Post by: wandering on May 08, 2006, 04:05:05 PM
Still looks good, though.
Post by: Requiem on May 08, 2006, 04:55:26 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 08, 2006, 05:09:33 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 08, 2006, 05:16:20 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 08, 2006, 06:24:54 PM
Seriously, just because it now has Dragons and amazing graphics, doesn't mean it will be anything different than the same old, same old they already released in this genre.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 08, 2006, 06:25:57 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 06:41:37 PM
Then I remember that not only I have to pay $500 (seriously LOL), I have to use the disgusting, anti ergonomic, with badly placed analog sticks with no indentations, and also a bastardized snes rip off known as the ps controller made in hell, without proper dpad may I add. So I can skip it, I can always watch the videos, they look gorgeous.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 09, 2006, 09:36:41 AM
To take Star Wars out of it means you are taking the central cool element of the games out.
Post by: wandering on May 17, 2006, 12:07:18 AM
Quote
To take Star Wars out of it means you are taking the central cool element of the games out.
What, dragons aren't cool?
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 17, 2006, 12:19:31 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2006, 09:10:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I have a feeling that if this game was on the Wii you all would be drooling all over it. But because Factor 5 left they suck now so the game's no good.
Don't you use this excuse with Silicon Knights and Rare, too? I got Rogue Squadron II because I'm a Star Wars fan, but got so sick of the gameplay I ended up selling it...It's seemed (to me) that Factor 5 concentrates on graphics first, gameplay later...
Post by: nitsu niflheim on May 17, 2006, 09:56:27 AM
I got KotOR by Bioware and that was pretty good, but I got distracted and kind of forgot about it. I guess I should get back to it later.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 17, 2006, 11:34:49 AM
Yes, because I think it applies there too. No one ever said anything bad about these companies until they left Nintendo and then immediately afterwards all these negatives that no one seemed to notice before came up. All three companies were praised when they were with Nintendo and all three started getting bashed right after they left. It seems rather coincidental for that exact scenario to happen three times.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on May 17, 2006, 11:38:46 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 17, 2006, 12:25:31 PM
Or maybe it's not coincidental and Nintendo really helps bring out the magic in their second parties. I see what you're saying but to my mind, as objectively as I can see, it seems like their games aren't as interesting as they used to be.
I'd love to be proven wrong with Too Human at least, since I'll probably be buying an Xbox 360 for that game if it's good.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2006, 12:58:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Yes, because I think it applies there too. No one ever said anything bad about these companies until they left Nintendo and then immediately afterwards all these negatives that no one seemed to notice before came up. All three companies were praised when they were with Nintendo and all three started getting bashed right after they left. It seems rather coincidental for that exact scenario to happen three times.
I made many negative comments on Eternal Darkness back when people were playing it, and I keep hoping Rare will go back to making great games...I have both Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero and was so disappointed with both efforts... =\
Post by: WesDawg on May 17, 2006, 01:07:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Don't you use this excuse with Silicon Knights and Rare, too?"
Yes, because I think it applies there too. No one ever said anything bad about these companies until they left Nintendo and then immediately afterwards all these negatives that no one seemed to notice before came up. All three companies were praised when they were with Nintendo and all three started getting bashed right after they left. It seems rather coincidental for that exact scenario to happen three times.
Including reviewers. SK was getting ripped up before they left Nintendo, although ED was well received. MGS:TTS wasn't loved though. And Rare's game quality slipped starting with Star Fox. I really think you can make a fine case for Rare just not being what they used to be anymore. I don't think its that Nintendo left them. It's that everyone great they had on staff left. Same here I think. F5 got horrible reviews on Rogue Squadron III. People stopped loving them even before they joined Sony.
Wasn't this E3 footage the same stuff they showed at CES? I don't get why people are excited about it all the sudden.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 17, 2006, 01:44:37 PM
They made two great first person shooters...and that is all.
Banjo was a joke, and really did not do anything new or special for the 3D platformer
Blast Corps was annoying difficult, and the control was terrible.
Conkers was a very funny game, but had very flawed gameplay elements that annoyed the crap out of me. I finished the game, and was relieved never to play the game again (except for the Matrix level, which I thought was kickass.)
Silicon Knights isn't even overrated like Rare. I still say they are completely a question mark and still a blank slate to form an opinion. Their recent games just haven't proved themselves to be completely competent.
Eternal Darkness was supposed to be harolded as having a great story, sucked. The story was boring, and hard to follow. The gameplay was standard hack and slash throughout the game, with very little depth in design.
Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes...This may not have been their fault, because they were restricted by following another game, but it felt old, unpolished, and the new game mechanics, didn't make the game better, but worse. Don't take level design that wasn't polished for 1st person play and add that in. The game should have had redesigned levels with the same bosses, and really created something like the Resident Evil game remake.
Now, back to Factor 5.
They have been creating the same exact game since the N64 days. And their last attempt to branch out from that sucked, because control and play was horrible. Now we are getting a pretty version of said game we have played already 4 times, and people are completely excited about it. No thank you.
And before you say Nintendo sequels are the same. They aren't. They take the same game mechanics and add to them, polish them, and create brand new experiences with them. A great example of this is New Super Mario Brothers. It feels completely classic, and completely fresh and new at the same time, because of the amazing level design and new game mechanics added.
Post by: IceCold on May 17, 2006, 02:58:00 PM
QuoteI'd say quite a bit earlier than that..
Rare's game quality slipped starting with Star Fox.
