Post by: Pale on September 16, 2006, 04:36:53 PM
Twilight Princess has been shrouded in controversy ever since Nintendo announced that there would be a Wii version. I have been fortunate enough to play each of the major incarnations of the game; the GCN version (at PAX 05), the Wii version with button based sword control (at E3 06), and the latest Wii version with gesture based sword control (at the Wii press event in September, 06). The latest version may just be the best version yet.
Playing it was special, though. Instead of experiencing it in the standard, crowded environment of a convention center, I got to sit on a couch for over an hour, playing through the dungeon demo three full times. The first thing I did was experiment with the sword controls by smacking the first scarecrow around. In the E3 version a button was used to swing the sword, much like a traditional Zelda. If you tapped the button Link would initiate a combo of swipes back and forth with the occasional jab. In this new version Nintendo has split the single button into two distinct gestures. Making a tight left to right motion with the controller translated to a swipe. Direction wasn't necessarily consistent. If I swiped left to right, Link may swipe right to left. If you continue swiping the controller, Link will continue the combo of swipes on screen (up to three total swipes in the demo). The second gesture is a jab towards the screen that translates into a very similar jab motion by Link. The combination of these two movements creates very fluid fighting that is surprisingly precise. At first I had a hard time initiating combat, but once I got used to the motion, I had no problems. I was looking forward to actually attacking a moving target.
Fear not, classic Zelda fans: Z-targeting is still an integral part of fights. When locked on to a target, two more attack options are added. Firstly, you can shield attack by motioning the nunchuck forward. This adds quite a bit of realism and fun to the fight. You can also do the classic Link lunge attack by pressing the A button. This is especially interesting if your foe is laying on the ground, as Link performs a rather vicious down thrust to the abdomen.
Overall, the fighting was perfect. If you follow the forums at all, you will know that I was very worried when I heard Nintendo changed what was at E3, as I was one of the few who liked what was done there. The change was definitely for the best and, in case you were wondering, my arm wasn't tired at all after an hour of play.
Arrow firing was another hot topic at E3. Many people claimed it was overly sensitive and frustrating. Some slight changes have been made there as well. At E3 there was a circle around the screen when in targeting mode. This helped point out where you needed to put the pointer to trigger the edge sensitive scrolling. That is gone now. Instead you use the analog stick while in first person mode to move your view around while aiming with the pointer. This works quite a bit better once you figure it out. The pointer is still just as sensitive as ever. It is important that you understand how the game is played. I actually corrected a couple people who were having some problems. They weren't drawing their arrow before aiming. That is done by holding down the B button. You then want to aim while holding the button, releasing when the red dot is on your target. If you aim first, the action of pushing the button in will probably knock the remote just enough to throw your aim off.
When I left E3, Metroid Prime 3 was my favorite Wii title. When I left the press event it became a distant second. I'm sure everyone has read several very pointed opinions about the Twilight Princess situation. Here is another one for you. You might as well forget that the GameCube version even exists.
Post by: Artimus on September 16, 2006, 05:02:00 PM
Post by: mantidor on September 16, 2006, 05:04:37 PM
You were the only guy in the staff who liked the game's controls this past E3, so forgive if I don't listen to your advice of forgetting the GC version
, it still looks like the version with better controls for me.Post by: Artimus on September 16, 2006, 05:11:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
If I ever have the oportunity I'll try it, but Im still not convinced, the sword slashing is still just replacing the button for gestures (its not that theres a lot more to do anyway, is the only choice), and it doesnt even differenciates between left-to-right slashing and right-to-left slashing. Its really like a bunch of remote minigames put over the traditional layout. Any interest I may have goes away when I know theres an equivalent for that motion with the traditional controller.
I don't understand this. If we assume that you can either perform a gesture or use buttons for most actions, then the question is what feels more natural. If swinging the remote feels more natural and more immersive, clearly that is going to be the superior system. Am I wrong?
Post by: Smoke39 on September 16, 2006, 05:12:14 PM
Post by: zakkiel on September 16, 2006, 05:21:32 PM
Post by: mantidor on September 16, 2006, 05:27:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
If I ever have the oportunity I'll try it, but Im still not convinced, the sword slashing is still just replacing the button for gestures (its not that theres a lot more to do anyway, is the only choice), and it doesnt even differenciates between left-to-right slashing and right-to-left slashing. Its really like a bunch of remote minigames put over the traditional layout. Any interest I may have goes away when I know theres an equivalent for that motion with the traditional controller.
