Post by: Robageejammin on October 05, 2006, 06:24:11 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on October 05, 2006, 07:03:59 PM
Post by: TrueNerd on October 05, 2006, 08:34:58 PM
But even if they do allow GC controllers to play VC games, I'm still getting a classic controller as it will work perfectly with SNES games, or more specifically, Super Metroid.
Post by: Svevan on October 05, 2006, 09:23:05 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 05, 2006, 10:20:09 PM
Post by: Blue Plant on October 05, 2006, 11:06:20 PM
Dorky, yes, but still... It helps to cement the feeling. >.>
Post by: Kairon on October 05, 2006, 11:13:43 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Nick DiMola on October 06, 2006, 02:05:06 AM
Post by: wandering on October 06, 2006, 03:02:19 AM
...and you could, I would guess, use GC controllers for those. (Not that I'll be doing that. I tried playing the original Zelda with one of those things. Ugg.) Game sales are more important to them than controller sales, I imagine. They know the classic controller will sell because it'll be the ideal way to play certain games, so there's no need for them to gimp the games.
Post by: Nick DiMola on October 06, 2006, 03:14:57 AM
Post by: UncleBob on October 06, 2006, 04:06:08 AM
I really, really hope we get to use GameCube controllers for the VC games just so I can use those. If not, well, poo.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 06, 2006, 07:56:03 AM
What about the N64?
I just hope they allow Cube controllers to work. Not just because it's good to provide more options but then I can use my Hori Pads!!
Edit: Turns out Hori Pads were mentioned but I didn't notice because I didn't click on the link. Well carry on.
Post by: JonLeung on October 06, 2006, 08:23:16 AM
You need six face buttons for the six-button Genesis games and of course the N64 games. (In many games the C-buttons weren't used just for a camera so a C-stick isn't a replacement when you need to hit, say, C-left and C-right at the same time.) I also liked the Z-trigger underneath for shooters...though I guess GoldenEye and Perfect Dark are unlikely to come to the VC...but still!
Why are there two sticks? The stick isn't a replacement for the C-buttons (as I already mentioned). And what's with the four shoulder buttons? (The two inner ones look awkward to me). It's almost like they hope to get a few PlayStation games someday.
At first I thought it was ludicrous, but I might consider it if they actually had controllers that were just like the originals but were wireless (or plug into the WiiPointer since they insist on that). At least for the N64 games.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 06, 2006, 08:43:43 AM
Isn't it obvious? That is a solution that would work perfectly with every game on the VC. They had to screw it up a little bit just to remind us we were using a Nintendo product.
Post by: couchmonkey on October 06, 2006, 08:48:03 AM
Post by: wandering on October 06, 2006, 08:51:37 AM
Quote
"I imagine the wii's controller will work well enough for all (Nintendo system) games except for Snes ones."
What about the N64?
Well, there's an analog stick, 2 shoulder buttons, an a and b button, and a d-pad (which should work just as well as the c-stick as a replacement for the c-buttons.)
Quote
I don't see why they didn't make it an N64 controller with a Select button
That's what I was hoping for, at least in terms of button layout. (You could probably do away with the 3 prongs.)
Post by: JonLeung on October 06, 2006, 08:51:42 AM
And again, I must really point out the inability of the C-stick to replace C-buttons. Fighting games tended to use all four C-buttons. How would you hit C-Up and C-Down at the same time? Or C-Left and C-Right? And even in fighting games you rarely would, but the position is incorrect (being below the face buttons) and it'd be awkward to use a stick for basic moves (we're not talking about Capcom Vs. SNK 2 EO's GC-ism mode where a stick is used for special moves), especially in combination with buttons.
It only works when it's used for the camera, but that's not as often as Nintendo expected, and it could work in certain games like Mischief Makers (C-buttons shake in the corresponding directions), but you will find difficulty in trying to play the entire N64 library with only a C-stick and no C-buttons.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on October 06, 2006, 10:26:45 AM
I'm not going to say you don't have a point, but I am going to say that any game that requires such contortions is very badly designed.
Post by: JonLeung on October 06, 2006, 10:44:47 AM
Imagine if the B and A buttons were replaced by a lever or a switch that flips-flops between two positions...B and A. How would you use that in place of buttons? Not very well, I'd imagine. Now imagine that lever is in a different location than it was before. See? Too awkward. Yet it seems to be what everyone seems to be okay with regarding C on the classic controller. I guess the only N64 games you guys played happened to be the ones where it won't be an issue, 'cause I'm still certainly concerned.
