Post by: willie1234 on May 09, 2006, 04:41:43 PM
Link1
Link2
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on May 09, 2006, 05:05:01 PM
Post by: blackfootsteps on May 09, 2006, 05:05:21 PM
Post by: Jensen on May 09, 2006, 05:11:23 PM
(just read the article, and that's what Matt says in his last line)
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on May 09, 2006, 05:13:05 PM
Post by: blackfootsteps on May 09, 2006, 05:16:15 PM
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Originally posted by: Avinash_Tyagi
Well lets see last time Nintendo showed too much, Sony made a half-assed ripoff (true they were working on it for years, but they only added it after they saw the Wiimote), why should Nintendo show too much and have their competitors try and undercut them? This way they maintain the upper hand until its too late for their competitors to counter.
That's the thing, I don't really care what Sony does. I don't really think that a bit of extra game footage would hurt. Seeing that contest winner on stage with Miyamoto was my favourite moment of the conference. More things like that would have been fantastic to watch.
Post by: The Omen on May 09, 2006, 05:17:19 PM
Take this as a grain of salt from two people who knew some of these surprises for weeks, and needed more.
Post by: Renny on May 09, 2006, 05:23:39 PM
Post by: trip1eX on May 09, 2006, 05:32:33 PM
Post by: thepoga on May 09, 2006, 05:35:40 PM
Post by: The Omen on May 09, 2006, 05:43:40 PM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on May 09, 2006, 05:49:47 PM
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Originally posted by: thepoga
Yeah, but what has been said by Nintendo the last several months? "You'll know everything at E3" Or something along those lines. They could've detailed some of the OTHER important things like price, date (the lack of an exact date is worrying me), and the online service's interface. This is the best opportunity to announce these types of things.
No, TGS is the best place to do it.
Post by: ThePerm on May 09, 2006, 05:51:36 PM
1. They only showed a few third party games.
2 the only game that looked good was red steel
3 they only showed a few first party games
if the system is coming out this year. They just need to do more.
where are the games?
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on May 09, 2006, 05:53:27 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 09, 2006, 05:59:48 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 09, 2006, 06:11:08 PM
Although I disagree with them about the graphics as...
1. When the XBOX 360 was released a lot of it's titles were basic looking
2. The Wii games have at least six months to be updated
And the shell was actually announced, it just that Nintendo didn't mention it.
Post by: jasonditz on May 09, 2006, 06:26:18 PM
Post by: JoeSmashBro on May 09, 2006, 06:27:29 PM
Post by: Frozen Atlantic on May 09, 2006, 06:29:45 PM
They may wait to reveal more through actual gameplay.
I'm starting to sound like Bill. :/
Post by: Magik on May 09, 2006, 06:31:23 PM
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Originally posted by: Avinash_Tyagi
The IGN guys are annoying, they complain becuse the graphics aren't "next gen" and Nintendo didn't mention everything they wanted to hear, hello they aren't there to cater to your every whim Casamassina (you too Bozon).
Considering we were told time and time again from Nintendo and practically everybody else that E3 was going to answer all the questions, IGN's complaints were valid.
Nintendo missed a big opportunity to really let the general public, the group Nintendo is trying to go after, know all there is to know about the Wii. E3 is pretty much the only gaming related event that the mainstream media outlets such as CNN ever cover in depth. TGS? When was the last time a mainstream media outlet ever talked about news about TGS and broadcasted them on television?
With Sony caving in and releasing actual prices and the reaction they got for it, Nintendo could have really stuck it to Sony and won over the jaded crowd, cause there are a lot, since we know that it is at least cheaper than a 360.
Their presentation was great, but it could have been even better if they released some more information.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 09, 2006, 06:37:09 PM
I don't care about the price until I buy it. I mean, we know it's going to be less than 300 dollars. So what does it matter, now, beyond that?
My only concern with the VC: what games will be available. That's also already clear.
