Post by: RickPowers on May 03, 2006, 05:37:33 PM
I haven’t seen this many people with their heads buried in the sand since the “Cartoon Wars" episode of South Park.
Of course, I’m talking about Nintendo’s Public Relations team, who were tasked with the unenviable duty of not only justifying the new name of their next console, but stretching their Jedi mind powers in every conceivable way. Unsurprisingly, they’ve been less than convincing, largely because it seems that they themselves are not yet convinced, reduced to spouting the company line and waving their hands like Alec Guinness. Yes, a lot of product names sound silly when you first hear them, and I see where Nintendo is coming from on that front. TiVo and Google are nonsensical, but there are so many differences that it’s hard to begin explaining them. But that’s my job, so here goes.
Product naming is known as a bit of a black art, but like most art, people know a good name when they hear it. I have yet to come across anyone who understands “Wii" when they hear it. For most people, it’s not spelled how it sounds, and it doesn’t sound how it’s spelled. The Japanese don’t even have that sound in their vocabulary! When you’re asking people to buy a product, confusion is not something you want to contend with. The pronunciation needs to be instant and unambiguous, and Wii fails that test. Google gets lucky because they aren’t asking you to buy anything … the cost of a trial is nothing except your time, and that allows the name to get out of the way. Not to mention that Google does fun things with their logo, which helped endear people to the brand.
For all of the wonderful things that the name is supposed to evoke, you lose all of them as soon as you have to explain them. The mere fact that Nintendo needed to explain the name to its most ardent fans is a sign that the decision needed more refinement. You want the first image in someone’s head to be the right one, but more often than not, the first image in the minds of most Americans is not flattering. Urine and penis jokes aside, the images Nintendo wants to convey don’t come across until you’re told what they are, and you take time to ruminate (I won’t use the word “marinate" as Nintendo PR suggested, lest another joke surface) on the name. That’s a major issue, since a good product name, while it might sound curious at first, shouldn’t take more than a few moments to truly sink in. While Nintendo’s fans are fine with sitting back and thinking about what their favorite brand has done, the very people Nintendo are trying to cater to won’t give them the chance. It has already begun, as opinion on the name is starting to soften a mere day later … but then again, we’re the ones who really care. Will the casual gamer give Nintendo a day before making a purchase decision?
Those “mainstream gamers" that Nintendo is trying to bring under their wing will not be caught dead “playing Wii". They are far more image-conscious, and what’s baffling is that Nintendo knows this. Game Boy Micro was the device designed for exactly this segment. DS Lite was designed to appeal more to the image-conscious than the more toy-ish look of the original DS. That’s what makes this decision all the more perplexing; for a device that people have to pick up to understand, you’ve just ensured that it’s unlikely that they will give it a chance, for fear their friends will hear that they’ve been “playing with their Wii all weekend". Nintendo’s supporters and other “hardcore" gamers learned to get over the image issues long ago; we handled the GameCube handle, and we can handle this name. But Nintendo has just risked losing all the ground they gained with the DS. It’s almost as if they got lucky with all of their previous decisions.
We haven’t even gotten to the place where the TiVo and Google brands truly excel, and where Wii falls completely flat. Those names achieved the holy grail; they became verbs. Even on other recording devices, people now say that they “TiVo’ed" a program; when you search for information on the internet, you Google it, even if you’re not using Google as your search engine. Wii can’t become a verb without becoming “Wii’d", which brings up entirely different negative connotations and joke potential.
So, to sum up Nintendo’s challenges:
That brings up an interesting bit of history. In the 1980’s, Nintendo was synonymous with video games; irrespective of the system you played games on, you were “playing Nintendo". Nintendo has some small opportunity in that gamers may simply refuse to use the name, a trend we’re already seeing on some websites. Unfortunately, Nintendo might have squandered even that possibility by dropping the Nintendo name from the product, leaving people to simply call it … nothing. And when you can’t bring yourself to utter the name of a product, how are you going to buy it?
Post by: Zach on May 03, 2006, 05:46:01 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 03, 2006, 05:46:43 PM
PS I thought Rick died.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 03, 2006, 06:03:08 PM
Post by: denjet78 on May 03, 2006, 06:18:49 PM
What I don't understand is how no one else sees the pattern. Everyone hated the Wii controller because it was just so radical and different, until Nintendo explained it. Anyone else remember that demo reel? Then finally some people began to understand. Everyone hated the Wii name when it was revealed, Nintendo shows a demo ad and some people begin to soften to it. Point being: NONE of this is aimed at gamers in general. That's why they're having to explain it all. It's aimed at the greater market. You know, the BILLIONS of people who don't play video games and never will if they remain as complicated and self-centered as they are now?
And believe it or not, those people will buy the Wii. Hell, after they see someone playing a game a Wal-Mart or GameStop or wherever else, they'll just have to try it. And if they try it, they just might get it. And if they get it, the name will be the least of their worries. You'll never see lines at a PS3 or XBox360 demo station but mark my words, you'll see them in front of the Wii all the time. Unless you're one of those idiots that lives on marketing hype, you're going to have to try the Wii at least once.
This is a complete redefining of what gaming is, and you're not going to completely understand it until you try it. I don't even understand it, but I can see it's promise, and I did from day one. Well, after it was explained to me. When I first saw the controller, I was pissed. It looked like crap. But then they explained 3D space and I was totally enthrawled. I didn't care how many buttons it had or even that it was lacking a control stick. All I cared about what that it was beyond my wildest imagination. When they announced the Wii name, I didn't really care. Why? I was too hopped up on the controller to care. NOTHING could kill that for me. But I saw the demo ad and thought about it for a little while longer and realized why I didn't care. Because it wasn't aimed at me. In the end, the controller isn't even aimed at me, but it has the ability to strech into relms that I can understand.
I don't have to care about the name because it's for other people, those who wouldn't feel comfortable buying something called a PlayStation or an XBox or even a Revolution. Those are VIDEO GAME systems after all. Only kids and image obsessed teens play with those. But a Wii? What's a Wii? It's so different and new that anyone and everyone might just be willing to give it a try. And if they try it... well, you know the rest.
Post by: Magus19 on May 03, 2006, 06:27:45 PM
Post by: denjet78 on May 03, 2006, 06:41:42 PM
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Originally posted by: Magus19
Every one I talked about this, non gamers and casual gamers who don't read the news, said it was dumb. I even explained it. Wii has too much conotations that it don't fits in the category of it doesn't mean anything like they want. Non gamers wont be more curious because of a weird name.
Let's see... most likely you explained it to them from a gamers perspective with your own connotations already attached to it. I can make that judgement because that's basically how everyone else here seems to be reacting to it. The people I've talked to seem fine with the name, and it's probably the way I presented it. I just told them that Nintendo's next console, the one with the oh so cool and completely revolutionary controller is going to be called Wii. I said it to them a few times, and even spelled it for them when they asked. Their reactions were fine. Most of them, in fact, were far too interested in what the controller could do to care about the name. I don't remember a single joke. Again, how exactly did you approach these people with it?
And just throwing the name out there isn't going to do much good. These same people who state that it's stupid and that they hate it might be singing it's praises and proclaiming how they can't wait to buy it after they actually get the chance to actually play with one. It's a package deal: The controller, the name, the games. Without one, the other two just aren't the same.
Post by: Pryopizm on May 03, 2006, 06:46:56 PM
Post by: Strell on May 03, 2006, 06:48:57 PM
Sigh.
At this point I'm really starting to think the name is a terrible idea...
Post by: Strell on May 03, 2006, 06:50:06 PM
Post by: Arbok on May 03, 2006, 06:51:50 PM
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Originally posted by: denjet78
You know, I'd be more willing to buy into the whole anti-Wii rhetoric if it wasn't just gamers throwing it around. You know, if the actual people that Nintendo is aiming this console at (ie EVERYONE) got the chance first to decide? And they won't even know it exists for months yet.
The name is a HANDICAP, period. "Everyone" might not hate it, but it sure won't get people interested alone and it will, without doubt, turn some of the teenage crowd away who wouldn't be caught dead with it due to something so simple like the name.
That's fine if you like it, but notice that simply the fact that you are saying that "gamers" might not like that, that alone makes this a horrible choice. This name won't draw in the "never played a game in their life crowd", yet it has the chance to turn away some of the numerous gamers who make the Madden and other slush like that a hit, all over something as trivial as a name.
Also, great article Rick. You hit on a lot of great points about the name.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 03, 2006, 06:54:27 PM
Are you sure it was that and not your terrible use of the English language?
Post by: Arbok on May 03, 2006, 06:56:53 PM
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Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Are you sure it was that and not your terrible use of the English language?
That's another thing, I have seen more topics turned into almost a "flame war," with comments getting personal, over this then anything else on PGC. Even the HD thing never dipped close to flames from the users.
Post by: Nick DiMola on May 03, 2006, 07:10:56 PM
This morning I get into my car and click on the radio. Every morning on my way to work/school I listen to Rover's Morning Glory. They do a little bit called "The Shizzy" where they report news that their audience may find interesting. One of the stories today was how Nintendo renamed their system from Revolution to Wii. All the hosts on the show really aren't gamers with the exception of one who only plays sports games. The immediate reaction after hearing the name was "Oh my God! That is the gayest(sic) name I have ever heard! That would be like Atari calling their next system the flower! That name is terrible. What was wrong with the name Revolution?" The market Nintendo is trying to hit is people like that, and look at the reaction they received. After a couple of minutes of babbling about the name, the ended on the note that the name was terrible and that nobody would buy it because of the name.
Outstanding.
I am just keeping my fingers crossed that come E3 Nintendo is going to be like "LOLZ Wii were just kidding!11!! Viva la Revolution!" But god knows that'll never happen. Damn you Nintendo and your awful marketing department. I swear they actually want this system to fail.
Post by: UncleBob on May 03, 2006, 07:11:41 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 03, 2006, 07:34:20 PM
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 03, 2006, 07:36:49 PM
http://www.planetgamecube.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=28&threadid=15835
Post by: slacker on May 03, 2006, 07:49:33 PM
Post by: RocketDarkness on May 03, 2006, 07:52:45 PM
Post by: Arbok on May 03, 2006, 07:57:23 PM
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Originally posted by: slacker
How about the porn industry and why is it so damn large? People play games in the privacy of their homes just like they watch porn. My point is that video games are entertainment best enjoyed in the privacy of their own homes.