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 17, 2006, 03:24:07 PM
And we've got a new DKR coming to DS, so I'm happy. Rare didn't do much for me. I don't even like Perfect Dark.SK really is overrated. Eternal Darkness was okay, I guess. At first I really loved it, but then towards the end I got REALLY bored and I haven't bothered beating it yet. Completely worth the $20 though, and hey, good voice acting in a video game =o Twin Snakes? Who cares. I did think they had potential, but after seeing the "progress" on Too Human, I'm completely uninterested. It looked pretty terrible.
Factor 5? Forget it. They completely sucked, I haven't enjoyed anything by them.
(I like how any thread about any of these three companies turns into a "why they sucked" thread)
Post by: wandering on May 17, 2006, 06:07:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Don't you use this excuse with Silicon Knights and Rare, too?"
Yes, because I think it applies there too. No one ever said anything bad about these companies until they left Nintendo and then immediately afterwards all these negatives that no one seemed to notice before came up. All three companies were praised when they were with Nintendo and all three started getting bashed right after they left. It seems rather coincidental for that exact scenario to happen three times.
Yeah, I'll have to agree on this one. It's not that the complaints against Factor 5 and Silicon Knights aren't valid (let's pretend Rare doesn't exist for a second)...it's just that I think people are latching onto negatives, instead of positives, because they're no longer supporting Nintendo.
Do you people seriously think that most people on this board wouldn't be frothing, if Factor 5 were developing a launch game for the Wii where you control a DRAGON?
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2006, 06:20:56 PM
Okay, I'm done bashing Factor 5.......for now...
I think it's pretty short-sighted on Ian's and your own part if you think I wouldn't buy a good game by SK or Rare just because it's on a non-Nintendo system, ESPECIALLY when I own a 360 (and likely a PS3 if the price is ever dropped a couple hundred bucks)...What could I possibly gain by missing out on a good game? Nothing, so when I say I'm not pleased with a game by any of these developers it's because said game looks lackluster to me, not because of fanboyism...
Post by: Arbok on May 17, 2006, 06:27:08 PM
Post by: Kairon on May 17, 2006, 06:30:23 PM
And also, it's a dangerous thing in the subconscious fanboy wars to focus on the negatives, sorta like groupthink. But now that we have the dual advantages of hindsight and (a little more) impartiality, I can freely admit that I hated DKR and BK (though I loved Conker's BFD), that Rogue Squadron III was the first Nintendo-branded game I ever considered selling back (I ended up loaning it to a friend and adamantly proclaiming that he could "keep it") and that even though I played through all three storylines of ED and enjoyed the lore, it really was lacking in the gameplay department.
On that note, I'm also an ex-Blizzard Fanboy. I recently quit WoW because one day I woke up and realized that Blizzard had developed themselves into a corner and would no longer be the people to show me anything new and exciting. (And just in time too, because the new Alliance race looks KA-st00pid)
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on May 17, 2006, 06:35:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
I'm sick of people turning on SK, you can bitch about Rare all you want as their best days appear to be well behind them... but to see people turn on Factor 5 too is even more depressing. Did they have a huge number of good games to their name? No, they had about a 50% ratio. For every Rogue Leader, there was a Battle for Naboo... But their good games weren't simply good, they were fantastic. I'm very sad that we won't see them on the Wii, and I do very much hope they decide to support the system later.
I'll have to disagree. You look at the basic gameplay of the Rogue Leader series and it's very simple. This simple and straightforward gameplay was made exciting by the franchise and the good execution of these games. With RS3 we can see what happens when you strip away the benefit of a "good execution." Let's hope they can get Lair to RS2 levels of finesse because they are without the Star Wars license for that game.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on May 17, 2006, 06:46:41 PM
Quote
For every Rogue Leader, there was a Battle for Naboo... But their good games weren't simply good, they were fantastic. I'm very sad that we won't see them on the Wii, and I do very much hope they decide to support the system later.
I liked Battle For Naboo...
Anyway. I suppose Bill is right, one shouldn't speak for why other people support or don't support something. I'll just say that there's no reason for me, personally, to feel that Lair won't be extremely excellent. And no reason for me to think Silicon Knights isn't a very talented developer, and hope Too Human is really good.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 18, 2006, 04:02:49 AM
No idea what this game is. Apparently there was a link that was removed, and I'm too uninterested to investigate.
Post by: couchmonkey on May 18, 2006, 06:06:49 AM
Point is, I do get a "hang the traitors!" vibe when it comes to Nintendo fans.
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 18, 2006, 06:19:11 AM
Post by: Kairon on May 18, 2006, 07:24:27 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on May 18, 2006, 10:54:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: wanderingQuote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Don't you use this excuse with Silicon Knights and Rare, too?"
Yes, because I think it applies there too. No one ever said anything bad about these companies until they left Nintendo and then immediately afterwards all these negatives that no one seemed to notice before came up. All three companies were praised when they were with Nintendo and all three started getting bashed right after they left. It seems rather coincidental for that exact scenario to happen three times.
Yeah, I'll have to agree on this one. It's not that the complaints against Factor 5 and Silicon Knights aren't valid (let's pretend Rare doesn't exist for a second)...it's just that I think people are latching onto negatives, instead of positives, because they're no longer supporting Nintendo.
Do you people seriously think that most people on this board wouldn't be frothing, if Factor 5 were developing a launch game for the Wii where you control a DRAGON?
