Post by: Requiem on June 13, 2006, 08:42:04 AM
Quote
With fans of the Tales RPG series eagerly awaiting news on Tales of the Tempest on the DS from Namco, the company's official website indicates a new addition to the bustling franchise will be announced on 20th June, 2006. Could this be the untitled Wii RPG project from Namco-Bandai?
Interestingly enough, Cubed3 brings up the point that Namco has an untitled Wii RPG project. The possibility of this not being on the Wii is slimmer than it being on the Wii.
I guess Wii'll just have to wait and see.
The qoute above = the entire article from the link - so haha to all of those that clicked! Requiem +1
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 13, 2006, 08:49:19 AM
Still, Tales support can never be a bad thing.
Post by: Ceric on June 13, 2006, 08:53:39 AM
Post by: Arbok on June 13, 2006, 08:57:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Symphonia, while fun, wasn't anything terribly special...
You are right, it was beyond special. It was amazing, addictive and loads of fun while wrapped in a lengthy RPG serving to keep you busy for at least a month.
If Namco does, trying not to get too excited about this, announce a new Tales game and it lives up to Symphonia, then that's it. The system doesn't need anymore, as it's already perfect to me with just what has been announced and everything else is just gravy to make it even more awesome.
Post by: JonLeung on June 13, 2006, 09:19:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Symphonia, while fun, wasn't anything terribly special, IMHO.
Still, Tales support can never be a bad thing.
I think the thing is, with a small number of RPGs on the GameCube, it really stands out.
I also love Baten Kaitos (:Eternal Wings And The Lost Ocean), and hope its sequel is good. And of course Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door. (Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles is more like a GBA game that requires a GameCube to play rather than a GameCube game that requires GBAs to play, IMO, not that that's bad.) And believe it or not, I also loved Mega Man X: Command Mission.
I don't consider Zelda games RPGs (uh, oh, that's a whole 'nother can of worms) but if you do, that only increases it by one (Wind Waker) or a few more (depending on if you count the Collector's Edition remakes, the Master Quest remake of Ocarina Of Time, the GBA-dependent Four Swords Adventures, and the who-wouldn't-rather-have-it-on-Wii Twilight Princess).
Either way, compared to the PS2, the GameCube isn't exactly an RPG heavyweight. So of course any Nintendo fan who still loves RPGs (like me) is going to give it a thumbs-up.
I'm actually surprised that there aren't more DS RPGs, especially the menu-driven turn-based ones (the touch-screen is great for menus). I recall a one-handed Super NES controller, as well as a very similar PSX controller, supposedly meant for RPGs. I don't actually think anyone needs to simultaneously do something like draw maps with the other hand while they play (or maybe they're busying themselves with something else while gaining experience levels) so if RPGs are meant to be one-handed the Wii controller might be a good fit. Or not. I'm sure that's not a MAJOR reason.
More likely Namco's just continuing their chumminess with Nintendo and trying out a Tales game. Why not? Maybe they can find a way for RPGs to be better handled with the motion-sensitive controller. If Nintendo has all the cool RPGs (and FPSes), that would cut into the PlayStation (and Xbox) markets for sure.
Post by: Requiem on June 13, 2006, 09:28:08 AM
JonLeung - You forget about Skies of Arcadia (my 2nd favorite RPG of this gen)
Post by: vudu on June 13, 2006, 09:34:06 AM
QuoteI remember seeing that in an old issue of Nintendo Power like 15 years ago and wanting one so bad (even though I had absolutely no use for one).
Originally posted by: JonLeung
I recall a one-handed Super NES controller, as well as a very similar PSX controller, supposedly meant for RPGs. I don't actually think anyone needs to simultaneously do something like draw maps with the other hand while they play (or maybe they're busying themselves with something else while gaining experience levels) so if RPGs are meant to be one-handed the Wii controller might be a good fit. Or not. I'm sure that's not a MAJOR reason.
In fact, you can still buy one if you like.
There's also a no hands required controller, if that sort of thing is your bag.
Post by: JonLeung on June 13, 2006, 09:56:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
JonLeung - You forget about Skies of Arcadia (my 2nd favorite RPG of this gen)
I was about to mention that after looking at my post - looks like you called me on it, though. My brother tried that on his Dreamcast. I think there may have been one or two other RPGs (Evolution Worlds or something?) that may have been ports over from the Dreamcast library.
Still, though, my point stands...the GameCube is not really an RPG machine.
