Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 21, 2006, 06:15:58 PM
I always felt he was overly critical of Nintendo
Post by: willie1234 on June 21, 2006, 06:24:09 PM
Post by: King of Twitch on June 21, 2006, 06:33:28 PM
Post by: Pale on June 21, 2006, 06:42:57 PM
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 21, 2006, 06:46:08 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 21, 2006, 06:48:28 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 21, 2006, 06:49:07 PM
Post by: Pale on June 21, 2006, 06:54:26 PM
Post by: Requiem on June 21, 2006, 07:04:45 PM
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 21, 2006, 07:06:35 PM
QuoteI guess we all were XD
Originally posted by: Pale
Aw, and I was actually excited.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 21, 2006, 07:30:25 PM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 21, 2006, 11:49:31 PM
Post by: Artimus on June 22, 2006, 02:11:04 AM
It was clearly fake, though. None of the stuff matches anything we know about Matt. He's critical because he cares, afterall.
And, really, we're lucky to have him because he does a LOT of research and fact-finding that the other channels do not get.
Quote
Originally posted by: Avinash_Tyagi
IGN just keeps losing more and more respect daily
Considering it was a blog and never got past the blog, I don't think it affects their respect...
Post by: Mario on June 22, 2006, 02:29:53 AM
Post by: Nick DiMola on June 22, 2006, 03:17:37 AM
PS - I was happy when I first read about this, Casamassina is a dipshit.
Post by: joedick on June 22, 2006, 08:05:04 AM
Post by: Kairon on June 22, 2006, 08:29:10 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Frozen Atlantic on June 22, 2006, 08:39:42 AM
Post by: Requiem on June 22, 2006, 08:56:00 AM
Is this a joke?!
Which lead led me to make this comparison:
Look familiar?
Which compelled me to make this art:
OH MY GOD! ------- HE"S REINCARNATED!
Which cracked me up after I re-examined the original picture used in Kotaku's article:
Look behind the fat dude's shoulder
Post by: Ian Sane on June 22, 2006, 09:02:04 AM
In a way I suppose such an attitude would make for less biased coverage but it's inconsistent with the rest of IGN. It looks bad for Nintendo if the Playstation and Xbox guys are all "YES THIS IS AWESOME" while the Nintendo guy is just "this is pretty good I guess".
Edit: Regarding the Hitler cat picture it reminds me of the graphic novel Maus which deals with the holocaust and the Jews are depicted as mice with the Nazis as cats.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 22, 2006, 09:34:34 AM
'Nuff said.
Post by: vudu on June 22, 2006, 09:47:10 AM
Post by: Rhoq on June 22, 2006, 10:00:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
... think it's pretty important that whoever is covering Nintendo on a website or for a magazine has some enthusiasm towards their work. Matt seems more much more positive about the Wii lately but he's really lacking enthusiasm and it shows.
I'm one of the few that likes Matt's work. I like the fact that he remains grounded in reality, trying to never let the Nintendo "fanboy" inside of him take control and cloud his judgment. I'd rather he tell us the truth (or at least as he sees it) rather than sugar coat everything just because that's what we want to hear (read).
Anyways - in response to Ian's quote above, I think the reason why his perceived excitement has been dampened a bit is because he and his wife just recently became parents. With a new baby, I'm sure all of his priorities have been re-arranged, including his work at IGN (which is probably why Bozon has been making frequent updates since E3 while Matt only pops-in on occasion). By the time the Wii's launch date arrives, I suspect that Matt will back to his old self. By that time his baby will be on a regular schedule and he'll be used to getting up every few hours to feed her.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 22, 2006, 10:03:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
What kind of Nintendo fan complains so much about SSBM?
The kind who isn't afraid to point out when their favorite game developer isn't realizing its full potential.
Post by: couchmonkey on June 22, 2006, 10:20:01 AM
Seriously, I like Matt. When I read the first post, my reaction was, "this is a joke". And I was right - the guy has been nothing but positive about Wii since E3. He has clearly stated that it's more exciting than Xbox 360 or PS3.
