Post by: getter77 on May 15, 2006, 04:45:35 PM
The general feel to most people, based on the speculations and reported insider tips so far, place the Wii at a likely price range of $199-$299. Many are singing the praises of such a possibility...but many of those are basing that on comparitive terms with the PS3 in particular---not absolutes.
Nintendo's core mantra for this console has been "attract new people to gaming and bring back those that retired from it in the past." This is surely a fine strategy they have come up with supplemented by offerings to please the current gamers. However, all of Nintendo's past "traditional" consoles have launched at around the 200-250 range.
Nintendo keeps saying that this isn't a "next/another generation" but rather a "new" generation. Yet, if they launch this console for the same price or more as all of their previous offerings...which were not effective on their target groups...is that not a foolish move?
Granted, there is a respectable increase in power relative to the GC and a snazzy new controller style at play...as well as the obvious drive to make good profits on hardware sold----as is Nintendo's tradition. However, I worry that people may be getting ahead of themselves to grasp too big a bite to chew $$$ wise after Sony's PS3 price point announcement.
Will Nintendo, in an effort to secure some extra profit per console only, fail in securing any of their new target groups due to maintaining or raising their traditional price threshhold? Or will they make good on their bravado and launch the Wii realistically under $199...like say 150/175...at prices that challenge the "serious business" view of getting into videogames and make room for a larger variety of would-be gamers?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 15, 2006, 04:54:24 PM
Post by: getter77 on May 15, 2006, 05:07:26 PM
What I mean to say was, this time the gap between the others cost wise is hilariously huge. But that gap means NOTHING to those currently out of gaming...whom Nintendo wants. This means the price is viewed on absolute and not comparitive terms. 250=250. And if they weren't interested in any past gaming console, be it Nintendo or anybody else's, why should they care about one on par with or possibly even more expensive than all the rest?
Post by: IceCold on May 15, 2006, 05:51:31 PM
At first I thought that this was a thread for a game called "Temptation of Greed".. Anyway, you're right; the market that Nintendo is aiming for will not drop hundreds of dollars for a videogame console. Nintendo wants it to be an impulse buy for nongamers, but that will only happen if the price is accessible. However, Nintendo knows that there will be early adopters, even at a higher price. So if it launches at $200, it will sell out at first, and continue to sell pretty well to gamers alone, be they casual or hardcore ones. Then, later on, when there is a sizeable collection of "nongames" on the Wii, they will drop the price to appeal to the nongamers. This is when they will market the console heavily and try to realise their "Blue Ocean" strategy.
Post by: Requiem on May 15, 2006, 05:54:07 PM
Um....it is...
Post by: IceCold on May 15, 2006, 06:12:27 PM
QuoteEh? Where the hell did you get that from?
Originally posted by: Requiem
"At first I thought that this was a thread for a game called "Temptation of Greed""
Um....it is...
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 15, 2006, 06:19:31 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 16, 2006, 12:50:38 AM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on May 16, 2006, 02:36:17 AM
Post by: getter77 on May 16, 2006, 05:57:01 AM
Point is, I'll be amazed if Nintendo can conquer sections of the world population that they have never before by doing things the same way or maybe a bit pricier than all their previous efforts. The problem with the early adopter strategy is that, barring perhaps gains made from E3, Nintendo's "core folk" have been declining over the years. Kinda like how some people figure Sony's core will sell enough PS3's at launch and a bit beyond to avoid dooming the system and several companies until enough price drops happen for everyone else to consider the system. I think the consensus was that Sony was crazy to think that'd work, and though Nin's sistuation isn't a total mirror of that, do we really want to risk going down that road?
The most important time for a console, IMO, is around launch time. That'll be when you have your biggest push of marketing, most word of mouth.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 16, 2006, 06:09:53 AM
Post by: getter77 on May 16, 2006, 06:27:42 AM
I mean, this is a big point for Nintendo. If they sell decent enough....like say a little better than the GC...but nothing earth shaking...then Nintendo doesn't fail, BUT THEIR ENTIRE GOAL SET DOES. They could sell plenty to gamers and all, and that'll make them more good moeny...but if a significant chunk of sales aren't the non-gamers and former gamers...it is an ideological defeat. In that scenario, where in the hell does Nintendo go from there? The industry even? The ideology Nintendo is allegedly aiming for this generation is paramount to gaming at large. It really needs to work and Nintendo needs to spare no effort to ensure it success.
