Post by: Mario on May 24, 2006, 04:36:20 AM
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In addition Miyamoto would like to make something not yet seen in a Mario game possible on Wii. This could be a reference to a new Mario game for Wii other than Super Mario Galaxy.
I hope to crap that Mario Galaxy isn't the game he's talking about, because I don't see anything unbelievably new in it at all. The fact that he says he "would like" to do that leads me to believe this is just plans for the next Mario game, likely due out in 2012. It's a bit late for him to start "wanting" to do something new for the Wii isn't it? What have Nintendo been doing for the last 2 years when they were supposedly developing Wii software? (confirmed by Iwata at E3 2004) surely that was enough time to think of something that was new, especially with all the radical possibilites.
Yes, there could be tons of brand new stuff in Super Mario Galaxy, but already at it's core it's the same Mario game that was on N64 and GC, and I can't think of anything new that they are hiding that would be more significant than FLUDD, since the basic game idea has already been unveiled.
Despite the fact that Super Mario Galaxy will be a great fun game, I think it's a disaster. It's nothing new. It's just Super Mario 64-2 / Sunshine 2. Definately not a gaming revolution I was expecting in the new Mario, especially considering the system is supposed to deliver just that. Also, it's keeping my favourite development team busy, Tokyo EAD, makers of the INCREDIBLY innovative and brilliant Donkey Kong Jungle Beat are now stuck making a generic Mario sequel. Super Mario Moonshine, here we come.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on May 24, 2006, 04:42:56 AM
Post by: mantidor on May 24, 2006, 04:58:28 AM
I think that as random as the Mario franchise is, it has its limits, and couldnt be the proper revolution title that was needed. This time it looks like wiisports is the real flagship title of the console.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 24, 2006, 05:02:29 AM
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Originally posted by: Mario
I hope to crap that Mario Galaxy isn't the game he's talking about, because I don't see anything unbelievably new in it at all. The fact that he says he "would like" to do that leads me to believe this is just plans for the next Mario game, likely due out in 2012. It's a bit late for him to start "wanting" to do something new for the Wii isn't it? What have Nintendo been doing for the last 2 years when they were supposedly developing Wii software? (confirmed by Iwata at E3 2004) surely that was enough time to think of something that was new, especially with all the radical possibilites.
Is this sarcasm? It's not as if every game that Nintendo will ever release for the Wii is already in production. I'm sure someone as creative as Miyamoto has hundreds of things he would like to do when he can find the time.
Post by: Mario on May 24, 2006, 05:09:24 AM
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Originally posted by: mantidor
Everyone just assumed Galaxy was Mario 128, but did anyone directly ask Nintendo for confirmation? I cant recall any interview with Miyamoto saying "yes, this is what Mario 128 end up being".
I think that as random as the Mario franchise is, it has its limits, and couldnt be the proper revolution title that was needed. This time it looks like wiisports is the real flagship title of the console.
True, that's what I was thinking before, that they didn't want their flagship game to be a game with Mario in it, to increase the appeal to people who associate Mario with traditional gameplay and wouldn't look at a game with him in it.
This looks like a strategic placement too, to not scare gamers away. Lure people in with their favourite Super Mario gameplay, then blow their mind later once they already own the system and can't be potentially scared off by it. I told a friend about the system and he was like "WTF? This is weird man", then I showed him Super Mario Galaxy and he's like "oh neat, it's just like Mario 64".
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
I hope to crap that Mario Galaxy isn't the game he's talking about, because I don't see anything unbelievably new in it at all. The fact that he says he "would like" to do that leads me to believe this is just plans for the next Mario game, likely due out in 2012. It's a bit late for him to start "wanting" to do something new for the Wii isn't it? What have Nintendo been doing for the last 2 years when they were supposedly developing Wii software? (confirmed by Iwata at E3 2004) surely that was enough time to think of something that was new, especially with all the radical possibilites.
Is this sarcasm? It's not as if every game that Nintendo will ever release for the Wii is already in production. I'm sure someone as creative as Miyamoto has hundreds of things he would like to do when he can find the time.
