Post by: iMoron on September 14, 2006, 09:30:02 AM
Wii $249.99
- Wii Console
- One wireless Wii Remote controller ($39.99)
- One Nunchuk⢠controller ($19.99)
- Wii Sports
- vertical stand
- HD AV cable (included?)
- WiFi support
360 $299.99
- XBOX 360 console
- wired controller ($39.99)
- standard AV cable
- white faceplate
- Live Silver Service
360 $399.99
- XBOX 360 console
- 20 GB Hard drive
- wireless controller ($49.99)
- HD AV cable
- ethernet network cable
- wired XBOX Live headset
- white faceplate
- Live Silver service
PS3 $499.99
- 20 GB Hard drive
- Controller
PS3 $599.99
- 60 GB Hard drive
- WiFi support
- Controller
Now... Am missing lots of details on the PS3 but am sure some will clarafy that info.
For the important part of this thread, price comparations... What does the price includes?
The Wii controller cost $40 same as the wired controller for the 360. The wireless 360 controller is $50... Of cource that will be compared against the Wii controller in conbination with the $20 Nunchuk... Now, one interesting bit we don't know yet, the other atachments? Will they be in the $20 range?
Games will be on the $50... for the Wii. I wonder if third party games will be the same, but I think not... This leaves game prices simillar to the 360. Sony on the other hand will most likely be at $60 minimum. That make me wonder about profit margin on games for the PS3 will be. Am sure third parties, the small ones atleast, will have a hard time... Hopefully they will see the Wii as a viable platform. I read that Microsoft take a big chunk on royalties from each game so maybe the profit marging on the 360 (per game) is not as high as with the last generation. Again the Wii is said to cost the least to develop for and as such the games should make a hiegher profit marging than the 360... All of this from a developer's point of view, not the customer/gamer's point of view...
All am trying to start in this thread is the economical aspect of each console for the developers and the gamers...
What do you make of my cheap analissy of a post?
Edit: I type sllowww... Now I see a post were I could have posted this... oh well... lets see what will happen with this.
Post by: ThePerm on September 14, 2006, 09:33:59 AM
Post by: BigJim on September 14, 2006, 09:44:17 AM
For the 360, the benefit is not as obvious. There's a premium there, but at least in this case there is some validity to the argument of value. There's more power out of the box, and for $50 more it's not a hard pill to swallow (speaking in terms of value for the gamer).
Hard to say what the real-world value is to the developer. If 3rd party sales crash and burn like they did on the Cube, there's no value no matter what the development expenses are. And there is validity to the argument that Wii projects may have to get their own separate budgets from the other games they develop, so some of the benefit of cheaper development is lost. We'll have to see what happens here. This is a big question mark. If 3rd party games actually sell, then that changes everything.
Post by: Caterkiller on September 14, 2006, 09:47:12 AM
Post by: hudsonhawk on September 14, 2006, 09:57:17 AM
Wii: $250
2nd Controller: $40
2nd Nunchuck: $20
Component cables: $40
2GB SD Card: $30
TCO: $380
Xbox 360: $400
2nd Controller: $40
TCO: $440
$60 isn't a huge difference. But, you really have to throw in an Xbox Live Gold membership, which you'd realistically want, and that brings the 360's TCO up to $490.
If you want to split hairs, a more apples-to-apples comparison might be:
Wii: $250
2nd Controller: $40
2nd Nunchuck: $20
2GB SD Card: $30
TCO: $340
Xbox 360: $300
2nd Controller: $40
Memory card: $50
TCO: $390
...since both of these have solid-state memory and no component cables. That slices the difference down to $50. Again though, the Live membership would bring the difference back up to $100.
Neither of these includes the 360's ridiculously overpriced wireless adapter, which is a ridiculous $100. Did I mention how ridiculous that is?
Post by: wandering on September 14, 2006, 10:01:20 AM
Quote
Though I think it really needs to come down 10 dollars or so.
Yeah, I think the sweet spot would be $35 for the wiimote, $15 for the nunchaku.
Post by: vudu on September 14, 2006, 10:04:33 AM
Post by: King of Twitch on September 14, 2006, 10:06:36 AM
Post by: wandering on September 14, 2006, 10:10:35 AM
Quote
Take into account 10 games and you're looking of an additional price difference of $100.