I don't understand this. If we assume that you can either perform a gesture or use buttons for most actions, then the question is what feels more natural. If swinging the remote feels more natural and more immersive, clearly that is going to be the superior system. Am I wrong?
I agree with you, but I suppose is personal preference, I find Metroid controls more intuitive, but not the sword controls. Maybe is the fact that pointing in first person is more accesible that sword fights, sword fights are way more complex, and in that case putting gestures does the opposite of making it more intuitive, it makes it more difficult to aproach to, also this difficulty is for nothing, because it really doesn't matter if you swing left-right, right-left or do a jab, the game's enemies acknowledges all motions with the same result, block or take a hit.
Post by: blackfootsteps on September 16, 2006, 05:27:36 PM
Is the red dot necessary when bow aiming? IIRC none of the other 3d Zelda's have had any kind of sight for the bow, relying instead on good judgement.
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 16, 2006, 05:42:38 PM
Thanks.
Post by: Pale on September 16, 2006, 05:48:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: blackfootsteps
Good impressions.
Is the red dot necessary when bow aiming? IIRC none of the other 3d Zelda's have had any kind of sight for the bow, relying instead on good judgement.
Yeah, it's pretty important. I think aiming would be near impossible without it.
Post by: Artimus on September 16, 2006, 05:50:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
If I ever have the oportunity I'll try it, but Im still not convinced, the sword slashing is still just replacing the button for gestures (its not that theres a lot more to do anyway, is the only choice), and it doesnt even differenciates between left-to-right slashing and right-to-left slashing. Its really like a bunch of remote minigames put over the traditional layout. Any interest I may have goes away when I know theres an equivalent for that motion with the traditional controller.
I don't understand this. If we assume that you can either perform a gesture or use buttons for most actions, then the question is what feels more natural. If swinging the remote feels more natural and more immersive, clearly that is going to be the superior system. Am I wrong?
I agree with you, but I suppose is personal preference, I find Metroid controls more intuitive, but not the sword controls. Maybe is the fact that pointing in first person is more accesible that sword fights, sword fights are way more complex, and in that case putting gestures does the opposite of making it more intuitive, it makes it more difficult to aproach to, also this difficulty is for nothing, because it really doesn't matter if you swing left-right, right-left or do a jab, the game's enemies acknowledges all motions with the same result, block or take a hit.
Ohh, you played them? I hadn't realized that.
Post by: Ceric on September 16, 2006, 05:56:38 PM
It looks to me to give more variety in a task you'll probably/hopefully do a lot. (Though can someone tell me if the do the little sound thing like in Windwaker?)
This version sounds more appealing me. (I enjoyed God of War, at least till the Trap of Madness, it's whole system revolved around button pressing minigames.)
Transparent mini-games are good. Makes it feel like their some depth there.
Post by: mantidor on September 16, 2006, 06:03:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
If I ever have the oportunity I'll try it, but Im still not convinced, the sword slashing is still just replacing the button for gestures (its not that theres a lot more to do anyway, is the only choice), and it doesnt even differenciates between left-to-right slashing and right-to-left slashing. Its really like a bunch of remote minigames put over the traditional layout. Any interest I may have goes away when I know theres an equivalent for that motion with the traditional controller.
I don't understand this. If we assume that you can either perform a gesture or use buttons for most actions, then the question is what feels more natural. If swinging the remote feels more natural and more immersive, clearly that is going to be the superior system. Am I wrong?
I agree with you, but I suppose is personal preference, I find Metroid controls more intuitive, but not the sword controls. Maybe is the fact that pointing in first person is more accesible that sword fights, sword fights are way more complex, and in that case putting gestures does the opposite of making it more intuitive, it makes it more difficult to aproach to, also this difficulty is for nothing, because it really doesn't matter if you swing left-right, right-left or do a jab, the game's enemies acknowledges all motions with the same result, block or take a hit.
Ohh, you played them? I hadn't realized that.
You know I can flip your sarcasm pretty much the same way. People who have tried the game have had very different opinions, and as you are happy with what you are hearing, Im also not happy with it, and I dont think both of us are wrong or anything just because we haven't played any of this games.
