Post by: Kairon on May 05, 2006, 05:09:18 PM
Do I appreciate the name?
In that respect, my hat is definitely in the pro crowd. I like its difference, I like its humor, I like its versatility. I like its playfulness and I like its diminutiveness. And I like it as a console, too, and for those same reasons.
I mean, here is finally a name that breaks out of tech jargon. It isn't a Station. It isn't a Box. Heck, it isn't even a Cube! It simply isn't like any other concept of videogames that has come before: it's a revolutionary Wii. It attacks stereotypes of what games are and skips over boundaries about who plays them. It invites attention and discussion, but most of all exploration. It's an attention-getter, and a difference-definer, and I think we can all agree that it's already worked magic in those respects.
The name is playful. It sounds light and uncontrolled, not boxed in or cagey. Is it a squeal? Is it a statement? That's beside the point because the name is meant to be indefinable by conventional means. It sounds like a noun, or a pronoun, or an exclamation, and it truly can be all these things. It can be tossed around and played with, it can be inserted and joked about and punned. It's a name that's versatile and omnipresent, a name that's flexible and exuberant.
And it's a name that's shocking. It's short but stunning. It's simple but rich. It's high-brow and low-brow, or as Calvin would put it, "A painting of a comic strip panel. Sophisticated irony. Philosophically challenging." It's like one of Shakespeare's plays: there's something for everyone. The common man can enjoy a straightforward pun, play with the childishness, and the careful observer can note its inclusive theme, its visual metaphors. In a way, the name is shocking because it holds both possibilities for the recipient, they are given the opportunity to find their own way to enjoy it and interpret it.
So we shouldn't be surprised when people are stunned or challenged by the name. They're just being asked a question they've never been asked before: What am I? They're being put in the position to define, not be dictated to. They're being put in the position to experience, not merely view. And whether that results in Wii-jokes, or exclamation, or curiousity, or resoluteness, or even puzzled introspection, these things are all just different ways that people undertake discovery.
I believe that's how the Wii is supposed to be more than just another box, another cube. It's reaches out to those who aren't stuck to one way of thinking about games, it incites interest from those who never even thought to look in its direction. It can to reach out and stun you, make you ask questions and investigate, be played with, tried on for size, and be connected with the meanings that are built through experience, growing beyond past notions.
That's why I don't think someone who merely views it as a "gamer" can appreciate it. The Wii believes that people merely shouldn't be "gamers," they can be people who play, who seek out fun and inventiveness. We should be ever-growing and ever-changing and, one would hope, ever-playing with new ideas, experiences, concepts and interactions. Gaming isn't boxes and stations and cubes, those are physical things. Gaming is experience and sensation and innovation, it is a universal experience, something that can't and shouldn't be defined so harshly and resolutely.
That's what the Wii does that I appreciate: it doesn't give us a box, it gives us an experience. It incites playfulness and curiousity, depth and/or humor, plurality in individual experiences. The Wii gives us gaming more than any concrete cube, or station, or boy ever can, it gives us back the expression of gaming, rather than the weight of it.
So, it turns out, I actually appreciate it a great deal. And even moreso when I think that I could've practically said the exact same things about the console, and not the name (go back and reread it!).
But I told you that I didn't like it as a name, that in fact I haven't really liked any console name. When I started writing this I didn't know why, but over the course of writing this article I think I've discovered the reason. I like experiences, not definitions. I like possibilities, not dictations. And I like gaming, not labels.
I don't like Wii as a name. I do like it as a console, as an experience, and as a game. And I like everything it seems to represent to me.
But do I like it on the basis of just a"W" followed by a double "i" and nothing more. Do I like it without any further ideas, or any further meanings? Do I like it removed from any experiences or thoughts or emotions? Do I like it without meaning, just as a consonant and two vowels and that against a background of white?
No. I could not like that. How could anyone like anything so sterile?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 05, 2006, 05:13:24 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 05, 2006, 05:15:50 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 05, 2006, 05:18:08 PM
Post by: Kairon on May 05, 2006, 05:19:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Thanks for adding to the long list of "Wah wah I hate the name Wii" topics... >=|
Why thank you!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Zach on May 05, 2006, 05:32:58 PM
Post by: JoeTrumpet on May 05, 2006, 05:51:49 PM
As long as it doesn't affect your decision on whether or not to purchase it
which, sadly, doesn't seem to be true for everyone. I didn't care much for the name at first, although I was definitely worried about who it would alienate. I've grown to like it on a personal level, but I know that my purchase of Wii games can't support the console alone. Almost all of my worries are pretty much gone, though: people will get (or have gotten) used to it. Maybe the nongaming-and-image-conscious crowd will get over it post-launch (they wouldn't know about it beforehand to get over the name), but it'll probably still happen eventually.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on May 05, 2006, 05:53:50 PM
Post by: Requiem on May 05, 2006, 06:05:44 PM
I dont know why in the hell he/she likes writing that OVER AND OVER again, but hell....to each his/her own.
