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Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: GoldenPhoenix on July 28, 2006, 02:00:37 AM

Title: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 28, 2006, 02:00:37 AM: After perusing an Xbox 360 board, I came accross many posts that stated they would not get a Wii because of its lack of graphical horsepower. In fact some say they can no longer play games in anything other than 720p. Personally this point of view does sicken me a bit, sure I like nice visuals, but so many times that is all I'm getting. A truly great game is one that relies more so on gameplay with graphics as a secondary piece to the puzzle, heck even my N64 which put out some blurry games is still fun even with the drop in visual quality. This makes me wonder if gamers today have gotten too caught up in graphical horsepower, and that has jumped to a primary reason to buy or not buy a console. When I hear stuff like people not even being able to play a Wii because of its weaker graphical capabilities, I begin to wonder about the state of gaming. I'm curious to hear what your guy's opinion is on the graphic debate, do you feel that is becoming a focus in gaming now (Or just a way to defend the console you own) along with your own personal opinion of the graphics debate.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: capamerica on July 28, 2006, 05:13:29 AM: Graphics don't make a game good, its the Gameplay.

I just ignore that type of retards who think graphics are everything and shun systems because they don't have the graphic power, I say let them play their stupid GTA and WWE in their run downed trailer when their not working at their minimum wage job or working on their beat up truck thats been on blocks for the last 2 years. Screw Them. They're ignorant fools who have no right to be playing games out side the Atari Generation.

They wouldn't want to play the Wii games anyway, their is no killing Police officers and hookers in Nintendo games.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 28, 2006, 05:36:10 AM: It's irrelevant.

Historically, the graphically superior console has never come out on top:

The Game Boy beat the Game Gear
The PSX beat the N64
The PS2 beat the Xbox and GC
The DS beat the PSP

The MS fanboys are just looking for excuses to dismiss the Wii. That's what fanboy petting looks like: a bunch of idiots on a forum trying to make themselves feel better about buying a competing product by all saying, "Well, I'M not going to buy a Wii." That inconsequential anecdotal information translates into their minds as security in their buying decision. People will hide inside a wall of ignorance for as long as possible.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Ceric on July 28, 2006, 05:49:02 AM: I will say this. I have a nice tv at home, 26" HDTV (no 720p though) CRT, and a small old 13" tv. Yes I prefer my bigger tv. Though the old ones going to die soon, hence the other, It's fine for most games except... If they involve a lot of text. For some reason the combination of old tv, bad connections, poor eye sight, and getting use to the sharp black makes the text hard to read on that screen.

For the most part I think more on lines of styles. That's a discussion for another time. I'll end by this. As long as I can see the game the way the developers wants me to I'm fine with it. I'm also wondering if the rumor about the Flipper only being able to flex 50% of its power is true. If so some games that didn't run quiet right might have been developed to fully use it but when it got to production units it didn't happen, sort of like King Kong for the 360 on non-HD screen, so we might see a big jump in quality and the like when we go to the Wii from even older games.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Caliban on July 28, 2006, 06:09:41 AM: Graphics? I like graphics, as long as they are balanced with gameplay, what I mean is that if they are going to have a gorgeous game at least make it fun to play, just like Resident Evil 4 or Terranigma or Faxanadu. Oh and I'm thinking of getting a 42" EDTV plasma screen just for the Wii, it's not that graphics matter but I just want to enjoy the Wii/GC/VC to it's fullest, I will put in my room because I stopped playing GC games because I'm too lazy to play them in living room and I spend too much time in my room.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 28, 2006, 07:15:03 AM: Let me put it this way, over the last year or two, I've found that gaming has really started to lose my interest. Its not so much video games as an industry but the actual act of playing the video games that has actually started to get boring. I keep buying all of these games but everytime I sit down to play them, I found myself easily distracted and pulled away from the game. Most of the games kinda seemed like I played them b4 or I played a better version of this same game b4. I kept getting the "deja vu" feeling or the "been ther and done that, only better" feeling, and neither of those had anything to do with how the game looked. Most of the games actually looked very different from each other, some going for realism and other for the cartoony or fanstasy look. But the point of this is that it isn't the graphics that make the game, it how you play it, and in saying that I think you realize how important graphics are to me.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Requiem on July 28, 2006, 07:20:08 AM: I love me some good graphics. YOu know, that type that is awe-inspiring....

