Post by: Flames_of_chaos on September 03, 2006, 08:59:00 PM
This is sad news especially on how he got killed. A sting ray barb hit his chest while he was deep sea diving.
Post by: 18 Days on September 03, 2006, 09:13:48 PM
I demand the capture and torture of that stingray.
Also, Steve Irwin tribute avatars.
Post by: mantidor on September 03, 2006, 09:16:56 PM
Post by: oohhboy on September 03, 2006, 10:21:07 PM
I always thought that one day he would simply lose and arm and retire to a less dangerous field. Not fishkubarbed.
Post by: Dasmos on September 03, 2006, 10:43:43 PM
Post by: 18 Days on September 04, 2006, 12:04:00 AM
Post by: Caliban on September 04, 2006, 03:35:34 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 04, 2006, 04:21:59 AM
I used to love Steve, but really he became more and more of a marketing figure and I lost interest. When the toys came around that were like "Squeeze to hear him say "CRIKEY" or the Crocodile Hunter Board Game or whatever, I pretty much refused to watch anymore. Still, he's a cool guy.
='(
Post by: Dasmos on September 04, 2006, 04:28:39 AM
QuoteOh?
Originally posted by: 18 Days
Wrong response Dasmos.
Post by: Ceric on September 04, 2006, 05:14:35 AM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on September 04, 2006, 05:30:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
He was an idiot. It was unfortunate, but it was bound to happen one day.
Im sorry man but I think its very wrong to disrespect his death, especially if it was an accident. How would you feel if people disrespected your death just because of what you did what you thought was cool/interesting and died from it, but people mocked your death because of it?
Post by: bustin98 on September 04, 2006, 05:55:37 AM
Post by: blackfootsteps on September 04, 2006, 06:23:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
He was an idiot. It was unfortunate, but it was bound to happen one day.
He was an idiot, but an idiot in a good, endearing way. I will miss him and his wacky brand of television programming. I feel sorry for his kids.
Post by: Pale on September 04, 2006, 06:51:08 AM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on September 04, 2006, 06:59:27 AM
The article I read also said that while the sting is painful, it's rarely fatal, so he was just very unlucky here. And the irony is that the segemtn he was doing was called "Ocean’s Deadliest”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14663786/?GT1=8506
Post by: WindyMan on September 04, 2006, 07:30:03 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on September 04, 2006, 07:35:19 AM
I bet they won't be advertising "swimming with the stingrays" on those cruise commercials for awhile.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 04, 2006, 11:06:29 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 04, 2006, 01:53:47 PM
Post by: Neodymium on September 04, 2006, 03:31:35 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on September 04, 2006, 05:33:07 PM
Post by: wandering on September 04, 2006, 05:35:59 PM
Quote
Post by: Dasmos on September 04, 2006, 11:56:09 PM
QuoteI'm not glad he died, but as they say if you play with fire, you are going to get burned.
Originally posted by: Lord_die_seisQuote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
He was an idiot. It was unfortunate, but it was bound to happen one day.
Im sorry man but I think its very wrong to disrespect his death, especially if it was an accident. How would you feel if people disrespected your death just because of what you did what you thought was cool/interesting and died from it, but people mocked your death because of it?
Post by: 18 Days on September 05, 2006, 12:11:44 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on September 05, 2006, 12:38:50 AM
Post by: Pale on September 05, 2006, 04:30:07 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on September 05, 2006, 06:19:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis
Im sorry man but I think its very wrong to disrespect his death, especially if it was an accident. How would you feel if people disrespected your death just because of what you did what you thought was cool/interesting and died from it, but people mocked your death because of it?
People laugh at other people's deaths all the time. It may be disrespectful, but it's not unusual.
Post by: UncleBob on September 05, 2006, 06:36:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis
Im sorry man but I think its very wrong to disrespect his death, especially if it was an accident. How would you feel if people disrespected your death just because of what you did what you thought was cool/interesting and died from it, but people mocked your death because of it?
Wait, so if some meth-head (who, of course, thinks it's cool/interesting to be doing meth) dies because of the meth usage, we're not allowed to mock his/her death?