Post by: Jin-X on May 05, 2006, 06:30:08 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 05, 2006, 06:36:03 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on May 05, 2006, 06:37:07 PM
Post by: trip1eX on May 05, 2006, 06:37:40 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 05, 2006, 06:37:59 PM
I just plain despise it.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 05, 2006, 06:39:43 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 05, 2006, 06:43:37 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 05, 2006, 06:45:14 PM
Post by: Zach on May 05, 2006, 06:48:26 PM
Post by: zakkiel on May 05, 2006, 06:55:23 PM
QuoteYou know what else is revolutionary? A Revolution.
it's a revolutionary Wii.
Post by: Kairon on May 05, 2006, 07:17:39 PM
Oh, and Zekkiel, Revolution isn't as revolutionary as Wii in my opinion. If it was named Revolution, I assure you that I could not write that above piece in the manner in which it was written.
And, and just to be clear. I am pro on this name. I am, however, con on evaluating it as a simple "double-u followed by two "eyes."
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on May 05, 2006, 07:37:16 PM
Post by: Requiem on May 05, 2006, 07:41:26 PM
Or the itty-bitty
Or the teeny-weeny
Post by: Kairon on May 05, 2006, 07:42:38 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on May 05, 2006, 07:56:44 PM
How is that pronounced? Is it "uu-wee"?
If it is, then I have the exact "strange habit" but instead of just an exclamation, it usually reffered to it (whatever 'it' may be) as being highly exceptional.
Like "look at that ass! uuuweee!" Dumb, yes I know, but honestly if talking stupid, wierd, or in a strange way has any value at all, then it is in entertainment alone.
Post by: Kairon on May 05, 2006, 07:59:24 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on May 05, 2006, 08:02:08 PM
hahahahaahaha...
I'm not laughing at you....really, I'm not. I just had the funniest image pop into my head from your description!
Thank you for that
Post by: The Omen on May 05, 2006, 10:41:28 PM
Quote
Sorry, I felt that it was worth posting as its own thread, but there may be a point of disagreement there.
You did fine. The problem is Bill Has never had ONE negative thing to say about Nintendo since this site has existed. (prove me wrong!) What he sees as complaining is much more of venting, and discussing, two past times even the most level headed, ardent Nintendo fan would normally embrace.
Post by: Kairon on May 05, 2006, 11:26:31 PM
/cry
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: denjet78 on May 06, 2006, 01:38:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
That's why I don't think someone who merely views it as a "gamer" can appreciate it. The Wii believes that people merely shouldn't be "gamers," they can be people who play, who seek out fun and inventiveness. We should be ever-growing and ever-changing and, one would hope, ever-playing with new ideas, experiences, concepts and interactions. Gaming isn't boxes and stations and cubes, those are physical things. Gaming is experience and sensation and innovation, it is a universal experience, something that can't and shouldn't be defined so harshly and resolutely.
I...
I think I love you.
This is exactly the point that I've been trying to get across to everyone since I first realized it a few days ago. Wii is not a console for gamers, it is a console for everyone. And I do believe that this deserves a post all it's own for as many times as I have posted this exact same concept, though I don't think I could have done it with the flare that you have done here, not once did anyone ever pick up on it. Instead, what few responses that I did receive, were all akin to: "I don't care. The name still sucks."
Comprehension is a dying art.
Post by: eljefe on May 06, 2006, 01:08:33 PM
excellently written
could stand alone as an editorial in a newspaper / gaming site
Post by: zakkiel on May 06, 2006, 02:19:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Sorry, I felt that it was worth posting as its own thread, but there may be a point of disagreement there.
Oh, and Zekkiel, Revolution isn't as revolutionary as Wii in my opinion. If it was named Revolution, I assure you that I could not write that above piece in the manner in which it was written.
And, and just to be clear. I am pro on this name. I am, however, con on evaluating it as a simple "double-u followed by two "eyes."
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
My point was actually that names are not revolutionary. This is why there is no Nobel prize in naming. The point of of a product name is to make it easier to sell. That's it. If you can convince me that of all the names Nintendo might have chosen the Wii best fits this bill, I will reconcile myself to it. Heck, if you can convince me that of all the names Nintendo might have chosen this is not the very worst for selling the console, excluding slang, obscenity, and body parts and functions, then I might come around.
Post by: Kairon on May 06, 2006, 02:21:46 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: zakkiel on May 06, 2006, 04:36:50 PM
QuoteThis is a litany of qualities you find attractive. It speaks to the target market not at all. You assume that non-games will perceive these qualities as you do. But more likely they will see infantilism where you see humor, a complete lack of input from English speakers where you see versatility, and awkwardness where you see playfulness. And by awkwardness I do not mean the urine references that have others so exercised, I mean simply this: the word "Wii" as a noun just will not roll off an English-speaking tongue, especially since it has a long vowel which doesn't exist in the English language. The other product names so commonly enlisted in defense of Nintendo's choice sound like they belong in English. If you put "Wii" in a poem and scanned it, you would find it practically demands a ceasura.
In that respect, my hat is definitely in the pro crowd. I like its difference, I like its humor, I like its versatility. I like its playfulness and I like its diminutiveness.
They'll probably agree on the diminutiveness, though.