What may happen is that games won't be straight emulation, and that controls will be tweaked for certain games. I could see that as a possibility, but people that are greater purists than I might complain.
Still, Mischief Makers is one particular case where I now think it might be cool for the stick to be C.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on October 06, 2006, 10:56:42 AM
Now if you don't like it, that's fine. Really, it is. I find it odd that the classic controller doesn't have six face buttons, too. I just think the c-up and c-down thing sounds like reaching for an excuse.
Post by: JonLeung on October 06, 2006, 11:10:02 AM
I suppose if Rareware's off-board, not only does this save them from having a Z-button as a natural gun trigger (though there must've been other shooters on the N64 other than GoldenEye and Perfect Dark) but also from having Killer Instinct Gold become complicated with the C-buttons or stick, where a kick/punch and the strength of each one is very specific for creating combos.
Watching someone play Killer Instinct and pull off a long combo with the C-stick instead of buttons might be impressive, but would likely complicate an already tricky system, especially to veteran fans of the series.
There are other fighting games...at the time, I remember enjoying Dark Rift and Mace: The Dark Age. Those probably used C-buttons in similar ways.
I may be making a mountain out of a molehill, but I don't see how a C-stick replacing four C-buttons is okay when it's clear that if every button was replaced as a direction on a stick it really wouldn't work. I also didn't have issues with Ocarina Of Time and Majora's Mask on the GameCube, but I don't want the controller to force certain games to not be released or be overly tweaked just to fit a controller that could've simply had two more buttons.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on October 06, 2006, 11:43:29 AM
Anyway, considering that of all the Virtual Console platforms, none have need of a second analog stick, it's pretty clear the classic controller is capitulation to the Sixaxis of Evil, not strictly a means to play Virtual Console games. If there's a market for it, some third party controllers might fix the problem. I like the design of the classic controller, but I'm not really sure what Nintendo had in mind when they came up with it anymore.
Post by: JonLeung on October 06, 2006, 12:16:22 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on October 06, 2006, 12:21:44 PM
Yeah I took it from Penny Arcade. That's one of their funniest comics.
Another one I like is in response to those horrible blister packs controllers come in.
"What was wrong with boxes?"
"No good. People kept getting their stuff out."
Post by: ThePerm on October 06, 2006, 12:27:48 PM
Post by: TrueNerd on October 06, 2006, 02:45:26 PM
Post by: Kairon on October 06, 2006, 02:50:37 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ian Sane on October 10, 2006, 08:32:11 AM
Post by: JonLeung on October 10, 2006, 08:37:43 AM
It's not as likely as when Nintendo called the DS a "third pillar" just in case it bombed so that it wouldn't drag the successful Game Boy name down with it. And we know what happened there...
Post by: vudu on October 10, 2006, 09:14:09 AM
QuoteOnly one problem with that; the classic controller plugs into the remote. Without the remote the classic controller is useless. Therefore, it's can't be a replacement, only a suppliment. Although, you could argue that Nintendo could release a classic controller that interfaces directly with the Wii system.
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I just thought of a potential reason as for why the classic controller looks like it does. ... Maybe it's a backup plan. For the Wii to succeed the remote has to be accepted. ... There is the possibility that the remote control might not take off. Then Nintendo would be totally screwed. However if that happened they could always turn the classic controller into the standard controller and get by with that until next gen when they try something new again.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 10, 2006, 09:23:30 AM
I figure they would release a slight variation that doesn't need the remote but people with remotes can use the original classic model. The important thing is that the Wii is designed to accept input from the classic controller so it can recognize twin analog sticks, four face buttons, etc.
Post by: Kairon on October 10, 2006, 10:45:30 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: King of Twitch on October 10, 2006, 12:27:53 PM
That is a bit of a problem for new gamers who buy a wii, but it seems Cube owners have a decided advantage here.
Classic solution: 4 CCs ($80) + 3 remotes ($120) which people will buy eventually = $200
Wavebird/Cubetroller solution: 4 at $100-140 (for Cube owners will probably be $0) + 3 remotes = $220-260
4 potentially wireless CCs at (speculative) $25 + 3 remotes ($120) = $220
Maybe it was a good deal after all.
