Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Dirk Temporo on May 17, 2006, 12:37:21 AM
Title: Clarification plz.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 17, 2006, 12:37:21 AM
Okay, so we saw the "classic controller" for the Virtual Console. Now the real questions is... Is it the "shell" they were talking about that would allow you to play more traditional next-gen games? If you ask me, I say no, for the main reason that Nintendo (unlike Sony, apparently) knows that the majority of modern games use the analog stick, not the D-pad, and it would be silly of them to make the shell the way the classic controller looks. I don't like the idea of having to buy yet another attachment, but I do like the idea of the shell being more... modern.
Title: RE: Clarification plz.
Post by: Requiem on May 17, 2006, 01:45:50 AM
It's the shell. Though just a prototype, this is what it is.
The D-pad is in the right place. The majority of the VC games are going to be old school games that used the D-pad. In fact, the only system that won't use the D-pad is the N64. That doesn't give it priority over the D-pad.
Also, though you can't see it in normal photos, there is a clip on the back for the Wiimote. It becomes a hybrid like the shell......is.
Title: RE: Clarification plz.
Post by: Bloodworth on May 17, 2006, 07:08:17 AM
A lot of people have been concerned about the analog stick's placement (and I would be too). But from my time with it, the stick didn't feel nearly as out of place as the one on the dual shock. I controlled Super Mario 64 just as well as on N64 except for the goofy Z button placement (it's the inner shoulder button on the RIGHT).
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: EasyCure on May 17, 2006, 07:16:46 AM
blah that stpuid z button...it should be a trigger underneath the left hand side of the controller to give it that more instictive feel that the n64 controller had, i hope they change it but i doubht it. i still like the overall design too, SNES pad was my favorite of all nintendo controllers, even though it could become uncomfortable after a while (GCN pad had the best comfort IMO)
Title: RE: Clarification plz.
Post by: mantidor on May 17, 2006, 07:20:52 AM
oh god, that sucks, I mean that is the most used button in the Zelda games for the N64, they have to change that assignation. Im not so fond of the stick replacing buttons also, with Mario 64 it doesn't matter because c buttons were camera ones, but for Zelda or games like Castlevania 64 (yes, shoking but I liked it :P) it presents a problem. They should've had more games to show, but it seems that the things related to the virtual console are pretty much incomplete at this point.
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 17, 2006, 07:28:52 AM
Well, if you have the Zelda Collector's edtion, you can always play those version of N64 Zelda
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: Crimm on May 17, 2006, 07:59:41 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Bloodworthexcept for the goofy Z button placement (it's the inner shoulder button on the RIGHT).
I was going to ask about that.
Anyway, do we know what the shelf looking thing is on the bottom? I've heard that it could be for the Wii-mote to click in, but it doesn't look like it would fit.
Title: RE: Clarification plz.
Post by: Pale on May 17, 2006, 08:33:27 AM
The fact of the matter here is that the placement of the analog stick on the dual shock is only viewed as bad by people who want to hate on Sony. I've played PLENTY of PS2 games with the dual shock and never thought "Damn, I wish the stick was up here..." For that reason I had no problem with the classic controller at E3.
As far as clicking the Wii-mote to the back... SOMETHING definately snaps in back there, but there were no corresponding clips on the back of any of the remotes on display, so it doesn't appear to be for that, unless there is some sort of bracket.
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: RiskyChris on May 17, 2006, 09:31:15 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Pale The fact of the matter here is that the placement of the analog stick on the dual shock is only viewed as bad by people who want to hate on Sony. I've played PLENTY of PS2 games with the dual shock and never thought "Damn, I wish the stick was up here..." For that reason I had no problem with the classic controller at E3.
As far as clicking the Wii-mote to the back... SOMETHING definately snaps in back there, but there were no corresponding clips on the back of any of the remotes on display, so it doesn't appear to be for that, unless there is some sort of bracket.
The PS2 was my favorite ex-gen system, but when I saw the unveiling of the PS3 controller I groaned at the still archaic placement of the analog sticks...
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on May 17, 2006, 11:18:59 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo Okay, so we saw the "classic controller" for the Virtual Console. Now the real questions is... Is it the "shell" they were talking about that would allow you to play more traditional next-gen games? If you ask me, I say no, for the main reason that Nintendo (unlike Sony, apparently) knows that the majority of modern games use the analog stick, not the D-pad, and it would be silly of them to make the shell the way the classic controller looks. I don't like the idea of having to buy yet another attachment, but I do like the idea of the shell being more... modern.
It'll be updated for launch, like the stupid cord to the Wiimote will probably be gone, and the placement of some of the buttons and sticks will probably change a little.
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: Zach on May 17, 2006, 12:13:36 PM
Quote Originally posted by: mantidor oh god, that sucks, I mean that (The Z button) is the most used button in the Zelda games for the N64, they have to change that assignation.