It just seems to me like Super Mario Galaxy is a game that could have been done on GameCube and I could have been playing it a year ago.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 24, 2006, 05:21:22 AM
Personally, it sounds like he's hinting at new things to come in Galaxy, which is completely believable considering we've HARDLY seen anything that will be in the final game...
Post by: Wackman on May 24, 2006, 05:33:18 AM
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It just seems to me like Super Mario Galaxy is a game that could have been done on GameCube and I could have been playing it a year ago.
That's not exactly true. Mario galaxy has lighting-effects, shades, mapping, etc. that weren't possible with the Cube. And what we have seen on E3 was a very small part (demo) from a game that will probably will be huge and very divers. It looks a lot better than Sunshine in my opinion and i think that we've seen just a tiny bit of gameplay and there will be a lot more use of the wiimote..
Post by: KDR_11k on May 24, 2006, 05:41:30 AM
Post by: UncleBob on May 24, 2006, 05:46:59 AM
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Originally posted by: Mario
It just seems to me like Super Mario Galaxy is a game that could have been done on GameCube and I could have been playing it a year ago.
New Super Mario Bros could have pretty much been done on the Game Boy Advance (Heck, the Game Boy Color, if you replaced the 3D characters with sprites) and we could have been playing that a decade ago.
Post by: mantidor on May 24, 2006, 05:50:49 AM
Post by: Mario on May 24, 2006, 05:58:19 AM
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Originally posted by: UncleBobQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
It just seems to me like Super Mario Galaxy is a game that could have been done on GameCube and I could have been playing it a year ago.
New Super Mario Bros could have pretty much been done on the Game Boy Advance (Heck, the Game Boy Color, if you replaced the 3D characters with sprites) and we could have been playing that a decade ago.
Yeah that always seemed like a fanservice game to me too, just to silence all the people who've been yelling for a new 2D Mario, looks like it's done a good job of it. Plus, DS isn't Wii.
Post by: Wackman on May 24, 2006, 05:58:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBobQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
It just seems to me like Super Mario Galaxy is a game that could have been done on GameCube and I could have been playing it a year ago.
New Super Mario Bros could have pretty much been done on the Game Boy Advance (Heck, the Game Boy Color, if you replaced the 3D characters with sprites) and we could have been playing that a decade ago.
If you replace people and cars with sticks, you can play GTA on your cellphone. If you replace 3D characters with almost every FPS i know, you could play them all on the N64.
New gameplay elements and better graphics is what sells new consoles.. And i'm guessing, with all these years of devellopment, there will be some unique wii gamplay in this game.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 24, 2006, 06:03:32 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 24, 2006, 10:05:50 AM
I love the look of Super Mario Galaxy. The planets, the altered gravity, the pointer aspect, the beautiful art, the sound and music, and everything else. And I've only seen about ten minutes of gameplay, if that.
This is my most anticipated game. It adds tons of new stuff to the basic Mario concept, far more than Super Mario Sunshine, and it's being done very gracefully. I just love the creative energy behind this game. So much potential.
I wouldn't mind either way, if this were a new game or something we haven't seen in Galaxy. There's nothing unbelievably new in Mario, nothing that will totally change gaming as we know it.
But has that even happened since Mario 64? Or maybe earlier, the original Donkey Kong game? Neither of those even seemed like that much of a leap, either.
Don't expect too much. Galaxy looks like enough for me, more than enough. It looks incredible. And if something else is coming too, that's great. But this has me excited enough as is.
Post by: Wackman on May 24, 2006, 11:15:50 AM
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Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I don't need Nintendo to revolutionize the industry every time they make a game. I'd just end up getting dizzy and confused.
I love the look of Super Mario Galaxy. The planets, the altered gravity, the pointer aspect, the beautiful art, the sound and music, and everything else. And I've only seen about ten minutes of gameplay, if that.
This is my most anticipated game. It adds tons of new stuff to the basic Mario concept, far more than Super Mario Sunshine, and it's being done very gracefully. I just love the creative energy behind this game. So much potential.
I wouldn't mind either way, if this were a new game or something we haven't seen in Galaxy. There's nothing unbelievably new in Mario, nothing that will totally change gaming as we know it.
But has that even happened since Mario 64? Or maybe earlier, the original Donkey Kong game? Neither of those even seemed like that much of a leap, either.