Post by: Kairon on May 06, 2006, 06:13:45 PM
Quote
So we shouldn't be surprised when people are stunned or challenged by the name. They're just being asked a question they've never been asked before: What am I? They're being put in the position to define, not be dictated to. They're being put in the position to experience, not merely view. And whether that results in Wii-jokes, or exclamation, or curiousity, or resoluteness, or even puzzled introspection, these things are all just different ways that people undertake discovery.
I mean to show that these things aren't negative at all. These reactions are occuring because the viewer is given a chance to discover an entirely new experience.
"Wii? What is that? Doesn't that sound like...? Doesn't that mean...? Let me try it out... I gotta tell my buddies at the watercooler!"
To criticize it as otherwise is to paint people as beings without curiousity, as creatures always on the prowl to destroy, and as destructive individuals who won't even take a moment to look at what this strange new thing is which causes people to laugh and wave their arms about. These are one-dimensional entities lacking merit and imagination, faith and excitement.
You talk of infantilism, but that's a word deliberately chosen when cuteness is more accessible. You mention a lack of input where uniqueness and unconventionality are instead the necessary risks when you dare to do more than reformulate. And you talk of awkwardness...
How can it be labelled awkward when the english language is the most bastardized, rule-breaking, irksome, rebellious, mutable, exciting language on the planet? How can it be awkward when feng shui isn't pronounced how it's spelled at all, yet it's a trend? When middle-america celebrity-watchers put Cruz after Penelope and instantly know how to pronounce it? When "Inagatadavita" is the song my friend always selects when we're doing karaoke? When "supercalifrajilistic expialidocious" was given to adults and children alike without any hint as to how its spelled, and then won an Oscar award? When no one needed to know that edelweiss was a flower when they heard it in "The Sound of Music"? And where no one in my high school social studies class was offput for long upon discovering Djibouti?
This is an awkwardness which, like the infantilism and the perception of recklessness, like the one dimensional beings that lack any inner light of curiousity or whimsy... This is an awkwardness which only exists because the future, and our potential, our whimsy and lightness and creativity and ability to laugh, is being discarded so readily and immediately.
I will address the sales issue now, since you wish me to. I urge you not to believe in a world of dark one-dimensional creatures. I urge you not to trap our experiences and emotions and desires in boxes and compartments. I urge you, I entreat you, to believe in a world where we can be curious, where we can laugh, where we can adapt to new things and grow to love them, and where this inclusiveness, this openness is celebrated, not buried underneath pessimism and distrust.
I urge you to do this because with regards to sales... it will not matter an ounce how many sales at all the Wii makes if such a world does not exist. And if we do not believe that such a world CAN ever exist, if we do not believe that people can be curious and level-headed instead of snide and malicious, that humans have a capacity for experience such that new things will not send us running in fear only to return with torches and pitchforks and blindness and anger...
If we end up believing that that a world with more in it is not even at all possible, then the issue of the Wii's success is moot, for play would soon cease to have meaning, gaming would lose its appeal, and fun - that inexact property that Nintendo tries to capture and share - fun would be a cruel joke on a pitiful existence.
Yet you ask me again about sales.
Screw the world, screw the people, screw every notion of right or wrong or good or bad or just or wise. Will the Wii sell? Will it succeed? Will it give me the userbase that I want for my own satisfaction, without regard for anyone else's?
I think the only way to answer your question is to ask you one of my own. Will you buy the Wii? Because every customer will be asked that same exact question. And if you buy the system, and you think that the world isn't such a terrible place, that there's some real value in your purchase, and that others in the same exact situation would do the exact same thing, odds are that you will find satisfaction more often than not.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
P.S. That was fun!
Post by: zakkiel on May 07, 2006, 12:15:11 PM
QuoteI find after reading this passage I cannot take any part of your post seriously. Sorry.
To criticize it as otherwise is to paint people as beings without curiousity, as creatures always on the prowl to destroy, and as destructive individuals who won't even take a moment to look at what this strange new thing is which causes people to laugh and wave their arms about. These are one-dimensional entities lacking merit and imagination, faith and excitement.
Post by: Kairon on May 07, 2006, 12:20:33 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: The Omen on May 07, 2006, 01:02:14 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 07, 2006, 05:06:56 PM
.
Post by: Kairon on May 07, 2006, 05:13:15 PM
How do you convince someone that pessimism without attention to optimism is just a distorted view of the world, and that people have as many good aspects about them that are just waiting to be awakened as they do have bad ones?
Any, I like going all verbage! It's fun!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 07, 2006, 05:15:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Well, the problem is this:
How do you convince someone that pessimism without attention to optimism is just a distorted view of the world, and that people have as many good aspects about them that are just waiting to be awakened as they do have bad ones?
Any, I like going all verbage! It's fun!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Well I guess if you really like it, then you can still do it :-P.
Post by: zakkiel on May 07, 2006, 05:45:06 PM
QuoteYou know, before I thought you were just positing the most ridiculous straw man I've ever encountered, but now I realize you really, truly believe that a negative attitude towards a console name represents a complete abhorrence of all humanity. This demonstrates two things. First, the reification of your own emotional response to a monosyllable such that anyone who does not share it must possess a set of beliefs bordering on psychosis. Second, the complete lack of what psychologists call modulation and proportion, a symptom characteristic of cult members and schizophrenics.