Yeah... do people realize that when you compare the Wii name to the aspect of buying porn, that clearly it's a failure? The thing that frustrates me is that the name is such a simple aspect of the whole picture, yet Nintendo botched it so hard that the "true" fans are having to reach to great lengths to justify it. I will say it again, the name isn't a doomsday device for the system, but lets admit that it does handicap it quite a bit, which is ludicrous for a marketing device like this to do.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 03, 2006, 08:00:37 PM
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Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Are you sure it was that and not your terrible use of the English language?
That's another thing, I have seen more topics turned into almost a "flame war," with comments getting personal, over this then anything else on PGC. Even the HD thing never dipped close to flames from the users.
Yeah, I know what you are saying. I understand that our doubtful views on the Wii can easily be arguable with the Wii followers. But to personally insult each other over it?
People, whether you love the name or hate the name, it's just that, the name of a console. It isn't the fate of the universe. It isn't the destiny of a name.s It's the name of a console. True, a lot of us have a lot of sentimental value towards them, but it isn't big enough to start a flame war over it.
The Wii followers have stated some very good points as to why the Wii name could work. The Wii doubters have also posted some very good points as to why the Wii might not work. So why the need to keep throwing mud at each other?
What it will do is degrade the argument to the typical online fanboy argument, and we have enough of those already as it is...
Post by: Requiem of Darcness on May 03, 2006, 08:04:03 PM
Post by: The Omen on May 03, 2006, 08:11:24 PM
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What I don't understand is how no one else sees the pattern. Everyone hated the Wii controller because it was just so radical and different, until Nintendo explained it.
The reaction to the revmote was not intense hatred...it was a mixed reaction, mixed between 'this is cool', and 'wtf?'. Very different.
I could thank Rick for the article, but I won't(even though I agree). He said what everyone who doesn't like the name has tried to explain in the forums, only to get personally attacked. I find it disgusting that people will read Ricks opinion and be much more tolerant of it just because he runs the site.
Post by: 18 Days on May 03, 2006, 08:13:01 PM
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The people Nintendo wants to reach with the console will not be caught dead walking into a store and asking for “Wii" within earshot of friends.
Nintendo is aiming at the eight year old boys market? I thought they already had this one.
Pathetic editorial, Rick should drop his hate or leave forever.
Post by: The Omen on May 03, 2006, 08:16:52 PM
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The people Nintendo wants to reach with the console will not be caught dead walking into a store and asking for “Wii" within earshot of friends.
Nintendo is aiming at the eight year old boys market? I thought they already had this one.
Pathetic editorial, Rick should drop his hate or leave forever.
Another winner!
Post by: RickPowers on May 03, 2006, 08:20:34 PM
Post by: Kairon on May 03, 2006, 08:21:49 PM
All those aspects I actually appreciate. I love how the name can be used in language and how it can be played with. And I would like to point out that whereas Revolution uses a complex "r" sound (that I.. have a speech deficiency for...), the W sound in Wii is one of the simpler and earlier sounds humans learn (hence why, after mama and dada, the next thing of importance to name is what happens in baby's diaper). And for all this fear of whether people will pick this up, non-gamers need something significant to catch their attention long enough to have them try the console, and when the entire market has embraced names like tivo and pooh by now, I don't think any negative impacts will truly last.
But if there's any criticism of the name that I cannot deny, it is the double "i." I do agree that breaking the rules of english pronounciation might throw people into too much confusion for them to move beyond that stage, lol.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: 18 Days on May 03, 2006, 08:29:22 PM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on May 03, 2006, 08:42:48 PM
Post by: trip1eX on May 03, 2006, 08:43:16 PM
YOu mention Google does fun things with their name, but you haven't given Wii a chance to do that yet. The little teaser video did a kewl thing, but this is ground zero for the name.
I don't remember anyone being around when the names of the other products were announced? Luckily those other companies you mentioned never had to release the name 6 months before their product was on the shelf. You have to give the name some time. E3 is going to make or break the console for the gaming media. Not the name. The marketing hasn't even started.
Also you're comparing Wii to two very successful names in Tivo and Google. Names that have been around for years. Those names didn't mean anything when they were launched. The product made the name not the other way around.
YOu also say the Wii name can't be a verb. Well let me know what console name has ever become a verb. None that I know of. WE never said let's Genesis that. Let's 360 this game. Or let's NES this game. WE've never said any of that. So that's a dumb argument as well.
I don't mind the name. It looks kewl. The console looks kewl. The controller looks kewl. Come E3 we'll have a better idea if everything is outta this world too.
Post by: Arbok on May 03, 2006, 08:46:29 PM
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Originally posted by: 18 Days
Rick what you have to understand is that crap senses of humour and toilet humour beyond age 10 is exclusive to gamers. New gamers could not give a damn.
Please tell me what country this applies to, as it sure doesn't seem to fit with the US. Have you seen the type of PG-13 comedies that have been doing well at the box office since the turn of the century? Are these people mature? No. Are they all under 10 and/or gamers? Hardly.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 03, 2006, 08:49:13 PM
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Originally posted by: Kairon
And I would like to point out that whereas Revolution uses a complex "r" sound (that I.. have a speech deficiency for...), the W sound in Wii is one of the simpler and earlier sounds humans learn (hence why, after mama and dada, the next thing of importance to name is what happens in baby's diaper).
The "w" sound is hardly universal. Russians find it nearly impossible to say, for instance, and I'm sure other Slavic peoples share the difficulty. Meanwhile, many people I know from India and Pakistan say the "w" sound instead of the "v" sound, so it could cause confusion for them too.
Post by: mantidor on May 03, 2006, 09:09:11 PM
Post by: VideoGamerJ on May 03, 2006, 09:12:43 PM
Post by: SgtShiversBen on May 03, 2006, 09:22:59 PM
All platforms now have the "ee" sounding now. Nintendo's not the oddball anymore. Although, I don't think people are going to say "I would like a Microsoft GameBox now" or a "Playstation 360" when asking for a Wii. it's pretty simple.
Although I was a big advocator against the name in the early stages, after telling a couple of my friends about it, the strange conundrum from the name entirely dissappeared altogether. Saying Wii in public isn't any different than saying iPod or Debbie Does Dallas anymore. It's part of our ever growing vocabulary.
Just like "doh" is now one too.
Post by: Guitar Smasher on May 03, 2006, 09:23:46 PM
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Originally posted by: 18 DaysQuote
The people Nintendo wants to reach with the console will not be caught dead walking into a store and asking for “Wii" within earshot of friends.
Nintendo is aiming at the eight year old boys market? I thought they already had this one.
Pathetic editorial, Rick should drop his hate or leave forever.
And you've just demonstrated how you're more immature than these eight year olds.
Post by: Kairon on May 03, 2006, 09:37:10 PM
*ahem*
Perhaps if they stuck with the revolution I may get enough practice to start pronouncing "r" right. Darn.
Either way, I think that most of the criticisms of the word don't reveal any new arguments, just retread the same gamer-culture confusion. And while valid, those concerns won't be proven or disproven until we can fully apply hindsight to it.
Do I like the name? No. Then again, I haven't liked any name for any videogame system... except the Jaguar. Umm....nvm...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Mario on May 03, 2006, 09:44:49 PM
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For all of the wonderful things that the name is supposed to evoke, you lose all of them as soon as you have to explain them.
Why the **** do you need an explanation? There are thousands of names that nobody asked for an explanation for.
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The people Nintendo wants to reach with the console will not be caught dead walking into a store and asking for “Wii" within earshot of friends.
Non gamers.
Casual gamers.
Different groups.
Overall it sounds like a horrible editorial from a fanboy with his head stuck in his Nintendo sandbox, and one I wouldn't expect from my favourite website. Get some perspective
Post by: Shin Gallon on May 03, 2006, 09:48:33 PM
In other news, the name "Wii" is still terrible. I still (and will continue to) call the system the Revolution.
Post by: The Omen on May 03, 2006, 09:51:18 PM
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Overall it sounds like a horrible editorial from a fanboy with his head stuck in his Nintendo sandbox, and one I wouldn't expect from my favourite website. Get some perspective
Yeah, and he's a fanboy....
Look how mad you are. It's as if you personally are being attacked, and you become defensive and return attack in kind. Problem is, nobody is attacking you, which means you're pretty much acting like a loud, raucous, fanboy baby.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 03, 2006, 09:53:41 PM
And molikkle is a modified version of molecule. It's still a nonsense word.
Wii is an altered version of we. Still a nonsense word.
Your point?
Post by: Mario on May 03, 2006, 10:00:52 PM
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Originally posted by: The OmenQuote
Overall it sounds like a horrible editorial from a fanboy with his head stuck in his Nintendo sandbox, and one I wouldn't expect from my favourite website. Get some perspective
Yeah, and he's a fanboy....
Look how mad you are. It's as if you personally are being attacked, and you become defensive and return attack in kind. Problem is, nobody is attacking you, which means you're pretty much acting like a loud, raucous, fanboy baby.
Yep, I went over the edge. I'm decided i'm not going to make one more post regarding the name, i'm sick of all the valid points being ignored. Over and over. I've been rash and accepting towards others views on it, but when the forum bitching translated to an editorial on the main site, it's gone too far. Have fun whining!
Post by: IceCold on May 03, 2006, 10:14:16 PM
Post by: Kairon on May 03, 2006, 10:15:25 PM
Hopefully, anyone who's going to ever take a risk on something that isn't proven 100% beforehand realizes that. For example, focus groups hated playing Mario Bros. on the NES, retailers didn't want to stock the system, and videogames were a cultural faux pas in america at the time. There are, of course, many more failures than successes when undertaking such risks, but the point is that if you don't try something new and daring and perhaps even untested, you'll never be able to expand, innovate, challenge, or redefine anything.
As a Nintendo fan, I take it that Nintendo isn't that kind of company. Satoru Iwata said that Nintendo doesn't want to be seen as a company that avoids risk. They want to be seen as a company that is willing to take risks. That'd the company I believe in, one that challenges me to grow and learn and be some place I've never been before. This is the company that made vines grow out of invisible blocks, that made controllers shake in my hands, has me doing 100 simple math problems in quick succession, and that has kept me feeling young and alive all my 22 years.