Don't expect too much. Galaxy looks like enough for me, more than enough. It looks incredible. And if something else is coming too, that's great. But this has me excited enough as is.
I totally agree. Mario looks exactly like it (and sunshine) should look. and expect some exciting new gameply too. this game has had a devellopment time of five years or even more. For me, this is my most anticipated game also (and probably Zelda TP)
Post by: stevey on May 24, 2006, 11:47:24 AM
Post by: King of Twitch on May 24, 2006, 02:02:23 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 24, 2006, 02:12:10 PM
Post by: IceCold on May 24, 2006, 02:32:32 PM
Firstly, how much more can you do with the Mario platformer formula while keeping it intuitive? Even with the jump to SM64, it was, at its core, the same basic game. Analogue control perfected platforming motion in the 3D world, and now, even with the new controller, not much can be improved on. This is exactly why, even though the development team tried many different things with the controller, Miyamoto overruled it since they didn't make controlling Mario any more intuitive. In fact, it was the opposite. Thinking about it, this is really the first console Nintendo has ever made whose control scheme is not tailored for a Mario game. The NES, well, we all know about Mario's escapades on it. The SNES was an extension. Mario 64 was a pioneer in analogue control, with the 64 controller. Then the GameCube, another extension, was the best controller for platformers, bar none. The Wii, on the other hand, is not designed specifically for a game like Mario, but instead opens the door to many other genres. So you want a "radically different" Mario? Well, now that would be a disaster..
And even with these limitations, Galaxy still uses the controller beautifully while staying true to its roots. It's the perfect balance of traditional platforming and new, innovative use of the controller without overusing it just for the novelty.
I'm also going to thoroughly disagree with you about the fact that you could be playing this on the GameCube. Graphics aside, did you watch the videos? Specifically the one with the Spider boss.. Tell me with a straight face that that can be done well with a GameCube controller. And this is just a glimpse of the ideas that Miyamoto has running through his head. There will no doubt be other brilliant ways that unlock the potential of the controller in Galaxy without utilising it in excess.
Mario Galaxy is my most anticipated game. I haven't felt this longing for a game since the 64 era. It does everything I expected and more, with some awesome additions. A platformer is extremely difficult to translate to this new control scheme, yet Miyamoto has found a way again. I just don't understand your concerns, Mario; I don't think you want a Mario game at all by the sounds of it, rather a completely new game with a new concept.
Post by: Wackman on May 24, 2006, 02:38:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Wow, I'll have to disagree with a lot of the things you said, Mario.. "Nothing new"? "A disaster"?
Firstly, how much more can you do with the Mario platformer formula while keeping it intuitive? Even with the jump to SM64, it was, at its core, the same basic game. Analogue control perfected platforming motion in the 3D world, and now, even with the new controller, not much can be improved on. This is exactly why, even though the development team tried many different things with the controller, Miyamoto overruled it since they didn't make controlling Mario any more intuitive. In fact, it was the opposite. Thinking about it, this is really the first console Nintendo has ever made whose control scheme is not tailored for a Mario game. The NES, well, we all know about Mario's escapades on it. The SNES was an extension. Mario 64 was a pioneer in analogue control, with the 64 controller. Then the GameCube, another extension, was the best controller for platformers, bar none. The Wii, on the other hand, is not designed specifically for a game like Mario, but instead opens the door to many other genres. So you want a "radically different" Mario? Well, now that would be a disaster..
And even with these limitations, Galaxy still uses the controller beautifully while staying true to its roots. It's the perfect balance of traditional platforming and new, innovative use of the controller without overusing it just for the novelty.
I'm also going to thoroughly disagree with you about the fact that you could be playing this on the GameCube. Graphics aside, did you watch the videos? Specifically the one with the Spider boss.. Tell me with a straight face that that can be done well with a GameCube controller. And this is just a glimpse of the ideas that Miyamoto has running through his head. There will no doubt be other brilliant ways that unlock the potential of the controller in Galaxy without utilising it in excess.