How do you convince someone that pessimism without attention to optimism is just a distorted view of the world, and that people have as many good aspects about them that are just waiting to be awakened as they do have bad ones?
Post by: Kairon on May 07, 2006, 06:07:13 PM
Instead, I want to illustrate how one-sided and without attention to other aspects of human character it is to pessimistically view people's reactions to the name instead of allowing for the virtues that I attribute to it. You say that people will find it awkward, yet I've gone from feng shui to Mary Poppins to demonstrate otherwise. Why disregard the whole positive side of the argument?
Indeed, people have claimed again and again of the negative reactions people will have to the name, yet the tests posted on this here board bear out nothing more than neutral confusion. What real reason do we have to assume negative reactions when the positives are just as much a real possibility?
This isn't a talk about the name, after all. It's a talk about how we believe people will react to it. Will they sneer at it, forget it, or even ridicule it? Or will they be surprised by it, be driven to investigate, and be entertained?
All that verbage beforehand was merely my attempt to make a case for believing the latter, as opposed to assuming the former.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on May 07, 2006, 06:12:59 PM
Post by: denjet78 on May 08, 2006, 12:53:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
There is true belief in what I wrote Zakkiel, but it isn't in deifying the name, nor is it in trying to connect vapidity with caution in a moral manner.
Instead, I want to illustrate how one-sided and without attention to other aspects of human character it is to pessimistically view people's reactions to the name instead of allowing for the virtues that I attribute to it. You say that people will find it awkward, yet I've gone from feng shui to Mary Poppins to demonstrate otherwise. Why disregard the whole positive side of the argument?
Indeed, people have claimed again and again of the negative reactions people will have to the name, yet the tests posted on this here board bear out nothing more than neutral confusion. What real reason do we have to assume negative reactions when the positives are just as much a real possibility?
This isn't a talk about the name, after all. It's a talk about how we believe people will react to it. Will they sneer at it, forget it, or even ridicule it? Or will they be surprised by it, be driven to investigate, and be entertained?
All that verbage beforehand was merely my attempt to make a case for believing the latter, as opposed to assuming the former.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I think the problem that you're running into is that you're trying to have a deep conversation with people who play video games on a video games forum. Not that your topic at hand isn't significant, I think it's very important for everyone to examine themselves and recognize the boundries of their own perceptions so that they can realize that perception is relative and that possibility is endless for the mind that seeks it out.
I've asked people myself why they hate the name and they give me this argument or that argument. Do they really believe them? I don't know. It seems too likely that they heard someone elses explination for not liking the name and adopted it as their own, and that person in turn looked for the simplest explination in the first place. Why? So they don't have to look into themselves for the real reason why they don't like it. Because they're afraid that what they're looking for is going to make them appear to themselves like others that they may have belittled in the past. There's almost a sense of superiority in most Nintendo gamers and to put it quite bluntly, they are anything but.
Nintendo gamers are better than other gamers. Lies. Am I guilty of believing this though? Yes. As I look down on a market filled with uninspired sequals, blood, and gore I like to think of the games that I enjoy as being more evolved. Are they really? No. They're still video games. I may achieve a different level of enjoyment but in the end we all play them for one reason: To have fun. And if you're not having fun, why the hell are you playing video games at all? Find something that you like and get to it.
Nintendo gamers are not as shallow as other gamers. Again, lies. What more proof do you need than the outrageous explosions of hatred generated by the revealing of Wind Waker? Much like the recent announcement of the "Wii" name these forums were flooded by screams of protest. Demands were made. Prophetic vows of doom abounded. comic books were started. Some even went so far as to say that they were never going to buy another Nintendo product as long as they lived. And where had this hatred sprung from? The "look" of a game? The most superficial aspect had suddenly become the most important. Anyone... ANYONE, can become a "graphics whore". I've even been one myself, on more than one occasion.
My point is, you're not right. None of us are right. We all have our opinions yes, but how many of us actually take the time to "think" about them? Where they come from? Why we believe them? Why do so many people have such a feverent need to silence others simply to make their own ideals seem better? Is it because they fear the pointless and finality of existence? Or is it because they feel that they are better than others, whether or not they are willing or even able to admit that to themselves?
No one likes to talk anymore. No one likes to think anymore. If it doesn't come in bite sized chunks with cutting edge special effects people just can't be bothered to pay attention. But I guess that's why something like a name can take center stage when we're about to see the arrival of the next evolution of game play.
Post by: Kairon on May 06, 2007, 11:57:03 PM
Oh, and I guess that the "sales issue" has been answered now that we've waited to see how things have played out, huh?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 07, 2007, 05:49:14 AM
The truth is Nintendo did spend tons of money on its marketing and desire to create a new name. It was a gamble, but it worked. And now nobody questions the name...in fact it has become hip.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 07, 2007, 05:54:41 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 07, 2007, 06:19:13 AM
Post by: Ceric on May 07, 2007, 06:54:41 AM
Post by: mantidor on May 07, 2007, 08:21:11 AM
Post by: Kairon on May 07, 2007, 08:39:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I think its obvious the console would have sold just as well without the hideous name anyway.