Post by: 18 Days on September 05, 2006, 06:44:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
Can I ban Dasmos for his ass hole avatar? Srsly.
Yes. I give you permission.
Post by: couchmonkey on September 05, 2006, 07:47:12 AM
Post by: bustin98 on September 05, 2006, 07:55:06 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 05, 2006, 09:28:06 AM
*expects next post to contain a link to one*
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 05, 2006, 09:38:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBobQuote
Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis
Im sorry man but I think its very wrong to disrespect his death, especially if it was an accident. How would you feel if people disrespected your death just because of what you did what you thought was cool/interesting and died from it, but people mocked your death because of it?
Wait, so if some meth-head (who, of course, thinks it's cool/interesting to be doing meth) dies because of the meth usage, we're not allowed to mock his/her death?
That is not a very good comparison, Irwin's main goal was to show that these feared creatures were not as dangerous as people made them out to be. He stressed conservation even for the most "dangerous" of animals, that they too had importance and should not be overly feared by people. Not to mention the fact that his death came from a creature that is normally quite docile, that in itself is tragic because he was killed by one of the least dangerous animals.
P.S. Even a meth heads death is tragic, if not for him/her, but for the family that lost someone.
Post by: Kairon on September 05, 2006, 09:54:10 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: UncleBob on September 05, 2006, 09:59:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
That is not a very good comparison, Irwin's main goal was to show that these feared creatures were not as dangerous as people made them out to be. He stressed conservation even for the most "dangerous" of animals, that they too had importance and should not be overly feared by people. Not to mention the fact that his death came from a creature that is normally quite docile, that in itself is tragic because he was killed by one of the least dangerous animals.
P.S. Even a meth heads death is tragic, if not for him/her, but for the family that lost someone.
Well, he sure did a good job showing us all how not-dangerious these creatures were.
PS: The family of a meth head will tell you they lost that someone way before the person died.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 05, 2006, 10:07:37 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 05, 2006, 10:14:49 AM
(Excellent post by the way, VG, it couldn't have been worded any better...)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 05, 2006, 10:20:31 AM
Post by: decoyman on September 05, 2006, 10:54:10 AM
As 18 days, VG and others are saying, being insensitive or disrespectful regarding ANOTHER HUMAN BEING'S DEATH (regardless of the cause), is outright WRONG. No two ways about it, and you better get that in your heads now. There's a difference between an idiot and someone doing something dangerous. If you don't believe this, go tell a military vet or a cop or a fireman that s/he is an idiot, and see what happens. Steve Irwin was a champion of animal rights/respect, and seemed to be a good-hearted, down-to-earth man. He was also very experienced with what he did. I read that he swam over a stingray that was buried in the sand, and it reacted defensively. He wasn't wrestling the thing or some truly idiotic thing like that. His death is a tragic loss, leaving a grieving family, not to mention an important cause, behind. It's not something to be taken lightly, or insensitively, and I'm very disappointed to see some of you who I have always held in very high regard take such a non-chalant attitude about this. I don't care if the death is that of a drug addict or an animal rights activist, what some of you have said is WRONG.
We've all gotten so damn good at dehumanizing events of the most tragic proportions, and some of the responses in this thread are just evidence of what is wrong with the world today. The most current example: Do you know what's going on in Darfur right now? If not, get out from under your rocks and find out. You have no excuses not being informed, instead choosing to live in such comfortable ignorance.
VG: I read earlier today that 17 people since 1969 have been killed by stingrays (can't find the link now, but it was in a news report, CNN maybe?)
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on September 05, 2006, 11:09:00 AM
(BTW, great post, decoyman)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 05, 2006, 12:24:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Using narcotics and risking your life trying to teach people about the creatures of the world and to protect them can't be compared. Meth wastes your life, Steve Irwin's job had him risk it to try to teach people.