Its seriously not that hard to know what to expect in a general sense, maybe is hard the specific level of intuitiveness like I said in the other thread about Link being left handed, and that as a lefty I wont say anything is more intuitive for my laterality without trying, but in the general sense of gameplay mechanics, its perfectly reasonable to have an idea already of how much are we going to be ok with it or not. As I said, if I can, I'll try it, but what Im listening doesn't convince me to put $50 into this version.
Post by: RickPowers on September 16, 2006, 06:06:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
If I ever have the oportunity I'll try it, but Im still not convinced, the sword slashing is still just replacing the button for gestures (its not that theres a lot more to do anyway, is the only choice), and it doesnt even differenciates between left-to-right slashing and right-to-left slashing. Its really like a bunch of remote minigames put over the traditional layout. Any interest I may have goes away when I know theres an equivalent for that motion with the traditional controller.
You know, I seem to remember similar concerns before the release of the Nintendo DS. "All you're doing is replacing button presses with drawing lines and circles. That's not immersive." In fact, I was saying some of those exact same things. Then games like Nintendogs and Trauma Center proved me wrong. Using the stylus can be far more immersive when implemented correctly.
In light of already having to eat a significant helping of crow already, I'm willing to give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt.
Post by: Mario on September 16, 2006, 06:09:29 PM
Post by: Athrun Zala on September 16, 2006, 06:28:36 PM
thanks for convincing me EVEN MORE that the Wii version is the one to get
Post by: Viewtiful mario on September 16, 2006, 06:47:21 PM
Quote
As I said, if I can, I'll try it, but what Im listening doesn't convince me to put $50 into this version.
well it won't be avalible for any other amount of cash.
This makes me happy to here, but It sounds aucword to move the camra with the joystk while aiming but I figure what your looking at will already be in vew.
I knew nintndo knew what it was doing when they made these controle changes, now the final blow to gannon will be 3 times as satifying.
Post by: Guitar Smasher on September 16, 2006, 06:47:47 PM
Post by: Artimus on September 16, 2006, 07:41:03 PM
Seriously, though, I haven't seen any comments saying the GCN build is superior to this newest one yet. IGN had positive comments, as did PGC. Where are the negatives?
Post by: Smoke39 on September 16, 2006, 07:47:20 PM
Post by: Faithinchaos on September 16, 2006, 08:05:02 PM
From what I've heard its basically not in development anymore, and its game assets are basically frozen.
As for the opinions: Its alright to let them think that everything they know is automatically better than anything new. Nintendo after all is known for screwing franchises up *cough Metroid,* and regularly demonstrates they don't know what they're doing *cough cough DS,* nor should we trust in them our beloved Zelda *cough Wind Waker cough.*
As for me, I'm not sweating it.
Post by: mantidor on September 16, 2006, 08:06:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Mantidor, you said "I find Metroid controls more intuitive, but not the sword controls." How else am I supposed to respond?
Seriously, though, I haven't seen any comments saying the GCN build is superior to this newest one yet. IGN had positive comments, as did PGC. Where are the negatives?
Theres no recent impressions whatsover about the GC version, Nintendo is trying its hardest to kill it, so of course you aren't going to find any comments saying which version is superior. Not at least until december 11th, when the wii would have moved enough units of the game for Nintendo to not feel threaten by the GC version, I really can't wait for it, so that we have a real one-on-one comparison.
Post by: Artimus on September 16, 2006, 08:17:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Mantidor, you said "I find Metroid controls more intuitive, but not the sword controls." How else am I supposed to respond?
Seriously, though, I haven't seen any comments saying the GCN build is superior to this newest one yet. IGN had positive comments, as did PGC. Where are the negatives?
Theres no recent impressions whatsover about the GC version, Nintendo is trying its hardest to kill it, so of course you aren't going to find any comments saying which version is superior. Not at least until december 11th, when the wii would have moved enough units of the game for Nintendo to not feel threaten by the GC version, I really can't wait for it, so that we have a real one-on-one comparison.
Why would we need updated impressions? It hasn't changed. So I'll ask, again, for you to post negative comments on the current Wii build.
Post by: IceCold on September 16, 2006, 08:27:20 PM
QuoteWonderful. In another one of these discussions, I said that I would not pay attention to the impressions at E3 since there was a lot of pressure, and the environment was terrible to play the game in. This was doubly true since it's a brand new control scheme to a franchise that we've been using traditional controls with for years. I also wanted a more finalised version of the game with updated controls. It looks like it's really improved, and it's shaping up nicely.