I wish the Wii will be, though, and that the non-gaming market that the Wii is supposed to include doesn't scare away developers from making slightly more complex games like RPGs on it.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 13, 2006, 04:29:49 PM
Which is why people once in a while still post about it in the GameCube thread BESIDES talking about Zelda, as if they've just discovered the game.
If the only person you bothered to extensively use and practice with was Lloyd, then yeah it could get boring CUZ YOU ARE BORING. The combat variety was there, so go take advantage of it.
Super Smash Bros. Melee gets old quick if the only person you bothered to use was Link. (and Link is boring).
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
UALEUALEUALEUALEUALEUALEUALEUALEUALEUALEUALEUALE
Post by: Ceric on June 13, 2006, 04:36:32 PM
You know I think I'm going to give ToS a replay when I'm tired of God of War.
Post by: 1day on June 13, 2006, 05:27:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Symphonia, while fun, wasn't anything terribly special...
You are right, it was beyond special. It was amazing, addictive and loads of fun while wrapped in a lengthy RPG serving to keep you busy for at least a month.
If Namco does, trying not to get too excited about this, announce a new Tales game and it lives up to Symphonia, then that's it. The system doesn't need anymore, as it's already perfect to me with just what has been announced and everything else is just gravy to make it even more awesome.
They already did that with Tales of Abyss (PS2 only, unfortunately); I'm sure they can surpass that too as long as the right team is making the game.
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 13, 2006, 05:49:04 PM
(although I do play as lloyd most of the time >_>)
Post by: KDR_11k on June 13, 2006, 10:59:42 PM
I used mostly Lloyd because he made the most sense for direct control, sometimes Presea or Kratos (in some rare cases Sheena but I was too ineffective with her) but since the secondary characters were often taken from your party without warning Lloyd was my primary choice. The control scheme made effective play as a mage impossible and the more direct combat focus and combo ability your character had the better it worked.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on June 14, 2006, 01:24:45 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on June 14, 2006, 04:29:17 AM
Post by: Caterkiller on June 14, 2006, 05:59:52 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 14, 2006, 07:01:07 AM
-Bland, pointless puzzles
-Tacked on multiplayer, forcing additional players to twiddle their thumbs while the 1st player controlled everything outside of battle
-Yawn-worthy storyline with a weak final boss and ending, replete with awful character and story cliches with stiff and lifeless facial expressions
-Horrible battle camera which left other players behind and followed only the 1st player
The game took a friend and I about a week to finish via playing it a few hours every night. The combat carried the game. Everything else was par at best and disgraceful at worst.
It wasn't a bad game, it's just that it quite clearly had its strengths and its weaknesses.
I don't think people would be singing its praises to this extent were the game on a more RPG-heavy console so that they'd have more to compare it to.
Again, Tales support is always a good thing, but the game didn't sell many Gamecubes so don't count on it selling many Wiis.
Post by: Requiem on June 14, 2006, 07:31:18 AM
I simply can't agree with you there. What game would you prefer this generation compared to ToS? I think your being unreasonable, or you really don't like RPG's to begin with.
ToS is a breath of fresh air in room filled with FMV laced games.
Post by: Kairon on June 14, 2006, 07:39:10 AM
My bubbling bias against anime has spilled over to RPGs.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
P.S. It's ironic, I used to like Anime too... Hayao Miyazaki, Akira, Robotech...
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 14, 2006, 07:42:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Tales is still heavily borrowing from the anime genre. I will not, cannot, condone that.
My bubbling bias against anime has spilled over to RPGs.
Actually, I think this has something to do with it.
The characters and story were a bad anime cliche. Factor in the lousy puzzles and the only thing left is the combat (which fortunately rules).
Don't get me wrong, it was always great to buck-futt some arrogant boss, but the overarching story was bland and felt like a mild variation on every "epic medieval adventure" anime storyline out there (Scrapped Princess, to name one).
Post by: JonLeung on June 14, 2006, 08:49:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
ToS is a breath of fresh air in room filled with FMV laced games.
I actually like FMVs - I was hoping that in Tales Of Symphonia (and Baten Kaitos) that some shots in the opening movies were actually shots from FMV scenes within the game. Alas, they were not so.
Though, yes, I am leery when games seem to substitute FMVs (or any kind of in-game story scene) for gameplay. But there's nothing wrong with the occasional sequence if it's important to the story, looks cool, and doesn't disrupt the flow of the actual play.
Post by: please let me in, please on June 14, 2006, 09:11:53 AM
this is my favorite cube rpg, and my first love. Thank you Cubed3 and nintendo. thank you.