Yes, but that extra $100 goes towards the latest technology that is required to ensure the text is unreadably small or the game is unplayably dark on a standard television.
Post by: iMoron on September 14, 2006, 10:20:53 AM
It is hard to compare... untill we get to experience the games.
I feel that the Wiimote might end up at $30-35 by next year... The nunchuk? Well... it has an analog stick and acelero... thingies?!?! ... and a wire... short wire. Now that I think of it... The Wii-mote has many things in it, acelerometers, rumble, speaker, pointer... wireless... If you take all that in consideration, I makes the Wii-mote and Nunchuk conbination a well price... Compare to what the others have, last gen controllers but wireless... and in one of them, acelerometers (thingies) and no rumble...
I nead to reasearch a bit more to make a better statement on all three...
The price game!
Post by: hudsonhawk on September 14, 2006, 10:39:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
What wandering said. Take into account 10 games and you're looking of an additional price difference of $100.
All we know is that Nintendo's first-party games will be $50. That's the same price as Microsoft's first-party games (though it looks like Gears of War may launch at $60). We still don't know if 3rd-party developers will follow suit with the pricing or charge $60 like they do on the 360.
Granted, Nintendo's first party games will probably be greater in both number and quality, but since there's a lot of unknowns I was trying to remove that from the equation.
Like iMoron said though, it's going to be hard to compare the overall value of the systems until we get to play the games. I was simply bringing up the cost of ownership thing because, frankly, I'm surprised how high it is for the Wii. I was hoping that it would be much more budget friendly.
Post by: Kairon on September 14, 2006, 10:46:01 AM
BUT... consider this:
NOA said that the Opera Browser Internet channel will be free for download until June 2006. After that you'll need to use Wii points to pay for it.
Could this possibly hint at a price drop mid 2007 once Nintendo is building up non-gamer hype and have cleared out all hardcore early adopters? Viral marketting will take time, so the Wii's price won't really become an issue (or a benefit) until 6 months to a year down the line, as that's the only time when casuals and non-gamers will hear enough of it to get curious and take the plunge.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Galford on September 14, 2006, 10:52:12 AM
You do get Wii Sports, but still no DVD playback is kinda disappointing.
Also no GC Twilight Princess until Dec 11? I'm a little angry about that.
Post by: King of Twitch on September 14, 2006, 10:53:51 AM
Then we'll need a time machine to get it for free? Another ripoff!
Post by: wandering on September 14, 2006, 10:58:49 AM
Post by: King of Twitch on September 14, 2006, 11:04:38 AM
Post by: RickPowers on September 14, 2006, 11:12:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
NOA said that the Opera Browser Internet channel will be free for download until June 2007 (Edited for Clarity). After that you'll need to use Wii points to pay for it.
Cite your source. Everything I've seen states that the Opera Browser is not free, period. Was there news that I missed somewhere?
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 14, 2006, 11:15:37 AM
Remember to caculate a $60 price tag just to play the Xbox 360. Where you can play Wii out of the box with the packaged Wii Sports. That is a huge benefit, and to me personally brings the cost in my mind closer to $199.99.
The Wii graphics are very nice...and I have no problems with them. Even Wii Sports which uses those cute models looks great. I am beginning to love those models now, and I hope that the Wii Sports/ Wii lineup continues and new games continue to use that look, and my custom made models.
Post by: ThePerm on September 14, 2006, 11:17:40 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 14, 2006, 11:22:20 AM
I also think next year the Wiipointer and Analog attachment will be packaged together for $50.00...which is why I am only buying one extra controller, unless I find them on sale...and I am only getting 2 classic controllers. Hopefully, Gamecube controllers will work with the Virtual console...then I may not get the controllers for awhile.
As it stands you have to pay $320.00 to have 4 controllers to play with...that is alot of money to invest.
Post by: Donutt007 on September 14, 2006, 11:31:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowersQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
NOA said that the Opera Browser Internet channel will be free for download until June 2007 (Edited for Clarity). After that you'll need to use Wii points to pay for it.
Cite your source. Everything I've seen states that the Opera Browser is not free, period. Was there news that I missed somewhere?
I did remember seeing this before, so I went and did the research for ya!