I think Matt just tells it like it is. A lot of people were enraged at him last year when he was supporting PSP over DS, but at the time he had a point. PSP launched with as many games as the DS had in it's whole 6 month run, and although DS had some cool games that demonstrated what it was capable of, it still hadn't really made the scene. Now that DS is doing better, Matt agrees that it's the superior system. The guy might be shortsighted, but he gives honest opinions on the current state of things. As opposed to the other channels (particularly the Xbox channel) which just kind of go with the hype and act like every stupid game released is going pure gold - at least until the review are written.
But it was a joke which shouldn't come as a surprise if you've been keeping up with what Matt has to say about Wii.
Post by: ShyGuy on June 22, 2006, 10:26:42 AM
Not lumping in PGC though, you guys gave excellent e3 coverage (except for Megabyte, har har)
Post by: IceCold on June 22, 2006, 10:30:18 AM
QuoteActually, he's been converted. In one of his mailbags I think he even predicted Nintendo to come out ahead next generation, and he accepts that they're going in a different direction.
The fact that this prank is totally believable isn't a good sign. Matt seems a lot like me in that he clearly is a Nintendo fan but doesn't really agree with the direction Nintendo is going in.
Post by: Kairon on June 22, 2006, 10:41:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteActually, he's been converted. In one of his mailbags I think he even predicted Nintendo to come out ahead next generation, and he accepts that they're going in a different direction.
The fact that this prank is totally believable isn't a good sign. Matt seems a lot like me in that he clearly is a Nintendo fan but doesn't really agree with the direction Nintendo is going in.
Yeah Iansane. Matt's drunk the kool-aid. When will you?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2006, 10:45:09 AM
I have to agree with the whole Baby thing. Having a kid takes a lot out of you and I doubt that Matt is going to ever fully be the Matt of old.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 22, 2006, 10:48:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
What kind of Nintendo fan owns a PSP and a 360?
'Nuff said.
You're kidding, right?
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 22, 2006, 11:05:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo You're kidding, right?
Yeah, actually. I think owning multiple consoles gives a better perspective.
I don't honestly think that it's impossible to be a Nintendo fan while owning other consoles, but I trust IGN about as much as I trust a den full of rattlesnakes.
The fact that even the alleged Nintendo editors (ie. editors paid to focus on Nintendo) seem to piss all over some of Nintendo's best games is bad enough (like MK: DD, for example), but when they turn around and praise some craptacular games on competing consoles, the fact that they've accepted money hats becomes too obvious.
I've always loved and looked to PGC's reviews because there has seldom been a case where I disagree with the reviews of the games. The reviews are fair and unbiased, often pointing out that, even if the reviewer didn't like the game, the reader still might for a certain reason or another.
To be fair, I never look to IGN for reviews anymore because they went through such a period of Nintendo hatred that getting an accurate Nintendo review out of them was like getting blood from a stone. They may have changed since then but the fact that even their Nintendo editors seemed anti-Nintendo makes it clear that IGN is a fair-weather friend, to say the least.
My prediction: Matt here, seeing that the Wii will be the dominant console next gen (it's pretty obvious that it will be, unless Nintendo does something to royally screw it up), will praise it to no end because it's the leading console in the market. He already did that with the PSP and only reversed his stance when it became blatantly apparent that he was full of sh*t.
I have news for you: fans who only support a company when it does well aren't real fans. Matt is basically paid to acknowledge the good points of Nintendo (of which there were many) and yet he doesn't even do that.
Until Matt starts being willing to support his alleged focus company (Nintendo) through both the good times and the bad, his opinions are absolutely worthless because they're clearly based upon something OTHER than quality of the product which, if I'm not mistaken, is what reviewers are supposed to accurately communicate to their readers.
Post by: Rhoq on June 22, 2006, 11:14:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
It takes longer with people who aren't "pure" Nintendo fans. I mean they want Nintendo for what it offers not just because it's Nintendo. That's why they own other systems.