They're not perfect, they never were. But I don't ask them to be perfect. I ask them to to take risks, and show me something new that I've never seen before.
That's the sort of company I believe Nintendo to be. And that's why the name makes sense to me: it's a risk, it has negatives and positives, things i dig (like the playfulness, the oddity of it) and things i think are clunky (the pronounciation-breaking double - ii, the lack of any hard sounds whatsoever), but it's a chance to look at the world around me in a completely new light.
Nintendo's taking a risk at something new, and I think that's a good thing in any Nintendo fan's book.
You think Nintendo is in danger, but, crisis and opportunity are after all inextricably intertwined. And what greater crisis than Nintendo's current predicament? What greater opportunity than Wii?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Berto2K on May 03, 2006, 10:15:51 PM
Then later that night I showed another coworker who hasn't played games in years (goes to school for art like drawing, design, etc.) the trailer that was released and he thought it was cool. He could see some interesting things that could be done from a marketing standpoint.
Opinions are going to vary A LOT from all camps. I don't personally like the name either...Nintendo has a lot to prove to lots of people. But from a marketing stance there are lots of opportunities.
Post by: BigJim on May 03, 2006, 10:16:29 PM
I understand what Nintendo tried to achieve with the name, they just failed on execution.
When I first saw the "Wii" name, I didn't immediately think of penis or piss jokes. I simply thought "WTF, that sounds stupid." The negative connotations seem to just be the low-hanging fruit of many name haters as a means to dismiss it. Not unlike the other easy excuses Nintendo has given people to dismiss them.... the purple lunchbox, a handle, k!ddy games, etc.
They should just go back to the drawing board and pick something better if "Revolution" is too "hardcore" for their newfound taste in the mainstream.
What I find odd about this mainstream desire of theirs is that you can look at the sales of any of their "non-game" products and you'd still see that the majority of buyers were GAMERS. They use the improved sales as some sort of proof of concept to then TARGET the non-gamers when they're merely a minority portion of the sales.
Let's make a bunch of cheap-ass garage games and run all the way to the bank!
Anyway, they just better remember who their base is. Piles of non-games and occasional epics is not going to fly with many of them (and they're dwindling as it is). A silly name like that does them no favors either.
God bless Nintendo, though. There's no other love/hate relationship like it. They can capture your imagination with fantastic epics like Zelda on one hand, and piss you off with the other by taping "Kick Me" signs to their own backs.
Post by: wandering on May 03, 2006, 10:22:51 PM
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Those “mainstream gamers" that Nintendo is trying to bring under their wing will not be caught dead “playing Wii". They are far more image-conscious, and what’s baffling is that Nintendo knows this. Game Boy Micro was the device designed for exactly this segment.
I find this ironic considering the name "Game Boy Micro." You can just as easily say "Run along little boy and play with your micro-sized 'game!'" as you can make fun of Wii. Who's to say mainstream gamers won't be caught dead with Wii? Have you actually talked with people that've said they won't be buying one because of the name? Personally, I think, after a massive advertising campaign, mainstream gamers won't care about the name at all.
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Dropping the Nintendo brand from the product gives them no alternative name to request. To use poker terminology, they’ve been left with no “outs", not even an acronym or abbreviation.
The lack of abbreviation is very deliberate. They want to remove barriers to non-gamers, and one of many barriers is the use of code-words among the gaming elite. It's hard enough to keep your playstations and xboxes straight, much less a seperate set of abbreviations.
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The intended meanings behind the name are unclear and need explanation that many will simply not bother to learn.
It doesn't require much explanation, though. "Together, Wii will change everything" explains everything you need to know about the name, and I'm sure something similiar will appear in all advertisements.
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We haven’t even gotten to the place where the TiVo and Google brands truly excel, and where Wii falls completely flat. Those names achieved the holy grail; they became verbs. Even on other recording devices, people now say that they “TiVo’ed" a program; when you search for information on the internet, you Google it, even if you’re not using Google as your search engine. Wii can’t become a verb without becoming “Wii’d", which brings up entirely different negative connotations and joke potential.
I keep hearing reasons why Wii is fatally different than names like 'iPod' and 'Tivo', and I keep thinking they're weak. As to this particular one: who cares if it can't be turned into a verb? Are you saying that's one of the big reasons those products took off?
Personally, I think Wii is a good name. It's short, easy to remember, unique, intriguing, and a relatively blank slate. Yes, it has stumbling blocks: it's a little silly, a little hard to pronounce. But, in my experience, a lot of successful product names are like that (look at the name in my avatar.) Once the name becomes synonymous with the system, and a regular part of everyone's vocabulary, I think we'll look back at our initial reaction and wonder what we thought the big deal was.
Post by: Kairon on May 03, 2006, 10:28:09 PM
It's just that now they've finally got a control system that they feel has a chance of really driving this point home. They feel like they can finally make a stand and reset the entire videogame field to zero when it was just about fun and it wasn't defined and segmented and franchised and a business science. And they're willing to shoot for that goal because they believe in a vision of videogames that's slowly disappearing.
Now, as for the name, what most people think are negatives I think are positives, but I also have a few negative opinions on it of my own. But the only actual name I ever DID like was Jaguar...so...yeah...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on May 03, 2006, 10:30:30 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Arbok on May 03, 2006, 10:31:20 PM
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Originally posted by: wandering
I find this ironic considering the name "Game Boy Micro." You can just as easily say "Run along little boy and play with your micro-sized 'game!'" as you can make fun of Wii.
The big difference is that most non-gamers, and most gamers in casual conversation for that matter, would never call it a "Game Boy Micro". They will simply call it a "Game Boy", much in the same sense that iPod Nano users will never call the system by its full name, unless asked what model that is. So, it's a non-issue in the case of the Micro.
Post by: wandering on May 03, 2006, 10:37:57 PM
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Oh snap! Is Wawa an .....airline?
Convience store. You'd think college students wouldn't want to be caught dead in a place called Wawa, but you'd be mistaken.
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They will simply call it a "Game Boy", much in the same sense that iPod Nano users will never call the system by its full name, unless asked what model that is. So, it's a non-issue in the case of the Micro.
What, and the name 'Game boy' isn't silly?
Post by: Kairon on May 03, 2006, 10:38:25 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Arbok on May 03, 2006, 10:49:34 PM
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Originally posted by: wandering
What, and the name 'Game boy' isn't silly?
Never said it wasn't, but then it had the luxury of being pretty much the first serious handheld system, and without any direct competitors, while then reaching a level of success where it is now been ingrained into our culture.
Post by: Kairon on May 03, 2006, 10:53:24 PM
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Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: wandering
What, and the name 'Game boy' isn't silly?
Never said it wasn't, but then it had the luxury of being pretty much the first serious handheld system, and without any direct competitors, while then reaching a level of success where it is now been ingrained into our culture.
Let's not get into this please.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Arbok on May 03, 2006, 10:57:23 PM
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Originally posted by: Kairon
Let's not get into this please.
That came out the same year as the Gameboy? Well I will be damned... I thought I started seeing commercails for that way after, seems I was wrong.
Post by: ruby_onix on May 03, 2006, 11:08:17 PM
BTW, as for my own opinions on "Wii", they haven't softened at all. But I'm avoiding talking about it because I don't want to upset anyone and I've already said my piece.
Some vague things I do want to adress though...
The argument that non-gamers don't have a problem with the name. That's because Nintendo is completely irrelevant to them. It's not a plus.
The argument that it will be accepted if they put out a billion ads/sell a billion units. That's true of anything.
The argument that N-fans are immature and flip out over nothing. Not something that we should really be pointing out, and not a factor anyways, seeing how "Wii" became the joke of the entire industry, not just Nintendo fansites.
The fact that the Rev will still has games in the pipeline that won't be canned by the name change, and those games (and future ones) may in fact be revolutionary. True. But Nintendo may well be building themselves an image problem here that'll be even bigger than the one that plagued the GameCube. Tell me that won't affect future development decisions. The stylish Revolution was doing a very good job of deflecting criticism (assuming Nintendo were to unveil a price that compensated for it's apparent hardware weakness, and the Revmote delivered).
Post by: Kairon on May 03, 2006, 11:13:12 PM
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Originally posted by: ruby_onixThe argument that non-gamers don't have a problem with the name. That's because Nintendo is completely irrelevant to them. It's not a plus.
If Nintendo's completely irrelevant to non-gamers, then a name like "Revolution" or "GameCube" won't have any effect on them to begin with. I don't think that non-gamers will be able to "glaze over" a name like Wii as easily though. I think it's a tentative plus at this point.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 03, 2006, 11:43:43 PM
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Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Originally posted by: The OmenQuote
Overall it sounds like a horrible editorial from a fanboy with his head stuck in his Nintendo sandbox, and one I wouldn't expect from my favourite website. Get some perspective
Yeah, and he's a fanboy....
Look how mad you are. It's as if you personally are being attacked, and you become defensive and return attack in kind. Problem is, nobody is attacking you, which means you're pretty much acting like a loud, raucous, fanboy baby.
Yep, I went over the edge. I'm decided i'm not going to make one more post regarding the name, i'm sick of all the valid points being ignored. Over and over. I've been rash and accepting towards others views on it, but when the forum bitching translated to an editorial on the main site, it's gone too far. Have fun whining!
I agree with you Mario, I have given up as well on defending it. Since I feel the supporters will be justified in the end, there is no need to hammer anymore points. Like I told Omen before, the reason why some of us get "defensive" is because we feel this discussion has potential to harm the Wii and has really no constructive value. It is like some bully picking on a kid for being different, and you stick up for that kid, you aren't defending yourself but defending him/her. And since I feel Nintendo is being unfairly "picked" on by knee jerk reaction fans, I feel the need to defend them since Nintendo is not given the benefit of the doubt. With all that said, the editorial was well done, though I do feel it was flawed (which others have pointed out). Even at that it was better than 90% of the other complaints against the name.
Post by: 18 Days on May 04, 2006, 12:17:47 AM
Post by: Kairon on May 04, 2006, 12:25:41 AM
Seriously, this is idiotic. Both sides have appealing arguments, but with something this unprecedented, they're all just speculation until 20/20 hindisght comes into the equation. Until then, all you can do is either believe in Nintendo, or you can think they're a very odd company, or you can think they're positively loony.