Regardless of PS3, 150 is a "why not?" price....200....isn't really within the same subset. Saying, " 2 years from now we'll be at a good price" won't quite cut it methinks...Nintendo needs to come out swinging from the get go to establish an insurmountable distance from the "competition"
Post by: couchmonkey on May 16, 2006, 07:41:03 AM
I agree that Nintendo needs to launch this for no more than $200 if it wants to get the non-gamer market, but I think that's been part of the strategy all along. It's a big part of the reason Nintendo isn't cramming this with lots of power, I think. The other reason being that it doesn't want to spend the cash on high-def graphics. I think the company could do okay at $200, assuming a price drop came along in a reasonable amount of time, but even cheaper would be better. $250 will be too much, although honestly I'll pay that for one.
Post by: Kairon on May 16, 2006, 09:19:58 AM
Either way, I believe that if a console hits mass market price in its first year that should be significant enough to distance itself from its competition. Assuming a $200 launch (which, admittedly, isn't quite as mass market as you would have liked) the price could drop to $149.99 by Christmas 2007. This year-after price-drop, I believe, would give enough time for early-adopters to get out of the way, and would allow for word of mouth to reach a sustainable level. The Wii will definitely make a splash, but it'd take at least 6 months to enter the overall cultural awareness via gravy train campaigns.
Also, I would suggest that you don't underestimate the amount of disposable income that people have. Non-gamers are also people who spend large amounts of money for diet plans, self-help books, cell phone ring tones, fast food, movie tickets, boom boxes and clothes. Nintendo believes that these people will be interested in games as well IF significant barriers like control method or total price were reduced.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: getter77 on May 16, 2006, 09:41:03 AM
-According to everywhere I've seen that tracks videogames on the net....EVERYWHERE pretty much is spouting the Wii to launch between 200-300. I think we had a thread on one of the sources, an EGM leak..awhile back here? My contention is that those singing praise from the rafters regarding this speculated price are doing so solely based upon the competition aspect with the PS3 price and fanboys....NOT Nintendo's actual philosophy espoused for this "new" generation of gaming they are leading.
-Nintendo hasn't said, although there was a recent interview where a rep said something allong the lines of "wouldn't be much more expensive than out previous console(s)" (rough quote). Nintendo suddenly got QUIET right after the PS3 price and feature announcement....understandably so given in part of what went down. I worry that they may think they can "get away" with charging more for the Wii than is sensible based on the price of their supposed "non-competition".
-To me, releasing a new console....yet counting not on the release---but rather a HOPEFUL price drop in a year's time to ACTUALLY start to achieve goals borders on being foolhardy. The future is entirely unstable in regards to the consumer market/demands. Thus, best foot forward is the best possibility lest nobody is in a position to care/manage in the future on it. You might make less initial per console unit profit, but you will surely secure more overall profit throughout the console's lifespan.
-The notion of nongamers being the disposable trendy crowd in part is well made. However, let's assume, as is reality, that MANY more people are of much less money to throw around at entertainment amenities. Especially on the international scale. Those same people, by that minding, would be no more likely to pick up a Wii than to get any of the other systems since cost isn't really an object compared to their other indulgences. Let's be frank: Sony says poor peope should need toil extra for some videogame entertainment, Nintendo "publicly" begs to differ. Nintendo NEEDS to come to bat on that though. A lower than "usual business" console price is an extended hand towards all the people who simply can't/won't manage along the "traditional" price threshold lines for videogames that have cropped up over the years. As well as those that were once inclined or able to....but are currently strapped/hesitant for gaming.
Am I making any more sense at all?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 16, 2006, 09:43:30 AM
Me too. It sounded like a GTA style game from the title, probably with annoying hip-hop stuff in it.
Right now I think the only thing they have to do about price is have something that isn't expensive. The PS3 $600 price tag really makes it easy to look affordable in comparison. Nintendo's biggest hurdles are marketing and third party support. Those are what will make or break the Wii above all else. With the competition's prices being so high Nintendo pretty much just has to not f*ck up the price and they'll be fine with that issue. It SHOULD be easy (but then so is naming your console so who knows with Nintendo).
Though personally I'll be a little peeved if it costs more that $200. This is pretty much a Gamecube 1.5 with a new controller. If Nintendo is going to gut the hardware to all hell I would at least appreciate getting a low price from it.
Controller costs is probably the bigger issue. How cheap are they to make? Multiplayer support isn't going to be so hot if people can't afford to buy extra controllers.
Post by: Requiem on May 16, 2006, 09:44:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteEh? Where the hell did you get that from?