Mario Galaxy is my most anticipated game. I haven't felt this longing for a game since the 64 era. It does everything I expected and more, with some awesome additions. A platformer is extremely difficult to translate to this new control scheme, yet Miyamoto has found a way again. I just don't understand your concerns, Mario; I don't think you want a Mario game at all by the sounds of it, rather a completely new game with a new concept.
Couldn't agree more. I want it I want it I want it.....
Post by: Jensen on May 24, 2006, 02:49:04 PM
Can you think of anything that could change the game radically while still being a Mario game at its core? I assume you still want a platformer, because we have already seen Mario in just about every other genre.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 24, 2006, 03:44:32 PM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on May 24, 2006, 05:07:01 PM
First off I think based on what you've seen its too early to say that.
Secondly its too early in the Wii's lifetime to expect the massive leaps you want, developers are still getting used to the new system so, even Miyamato said that this first gen of Wii software will merely be old games played with a new control style.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 24, 2006, 06:26:22 PM
Post by: cubist on May 24, 2006, 06:31:22 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 24, 2006, 06:43:35 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on May 24, 2006, 06:48:36 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 24, 2006, 06:54:22 PM
Sunshine was awesome :P
Post by: Infernal Monkey on May 24, 2006, 06:57:17 PM
Post by: Crimm on May 24, 2006, 07:00:34 PM
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Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Maybe the new thing for Mario Miyamoto was talking about was the multiplayer he mentioned. Where the other players help in Mario Galaxy?
When Miyamoto and Masahiro Sakurai were showing off the SSBB trailer it came up. I think it was Sakurai who mentioned some talk of having one person control the pointer and the other Mario himself.
Post by: IceCold on May 24, 2006, 07:10:01 PM
Post by: Svevan on May 24, 2006, 07:12:52 PM
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Originally posted by: cubist
the use of the pointer along with the Mario is bad ass
Actually, it wasn't. The worst part about the Super Mario Galaxy demo at E3 was the pointer. We only started to see it used well by the end of the demo: one of the paths led to these blobs of putty that you could pull back with the pointer, then release. Picking up shards with it was pointless.
The pointer in general raises a question that was discussed at E3 by the PGC staffers: who are you controlling in this game? With the joystick and A button, it seems like you're controlling Mario, but with the Wii Remote it feels like some observer (the player) is interfering. You are half-Mario, half-notMario, which makes for a very odd Mario feeling. I am not personally against this, and truthfully I think it's rather revolutionary, (we can start to see a dichotomy of perspectives and personas that the player must inhabit; see also Contact for the DS), but I'd rather see it in a new IP than in a Mario game. If they have a premise that makes this control scheme work in the Mario universe, then great. Just don't make me pick up shards or click on items to use them - no one wants to control Mario with a mouse.
From PGC's interview with Takashi Tezuka:
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This was a show floor build. It was made condensing a bunch of little stuff to make it very easy for people to see what's incorporated in parts of the game. So rather than a specific hub—again, it's a show floor version of the game.
Also:
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PGC: We've seen in the background of the game what looks like a very, very large planet way in the distance that it looks like maybe all of the smaller moons and planets are orbiting. Does that large planet play into the game at all?
TT: Please, I hope you look forward to finding that answer out.
The impression that our interviewers (Mike Sklens and Michael "TYP" Cole) got was that though the game will predominantly take place in space (not outer space, notice the planet very nearby) there is more to it than what we saw. Judging by the gameplay, Super Mario Galaxy doesn't look all that revolutionary. I felt like Sunshine was a lot like Super Mario 64, I had just about as much fun playing one as the other. This game will be a lot like both, with a new gravity twist.
Until we see more of the meat of the game, including the full premise, setting, and story, we won't know how "innovative" Nintendo is intending to be. The Mario games of the 3-D era, (as well as certain 2-D Marios), have been only half-revolutionary. Mario 64 is a landmine of revolution in one regard, but it was also instantly recognizable and classic. Mario Sunshine, I feel, did the same thing (in more gameplay specific ways) and Mario Galaxy will probably be similar. Some new, some old. Let's love that.
Post by: IceCold on May 24, 2006, 07:23:08 PM
QuoteI was not under that impression at all. This is what he said..