Here's the thing...I've been a Nintendo "fanboy" since the NES. I was 9 when it first came out and got one when I was 11. Since then I had only owned Nintendo consoles. NES, N64 and GameCube. I missed-out on the SNES which is one of the many reasons why I'm really looking forward to the Wii. However, it's hard to deny that being exclusively loyal to a Nintendo console these last few years can be very frustrating. A few months ago, I bought an XBox from a seller I found via Craig's list. I figured this would be a good way for me to experience some of the 3rd party games that never made it to the GameCube as well as the console exclusives. I realized that even though I'm still a Nintendo fanboy at heart, there is more than enough room for a 2nd non-Nintendo console in my life. Once the Wii is released, I will most likely upgrade to an XBox 360 and be happy with the "Wii60" combination.
Honestly, we all know that even with solid 3rd party support - the Wii will still miss-out on some of the "big" titles due to either it's hardware limitations (graphic/processor horsepower) or controller (yeah I know the it's got the "classic" controller, but still...) so the Wii will see "side stories" instead of entries into a main series (Resident Evil, etc.). With that said, I think it will be crucial to anyone looking for a complete next-gen gaming experience to own both a Wii and 360 or PS3.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 22, 2006, 11:24:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
What kind of Nintendo fan owns a PSP and a 360?
'Nuff said.
You're kidding, right?
Hey now, I consider myself a pretty big Nintendo fan, but I also own PS2 and Xbox. I did own a Xbox 360 but sold it due to lack of good games, but will probaly repurchase it for Dead Rising, and I MAY get a PS3 at launch even at the high price or maybe not
.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 22, 2006, 11:26:18 AM
oh wait, nothing of that sort happened.
The only Resident Evil news of E3 was the press release of an RE title for Wii.
Wii is confusing 3rd party support to no end. The 3rd parties are having trouble dedicating projects to certain fridge-sized consoles without regrets. I expect even more publishers and devs to be swallowed up or shut down this gen.
my previous claims have no support.
Post by: couchmonkey on June 22, 2006, 11:59:28 AM
Post by: Kairon on June 22, 2006, 12:04:59 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: KnowsNothing on June 22, 2006, 12:09:31 PM
I just can't get over that.
Post by: Kairon on June 22, 2006, 12:11:49 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on June 22, 2006, 12:15:41 PM
I just can't get over that.
Parallelism. Gotta love it.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 22, 2006, 12:40:30 PM
If Matt is losing interest in Nintendo it might not just be because the company isn't doing as well (in terms of market share). I was still a big Nintendo fan on the N64. My fandom died down a fair bit on the Cube, not just because it was underperforming but because of what I felt was a change in Nintendo. On the N64 you had to wait months between titles but it was okay because they were the best games you ever played. On the Cube you had to wait months between games as well but they weren't as good. I found with the Cube I couldn't just assume a Nintendo published game was awesome. Nintendo just wasn't as on as they used to be and I've noticed a change in them for the worst (ie: they rely on their franchises far too much now). The Wii is quite clearly a shift in a different direction and I'm not too keen on it.
I've been a Nintendo fan well past the point where it was popular to be so. I've been losing interest because some of the things that made me a Nintendo fan in the first place are no longer there. The company is different now and I don't care as much for what they've turned into. I think that's a pretty justifiable reason to lose interest in something. Matt might be the same way.
Post by: Renny on June 22, 2006, 12:41:07 PM
Post by: mantidor on June 22, 2006, 12:43:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: vudu
What kind of Nintendo fan complains so much about SSBM?
The kind who isn't afraid to point out when their favorite game developer isn't realizing its full potential.
however you don't miss a chance to criticize me when I do the same with TP
This whole thing is pretty silly, I dont understand why kotaku or ign are making it such a big deal.
Post by: Kairon on June 22, 2006, 01:02:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: vudu
What kind of Nintendo fan complains so much about SSBM?
The kind who isn't afraid to point out when their favorite game developer isn't realizing its full potential.
however you don't miss a chance to criticize me when I do the same with TP
This whole thing is pretty silly, I dont understand why kotaku or ign are making it such a big deal.
NO. You're completely WRONG on this. You're criticizing Nintendo for EXACTLY realizing their full potential. If it were up to you they'd have released TP GC exclusive this spring MINUS the extra 6 months of work they're doing to make it 120%!