I definitely would. Then again, that's because of the Wiimote. So I guess my answer is: maybe with a question mark?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 18, 2006, 01:48:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
You don't want me to get started on Ubisoft.
Allow me to be your tag-team partner.
Post by: Frozen Atlantic on May 19, 2006, 07:48:57 AM
Rare is Rare, of course.
Post by: vudu on May 19, 2006, 09:20:57 AM
QuoteUbisoft rocks. I love it how they don't make me read crappy words during cut scenes and in game speech. Makes it more realistic.
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
You don't want me to get started on Ubisoft.
Post by: wandering on September 28, 2006, 10:22:56 AM
He doesn't deny the possibility of them working on a Wii game in the future - in fact, he has nothing but good things to say about the Wii. He says they're platform independent, but feel every game needs to be platform exclusive. Lair couldn't be done on the Xbox (without huge sacrifices) because the game relies so heavily on the cell and ps3's motion controller.
The use of motion control in the game sounds pretty good, btw. He says he's been wanting motion control sense the n64 days. He mentions that apparently the Cube was originally going to feature it, and that he begged Sony to put it into the PS3 controller.
He also gives a nice quote about games needing to become less simplistic in terms of morals and themes:
"You can gun down hundreds of soldiers in virtual battlefields, but none of those games ever even tries to make you think about what you are doing and maybe second-guess your choices. Movies give you the multi-layered part, sometimes pretentious, sometimes too simplified, but at least they try. Games need to get to that and we certainly try."
Post by: Ceric on September 28, 2006, 10:56:19 AM
Post by: capamerica on September 28, 2006, 11:20:08 AM
I've stated my opinion on Rare in the 'X06 News' topic so I'll sum it up. Never cared much for Rare when they were part of Nintendo, Opinion hasn't changed at all now that their with Microsoft. I'm happy Nintendo drop kicked that money pit to the side of the road along with the other trash.
Now for Silicon Knights. I'm sad that Nintendo and them parted ways. I enjoyed Eternal Darkness even thou I got pissed off with the third from last chracter. And Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snake was a great remake. I was really looking forward to Too Human for the GameCube/Revolution so I was disapointed to hear that it was moved to the Xbox360. But thats not going to stop me from playing it. I still like Silicon Knights and will continue to play their games.
Post by: Ian Sane on September 28, 2006, 11:28:56 AM
What? I don't like Rebel Strike much either but the problem certainly wasn't that it was the same game. In fact they tried a lot of new stuff, it's just unfortunate that the new stuff pretty much universally sucked. Strip out the crap and yeah you're pretty much just left with a few new Rogue Leader levels and multiplayer modes of the previous games levels. I guess you are right in that they haven't proved they can do anything different because the different stuff they tried didn't turn out too well.
I still think Factor 5 is talented though and Nintendo is worse off not having their exclusive support anymore.
Post by: Kairon on September 28, 2006, 11:36:09 AM
They remind me of Rare in that respect: they're really skilled guys when it comes to maxxing out hardware. In that sense, they're a great asset any time launch comes around.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: WuTangTurtle on September 28, 2006, 12:13:54 PM
I too loved Rogue Leader 2 but hated 3, mainly due to the on foot levels and many unpolished features. With SK i liked ED only cause the premise of the game was very different, but even then i thought the game was a bit lacking. I have no ill words to say about SK but for Rare that is a whole other thing.
Due to the major staff leaving Rare has stumbled down the entire stair case. They have completly dropped the ball on major franchises and untill they can recoup that's all I have to say about them. What people need to realize is that when most of the Rare staff left, Rare basically became a noob Developer.
Also everyone forgets about Left Field Productions, creators of Kobe Bryant's NBA courtside games. Okay so they weren't that great but the 2nd game showed alot of promise and then the Gamecube game fell on its ass. The 2nd game was pretty interesting it had personalized, some signature, moves for star players such as Allen Iverson. However that Gamecube game was so terrible, it was like they spent 6 months making it or something.
Hopefully to spur this talk in another direction, what do you guys think of other devs that have dropped the ball? Midway, Capcom? Every developer has its faults, some worse than others but you shouldn't blame them for switching platforms. For the most part I think SK, Factor 5, and Rare all left due to their companies losing too much money with Nintendo's platform. SK never had a hit selling game for Nintendo, Factor 5's RSIII didn't have sales, Rare only released like what 1 game for Gamecube and it bombed. I don't think money was the only reason but the way i see it is that in a business standpoint they have a better chance at staying afloat elsewhere.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on September 28, 2006, 02:40:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
They remind me of Rare in that respect: they're really skilled guys when it comes to maxxing out hardware. In that sense, they're a great asset any time launch comes around.
In my opinion, if Rare's developers were good at maxing out hardware, they wouldn't have released games with low, choppy framerates. They looked pretty in screenshots, but that doesn't take as much skill as maintaining fluidity. Factor 5 has my respect for technical skill, though. They did push too far in Rebel Strike's coop mode, causing TIE fighters to be almost completely unanimated in busy levels like Kothlis, but that was an acceptable tradeoff for the "There's too many of them" gameplay. Rebel Strike has plenty of flaws, but I found it worth the price just to play coop with a friend.
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on October 08, 2006, 10:48:38 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on October 09, 2006, 12:23:52 AM
I wouldn't call ED survival horror, it's more of a hack & slay. There's no horror to speak of in the game. The only game I played that I'd call horror is Project Zero.