My interest lies in the games. So I'm thrilled, and can't wait until stuff starts coming in over the next few days.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on May 09, 2006, 06:42:05 PM
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Originally posted by: MagikQuote
Originally posted by: Avinash_Tyagi
The IGN guys are annoying, they complain becuse the graphics aren't "next gen" and Nintendo didn't mention everything they wanted to hear, hello they aren't there to cater to your every whim Casamassina (you too Bozon).
Considering we were told time and time again from Nintendo and practically everybody else that E3 was going to answer all the questions, IGN's complaints were valid.
Nintendo missed a big opportunity to really let the general public, the group Nintendo is trying to go after, know all there is to know about the Wii. E3 is pretty much the only gaming related event that the mainstream media outlets such as CNN ever cover in depth. TGS? When was the last time a mainstream media outlet ever talked about news about TGS and broadcasted them on television?
With Sony caving in and releasing actual prices and the reaction they got for it, Nintendo could have really stuck it to Sony and won over the jaded crowd, cause there are a lot, since we know that it is at least cheaper than a 360.
Their presentation was great, but it could have been even better if they released some more information.
Actually during the presentation Reggie said he wasn't going to answer all of our questions today.
And actually last TGS everyone talked about
Post by: jasonditz on May 09, 2006, 06:45:41 PM
If this is essentially a souped up Gamecube, as IGN has suggested in the past, $299.99 would be a bit pricey, IMO (unless they bundle Wii Sports and a second wiimote with it or something). The difference between $199 and $299 is a significant one.
VC costs are a big factor too... if the VC is charging $10 a title or something, that's an important thing to know. Did you guys see what Sony was charging for some of the stuff they showed for Sony Live? $7 for a downloadable "level" of a game? I mean, I guess anyone who's spending $600 on a system has no concept of the value of money, but even so.
They did just enough to convince me to not buy a 360... but not enough to convince me to preorder a Wii... I need a lot more info.
Post by: ThePerm on May 09, 2006, 06:58:02 PM
Post by: The Omen on May 09, 2006, 07:04:28 PM
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I think we're all forgetting tomorrow still exists. There's bound to be interviews and info exchanged behind closed doors, and we're definitely going to hear more than we have now. I'm not saying everything, but more.
Post by: Fro on May 09, 2006, 07:07:57 PM
Post by: couchmonkey on May 09, 2006, 07:19:00 PM
The game footage looked great. The graphics were not that impressive, but that doesn't matter because the games look FUN, and Nintendo showed how they would work with the remote. Sony's demos were flat-out boring, and Microsoft's footage looked like...well, Xbox. Same old games. Viva Pinata was the only title for the 360 that looked really different. (Too Human and 99 Nights get honourary mention for only looking 85% like typical Xbox games).
I felt Nintendo really only had to do one thing at the press conference: show how the games work. They did it with Zelda and Red Steel, and they look like fun. Lots of fun! The press can play the other 25 games to their heart's content tomorrow through Friday, and tell us all about it. After all, that's why they're invited to E3.
Edit: added that Nintendo is demonstrating 27 games this week, way more than GameCube, DS, or (I think) Xbox 360 in their launch years.
Post by: jasonditz on May 09, 2006, 07:27:50 PM
Post by: wandering on May 09, 2006, 07:36:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Magik
Nintendo missed a big opportunity to really let the general public, the group Nintendo is trying to go after, know all there is to know about the Wii. E3 is pretty much the only gaming related event that the mainstream media outlets such as CNN ever cover in depth. TGS? When was the last time a mainstream media outlet ever talked about news about TGS and broadcasted them on television?
With Sony caving in and releasing actual prices and the reaction they got for it, Nintendo could have really stuck it to Sony and won over the jaded crowd, cause there are a lot, since we know that it is at least cheaper than a 360.
Their presentation was great, but it could have been even better if they released some more information.
I think you're confusing what would be strategically good for Nintendo with what you personally want. Revealing the price too early just wouldn't be a very good move...there's no need to 'stick it' to sony, they've already done that to themselves.
Anyway. I never really bought into all the hype about a giant final secret being revealed. All I wanted was game footage, I got it, and I was blown away.