We jump on you because with TP Nintendo is PROLONGING THE DEV TIME and putting MORE WORK into the game, yet you complain!!!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Fierce_LiNk on June 22, 2006, 01:57:39 PM
Post by: Artimus on June 22, 2006, 04:25:15 PM
That said, there is no way this post could be taken as real if you have read anything he's written recently.
And of the major sites (GameSpot, GameSpy, etc.) IGN is by FAR the best. I mean GameSpot is like a crime against humanity. I still can't figure their layout out.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 22, 2006, 04:45:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Fierce_LiNk
The thing is, i've been reading some other threads about this on different forums, and it seems that a lot of people were quite happy to see him leaving. That's not going to do a lot for his confidence, poor guy. :p
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!! Yeah, that one backfired on him pretty badly, didn't it? Even this thread has had several people come up and say, "Good, I hated the chubby bastard." LOL...
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon We jump on you because with TP Nintendo is PROLONGING THE DEV TIME and putting MORE WORK into the game, yet you complain!!!
That's not my gripe, actually.
Manditor, I REALLY don't mean to jump on you, but I keep dragging out the argument because I think the delay of TP has a non-obvious upside and I don't think people are paying enough attention to it.
It's like this: you run a lumber camp and have two employees: a feeble old man and a strapping young man you JUST hired and is on his way to the camp right now so he can start working for you.
You have a side of beef roasting over the fire, but it's only partially cooked. Do you give the partially cooked meal to the old man who you won't get much work out of anyway or do you wait until the strong young man arrives and feed him a fully cooked side of beef so he can get out there the next day and mow down an entire forest of trees with his newfound energy?
Nintendo, on the other hand, used their matter replicator to duplicate the beef once it was fully cooked, giving a whole side of beef to both the old man AND the young man, so while the young man is slashing down a whole forest, the old man might still knock down a tree or two.
That's the way I see their handling of Zelda. The Wii is going to go out there and kick ass and take names, and it'll do it even more so with TP in its arsenal, but that won't stop the cube version from doing some good as well because they're making sure to release both after working hard on it for a little longer.
Post by: Magik on June 22, 2006, 06:01:52 PM
As for the topic, it was all a prank pulled by another editor. That person actually has a very good post about the prank and Nintendo.
As much as people disliked him, I had no problems with him. I like the fact that he isn't like so many other editors out there that just plain out kiss Nintendo's ass every single opportunity. At least he has the guts to call out Nintendo when he believes they screwed up instead of turning a blind eye.
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2006, 07:20:29 PM
Could you link that post about the prank from the other editor?
Post by: wandering on June 23, 2006, 12:21:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kotaku
Now IGN's Tal Blevins [pictured] has responded to our ire, claiming the whole 'prank' was actually a test to see if Kotaku would run Casamassina's original claim as a story. Blevins admonishes us to "do some leg work before you accuse someone else of having no credibility after you run a Web log post as a news story. [Emoticon redacted.]"
You're right, Tal: We made a huge mistake. We presumed that a post from one of your editors on an official IGN outlet was source enough. Using IGN's own internal metric, we rate our reporting skills at the absolute bottom of your scale: a 6.8 out of 10.
Ahahaha.
Matt's okay. He's tastes and priorites are radically different than mine, but, as other's have said, I'm glad that at least ign's Nintendo coverage doesn't sound like it was written by Nintendo employees.
Post by: Artimus on June 23, 2006, 02:21:40 AM
But I don't read Kotaku (worst designed major blog I've seen, and not very unique) so maybe they have disorders or something that explain it?
Post by: Nick DiMola on June 23, 2006, 02:58:12 AM
The anger here was really sparked by the editors at IGN. Kotaku simply covered the news that Matt was throwing in the towel , and then one of the other IGN editors actually posted in his blog a fake article to see if Brian Crecente would pick it up as an article, then claimed he was a poor journalist for posting the Casamassina story and should do better research next time. From that point Kotaku retaliated and it went no-holds barred, which I really could not blame them. Though Kotaku is a blog and they post alot of stuff some good, some bad they are always one step ahead of the rest. I catch pretty much all my news there the instant it happens. So I'm sure in this case they read about Matt and posted it as news ASAP because in the world of gaming journalism, this is as big as it gets.