Bloomberg.com
Quote
Users can also download an Internet-browsing software for free until June, said Iwata.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on September 14, 2006, 11:39:08 AM
Post by: RickPowers on September 14, 2006, 11:40:36 AM
Post by: Kairon on September 14, 2006, 11:47:30 AM
Oh, and thanks Donut! So it wasn't NoA, but Iwata that said it. I hope NoA follows the same plan then.
I also suspect a price drop in 2007 that would mean Nintendo just milked early adopters for some extra 50 bucks a piece. *shrug* Thinking objectively, I'd do it if I had the option too.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Arbok on September 14, 2006, 11:55:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
Remote and nunchuk should be sold together for $50. System should include two sets instead of one.
To that point, I wouldn't mind if they sold three packages:
- Just the Remote
- Just the Nunchuk
- Both in one package for a small discount (say $5 off or something)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 14, 2006, 12:04:01 PM
- Just the Remote
- Just the Nunchuk
- Both in one package for a small discount (say $5 off or something)"
I think ideally they should always come packed together but are sold seperately online so that if one breaks you don't have to replace both parts. But aside from cost in order to have a standard for all games to follow they have to sell both together. Otherwise a developer has no clue what the hell everybody has. If I make a multiplayer game I can't assume that everyone has both components. Maybe they just have extra remotes. Now I either have to limit my game to just using the remotes or risk the game not having as much appeal because not everyone can play it. There needs to be one standard controller, not two (or three if you include the classic controller).
Post by: RickPowers on September 14, 2006, 12:21:42 PM
I agree ... making the Nunchuk an optional attachment immediately brings all of the problems for developers that you might expect. The cost to play their game just rose. This is partially alleviated by including one in the box, and perhaps Nintendo thinks that the "core gamer" will be the only ones with need of additional Nunchuks. Regardless, it makes it unnecessarily difficult on the developer.
Unless that was the point. I speculated early on that Mario Galaxy might be a Remote-Only game, as a way to show developers how to build games around the new interface. Turned out this wasn't the case (Mario uses the Nunchuk too), but I think Nintendo is looking at the attachment as being a mostly core-gamer peripheral. Maybe even a "gateway" for casual gamers that want to learn to play other things too.
Post by: BigJim on September 14, 2006, 12:23:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Ugg, once again people ripping into Nintendo for no reason. If you don't own a time machine that's YOUR fault, not their's. Nintendo isn't forcing you to buy a time machine, it's just an option that's there for those who have one.
I thought the Flux Capacitor was included. How else was Nintendo able to take GWN back to June and allow them to present live blogging coverage from this alternate universe?
Post by: Strell on September 14, 2006, 12:28:11 PM
The nunchuck carries no wireless functionality, much like the classic controller. So they connect into the wiimote in order to gain that ability. This keeps addon prices down. I mean, the classic controller is essentially a wavebird for $20 at this point.
Plus, because the controller is split, if one piece were to malfunction (you broke it), then you'd be pissed to drop $60 for both.
I think this is one of those things that can be seen negatively and postively, much like the AA vs rechargable battery pack debate.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on September 14, 2006, 12:35:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
Plus, because the controller is split, if one piece were to malfunction (you broke it), then you'd be pissed to drop $60 for both.
That's definitely a plus. Every time I've ever replaced a controller, it's been because the analog stick was worn out. The remote is unlikely to wear down at the same rate.
Post by: BigJim on September 14, 2006, 12:38:44 PM
Post by: RickPowers on September 14, 2006, 12:38:49 PM
Post by: WuTangTurtle on September 14, 2006, 01:30:09 PM
I think everyone has bled from those things, i know i have.....
Post by: Ian Sane on September 14, 2006, 01:40:33 PM
If they sued Nintendo for it it would be because it happened on a Sony product and Nintendo would already have warnings everywhere but would lose the case regardless.
Is it possible to open those things without scissors? Hell I'd imagine there are some scissors that come in those cases.
Post by: iMoron on September 14, 2006, 02:45:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowers
... making the Nunchuk an optional attachment immediately brings all of the problems for developers that you might expect. The cost to play their game just rose. This is partially alleviated by including one in the box, and perhaps Nintendo thinks that the "core gamer" will be the only ones with need of additional Nunchuks. Regardless, it makes it unnecessarily difficult on the developer.