Playing it was special, though. Instead of experiencing it in the standard, crowded environment of a convention center, I got to sit on a couch for over an hour, playing through the dungeon demo three full times
QuoteThat's great news too; it wasn't a concern to me personally, but I could see how it would be to many people..
The change was definitely for the best and, in case you were wondering, my arm wasn't tired at all after an hour of play
Post by: mantidor on September 16, 2006, 08:29:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Mantidor, you said "I find Metroid controls more intuitive, but not the sword controls." How else am I supposed to respond?
Seriously, though, I haven't seen any comments saying the GCN build is superior to this newest one yet. IGN had positive comments, as did PGC. Where are the negatives?
Theres no recent impressions whatsover about the GC version, Nintendo is trying its hardest to kill it, so of course you aren't going to find any comments saying which version is superior. Not at least until december 11th, when the wii would have moved enough units of the game for Nintendo to not feel threaten by the GC version, I really can't wait for it, so that we have a real one-on-one comparison.
Why would we need updated impressions? It hasn't changed. So I'll ask, again, for you to post negative comments on the current Wii build.
I highly doubt it hasn't changed at all, this is supposed to be a huge game, and whatever they do for the wii version, they have to make something, anything at all for the GC version, any minigame, any puzzle, any combat mechanic has to have a GC counterpart, whatever original idea they create for the remote has to have a GC counterpart. Just because we knew a tiny piece of the GC version 2 years ago doesn't mean theres nothing else to know about it. The gameplay is not a carbon copy of the Wind Waker, OoT or MM, theres new things added.
Quote
Originally posted by: Faithinchaos
Well, theres nothing new to the GCN version, because its still the same. Unchanged. Just like you got in Wind Waker.
From what I've heard its basically not in development anymore, and its game assets are basically frozen.
As for the opinions: Its alright to let them think that everything they know is automatically better than anything new. Nintendo after all is known for screwing franchises up *cough Metroid,* and regularly demonstrates they don't know what they're doing *cough cough DS,* nor should we trust in them our beloved Zelda *cough Wind Waker cough.*
As for me, I'm not sweating it.
Thats the point of disagreement, while some of you consider TP to be new, I and many others don't consider it really new at all. Phantom Hourglass is really new in my eyes, and even with all the bad impressions it has and my many dislikes for some of the decisions they have made regarding the gameplay Im more interested in how it will turn out than how TP will turn out, because PH is a 100% original concept, TP isnt, its an old game with a layout of remote minigames.
Post by: TrueNerd on September 16, 2006, 08:47:49 PM
Anyways, as I have said before and this and other previews have confirmed, I am simply too curious to try out the Wii's controls with this game and it really doesn't sound like the controls are ruining Zelda in the least. Plus, I'll be able to get it three weeks earlier then if I waited and I can play it in widescreen. Nintendo's ploy has totally worked on me.
Post by: IceCold on September 16, 2006, 08:59:09 PM
QuoteYeah.. I don't see many either. Here are some quotes..
^ What bad Phantom Hourglass impressions?
Quote
Originally posted by: IGN
The brand new control scheme offers a unique experience in the series. It is really intuitive to guide Link around with the stylus and kill enemies by tapping on them. Even people who have never played any Zelda game ever will know what to do after a few minutes with the game
Quote
Originally posted by: GameSpot
Based on what we played, The Legend of Zelda: The Phantom Hourglass is heading in the right direction. The game's mechanics are fresh and work well with the now-familiar visuals. We're curious to see just what's happening in terms of story, as the game is basically a follow-up to the Wind Waker. If the quest in Phantom Hourglass is comparable to the console Zelda adventures, then the DS title will most certainly rock the house
Quote
Originally posted by: Gaming Target
The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, whether you know it or not, has a lot going for it even though it may not look it. It's the first and only Zelda to be all touch-based. This one ought to be something special.
Post by: mantidor on September 16, 2006, 09:09:47 PM
Theres is also Mario and his ambiguously sarcastic hate for the game, and I admit that tainted my view a little.
Post by: Pale on September 16, 2006, 09:11:58 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 16, 2006, 09:15:55 PM
Post by: Kairon on September 16, 2006, 10:31:30 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 16, 2006, 11:24:21 PM
Post by: Svevan on September 17, 2006, 12:49:04 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 17, 2006, 01:19:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
Well, let's just say Pale's write up is really good news and I'm glad to hear it. Looking forward to the game itself!