Post by: ShyGuy on April 13, 2007, 06:28:24 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 13, 2007, 06:42:50 AM
Post by: Arbok on April 13, 2007, 06:54:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Factor5 comes back to reality
"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of fanboys suddenly cried out in triumph over the power of the PS3... and were suddenly silenced."
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 13, 2007, 07:03:03 AM
Well the backgrounds, like the water, look amazing, but the dragons and the character themselves look like something that could be done on the Wii. think its bad enough that the game was downgraded visually and that the frame rate had to be dropped, but they couldn't even make good looking fire in a next-gen game(RE4 on GC still does it best). I think its time Factor 5 comes back to Nintendo platforms where they can truly shine and quit wasting thier time and talents on a machine where their works shall easily be outdone by others.
Post by: Arbok on April 13, 2007, 07:08:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
I think its time Factor 5 comes back to Nintendo platforms where they can truly shine and quit wasting thier time and talents on a machine where their works shall easily be outdone by others.
I feel really bad for Factor 5. They were loyal to Nintendo for ages, but finally decided to go over to "greener pastures" when Rebel Strike dissapointed in terms of sales.... only to move to a platform that is tracking worse, in most respects, than the Gamecube was.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 13, 2007, 07:11:58 AM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on April 13, 2007, 07:42:00 AM
I for one don't care for their games.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 13, 2007, 09:34:53 AM
This is the unofficial development disaster sequel to Motorstorm.
Post by: Artimus on April 13, 2007, 10:39:45 AM
Post by: capamerica on April 13, 2007, 10:56:21 AM
Now heres a question do we even want them back now? Lucas Arts has a new team working on a StarWars for the Wii so Factor5 is out of luck doing another rehash of Rouge Squadron. And it seems like thats the only thing they have ever been good at.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 13, 2007, 11:14:49 AM
Post by: wandering on April 13, 2007, 11:42:07 AM
Post by: Artimus on April 13, 2007, 11:59:24 AM
Then the gameplay...eh...The ground stuff looks repetitive quick and I'm a little confused as to why the dragons sound like X-Wings when they blow fire. The amazing grass work gives me hope, though. New level of realism or what?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 13, 2007, 01:06:30 PM
Post by: Ceric on April 13, 2007, 02:06:54 PM
Post by: mantidor on April 13, 2007, 02:16:59 PM
Good thing for the internet, I love these footage, but I'll never play it and I have no interest in doing so.
Post by: Adrock on April 13, 2007, 04:49:25 PM
Quote
capamerica wrote:
Now heres a question do we even want them back now? Lucas Arts has a new team working on a StarWars for the Wii so Factor5 is out of luck doing another rehash of Rouge Squadron. And it seems like thats the only thing they have ever been good at.
So they made rehashes now. Not that I totally disagree, but I find it funny how quickly the tides change. Factor 5's GCN offerings are rehashes. But back when they were in Nintendo's camp, Nintendo fans couldn't keep their hands off their penises. Hmm....
Personally, I want Factor 5 making games exclusively for Wii. Why not? Because they made one game for Sony? Exclusivity, or even just more support, only makes Wii an even stronger platform.
Post by: Arbok on April 13, 2007, 04:54:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
But back when they were in Nintendo's camp, Nintendo fans couldn't keep their hands off their penises. Hmm....
...what the hell?
Anyway, Rebel Strike was dissapointing, but I would love to have Factor 5 back. They are important not just from a software side, but they also create a lot of great tools for developers to use.
Post by: Shift Key on April 13, 2007, 05:24:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
Factor 5's GCN offerings are rehashes. But back when they were in Nintendo's camp, Nintendo fans couldn't keep their hands off their penises. Hmm....
Hahahaha. YOU'VE STUMLBED UPON THE SECRET!
Quote
I'm a little confused as to why the dragons sound like X-Wings when they blow fire.
ALWAYS REHASH!
Post by: Kairon on April 13, 2007, 05:48:44 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 13, 2007, 06:11:45 PM
Post by: bustin98 on April 13, 2007, 06:13:32 PM
But seriously, I'm not a fan of how the wings look. The rear end of the wings look like gifs with transparency enabled. And the slo-mo action bit looks absolutely unnecessary. Maybe the first time you gallop into a group of soldiers and they go flying. But no more. What was cool was the rhino tossing. Bowling with the head was over the top and the animation of it bouncing in the air was too long, but swooping down and making the grab really seemed like a fun idea. Like a hawk or owl sweeping down and grabbing a rodent.
Ultimately, I'm disappointed. Though I'll never own a PS3, I was looking forward to this game making me change my mind. God of War 2 was close to doing so, though now I'm waiting to see if the PS2 will drop to under $100.
Factor 5, Jullian, please put together a game for the Wii and show UbiSoft and Take Two how to make pretty graphics on a Nintendo machine while keeping spot on controls.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 13, 2007, 07:23:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Lair looks pretty good you guys. They really seem to have nailed the camera angles when flying and that really accentuates the feeling of being on a creature that flaps its wings instead of being propelled by boring jets.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Camera angles and dragons make a game great, you guys should know that.
Post by: capamerica on April 13, 2007, 07:34:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
So they made rehashes now. Not that I totally disagree, but I find it funny how quickly the tides change. Factor 5's GCN offerings are rehashes. But back when they were in Nintendo's camp, Nintendo fans couldn't keep their hands off their penises. Hmm....
Personally, I want Factor 5 making games exclusively for Wii. Why not? Because they made one game for Sony? Exclusivity, or even just more support, only makes Wii an even stronger platform.