But....

If they gameplay is lacking, then it all was in vain.
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Requiem of Darcness on July 28, 2006, 08:03:11 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
It's irrelevant.

Historically, the graphically superior console has never come out on top:

The Game Boy beat the Game Gear
The PSX beat the N64
The PS2 beat the Xbox and GC
The DS beat the PSP

The MS fanboys are just looking for excuses to dismiss the Wii. That's what fanboy petting looks like: a bunch of idiots on a forum trying to make themselves feel better about buying a competing product by all saying, "Well, I'M not going to buy a Wii." That inconsequential anecdotal information translates into their minds as security in their buying decision. People will hide inside a wall of ignorance for as long as possible.

You left out two comparisons though. One supports your post the other does not.

The NES beat the Master System
The SNES beat the Genesis (SNES was the graphically superior, it had a 8 times the color palette, displayed 4 times the colors, and displayed twice the sprites)
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 28, 2006, 08:07:03 AM: But the Genisis had Blast Processing(tm) therefore it was doing things graphically that the SNES could only dream of
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 28, 2006, 08:21:01 AM: Ahahaha, today I heard a kid complain "but it has crappy graphics" when his mom wanted to buy him Halo.

Those fanboys can go to hell. "OMG I cannot play anything lower than 720p now!" I'll let you in on a secret, I've been playing at 1280x960 progressive for roughly 5 years now and I can still play a PS2 game. What gives?

Graphics are 25% power and 75% artistic ability. Compare EQ2's ugly "fully customizable" characters to WoW's pretty similar but well designed ones. I think you'd be hard pressed to call EQ2 better looking despite the fact that it uses a lot more graphical power.

But the Genisis had Blast Processing(tm) therefore it was going things graphically that the SNES could only dream of

So does Dell

EDIT: Thought of a better comment .
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Ceric on July 28, 2006, 08:23:04 AM: Lets stop this here. We've been down this road a lot. I'm sure if I wasn't lazy and had a better memory I could find 5 different unique thread on that topic.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 28, 2006, 08:25:49 AM: Let's not kid ourselves. Graphics are important to any gaming experience. However, there is ALOT that great gameplay can make up for.

But, lets take a minute to break down what we mean by graphics and what makes them important.

Graphics are basically the visual representation of what is going on within the game. Without them we wouldn't have a game period. Therefore, the graphics have to be clean, precise and understandable to human brain. Everything must interact in a means that the player can predict what will happen next within the game at any given time.

It is only the above statement that makes graphics important...not the flash.

In other words, Super Mario Brothers 3 is graphically perfect, for its game...and is no better or worse than Gears of War.

For that matter Perfect Dark or Goldeneye is no better or worse than Gears of War. Both games are capable of allowing the gamer to enjoy the game experience.

Therefore, I am not looking for the richest most detailed graphics. I am looking for pleasing graphics that a fluid and work well with the actual gameplay of the game...and hopefully gameplay actually exists in the game.

Other than that, Graphics mean nothing to me. I will play Mega Man on NES, Zelda and Mario on SNES, Goldeneye and Mario 64 on N64, Windwaker and Mario Kart on the Cube and be happy with all the graphics and the experience.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Mario on July 28, 2006, 08:39:02 AM: Good Graphics

Bad Graphics - http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/740/740717/img_3228409.html

All I care about is how pleasing it is to my eyes, not the technical mumbo jumbo. Good looking games can be made on any platform, and so can bad looking ones.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 28, 2006, 10:12:23 AM: Ha. Mario, you proved my point with pictures instead of words.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 28, 2006, 10:57:41 AM: Graphics aren't important; art design is...More artistic games like Wind Waker and Heroes, please!
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 28, 2006, 11:24:11 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem of Darcness You left out two comparisons though. One supports your post the other does not.