Post by: Rhoq on June 23, 2006, 04:27:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Rhoq I thought I was the only one who had started with NES and had them all but SNES. Know I don't feel so very lonely.
I was able to play SNES (and Genesis) at friends' homes, but never had either one for myself. Glad to see that I'm not the only outcast.
Post by: Arbok on June 23, 2006, 07:23:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
Artimus:
The anger here was really sparked by the editors at IGN. Kotaku simply covered the news that Matt was throwing in the towel , and then one of the other IGN editors actually posted in his blog a fake article to see if Brian Crecente would pick it up as an article, then claimed he was a poor journalist for posting the Casamassina story and should do better research next time.
Yep. To me, it sounded like the IGN editors were having their fun, and then never expected this news to picked up by the other sites, and then when it was... oops. Well can't just admit that the joke got out of hand, now can they, so they took the other step: accusing others and stating that it was "simply a test to see who would report" (yeah right...).
I could understand if this was April the 1st, but generally if someone on their own blog talks about leaving then why would it need to be fact checked unless you assumed they were lying about their own intentions?
Post by: Kairon on June 23, 2006, 11:39:28 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Jin-X on June 23, 2006, 12:33:24 PM
Post by: mantidor on June 23, 2006, 03:20:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
NO. You're completely WRONG on this. You're criticizing Nintendo for EXACTLY realizing their full potential. If it were up to you they'd have released TP GC exclusive this spring MINUS the extra 6 months of work they're doing to make it 120%!
We jump on you because with TP Nintendo is PROLONGING THE DEV TIME and putting MORE WORK into the game, yet you complain!!!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I've really never complained about the delay, I actually was ok with the first one, what I hate is the functionality tacked in at last minute, I wouldnt care that much if the game ends up being launched in december as long as its still a GC exclusive. It wouldve been really classy for Nintendo to let it be a GC game, knowing it wont do anything for the console and how it will lose some of its sales potential, but they would have focused in their last traditional zelda game, making it indeed the best ever. Doing this remote functionality is not the kind of thing an artist does with its work, the reasons behind it are purely financial.
Post by: Kairon on June 23, 2006, 03:34:42 PM
... that is a defensible position. *bow*
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Guitar Smasher on June 23, 2006, 04:52:03 PM
Frankly, I like Matt because he's honest.
Post by: Kairon on June 23, 2006, 06:14:10 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ceric on June 23, 2006, 07:55:25 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 23, 2006, 08:02:31 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on June 23, 2006, 08:31:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Ah, so your saying that the glory of the GC release of TP this fall is sullied irrevocably by its fraternal twin, the Wii version?
... that is a defensible position. *bow*
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
No not at all. Is just that although we will never know how a GC exclusive TP would have been, it would be better than what we are going to get, thats undeniable. I really dont care at all about the game's "glory" or nintendo financial report at the end of their fiscal year, I care for the best game possible.
Post by: Kairon on June 23, 2006, 08:42:13 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 23, 2006, 10:52:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
here we go againQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Ah, so your saying that the glory of the GC release of TP this fall is sullied irrevocably by its fraternal twin, the Wii version?
... that is a defensible position. *bow*
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
No not at all. Is just that although we will never know how a GC exclusive TP would have been, it would be better than what we are going to get, thats undeniable. I really dont care at all about the game's "glory" or nintendo financial report at the end of their fiscal year, I care for the best game possible.
Isn't it kind of presumptuous to believe the game we are getting would be better if it was not also on Wii? We still have no idea how development was split up between the versions. Frankly it is silly to make such a blanket statement that it is "undeniable" that it would have been better if it was not also for Wii, since you nor anyone else really knows how development was handled. Since I will not fall into the trap as regurgitating my opinion as "undeniable" fact, I suspect that LoZ: TP got the utmost attention for the GC version with the Wii version being built upon that. If anything if there was not a Wii version, the GC version would have came out sooner. With that perspective, the only loss is extended development time to try and perfect the Wii version on what they seen as a final, perhaps close to perfect game. Unlike yourself though, I am not going to call that "undeniable".