That is entirely 100% opinion Mantidor. I actually believe that the name was a boon to the system, and HELPED it sell.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 07, 2007, 09:38:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I think its obvious the console would have sold just as well without the hideous name anyway.
Like I stated in another thread, the Wii name has the same selling power as something like iPod. The way it is designed, and the ease it is said does impact not only sales but also whether or not it becomes a commonly used term. Would the Wii have sold well with the Revolution name? I am not sure, because in a way that name sounds "hardcore" and really does not have much meaning to those who have never thought about playing a game console before, in fact it may chase them away. The Wii name is unique, and does have meaning to people, not to mention it is fun to say in a strange way.
Post by: odifiend on May 07, 2007, 09:54:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I think its obvious the console would have sold just as well without the hideous name anyway.
That is entirely 100% opinion Mantidor. I actually believe that the name was a boon to the system, and HELPED it sell.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Also 100% opinion... I never got passionate about the name. Though I was a little dissappointed that they paid money for the name 'wii'. It did all work out, but I agree with Mantidor - the wii is not selling so well because of its name. Revolution might have been too hardcore, but people pay for the experience, not the name.
Did anyone mention that wii might have been given its name because that is the sound one makes when playing the console?
I could never figure out why they went with 'wii' but that seems very plausible right now.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 07, 2007, 10:04:02 AM
I say the opposite. The console has sold well despite the stupid name because it's interesting enough that people are willing to look into it. The name isn't enough to make them uninterested. But then how to do you prove what effect the name had? The console itself is of good quality and thus deserves to sell. Therefore it's kind of hard to see what impact the marketing had on it. The easiest way to tell the effect of marketing is if the opposite of what logically makes sense occurs. If a good product doesn't sell worth a damn it can be fair to assume it was the result of poor marketing while at the same time a crappy product selling really well can be said to have been marketed really well. But if a good product sells really well or a bad product bombs that's the way the world is supposed to work so how do you know how effective the marketing was?
I sure as hell don't think naming it "Revolution" or "N5" would have screwed sales up or anything.
And I like the name iPod so I just personally don't get why it's an example of weird name that caught on. Unlike Wii it actually makes a lot of sense and doesn't sound like potty talk. It's a personal music player. Thus "i" as in myself and "pod" is like calling it a capsule or a box, which is common with electronics.
I also think the DS succeeded despite not using the Gameboy name. I think it actually would have sold even better in North America as GBA sales continued to be high after the DS was released. I figure those who bought a GBA at that point were unaware that the DS can play GBA games and assumed that Gameboy Advance was the "top" of the Gameboy line when for all intents and purposes the DS is. But then Nintendo is probably happy that a large group of complete saps bought GBAs after it made logically no sense to do so (ie: the true motivation for the third pillar strategy).
Post by: optimisticlimbo on May 07, 2007, 11:52:50 AM
As for the Wii, name helped. It's unoffensive, and that helps a lot when bringing in new people. It's short and easy to remember. No more acronyms, butchering of the name, or using words from other systems.
Post by: Deguello on May 07, 2007, 11:01:22 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 07, 2007, 11:09:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Deguello
I'd like to see some evidence of the Wii's name hurting sales from people who did not have a negative opinion of it from the outset. They'd be... how shall I say... tempted to read the evidence in a way that fits their opinion.
Kind of hard to prove that kind of negative! In the case of the Wii name people were screaming about how it was going to hurt the Wii's image, and guess what it didn't. In fact the Wii has gone on to be one of Nintendo's most successful systems, and people are throwing the name around with a sense of joy, not a sense of "Hey this name sucks". If anything that indicates that the Wii name has NOT hampered its success at all, and even indicates that it contributed to its success (How much that contribution really is, is impossible to prove).
All we know now is that people are using it freely without relating it to some immature pee joke, and are in fact accepting it for what it is and what it means. In regards to the name itself, the design of the name is quite attractive, and it definitely stands out when you see it. Like the iPod, it is short and visually appealing, not to mention easy to say.
Post by: BigJim on May 08, 2007, 02:51:24 AM
Anecdotally, I don't hear piss jokes anymore. Rather, they always say it as, "Weeeeeeee!" in a high-pitched voice, which has a more fun/silly connotation... not necessarily a negative one.
Post by: Kairon on May 08, 2007, 04:18:54 AM
*sigh* I'm now depressed because of the above realization. Oh well... subjectivity still has its place in argument and discussion, it's just a pity no definitive proof can be brought to bear. Saying the Wii name is helping the system sell is like saying the Gamecube's name didn't.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 08, 2007, 04:30:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Lol. Yeah, seriously. I can't think of a way to prove factually that the name was either positive OR negative. Both supporters and detractors will depend on complete subjectivity in their arguments... *sigh* It's all 100% opinion (and probably will remain so forever), with the happenstance that the darn thing is actually selling no matter what our personal view.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I wouldn't say 100% opinion because all indicators is that at the very least it is not hurting the Wii, heck you can't even find it in the store! If the name was hurting sales (especially to the point some of the naysayers said) there is nothing to back that claim up if you look at things from outside. Personally I wish I knew more details about great names for products, but I wasn't a marketing major, though I do know the name is still an important piece to the puzzle in pretty much any product, which is why millions is usually spent trying to develop it!