Ive actually thought about that, since the Z button placement is not so good. The thing is most N64 games used either the Z trigger, or the L, but practically none used both. Thats just because of the setup of the controller, if you used the analog stick, then the game would use the Z trigger. If the D-pad was used, then the game used the L button. SO because of this, most N64 games that used the Z trigger a lot (Such as OOT), could easily have that function mapped to the L trigger on the new classic controller.
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 17, 2006, 12:24:55 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Requiem It's the shell. Though just a prototype, this is what it is.
The D-pad is in the right place. The majority of the VC games are going to be old school games that used the D-pad. In fact, the only system that won't use the D-pad is the N64. That doesn't give it priority over the D-pad.
But remember, it's not just VC games that will use this. Traditional next-gen games will too. So that means the shell will be used for NES, SNES, N64, and Wii games.
Title: RE: Clarification plz.
Post by: ThePerm on May 17, 2006, 01:42:06 PM
this is one of those times i'll probably get a third party controller.
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2006, 01:44:46 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Pale The fact of the matter here is that the placement of the analog stick on the dual shock is only viewed as bad by people who want to hate on Sony. I've played PLENTY of PS2 games with the dual shock and never thought "Damn, I wish the stick was up here..." For that reason I had no problem with the classic controller at E3
For me it's "Why the hell am I holding this piece of crap?" The Dual Shock, to me, is the worst controller ever designed...Even worse than the XBox "HugeBox" controller...
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 17, 2006, 01:56:16 PM
Bill:
Oh I hate the original Xbox controller it was the worst controller I have used to play a game. (I never played the Jaguar) The smaller Xbox controller really isn't that much better either. I am glad that Microsoft did a controller design right with the Xbox 360.
The PS2 Dual Shock Controller is pretty bad for several reasons, but not the worst. I dunno why Sony designed that Stupid D-pad that doesn't connect. It makes it worthless to me. The analog sticks positions aren't annoying...it is the feel of the analog sticks, which aren't very good. Finally the button names are really dumb, and the 4 trigger buttons are just confusing not functional.
That being said. Looking at the classic Wii controller. I like it. If the analog sticks have the same degree of sensitivity as the Gamecube controller then we are set. I also like the button placement much better. It will feel right. I also believe it will be pretty easy to reach and hit the Right Analog Stick if need be while quickly returning to the buttons. Everything seems right, except for the Z-button.
But really what were you going to do with that? You can't create a trigger button again...so you are left with how Nintendo designed it for the Gamecube. Hopefully, they will add another one to the other side, just so game designers don't have to leave functionality out if they are porting games.
Title: RE: Clarification plz.
Post by: IceCold on May 17, 2006, 01:58:49 PM
Quote The fact of the matter here is that the placement of the analog stick on the dual shock is only viewed as bad by people who want to hate on Sony. I've played PLENTY of PS2 games with the dual shock and never thought "Damn, I wish the stick was up here..." For that reason I had no problem with the classic controller at E3.
I don't think it's the "fact of the matter"; there are many, many games that I've played on the PS2 in which I cursed at the placement of the analogue stick. The Dualshock is a joke, from the annoyingly uncomfortable design that is apparent when you hold it to the split D-pad to the front shoulder buttons that are awkward to push to the analogue sticks which lack the necessary resistance to the silly shapes in place of letters.
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: Jensen on May 17, 2006, 04:41:22 PM
The motion sensor costs Nintendo less than $2. It would be better to build it into the controller than to try some akward shell. I just hope they let us connect the classic controller to the system instead of the Wiimote
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: Shecky on May 17, 2006, 05:27:07 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Zach Ive actually thought about that, since the Z button placement is not so good. The thing is most N64 games used either the Z trigger, or the L, but practically none used both. Thats just because of the setup of the controller, if you used the analog stick, then the game would use the Z trigger. If the D-pad was used, then the game used the L button. SO because of this, most N64 games that used the Z trigger a lot (Such as OOT), could easily have that function mapped to the L trigger on the new classic controller.
I second this, they should have a default Z <-> L Flip for N64 games. I mean that's what the GCN versions of Zelda OoT and MM do.
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: Jensen on May 17, 2006, 07:34:17 PM
Because the games are downloaded, they can fix any broken control scheme, so I wouldn't worry about it.
Title: RE: Clarification plz.
Post by: Requiem on May 17, 2006, 07:38:56 PM
What' stopping Nintendo from allowing you complete freedom to map the buttons? I've used an emulator and it's probably the most useful feature.
Title: RE:Clarification plz.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 18, 2006, 12:33:56 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Pale My opinion of the matter here is that the placement of the analog stick on the dual shock is only viewed as bad by people who want to hate on Sony.
Fixed. I don't hate Sony, but I think the controller is stupid as hell.