Originally posted by: Requiem
"At first I thought that this was a thread for a game called "Temptation of Greed""
Um....it is...
Hahaha...I have to learn to read entire sentences, before repling. I though you said, I thought this was a THREAD called "...."
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on May 16, 2006, 10:04:46 AM
Post by: Kairon on May 16, 2006, 10:05:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: getter77
Kairon: Sorry if I come across as unclear. Lemme see:
-According to everywhere I've seen that tracks videogames on the net....EVERYWHERE pretty much is spouting the Wii to launch between 200-300. I think we had a thread on one of the sources, an EGM leak..awhile back here? My contention is that those singing praise from the rafters regarding this speculated price are doing so solely based upon the competition aspect with the PS3 price and fanboys....NOT Nintendo's actual philosophy espoused for this "new" generation of gaming they are leading.
-Nintendo hasn't said, although there was a recent interview where a rep said something allong the lines of "wouldn't be much more expensive than out previous console(s)" (rough quote). Nintendo suddenly got QUIET right after the PS3 price and feature announcement....understandably so given in part of what went down. I worry that they may think they can "get away" with charging more for the Wii than is sensible based on the price of their supposed "non-competition".
-To me, releasing a new console....yet counting not on the release---but rather a HOPEFUL price drop in a year's time to ACTUALLY start to achieve goals borders on being foolhardy. The future is entirely unstable in regards to the consumer market/demands. Thus, best foot forward is the best possibility lest nobody is in a position to care/manage in the future on it. You might make less initial per console unit profit, but you will surely secure more overall profit throughout the console's lifespan.
-The notion of nongamers being the disposable trendy crowd in part is well made. However, let's assume, as is reality, that MANY more people are of much less money to throw around at entertainment amenities. Especially on the international scale. Those same people, by that minding, would be no more likely to pick up a Wii than to get any of the other systems since cost isn't really an object compared to their other indulgences. Let's be frank: Sony says poor peope should need toil extra for some videogame entertainment, Nintendo "publicly" begs to differ. Nintendo NEEDS to come to bat on that though. A lower than "usual business" console price is an extended hand towards all the people who simply can't/won't manage along the "traditional" price threshold lines for videogames that have cropped up over the years. As well as those that were once inclined or able to....but are currently strapped/hesitant for gaming.
Am I making any more sense at all?
You're making sense, but I'm not convinced that a low price is absolutely necessary at launch. Everything will sell out at launch, so a low price is very impractical because non-gamers will be unable to get the system. Then they could forget about the system later on when stock DOES become available.
I mean, look at the X360. Who cares about it now? At launch it was all the rage, but now that it's in stock there's no real hype to drive people to stores.
Also, non-gamers and casual-casuals will absolutely NOT hear about the Wii until at least 6 months after launch. Only hardcores and attentive casuals will be grabbed initially no matter what you do, and it will take 6 months or a year for the Wii to actually enter the minds of casuals and non-gamers via word-of-mouth and other viral methods.
Finally, let's look at every blue-ocean casual successes: Titanic and Brain Age.
Titanic was big not because it had a decent launch, but because people heard about it through word of mouth and these people went to see the movie in theatres 4-6 months AFTER it came out. A large and long-term theatre time frame allowed for the 6-month stretch of casual-movie-goers to experience and drive the film to $900 million domestic intake. Titanic demonstrates that you will have people who hear about it 6 months later despite the product being huge on day 1. Thankfully, Titanic as a movie didn't really need to worry about whether it was in-stock or not.
And look at Brain Age. It was priced casually at the get-go, yes, but it is STILL on the top 10 JPN charts months and months after its release. People are still only hearing about it now, months after launch, and it is these people, not the early-adopters, who are actually being drawn in from the low price, in my opinion.
Now that I've said all that, I'm going to completely reverse my opinion. You are still reading right? LOL. After all my babble I've decided that I agree with you!
I do believe that a mass market price from the get-go could be VERY important and should be attempted BECAUSE then this mass market price will become part of the word-of-mouth together with the new control method, and paired together, it will offer a much more enticing aspect for people to find, play, and buy.
After all, it certainly didn't hurt Brain Age that you could tell adults that the game only cost $20, in fact this made the game more accessible not at the point of purchase, but at the point of word-of-mouth. The same for Titanic, $9 is doable and mass market, there's no barrier to make someone say "that sounds good, but it's too expensive." If the Wii launched Mass Market from the get-go, then people would say instead "That sounds exciting, AND it's so cheap! Double-score!"