Post by: couchmonkey on June 14, 2006, 09:22:14 AM
I disagree with pretty much all the other criticisms though. Multiplayer complaints may be true, but seeing as most RPGs don't even offer multiplayer, I don't think it's a big deal. The battle system is very solid, and that's something that RPGs have been really bad at for a long time.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 14, 2006, 10:17:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
The characters and story were a bad anime cliche. Factor in the lousy puzzles and the only thing left is the combat (which fortunately rules).
Don't get me wrong, it was always great to buck-futt some arrogant boss, but the overarching story was bland and felt like a mild variation on every "epic medieval adventure" anime storyline out there (Scrapped Princess, to name one).
I'm glad I haven't seen enough anime or played enough RPGs to have a cynical, "Simpsons did it" attitude about them. I found the way ToS's story turned a typical NES era RPG storyline on its ear charming. If that was already done to death, then I'm glad I missed out on it so I could enjoy ToS for more than its battle system.
(Edit: Now that I've reread that, I feel like I should point out that I didn't intend to disparage anyone by that remark. Don't read too much into it. And I don't mean to imply that I think you're easily offended by this statement. Nor do I mean to imply that I think you're likely to misinterpret my words by that statement. Okay, time to put away the shovel before I dig any deeper.)
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 14, 2006, 10:49:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear I'm glad I haven't seen enough anime or played enough RPGs to have a cynical, "Simpsons did it" attitude about them. I found the way ToS's story turned a typical NES era RPG storyline on its ear charming. If that was already done to death, then I'm glad I missed out on it so I could enjoy ToS for more than its battle system.
To be fair, even if it wasn't cliche, it still wasn't very interesting.
I didn't feel connected to it or truly involved in it. It wasn't a bad story, just not one which roped me in and had me wanting to see what would happen next.
But the combat was excellent and the real reason to play the game, IMHO.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 14, 2006, 04:22:19 PM
Cuz hey when you replay, it's time to turn off the voice acting, disable most of the skits, zip thru ALL THE TEXT AND STORY, and GET ON TO THE BOSSES.
Kick ass. Kick it hard.
Post by: Arbok on June 14, 2006, 05:46:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Cuz hey when you replay, it's time to turn off the voice acting, disable most of the skits, zip thru ALL THE TEXT AND STORY, and GET ON TO THE BOSSES.
Preach it brother!
Who cares about the storyline? It wasn't bad, it wasn't great, it was servicable, but the gameplay is so damn good that I couldn't help but start all over again as soon as I finished, and that is saying something as I haven't done that with another RPG beyond Super Mario RPG and Diablo II.
Post by: Kairon on June 14, 2006, 05:49:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Who cares about the storyline?
We ARE still talking about an RPG...right?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: JonLeung on June 14, 2006, 05:49:56 PM
'Nough said.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 14, 2006, 05:55:24 PM
Sheena would also look good with glasses, a blouse, high heels, and a miniskirt.
Post by: Kairon on June 14, 2006, 05:59:48 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Arbok on June 14, 2006, 06:00:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
We ARE still talking about an RPG...right?
What was your reaction to Super Mario RPG's story then? Or the one in Pokémon?
Post by: JonLeung on June 14, 2006, 06:01:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
oh gawd, hot for teacher
Sheena would also look good with glasses, a blouse, high heels, and a miniskirt.
Pretty good wavelength we're both on. Glasses = intellectualism, and high heels and miniskirts are just plain smoking.
Oh, wait, you're the one who disagrees with me that Ada > Daisy.
Post by: Kairon on June 14, 2006, 06:11:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
We ARE still talking about an RPG...right?
What was your reaction to Super Mario RPG's story then? Or the one in Pokémon?
Super Mario RPG was eh to me, I mean, it had a clever role reversal for Bowser, but Geno, in my opinion, threatened to overshadow Mario as a Hero (which to me was uncool), and the game didn't pretend to be more than it was (Unlike TOS, which in my oinion gives lip service to addressing racism and the-world-is-worth-saving stuff). Nevertheless, my brother was the Super Mario RPG fan, not me. I'm the Paper Mario Fan.
Pokemon as an RPG has slightly different elements. If it was a straightforward party-battle system then I'd agree that it sucked. But with the collectathon aspect to it, it actually incentivized a full exploration of its world which shifted the game's immersion focus away from a single narrative thread and instead to location based substories. And again, this game didn't flaunt itself as something more than it was, it didn't have characters going emo to each other and just miraculously working through their issues.