Originally posted by: EvanTBurchfield
This goes along with the idea of a new concept that our poster "Mario" is quite against
QuoteI believe this means that he hopes that Miyamoto is not talking about Galaxy when he says that he wants to implement something new, since in his opinion, there is nothing new or revolutionary in Galaxy. He is actually quite the opposite from what you say he is; he wants a completely new and revolutionary Mario, and for him, Galaxy isn't it.
I hope to crap that Mario Galaxy isn't the game he's talking about, because I don't see anything unbelievably new in it at all.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 24, 2006, 07:24:01 PM
Post by: Svevan on May 24, 2006, 07:28:51 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 24, 2006, 07:50:56 PM
Post by: Kairon on May 24, 2006, 08:24:59 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Artimus on May 24, 2006, 08:27:36 PM
Post by: IceCold on May 24, 2006, 08:32:24 PM
QuoteAh, you sneaky little bugger
Originally posted by: EvanTBurchfield
Sorry IceCold: I posted the first draft of my post, then quickly edited it once I had my thoughts together. Reread it and that sentence is gone. =)
Post by: wandering on May 24, 2006, 08:37:36 PM
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Originally posted by: Mario
Here's a tidbit from the new Japanese Famitsu Magazine from a Miyamoto interview, where seemingly he has another Mario game on his mindQuote
In addition Miyamoto would like to make something not yet seen in a Mario game possible on Wii. This could be a reference to a new Mario game for Wii other than Super Mario Galaxy.
I hope to crap that Mario Galaxy isn't the game he's talking about, because I don't see anything unbelievably new in it at all.
I'm not sure if it's fair to judge the game's 'newness' based on a short demo, which is undoubtedy just barely scratching the surface of the game.
I also think you're giving the game too little credit. It looks like Miyamoto has deisgned a platformer here where there is no true up or down, which has never been done before.
Post by: Kairon on May 24, 2006, 08:47:05 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Wackman on May 25, 2006, 01:16:23 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 25, 2006, 08:08:06 AM
I don't expect a big jump like Super Mario 64 was. I can't expect that. That's a once in a lifetime thing. You'll never see that kind of jump any time soon so don't expect it. To me Super Mario Galaxy is enough of a new concept that I'm excited about it. I see a similar jump as I did between the 2D Marios. The planet concept is creative enough to justify the existence of the game. And while I found the waterpack in Sunshine to be forced this seems more nature. I can't explain why, it just feels more natural to me.
I will agree however that as a killer app for the remote Super Mario Galaxy fails. But then so does every game Nintendo showed at E3 except WiiSports. But that doesn't hurt my appreciation in Super Mario Galaxy. It hurts my appreciation of the Wii as a console but not the Mario game itself. Super Mario Galaxy just confirms what I suspected all along: when designing the Wii Nintendo intentionally tried to be "innovative" and designed a controller without any real ideas in mind for it. As a result most usage of the new idea is forced. I think it's impressive that despite that Super Mario Galaxy is still comes across as very fresh and creative. Yeah it could be done on the Cube but that doesn't mean it's not a creative game.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on May 25, 2006, 08:20:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I will agree however that as a killer app for the remote Super Mario Galaxy fails. But then so does every game Nintendo showed at E3 except WiiSports. But that doesn't hurt my appreciation in Super Mario Galaxy. It hurts my appreciation of the Wii as a console but not the Mario game itself. Super Mario Galaxy just confirms what I suspected all along: when designing the Wii Nintendo intentionally tried to be "innovative" and designed a controller without any real ideas in mind for it. As a result most usage of the new idea is forced. I think it's impressive that despite that Super Mario Galaxy is still comes across as very fresh and creative. Yeah it could be done on the Cube but that doesn't mean it's not a creative game.
I think its too early too make such a statement Ian, you saw what maybe 5-10 minutes of gameplay for a demo made for E3, you really think all the secrets of the gameplay will be revealed in 5-10 minutes (especially for a downgraded demo)?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 25, 2006, 08:36:20 AM
Althought I don't want to get into comparisons with Super Mario 64 again, the N64's intial E3 lineup in 1996 demonstrated within five minutes of gameplay how essential the analog stick was. If the remote is as essential as the analog stick, and that's what Nintendo wants, then everyone would get it the second the games were revealed.