... well, they wouldn't say EXACTLY that...but....yeah.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: getter77 on May 16, 2006, 10:37:37 AM
For Original Recipe Kairon:
-The fact that all the gamers will make the Wii (hopefully...DS Lite may have learned them) sell out at launch is a GREAT thing. However, it'll be equally great if the price is still that same LOWER THAN USUAL PRICE when stuff comes back in stock over the next couple months so everybody else can get the machine. Starting strong and staying strong will do wonders. 360...reason is hasn't done much is because in the same absolute terms Nintendo "should" be operating by...plus some other...400=400 and people just don't want to pay that much for a machine...even gamers. A low launch price with regular annual price drops creates the impulse that got Miyamoto hooked on whatever in the world he is hooked on: CURIOUSITY...and we all know how that turned out.
-With a Curious Price, just passing by the system inadvertently will be enough to lure in a sale regardless of marketing. Price speaks VOLUMES. Many people wander around Wal-Marts and such...thus exposure to a large group of people is GUARANTEED in addition to whatever marketing Nintendo does. Titanic operates on different rules than this due to it being a movie...ya can't demo it...if a friedn has it and ya see it there you likely care even less, etc. Plus they are more mass market by price/time consumption in general. Brain Age...well....appealing games are appealing game...whether a person is on time or late for the experience. The fact that it started cheap and stayed cheap surely allowed MANY more people to give into their thought to pick it up than would have been otherwise had it been $60 or something.
For Extra Crispy Kairon:
-It all comes down to kicking somebody in the testicles. If ya feign the kick...or only do it semi-lightly....you'll get beat down despite your intentions. If you throw all your skill and cunning into that ball shattering though...odds are you will succeed and people will know from then on that you mean business in your stated aims and goals. Nintendo is rearing back to kick the current videogame establishment paradigm. Going with it forthwright will enable success...anything else runs a serious risk of failure and loss of impact. Controllers aren't the only hurdle to gaming....price weighs in just as much if not more. 1 outta 2 Big N...finish it properly.
Post by: Kairon on May 16, 2006, 02:32:20 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I'm extra crispy
Post by: Ceric on May 16, 2006, 02:43:22 PM
I beleive that if you give the Wii a price point below $200 dollars it will be to trivial of a purchase. A throw away play thing. That stuff toy you never play with. The Wii MUST be at a cost were it is considered an investment with Minimal risk. I believe that the $250 is that price. It's enough that it's really not that hard to come up with for most people but they'll have to come up with it. The console should then be an investment.
Now the games on the other hand they should be relatively inexpensive. A little above handheld price. The console is an investment so when it is looking nice in your entertainment system you'll want to get your moneys worth out of it. You'll do that by use.
Nintendo wants to sell Software more than Hardware. There is a couple reasons for that.
1) The more Hardware that is out there the more likely it is to have a problem and the more resources have to go to support.
2) Software is just easier to stock an manage
I know you all are going to disagree, I mean I be happy with a $150 price point because I'm getting it no matter what. Though I would also like to say that a $150 is too close to the Handheld segment. You need the console far enough away from the Handheld that it doesn't drive it's available launch price down. "I could buy a Wii at Launch with the GBNext cost" thats what we call a no sale.
Oil is good in a car but to much oil is a bad thing. Same concept.
Anyway if the current hype is maintained Non-gamers aren't going to be able to get units for at least a little bit.
Post by: getter77 on May 16, 2006, 05:17:52 PM
-I don't buy into the trivial price "stuff toy" arguement. I buy into the cheap addiction one. I've never heard of anybody just chucking a console into the trash like a pack of stickers or something...even the broken PS2 folk. I've also never heard of anybody approaching a console as an investment.....though in hindsight I guess I can kinda see it. $250 is more than past systems have sold for that non-gamers didn't care to get into...so I can't see the controller suddenly softening their hearts and loosening their tight wallet grip.
-It'd be nice if the games were handheld cheap....but I doubt that'll happen. I figure some budget priced games ala Rampage and DMCIIISE here and there....but handhelds and consoles have always occupied separate price niches. If Nintendo tried that...well...it'd be a strange move but not necessariyl a great one.
-Nintendo wants to sell more hardware than software. Why?
-Unlike all the competition, they make good profit on every piece of hardware sold whereas all others take a moderate to huge loss. The more consoles sold=more potential outlets for games to be bought and used on.