(BTW, great post, decoyman)
I agree that was an amazing post, only 17 dead since 1969? That is amazing, and adds even more tragedy to this freak accident. I'll admit I am not a huge animal rights activist but I respected Irwin ALOT, since he walked the talk. His main goal was to teach people to respect animals and to not be overly fearful which does lead to the killing of animals that are deemed dangerous. His popularity around the world has opened people's eyes and I do think he managed to achieve much of what he set out to do, it is sad though that it had to end this way. He was an entertaining, informative, and above all else a decent human being that loved his family. It is sad that some people feel the need to demean him or spout insensitive remarks towards him, and like decoy said it is not a good sign for many societies in our world today.
Post by: UncleBob on September 05, 2006, 02:11:55 PM
There are those who seem to think that all human life is valuable. What about Osama? Hitler? What about a man who molests and kills his 6 year daughter - whom he's supposed to love and protect above all else?
Perhaps some of you people need to open your eyes a bit and see that, no, some human life is worth less than others. Some human life isn't worth anything at all.
As per Mr. Irwin, yes, it's sad for his family. However, on a day-to-day basis, he repeatdly did things that were dangerous and had a large chance of death or major injury. He knew that and his family knew that (or, at least, his wife did). Go ask the spouse of a cop if there's ever a time that he/she thinks his/her wife/husband might not be coming home... I bet you'll hear some interesting stories. People in a dangerous line of work (and, for the most part, their families) know and understand what they do... and thus, while sad, the outcome of Mr. Irwin's life should not be unexpected. Things like this and what happened to Roy Horn and Karion's Grizzly Man (assuming he's linking to the story I'm familiar with) all seem to follow a similar pattern... What's that saying about fooling me once?
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on September 05, 2006, 02:22:38 PM
Quote
First off, I never compared the death of a meth head to that of Mr. Irwin. I merely made a follow up statement to a comment made eariler in this thread.
Ah, now I see.
Quote
There are those who seem to think that all human life is valuable. What about Osama? Hitler? What about a man who molests and kills his 6 year daughter - whom he's supposed to love and protect above all else?
Perhaps some of you people need to open your eyes a bit and see that, no, some human life is worth less than others. Some human life isn't worth anything at all.
Yes, there are evil people in the world, but that doesn't mean that human life is worthless (And honestly, giving them a life sentence without parole is a lot cheaper then the death penalty, as very few inmates are actually executed).
Quote
As per Mr. Irwin, yes, it's sad for his family. However, on a day-to-day basis, he repeatdly did things that were dangerous and had a large chance of death or major injury. He knew that and his family knew that (or, at least, his wife did). Go ask the spouse of a cop if there's ever a time that he/she thinks his/her wife/husband might not be coming home... I bet you'll hear some interesting stories. People in a dangerous line of work (and, for the most part, their families) know and understand what they do... and thus, while sad, the outcome of Mr. Irwin's life should not be unexpected. Things like this and what happened to Roy Horn and Karion's Grizzly Man (assuming he's linking to the story I'm familiar with) all seem to follow a similar pattern... What's that saying about fooling me once?
And this makes mocking someones death acceptable how? Would you make the same " He was an idiot. It was unfortunate, but it was bound to happen one day" statement if a cop was shot?
Post by: Ceric on September 05, 2006, 02:23:36 PM
I must have missed something. Personally. It's a shame he's dead but it's not unexpected. I also always invisioned a more herioc end for him. Saving animals from a burning Zoo or Defeating Godzilla. The man had a lot of repect from me.
Now is all life equal? At the beginning yes but when the death of the one helps the life of the many it sort of justifies itself and their life is no longer as equal. I don't remember the robot but even in Isaac Asimov's universe there was a robot who "broke" the 3 laws. Why? From my understanding by breaking all the laws it ended up protecting itself and many more people then just its master. I beleive it became reclusive afterwards.
Post by: IceCold on September 05, 2006, 03:41:38 PM
QuoteI heard it was 17 in the last century..
VG: I read earlier today that 17 people since 1969 have been killed by stingrays (can't find the link now, but it was in a news report, CNN maybe?)
