Post by: The Omen on March 02, 2003, 09:23:28 AM
Ken Embery:" I think our opinion from the beginning has been that The Hobbit, as a novel, is a younger story, if you will, than the other Lord of the Rings stories. It's more of a children's story, in our view. And I don't mean to overemphasize that. But it's about Bilbo's beginning adventures in Middle Earth and the thought going into it was that The Hobbit would probably skew to a younger audience, which is also why I believe the decision was made to lead with GameCube. The Mario and Zelda audience has historically been a younger audience and so the art style was derived to take advantage of that target market. "
I know i'm over-reacting, but this is just so tiresome...mario and zelda appeals to the 'Everyone' audience, not children. Has he ever played either game? It doesn't sound like it.
Post by: Gamer Donkey on March 02, 2003, 09:45:10 AM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on March 02, 2003, 10:10:52 AM
yes the comment is a little uneducated but
pushing somebody out of the console market by developing a popular franchise for them is IMO some of the biggest
bull ive heard
its not like the people are gonna say, now that the hobbit (which could be a really strong franchise) is on the GCN i wont buy it
Post by: The Omen on March 02, 2003, 10:14:20 AM
Post by: Perfect Cell on March 02, 2003, 12:27:45 PM
Post by: WhoDey on March 02, 2003, 12:30:15 PM
What is wrong with that statement? It's true. Who are the people that want Mario and Zelda games? Kids or adults that discovered Mario/Zelda when they were kids themselves. Nobody is saying that adults can't enjoy them, heck I'm 30 and I buy all of them. But are they games that most adults care about? I'd have to say no, check out the sales figures compared to games like Madden or GTA. Yeah, sure, there are some adults that buck the trend but the majority are not pulled toward Nintendo's games. Publishers pick up on this.
Post by: CijaroDSK on March 02, 2003, 12:37:42 PM
Post by: JoeSmashBro on March 02, 2003, 01:37:27 PM
Zelda = plyaed by adults and children
Which one is the younger audience? Zelda.
Post by: AceRazer on March 02, 2003, 01:47:32 PM
Quote
I think our opinion from the beginning has been that The Hobbit, as a novel, is a younger story, if you will, than the other Lord of the Rings stories.
I dont really agree with this statement because, yes the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings were originally written for children back in the mid 20th century, but this day in age i believe that kids would have a hard time reading and comprehending what the stories are saying. Its a higher reading level than say the Harry potter books which are aimed for children. In my opinion the Hobbit doesnt seem to be too much different than the Lord of the Rings. Its the same monster slashing traveling across middle earth.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on March 02, 2003, 01:48:10 PM
The statement is 100% true, deal with it.
Heres a thought, just play the stupid games and forget about all the other crap.
Post by: Gamer Donkey on March 02, 2003, 02:00:11 PM
And I agree with Acerazer.
Post by: The Omen on March 02, 2003, 02:08:38 PM
Post by: The Caucasian Cubist on March 02, 2003, 03:04:23 PM
Post by: joeyjojo on March 02, 2003, 03:21:52 PM
im not trying to say anything about either game. okay, hmmmmmm CYAaaaaaaaa
Post by: mouse_clicker on March 02, 2003, 03:24:39 PM
I think what he means by "younger audience" is the "really friggin' big seller audience" since Mario and Zelda games always seem to sell millions more copies than almost any other series.
The guy just wants the Hobbit to sell well."yes the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings were originally written for children back in the mid 20th century,"
The Hobbit, to a degree, yes, but Lord of the Rings was most definetly *not* written for children. The Hobbit was supposed to be a nice little fairy tail for kids to read (maybe not real young kids, but Tolkien wasn't aiming at specifically adults), but in a letter written to someone asking to him to write a story about the Necromancer, Tolkien replied such a story would be much too dark for children. Well, LotR IS abotu that Necromancer, Sauron. It also contains a LOT of things that little kids would not understand- I first read the book in 4th grade and didn't understand an ounce of it. I do know, 5 years later, but LotR was not written for just kids. Besides, towards the end the book starts getting written in a very old English way- a little kid could spend hours wading through words upon words without knowing what most of them meant. LotR is a lot darker than the Hobbit (which has a sense of darkness all it's own).