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 08, 2007, 05:13:01 AM
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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I wouldn't say 100% opinion because all indicators is that at the very least it is not hurting the Wii, heck you can't even find it in the store! If the name was hurting sales (especially to the point some of the naysayers said) there is nothing to back that claim up if you look at things from outside.
Well, this is being pedantic, but just because demand is exceeding production capacity doesn't mean it's the highest it could possibly be. It's just not worth worrying about because, once again, demand is exceeding production capacity. Maybe with a different name, demand might be some percent higher or lower than it is, but as long as demand is exceeding production capacity, that doesn't matter. By now, so much momentum has been built that it won't matter after that's no longer the case, either. It truly is moot (in the more recent, pedant-annoying sense of the word).
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Personally I wish I knew more details about great names for products, but I wasn't a marketing major, though I do know the name is still an important piece to the puzzle in pretty much any product, which is why millions is usually spent trying to develop it!
I'm no marketing major either, but I think Nintendo took a big risk with the name, mostly because it's so unconventional. It seems to have turned out that more people made the "Whee!" connection than anything else, so everything worked out in the end, although I don't think I've ever heard of anyone getting the pronoun "we" connection as anything more than a pun used in the commercials.
Personally, I still think it's a bit lame and sounds too much like it was created by a committee, but I can deal with it. At the very least, I've long since gotten over arguing about it. One thing I've noticed, however, is that whenever people bring it up in conversation (which happens more than I expected, which is awesome), they always explain what it is briefly. They say things like, "Have you tried the Wii? The new Nintendo console?" They don't do that when they mention the PS3 or Xbox 360. Part of that may be that the PS3 and Xbox 360 have sequel names, so everyone's had several years to learn to associate those names with video games. Another possibility is that Wii is the least descriptive name for a console Nintendo has ever used. Previous names included the words entertainment, game, or, after it became synonymous with games, Nintendo. Regardless, it doesn't seem to dampen enthusiasm at all, and I'd chalk it up as a point for the name not having a significant effect either way.
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2007, 06:19:29 AM
"I think" == "IMO", just to be clear that I was stating my opinion and in no way I was saying it was a fact.
I can see however that naming it the kinetic gamestation 5000 would have slowed sales somewhat (which mean it would be available so it isn't such a bad scenario after all), but nintendo would have never named it like that, something like "rev" would have done the trick just as well.
Post by: Kairon on May 08, 2007, 06:56:42 AM
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Originally posted by: mantidor
Well, apparently it wasn't that obvious :P.
"I think" == "IMO", just to be clear that I was stating my opinion and in no way I was saying it was a fact.
I can see however that naming it the kinetic gamestation 5000 would have slowed sales somewhat (which mean it would be available so it isn't such a bad scenario after all), but nintendo would have never named it like that, something like "rev" would have done the trick just as well.
DOH!
I was bamboozled by the close proximity of "I think" and "it should be obvious." Talk about a combination of opposites!
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Nick DiMola on May 08, 2007, 08:55:22 AM
(I can't believe I just said that. A year ago I was saying that I would never call it the Wii, it would forever be the Revolution, guess I drank the Kool Aid with everyone else...)
Post by: Kairon on May 08, 2007, 09:05:08 AM
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Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
I would say that the Wii name, though stupid probably helped Nintendo. It stirred up alot of press a year ago and really got the mainstream cognizant of the product. In addition to that, the Wii logo and presentation is visually appearing and makes for better marketing materials. I'm guessing people who study this kind of stuff would tell you that Nintendo made all the right choices for the Wii. I think the demand would be the same right now regardless, but I'm not so sure that down the line the name would be as attractive and as fitting to the product.
(I can't believe I just said that. A year ago I was saying that I would never call it the Wii, it would forever be the Revolution, guess I drank the Kool Aid with everyone else...)
Well, I don't think the name would help in a COMMODITIES market, but something like the game market which is based around emotion, entertainment, and experiences is a different story.
By the way... *gulps down kool-aid through a mega-jumbo-straw* ... how do you like the flavor?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 08, 2007, 02:38:43 PM
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Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I wouldn't say 100% opinion because all indicators is that at the very least it is not hurting the Wii, heck you can't even find it in the store! If the name was hurting sales (especially to the point some of the naysayers said) there is nothing to back that claim up if you look at things from outside.
Well, this is being pedantic, but just because demand is exceeding production capacity doesn't mean it's the highest it could possibly be. It's just not worth worrying about because, once again, demand is exceeding production capacity. Maybe with a different name, demand might be some percent higher or lower than it is, but as long as demand is exceeding production capacity, that doesn't matter. By now, so much momentum has been built that it won't matter after that's no longer the case, either. It truly is moot (in the more recent, pedant-annoying sense of the word).Quote
Personally I wish I knew more details about great names for products, but I wasn't a marketing major, though I do know the name is still an important piece to the puzzle in pretty much any product, which is why millions is usually spent trying to develop it!
I'm no marketing major either, but I think Nintendo took a big risk with the name, mostly because it's so unconventional. It seems to have turned out that more people made the "Whee!" connection than anything else, so everything worked out in the end, although I don't think I've ever heard of anyone getting the pronoun "we" connection as anything more than a pun used in the commercials.