Actually, I left out quite a few others: Dreamcast, Jaguar, Turbografx, Lynx, etc.

But I don't think the SNES necessarily "won" against the Genesis. If I remember correctly, it was the Genesis which gave Sega the prosperity it would later squander and waste on other systems.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: mantidor on July 28, 2006, 11:32:13 AM: I love graphics, and along with sound they are important part of the experience, but as bill says, I prefer an artistic focus rather than a "how much polygons and lens flare can we use" aproach. My love for the artistic aspect of a game can go as far as to make me forget about bad gameplay mechanics. American McGee's Alice is one of my favorite games, despite how from a pure gameplay perspective is not that good, because the music and graphical representation is just awesome.
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Requiem on July 28, 2006, 11:32:34 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Graphics aren't important; art design is...More artistic games like Wind Waker and Heroes, please!

I agree and promote this statement!
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 28, 2006, 11:54:43 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Graphics aren't important; art design is...More artistic games like Wind Waker and Heroes, please!

I agree and promote this statement!

Great replies guys, hey I too enjoy graphics (Heck my computer proves that point since it is fairly high end) but I've found that I always head back to consoles with less "superior" graphics. For the first time in quite awhile the Wii is providing for some great anticipation, this last generation was mainly distinguished by graphical horsepower, and thus my excitment was limited. With Wii, it appears I am getting decent visuals but above all else a new way to interact with games along with new gameplay experiences. That in my mind is all that matters.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Ceric on July 28, 2006, 12:03:25 PM: Last generation was distiguished by the graphics that could be pushed and shoe horned out of a PS2.
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 28, 2006, 12:08:35 PM: Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Last generation was distiguished by the graphics that could be pushed and shoe horned out of a PS2.

Lol I guess you have a point there. It is funny people whine and complain about the lack of graphical horsepower of Wii, yet the number 1 system this last generation was far and away the weakest!
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on July 28, 2006, 01:21:43 PM: Art style and little details matter for me. By 'details' I DO NOT mean being able to smack your face against a wall and see all the marks in the wood. I mean simple things, like being able to see an important location in the distant background, butterflies and creatures in a meadow and rain that doesn't clip through roofs.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 28, 2006, 01:26:06 PM: Wasn't huge fan of the WW graphics.

After 20 minutes of playing the game, I stopped noticing them and they just looked bland and uninspired except for a few well-done models later in the game.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 28, 2006, 02:06:57 PM: The ocean is boring. And overall design of the world is almost one dimensional.

Everything exists either as a huge flat plane (the ocean), or the inside of a dungeon centered around a cylindrical structure, whether a tower, a tree, a moutain, or a hole in the ground.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: ShyGuy on July 28, 2006, 02:29:37 PM: A plane by its very nature is 2 dimensional pwn3d.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Kairon on July 28, 2006, 05:02:29 PM: Style >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graphix.

Examples:

Phoenix Wright
Secret of Monkey Island
Earthbound

...and hopefully Red Steel

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Ceric on July 28, 2006, 05:32:25 PM: WW. Be a great game. If someone would do something about that blasted water.
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 28, 2006, 06:02:06 PM: Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
WW. Be a great game. If someone would do something about that blasted water.

I love wind waker (Even more so than OOT) whether it be its graphical style or gameplay. The only thing that bothered me was that lame triforce scavenger hunt which felt so tacked on (sailing never did bother me though).
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Requiem of Darcness on July 28, 2006, 06:51:01 PM: Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem of Darcness You left out two comparisons though. One supports your post the other does not.

Actually, I left out quite a few others: Dreamcast, Jaguar, Turbografx, Lynx, etc.