Post by: nolimit19 on March 02, 2003, 04:07:18 PM
as is it on all consoles..................and as for gta being more for adults then zelda, or even older people playing gta is false. honestly now, gta is played by young and inexpirienced gamers for the most part. most people who play zelda have been doing so for quite some time now. i only know a few gamers with refined tastes that stil enjoy gta....i dont know if u heard the interview with desin dyack, but he talked about gta a little bit, and he had a lot of things to say that were true. if u havent checked it out yet, i suggest that u do so.
edit: and what the heck is Necromancer
Post by: The Omen on March 02, 2003, 04:37:42 PM
Perfectly put, nolimit
Post by: CrYpTiC on March 02, 2003, 05:13:04 PM
Post by: Slab on March 02, 2003, 06:44:53 PM
Post by: ThePerm on March 02, 2003, 06:49:47 PM
really, i beleive alot of this shit started with quest 64, the game wa sa decent game, but not the best. When looking at games like final fantasy which had more adult characters people sought that the designs could look a bit more grown up. Now everyone has a complex about colorful games. I swear this could be a good game...havnt tested it..but if it is damn good. Who gives a crap if it has violence in it or what not. Really, i like what silicon knights were saying. They dont push for target groups they just make games and they take whatever the esrb gives them. Amen. Thats how games used to be made, there was no ratigns board. I suppose Nintendo censored some games back in the day, but that is completely over with now. The only one censoring games now is Sony.
Post by: KrazyJ1098 on March 02, 2003, 06:55:38 PM
Post by: The Omen on March 02, 2003, 07:00:40 PM
Post by: KrazyJ1098 on March 02, 2003, 07:03:41 PM
Post by: willys85 on March 02, 2003, 07:10:57 PM
Post by: Slab on March 02, 2003, 07:26:23 PM
Post by: Kai on March 02, 2003, 07:44:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
GTA=played more by adults? Not around here. Unless 14-18 yr olds are what you consider adults.
Spot on. You would have to be wearing blinkers not to realise that GTA is marketed towards older children/teens, despite ratings this seems evident.
I read "The Hobbit" as a child. I wouldn't have been twelve when I read the book for the first time.
It is shorter and in some ways an easier read, however I went right on to read the other Lord Of the Rings books.
"Tolkien replied such a story would be much too dark for children."
Well, it was and is a rather dark read I suppose, but times change, and there are a lot of books released each year that could be considered far more disturbing, and they are released into the children's book market.
Lord of the Rings is not uncommonly read by children with decent literacy skills. I expect you are correct when you say they may not understand every facet of it, but it seems to me that is is often one of the first "adult" books that people tell me they read as a child.
Post by: SilverBack1138 on March 02, 2003, 08:15:27 PM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on March 03, 2003, 01:41:28 AM
Quote
I'm sick of hearing GTA is for older gamers only. I do not know any older serious gamer over the age of 20. Everyone I know, even my little brother's 7 year old friends play GTA. It is not an adult only game, so stop saying that.
Do you hand around with many over 20 gamers?
I do.
I am 32 and love GTA3 and vice city, my brother in law who is an optomitrist also loves the games, so please can we try and be a little more subjective. Just because there are no 30 years olds in your junior high who play it doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
Post by: The Omen on March 03, 2003, 09:08:35 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on March 03, 2003, 10:49:13 AM
You guys all say that Gamecube is for all ages yet when someone develops a kid's game for it you guys freak out. A system for everyone means that there are games for EVERYONE including games for kids. You can complain when a developer won't release a game on the Gamecube because of demographics but you can't when someone does release a game on Gamecube.
Post by: KrazyJ1098 on March 03, 2003, 11:17:02 AM
Post by: Sean on March 03, 2003, 11:45:44 AM
I cannot understand how a developer can have enough faith in the GameCube to make a game for it and yet people even on this board take a statement they make and say it is anti-Nintendo. It makes no sense. From what I've heard, the GameCube's audience IS young, so it IS smart to release "Rated-G" games on it!
I repeat: the company is releasing the game for the GameCube--how can they be against Nintendo at the same time?
And before anyone wigs out, I am not saying many older games don't love the GCN. I'm 24, after all, and far from alone. But it's very, very unfair not to mention ungrateful to take a simple statement on a console's demographic and turn it into all this.
I was just thinking of how much worse this would've been if The Hobbit were for PS2 only--you guys would've raised up torches and rakes and stormed the town square. IT'S COMING TO GAMECUBE!
Post by: Gamer Donkey on March 03, 2003, 11:52:27 AM
Now for another: I've noted on Extended Play they do not mention near as many Gamecube games as the other consoles, and unless the game is ground-breaking it gets a mediocre to bad rating. Also, on The Screen Savers (a show I watch and love) I've seen multiple Xbox plugs.
</fanboyism>
P.S. I like torches
Post by: Sean on March 03, 2003, 12:03:35 PM
I know as well as anyone paying attention that a great many people have some very unfair and skewed ideas about Nintendo, including many developers. I understand what everyone's getting at, but this developer's words have been twisted badly, as I see it.