Actually when I saw RS3 I was pretty pissed off since it was just a rehash of RS2. I was more accepting of RS2 because it was a updated version of the N64 version. I know thats not how alot of other GameCube owners saw it. Even my opinion of Rare was no different when they were in Nintendo's camp I wasn't a fan of them then and I'm still not a fan of them now.
Post by: Kairon on April 13, 2007, 08:02:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Lair looks pretty good you guys. They really seem to have nailed the camera angles when flying and that really accentuates the feeling of being on a creature that flaps its wings instead of being propelled by boring jets.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Camera angles and dragons make a game great, you guys should know that.
Don't underestimate the power of good camera work.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Arbok on April 13, 2007, 08:10:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I didn't care that RS3 was a rehash... I cared that the missions, even the space ones... SUCKED! God, it's like they through whatever fun they had in the first game out the window...
It's so sad, but true. The best part about Rebel Strike was the ability to play the missions from RS2 co-op style...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 13, 2007, 08:16:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I didn't care that RS3 was a rehash... I cared that the missions, even the space ones... SUCKED! God, it's like they through whatever fun they had in the first game out the window...
It's so sad, but true. The best part about Rebel Strike was the ability to play the missions from RS2 co-op style...
I actually liked the last Rogue Squadron game. So take that all you haters!
Post by: Kairon on April 13, 2007, 09:00:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I didn't care that RS3 was a rehash... I cared that the missions, even the space ones... SUCKED! God, it's like they through whatever fun they had in the first game out the window...
It's so sad, but true. The best part about Rebel Strike was the ability to play the missions from RS2 co-op style...
I actually liked the last Rogue Squadron game. So take that all you haters!
You... are incomprehensible...
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 13, 2007, 09:21:37 PM
I'd like having Factor5 as a technology partner (DPLIIx and DivX ftw). But as a game developer, the need to try something ELSE for the sake of practicing different gameplay mechanics.
Post by: Mikintosh on April 14, 2007, 09:08:02 AM
So needless to say, "Lair" isn't an automatic sell. And I don't like the studio's attitude ("OOH we need the fanciest hardware for our video game MASTERPIECES where you fly ships around"), though it's funny how fast they were proven wrong.
Post by: Artimus on April 14, 2007, 09:17:47 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 14, 2007, 09:34:46 AM
Post by: Kairon on April 14, 2007, 09:46:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Can anyone explain why video games always feature extremely broad-shouldered men in trios (one of whom is always black looks like a fit version of Carl Winslow)? I feel like the opening to the trailer is out of another game. Like they took the Gears of War cut-scenes and added a couple 'thou's or something.
Things like this makes me think we need a Men's Studies 101.
Masculinity is such an interesting topic!
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Shift Key on April 14, 2007, 09:24:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
THIS. IS. SPARTAAAA.
Don't you mean THIS. IS. CAKETOWN!
Post by: Kairon on April 14, 2007, 11:14:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shift KeyQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
THIS. IS. SPARTAAAA.
Don't you mean THIS. IS. CAKETOWN!
AND.THIS.IS.HOW.YOU.BAKE.A.CAKE
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ceric on April 15, 2007, 04:50:40 AM
Post by: Ghisy on April 15, 2007, 05:42:23 AM
Post by: Kairon on April 15, 2007, 09:14:07 AM
*pssssst... the answer is Banjo & Kazooie 3*
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 15, 2007, 09:19:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Sooooo... which game will irrational Nintendo fanbois like me hate less? Lair or Too Human?
*pssssst... the answer is Banjo & Kazooie 3*
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I'm still on the fence about Too Human, I sure hope they did alot to improve it from when it was playable!
Post by: IceCold on April 15, 2007, 07:25:00 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 15, 2007, 08:49:10 PM
Post by: couchmonkey on April 16, 2007, 05:16:23 AM
I'm interested in both Lair and Too Human. In Lair's case, it sounds like moving the action to dragons allows better translation from flying to ground-based action, but I've also heard that the PS3 tilty controls are not that good - LOL.
Post by: vudu on April 16, 2007, 10:15:15 AM
QuoteAsk, and yee shall receive.
Originally posted by: Professional 666
In the same sense of people wanting to see skateboarders crash and burst their nuts, right?
Post by: Nemo on April 26, 2007, 09:18:09 AM
Even though I do feel like Rare isn't as good anymore, it'd still be good to have them aboard. I've heard Viva Pinata is good (which suprised me).
Post by: mantidor on April 26, 2007, 05:31:47 PM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on August 03, 2007, 07:05:07 AM
Post by: Mashiro on August 03, 2007, 07:21:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nitsu niflheim
EGM reviewed Lair, scores are 6.0 (Crispin), 5.5 ( G. Ford), 5.0 (Garnett).
Sony Blu-Ray: fitting mediocre games onto one one disc since 2007.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 03, 2007, 07:36:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I'd get Lair over Too Human anyday, I find Too Human kind of boring, generic stuff, at least theres dragons in Lair!
So you've played Too Human?
Post by: ryancoke on August 03, 2007, 07:39:32 AM
Post by: Kairon on August 03, 2007, 07:40:01 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 03, 2007, 07:41:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I was holding out hope for Factor 5's redemption but... *sigh* a small part of me isn't too surprised.
The one trick pony just broke a leg.
Post by: Kairon on August 03, 2007, 07:46:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I was holding out hope for Factor 5's redemption but... *sigh* a small part of me isn't too surprised.