But I don't think the SNES necessarily "won" against the Genesis. If I remember correctly, it was the Genesis which gave Sega the prosperity it would later squander and waste on other systems.

The SNES/Super Famicom crushed the Genesis/Megadrive. It was only a close battle in the US. The Genesis/Megadrive was third in Japan behind the Super Famicom and Turbographx-16. At one point the Super Famicom was selling for the equivalent of $140 for just the console and the controller, the MegaDrive was selling for the equivalent of $70 with a pack-in and it still was getting demolished.
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: UniversalJuan on July 28, 2006, 07:17:05 PM: Don't shoot me but I own a 360, and I understand what they mean. I have an HD set, and that was actually a factor in buying my 360. The 360 was designed to be able to output some damn nice HD images. If a 360 titles isn't doing at least 720p? My care meter is going to drop like a BRICK! (That is, of course, unless it's awesome). By contrast, when the Wii comes out. it can not do 480p and I'll still pick it up. Why? Nintendo nevre stated Wii is all about the HD. In 2007 when I get my PS3 (Yes, I'm serious. Unless the titles by then don't support my decision) I will have the same stance toward titles for it that I do with my 360.

Now, does me wanting the most out of my system designed for HD make me a graphics whore? I'll let you decide that one. Trust me I'll be here to defend myself if I hear something that fails at the sense making.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: ThePerm on July 28, 2006, 07:25:37 PM: i thought games on wii ran at 480p, i like what ubisoft said "its not as powerful as the other systems, but we made some really good graphical games on the last systems, and it more powerful than those, so theres nothing really to complain about"
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Ceric on July 28, 2006, 07:46:30 PM: Pa. Wheres the Shotgun.

Seriously enough I can see that reasoning. Also I think Nintendo did say that everything on the Wii will run 480p, including VC. Nintendo will just down mix it for TV's that don't support it. It can't be to hard.
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 28, 2006, 08:41:13 PM: I am still of the opinion increased that screen resolution that big of a graphical leap. Yes I can see the difference between 420p and 1080i (My tv does not do 720p) but it isn't what I would call a big difference, the same goes for increased resolutions on the PC. If a game plays fine on anything above 800 x 600, I seldom try to bump it higher since I personally cannot tell much difference!
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Requiem on July 28, 2006, 09:11:46 PM: This topic is not about if you can afford both graphics and gameply (ps3 - wii), it's about if you had the choice which one would pick: Graphics or Gameplay?

If you are a Nintendo fan, you would take gameplay any day of the week.

It's just how we nintendo folk do it.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Mario on July 28, 2006, 09:17:04 PM: Triforks Quest haters be damned! If you were actually immersed in the game like I was you'd already have nearly all the shards before you realised that was what you had to do next to advance.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: IceCold on July 28, 2006, 09:48:45 PM: Quote
I will say this. I have a nice tv at home, 26" HDTV (no 720p though) CRT
Sounds like it would be perfect for Wii..

Quote
Quote
You left out two comparisons though. One supports your post the other does not.

The NES beat the Master System
The SNES beat the Genesis (SNES was the graphically superior, it had a 8 times the color palette, displayed 4 times the colors, and displayed twice the sprites)
Actually, I left out quite a few others: Dreamcast, Jaguar, Turbografx, Lynx, etc.
You also forgot how the GBA demolished the N-Gage..

Juan: You are one rich bastard
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: capamerica on July 29, 2006, 05:19:07 AM: I always thought the Genesis had the better graphics then the SNES.

GameBoy Color killed the Neo-Geo Pocket Color
GBA killed the Wonderswan, Gamepark and Zodiac
DS killed Gizmondo & Zodiac
Game Boy destroyed Lynx, Game Gear, TurboExpress, and Neo-Geo Pocket
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Urkel on July 29, 2006, 10:01:59 PM: The SNES is the only system -- EVER -- that took first place and happened to have better graphics than the competition. Even then, I don't really think you can attribute graphics to its success.