We've got to cut down on the blind, unthinking, knee-jerk, reactionary responses to statements people make. We're acting like cornered children who are terrified of taking their medicine because they think it'll taste much worse than it really does.
Post by: Cap on March 03, 2003, 12:05:56 PM
Post by: Sean on March 03, 2003, 12:09:51 PM
And I repeat, the company is making the game for the GameCube as well, so obviously you must give them the benefit of the doubt.
Post by: The Omen on March 03, 2003, 12:14:08 PM
Quote
Rick, please clear this up really quick and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the majority demographic on GameCube a "young" one? I mean, isn't that why games like RE and ED didn't quite sell as well as people expected? Okay, that may not be true, but a developer saying that releasing a General Audience game on GameCube is a smart move shouldn't be an inflammatory statement
As far as i'm concerned, the demographic is only slightly different for all 3 systems. As far as RE, I think it sold pretty well. Capcom didn't expect huge numbers. ED, being a new franchise, didn't sell as much as it should have, but if there was a sequal it would sell quite well. Mr. Embery didn't say 'General Audience', which would be perfectly acceptable. He specifically said 'younger gamers', which does not infer a General Audience. No complaint on the actual game being released was ever brought up by me, so I don't know why that started.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 03, 2003, 03:59:19 PM
Not to say that GTA isn't fun. It's great fun to blow people up and slaughter innocents, but it can only entertain for so long. Things like Zelda last a long, long time.
But Hobbit for cube is cool. I probably won't get it, but it's nice to know Nintendo is getting some stuff. Same for FF:CC.
Post by: Sean on March 03, 2003, 04:12:55 PM
The Omen writes:
Quote
Mr. Embery didn't say 'General Audience', which would be perfectly acceptable. He specifically said 'younger gamers', which does not infer a General Audience.
Okay, so perhaps I'm the only one who think that GENERALLY, TYPICALLY, STEREOTYPICALLY, NORMALLY a G-Rated MOVIE (General Audience) is for a "younger audience." I hate to tell you this, but General Audience DEFINITELY implies a younger audience more than any other implication behind the phrase.
Now it's as obvious as it ever was that a lot of you are looking for a cause to champion--I respect that, but for a moment, lay down your quixotic windmill quest and enjoy the news. Believe it or not, some news is good news. The Hobbit coming to GameCube, while not literal gospel exactly, is good news. What the developer said was not a slight to the GameCube, but a statement that implied the demographic they were going after. If he's wrong, well, he's wrong, but this very clearly was not a slight against Nintendo.
Anyway, I don't think he's wrong to think that a game aimed at a General Audience will do better on GCN. Sega sure thinks so--and it sure worked for them.
Post by: nolimit19 on March 03, 2003, 04:25:17 PM
Post by: Sean on March 03, 2003, 04:28:59 PM
The REAL point of all of this is that the comments WAAAAY up there really aren't disturbing at all if you're the slightest bit reasonable. If you're really reasonable like me, you are confounded by what you see here.
Post by: The Omen on March 03, 2003, 05:03:21 PM
Post by: Gamer Donkey on March 03, 2003, 05:16:36 PM
.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 04, 2003, 07:20:52 AM
Post by: Sean on March 04, 2003, 10:23:47 AM
What I thought I was getting at, pertaining to this thread's supposed "disturbing comments" was that it's not unreasonable for a developer to develop a G-rated game on GCN with the expectation that there is a big audience for such a game. I think we can safely argue that PS2's and XBOXes skew to an older demographic.
Nowhere here do you see me saying that older gamers (like myself) wouldn't be struck by a bus just to play Zelda: The Wind Waker. Nowhere do you see me saying that I think older gamers only play GTA3.
Is anyone else getting what I'm saying here?
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on March 04, 2003, 10:29:31 AM
Because I believe the GCN demograph is really set at very young gamers like 12 and below and basically skipping the youth 17 upwards.
The youth is where the PS2 and Xbox are strong but they also have strong userbases going up the age group.
This is my estimate. But id love to see real numbers.
Post by: egman on March 05, 2003, 12:42:44 AM
In another forum someone recently put up the Jan NPD numbers and some people were looking at the Sega numbers on X-Box and comparing that with what has been done with the Cube. While there was no educated conclusion, it does look like a lot more Sega fans migrated to the Cube, which may further support the theory that Nintendo is being supporting either by a really young audience who is beginning to become gamers and an audience 18 + years who got started in the NES/Master System or SNES/GENISIS days. The consoles are probably selling more to the masses who started to take notice of gaming during the peak of the PS1. This my hypothesis, but it would be interesting for someone to actually study this.