Well I have to agree, when I first heard Zelda TP would have motion based sword fighting, I was alittle concerned but was willing to wait and see (I've found this the best policy for most things, since I would miss out on alot of fun games if I automatically discounted something "unique" without playing it). Now it appears from Pale (along with many others who played it) it works great and is super immersive!
Post by: TMW on September 17, 2006, 06:43:11 AM
FINE. I'll buy the stupid Wii version. Are you happy now?
...I have a question. Whatever happened to the cats? Do we still get to rescue the cats?
Post by: KDR_11k on September 17, 2006, 07:57:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
TP GC is only scheduled for American launch.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Ah, right, I forgot. There was a story at PGC some time ago that said Europe would get the Wii and GC version in one box.
Post by: stevey on September 17, 2006, 10:25:13 AM
Post by: Kairon on September 17, 2006, 11:38:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11kQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
TP GC is only scheduled for American launch.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Ah, right, I forgot. There was a story at PGC some time ago that said Europe would get the Wii and GC version in one box.
Oh, dear. I forgot all about that.... lucky Europeans...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Pale on September 17, 2006, 11:48:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
Isn't it odd that pale was the only one on staff that like E3 zelda controls and is the only staff member that got to nintendo press event and play zelda for over a hour...
Hah, interesting theory, but my geographic location (and maybe ability to get the day off) is the only reason I was the one chosen to go.
Post by: Bloodworth on September 17, 2006, 12:35:19 PM
Post by: AnyoneEB on September 17, 2006, 04:07:10 PM
Post by: Pale on September 17, 2006, 05:08:28 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 17, 2006, 05:20:42 PM
Post by: Pale on September 17, 2006, 05:36:45 PM
When locked on link holds the shield in front of him if he isn't swinging the sword. If you lunge the nunchuck forward Link will do a shield attack that creates distance between himself and the enemy.
You can't ever precisely move the shield with the nunchuck though, so don't expect to like, hold it in front of Link's face or down by his knees or anything like that.
Post by: PopeReal on September 17, 2006, 05:43:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Mantidor, you said "I find Metroid controls more intuitive, but not the sword controls." How else am I supposed to respond?
Seriously, though, I haven't seen any comments saying the GCN build is superior to this newest one yet. IGN had positive comments, as did PGC. Where are the negatives?
Theres no recent impressions whatsover about the GC version, Nintendo is trying its hardest to kill it, so of course you aren't going to find any comments saying which version is superior. Not at least until december 11th, when the wii would have moved enough units of the game for Nintendo to not feel threaten by the GC version, I really can't wait for it, so that we have a real one-on-one comparison.
Why would we need updated impressions? It hasn't changed. So I'll ask, again, for you to post negative comments on the current Wii build.
I highly doubt it hasn't changed at all, this is supposed to be a huge game, and whatever they do for the wii version, they have to make something, anything at all for the GC version, any minigame, any puzzle, any combat mechanic has to have a GC counterpart, whatever original idea they create for the remote has to have a GC counterpart. Just because we knew a tiny piece of the GC version 2 years ago doesn't mean theres nothing else to know about it. The gameplay is not a carbon copy of the Wind Waker, OoT or MM, theres new things added.Quote
Originally posted by: Faithinchaos
Well, theres nothing new to the GCN version, because its still the same. Unchanged. Just like you got in Wind Waker.
From what I've heard its basically not in development anymore, and its game assets are basically frozen.
As for the opinions: Its alright to let them think that everything they know is automatically better than anything new. Nintendo after all is known for screwing franchises up *cough Metroid,* and regularly demonstrates they don't know what they're doing *cough cough DS,* nor should we trust in them our beloved Zelda *cough Wind Waker cough.*
As for me, I'm not sweating it.
Thats the point of disagreement, while some of you consider TP to be new, I and many others don't consider it really new at all. Phantom Hourglass is really new in my eyes, and even with all the bad impressions it has and my many dislikes for some of the decisions they have made regarding the gameplay Im more interested in how it will turn out than how TP will turn out, because PH is a 100% original concept, TP isnt, its an old game with a layout of remote minigames.
Just because they add a new puzzle/element to the Wii version, does not mean they HAVE to add a similar upgrade to the GC version. In fact I have been under the impression that the Wii version will have unique puzzles not found in the GC version that use the Wiimote to solve them.
