VC games?
Post by: Mario on November 03, 2006, 11:10:23 PM
Quote
Can you specify which controllers it will be possible to use for each of the VC games types (NES, SNES, PC Engine, N64)?
Nintendo: All virtual console games can be played using the Classic Controller or Nintendo GameCube pads.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on November 04, 2006, 04:10:03 AM
Why would ya'll want to play your GCN games on a new style controller anyways?, because we all know that you will all (those bitching that is, most likely) will find something wrong with that if you had been forced to play GCN games with either the Wii controller or the classic controller.
How hard is it to keep your GCN controller out?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 04, 2006, 04:18:28 AM
The N64 Controller has 9 Buttons, but only 8 are accessable at any given time. If you hold it with the center prong you lose the L button, and if you hold it at its ends you lose the Z button.
The Virtual Console has 8 Buttons available to use. I actually think that the 4 shoulder buttons will make games using all the face buttons easier...Because you have your thumb easily played to access 4 buttons, and then the shoulder buttons will be easily researched with your fingers...less accidental button presses.
Post by: UncleBob on November 04, 2006, 05:06:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
The N64 Controller has 9 Buttons, but only 8 are accessable at any given time. If you hold it with the center prong you lose the L button, and if you hold it at its ends you lose the Z button.
I always held the N64 controller wrong. I held it in such a way that I can hit all the buttons. In fact, I always thought it was uncomfortable to hold it with the center prong....
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 04, 2006, 05:09:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBobQuote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
The N64 Controller has 9 Buttons, but only 8 are accessable at any given time. If you hold it with the center prong you lose the L button, and if you hold it at its ends you lose the Z button.
I always held the N64 controller wrong. I held it in such a way that I can hit all the buttons. In fact, I always thought it was uncomfortable to hold it with the center prong....
Ok...so you are admitting you are a freak? J/K
But still no more than 8 buttons were ever used at the same time.
Post by: Shecky on November 04, 2006, 06:04:40 AM
"Can you guys direct to the news article where it was said that GC controllers would work with VC games?"
Yes it's the same one that says you play VC games with the classic controller.
Post by: mantidor on November 04, 2006, 08:59:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioQuote
No, it doesnt fit perfectly for the N64 games, thats my big deal, the rest is of course covered.
You can not say that without hands-on experience. Full stop. Move along.
Also remember, you don't have to buy a Classic Controller. Use your GC controller. It worked perfectly fine with OoT on GameCube.
BTW Ians posts here are completely ridiculous, I fully understand what Deg sees now, this horse crap has to stop.
But there is hands-on experience, I played OoT in the GC, I hated it, the C-stick is not a good replacement for buttons and I think people who think it is are insane, it couldn't be more ackward. It did not work perfectly fine for OoT.
Which is the reason for my dissapointment, and you can be sure theres no way Im going to buy the classic controller, but is such a wasted opportunity that this controller doesn't use a N64 pad.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 04, 2006, 09:26:31 AM
Sony doesn't hold the rights to any 3rd party games which appeared on their consoles (which was most of them).
Something tells me the classic controller looks like a PS1 controller because the Wii will continue to add additional consoles to its list of downloadable support. Once the infrastructure is in place, all it takes is for Nintendo to create the additional emulators and place them up for download and then people can start downloading the roms, no matter how large they might be.
Considering that a 200GB USB hard disk will run you $80, downloading PS1, PS2, Saturn, Dreamcast, Xbox, etc. games might very well be possible at some point in the future.
Plus, I fully expect Nintendo to sell a Wii-compatible HD alongside the Wii at some point in the future, especially if they do release these emulators and roms.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on November 04, 2006, 10:17:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
So I want to know why the hell Nintendo didn't just use a N64 controller as the classic controller when its obvious it works for every single console in the VC perfectly. Whats the point in two analogs sticks and clickable shoulder pads if GC games are out of the question?
Because the N64 controller sucked ass and developers making NEW games for the VC might want to use a second analog stick?
Post by: Talon on November 04, 2006, 11:17:04 AM
I believe they did not go with an N64 controller setup because of the steep learning curve non-gamers would face trying to use it. Think about the first time you ever saw or picked up an N64 controller. Hence the reason for the current design. It is by far the industry standard and will be the most flexible to use for cross-platform support (if indeed developers wanted to put dual shock games on the Wii).
Besides the majority of people who want to play gamecube games on their Wii's will already have a gamecube.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 04, 2006, 12:00:19 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 04, 2006, 12:11:26 PM
My guess is that the whole thing is more in the hands of developers than we realize.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 04, 2006, 12:29:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I know that the Metal Slug Anthology will use 6 different control methods, including a GC controller.
My guess is that the whole thing is more in the hands of developers than we realize.
Interesting, I wonder if they may also use the Classic Controller too for some of the Wiimotes functions?
Post by: King of Twitch on November 04, 2006, 04:17:40 PM
Post by: Kairon on November 04, 2006, 06:14:08 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on November 04, 2006, 06:43:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
The Playstaton version of Castlevania will be available for purchase on the 360 arcade.
Sony doesn't hold the rights to any 3rd party games which appeared on their consoles (which was most of them).
wow, do you have a link? not that I don't believe you but I want to see it for myself, the reason is not that sony owns the games, because the clearly don't, but to run a ps game you have to emulate the console, and the legality of that is a bit blurry, even though apparently PC emulators are off the hook (not the roms, just the program), going into a commercial mainstream application makes things different, Ive read this was one of the limiting factors of emulating playstation games in the VC.
Post by: redgiemental on November 05, 2006, 01:59:17 PM
It could be ported pretty quickly and cheaply I imagine if they weren't changing anything in game just making it work on Wii hardware. That would negate any legality problems with emulating playstation hardware. I presume this is what is happening to get Castlevania on Live Arcade so it shud be equally possible to do this on Wii I think.
I'm just pretty sure that it would be illegal to emulate Sony's hardware. Any thoughts?
Can't think of any original PS games I really want to play though again though.
Post by: SixthAngel on November 05, 2006, 02:44:59 PM
I bought a ps1 again about 3 years ago just to pick up all the old rpgs I missed when I originally had it. Sprite based games age well!
Post by: nitsu niflheim on November 06, 2006, 05:22:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MJRx9000
Have they discussed any button-mapping options menu for VC games? Without a select button on the cube controller, the consequences could be disastrous.
It would be the same when playing GB(A) games with the GBP. The select button was like the z button or something. I don't remember exactly.
Post by: BlkPaladin on November 07, 2006, 10:29:17 PM
Duck Hunt
Hogan's Alley
Kid Icarus
Kirby's Adventure
Pilot Wings
Pro Wrestling
Punch-Out
Wild Gunman (all recieved a score of E)
The IGN article I recieved the news from.