The one trick pony just broke a leg.
That's mean-spirited. &<
Post by: nitsu niflheim on August 03, 2007, 08:12:26 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on August 03, 2007, 09:44:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nitsu niflheim
EGM reviewed Lair, scores are 6.0 (Crispin), 5.5 ( G. Ford), 5.0 (Garnett).
I hope that gets posted on Slashdot, I wanna see that PS3 troll AC try justify that one!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 03, 2007, 09:46:47 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 03, 2007, 09:47:28 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 03, 2007, 09:50:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Can't say I'm exactly surprised by the low scores. They were asking for it. They set the bar and everyones expectations for Disney Land and was only able to give Six Flags. On its own merits it may not be bad but is was only going to break through its own hype with being impeccably excellent.
Maybe, maybe not. I still don't know why people got hyped about it, I remember Sony's so-called gameplay videos and then the extreme dissapointment (again I don't know why people get hyped over a Sony teaser which never represents the final product) when the REAL gameplay pictures were shown.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 03, 2007, 10:12:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11kQuote
Originally posted by: nitsu niflheim
EGM reviewed Lair, scores are 6.0 (Crispin), 5.5 ( G. Ford), 5.0 (Garnett).
I hope that gets posted on Slashdot, I wanna see that PS3 troll AC try justify that one!
I hope I'm a mod that day. I'll have to mod that Funny.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 03, 2007, 05:37:07 PM
Post by: Crimm on August 03, 2007, 09:04:16 PM
What did Factor 5 screw up in RS 3? On foot. The engine that managed the third person ground pounding would have been deemed cumbersome on a late N64 game.
In every Lair preview the presence of a lot of time on foot movement was noted. Given Factor 5's recent history of really messing up a game by putting a lot of stuff on foot, I expected them to do the same here. After reading the reviews that's exactly what they did.
On top of that, the reviewers claimed the SIXAXIS did not help the gameplay, and in some cases made it less intuitive and fun. Shoehorned, is how I'd sum it up in a word.
The game got a bad review for bad controls. This time, however, Factor 5 managed to break the airborne stuff (to a lesser extent) too.
It should be noted that PLAY magazine gave the game a 9, but they also have a prodcut called "PLAY Magazine Presents: Girls of Gaming," that is listed early on their "about us." Take that how you will.
GamePro gave it a 3.75/5 (75%).
"To be fair, the motion sensing is pretty accurate but requiring you to constantly move your hands around while fiddling with buttons over the course of a fairly long game is asking too much." They also used the dreaded "g-word."
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 03, 2007, 09:18:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Crimm
They didn't get the bad scores because of expectations. They met my expectations exactly.
What did Factor 5 screw up in RS 3? On foot. The engine that managed the third person ground pounding would have been deemed cumbersome on a late N64 game.
In every Lair preview the presence of a lot of time on foot movement was noted. Given Factor 5's recent history of really messing up a game by putting a lot of stuff on foot, I expected them to do the same here. After reading the reviews that's exactly what they did.
On top of that, the reviewers claimed the SIXAXIS did not help the gameplay, and in some cases made it less intuitive and fun. Shoehorned, is how I'd sum it up in a word.
The game got a bad review for bad controls. This time, however, Factor 5 managed to break the airborne stuff (to a lesser extent) too.
It should be noted that PLAY magazine gave the game a 9, but they also have a prodcut called "PLAY Magazine Presents: Girls of Gaming," that is listed early on their "about us." Take that how you will.
GamePro gave it a 3.75/5 (75%).
"To be fair, the motion sensing is pretty accurate but requiring you to constantly move your hands around while fiddling with buttons over the course of a fairly long game is asking too much." They also used the dreaded "g-word."
Didn't Play magazine give Sonic the hedgehog for 360/PS3 a 9?
Post by: Arbok on August 04, 2007, 04:36:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Didn't Play magazine give Sonic the hedgehog for 360/PS3 a 9?
8.5.... still good enough to ignore what they say.
Post by: ryancoke on August 10, 2007, 03:18:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Crimm
They also used the dreaded "g-word."
What's the dreaded G word?
I've come up with possible answers:
1. Gaiden
2. Gorilla
3. Grape
4. Gallery
5. Gong
6. G-spot
Post by: Kairon on August 31, 2007, 05:52:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteI'd say quite a bit earlier than that..
Rare's game quality slipped starting with Star Fox.
Yeah. DK64.
But regarding IGN's Lair review... for some reason the things the reviewer specifically mentioned didn't seem to be evident in the videos IGN posted. I'm not saying I don't believe him, I'm just saying I wish the toro video actually showed exactly what he was referring to so I could get a better idea about what exactly went wrong with the game.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 31, 2007, 06:34:05 AM
I couldn't help myself.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 31, 2007, 07:11:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteI'd say quite a bit earlier than that..
Rare's game quality slipped starting with Star Fox.
Yeah. DK64.
But regarding IGN's Lair review... for some reason the things the reviewer specifically mentioned didn't seem to be evident in the videos IGN posted. I'm not saying I don't believe him, I'm just saying I wish the toro video actually showed exactly what he was referring to so I could get a better idea about what exactly went wrong with the game.
Well all you need to know is that IGN wasn't the only one to give it a low score.
Post by: Caliban on August 31, 2007, 05:16:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
But regarding IGN's Lair review... for some reason the things the reviewer specifically mentioned didn't seem to be evident in the videos IGN posted.