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 17, 2006, 05:48:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PopeRealQuote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Mantidor, you said "I find Metroid controls more intuitive, but not the sword controls." How else am I supposed to respond?
Seriously, though, I haven't seen any comments saying the GCN build is superior to this newest one yet. IGN had positive comments, as did PGC. Where are the negatives?
Theres no recent impressions whatsover about the GC version, Nintendo is trying its hardest to kill it, so of course you aren't going to find any comments saying which version is superior. Not at least until december 11th, when the wii would have moved enough units of the game for Nintendo to not feel threaten by the GC version, I really can't wait for it, so that we have a real one-on-one comparison.
Why would we need updated impressions? It hasn't changed. So I'll ask, again, for you to post negative comments on the current Wii build.
I highly doubt it hasn't changed at all, this is supposed to be a huge game, and whatever they do for the wii version, they have to make something, anything at all for the GC version, any minigame, any puzzle, any combat mechanic has to have a GC counterpart, whatever original idea they create for the remote has to have a GC counterpart. Just because we knew a tiny piece of the GC version 2 years ago doesn't mean theres nothing else to know about it. The gameplay is not a carbon copy of the Wind Waker, OoT or MM, theres new things added.Quote
Originally posted by: Faithinchaos
Well, theres nothing new to the GCN version, because its still the same. Unchanged. Just like you got in Wind Waker.
From what I've heard its basically not in development anymore, and its game assets are basically frozen.
As for the opinions: Its alright to let them think that everything they know is automatically better than anything new. Nintendo after all is known for screwing franchises up *cough Metroid,* and regularly demonstrates they don't know what they're doing *cough cough DS,* nor should we trust in them our beloved Zelda *cough Wind Waker cough.*
As for me, I'm not sweating it.
Thats the point of disagreement, while some of you consider TP to be new, I and many others don't consider it really new at all. Phantom Hourglass is really new in my eyes, and even with all the bad impressions it has and my many dislikes for some of the decisions they have made regarding the gameplay Im more interested in how it will turn out than how TP will turn out, because PH is a 100% original concept, TP isnt, its an old game with a layout of remote minigames.
Just because they add a new puzzle/element to the Wii version, does not mean they HAVE to add a similar upgrade to the GC version. In fact I have been under the impression that the Wii version will have unique puzzles not found in the GC version that use the Wiimote to solve them.
I just really wanted to uselessly quote that.
Post by: mantidor on September 18, 2006, 04:58:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothingQuote
Originally posted by: PopeRealQuote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Mantidor, you said "I find Metroid controls more intuitive, but not the sword controls." How else am I supposed to respond?
Seriously, though, I haven't seen any comments saying the GCN build is superior to this newest one yet. IGN had positive comments, as did PGC. Where are the negatives?
Theres no recent impressions whatsover about the GC version, Nintendo is trying its hardest to kill it, so of course you aren't going to find any comments saying which version is superior. Not at least until december 11th, when the wii would have moved enough units of the game for Nintendo to not feel threaten by the GC version, I really can't wait for it, so that we have a real one-on-one comparison.
Why would we need updated impressions? It hasn't changed. So I'll ask, again, for you to post negative comments on the current Wii build.
I highly doubt it hasn't changed at all, this is supposed to be a huge game, and whatever they do for the wii version, they have to make something, anything at all for the GC version, any minigame, any puzzle, any combat mechanic has to have a GC counterpart, whatever original idea they create for the remote has to have a GC counterpart. Just because we knew a tiny piece of the GC version 2 years ago doesn't mean theres nothing else to know about it. The gameplay is not a carbon copy of the Wind Waker, OoT or MM, theres new things added.Quote
Originally posted by: Faithinchaos
Well, theres nothing new to the GCN version, because its still the same. Unchanged. Just like you got in Wind Waker.
From what I've heard its basically not in development anymore, and its game assets are basically frozen.
As for the opinions: Its alright to let them think that everything they know is automatically better than anything new. Nintendo after all is known for screwing franchises up *cough Metroid,* and regularly demonstrates they don't know what they're doing *cough cough DS,* nor should we trust in them our beloved Zelda *cough Wind Waker cough.*
As for me, I'm not sweating it.