I have more respect for crappy/mediocre RPGs that don't pretend to be more than they are (Quest 64) than RPGs that insult my intelligence by preaching about peace and energy and all that wonderful, wonderful stuff. I eman, come on, I'm based in San Francisco, I listen to NPR, I used to live and breath socio-political issues! I want RPGs to challenge me, not make me regress to my intellectual infancy!
...I'm crazy aren't I?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 14, 2006, 06:11:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeungQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
oh gawd, hot for teacher
Sheena would also look good with glasses, a blouse, high heels, and a miniskirt.
Pretty good wavelength we're both on. Glasses = intellectualism, and high heels and miniskirts are just plain smoking.
Oh, wait, you're the one who disagrees with me that Ada > Daisy.
Different characters for different needs.
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
For god's sake just buy a Tecmo game already! &P
Easier said than done given their AWEFUL CHARACTERS HAVE NO PERSONALITY TO THEM. And the games don't even offer the level of customization I demand. Just a bunch of rendered lifeless skin-color-swapped hair-swapped MANNEQUINS (MANIKINS).
Post by: Arbok on June 14, 2006, 06:20:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I'm based in San Francisco, I listen to NPR, I used to live and breath socio-political issues!
*gasp* I had no idea we lived in the same area...
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I want RPGs to challenge me, not make me regress to my intellectual infancy!
...I'm crazy aren't I?
If by challenge you mean in terms of how tough that boss is, sure. If you mean challenge as in to produce a thought provoking and eye awakening peice of storytelling, then I would probably point you in the direction of films where they don't need to worry that the heros aren't fighting things every five minutes or that there will be a boss at the end of this little "arc" in the story.
Everyone looks for different things in games though. For me, storys take a huge backseat to how fun the game is, which is way Symphonia, Diablo 2 and Pokémon are some of my favorite entries in the genre.
Post by: Kairon on June 14, 2006, 06:29:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
For god's sake just buy a Tecmo game already! &P
Easier said than done given their AWEFUL CHARACTERS HAVE NO PERSONALITY TO THEM. And the games don't even offer the level of customization I demand. Just a bunch of rendered lifeless skin-color-swapped hair-swapped MANNEQUINS (MANIKINS).
Oh, ok...ummm...
How about Rule of Rose then?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on June 14, 2006, 06:33:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
*gasp* I had no idea we lived in the same area...
Lol. Well, actually, I'm dorming in Fremont now, Devry has a Games and Simulation Bachelors Program!
Oh, and just to be clear, my views on ToS are mine and mine alone (obviously). One of my two best friends actually enjoyed the game quite a bit (he would, he actually seems to LIKE anime, yech) and he was the one always playing with me and pestering me to finish the game already. So, *sigh* diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. *shrug*
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: KDR_11k on June 14, 2006, 10:33:29 PM
Post by: please let me in, please on June 15, 2006, 06:56:27 AM
oh well. On another note, i do agree with kairon. I do like intelligent games and movies above the average straghtforward fighting crap.
Post by: Kairon on June 15, 2006, 07:00:24 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: JonLeung on June 15, 2006, 07:20:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
If Nintendo just released Mother stateside we could all forget our differeneces and get together to dance a happy happy song of peace and unification!
I thought the Happy Happy Village was home to that blue-worshipping cult in EarthBound? You're not blue, are you?
Post by: Kairon on June 15, 2006, 07:39:02 AM
You, too, shall be blue!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 15, 2006, 07:57:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
ToS is clicheed. So what. So is every single freaking JRailPG out there. If you don't want a clicheed storyline you should stay away from these games.
Kai's point is that, for a game with full voice acting that makes you spend exorbitant amounts of time listening to dialogue, the story is surprisingly awful.
Ever met a fan of FFX? I've talked to at least four people who CRIED at the end of the game: the characters and their struggles immersed them so well that they actually CARED about them and what happened to them. That's unheard of for me. I've never played a FF game (other than CC) but stuff like that makes me curious.
ToS didn't even scratch that level of emotion, and while I don't expect every RPG to do that, they poured far too much effort into a storyline which was, to say the least, lacking.
But yeah, the real bread and butter of the game was the combat and I also recall the exploration with fondness.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 15, 2006, 08:17:13 AM
For a game with elaborate fighting scenes that makes you spend exorbitant amounts of time fighting random monsters, the gameplay is surprisingly awful.
Post by: Kairon on June 15, 2006, 08:20:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Kai's point is that, for a game with full voice acting that makes you spend exorbitant amounts of time listening to dialogue, the story is surprisingly awful.
That's actually your point, but I'll take credit for it! &P
I'm an equal opportunity hater. FF, ToS, SoA... I hate 'em all! I've yet to meet an anime-infused RPG that I didn't hate.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 15, 2006, 09:30:26 AM
QuoteChrono Trigger?