Well... you know, the console will come with the Wii-mote and the Nunchuk... I think that developers will have no problem at all considering that set-up since every console owner will have at least one Nunchuk. Besides... a good deal of Virtual Console games will need the classic controller. If it sell for $20... or $25 considering it has 2 analogs, for the completeness of old games, thats an extra expence that I will take without complain. I don't see this as much of a problem.
If atachments stay bellow the $30 dollar mark, preferably $25 or less, it won't be all that bad since it will mostly make the game experience a complete experience... And the atachments will work with a good deal of game types... you won't need to worry soo much... And, think about third party hardware manufactures! They will make a killling by selling replicas of old controllers, many will wecome those!
Now... I think we will se a $199.99 price for the Wii in 6 months time... no game included! Hopefully it will (should) include the Nunchuk atachment... if not then developers might have to focuse on wii-mote or asume the player is willing to get the nunchuk if the game needs it... I don't see this as a problem though since Nunchuk will cost so little by itself...
I do agree that a $50 combo of wii-mote and nunchuk would be nice... but there is loots of tech and the Nintendo quality behind each accesory that justifies the price...
Post by: RickPowers on September 14, 2006, 02:59:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: iMoron
Well... you know, the console will come with the Wii-mote and the Nunchuk... I think that developers will have no problem at all considering that set-up since every console owner will have at least one Nunchuk. Besides... a good deal of Virtual Console games will need the classic controller. If it sell for $20... or $25 considering it has 2 analogs, for the completeness of old games, thats an extra expence that I will take without complain. I don't see this as much of a problem.
The problem we're talking about is for MULTIPLAYER games, iMoron. Sure, there's a Nunchuk in the box, but you still need $180 in accessories to play a four-person multiplayer game. Along with the $50 game, and you've almost DOUBLED the cost of the Wii to play one game. Sure, you can amortize the cost out over more games, but that's still pretty steep. It's the same reason why I have only two wireless controllers for my Xbox 360 and not a full complement of four. Drop the Nunchuk requirement, and suddenly, you can afford another game with that $60.
Which do you think third-party publishers would prefer? More game sales for them, or more money in Nintendo's pocket in the form of required accessories?
Post by: Kairon on September 14, 2006, 03:17:53 PM
With X360 controllers, you're looking at $120 wired (which is actually impossible, because only two controllers can be wired into the X360 at any one time!) or $150 unwired to play 4 people. With the Wii you're looking at $120 wiimote-only or $180 with nunchucks for four people.
Actually... it's easier to go multiplayer on the Wii than on the 360. 120 dollars in Wiimotes beats out buying an extra 360 wireless and two wireds at $130!
Now, one can only wonder about how expensive a PS3 controller might be? It has tilt, analog everything, bluetooth wireless, AND a built-in Li-Ion battery.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: iMoron on September 14, 2006, 04:22:13 PM
For the 360 it is four wireless players starts at $200 ($50 dollars each)... or $150 asuming you got the $399.99 360...
... and the Wii... Well... like Kairon said, $180... for 3 sets of controllers ($60 the set)...
Now... remember, multiplayer games start at two players! The diference is of $10, for a more advance controller... And, not all games will use it... so it could be $10 less than the 360 for a mutiplayer game...
The games will make it worth every penny...
Also, like Kairon said, wonder about the PS3 controllers... they could come close to $60.
At the end of all, wii wiin!
Post by: IceCold on September 14, 2006, 06:25:29 PM
QuoteA good thing too! We wouldn't want the franchise that pioneered analogue control to go without it, would we?
Turned out this wasn't the case (Mario uses the Nunchuk too)
BTW, it's great seeing you post so much, Rick, even if it's only for a day..
Post by: Blue Plant on September 14, 2006, 06:29:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold BTW, it's great seeing you post so much, Rick, even if it's only for a day..
Likewise, to me he's been one of the welcome voices of reason in today's craziness.
Post by: RickPowers on September 14, 2006, 06:58:14 PM
Stay tuned, there may be a bit more of me before too much longer, however short-lived it might be.
Post by: WuTangTurtle on September 16, 2006, 10:21:30 AM
.......(waits for Ian to rip my post to pieces)
(edit)
By the way totally agree about the Sony's fault/Nintendo sued. It's happend already and it'll happen again.
Post by: EasyCure on September 16, 2006, 03:58:51 PM
you know, one where a kid will punch out his friends eye trying to box his buddy in Wii Sports and the parents will try to get money from Nintendo. its bound to happen