Post by: wandering on June 24, 2006, 10:25:51 PM
Quote
But... if that's your position, then nothing can be satisfying? OoT could've been better with another year of development, right? Or Mario 64?
Imagine how much better Ocarina of Time would've been if they hadn't made Mario 64! Those bastards!
Quote
Isn't it kind of presumptuous to believe the game we are getting would be better if it was not also on Wii? We still have no idea how development was split up between the versions.
If anything, the game probably got better. Waiting to launch with the Wii probably gave them an excuse to polish various aspects of the game.
Post by: King of Twitch on June 25, 2006, 11:19:07 AM
Post by: Strell on June 25, 2006, 11:25:36 AM
That's always a brilliant argument.
Really.
Post by: Artimus on June 25, 2006, 01:15:48 PM
Quote
I guess I did have this coming. After all, I stupidly left my work PC at -- get this -- the office. Crazy, huh? Normally, people take their dedicated work computers home with them or, at the very least, wherever they may go on vacation.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 25, 2006, 02:36:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
I love it when people pass off the "What if" game as fact.
That's always a brilliant argument.
Really.
I have to agree, which is why I tried to make it clear that it was basically my opinion on the what if. Frankly though I feel those, like myself, who play the "what if" we have more to back up our claims. Why you ask? Well look at the overhaul the dark zone got, shows me they are doing more than modifying the game for Wii.
Post by: Ceric on June 25, 2006, 02:41:49 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 26, 2006, 07:59:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution Well look at the overhaul the dark zone got, shows me they are doing more than modifying the game for Wii.
They clearly didn't "stop" development on the GC version. In fact, I think people are making a bigger deal out of this than is necessary.
We all know the Wii is upgraded GC hardware which means that developing a game for both the Wii and the GC is immensely easy. The only solid difference is the control scheme, and I don't think that took 1 year to develop.
I'd be stunned if TP, on either the GC or Wii, wasn't by far the most polished and biggest Zelda game we've ever seen and we largely have to thank its extra development year for that.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 26, 2006, 08:32:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution Well look at the overhaul the dark zone got, shows me they are doing more than modifying the game for Wii.
They clearly didn't "stop" development on the GC version. In fact, I think people are making a bigger deal out of this than is necessary.
We all know the Wii is upgraded GC hardware which means that developing a game for both the Wii and the GC is immensely easy. The only solid difference is the control scheme, and I don't think that took 1 year to develop.
I'd be stunned if TP, on either the GC or Wii, wasn't by far the most polished and biggest Zelda game we've ever seen and we largely have to thank its extra development year for that.
Hasn't it already been production longer than Ocarina of Time?
Post by: King of Twitch on June 26, 2006, 09:06:35 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 26, 2006, 09:36:46 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Rhoq on June 27, 2006, 04:46:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MJRx9000
At the expense of cutting the cube's life a year short
Let's be honest here. The GameCube's life needed to be cut short. It's reputation has been damaged beyond repair and it's future has been looking pretty dismal since the release of Resident Evil 4. Wii = a fresh start, something that Nintendo desperately needs more than Microsoft needed to rush the Xbox 360 into production last fall or Sony needs to release the PS3 this year.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 27, 2006, 06:20:19 AM
StarZeldaCraft 2!
IT'S NEVER COMING OUT. TAKE UP BIRD WATCHING AS A HOBBY AND GET ON WITH YER LIVES.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 27, 2006, 06:25:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Zelda Nukem Forever!
StarZeldaCraft 2!
IT'S NEVER COMING OUT. TAKE UP BIRD WATCHING AS A HOBBY AND GET ON WITH YER LIVES.