Personally, I still think it's a bit lame and sounds too much like it was created by a committee, but I can deal with it. At the very least, I've long since gotten over arguing about it. One thing I've noticed, however, is that whenever people bring it up in conversation (which happens more than I expected, which is awesome), they always explain what it is briefly. They say things like, "Have you tried the Wii? The new Nintendo console?" They don't do that when they mention the PS3 or Xbox 360. Part of that may be that the PS3 and Xbox 360 have sequel names, so everyone's had several years to learn to associate those names with video games. Another possibility is that Wii is the least descriptive name for a console Nintendo has ever used. Previous names included the words entertainment, game, or, after it became synonymous with games, Nintendo. Regardless, it doesn't seem to dampen enthusiasm at all, and I'd chalk it up as a point for the name not having a significant effect either way.
I have had completely different experiences, people use Wii and everyone knows what it means.
Post by: Mario on May 08, 2007, 04:17:01 PM
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I'm no marketing major either, but I think Nintendo took a big risk with the name, mostly because it's so unconventional.
The whole damn system was a big risk, that's why it fit.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 08, 2007, 05:32:12 PM
Flashers beware.
Post by: couchmonkey on May 09, 2007, 11:21:27 AM
Post by: vudu on September 14, 2009, 02:35:26 PM
"I actually believe that the name was a boon to the system, and HELPED it sell."
I say the opposite. The console has sold well despite the stupid name because it's interesting enough that people are willing to look into it. The name isn't enough to make them uninterested. But then how to do you prove what effect the name had? The console itself is of good quality and thus deserves to sell. Therefore it's kind of hard to see what impact the marketing had on it. The easiest way to tell the effect of marketing is if the opposite of what logically makes sense occurs. If a good product doesn't sell worth a damn it can be fair to assume it was the result of poor marketing while at the same time a crappy product selling really well can be said to have been marketed really well. But if a good product sells really well or a bad product bombs that's the way the world is supposed to work so how do you know how effective the marketing was?
If the name had no effect that it obviously doesn't matter and isn't worth arguing about.
A name is just that ... a name. (... a rose by any other name would smell as sweet ...) Xbox makes no sense (and neither does 360 for that matter) and PlayStation sounds just as juvenile as Game Boy. They're just labels--who cares?
We all know it comes down to the games (and to a lesser extent the hardware).
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 14, 2009, 03:30:47 PM
Nintendo Play Station then turns into Sony PlayStation. But I really don't think the playstation would have been any less successful if they had called it something else instead.
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We all know it comes down to the games (and to a lesser extent the hardware).
But I think alot of the success was not just from the games, but from the marketing. Same to be said about the Wii. Sony made Nintendo look childish through marketing and that was the biggest factor to making the PS a success. It was cool to own one, and once you owned it, you had to buy the games up keep up the image.
Wii, regardless of the weird name, which was so weird that it cause people to talk about it(product awareness!!), was marketed perfectly to the audience it was trying to reach, the "Real" Mature crowd.
Now in hindsight the name never really mattered.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 14, 2009, 03:42:32 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on September 14, 2009, 03:43:36 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 14, 2009, 03:50:54 PM
Post by: vudu on September 14, 2009, 03:58:59 PM
But I think alot of the success was not just from the games, but from the marketing. Same to be said about the Wii. Sony made Nintendo look childish through marketing and that was the biggest factor to making the PS a success. It was cool to own one, and once you owned it, you had to buy the games up keep up the image.
If Sony made Nintendo look childish it was via the colorful games and "underpowered" system. It wasn't because of the name.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 14, 2009, 04:01:31 PM
But I think alot of the success was not just from the games, but from the marketing. Same to be said about the Wii. Sony made Nintendo look childish through marketing and that was the biggest factor to making the PS a success. It was cool to own one, and once you owned it, you had to buy the games up keep up the image.
If Sony made Nintendo look childish it was via the colorful games and "underpowered" system. It wasn't because of the name.
Oh I meant Sony made the N64 look childish, not the Wii.
I meant the Wii strong suit was Marketing.
I put that sentence together badly.
Post by: vudu on September 14, 2009, 04:24:41 PM
In all cases Sony has tried to discredit Nintendo by poking fun of its family-friendly games and "underpowered" hardware.
Post by: EasyCure on September 14, 2009, 04:34:15 PM
I think they did a great job marketing this console actually. Nintendo used to be synonomous with video games in general, but lost that to Sony during the Playstation era. Now it seems like Nintendo is back on top and Wii is a brand is synonmous with, well, fun! Thats the genius of it too, with the Wii as a brand they've seperated themselves from the other guys and grab the little bit of space left in consumers brains, even if it doesn't completely erase "playstation" or "xbox" completely. When some people think of wii, they don't think JUST videogames, they think of the motion controled thingy thats fun for the whole family. It just stands out more than any playstation ever could.
Post by: EasyCure on September 14, 2009, 04:36:22 PM
My point still stands. (I left if generic for a reason.) It applies to the N64. It applies to the GameCube. It applies to the DS. And it applies to the Wii.
In all cases Sony has tried to discredit Nintendo by poking fun of its family-friendly games and "underpowered" hardware.