-Software isn't so easy to stock..not when You are the Nintendo of lately. Most everyhwere I go the GC section is dwarfed by either or both xbox and PS stuff. Also, software sales are essential to everybody...but they don't make Nintendo pure profit like hardware sales do.
-Nintendo consoles are prided on their durability. Might as well sell tons and force the Customer Service reps to stop playing air hockey all damn day in the event that some of the machines EVER actually break down.
-Your point about not pricing the console too close to the handheld is muddled by your earlier want that the console games need to mirror the handheld pricing scheme...which is it? Remember who created the current handhled/console paradigm...NINTENDO. Thus, they are free to shift it anytime they feel like it in order to...hopefully...make to point that strong handhelds and coexist with strong consoles....at a great new price....while complimenting each other nicely since each serves a different need.
-Only way profit is bad for Nintendo is if they succumb to Greed. No harm in all at releasing stuff at a good, cheap price. Only if we get Atari style shovelware will your oil analogy be spot on. Considering the low dev costs both absolutley and comparitively, cheap established medium, and respectable rather than overblown spec boost since the GC....there's no reason why anybody would even come close to starving to death due to the Wii and games being nicely priced.
-Launch supply depends entirely on Nintendo learnign from the DS Lite. If they learned well....a sell out will be a hell of a trick INDEED. If they learned poorly...well....new shipments regularly wiht hopefully the same low low price.
Post by: Louieturkey on May 16, 2006, 06:37:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: getter77
Yeah, I gotta disagree at least in part Ceric.
-I don't buy into the trivial price "stuff toy" arguement. I buy into the cheap addiction one. I've never heard of anybody just chucking a console into the trash like a pack of stickers or something...even the broken PS2 folk. I've also never heard of anybody approaching a console as an investment.....though in hindsight I guess I can kinda see it. $250 is more than past systems have sold for that non-gamers didn't care to get into...so I can't see the controller suddenly softening their hearts and loosening their tight wallet grip.
Maybe you don't buy into the "stuff toy" argument, but the gaming public definitely does. I can recall on multiple occasions when I overheard someone saying around the launch of the GC that they would rather get an Xbox because the GC was just a toy and it was cheaper. It was considered inferior to the PS2 and Xbox because of the cheaper price. It still is by many Xbox fanboys.
While Nintendo wants to capture a new audience, they are not stupid enough to alienate their core audience and the gaming public in general. They know they need a good price point, but too cheap and it will be considered inferior and not worth people's time due to the close price point compared to handheld systems. This also brings up the fact that the PSP is $200, which makes me even more convinced that the Wii will be $250. They do not want people thinking that the PSP is a better system than the Wii and to do that, they have to put a premium on it in order for people to perceive the value of it being higher than the PSP. There are still many who think the PSP is a better system than the DS because it is more expensive(and it is better graphically but the games are extremely inferior). You put it at or lower than the PSP, you're labeling your console at a toy worth less than a handheld system. Not a good strategy.
Post by: wandering on May 16, 2006, 09:43:41 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on May 16, 2006, 10:35:11 PM
Post by: getter77 on May 17, 2006, 04:22:24 AM
-I fail to see why Nintendo should hamstring themself because Sony decided to overprice the, apparently having a rough time, PSP. You are pretty much comparing a fully fledged console with the express aim of appealing to non-gamers, Nintendo hardcore, and retired gamers with a massive shift in the controller paradigm vs a Sony handheld designed for the consumption of the Sony hardcore, with a nub, to give them an inhouse alternative to buying a Nintendo product. Unless Nintendo TOTALLY drops the ball on marketing...we're talking not even having a Wii hooked up to TV's to demonstrate here...the PSP should be another thought entirely. Nintendo needs to keep pushing the DS in order to maintain the dominance it still has on the PSP/Sony marketing juggernaut.
Wandering: You are probably right. Still, it can only help the odds that a game/gaming will look appealing enough for a person to try if the cost of INITIATION is set low enough to tempt CURIOUSITY. As it is now, and has been for awhile, you have to set down a hefty chunk of change just to get your feet wet. With any addictive product, rule number 1 is to get people hooked on the cheap...that way the little voice in their head that speaks to monetary issuesbased moreso on necessities gets just quiet enough. Nintendo was the one spouting all the "new" not "next" generation stuff so they should follow through on it and bring gaming prices down to a level that many more people can have a chance to appreciate. Unless there is some sort of insane technology hop in the next 5/6 years, Nintendo's next console, the HD one, will probably follow the same sort spec boost pattern that the Wii has---due to the point of diminishing returns. Just like a PS4 might well be $800 next time around.