Post by: UncleBob on September 05, 2006, 05:59:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Yes, there are evil people in the world, but that doesn't mean that human life is worthless (And honestly, giving them a life sentence without parole is a lot cheaper then the death penalty, as very few inmates are actually executed).
Well, that's only because our flawed legal system... If executions were done correctly, it'd be cheaper. But that's politics and such...
But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about the worth of some human life.
Quote
And this makes mocking someones death acceptable how? Would you make the same " He was an idiot. It was unfortunate, but it was bound to happen one day" statement if a cop was shot?
So now are *you* comparing what a cop does to the 'croc hunter? I'm teasing, of course. But seriously, if there was a cop who continuly poked and jabbed deadly criminals for the entertainment and "education" of others, yeah, I'd have to say something like that.
I guess, above all, we should just be thankful that Mr. Irwin wasn't holding any one month old babies this time around, eh?
Post by: decoyman on September 05, 2006, 08:45:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
There are those who seem to think that all human life is valuable. What about Osama? Hitler? What about a man who molests and kills his 6 year daughter - whom he's supposed to love and protect above all else?
Perhaps some of you people need to open your eyes a bit and see that, no, some human life is worth less than others. Some human life isn't worth anything at all.
But don't you see? It is the very devaluation of human life that CREATES the Hitlers and Osamas and worst criminals of the world. As long as dehumanization is around, it's ok to steal from others, hurt others, mock others, KILL others. Sometimes MANY others. Because, hey, it's not you, it's some ambiguous "them." I don't know "them," they're not important to me. It's a cycle that is impossible to stop until we consciously and intentionally break against it.
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
Wait, so if some meth-head (who, of course, thinks it's cool/interesting to be doing meth) dies because of the meth usage, we're not allowed to mock his/her death?
Let me get back to your original comment that upset me, UB, and it may be where our philosophies part. I don't think it's right to mock anyone's death. To determine a person's value, I prefer to consider not only a person's current works, but their potential for good as well. Hate and, to a lesser extent, apathy or lack of concern for others' well-being, breed the social and cultural disfunction we see in the war-torn Middle East and everywhere else where people haven't "gotten along" for so long that the original reasons for conflict are no longer necessary, or have been forgotten entirely.
But my post dealt with the fact that I believe that a drug addict – a victim of weakness or circumstance or inability to "escape" a bad situation – is not inherently of less value than the "everyman" who goes to work and contributes to society positively. Does the addict or criminal need more help than the "everyman"? YES, undoubtedly. But to say that s/he is of less value, well... I don't believe that for a second. (When do we deem someone irrecoverable? I don't know the answer to that.) If someone strays down the path of drug use or crime and falls into an unhealthy or hurtful lifestyle, but then gets clean/lawful and becomes a positive member of society and is even able to do great things and even steer others away from negative influences, why should they have been considered of less value before? They are the same people, who have overcome their problems, and are all the stronger for it. If that person had been cast away as having been less valuable, then they could never have healed.
Though we've gotten off-topic now, my point was that disrespect was being thrown around regarding this man's death. It's sad. It's not a chance for you to make a funny remark or call him an idiot for doing what he felt was the best way to bring light to the thing he believed most in: animal rights/protection/education. Was it dangerous? Yes, but he was well-trained, and had been doing it all his life; Steve Irwin was as prepared as anyone could have been. Again, he wasn't wrestling the dumb stingray, or poking or jabbing at it for fun. It was a freak accident, and I think the man deserves a little more posthumous respect than he's getting.
Post by: UncleBob on September 05, 2006, 09:22:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: decoyman
Though we've gotten off-topic now, my point was that disrespect was being thrown around regarding this man's death. It's sad. It's not a chance for you to make a funny remark or call him an idiot for doing what he felt was the best way to bring light to the thing he believed most in: animal rights/protection/education. Was it dangerous? Yes, but he was well-trained, and had been doing it all his life; Steve Irwin was as prepared as anyone could have been. Again, he wasn't wrestling the dumb stingray, or poking or jabbing at it for fun. It was a freak accident, and I think the man deserves a little more posthumous respect than he's getting.