From what I read on IGN, the video review specifically shows what they negatively wrote about this game, I don't know if that's true or not because I have yet to watch the video review.
Post by: Kairon on September 01, 2007, 10:14:05 AM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on September 01, 2007, 02:02:16 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 01, 2007, 07:54:48 PM
Post by: Kairon on September 01, 2007, 08:15:12 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 01, 2007, 08:16:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I've heard you can plug in a generic USB gamepad into the PS3 and that using that vastly improves Lair...
Lol, didn't hear that. Sony better hope that Heavenly Sword gets super positive reaction from most critics, or they are pretty much done this season, unless Ratchet and Clank turns out to be a hot must have title.
Post by: Kairon on September 01, 2007, 08:31:51 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 01, 2007, 08:33:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Uncharted! Don't forget that too!
I think Uncharted is the perfect name, because the game will go unnoticed and will not be found by the majority of PS3 owners or potential PS3 owners.
Post by: Caliban on September 02, 2007, 12:37:59 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 02, 2007, 12:41:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
My friend got Lair, he doesn't understand why IGN complained about the controls, he said he's having fun so far, his only complaint was the lack of a map (enemy map I suppose) because he keeps on flaming his own troops too many times, and it also makes it harder for him to know where he has to go.
IGN's complaints (along with others) is that it becomes frustrating when you get the precision parts within the game.
Post by: Caliban on September 02, 2007, 12:45:22 PM
I will ask him if he had any problems with the controls in tight spots anyway, when I see him online that is.
Post by: Strell on September 03, 2007, 03:16:40 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 04, 2007, 09:56:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: KDR_11kQuote
Originally posted by: nitsu niflheim
EGM reviewed Lair, scores are 6.0 (Crispin), 5.5 ( G. Ford), 5.0 (Garnett).
I hope that gets posted on Slashdot, I wanna see that PS3 troll AC try justify that one!
I hope I'm a mod that day. I'll have to mod that Funny.
Well, a discussion about it happened now. Know what the trolls said? "It has 1080p, 25GB game data and motion controls!" Then they proceeded calling everyone who mentioned a review a fanboy for another system and claimed PSM was infiltrated by MS.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on September 05, 2007, 04:41:08 AM
Post by: Ghisy on September 05, 2007, 08:28:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Well, a discussion about it happened now. Know what the trolls said? "It has 1080p, 25GB game data and motion controls!"
Yeah, 25 GB of PHAIL!!
Post by: Mashiro on September 05, 2007, 11:42:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GhisyQuote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Well, a discussion about it happened now. Know what the trolls said? "It has 1080p, 25GB game data and motion controls!"
Yeah, 25 GB of PHAIL!!
GC doesn't post often but when she does . . . her posts are full of WIN! =)
Post by: UERD on September 05, 2007, 11:49:19 AM
I also wrote it with the help of twenty monkeys sitting at twenty typewriters
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 05, 2007, 12:17:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: GhisyQuote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Well, a discussion about it happened now. Know what the trolls said? "It has 1080p, 25GB game data and motion controls!"
Yeah, 25 GB of PHAIL!!
GC doesn't post often but when she does . . . her posts are full of WIN! =)
GC is actually a guy.
Post by: Mashiro on September 05, 2007, 12:22:16 PM
Post by: Ghisy on September 05, 2007, 08:51:56 PM
You may be confused by my avatar but that's Vanessa Carlton, just fyi!
Post by: Kairon on September 05, 2007, 09:05:44 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 05, 2007, 09:06:23 PM
Post by: Mashiro on September 06, 2007, 12:42:27 AM
::throws away flowers::
If you need me I'll be in my room . . .
CRYING.
Post by: bustin98 on September 06, 2007, 05:28:44 AM
:: Points at Mashiro and busts out laughing ::
Oh man. Thanks for one of the best laughs today!
I wonder how long it would take to get hit on if I change my avatar to a chic. Well, at least a better looking one than GP's (she's slightly better looking without the makeup, though she is pretty cool with all the scifi roles she has under her belt).
GC, seems you were prepared to be confused for someone else. Good attitude.
Post by: Ghisy on September 06, 2007, 10:19:28 AM
I think I need to edit my signature! haha
Or maybe is it because I never swear? Well, f*ck that! ROFL
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 06, 2007, 10:39:46 AM
Post by: Mashiro on September 06, 2007, 11:19:56 AM
And bustin I never hit on GC
Post by: Smash_Brother on September 07, 2007, 03:15:12 PM
Post by: stevey on September 07, 2007, 03:32:22 PM
"oh I have to tilt the sixaxis, then run across the room for it to pick up the movement and turn my character little"
Post by: KDR_11k on September 08, 2007, 12:52:20 AM
IOW: "We hyped it like mad so we think it'll sell despite being utter ####"
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 08, 2007, 01:51:03 AM
Post by: Ceric on September 08, 2007, 03:20:20 AM
Post by: UERD on September 08, 2007, 04:11:36 AM
Post by: Kairon on September 08, 2007, 08:03:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: UERD
Apparently, the controller can only sense one axis of motion at a time. (I forgot which reviewer said that, but I'll dig it up.)
Wow. Yes, link please. That would be SO DISAPPOINTING if true.
Post by: UERD on September 08, 2007, 09:23:56 AM
Quote
And it gets worse, because the motion-sensing controls of Lair are incapable of registering tilt on more than one axis. That means that whenever you want to turn, you can forget about ascending or descending. Severely limiting your ability to actually play this game, the lack of control is a serious deficit to any kind of enjoyment you may seek.