Originally posted by: Kairon
I'm an equal opportunity hater. FF, ToS, SoA... I hate 'em all! I've yet to meet an anime-infused RPG that I didn't hate.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 15, 2006, 09:41:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k For a game with elaborate fighting scenes that makes you spend exorbitant amounts of time fighting random monsters, the gameplay is surprisingly awful.
So what didn't you like about FFX's gameplay? What did you think about the real-time combat difference from previous FF games? How about the leveling system? What about the grid-based attack acquisition system did you like/dislike? Did you find it too easy/hard?
Post by: Kairon on June 15, 2006, 10:37:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Athrun ZalaQuoteChrono Trigger?
Originally posted by: Kairon
I'm an equal opportunity hater. FF, ToS, SoA... I hate 'em all! I've yet to meet an anime-infused RPG that I didn't hate.
I'm not gonna say what you're not gonna like.
But I will say this: I dislike Akira Toriyama's art style with a passion.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 15, 2006, 11:07:58 AM
Quotelol, I don't like his art style either....(Nobuhiro Watsuki and Hirokazu Hisayuki FTW!)
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: Athrun ZalaQuoteChrono Trigger?
Originally posted by: Kairon
I'm an equal opportunity hater. FF, ToS, SoA... I hate 'em all! I've yet to meet an anime-infused RPG that I didn't hate.
I'm not gonna say what you're not gonna like.
But I will say this: I dislike Akira Toriyama's art style with a passion.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
but I'm guessing you didn't like CT, right?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 15, 2006, 11:22:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Ever met a fan of FFX? I've talked to at least four people who CRIED at the end of the game: the characters and their struggles immersed them so well that they actually CARED about them and what happened to them. That's unheard of for me. I've never played a FF game (other than CC) but stuff like that makes me curious.
I haven't played FFX, but I have cried (as in "teared up," not as in "openly wept") in reaction to a video game story before. Movies, too. I'd probably do the same for books if it weren't for the fact that they don't deliver the emotional payload quite as quickly and suddenly because you read at your own pace. Most of my friends either never have or won't admit it. I think it depends on a person's overall likelihood to do so and the depth of the connection the player makes to the character(s). I say "makes" there because I think a large portion of a person's involvement in a story has to be intentional. Sometimes a story just reaches out and grabs me, but more often than not I only really get drawn in after I've put enough thought into it, which obviously only happens if I'm at least a little interested to begin with.
Another thing that impacts the cry-factor is the music. A string section swell punctuating a scene at just the right moment can really do me in.
As far as ToS goes, I don't recall crying at any point, but I did connect with a few of the characters. I actually like the voice acting. It features some of my favorite voice actors. The dialogue was hindered by English's clunky polysyllabic words for its major concepts, I think. And as for those concepts, I'm just happy nobody ever asked "What does it mean to exist?" or "Why must I fight?"
Post by: JonLeung on June 15, 2006, 01:22:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
I've never played a FF game (other than CC) but stuff like that makes me curious.
Never? o_0
The series has gotten overrated as of late, but you can play the first six games on a Nintendo console or the handheld remakes, VII and XIII and XI are on the PC. IX is emulatable on a PC (it's not illegal if you buy the actual FF IX game discs, right?), so really, X is the only "main" FF you need a PS2 for. Oh, and XII after that comes out, but still...not very many.
I've played the first nine games, and let me tell you - it's like gaming history 101, games like FF, FF IV, FF VI, and FF IX should be highly recommended. I'd say VII too but I'm hesitant to as that's the most overrated game in all of history. It's not a bad game, but it's like everyone and their dog has played it already. Oh, except you.
I like FF, but I don't like FF fanboys who only hopped on from VII or later.
Post by: IceCold on June 15, 2006, 06:54:56 PM
QuoteOh, no, no. I'm not in the group yet. No, I'm afraid I just blue myself..
You're not blue, are you?
Cookies awarded!
Post by: Galford on June 15, 2006, 06:58:36 PM
Also ToS was the last Tales game to come from Namco before they created a studio just for making Tales games. ToS is often looked through rosy-colored glassed because it was a good RPG on a system the had very few RPGs.
This is coming from someone who bought the game a few days after launch.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on June 15, 2006, 09:06:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Ever met a fan of FFX? I've talked to at least four people who CRIED at the end of the game: the characters and their struggles immersed them so well that they actually CARED about them and what happened to them. That's unheard of for me. I've never played a FF game (other than CC) but stuff like that makes me curious.