And as a Nintendo fan, it's perfectly fine to think any of the three.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on May 04, 2006, 12:30:15 AM
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The argument that it will be accepted if they put out a billion ads/sell a billion units. That's true of anything.
Including iPod, as it turns out.
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The argument that N-fans are immature and flip out over nothing. Not something that we should really be pointing out, and not a factor anyways, seeing how "Wii" became the joke of the entire industry, not just Nintendo fansites.
But how prevalent do you think wee-wee jokes will really be in 6 months? I'm going to guess not very.
Post by: Bloodworth on May 04, 2006, 12:35:43 AM
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Rick what you have to understand is that crap senses of humour and toilet humour beyond age 10 is exclusive to gamers. New gamers could not give a damn.
That's exactly the problem though, people hear it and think it sounds childish.
Most of my friends are in their 20s and 30s and don't play video games, and they take about two minutes to start making Wii jokes. -And again it's not so much that they're trying to make jokes. They're simply putting the word into the context of a sentence, realize what it sounds like, and laugh at the implications.
Post by: Kairon on May 04, 2006, 12:40:55 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Arbok on May 04, 2006, 01:06:22 AM
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Originally posted by: VGrevolution
...the reason why some of us get "defensive" is because we feel this discussion has potential to harm the Wii and has really no constructive value. It is like some bully picking on a kid for being different, and you stick up for that kid, you aren't defending yourself but defending him/her. And since I feel Nintendo is being unfairly "picked" on by knee jerk reaction fans, I feel the need to defend them since Nintendo is not given the benefit of the doubt.
You are preaching to the choir then. Everyone here is going to buy the system, regardless of how they might feel about the name. We might argue a lot about this aspect, but it's not changing the fact that we will all get it, it's simply us speaking in regards to how we feel this could effect them as a whole and really nothing much more.
If you're mission was truly set at trying to swat away "potential harm" to the system, then you would probably be better off going to a non-Nintendo based board and trying to respond to the cristscm being leveled at the name there, where it could actually chase away the overly self conscious who might be reading it.
Post by: Kairon on May 04, 2006, 01:09:12 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 04, 2006, 01:56:27 AM
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Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
...the reason why some of us get "defensive" is because we feel this discussion has potential to harm the Wii and has really no constructive value. It is like some bully picking on a kid for being different, and you stick up for that kid, you aren't defending yourself but defending him/her. And since I feel Nintendo is being unfairly "picked" on by knee jerk reaction fans, I feel the need to defend them since Nintendo is not given the benefit of the doubt.
You are preaching to the choir then. Everyone here is going to buy the system, regardless of how they might feel about the name. We might argue a lot about this aspect, but it's not changing the fact that we will all get it, it's simply us speaking in regards to how we feel this could effect them as a whole and really nothing much more.
If you're mission was truly set at trying to swat away "potential harm" to the system, then you would probably be better off going to a non-Nintendo based board and trying to respond to the cristscm being leveled at the name there, where it could actually chase away the overly self conscious who might be reading it.
Ah but those closest to the system are the Nintendo fans, and they will be a key factor is spreading the word. If Nintendo fans are mocking, and whining about the name, that will help the animosity towards the system spread more so than those that already are anti-Nintendo or indifferent. That is why I believe the "fans" whining is going to possibly do more harm than good, more so than even the non-Nintendo people could ever dream of doing.
Post by: Talon on May 04, 2006, 03:02:33 AM
The day after Nintendo released the official name of the Revolution there was an article in the Herald Sun (National Australian News Paper) about it, which is a really big thing here considering it wasnt in the technology lift-out they have on wednesdays.
Nintendo is going into E3 at full speed and is going to piss all over SONY and MICROSOFT. Besides FFXII there is no other game on any Sony or Microsoft platform im actually looking forward to. Dare I say it but the WII is starting to overshadow Zelda.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 04, 2006, 04:43:47 AM
In any language with rules for writing phonetics (that means "anything but English") Wii is indeed spoken as it is written. Don't blame Nintendo for your broken language.
For all of the wonderful things that the name is supposed to evoke, you lose all of them as soon as you have to explain them. The mere fact that Nintendo needed to explain the name to its most ardent fans is a sign that the decision needed more refinement.
Explain? Why? It's a meaningless word, just like TiVo or iPod (neither of which evokes anything and neither of which had a meaning before tons of ads hammered it into people's minds). Google is an exception, it's a misspelling of googol (10^100) but few people probably know about googol, either. When I heard of the name I didn't think of any conotations except that it doesn't sound like electronics.
Wii sounds small. Wii sounds undefined but enough ads will define it. Wii sounds no more idiotic than XBox 360 or Revolution. Revolution is understood almost everywhere except people will look at you like you're nuts if you try to sell them something called Revolution. What does Revolution evoke? Communist revolution. Anarchy. Violence. War. Dictatorship. Wii sounds cute, Revolution sounds brutal. While brutal may work for advertising to the insecure teens what kind of adult would think of that as a good idea? The Wii may have a shining exterior but there's still Nintendo inside and Nintendo delivers only cute.
The casual gamers you talk about are at best those who play GTA, not the demographic Nintendo is aiming for (which is PopCap Games's demographic). The GTA and Madden casuals are content with gaming as it is, they don't need any revolutions. The people Nintendo wants are the ones who don't like gamin in its corrent form.
Something else to keep in mind is that those "real" casuals are more easily confused. My father can't tell the Xbox, Playstation and Gamecube apart. Wii is a short name and easily memorized. Noone will try to buy a game for the Wii and be confused "was my console called a Box, a Station or a Wii?".
They should just give it a different name in the US like Sega did with the Mega Drive (the Famicom and SFC were renamed for Europe as well, the Mega Drive wasn't).
Post by: Wesisapie on May 04, 2006, 05:15:31 AM
i dont know whats going to happen. personally, i think its ok. but i now that the west wont like it. like rick said, they have done everything right for it, and now, it seems like they are committing suicide with the name. why? is there a traitor amidst nintendos upper ranks? thats all i can imagine... i guess the best we can hope for is a new name for everywhere except japan. that way, nintendo can save face by keeping the name somewhere, not admitting that it was terrible, and giving it a decent name everywhere else. "face" is very important in japan.. they wont drop the name completely, because that would be admitting the name sucked. and that would be shameful.
edit: a few points... people keep using ipod as an argument for wii. when i saw ipod, i thougt it sounded regular, perhaps even somewhat cool. ipod is not wii. i dont have an ipod and i think its a stupid craze, but the name was NO WAY as stupid as wii. i never thought that ever, even years ago. personally i have no problem with wii. but everybody else will and im wondering why nintendo is doing this... why... whyyy..... but then again, the japanese have always been very insular.
Post by: Rhoq on May 04, 2006, 05:18:58 AM
Post by: Caliban on May 04, 2006, 06:20:24 AM
Post by: BigJim on May 04, 2006, 06:33:42 AM
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Originally posted by: Kairon
I don't find their non-gamer strategy strange. They've, really, technically ALWAYS been about the non-gamer, with "fun" as their goal, not "cool." Miyamoto's made games about gardening, for chrissakes! He uses examples from his non-gaming childhood as inspirations for Mario and Zelda! His emphasis is on how something feels in your hand, not how it looks on the screen! And he's been trained as an artist first and foremost, not as anything remotely gamer-like!
I don't really subscribe to this. I don't deny that fun is their basic goal, but if they were always about the non-gamer then the "blue ocean" they're sailing is just a pond because it's been drying up for 15 years.
They're after something bigger than what they have. But those are going to be some rough waters; they're trying to turn it to wine.
Post by: RickPowers on May 04, 2006, 06:38:04 AM
Then Nintendo names the console "Wii", again citing market disruption. Problem is, the only thing the name is disrupting is my ability to drink milk without aspirating it through my nostrils, or the ability for the mainstream to be willing to risk picking up the controller for the first time. It's become clear that Nintendo really doesn't know what a "disruptive technology" is about, if they think that the name is part of it. I have to agree wholeheartedly that while the name isn't the end of the world, it's a handicap. I just don't see how becoming an object of ridicule is supposed to be disruptive to anyone but themselves.
All of a sudden, the brilliant moves Nintendo has made over the past year or so seem to be falling apart. First the name issue, then that ridiculous picture of the kid playing Rayman that they let Ubisoft release. Revolution went from being the console that everyone had the highest hopes for, to being the one where everyone is talking about the name and not the games. For Nintendo, that's such a drastic change in strategy, I'm not sure what it's supposed to accomplish.
Post by: Kairon on May 04, 2006, 06:56:39 AM
I agree that I'm actually still off-balance about the name. Obviously Nintendo wanted something that could catch attention. Well Nintendo, "Mission accomplished."
... aaaaand the ball's back in your court Nintendo, where do you want to go with this? We're all waiting with bated breath.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Edit: What's wrong with the french Ubisoft kids? We had tons of french Ubisoft adults already, so it's not like they're the first people we've seen with the controller...
Post by: Infernal Monkey on May 04, 2006, 06:59:02 AM
Post by: NotRimmer on May 04, 2006, 07:15:25 AM
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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Wii sounds small. Wii sounds undefined but enough ads will define it. Wii sounds no more idiotic than XBox 360 or Revolution. Revolution is understood almost everywhere except people will look at you like you're nuts if you try to sell them something called Revolution. What does Revolution evoke? Communist revolution. Anarchy. Violence. War. Dictatorship. Wii sounds cute, Revolution sounds brutal. While brutal may work for advertising to the insecure teens what kind of adult would think of that as a good idea? The Wii may have a shining exterior but there's still Nintendo inside and Nintendo delivers only cute.
Because when I think of the American Revolution, I think of communism, anarchy, and dictatorship.
Also, Dance Dance Revolution never reached any sort of mainstream appeal at all because everyone was turned off by the violent, brutal imagery
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 04, 2006, 07:49:00 AM
People, making the system name a joke is going to get publicity, sure, but it's the same publicity as that unfortunate girl in high school someone labeled "queen of the herpes" and the name stuck. It's the type of publicity which means that only the utmost forgiving souls (the Nintendo fans) would allow themselves to be associated with it.