So you're saying Sony is the middle-aged guy with the comb over that drives around in a shiny red porsche with his sun glasses on and the hooker he tries to pass off as his girlfriend that pulls up next to you at the red light, revving his engine because he's insecure about his penis size?
yeah sounds about right.
Post by: Stogi on September 14, 2009, 04:42:31 PM
"Ughh....your buying Wii controllers. Don't you think your a little too old for that?"
I responded with something fierce and so did my friend. We ended up laughing our way out of the store, but the point still stands. She was an outlier; someone who didn't represent the masses. I've seen more Wii's in college houses than any other system. Like wiggles said Wii = fun.
It's a solid name. One that's easily identifiable. I thought so back then, and I still think so now.
Post by: EasyCure on September 14, 2009, 04:47:34 PM
Post by: Mop it up on September 14, 2009, 06:34:18 PM
...though why was this old topic bumped? Sort of a "then and now" type of thing?
Post by: broodwars on September 14, 2009, 06:42:10 PM
I responded with something fierce and so did my friend. We ended up laughing our way out of the store, but the point still stands. She was an outlier; someone who didn't represent the masses. I've seen more Wii's in college houses than any other system. Like wiggles said Wii = fun.
I wonder just how many people that now brag about being part of the "masses" cared so much about that when they most certainly were not among them in the N64 and GameCube eras. It seems to me some people are still fighting the console wars of 10 years ago, but now that they are in the majority are enjoying being just as judgemental as those who ostracized them so many years ago. Just food for thought there.
Incidentally, why exactly was this topic revived 2 years after the last post? Whether you think the Wii's name is stupid or not (and I think it is), that is the system's name and it's not going anywhere. It's silly to argue about it now.
Post by: Ian Sane on September 14, 2009, 06:52:17 PM
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After all these years, I still don't feel odd asking for Wii games or accessories, and still say screw the haters.
Well after all these years I certainly don't feel odd asking for Wii stuff either, since the Wii name is so well known now that everyone knows what you're talking about.
I still think it's a dumb name. I still think, at best, the silly name was irrelevent to the Wii's success. I wouldn't suggest Nintendo call their next console "Puu" or anything like that though at this point to not use "Wii" in the title in some way would probably be throwing away brand name recognition for no reason (unless Nintendo wanted to overhaul their image, but I can't imagine they would.) The thing is if the names "N-Gage", "Gamecube" or "Saturn" were not already taken, Nintendo could have called the Wii that and still sold as many consoles. What sold the Wii, what always sold the Wii, was that they had this game where you swing the controller and the character on the screen swings the baseball bat, golf club or tennis racket in the same way at the same time. It's the closest anyone has ever got to virtual reality and the second everyone saw that they wanted it and would have even if it was called the "Phuk" and had a logo that accidentally resembled a swastika.
Wii Sports is everything. The sheer "wow" factor of the controls for that game sold Wiis. I would say everything else is a red herring and for all future consoles Nintendo should take into account that the real key is a system selling game that everyone just HAS to play and is so different that no one else has anything like it. There are other factors but THAT is what they should focus on the most. It's the one thing that if you went back in time and changed it you would get completely different results.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 14, 2009, 07:19:37 PM
Carrying the Wii feels like I should be delicate as if it were a hard drive full of treasures.
Post by: broodwars on September 14, 2009, 07:22:46 PM
The handle was so useful.
Carrying the Wii feels like I should be delicate as if it were a hard drive full of treasures.
Why should you ever need to carry the Wii anywhere when you have that wonderful online system Nintendo's set up for you?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 14, 2009, 07:31:30 PM
My TV is in my living room. My video workstation is in my bedroom. My Wii has to be transported between the two for different purposes, and I have 2 of every cable/attachment for that sake.
Am I supposed to get a 2nd Wii? I hope not, that's like 4 months worth of retail games I'd buy.
Post by: King of Twitch on September 14, 2009, 09:02:20 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 14, 2009, 09:30:56 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on September 15, 2009, 12:25:14 AM
Last gen, people had a hard time telling the "GameCUBE" from the "xBOX". This time, there was zero confusion between the two.
Post by: nickmitch on September 15, 2009, 03:16:02 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 15, 2009, 04:52:24 AM
Post by: Stogi on September 15, 2009, 11:14:33 AM
I responded with something fierce and so did my friend. We ended up laughing our way out of the store, but the point still stands. She was an outlier; someone who didn't represent the masses. I've seen more Wii's in college houses than any other system. Like wiggles said Wii = fun.
I wonder just how many people that now brag about being part of the "masses" cared so much about that when they most certainly were not among them in the N64 and GameCube eras. It seems to me some people are still fighting the console wars of 10 years ago, but now that they are in the majority are enjoying being just as judgemental as those who ostracized them so many years ago. Just food for thought there.
Incidentally, why exactly was this topic revived 2 years after the last post? Whether you think the Wii's name is stupid or not (and I think it is), that is the system's name and it's not going anywhere. It's silly to argue about it now.
Who was bragging? That dumb bitch was trying to put ME down! LOL
Post by: ThePerm on September 15, 2009, 09:27:12 PM