I wonder if StarZeldaCraft 2 will be as innovative as the original (Tinglelisks FTW!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 27, 2006, 08:06:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rhoq Let's be honest here. The GameCube's life needed to be cut short. It's reputation has been damaged beyond repair and it's future has been looking pretty dismal since the release of Resident Evil 4. Wii = a fresh start, something that Nintendo desperately needs more than Microsoft needed to rush the Xbox 360 into production last fall or Sony needs to release the PS3 this year.
Agreed in full.
TP wasn't about to "save" the GC, and even if it did, the next gen wars were already being started by MS so any success the GC experienced would be cut short soon after.
I remember back when MM launched and Nintendo bragged that it outsold PS2s that week. Yeah, fat lot of good THAT did for them, right?
Like I said, LoZ:TP will be the Wii's #1 selling title at launch. Count on it.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 27, 2006, 10:15:04 AM
When it was first rumored. Some people were upset, but others were hoping for the push towards the next system. It meant better graphics, new controls, a more accessable market push. (Launch games for new systems usually all sell very well.) It also meant that Nintendo would be launching with one its most mature game franchises at launch.
Now people are asking what would Zelda be like and feel like **If it was only Gamecube?** Its a silly question. And I am disheartened that people would be focusing this.
Lets just stop and look at the positive. If you want to buy TP for Gamecube you can. However, since it is on Wii...we have literally two potential killer apps for the system on launch day. Don't you think that is important.
(Zelda)
(Metroid)
And those games are more mature games for Nintendo.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 27, 2006, 10:28:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang I don't understand the questioning of TP being brought to Wii.
Welcome to the club. We meet every wednesday. Here's your hat.
The Wii's launch will probably be Nintendo's most important to date:
1. It's a brand new control scheme, one which is completely untested on the market.
2. The Wii will be graphically inferior to its competitors, again spurring doubt.
3. Unlike the DS, Nintendo doesn't rule the home console market with an iron fist. In fact, they've lost the last two gens.
and most IMPORTANTLY:
4. Many developers are waiting to see how the Wii sells before they develop for it. Many have "pledged" support, but they're likely just playing "wait and see" to see whether or not it succeeds.
With all this riding on it, the launch needs to kick ass and take names and while it would have been decent with MP3 and Red Steel at the helm, TP just seals the f*cking deal.
Seriously, Nintendo cannot afford for this launch to do anything but storm the charts and place the Wii at #1 for holiday sales. If they want to regain lost ground, they need to come back with a vengeance and TP will be a huge part of their momentum.
Post by: Mario on June 27, 2006, 10:47:44 AM
Oh cool, a hidden TP rant thread!
TP Wii = Sucks because it uses the Wii controls horribly awkwardly which pretty much renders it unplayable, because it's using a GC graphics engine (not saying it'll look bad), because it makes the Wii look like it's pointless if all it does is produce 1998 style 3D Zelda gameplay with it's 3D motion technology, because focusing on these things is a waste of time.
It'll be like Super Mario 64 DS. SM64 DS had some cool new stuff, but the controls made it not fun, and everyone just wanted to play the new levels with a N64 controller.
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
NO. You're completely WRONG on this. You're criticizing Nintendo for EXACTLY realizing their full potential. If it were up to you they'd have released TP GC exclusive this spring MINUS the extra 6 months of work they're doing to make it 120%!
We jump on you because with TP Nintendo is PROLONGING THE DEV TIME and putting MORE WORK into the game, yet you complain!!!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Nintendo has ruined the entire impact of the Zelda franchise with this and the incredibly ugly generic looking Phantom Hourglass, and that's FACT and everyone who disagrees is WRONG. The impact of Twilight Princess is further diminished by not only the two version clusterfork, but the countless delays. NOBODY CARES ABOUT IT ANYMORE! It wont sell more than 20,000 copies, i'd bet my house on it.