Gamers ARE the most forgiving because they know to expect quality from Nintendo regardless of the name, and even most of them hate it. The non-gamers, the crowd Nintendo wants to market to, DO NOT FEEL THAT WAY. They won't spend the rest of the day trying to get used to the name because they have NO TIES to Nintendo and thus no emotional investment. They'll see the name, laugh, and walk away, probably never touching the controller and certainly not buying one. Who would touch the herpes queen?
This is NOT what Nintendo wants to do for their last chance in the home console market. If Nintendo has any sense at all, they'll change the name before it comes to market, at least in English-speaking countries where the negative connotations are the very worst.
Post by: The Omen on May 04, 2006, 08:09:09 AM
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The argument that it will be accepted if they put out a billion ads/sell a billion units. That's true of anything.
Including iPod, as it turns out.
I never had to ask how Ipod was pronounced. Google either. Tivo could only be one of two things-T-vo, or Tiv-o. Wii isn't even pronouncable, meaning I now have to ask how it's pronounced, and why it's pronounced that way, and what is meant by that. To the supporters of Wii, they say that's great, more interest. To the non-supporters, we think why chance it? They're in no position to assume that everyone asking what the name is will be interested in buying it. They may be more disinterested than ever when they ask "What is the Wii?" and the clerk responds, "The new Nintendo console." That completely obliterates this argument that wii is so simple and different, and that it's a marketing coup-since it will have to be explained ad nauseum, and people will have to be told it's Nintendo anyway, it accomplishes nothing. People who have it in their mind that they think Nintendo is a kids company will be gagging more than ever, and that can't be good for ANY product trying to play down a stereotype.
AGAIN, this is obviously not set in stone. My stance has been, and will remain, Nintendo has disrupted peoples vocabularys, but I don't think it's going to gain that crowd which has been missing since the N64 days. Those who jumped ship to Sony need a reason to come back, and it's hard to find it when they quickly dismiss a product because of the name(and say all you want, they will). Granted, I am assuming that gamers who are not Nintendo fans are a fickle lot. I am assuming that they may not want, or have no great need, to change console allegiance. I am assuming that a lot of casual gamers are graphic whores, and the wii won't measure up there. I am assuming that people need change forced upon them, especially when they're satrisfied with their current systems, and having to spend 10 minutes explaining a name may be a detriment because everyone under 25 has ADD. I'm assuming Nintendo are looked upon as handheld giants, but weak with consoles, and that the majority of gamers will be more turned off by the name than turned on. I am assuming that those who are turned off by the name will give less of a chance to the controller because of it. I am assuming that because of the prior two decisions, they will miss all of those great games I am assured by defenders will draw them in despite the name. If any two of these assumptions are true, then it's a big problem.
I am sure that most here defending Wii are idealists, and Nintendo fans, and I can't fault you for being positive in a deluge of negativity, but sometimes there's something to the opposing side in a debate, and you may want to leave a little wiggle room in your assessments. The wii naysayers have been far less 'disruptive' to the forums than the defenders and I find it disheartening that when a valid point(which doen't mean it's a correct one, mind you) is brought to the forefront, it is sh*t upon because of the backlash of the built in defense mechanism of everything Nintendo. Please keep in mind we all want the same thing in the end, and healthy debate is good, not bad. And those who complain about whining...MARIO...read your own damn posts. THAT is whining. Venting over a name I dislike and sparking debate over it is not. Leaving the forums in a huff over the ditorial, and opposing opinions is a move only a ten year old would pull.
But hey, this editorial must be right up your alley-it sparks conversation about wii, so how could it be bad, right? Right?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 04, 2006, 08:14:15 AM
Plus those of us who hate it, hated it immediately and we could instantly give some reason why we did. Those that liked it had to think about it for a few days or they didn't have any defense until Nintendo themselves gave them one with their "Tivo and Google" canned responses. If the name requires someone to think about it for a few days and intentionally want to like it in order to not be turned off then the name sucks.
Now hypothetically lets assume that non-gamers do like the name. I don't think they will but that's an arguement being used so I'll go with to make my point. Why does Nintendo have to turn gamers off in order to have a name that attracts non-gamers? I thought the whole plan was to expand beyond gamers, not turn gamers away for the new audience. All those Playstation and Xbox gamers that think "Wii" is a childish baby name and will continue to assume Nintendo is for kids? Why should Nintendo INTENTIONALLY drive them away? Would it not make the most sense for Nintendo to go with a name that their fans like, that gamers that don't really like Nintendo would accept, and that non-gamers would like?
All those people who were turned off by Nintendo's purple lunchbox are going to be turned off again. Nintendo is limiting themselves to the Nintendo fanbase and non-gamers and nothing else. If anything they are RELYING on non-gamers entirely with this name. If the blue ocean strategy doesn't work they can't fall back to just being a gamer's console because they're stupidly turning those people away. It's a shame because they've got the innovation and the virtual console and even have a pretty cool looking console (which looked pretty sharp with the "Revolution" name attached to it) but all those Madden and Halo gamers aren't going to give them a second look because of "Wii".
And personally I don't think the American public will be interested in a name that sounds so wimpy and childish. You can talk about Google or iPod but none of those sound like a Fisher Price product.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 04, 2006, 08:27:27 AM
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Now hypothetically lets assume that non-gamers do like the name. I don't think they will but that's an arguement being used so I'll go with to make my point. Why does Nintendo have to turn gamers off in order to have a name that attracts non-gamers? I thought the whole plan was to expand beyond gamers, not turn gamers away for the new audience. All those Playstation and Xbox gamers that think "Wii" is a childish baby name and will continue to assume Nintendo is for kids? Why should Nintendo INTENTIONALLY drive them away? Would it not make the most sense for Nintendo to go with a name that their fans like, that gamers that don't really like Nintendo would accept, and that non-gamers would like?
It's almost like arrogance on the part of Nintendo. They think that non-gamers will like the console SO much that they don't even NEED gamers anymore. Anyone with even a smattering of market understanding can tell you that Nintendo CANNOT afford to be making those kinds of gambles.
Maybe they have a big head because of the DS's success, but I just can't help but think that I'm being an idiot when I say, "Maybe the name could work out after all..." It's going to be dismissed, ridiculed and/or laughed at by the very people Nintendo is claiming they intend to market to in the first place.
The US public is not like the Japanese public. They're nowhere near as gadget-happy as the Japanese and they won't buy a gaming console because it's "trendy". The iPod replaced walkmans and discmans, a market which had already been established for years prior and even the iPod took 2-3 years to reach its current popularity. Nintendo aims to get people who have never bought a console before to buy THEIRS, even though Sony and MS outpower them in marketing tenfold and anyone who remembers Nintendo likely remember them as a console for children, and the "wee" name just reaffirms that. When they hear it's pronounced "wee", they'll likely expect the system to be flooded with games like "Dora the Explorer" and edutainment games, assume that, since they're older, they shouldn't bother with it, and won't buy the thing.
And on the subject of Fisher Price toys...
Post by: KDR_11k on May 04, 2006, 09:08:52 AM
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Originally posted by: The Omen
Wii isn't even pronouncable
W, long I. Where's the problem with that? It's pronounced just the way it's written.
Post by: RickPowers on May 04, 2006, 09:09:35 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 04, 2006, 09:14:58 AM
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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
W, long I. Where's the problem with that? It's pronounced just the way it's written.
Actually, a short "i" is the "i" used in words like "it" and "is". A long "i" is the "i" in words like "wire" "fire" and "liar".
So, no, it's not pronounced how it's written, not in most English words anyway. The "i" sound is pronounced like "ee" in Japanese, though.
The only people who will know how to pronounce it are those who recall the word "skiing", which has the distinct "ee" sound. Those people will be few and far between, however.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 04, 2006, 09:43:49 AM
By the way, I think you should rename the girl in your sig to "Brian". Unless that stands for Brianrietta.
Post by: The Omen on May 04, 2006, 09:51:49 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
Wii isn't even pronouncable
W, long I. Where's the problem with that? It's pronounced just the way it's written.
It sounds just the way it's written only after you're told how it sounds(and barely at that), not upon first encountering Wii. Most newbies won't be working from hindsight like you.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 04, 2006, 10:22:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen Most newbies won't be working from hindsight like you.
This is the biggest issue the Wii has going against it. Getting people to accept the name will be nigh-impossible unless they have piles of information on it beforehand and have a reason to forgive it.
If the name turns them off right at the start, the chance of them finding a reason to care is nil.
Post by: Arbok on May 04, 2006, 10:58:43 AM
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Originally posted by: RickPowers
Holy crap ... when did Ian Sane start making so much sense? Maybe I need to take another long nap and wait for things to normalize again.
I noticed that as well, it's like that whole non-gamer crap he was spewing before that didn't make much sense, considering that Nintendo still was going to make "epic games"... yet it all seems to be falling into place with this name. How it's being aimed at the non-gamers while also has the chance to chase away some of those who already actively buy video games.
Also, awesome sig Smash_Brother
Post by: Kairon on May 04, 2006, 11:02:06 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on May 04, 2006, 01:41:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
And on the subject of Fisher Price toys...
OMG! Wii is such a perfect name for diapers that I cant concieve any other name who better fits, maybe the "wee" jokes got me subconsciously, maybe the baby talk part makes sound "wii" like a perfect choice, whatever it is, the name is simply perfect!
wait, Wawa is better! I hadnt noticed wandering's avatar but Im seen it right beneath the create post window, so it caught my attention, I unmistakenly (word? Icecold will let me know
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 04, 2006, 05:49:47 PM
I know that quite possibly some of the best games I will see in my life might be revealed there, but the name just hangs over it all like a pall of darkness, one which I fear will doom the console to horrendous NA sales.
I'd like to believe that people would grow up, be mature, etc. about the whole thing, but the grim reality of the situation is that the vast majority of people still have what most reasonable folks would consider the intellect of a child. These people will pick up a PS2 for image alone, and they are the same people who will avoid a product named "wee" like the plague because they falsely believe that their purchasing decisions reflect back upon them.
The ONE thing Nintendo needed to do was pick a name which wouldn't frighten these people: the controller WOULD have sold Revs and sold them fine, but the NAME will actually make these people think twice about owning it, regardless of how good the games are.