All IMO. Nintendo is enjoying a brisk stroll while inexorably walking towards the edge of a cliff...all the while pondering how best to handle that looming situation. Sony and Microsoft are both inexorably sprinting full tilt, head to head with each other. They figure they'll just figure something AWESOME out right before going over the edge.
Post by: Ceric on May 17, 2006, 05:41:59 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on May 17, 2006, 06:19:06 AM
I don't think comparisons to the GameCube era are that relevant anymore. Nintendo isn't fighting the same battle it did with the GameCube, and so far the new direction has been a huge success. Nintendo is making the rules, and as such I think Nintendo should go with a price that's quite different from the competition. I think there's also the possibility Nintendo is still thinking about bundles and how those would affect pricing. Judging by all that "Wii=we" and "ii=two people" nonsense, Nintendo wants to push the multiplayer aspect of the Wii, and that could mean selling two (or even more) controllers with the system. If the controllers are expensive, this type of bundle might make a lot of sense.
One thing I agree with Ceric on is the pricing of games. Someone at Nintendo, it was Yamauchi or Iwata, once said something like the cost of the console is like the price of admission, it's a barrier to playing the games. That's true, but looking at how the cost of video games compares to other types of media, it seems the games themselves may be a barrier. Seriously, I can't think of a single medium more expensive than videogames (unless you count computer software as a "medium" - I don't.) DVD box sets of TV shows are in the same range, but those are a new phenomenon, and they don't have to overcome the barrier of people who have never watched TV or used a DVD player (well, okay, my grandparents don't have a DVD player, but they probably wouldn't be convinced to spend $50 on a show they can see for free on TV anyway).
I think it would be smart for Nintendo to offer cheaper games this generation. I think it's going to happen, but in a more minor way than I hope: probably Nintendo will make a lot of cheaper non-gamer games. Wii Sports is a good example, I'll be surprised if Nintendo launches that at the same price as Twighlight Princess and Metroid Prime 3. Still, how much cheaper will it be, and will we ever see traditional games at a cheaper price? Without waiting for the Player's Choice versions?
Post by: getter77 on May 17, 2006, 08:07:23 AM
The game pricing won't likely upend any apple carts....it'll be the starting console price that'll do all the really nice damage..."the price of admission".
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 17, 2006, 08:21:31 AM
I see the controllers ranging from $30.00-45.00
Yes I know its new technology and pretty expensive...but if you are promoting multiplayer party games you can't make additional controllers be that expensive.
I also expect that the classic controller will be around $25.00 or less. Yes, less...perhaps even $20.00
This will help promote the system as affordable, and help promote the idea of everyone having their own personal Wii controller system.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 17, 2006, 08:53:07 AM
I also have to disagree that the more expensive you make something in technology the more value it appears to have.
The Gamecube did not lose any sales because it was cheaper than the competition. Microsoft came to the plate talking about graphics and power of the system and lead everyone to believe it was the most powerful system period. In doing so, when Nintendo didn't comment about such things it looked weak. In reality Nintendo just didn't care about graphical numbers...but actual games. The problem was the Gamecube was exactly the same as an X-box gameplay wise, with less graphics. So that hurt Nintendo.
The Wii is a completely new way to play games. It competes with Xbox 360 and PS3, but in a completely different way. It isn't about which is more powerful like last generation. It is competiting on gameplay difference. Price relations will have nothing to do with what people buy. If someone wants to play Wii type games they will buy a Wii...if they don't then they will choose either Xbox 360 or PS3...and that battle price will be a factor.
That being said...a lower price will help Wii with casual gamers, and nongamers.
If you are not already a gamer ,or any hobbist for that matter, how much money are willing to spend on something you had a little fun with? I played a game of Disc Golf with my friend, and I enjoyed the game. So I decided to buy some discs. They were pretty cheap, and I ended up buying a single disc for $10.00 After I got into the game, I spent about $50.00 to get a few really nice discs to play. However, if the game cost $25.00 a single disc or more, I would have never committed to the game.
I also went and played a game of Golf with a friend. I loved it more than Disc Golf, however because of the extreme price point to get into the game...and even just to play a round of Golf, I will never play golf.
Finally, the best analogy is those collectable card games, or collectable table top games. I have played those games and really enjoyed them. But overall they are too expensive to support. It costs easily over $100.00 an expansion set to collect every figure...and that is just too much money.