Wow, that's pretty sad considering all the characters in FFX do all game is complain and whinge. Except for the ten minute cut scene of Yuna trying to laugh, and sounding like a cow. Yes. Ten minutes. Good work Square, you sure know how to make an interesting game. Maybe they cried with tears of joy because the nightmare was finally over and they could throw the game in the bin.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 15, 2006, 09:08:18 PM
And of course there's some old-school charm, some neat treasures, and some great music which make up the choco-caramel fudge on an already hefty ice-cream-chocolate-brownie cake. Not a pretty sugar sculpture (lol which some chefs drop), but something we'd definitely bite into today, tomorrow, and many days after.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on June 15, 2006, 09:17:45 PM
Post by: wandering on June 15, 2006, 09:34:50 PM
Quote
Oh, no, no. I'm not in the group yet. No, I'm afraid I just blue myself..
Trying to get into show buisness, eh IceCold? I hope you're not a Never Nude, that could make things difficult...
Post by: The Omen on June 15, 2006, 10:14:06 PM
Quote
Oh, no, no. I'm not in the group yet. No, I'm afraid I just blue myself..
There's got to be a better way to say that.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on June 15, 2006, 10:47:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Infernal MonkeyQuote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Ever met a fan of FFX? I've talked to at least four people who CRIED at the end of the game: the characters and their struggles immersed them so well that they actually CARED about them and what happened to them. That's unheard of for me. I've never played a FF game (other than CC) but stuff like that makes me curious.
Wow, that's pretty sad considering all the characters in FFX do all game is complain and whinge. Except for the ten minute cut scene of Yuna trying to laugh, and sounding like a cow. Yes. Ten minutes. Good work Square, you sure know how to make an interesting game. Maybe they cried with tears of joy because the nightmare was finally over and they could throw the game in the bin.
First of all, did you even play the game?
SPOILERS COMING UP
First of all, the only two characters that I remember complained the most were Tidus and Rikku. The one reason Tidus complained a lot was that he was a somewhat spoiled, rash teen jock who was having somewhat of a good life till SIN and Auron ripped him out of his world and into the dark world of Spira. Tidus is basically the cocky out of towner that ends up in a town or world either by accident or by force and learns to love and appreciate the world and it's people. Rikku was basically the comic relief of the game.
I admit it's been a while till I played the game, but I don't remember anyone else being whiny and bitchy throughout the whole game. Do you need a refresher course? OK...
Yuna was a summoner who loved Spira so much that she was willing to sacrifice her own life in order to bring peace temporarily to her world. She never complained about it. In fact, she was a soldier, willing to ignore her own dreams and desires in order make sure everyone else has a happy, long life. The only time she was burdened by her duties was when she performed her first sending and cried at the end. After that, she learned to get over it and continue her duties. And she never even complained about it...
Then there's Auron. Auron was a warrior that even after death he couldn't stop fighting. He kept the promise he made to his friends (Braska and Jecht) and watched over both Tidus and Yuna. He bravely battled against the corruption of Spira's religion, even when he was supposed to be dead. Not to mention he was a badass to boot. And he never even complained. In fact, I am surprised that Square didn't write a part in which he smacked Tidus for complaining a lot.
Kimarhi was belittled by his own people. They ridiculed him for having a broken horn and never even truly accepted him as one of their own. And yet, he bravely protected Yuna and never even said a word about his issues. And he never even complained...
Wakka was a bit of a comic relief character and he was prone to complaining in some parts, but even then his character was grounded in reality and there were many parts in which his character shined (sp?).
Lulu, despite her dark and gothic looking demeanor was perhaps the most sound of all the characters. She emoted the least of all the characters, yet her presence was a very important one throughout the entire story.
END SPOILERS
Seriously, did you even PLAY FFX, or are you trying to pass off some random thought as actual fact for the sake of arguing?
I ask you this because a player that HAS played the game will NEVER say that ALL of the characters in FFX "do all game is complain and whinge". That player may disagree with the emotional power of the story and argue the overall quality of the game, but will never say that ALL of the characters complain because that player actually sat down with the game and played through it and actually paid attention to what was going on in the story.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on June 15, 2006, 11:11:31 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on June 16, 2006, 02:16:06 AM
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Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k For a game with elaborate fighting scenes that makes you spend exorbitant amounts of time fighting random monsters, the gameplay is surprisingly awful.
So what didn't you like about FFX's gameplay? What did you think about the real-time combat difference from previous FF games? How about the leveling system? What about the grid-based attack acquisition system did you like/dislike? Did you find it too easy/hard?