First, It's important to note that I never called Mr. Irwin an idiot.
Second, this goes back to what I stated above with cases like Roy Horn and the Grizzly Man - all people who "know what they're doing" and everyone acts surprised when, finally, the deadly, instinct driven animals do what hundreds of years of instinct tell them to do. There's an old saying, "You can do everything right and still lose." The idea behind this is that, it doesn't matter how smart you are, how well you know your subject, what precautions you take before and during... there's always going to be some unpredictable part of the equation you cannot account for - where be it a big haired lady in the front row or an unseen sting ray... and when you constantly and repeatedly deal with more and more dangerous unknowns... don't be surprised if you eventually lose.
Post by: Kairon on September 05, 2006, 09:24:23 PM
Personally, I think it's perfectly fine to mock someone's death. Just do it in the right context. Humor is all about timing.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Svevan on September 05, 2006, 09:41:11 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 05, 2006, 10:00:40 PM
Post by: Dasmos on September 06, 2006, 03:59:10 AM
QuoteOverblown? Was Michael Jackson hanging his child over a ledge overblown, even though he said he knew what he was doing and had a very tight hold? No.
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
They were all well planned and that includes the overblown BS about putting his son in danger (If there was any creature he knew EVERYTHING about it was the crocodile).
Having a child around crocodiles is dangerous and irresonsible, especially seeing how old the child was. It is in noway a safe place to be, even if you know "everything" about the creature, because as you yourself say freak accidents happen.
QuoteBeing around any animal who can attack and kill you is playing with fire, no matter how docile they may be. FACT.
The stingray was a freak accident that could have happened to anyone, it had nothing to do with playing with fire because it is a docile creature most of the time.
QuoteDid he need to wrestle crocodiles? No. Did he need to pick up and wave around wild snakes? No. There are countless situations where he had poked and teased animals for a reaction, nothing else.
I also think it is demeaning his intentions to say he poked and taunted animals too, he respected them and never did anything to intentionally try to provoke them for the heck of it.
Post by: Pale on September 06, 2006, 04:25:59 AM
Comparing an accused pedofile/crazy person who hangs a baby over a ledge with a man who has done a metric ton of good for his country and the world doesn't really work. I'm not gonna argue that the baby in the crocodile pen was a stupid thing to do. I think it was too, for many reasons, but given his history you should be able to forgive some things. You playing internet troll in a thread like this is unbelievably stupid. I guess that's just the kind of person you are.
Post by: Dasmos on September 06, 2006, 04:45:17 AM
And sorry, Pale, I am not going to make out Steve Irwin to be a saint just because he died.
Post by: wandering on September 06, 2006, 04:55:16 AM
Post by: Pale on September 06, 2006, 05:23:22 AM
Post by: wandering on September 06, 2006, 05:28:26 AM
Post by: Nick DiMola on September 06, 2006, 06:10:23 AM
Post by: decoyman on September 06, 2006, 06:39:14 AM
Of course there's more risk involved in that line of work than for, say me, a designer. I'm not arguing that.
ALL I'm trying to say is that, there's a time for finger wagging, and scolding and poking fun. "What? Steve Irwin got his finger bit off by a croc? Well, what did he expect???" But that time is not now. A good man, who championed a cause, followed his passion and who loved his family, is dead today. I don't understand why more people can't be sensitive about that.
EDIT:
Quote
Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
Hey guys, I think this conversation is getting a little out of hand. Everybody has their own opinions and arguing back and forth isn't going to make anything better. I say this thread becomes a place for people to pay their respects and thats all. Its not worth arguing this way over a forum; it only ends in anger on all ends.
Seconded.
Post by: UncleBob on September 06, 2006, 06:58:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
No it is not valid because the person's background affects ones ability to forgive the situation. /sigh
MJ's been known to give quite a bit of money to charity as well. He's just not quite as public about it as Mr. Irwin was.
As well, you say "accused child molester". It's important to note that accusations are all that ever happened - no court of law has ever found him guilty of any such crime. Yeah, he's an "accused child molester", but, heck, I could accuse you of the same thing, but that doesn't mean it's going to hold any water in a court of law either.