So the question is...at what price point do you get casual people that try the Wii at a friends house or in the store to actually buy it. Simple truth is the cheaper it is...the more likely they will buy.
$100.00 will see greater number of people buying than at $150.00 and so on...
I hope the system is $150-$199 However, if it is more...then I want more out of the system. $200-250 we should be getting 2 controllers and some free downloads, or at least a pack in game. Again it is all about preceived value.
Post by: IceCold on May 17, 2006, 02:30:33 PM
QuoteI think that there will be a graduated price system, as Iwata (?) mentioned earlier. There's no doubt that the games with lower production values will carry a budget price, while the traditional games that are expensive to produce will be around the price they are now. I expect the MSRP of these games to be cheaper than those on the 360/PS3, though..
Wii Sports is a good example, I'll be surprised if Nintendo launches that at the same price as Twighlight Princess and Metroid Prime 3. Still, how much cheaper will it be, and will we ever see traditional games at a cheaper price? Without waiting for the Player's Choice versions?
Post by: Louieturkey on May 17, 2006, 03:01:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: getter77Wandering: You are probably right. Still, it can only help the odds that a game/gaming will look appealing enough for a person to try if the cost of INITIATION is set low enough to tempt CURIOUSITY. As it is now, and has been for awhile, you have to set down a hefty chunk of change just to get your feet wet. With any addictive product, rule number 1 is to get people hooked on the cheap...that way the little voice in their head that speaks to monetary issuesbased moreso on necessities gets just quiet enough. Nintendo was the one spouting all the "new" not "next" generation stuff so they should follow through on it and bring gaming prices down to a level that many more people can have a chance to appreciate. Unless there is some sort of insane technology hop in the next 5/6 years, Nintendo's next console, the HD one, will probably follow the same sort spec boost pattern that the Wii has---due to the point of diminishing returns. Just like a PS4 might well be $800 next time around.
All IMO. Nintendo is enjoying a brisk stroll while inexorably walking towards the edge of a cliff...all the while pondering how best to handle that looming situation. Sony and Microsoft are both inexorably sprinting full tilt, head to head with each other. They figure they'll just figure something AWESOME out right before going over the edge.
Well, I don't expect non-gamers to just jump into this arena without having played the thing at a friend's house first. So the cost of the system really doesn't matter until the second year. It will be near impossible, regardless of price, to get non-gamers to buy the system, even if they play it for a couple minutes at a kiosk in Target. It just won't happen. Nintendo is betting on guerilla marketing from its loyal fans. The fans will buy the system at launch no matter what the cost(though over $250 will definitely be pushing it). Nintendo wants these people to invite their non-gamer friends over to play the Wii with them and maybe the non-gamer friends will like it so much, they will want to go out and buy the system. I don't see any of this coming to fruition while the system shortages happen after launch and a few months into 07. I see Ninteno dropping the price of the system by the end of 07 when more non-gamers will have tried the system, Nintendo will have more Brain Age/non-gamer games out to entice the non-gamers into wanting the system more, and the "Highly Advertised" price drop will get them to run to their Target or Walmart to buy the system at this point.
Non-gamers will NOT be the target at launch. It will fail until more gamers can introduce the system to non-gamers. It's like Nintendo says, you have to play it to understand and want it. They won't play it until a friend asks them to try it out in their home.
Post by: getter77 on May 17, 2006, 06:02:16 PM
Post by: wandering on May 17, 2006, 06:25:18 PM
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Originally posted by: Louieturkey
Non-gamers will NOT be the target at launch. It will fail until more gamers can introduce the system to non-gamers. It's like Nintendo says, you have to play it to understand and want it. They won't play it until a friend asks them to try it out in their home.
Yeah, I agree with this.
Also, getter77, you talk about how the Wii might be cheap compared to the competition but expensive objectively. Don't really think that's true. For one thing, non-gamers will know how the system compares to other systems and know they're getting a bargain. For another thing, have you seen how much cell-phones and ipods cost?
Post by: getter77 on May 18, 2006, 05:56:42 AM
There are surely more people in the world that aren't gamers that also aren't terribly well off. You CAN'T get the PS3 if you are not decently off or steal it. Nintendo seems to be positing that they'll make quality videogame entertainment more affordable than the standard...and the standard has been around 200. If they screw up and charge 300 for the thing though just so that can say "hey, we're hald the price of that PS3 that we kept saying we didn't care about and weren't competing with!"...then it'll lower the total number of possible sales both in the short terms and the long term as console discounting takes awhile.