If anything, it was its main weakness that may have secured the number 1 spot. Many believe that since it had a slower processor, devs focused on slower paced games. RPGs, in other words. And that's one genre the SNES absolutely dominated. And we all know how well RPGs sell in Japan.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Kairon on July 30, 2006, 12:34:43 AM: And of course, although the Genesis was sorta "ehhh" in Japan (third behind NEC's PC Engine), in America they actually tracked ahead of the Super Nes until the later years when Sega got screwed up (32X, Sega CD, the Neptune) and Nintendo experienced a second wind with Donkey Kong Country et al. So the weaker system in the 16-bit wars actually held its own for a very long time.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on July 30, 2006, 04:14:34 AM: Well since I own a 360 I'll throw in my 2 pennies. Graphics are good but they are irrelevant if the gameplay sucks (I'm looking at you Prey). While I do run my 360 on 720p guess what I don't see any major difference so I really never care about resolution. The only reason I bought a 360 is 1. There was games on the horizon for it that I really wanted so it waranted the purchase 2. I usually own 2 consoles per cycle and there is no way I'm paying 600 for a PS3. And with the graphics comments that the Wii produces that was stated by Ubisoft was positive then Im sure Wii can do really good graphics then I'm not concerned.

Like the most of you here Im on the style and art direction over pure graphics. And gameplay + controls and to a certain extent story is a far more important thing than graphics in a game since if the only thing your interested in a game is the graphics and makes the game fun is the graphics then Im sorry I think your a sad person.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Ceric on July 30, 2006, 04:51:38 AM: ... and you beleive that FF:The Spirit Within is the best game EVER. (Oh wait it wasn't a game but it says FF and it has pretty graphics. So... its not a game even though I know the series is heading to that direction. Move Cutscene Move Cutscene Move Cutscene)
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on July 30, 2006, 05:13:40 AM: I hate that direction its garbage, Xenosaga's cutscenes actually put me to sleep lol. I prefer the style of FF in FF 1 - 6 and FF:CC.

FF: Spirits Within was an okay movie the problem with it that the story sucked and there was a big emphasis on graphics over the story.
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 30, 2006, 11:13:41 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis
I hate that direction its garbage, Xenosaga's cutscenes actually put me to sleep lol. I prefer the style of FF in FF 1 - 6 and FF:CC.

FF: Spirits Within was an okay movie the problem with it that the story sucked and there was a big emphasis on graphics over the story.

Hey I actually enjoyed Spirts Within lol. Anyway, I am planning on rebuying a Xbox 360 (I had one back when it first came out but sold it due to lack of games) for Dead Rising, along with the new Madden (yes I like Madden, not a HUGE fan but I enjoy the series). The only time graphics really impact my buying descision is when you have multiplatform games that have nearly identical gameplay/options, that is when I buy for the most powerful system (which seems to be the PC lately!).
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: blackfootsteps on July 30, 2006, 03:36:08 PM: Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Triforks Quest haters be damned! If you were actually immersed in the game like I was you'd already have nearly all the shards before you realised that was what you had to do next to advance.

Yeah I think I had one to go at that stage. I never saw what all the fuss was about.

I own an XBOX 360 and I play it on a 34cm tv, as a result graphical superiority is definately not an issue for me.
Title: RE: How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 31, 2006, 12:06:08 PM: I'm bored out of my skull and I still don't see a reason to buy a 360.

Everything I'd play would just feel dated and clunky by comparison to the Wii.
Title: RE:How important are graphics to you?
Post by: Hocotate on July 31, 2006, 12:20:27 PM: For the most part graphics in a game don't mean much to me. Most of the time I find myself avoiding the OMG HOT GRAFIX games because they're usually filled with too many cutscenes to show off the graphics... I also find 2D to be more pleasing to the eye in most cases, though not all.