Nice details* but it's pointless if the game itself is way too repetitive. Any enemy you encountered had a set strategy to use and while that may have been nice for the first two or three encounters with that enemy it's mind numbing if you have to fight four enemies fifty times in a row. Set strategies work if they still require skill to execute but in FFX? Nada.
The lack of ATB was nice since ATB is a completely idiotic concept, the levelling grid lacked any sort of overview like "this is a mage path", on any branch you'd have to look through it, count the upgrades and determine what that path would do. I'm not willing to read through 40 nodes and their statistics and calculate what path makes sense. The mechanism itself was tedious since it had to be done manually so I usually waited with redeeming the upgrade points until I've gained 3-4 levelups.
I won't even talk about that sidegame. What a stupid idea.
*= Actually, no. Offensive magic was almost completely pointless except for exploiting the occassional weakness since usually a physical attack did more damage.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 16, 2006, 08:20:08 AM
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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Nice details* but it's pointless if the game itself is way too repetitive. Any enemy you encountered had a set strategy to use and while that may have been nice for the first two or three encounters with that enemy it's mind numbing if you have to fight four enemies fifty times in a row. Set strategies work if they still require skill to execute but in FFX? Nada.
Funny, you just described ToS's overworld and dungeon exploration perfectly, just with less strategy involved since every enemy typically had the exact same strategy: beat the f*ck out of it. Granted, it was always fun beating the f*ck out of it (or them, since you could typically get many at once), but that doesn't excuse the fact that the combat was entirely based upon getting in its face and trying to pull off as many combo moves as possible and have the other characters heal during the difficult battles (some of the bosses).
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The lack of ATB was nice since ATB is a completely idiotic concept, the levelling grid lacked any sort of overview like "this is a mage path", on any branch you'd have to look through it, count the upgrades and determine what that path would do. I'm not willing to read through 40 nodes and their statistics and calculate what path makes sense. The mechanism itself was tedious since it had to be done manually so I usually waited with redeeming the upgrade points until I've gained 3-4 levelups.
Again, how was ToS better? Discovering different moves was an interesting way of doing things, but it overall was pretty straight forward when it came to leveling.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 16, 2006, 08:30:49 PM
Again, how was ToS better? Discovering different moves was an interesting way of doing things, but it overall was pretty straight forward when it came to leveling.
It didn't require me to look through a long list of possible upgrades to make sure I didn't choose a path that would leave me with a useless character (like I've done with that beastman guy in FFX). Level ups happened automatically, you didn't have to move a token and select all adjacent fields for each character and levelup.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 19, 2006, 06:37:26 AM
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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
The difference is that in ToS you do the fighting and you need to develop strategies for dealing the most damage possible and avoiding attacks.
Ok, I stopped reading right there.
Are we even playing the same game? Combat in ToS consisted of:
1. Get in the enemy's face.
2. Try to chain as many combos together as possible.
3. Set your bots to heal and use items when needed.
4. Repeat.
The only times I ever even bothered using magic against enemies is when they could only be damaged by it. My friend and I went through the entire game like that and I think we were defeated maybe twice.
Why bother using different characters when Lloyd and Regal absolutely annihilate everything in their path with combos?
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It didn't require me to look through a long list of possible upgrades to make sure I didn't choose a path that would leave me with a useless character (like I've done with that beastman guy in FFX). Level ups happened automatically, you didn't have to move a token and select all adjacent fields for each character and levelup.
You mean they made the player's input factor into the outcome of the characters? God FORBID!
Some of us actually like dictating how our characters level, progress and change, not the generic "Level Up" in ToS which gave your character some more stats and an occasional new move would pop up (90% of which were useless, though).
Post by: 18 Days on June 19, 2006, 07:02:54 AM
QuoteSo you never learned Hammer Rain and teamed it up with Sword Rain: Alpha in a Unison Attack then? Your loss.
Why bother using different characters when Lloyd and Regal absolutely annihilate everything in their path with combos?
You should probably reply when you understand how much misinformation you've been saying.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 19, 2006, 07:34:24 AM
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Originally posted by: 18 Days So you never learned Hammer Rain and teamed it up with Sword Rain: Alpha in a Unison Attack then? Your loss.
I never used the unison attacks at all, actually. They weren't worth the trouble.
My friend and I just generally tried to rack up the largest combo possible and we did a decent job of it.
This is without using hourglasses, unity attacks, etc. Just straight up combo tagging:
...And was fun doing it.
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You should probably reply when you understand how much misinformation you've been saying.