Post by: ShyGuy on June 27, 2006, 11:00:14 AM
Post by: vudu on June 27, 2006, 11:34:41 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on June 27, 2006, 11:48:24 AM
Skeptics have always pointed out that the Wii controller's lack of buttons in comparison to past controllers will compromise the controls of "traditional" games. Nintendo however has made a big deal about how this new controller is the future and everything's cool. Twilight Princess proves the skeptics right. Not only does it not control as well because of the new controller but by releasing a Cube version Nintendo is providing a direct comparison between the two control types. And it looks like the Cube version is going to be superior. That makes Nintendo's new controller look pretty lame and g!mmicky. It's not the future, it's just a different way of doing things. The "traditional" setup not only isn't broken but is in fact better for traditional games. That's pretty much the last thing Nintendo should want people to think (or perhaps I should say "know").
I think a better idea would be to merely use the Wii's backwards compatibility to use Zelda to help sell Wii's. Metroid Prime 3 would be a suitable "Wii exclusive" launch title for the Wii on its own. Zelda's still at launch but doesn't have broken controls or exposes the weaknesses in the Wii controller design.
It'll still sell but isn't going to do any wonders in selling the Wii controller as anything beyond a novelty.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 27, 2006, 12:06:22 PM
I am expecting Nintendo to polish the control to perfection by the time it is released. Why should we doubt that. Nintendo has always put an extreme emphasis on great control.
Hell, look at Red Steel and how Ubisoft is reworking the controls for the game after complaints. Perhaps they will figure out a means to do true 3D space PC style first person controls...and even figure a means to avoid crazy screen movement from subtle twitch movements from your hand.
Retro is also listening to us about the control of Metroid Prime: Corruption.
Why do we believe that the current control at E3 is it. That the flawed control is how the entire game will play. For all we know the game will use a completely different system when it comes out...or will be refined to perfection.
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2006, 02:09:34 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 27, 2006, 02:15:22 PM
But not perfect. I anticipate that the GC controls will be perfect, of course, so I would recommend that any real purist get the GC version if they can only get one copy.
But seriously, the concern over the TP controls at E3 is VASTLY exagerrated. From all I've read and watched, TP controls seem to be at respectable third-party AAA title levels of suitability (as in, not up to Nintendo's standards, but otherwise not too worrisome), which is good enough for the average gamer.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on June 27, 2006, 02:39:32 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 27, 2006, 05:24:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
I expect absolutley nothing to be wrong with TP's controls whatsover. And we'll all realise this around the same time the wiimote becomes as second nature to us as the analogue stick.
You could very well be right, I think we all forget that when Super Mario 64 first came out the analogue stick seemed awkward. Wii is an even bigger change for controls than the analogue stick, so I suspect that those who are use to current controls will have to get used to it.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 27, 2006, 05:40:08 PM
That was the true test of analog skill.
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2006, 07:58:31 PM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 28, 2006, 02:16:19 AM
Quote
Nintendo has ruined the entire impact of the Zelda franchise with this and the incredibly ugly generic looking Phantom Hourglass, and that's FACT and everyone who disagrees is WRONG. The impact of Twilight Princess is further diminished by not only the two version clusterfork, but the countless delays. NOBODY CARES ABOUT IT ANYMORE! It wont sell more than 20,000 copies, i'd bet my house on it.
lol, man, I hope you have a good place to stay as backup
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 28, 2006, 07:48:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric Nintendo must know that if they release a TP that doesn't control spot on that there going to be taken to cast and pretty much kiss everyone's planned vacations in the company good-bye. It would make what is already an uphill battle into a mountain trek.
Exactly.
And on the subject, does anyone have any more quotes from Matt, possibly about his reaction to realizing that 80% of the gaming world was already dancing on his proverbial grave before he announced that it was a joke?
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2006, 08:48:29 AM
Later on, Mario will be also released...and it is going to have to perfect as well.
Post by: Ceric on June 28, 2006, 09:02:40 AM
Post by: Requiem on June 29, 2006, 04:27:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Ceric: Your completely right. Nintendo is using Zelda and Metroid Prime (two of the more complex designed games) to prove the Wii control can handle any game experience. It must perform better than standard controllers. Yes...better. It it just performs as well as standard, then why was the change needed?
Later on, Mario will be also released...and it is going to have to perfect as well.
But what games could possibly be better to prove the Wiimote to old fans than Zelda, Metriod, and Mario?
If those are great, consider us and many others believers.