Post by: Requiem on May 25, 2006, 08:40:28 AM
I agree about Super Mario Galaxy. It doesn't seem all that revolutionary. However, generalizing that statement to include the Wii console is ridiculous.
Post by: thejeek on May 25, 2006, 08:45:45 AM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on May 25, 2006, 08:48:25 AM
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"I think its too early too make such a statement Ian, you saw what maybe 5-10 minutes of gameplay for a demo made for E3, you really think all the secrets of the gameplay will be revealed in 5-10 minutes (especially for a downgraded demo)?"
Althought I don't want to get into comparisons with Super Mario 64 again, the N64's intial E3 lineup in 1996 demonstrated within five minutes of gameplay how essential the analog stick was. If the remote is as essential as the analog stick, and that's what Nintendo wants, then everyone would get it the second the games were revealed.
Like you said, the jump to Mario 64 it was much easier to tell the difference because anyone could see it (2d to 3d movement) with the jump to Galaxy you can't see a change as easily because where do they have to go from there visually? The change in Galaxy will have to be experienced by actually playing it.
Quote
However, generalizing that statement to include the Wii console is ridiculous.
Agreed, even Miyamato said that the first gen Wii games might not showthe full potential of the system
Post by: Strell on May 25, 2006, 08:54:18 AM
I keep thinking the same people that say things like that are the same ones saying Wind Waker was the worst Zelda.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 25, 2006, 08:58:48 AM
They said the same thing about the touchscreen and I've yet to be sold on that concept. It was the same with connectivity and the Cube clicky triggers. When Nintendo comes up with some innovative hardware idea they should have some game ideas around that necessitated the new hardware in the first place. If they just come up with the idea out of the blue and then think "well I'm sure we'll come up with some cool ideas for this" then the odds of it becoming essential later is pretty slim, just from experience in the past. The really good hardware ideas that Nintendo has come up with always had good games using them and proving the concept right from the start. That's because a good idea comes about as a way of providing a solution. So the game ideas need to be there first, and then the hardware is created to allow those ideas to become reality. If the game ideas aren't there to begin with then the whole idea is merely theoretical and may never amount to anything, and usually doesn't.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on May 25, 2006, 09:11:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Agreed, even Miyamato said that the first gen Wii games might not showthe full potential of the system"
They said the same thing about the touchscreen and I've yet to be sold on that concept. It was the same with connectivity and the Cube clicky triggers. When Nintendo comes up with some innovative hardware idea they should have some game ideas around that necessitated the new hardware in the first place. If they just come up with the idea out of the blue and then think "well I'm sure we'll come up with some cool ideas for this" then the odds of it becoming essential later is pretty slim, just from experience in the past. The really good hardware ideas that Nintendo has come up with always had good games using them and proving the concept right from the start. That's because a good idea comes about as a way of providing a solution. So the game ideas need to be there first, and then the hardware is created to allow those ideas to become reality. If the game ideas aren't there to begin with then the whole idea is merely theoretical and may never amount to anything, and usually doesn't.
You aren't sold on the touchscreen (you must have never played Nintendogs, kirby Canvas curse, etc.), as for connectivity it was basically a testing ground for the DS, plus they have plans to implement DS wii connestion via Wi-fi, so in truth connectivity worked well to set up future ideas
Post by: Requiem on May 25, 2006, 09:13:29 AM
What Nintendo probably did first before creating the N64 and the beloved Mario was research what's out there. Research would could potentially make a great system and great games.
They found 3-D graphics and the analog stick. From that they allowed Miyamoto to work his magic and incoorperate those things into a game. Voila! Mario 64 was born!
Post by: WesDawg on May 25, 2006, 11:25:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
Man. Did people play a different Mario Sunshine than me? Cuz it was pretty brilliant.
I keep thinking the same people that say things like that are the same ones saying Wind Waker was the worst Zelda.
I loved SMS too. In fact, I went back right after it and played SM64, and the game is completely unplayable next to Sunshine. It was a huge jump. Not to mention the coolness that the special levels were.
If anything, Galaxy is what will sell me a Wii. I could care less if its revolutionary or not.