I'm going to go out on a ledge here (heh) and actually say that MJ's incident was probably *safer* than Mr. Irwin's. Holding something over a ledge has fewer unknown variables than holding something over a crocodile.
Post by: Pale on September 06, 2006, 07:29:44 AM
As far as the accused versus convicted comment about michael jackson... I'm not going to sit here and argue semantics over our legal system. Would you let OJ hang out with your wife?
Post by: UncleBob on September 06, 2006, 08:15:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
Unknown variables in your mind, but not necessarily his. Again, it was a stupid thing to do. His dad did the same thing to him though and that is part of the reason he felt the way he did about the animals. It really is a world none of us understand and his death by no means proves him wrong.
And I'd almost bet, ten seconds before the Sting Ray attacked, Mr. Irwin's mind didn't consider the Sting Ray an unknown variable either. Grizzly Man probably never considered the bears unknown either. And Roy probably thought he knew everything about Montecore as well.
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
As far as the accused versus convicted comment about michael jackson... I'm not going to sit here and argue semantics over our legal system. Would you let OJ hang out with your wife?
I'm not a parent. However, I have a hard time believing that any decent parent would allow a man that they honestly believed harmed thier child go free for any amount of money. Perhaps that's just me though.
As per OJ, why exactly didn't that glove fit?
But to answer your question, no, I wouldn't because OJ was, in fact, found guilty. No one ever mentions that though.
Post by: KDR_11k on September 07, 2006, 09:35:44 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 07, 2006, 11:50:44 AM
Post by: UncleBob on September 07, 2006, 01:06:42 PM
Seriously though, you're right - I don't know the behind-the-scenes stuff involving the kid/croc incident. I wasn't there. But, considering that the government went in and wrote laws to keep Mr. Irwin from doing it again... that tells me something.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on September 07, 2006, 01:08:32 PM
Post by: UncleBob on September 07, 2006, 01:34:44 PM
Post by: Mario on September 08, 2006, 04:38:21 AM
Also this probably doesn't deserve a new thread here because I doubt any non-aussies have heard of him, but aussie motorracing legend Peter Brock has died too, in a motor racing crash, at age 61. I guess everyone saw that coming too?
Post by: blackfootsteps on September 08, 2006, 06:38:06 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 08, 2006, 09:32:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
The funny thing is that people are probaly putting their child in more danger by throwing them up in the air and catching them or driving down the road than Michael Jackson was with the window ledge. I know for a fact none of you have even researched what Michael Jackson did in order to prepare for the window hanging. Again I point out Michael Jackson has never been proven guilty of 'wrestling' with kids just for the heck of it, and he only caught kids in order to show specific things about them. Which is why I said he never provoked them just to be provoking them. But why I am arguing this? I dunno the ignorant and the punks here will continue to believe what they want, who feel they know more than a man who has been around kids his whole life and who loved his kids completely.
Seriously though, you're right - I don't know the behind-the-scenes stuff involving the kid/croc incident. I wasn't there. But, considering that the government went in and wrote laws to keep Mr. Irwin from doing it again... that tells me something.
My guess is that the government got involved because it stirred up so much controversy. One of those things where the public is upset and the government makes a law to appease the people. On a side note, did you guys know that Irwin's dad had him "wrestle" a crocodile when he was 9?
Post by: Dasmos on November 01, 2009, 02:20:07 AM
He was an idiot. It was unfortunate, but it was bound to happen one day.
A mate of mine went dressed to halloween as steve irwin and another went as a stingray. we all agreed that the steve irwin one sucked and the stingray was genius.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 01, 2009, 02:48:41 PM
now I have to find my .gif and post it again.
Post by: ThePerm on November 02, 2009, 02:44:29 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 02, 2009, 03:55:42 AM
now it disappeared.
Post by: ThePerm on November 02, 2009, 03:29:23 PM
WTF with these adds?
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/theultimateperm/imgad.gif)
and then when you try to leave the webpage...it says "wait!"