(link: http://ps3.gamespy.com/playstation-3/lair/817994p1.html)
Note that the reviewer didn't say 'Sixaxis' in general, but mentioned the game implementation. So maybe the Sixaxis is capable of multi-axis, but this game wasn't programmed to take advantage of that.
Post by: bustin98 on September 09, 2007, 09:55:32 AM
First: the controls. Actually, I didn't have much of an issue with them. At least nothing game breaking. Doing the 180 turn around takes some finesse, but nothing for someone with experience on the Wii. And that experience actually takes away from Lair. After spending hours on Metroid Prime 3, I've come acustomed to the sensitivity of the Wiimote. With Lair, there is a fair amount of dead space in the movement. At least in my opinion. My cousin, who owns the game, thought it was pretty sensitive. Now how it is with other games, I don't know. We played Warhawk but left the default controls on, which is the dual stick method.
Conclusion on controls: gimmick. Nothing being done can't be done on a dual stick setup. Warhawk even proves it. But they worked fine for the first two levels and the tutorials.
Graphics: Here we go again. A great big 'meh'. Its 'nice' to see all of the texture work, but people have fallen into the uncanny valley. And for all the hard work put into the graphics, you don't get to enjoy it because everything is so far away and you are concentrating on shooting down dragons or blowing up boats. The water effects were cool when a boat exploded, but really, is that worth the $500 pricetag of admission? There's also another 'Rogue Squadron' effect here: the shadows. Play Hoth and then this game and you'll see what I mean. The flickering shadows that suffer from anti-aliasing issues.
Conclusion on graphics: Nice, but less effort could have wielded similar results and maybe a steadier framerate (though framerate wasn't exactly an issue). Not exactly in the same league as Gears of War, but better than Resistance.
Presentation: This is Rogue Squadron. The way enemy dragons group together, the tow line that zips out, the 'dragon vision' that colors primary objectives, the medals and how they are scored. You even have 2 wingmen that you can command what to do. Its like they took the plan book for RS and slapped a fresh coat of paint on it. Only now there is no drawback to using the targeting computer, err I mean the 'dragon vision'. And the menu system = the same.
Conclusion of Presentation: If you like the past 3 Factor 5 games, you should like this one. Just don't expect anything to be different.
Overall: I had no glaring issues with this game. I do have issue with the hype and how it was being sold through the media. Its not a 5 or lower as nothing felt broken to me. Its not an 8 as nothing is ground breaking and developers need to challenge what they know rather than fall back on it. There is no growth, only a side step from one system to another. This isn't the game that makes you happy to have spent $2500 on a tv, nor does it justify your purchase of a PS3, but it does fill the empty space of waiting for other games to come out. If only Warhawk had a single player experience.
Score: 7 out of 10
Post by: Ceric on September 10, 2007, 03:25:19 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on September 10, 2007, 09:47:31 AM
Of course, all these control complaints are just whining by hardcore reviewers who don't like motion controls. They all hated on Wii Sports, too, and Lair is just the latest innocent victim of their muckraking. So says Julian Eggsbenedict in this Empty V article.
Quote
"The Sixaxis motion control itself feels a lot more organic and free-form than the rigid controls of other flight games and does much better for casual players, as we saw in focus tests. It does seem to alienate some reviewers who are at the top of the hard-core crowd and seem to have a passionate hate for all things motion, be it 'Wii Sports' with sometimes absurdly low scores for what might become the defining game of this generation, or 'Lair' as their newest poster child of evil. It's an unfortunate development that, if the players themselves listen too much to the motion-hatred message, will divide the gaming community. Our potential for growth as an art form for the mainstream is in the easier-to-access control schemes that might be less precise but a lot of fun."
He's got a point. I mean, just a little less than 2% of the reviews of Wii Sports scored it below 60, and 1/2 of the reviews of Lair did. Since they both have a 2 in them, 2% and 1/2 are almost exactly the same.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 10, 2007, 04:33:16 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on September 10, 2007, 04:40:33 PM
Seriously, that's a terrible system. I don't know how people can play most typically console FPSs.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 10, 2007, 04:45:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
Kind of like how Dual Analogs don't really work for an FPS game, right?
Seriously, that's a terrible system. I don't know how people can play most typically console FPSs.
I have no disagreement with you, it sounds like Lair should have stuck with traditional controls and FPS if they ever have the choice should stick to something like a Wiimote. Motion Controls have a lot of promise, but I don't want developers using them just to have them, instead I would like to see a balance. Heck I may have even bought Lair if it had traditional controls just as a time killer, but as it stands I'm still on the fence. There should have been an option for both control schemes.
Post by: that Baby guy on September 10, 2007, 05:09:06 PM
Post by: Kairon on September 10, 2007, 05:20:03 PM
Post by: UERD on September 10, 2007, 05:24:17 PM
I have the feeling that Sony 'encouraged' Factor 5 to make the controls motion-only, if only so they could say 'hey look, the Sixaxis isn't an enormous gimmick!'.
Quote
I don't know how people can play most typically console FPSs.
It makes them feel 1337 h4rdc0re. Also boosts their ego, especially when they can't figure out how to configure their network connection or router DMZ :P.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 10, 2007, 07:44:19 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 10, 2007, 11:26:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
I don't know how people can play most typically console FPSs.
Just play the kind were no target is smaller than a barn (I'm talking about EDF...)