Thanks, in regards to the sig, and I changed it to Brian for the HSR reference, but I don't want to borrow too much so I didn't add the "Brianrietta" bit.
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 04, 2006, 06:25:26 PM
I understand doubting how well it'll sell. You have your reasons for suspecting low sales, even if I don't agree with them. But to let that lessen your enjoyment of "some of the best games you will see in your life"... well, there are no words.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 04, 2006, 06:30:23 PM
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Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: RickPowers
Holy crap ... when did Ian Sane start making so much sense? Maybe I need to take another long nap and wait for things to normalize again.
I noticed that as well, it's like that whole non-gamer crap he was spewing before that didn't make much sense, considering that Nintendo still was going to make "epic games"... yet it all seems to be falling into place with this name. How it's being aimed at the non-gamers while also has the chance to chase away some of those who already actively buy video games.
Also, awesome sig Smash_Brother
Actually I would be a bit worried if I was Ian's side on this thing, but that is just me. That would indicate to me that perhaps I am not interpreting things right (which isn't too far fetched for many here)
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 04, 2006, 07:04:39 PM
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Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Okay, look. If you care more about how many people will buy the Wii than how much fun you'll have with it, something is wrong with you.
I understand doubting how well it'll sell. You have your reasons for suspecting low sales, even if I don't agree with them. But to let that lessen your enjoyment of "some of the best games you will see in your life"... well, there are no words.
The reason S_B, as well as many of us, are concerned over this is that the console won't sell because of the name.
Do you know what happens when games and consoles don't sell? The companies that produces them lose money. And what happens when they lose money? They lose third party support and go bankrupt. And what happens if Nintendo fails? We won't be able to play their games ever again.
It may sound overly dramatic, sure, but this is basically Nintendo's last chance to establish itself as a major game brand. The Nintendo name, save for the handheld market, has been losing strenght thanks to stiff competition and stubborn company decisions. If they keep losing that strenght Nintendo might go the way of Sega; selling out their franchises to other companies in order to stay afloat.
I'm not saying that this is what will surely happen. As I said before, no matter how much analyzing we do the only one that can control Nintendo's fate is destiny. Who knows, the Wii idea might be so stupid it could actually work! Or it's so stupid, it could destroy Nintendo forever! We will have to wait and see what Nintendo has planned...
I agree that S_B might be a little passionate about this, but this is Nintendo we are talking about. Can you imagine a future in which no Nintendo games exist because one of their consoles didn't sell as well as expected?
I just don't want the Wii to become the next Dreamcast: Lots of great games, amazing services, lots of potential but no support equals no games equals no more Sega...
And S_B, Nintendo IS being stubborn about this. After all, Kaplan DID say in an interview that the reason they unveiled the name now instead of E3 is because they KNEW that this would cause a backlash and they figured that we would get over it by and accept it by now...
The thing is that it's been a week already and many are still left unconvinced and as we can see in this thread people get into heated arguments over it.
So in a sense, Nintendo's plan backfired...
Spekaing of which, what if Nintendo realizes that the negative reaction is so overwhelming that they decided to change the name before the release. Could that create a backlash by those who defended the Wii name?
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 04, 2006, 07:14:40 PM
Sorry, it would take a lot more than the Wii failing to bankrupt Nintendo. Especially with the DS selling as well as it is.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 04, 2006, 07:28:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN I understand doubting how well it'll sell. You have your reasons for suspecting low sales, even if I don't agree with them. But to let that lessen your enjoyment of "some of the best games you will see in your life"... well, there are no words.
Simply put, I'm worried that it'll be Nintendo's last hurrah instead of their rebirth. It doesn't matter how great I think the games are: if the general populace disagrees, the wii will fail. I've loved things my whole life which have died out, not receiving the mainstream attention they need to remain afloat.
The Rev is the last chance they have in the home console market. It's not even a question of money, it's a question of the MOST money. If the DS pulls in such incredible numbers and cash, I'm certain there are execs at Nintendo who are pulling for Nintendo to abandon the home market and go handheld all the way. After all, focusing your efforts on your most profitable ventures is just common sense.
I don't think Pap is being overdramatic. He's saying that the wii can make or break Nintendo and he's absolutely right.
I hope they change the name in the US and Europe to something else. Let Japan have Wii and let us have something which won't make Nintendo's coveted non-gamer turn up their nose in disgust.
Post by: mantidor on May 04, 2006, 07:37:20 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 04, 2006, 07:39:51 PM
I can't argue with blatant irrationality, man; give me something to work with.
Regardless, I maintain that if that's enough to nullify your enjoyment of the games... if you can't handle the concept of paying money to play games that you think are fun, because of the off chance that, in a parallel universe where Nintendo did what you wanted, there might have been more games... well, I don't know what to say. It hurts just to type out logic that convoluted.
Post by: wandering on May 04, 2006, 07:54:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
If anything they are RELYING on non-gamers entirely with this name. If the blue ocean strategy doesn't work they can't fall back to just being a gamer's console because they're stupidly turning those people away. It's a shame because they've got the innovation and the virtual console and even have a pretty cool looking console (which looked pretty sharp with the "Revolution" name attached to it) but all those Madden and Halo gamers aren't going to give them a second look because of "Wii".
Yes, the Wii will only sell to non-gamers because gamers, in spite of all the positives of the system, won't buy it because of three letters. Gamers will be forced to stick to games named after overweight former football coaches and things that float above angel's heads, because Wii is too much for them to handle. </sarcasm>
Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
Granted, I am assuming that gamers who are not Nintendo fans are a fickle lot.
I am assuming the ability to control a gun with the freehand controller will outweigh any misgivings casual gamers might have about a potentially homosexual name, but we'll see!
Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
I never had to ask how Ipod was pronounced.
Yeah, this is a valid point. But everyone will know how to pronounce 'Wii' by the end of the year.
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
They won't spend the rest of the day trying to get used to the name because they have NO TIES to Nintendo and thus no emotional investment. They'll see the name, laugh, and walk away, probably never touching the controller and certainly not buying one.
I know what you mean. I almost asked this gorgeous girl out on a date, but when I heard her name, I shook my head, laughed, and walked away...never touching her and certainly never buying her dinner. </sarcasm>
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Do you know what happens when games and consoles don't sell? The companies that produces them lose money. And what happens when they lose money? They lose third party support and go bankrupt. And what happens if Nintendo fails? We won't be able to play their games ever again.
When historian's look back on the great fall of Nitnendo, they'll shake their heads and sigh. "If only they had named their fifth console Revolution instead of Wii!" </sarcasm>
...
I think both Wii supporters and Wii detractors agree that it all comes down to marketing. 'Wii' needs context. I think providing that context won't be that hard - you've got your playful i's, you've got your ready-made taglines. But until Nintendo actually shows us how they plan to market the name...which will hopefully happen, as they say, at E3...it's even more impossible than normal to predict how the general public will react to the name.
Personally, I doubt it will have much of a negative effect (having a short, quirky name idoesn't strike me as being as bad as coloring your console purple.) In fact, there's a faint chance that it may become cool, just for being so ridiculous (wishful thinking). But we'll see!
edit: sarcasm tags.
Post by: wandering on May 04, 2006, 07:58:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mantidor
The problem is that I find myself in the scenario when I actually want this console to fail because of the name, because Ive never been so disgusted in my life. I don't know if it will happen, given the console's features I actually doubt it will happen, but I want it to happen, that makes my stomach revolt.
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I'm almost ashamed to admit this, but the name actually killed my enthusiasm for E3.
What the hell is wrong with you people?
Post by: Strell on May 04, 2006, 09:00:58 PM
If you are a big enough whiner that you want the Wii to fail or are no longer interested in it, I will send you ten bucks if you swear to never buy or play one.
It would be money well spent.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 04, 2006, 09:40:08 PM
It's OK if you guys agree with the name, like the name and disagree with what we think. But when you openly question our reasons for not agreeing with the name and make allusions to our sanity in general, I can't help but feel a little disgusted by it.
In all honesty, I think most of you that support the name have a faith in Nintendo so grand that you don't want to hear any negative comments or general opinion.
This is almost like when you have great faith in God and an atheist comes to you and say "there's no God. All Churches lie to you. The bible is a fake". Your faith in God is so big that you cast aside everything that person says, wether what they say is right or wrong.
They could be telling you the biggest truth there is and you still cast it aside. Why? Because people just don't want to hear it. They want to believe that what they have faith in is right and is the absolute truth in life, even when it's clearly obvious it isn't.
This is what is happening right now with Nintendo. True, some of you have valid points as to why the name works, but from what I've seen it's all mostly blind faith in them and you don't WANT to hear what we have to say.
Want proof of this? Rick Powers' editorial. He presented his views as to why the name might not work in a smart, coherent, calm, cool and collected manner. Yet a great deal of you have bashed him and argued his opinion down, even when he offers some really damn good points! And why? Because comments like this goes against what you believe in!
Are we being too dramatic? Yes, I agree some of us have been a little too passionate about it. Are we being negative? Yes we are. Could our opinion be the truth and what we say is what will happen to Nintendo? Far from it. Like I said, we can analyze this all we want but in the end we can't determine what will happen. But guess what? Neither does your own words.
Don't like what we have to say? Fine! Disagree with us? Fine. You guys have the right to discuss this and bring your own views into it. It's the insults, the flaming and the censorship that annoys the hell out of us.
If you guys love the Wii name so much why don't you post extensive, coherent and realistic editorials and points as to why the name works?
A great deal of the Wii haters have posted some good points as to why the name doesn't work, Rick Powers' editorial being a recent example. I have yet to see a good argument coming from a Wii follower. All I've read was "The people that hate the Wii are inmature", "You guys have severe issues", "You guys are morons" and the list goes on.
If you guys want to agree with the Wii, post relevant thoughts on the matter. If you rely on insults and flaming it just proves my point that you guys are so intent on believing on Nintendo that you would be willing to insult and cast aside anyone that thinks differently.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 04, 2006, 09:50:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
It sounds just the way it's written only after you're told how it sounds(and barely at that), not upon first encountering Wii. Most newbies won't be working from hindsight like you.
Nope, to someone whose native language isn't English the name is straightforward.