Post by: willie1234 on May 09, 2006, 07:44:53 PM
I'm surprised at all the angst here. Who cares what the price is, it is almost certanly either 199 or 249, both of which are perfectly reasonable given a modest hardware upgrade, wifi and a hugely complex and likely expensive controller.
The conference blew me away. The energy in the crowd and onstage was great, the gameplay demos were great, and the tenis game at the end was a lot of fun. Nintendo is absolutely right to hold on to a few cards, both to keep the hype going, and also to give them some wiggle room should Sony or MS change course last minute.
What the whiners on e3 are missing, and I think people here are too, is that the main point that Nintendo delivered on in spades is their continued dedication to excellent games. Just look at the boards from the last few months to see that this was absolutely in doubt, with people worried about a cheapening of Metroid, Zelda and a focus on non-games. Nintendo showed us that they were dead serious about the kind of 4 star game quality we've come to expect from it's flagship hardware, but this time with the energy and innovation that comes from a new control scheme.
If they can pull off metroid, zelda and mario by christmas 2006 then I think they'll be #1 in 2006/2007.
ps - in contrast, Sony showed us their dedication to nothing but frills and hardware horsepower. Other than the tilt control, we saw nothing innovative in the games at all. And even the tilt control did not inovate in the game _play_, just how the controller was used. A joystick already can move a plane in the same manner.
Post by: denjet78 on May 10, 2006, 02:14:06 AM
And I'm completely fine with critiquing Nintendo. I mean, if no one says anything bad, they'll never know what they need to change. However I'm completely astounded by the lack of feedback on Sony's conference. I have seen absolutely no negativity in regards to anything that they announced, including the rediculous price. And the worst of all, everyone is saying how smart Sony was for throwing gyroscopic control into the PS3 controller. And a lot of these were the same people who, just the day before, were still bashing Nintendo for using it in the first place.
How can these people call themselves journalists when they have absolutely ZERO credibility?
Without feedback we end up with the Duel Shock controller for 10 years. Including this next generation, that's going to be 15 years! My god... 15 years with the SAME crappy user interface? Am I the only one out there that can say "stunted"?
Post by: ruby_onix on May 10, 2006, 02:25:36 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 10, 2006, 02:28:38 AM
Post by: Dryden on May 10, 2006, 02:51:17 AM
So? IGN's writers are consumers too. Even if they can take that bias out of their reporting, they still serve other consumers with their info. Consumers want to know launch dates and pricing. So does IGN. I don't think they panned the conference at all. They simply pointed out the missing info.
Post by: denjet78 on May 10, 2006, 03:15:23 AM
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Originally posted by: Dryden
These people are journalists.
I have more than a few problems with this statement.
Post by: Ceric on May 10, 2006, 04:15:22 AM
The problem with this whole thing is what Nintendo left out isn't really that great for speculation. I mean for me that's half the fun of the next console. Speculating with everyone. What was the big secret? Missing. I know.
There were little secrets. I mean putting a speaker in the controller has some potential but in the end seems like the most sparkling innovationy thing in the controller. But it was glanced over. The most exciting newish, "read not officially announced", thing about the controller was the Nunchuku sensor. But it too was glanced over. Confirmation of Rumble would have been nice too. But it wasn't mentioned. (It's on the Tech Sheet)
I mean Nintendo's being just a big tease. You can only tease someone so far. If the keep teasing it will be like calling wolf. No one will care when its actually something worth a good amount of attention. 6 months until release. Unless it has something to do with a camera, Sony can't do another total retool. The fact is we probably see the controller they showed as an accessory later on if the Batarang had acceptance.
I mean everything in the conference was pretty much, "glanced over". Nintendo most have had everyone practice there parts alot. Because if you look, beside Miyamota and Iwata, they have the same hand gestures and measured paced. That doesn't happen naturally. While I'm griping why didn't they have it end with Iwata conducting again and going to the logo with a catch phrase?
Edit: Did anybody else notice that the "incased in glass" look was in most of the more notable footage? (MP3 (Samus), Red Steel(Just about Everyone), Mario Galaxy (Mario in the PGC Screen Shot))
Edit2: Going solely on the Pre-E3 conference I agree with Bozon.