Post by: clevelandst124 on May 18, 2006, 03:18:11 PM
So if they sell 20 million at the old price = $25 x 20M = $500M
And if they sell 8 million at the new price = $75 x 8M = $600M
In business it often times pays to sell less. And ultimately the wii succeeds if the movement system catches on, not based on price. So I think $250-300 is what we'll see at launch. Which pains me because I wanted to go ultra crazy on the virtual console.
And no way the controllers launch less than $40. It matches the competition which is fine for an accessory. The people that will buy 4 controllers are the ones that line up at launch. Not the people waiting for the price to come down. And the gamecube controller launched at $35.
Post by: Jin-X on May 18, 2006, 03:47:16 PM
Post by: getter77 on May 18, 2006, 03:59:11 PM
Those 20 million and 8 million you posit are spot on...if this were the GC. Remember, all those people would be the typical Nintendo gamer (there are millions of them) and multi-platform people...likely NOT all the non-gamers or retired gamers...they are the great X factor.
The movement system is only HALF of the drive for anybody other than the pre-destined sales that Nintendo is already expecting. Price is the other one, hence all their little messages about it being mass-market, "more affordable", etc ad infinitum. Nintendo is aiming to surpass the first videogame console in terms of growth here....likely because the ever increasing price amid the rest of their "competitors" is SHRINKING the growth of the industry....unless all those people have like 5 kids and make it a generational thing like alcoholism or something. The rising price of doing "the usual business' could KILL the industry in the near future....see my point about the cliff from earlier.
I'd be dismayed if the controllers were that expensve. They simply have to make those controllers very affordable...else the whole "Wii game together" bit will be left hollow and impotent. The console is the price of admission to gaming period...controllers are the price of admission to social gaming in terms of new-comers and the returning retired.
Post by: Ceric on May 18, 2006, 05:30:19 PM
Post by: vudu on May 19, 2006, 09:24:53 AM
QuoteYour argument makes sense if Nintendo (and Microsoft and Sony) made the majority of their money from selling hardware. However, since they make much more money selling software. So it makes much more sense to sell your console at a lower price and increase your userbase.
Originally posted by: clevelandst124
In business it often times pays to sell less. And ultimately the wii succeeds if the movement system catches on, not based on price. So I think $250-300 is what we'll see at launch. Which pains me because I wanted to go ultra crazy on the virtual console.
Post by: clevelandst124 on May 19, 2006, 04:39:32 PM
My argument wasn't 100% sound I just think Nintendo has proven that money drives them in the past. Remember that worthless $20 memory card on the gamecube? Yeah we have the cheapest system but we nickle and dime you on all the accessories. That's why I think it's a dream to see controllers cheaper than $40. Bottom line they are more expensive to produce than the 360 controllers which are wireless xbox 1 controllers. And Nintendo sees them as a greater value as well. I wouldn't be too shocked to see $50 for the controller/nunchuck. And I seriously doubt a bundle is coming from Nintendo.
We all think price will bring in the non-gamers. That's absolutely untrue. Nintendo isn't starting a welfare program for homeless people. Look at the gamecube. The deal last Christmas was a gamecube, 2 controllers, and a game for $99. That's an incredible deal. What happened? The gamecube outsells the xbox because everyone is trying to find the xbox 360. Non-gamer doesn't mean finding the people that think gaming is too expensive. It means creating a medium that will drive new individuals to a unique system that weren't interested before. They are looking for the people that buy thousand dollar computers, Hundred dollar cell phones, thousand dollar tv's and sound systems. They aren't marketing the product for someone who has trouble paying the bills. Food or games. Tough choice (sarcasm).
So it sucks. But I've already convinced myself that I'll drop $450 on the revolution at launch(includes games). It sucks but they are in the business of making money and they've already sold me on the features.
Post by: wandering on May 20, 2006, 12:59:56 AM
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They are looking for the people that buy...thousand dollar tv's
Well. I don't know about that one....
Post by: getter77 on May 20, 2006, 05:37:07 AM
Nintendo will hopefuly learn from the nickel an dime accessories on the GC...I agree with that. But Nintendo doesn't want people so much with thousand dollar TV's...those are the HD folk that are PS3/360 core tha'll pretty much get a Wii by default just for something different..and hopefully on the cheap.
You don't have to run a "welfare" program to do well in business...especailly GLOBAL business. All you have to do is not go overboard with more tahn is sensible considering the nature of the industry..and that is hopefully what Nintendo does.