Post by: Arbok on May 04, 2006, 09:57:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Do you know what happens when games and consoles don't sell? The companies that produces them lose money. And what happens when they lose money? They lose third party support and go bankrupt. And what happens if Nintendo fails? We won't be able to play their games ever again.
I hate the Wii name, but that is a doomsdays predicition like no other. The system, no matter how bad it does, will never effect Nintendo to the degree where they close shop.
The worst case scenario, and why we are debating this as much as we are, is that sales are low and, in turn, third party support is very weak as companies don't even bother to take advantage of the controller inovations on account of it not being viable to allocate Wii exclusive content. That's what's at stake here, not Nintendo's entire bottom line or well being.
Post by: wandering on May 04, 2006, 10:01:58 PM
Quote
This is almost like when you have great faith in God and an atheist comes to you and say "there's no God. All Churches lie to you. The bible is a fake". Your faith in God is so big that you cast aside everything that person says, wether what they say is right or wrong.
But do you cast aside what they say? About God, I mean?
Anyway. Not sure if any of that is directed at me, but, I feel like I've made some good points (if I do say so myself) and haven't been insulting. I suppose others have been less so, and I'll agree the insults are annoying. Yes. Everyone stop insulting and such.
Quote
If you guys love the Wii name so much why don't you post extensive, coherent and realistic editorials and points as to why the name works?
A great deal of the Wii haters have posted some good points as to why the name doesn't work, Rick Powers' editorial being a recent example. I have yet to see a good argument coming from a Wii follower. All I've read was "The people that hate the Wii are inmature", "You guys have severe issues", "You guys are morons" and the list goes on.
For whatever it's worth, most of what I've been hearing out of Wii detractors has been: I don't like the name, therefore it is bad + here's an over-the-top prediction for how I assume consumers will respond to it + here's an over-the-top prediction for the doom the name will bring to Nintendo.
edit: I thought Rick's editorial was pretty good, though.
*shrug*
Post by: Arbok on May 04, 2006, 10:05:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
...most of what I've been hearing out of Wii supporters has been: I don't like the name, therefore it is bad + here's an over-the-top prediction for how I assume consumers will respond to it + here's an over-the-top prediction for the doom the name will bring to Nintendo.
Man, if that's what the supporters are saying, I would hate to see what the critics of the name think about the situation...
EDIT: Bah, must you spoil all my fun? Late night typos are the best...
Post by: wandering on May 04, 2006, 10:07:46 PM
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2006, 04:40:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Okay SB, now you're pulling doomsday predictions out of thin air for a worst-case scenario you're treating as fact. Worse, you're basing your actions and judgment on it.
I can't argue with blatant irrationality, man; give me something to work with.
Regardless, I maintain that if that's enough to nullify your enjoyment of the games... if you can't handle the concept of paying money to play games that you think are fun, because of the off chance that, in a parallel universe where Nintendo did what you wanted, there might have been more games... well, I don't know what to say. It hurts just to type out logic that convoluted.
How am I being a doomsday predictor? If the wii fails, do you think Nintendo will try again with another home console? They pulled all the stops on this one, clearly put a great deal into R&D and if the console doesn't outsell the GC, it'll likely be the last home console they ever create.
Nothing is nullifying my enjoyment of the games. I'll buy them and enjoy them all I want. I just can't become excited to hear about them because, like I said, I think the name will cripple the console its whole life and I'm sick of investing in products which die out (Dreamcast) or get the shaft when it comes to support (GC).
Quote
A great deal of the Wii haters have posted some good points as to why the name doesn't work, Rick Powers' editorial being a recent example. I have yet to see a good argument coming from a Wii follower. All I've read was "The people that hate the Wii are inmature", "You guys have severe issues", "You guys are morons" and the list goes on
Couldn't have said it better myself. I've seen plenty of attacking the anti-wii argument but I've seldom seen a counter-argument saying "The will will succeed because of _________."
Then again, that argument would sound like, "People will get over the name and the non-gamers who Nintendo is aiming for will buy it, despite never owning a console before. They'll look past the fact that they're image conscious Americans who value their purchasing decisions above their own spirituality for the sake of buying a console from a game company which has a huge stigma for being aimed at children and is all but unheard of in the US thanks to two giant competitors trying to crush them out of existence, and they'll buy it even if the name is awkward and embarrassing to use in a sentence because you can barely say two words about it without stumbling onto innuendo."
Post by: mantidor on May 05, 2006, 05:11:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Oh, also, sorry. I have to ask:Quote
Originally posted by: Mantidor
The problem is that I find myself in the scenario when I actually want this console to fail because of the name, because Ive never been so disgusted in my life. I don't know if it will happen, given the console's features I actually doubt it will happen, but I want it to happen, that makes my stomach revolt.Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I'm almost ashamed to admit this, but the name actually killed my enthusiasm for E3.
What the hell is wrong with you people?
oh I shouldve also clarified that I want it to fail because is the only way to get a change in the name.
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 05, 2006, 06:22:32 AM
Quote
How am I being a doomsday predictor? If the wii fails, do you think Nintendo will try again with another home console? They pulled all the stops on this one, clearly put a great deal into R&D and if the console doesn't outsell the GC, it'll likely be the last home console they ever create.
Of course they will. Why wouldn't they? Companies don't just give up and go home when one of their products doesn't do as well as expected. I'm not sure where you're getting this "Nintendo dies if the Wii dies" thing from, but I'm afraid it does make you quite the little doomsday prophet.
Quote
I just can't become excited to hear about them because, like I said, I think the name will cripple the console its whole life and I'm sick of investing in products which die out (Dreamcast) or get the shaft when it comes to support (GC).
And I guess there lies your problem. Wii isn't a technology to invest in and pledge your neverending loyalty to, it's just a console to buy to play games on if you like the games.
I can understand not liking the name; I can understand not expecting Wii to sell well at all. But allowing that to lessen your enjoyment of the games... well, you can't argue the rationality behind that. It doesn't exist. There's a line between disagreement and illogical bitterness, and you crossed it. I'll talk to you again when you're making sense; in the meantime, I at least will be looking forward to the games I think I'm going to enjoy.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 05, 2006, 06:44:50 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2006, 07:01:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN Of course they will. Why wouldn't they? Companies don't just give up and go home when one of their products doesn't do as well as expected. I'm not sure where you're getting this "Nintendo dies if the Wii dies" thing from, but I'm afraid it does make you quite the little doomsday prophet.
Do you not understand what's going on here? This would be the 3rd home console which has finished last.
I'm POSITIVE that there are higher-ups at Nintendo who must be pushing for the elimination of the home console and the focus to be placed entirely on the vastly more successful handheld console line. If Nintendo took the resources they've been investing in the home console market and put it into handhelds, they'd likely get far more return for their money. If the wii doesn't outsell the GC, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nintendo just packed their bags and left the home console market.
Quote
And I guess there lies your problem. Wii isn't a technology to invest in and pledge your neverending loyalty to, it's just a console to buy to play games on if you like the games.
I can understand not liking the name; I can understand not expecting Wii to sell well at all. But allowing that to lessen your enjoyment of the games... well, you can't argue the rationality behind that. It doesn't exist. There's a line between disagreement and illogical bitterness, and you crossed it. I'll talk to you again when you're making sense; in the meantime, I at least will be looking forward to the games I think I'm going to enjoy.
Do you own a GC? What is your GC doing RIGHT NOW? I'm willing to bet that it's GATHERING DUST just like mine.
When I buy a console, I expect that the console will have good games released for it its whole lifetime. The GC didn't live up to this, something I consider to be a reasonable expectation.
If the wee doesn't live up to this either, I'm going to regret buying one. $200 could pay for a lot of other things and if Nintendo is going to slap a craptacular name on their console, how can I expect it to sell well enough that developers will continue to support it?
Post by: Strell on May 05, 2006, 07:16:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherHow can I expect it to sell well enough that developers will continue to support it?
That's funny. It's gotten developer support even before one has been sold. MUCH more than the GC had.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 05, 2006, 07:18:25 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2006, 07:21:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell That's funny. It's gotten developer support even before one has been sold. MUCH more than the GC had.
First of all, all of this dev support came BEFORE the name was announced, which I'm sure didn't earn Nintendo any friends, especially with American devs.
Second it's the CONTINUED dev support that I'm worried about. The GC started alright and gradually sank to the point where devs were axing all GC support.
How can US devs not be pissed as all hell? Nintendo made a decision without even considering the ramifications it may have in english-speaking territories. If I were them, I'd be praying that somehow despite one of the worst names imaginable, the console still sells well.
Never mind, I'm doing THAT anyway.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2006, 07:24:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering What the hell is wrong with you people?
Why don't YOU tell US?
If you think we're wrong, explain how we're wrong.
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 05, 2006, 07:26:53 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2006, 07:34:19 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 05, 2006, 07:42:28 AM
Really, I had no idea you guys were so intent on getting a specific number of years of enjoyment out of your investment. Seems to me you might be overthinking things a little.
Post by: Strell on May 05, 2006, 07:43:46 AM
If people honestly don't buy it based on the name, even when developers are making the effort to bring them new gameplay experiences, the name becomes irrelevent. I concede that it was Nintendo's decision for the name. But if we're dealing with fanboy bs and idiotic "image" conscious people who refuse to buy it on name alone DESPITE the games being there, then we're dealing with two different sets of problems.
You know how you get it to have continued support? You stop being a whiner and you buy the system and games on launch. And you continue to support it. Therefore it is almost entirely in the hands of the consumer at this point. The name shouldn't even BE considered. The gameplay should. You know, the same battle cry that N-fans have screamed for the last 10 years? That it's the gameplay that matters, not the graphics, image, color of the console, or other nonsense.
But I guess even N-fans are allowed to be stupid.
Vote with your dollars. Whether or not that keeps it successful isn't up to you, but at least you did your part.
Which is how I am going to pursue it. Screw what others do and what others say. At the end of the next gen, I'll be sitting here knowing I did my part to make sure Nintendo got the damn message that I support their system and their sincere attempt to be innovative.
Now I've had it with this argument. You people call me irrational for dealing with the name, and I call you irrational for not liking it. The only difference is that you hide your own dislike behind this guise of "OMFG IT WILL HURT THE SALES."