Thats the point of disagreement, while some of you consider TP to be new, I and many others don't consider it really new at all. Phantom Hourglass is really new in my eyes, and even with all the bad impressions it has and my many dislikes for some of the decisions they have made regarding the gameplay Im more interested in how it will turn out than how TP will turn out, because PH is a 100% original concept, TP isnt, its an old game with a layout of remote minigames.
Just because they add a new puzzle/element to the Wii version, does not mean they HAVE to add a similar upgrade to the GC version. In fact I have been under the impression that the Wii version will have unique puzzles not found in the GC version that use the Wiimote to solve them.
I just really wanted to uselessly quote that.
Somehow I missed this, Im going to quote again to make a big quote tree that makes scrolling anoying :P
Actually it was Miyamoto who said that both versions would be identical in content. Thats why I previously said they have to do everything for both.
But that wasn't really my purpose in this post anyway, I forgot to ask Pale if the dungeons were mirrored as well or not, since they were the same E3 levels you should know, right? Im just curious.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 18, 2006, 06:36:35 PM
Quote
But while swiping with the Wiimote is a closer approximation of attacking with a sword than pushing a button, Nintendo oddly stopped short of making it more than just a sparkling innovationy last-minute addition. You see, it doesn't make a difference whether you swipe horizontally or vertically -- which is an odd limitation.
As a matter of fact, quickly wiggling your controller the way you spin into orbit in Mario Galaxy works better than going through motions that resemble Link's actual moves. Given the fact that Link possesses a decent number of different sword attacks in the game already, it's confounding that they're merely strung together as automatic combos.
Nintendo, if you're reading this: let us swipe left and right, diagonally, up and down, stab forward, and perform the downward slam move by physically motioning the wiimote downwards. This is no fighting game, so I don't think we need the sword to exactly mirror the position of the remote -- but swinging the controller from the left to the right and seeing Link do the opposite isn't exactly a good demonstration as to how Wii is supposed to change controls for the better. The initial attraction of having a closer connection to the sword is lost when players discover you didn't map the remote to the sword, but merely the A button to every motion. And if that's what happened, you should've probably let old Link keep his leftie ways and done it via the nunchuck.
He also goes on to whine and complain about how NIntendo should have a variable difficulty which I find to be one fo the stupidest ideas ever.
Post by: Kairon on September 21, 2006, 02:53:19 PM
Quote
It works. Indeed, it seems to work just fine. I think people are holding Zelda Wii to a higher standard because your expectations really do change when you pick up the Wii-mote. Zelda has never featured one-to-one sword fighting control. But when you have the Wii-mote in your hand and Link's sword doesn't mimic every subtle gesture you make, you suddenly notice it. You can still do everything you could with the sword in older games, mind you -- and in some ways it even feels better, but obviously people have fixated on what's still not possible.
Also, you need to do a little internal re-wiring to get used to it. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough time with Twilight Princess at Nintendo's New York City event to walk away convinced that the Wii-mote additions will move the control scheme forward. But neither did I walk away convinced that the game was broken. I just needed and wanted more time with everything.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 21, 2006, 02:59:02 PM
Post by: wandering on September 21, 2006, 07:12:48 PM
Post by: wandering on October 06, 2006, 10:03:09 AM
Post by: Pale on October 06, 2006, 10:13:10 AM
Post by: wandering on October 06, 2006, 10:32:02 AM
I wonder if the cube version will have camera control. It'd be weird if you could control the camera in one, but not the other.
Post by: Svevan on October 07, 2006, 12:19:41 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on October 07, 2006, 07:31:50 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on October 08, 2006, 12:56:18 AM
Post by: wandering on October 08, 2006, 01:26:49 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on October 08, 2006, 07:49:36 AM
Post by: wandering on October 08, 2006, 08:07:55 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 08, 2006, 08:09:58 AM
Whoooooa, there's only one answer here, and it's "You are WRONG!"...Wind Waker has the best 3D camera EVER...It worked so well that I almost forgot that it was even there!
Post by: Kairon on October 08, 2006, 08:19:40 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on October 08, 2006, 08:22:21 AM
I had two problems with it: first, I didn't think the automatic camera was quite as good as Ocarina of Time's. And second, I had to remember to switch back to automatic mode after moving the camera around, which was a pain.
edit: yeah, kairon, that might be true. But I still have to think that, if there was no manual control, they would've worked harder to make sure the camera never choked up.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 08, 2006, 10:13:25 AM
Yeah but locking onto a target behind the camera is time consuming and I don't always want to look straight at the enemy.