You should probably only drop a line like that after citing my actual use of misinformation, otherwise you just look like a fan of ToS who has no basis for argument and must instead fall back on snide jabs like this one.
Post by: 18 Days on June 19, 2006, 07:48:49 AM
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Some of us actually like dictating how our characters level, progress and change, not the generic "Level Up" in ToS which gave your character some more stats and an occasional new move would pop up (90% of which were useless, though).
Did you even know what the Technical/Strike alignment did? How about EX Gems?
Also while 82 hits is impressive, still falls short of the 100 required for the Combo Master title.
And if anything, the very different nature of our combat styles speaks for the depth of the combat in Tales itself.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 19, 2006, 08:00:43 AM
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Originally posted by: 18 Days
Did you even know what the Technical/Strike alignment did? How about EX Gems?
That picture is proof that I do: Zelos is receiving a bonus from the Ex gems he had equipped, is he not?
As for tech strikes, it's been too long to remember. What did they do?
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Also while 82 hits is impressive, still falls short of the 100 required for the Combo Master title.
It's easily doable with hourglasses and uni-attacks. Have you seen the video with the 1000+ combo?
The point is that this picture is just two friends timing their combos to ensure that one begins right as another ends, no items, no special attacks, just timing and teamwork.
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And if anything, the very different nature of our combat styles speaks for the depth of the combat in Tales itself.
Yeah, I can agree with that. I never said the combat wasn't deep, only that delving into that depth was largely unnecessary. The combat is, without question, the place where the game shines the absolute most.
For curiosity's sake, though, what was your finish time on the game?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 19, 2006, 08:40:23 AM
How about 203-hit combo SEX by a solo player who enjoyed learning how to make full use of the ENTIRE party? (me)
fahk the hourglasses
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 19, 2006, 08:59:54 AM
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Originally posted by: Professional 666
=D
How about 203-hit combo SEX by a solo player who enjoyed learning how to make full use of the ENTIRE party? (me)
fahk the hourglasses
ORLY?
And my combo didn't involve unity attacks or items.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 19, 2006, 09:11:49 AM
Still meets my definition of strategy more than "select the character the game is telling you to select, choose attack". In order to maximize damage you'd have to find out how to chain the combos best and what gives the most damage per time or MP. Even if theeffort is small, it's more than what is needed for FFX.
I never used the unison attacks at all, actually. They weren't worth the trouble.
They did a lot of free damage. If you used the combination attacks some attacks hit double or thrice, you can easily rack up huge amounts of damage without sacrificing any MP in the process. Plus it pauses the game while you're doing the damage.
The only times I ever even bothered using magic against enemies is when they could only be damaged by it. My friend and I went through the entire game like that and I think we were defeated maybe twice.
Why bother using different characters when Lloyd and Regal absolutely annihilate everything in their path with combos?
Human players are vastly more effective than AI controlled ones so the game becomes a lot easier when you've got two or more people. Magic makes for nice fire support. A difference to FFX is that in ToS you can keep out of the enemy's range when using magic.
Yeah, I can agree with that. I never said the combat wasn't deep, only that delving into that depth was largely unnecessary. The combat is, without question, the place where the game shines the absolute most.
Same for Pokemon when playing against the AI, you never needed to know about all that tournament quality stuff when you could just use a high level Pokemon and use brute force even against elemental advantages. Few RPGs are hard enough to require the full pallette of the combat system to be employed.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 19, 2006, 10:28:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
=D
How about 203-hit combo SEX by a solo player who enjoyed learning how to make full use of the ENTIRE party? (me)
fahk the hourglasses
ORLY?
And my combo didn't involve unity attacks or items.
Save your silly cheat values for the gamefaqs kids. This is PGC. -- that poor Ice Warrior deserves a fair, lvl. 97 fight.
And I've never used an hourglass, nor bothered to get any (cuz running around as Zelos to pick up free stuff from women is a waste of my time).
My combo video (which is my attempt to replicate a video of a Japanese player getting 210 hits in the same scenario which I saw before ToS hit stateside) involves Lloyd leading the barrage, with Colette and Presea assigned to C-stick attacks, attempting to chain with Genis' spellcasting. I top off at around 100 hits when the dragon "gives up" and sits down at the point where the game forces the combo counter to stop counting (which i think is stupid), then I initiate the Unison Attack to tack-on the other hundred hits.
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 20, 2006, 12:14:25 AM
So all it ended up being was that they wanted to milk the series with even more ports and remakes.
Here's the link
Post by: Mario on June 20, 2006, 05:44:50 AM