Post by: Nick DiMola on May 10, 2006, 04:30:07 AM
On another note, I hate video game journalists. It's like a big joke. They were the journalists who weren't good enough to hack it in the real world and ended up in games. There is no professionalism, there is no stripping of bias, and as a result, there is a significant impact in the market. People trust these people with their money and that is a very big thing. What winds up happening is these jackasses spout off their completely ridiculous opinions and they are carried into the minds of the people they preach to. I actually come to this board for my news and reviews. I trust all of your opinions and news more than I trust any single gaming site out there. I wish there was some way to legitimize game journalism. I thought G4 had the potential when it started, but they turned out worse than anyone else.
Post by: couchmonkey on May 10, 2006, 05:55:58 AM
I admit, ballpark prices for the virtual console games would be nice and it's probably not a huge part of the strategy for Nintendo. For me, it doesn't matter, I'm buying the system for the new games, the virtual console is just a bonus.
Post by: jasonditz on May 10, 2006, 07:33:54 AM
I enjoyed the conference... and I agree that it was way better than Sony's. But so what? That's like saying I'm a better basketball player than the retarded kid with all the clumps of hair sticking out of his helmet. Doesn't make me a great player.
Nintendo did well with what they did provide at the conference, but when the end rolled around and all my major questions were still unanswered... I became instantly dissatisfied. At least Sony told us enough that I was able to dismiss it out of hand.
Post by: willie1234 on May 10, 2006, 07:40:01 AM
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I became instantly dissatisfied. At least Sony told us enough that I was able to dismiss it out of hand.
hah, you don't think that's why they rarely/never spill all the beans at once?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 10, 2006, 08:19:31 AM
Post by: ruby_onix on May 10, 2006, 01:51:55 PM
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I really enjoyed the conference on a whole. As others have said, I think my expectations were a bit different. I wanted to see games and I wanted to see them played with the controller.
That's the job of the show floor (and with 27 playable games, they're doing a damn good job of it). Not the pre-show press conference.
Nintendo is lucky to have beaten Sony and MS, in the eyes of Nintendo fans (their usual E3 score). Because Sony and MS came in to the show with nothing much to speak of (a cobbled-together PS3 and the ever-obvious Halo 3), while Nintendo came in with everything. They should have dominated. But no, they want to "tease" us some more, and "give us a taste" even though we already had a pretty good idea what this tasted like, because these oversecretive bastards have been telling us to "wait for E3" since before the last E3, and the console is most likely launching in less than six months.
Oh no! Sony stole the Revmote functionality? Big deal. Delays won't stop that. The N64 launched a year after the PSX, but that didn't stop Sony from stealing analog. Should Nintendo delay the Wii for another year, only to watch the remote get stolen anyways? What would be the point? That's the problem with Nintendo's lack of competition. They can run away. Go chart some new blue ocean, kick back and make it look so easy and profitable, and someone will inevitably come along, put up more of a fight, and take a bite out of them. You can't hide from that under a veil of secrecy.
I would imagine that we didn't hear Nintendo's price because of Sony's $600 announcement. Nintendo was probably all set for Sony to come in with something like an extremely agressive $300, at which point the'd go with something like $150. But since Sony's gone a lot higher, they're wondering how high they can go. $250? $300? They shouldn't have to worry about price drops from MS for now, thanks to Sony's announcement. Yeah, that sucks. But my bigger (well, more immediate) problem with that train of thought is that Nintendo is supposed to go into E3 with contingency plans. $600 isn't off the scale of predictability, so Nintendo should've had their prepared response ready at a moment's notice.
Also there's the fact that Nintendo's not taking advantage of Sony's timing. Sony said $600 and we all had a good laugh. Then we all turned to Nintendo, expecting to repeat the joke in a more official manner. All Nintendo had to do was say something in a "low two" and we'd all be laughing at Sony again. But then Nintendo goes and says "Price doesn't matter." WTF? Not only did that just kill the joke, but now we have to wonder if the joke's really on Nintendo.