Screw that. Unless you're a total idiot, you realize that YOU buying the system is what matters for YOU. If others don't follow, that's THEIR damn problem. And I assure you they will be missing out.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2006, 07:58:01 AM
Buying dying consoles is right up my alley. I owned a Sega CD, Atari Jaguar, and a Dreamcast. I had fun with them, of course, but that doesn't change the fact that I would have preferred to have fun with them for longer with more games.
Post by: Requiem on May 05, 2006, 08:23:39 AM
Could this be the worse decision Nintendo has made since the Cartridges?
Has Nintendo lost the war before it started?
Or is this all just a bunch of bullsh!t?
Come back next year for the exciting conclusion of: Wii, the best worst name ever!
{/que old school end-of-episode narrator voice}
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 05, 2006, 08:23:52 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2006, 08:34:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem Or is this all just a bunch of bullsh!t?
I'm rooting for this one, or for Nintendo to at least explain a marketing strategy at E3 which will make most folks nod and say, "Yeah, that could work."
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 05, 2006, 08:34:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
{que old school end-of-episode narrator voice}
Could this be the worse decision Nintendo has made since the Cartridges?
Has Nintendo lost the war before it started?
Or is this all just a bunch of bullsh!t?
Come back next year for the exciting conclusion of: Wii, the best worst name ever!
{/que old school end-of-episode narrator voice}
You forgot the creepy piano music and the images of shock and awe.
You know like...O.O
:_O 
:|Also, you should've said "Tune in to E3 to see the development of this story!".
Post by: KDR_11k on May 05, 2006, 08:35:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
We're cool then.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2006, 08:40:05 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 05, 2006, 08:47:10 AM
Post by: RickPowers on May 05, 2006, 10:19:53 AM
Quote
I'm POSITIVE that there are higher-ups at Nintendo who must be pushing for the elimination of the home console and the focus to be placed entirely on the vastly more successful handheld console line. If Nintendo took the resources they've been investing in the home console market and put it into handhelds, they'd likely get far more return for their money. If the wii doesn't outsell the GC, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nintendo just packed their bags and left the home console market.
Very astute theory, Smash_Brother. I salute you.
Note that while he doesn't implicity say it, it wouldn't be an issue of whether Wii was profitable or not. It would simply be an issue of ROI, and opportunity costs, and that the money could be better spent fattening up the existing cash-cow rather than trying to get this old girl to breed.
Terrible analogy, but I think the point stands. Nintendo knows on which side their bread is buttered.
Post by: mantidor on May 05, 2006, 11:31:55 AM
Post by: Kairon on May 05, 2006, 12:50:58 PM
It's always a possibility that Nintendo would drop out of the hardware market, but it's never a possibility that they'll go easily. This is a company that believes it knows where videogames can be going, and believes it should expend the effort to take us in that direction. They WANT to stay in the hardware business at a very basic level. It's in their blood.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on May 05, 2006, 03:35:15 PM
As for the Wii name, I totally see why Nintendo chose it. The WiFi -> Wii could be played upon for advertisements, the i's do look like their controllers, etc. But the points about urine and unclear pronunciation are completely valid as well. Wii'll just have to see. The next Mario game better not be called "Super Mariio," though.
Post by: Kairon on May 05, 2006, 05:12:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
This is what I find extremely disturbing about the argument.
It's OK if you guys agree with the name, like the name and disagree with what we think. But when you openly question our reasons for not agreeing with the name and make allusions to our sanity in general, I can't help but feel a little disgusted by it.
In all honesty, I think most of you that support the name have a faith in Nintendo so grand that you don't want to hear any negative comments or general opinion.
This is almost like when you have great faith in God and an atheist comes to you and say "there's no God. All Churches lie to you. The bible is a fake". Your faith in God is so big that you cast aside everything that person says, wether what they say is right or wrong.
They could be telling you the biggest truth there is and you still cast it aside. Why? Because people just don't want to hear it. They want to believe that what they have faith in is right and is the absolute truth in life, even when it's clearly obvious it isn't.
This is what is happening right now with Nintendo. True, some of you have valid points as to why the name works, but from what I've seen it's all mostly blind faith in them and you don't WANT to hear what we have to say.
Want proof of this? Rick Powers' editorial. He presented his views as to why the name might not work in a smart, coherent, calm, cool and collected manner. Yet a great deal of you have bashed him and argued his opinion down, even when he offers some really damn good points! And why? Because comments like this goes against what you believe in!
Are we being too dramatic? Yes, I agree some of us have been a little too passionate about it. Are we being negative? Yes we are. Could our opinion be the truth and what we say is what will happen to Nintendo? Far from it. Like I said, we can analyze this all we want but in the end we can't determine what will happen. But guess what? Neither does your own words.
Don't like what we have to say? Fine! Disagree with us? Fine. You guys have the right to discuss this and bring your own views into it. It's the insults, the flaming and the censorship that annoys the hell out of us.
If you guys love the Wii name so much why don't you post extensive, coherent and realistic editorials and points as to why the name works?
A great deal of the Wii haters have posted some good points as to why the name doesn't work, Rick Powers' editorial being a recent example. I have yet to see a good argument coming from a Wii follower. All I've read was "The people that hate the Wii are inmature", "You guys have severe issues", "You guys are morons" and the list goes on.
If you guys want to agree with the Wii, post relevant thoughts on the matter. If you rely on insults and flaming it just proves my point that you guys are so intent on believing on Nintendo that you would be willing to insult and cast aside anyone that thinks differently.
I earnestly hope you weren't including me in this condemnation. And if you were, would this rectify it?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Caliban on May 05, 2006, 06:47:22 PM
This kid I was speaking with is 16 years old, and he's acting with more maturity than most people have reacted in these forums. I am not ignorant that you have the right to express yourselves. I type this because I considered many people from this forum to be essential to it in that they had shown what makes PGC's forum so special from other forums.
My rant is over.
Post by: mantidor on May 05, 2006, 06:54:00 PM
Post by: Kairon on May 05, 2006, 07:22:22 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 05, 2006, 07:28:02 PM
A lot of websites worldwide won't allow access to their content unless you're at least 18 years or older.
Post by: IceCold on May 05, 2006, 07:38:30 PM
QuoteWe've talked about this to death, and the fact is that it isn't that easy. If Nintendo focused solely on their portables, they would have to lay off many, many people. Sure, they're not making much profit from the console market, but it is what keeps so many of their workers employed. Those people can't just work on portable games - there isn't a big enough market in that area. Also, if Nintendo just released all of their games onto a portable, there would be saturation. The games would eat into the sales of the other ones, and therefore none would sell well.
If Nintendo took the resources they've been investing in the home console market and put it into handhelds, they'd likely get far more return for their money. If the wii doesn't outsell the GC, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nintendo just packed their bags and left the home console market.
Post by: Arbok on May 05, 2006, 08:07:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
... later I went to check the forums from planetgamecube.com and I just burst into laughter with all the Wee jokes"
As mantidor said, that doesn't sound like the response I saw at all. There was a lot of concern being addressed about the name because it was generating the response you are complaing about there from other sources, including interviews being conducted with Nintendo PR, of all places, and numerous web comics and communities.
If you want Wee jokes, I can pinpoint you in the direction of many other forums to get your fix... Unless that was just an attempt to elevate the kid at work's opinion over "us", i.e. those who don't agree with the name.
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Sure, they're not making much profit from the console market, but it is what keeps so many of their workers employed. Those people can't just work on portable games - there isn't a big enough market in that area. Also, if Nintendo just released all of their games onto a portable, there would be saturation. The games would eat into the sales of the other ones, and therefore none would sell well.
The Japanese, in general, hate to lay off workers, which is why Sony doing just that made such waves in the head lines. When it comes to making cutbacks, they simply cut hours from workers as opposed to sending them to the curb. If they did get rid of the console secotor - which I doubt they will - this is what I would expect them to do.
Secondly, as mentioned by TYP, if handhelds increased in power even more, won't this make them viable to be sold against both the current handheld market and consoles? If the next "Game Boy" is slightly more powerful than a Gamecube, cheaper then its console counterparts, and portable... wouldn't that start to look like a real good replacement for traditional consoles that now seem weighed down by "having" to have a hooked up TV to use?
Post by: mantidor on May 05, 2006, 08:37:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
That's a pessimistic assumption mantidor.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I think is quite realistic. Whatever little interest the joe madden had for the Wii was destroyed when the name was announced.
Post by: Caliban on May 05, 2006, 08:41:49 PM
Excuse me, but there were alot of wee jokes on this forum even before people actually started debating about Nintendo's marketing strategy, and there's nothing wrong with that, but using it as a way to manifest your disgust at Wii is infantile.
"If you want Wee jokes, I can pinpoint you in the direction of many other forums to get your fix... Unless that was just an attempt to elevate the kid at work's opinion over "us", i.e. those who don't agree with the name."
You know, I could just as easily insult you too. If you didn't understand my point, too bad, next!
I don't have anything against anyone here on PGC, I love it here, it's just that alot of you changed so drastically in opinion about Nintendo that it seemed irrational to me. I know the name might be wierd, and you guys/gals might be against it but if most of you are going to buy the system what's the point of arguing against it? I intend to play games and not stare at the logo.
Post by: Kairon on May 05, 2006, 08:46:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
That's a pessimistic assumption mantidor.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I think is quite realistic. Whatever little interest the joe madden had for the Wii was destroyed when the name was announced.
A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet Mantidor, and I think you are completely ignoring the possibility of madden finding a significant audience on the Wii due not only to the idea that you can actually, physically, stiff arm a guy with the Wii, but also coupled with the fact that Nintendo is looking to find more gamers, whether or not those gamers are my dad, my room-mate (a depart-edgamer in denial), or a stranger just strolling through a mall.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Arbok on May 05, 2006, 09:03:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
You know, I could just as easily insult you too. If you didn't understand my point, too bad, next!
I never made any effort or had any intent to insult you, I was merely making my comment in reaction to this:
"This kid I was speaking with is 16 years old, and he's acting with more maturity than most people have reacted in these forums."
A response in reaction to the "fact" that many, not some but most after all, are not being mature about it. Again, we by in large haven't reverted to "wee" jokes, and have been much more civil about this then any other video game forum where I have seen this brought up, even though tension has been very high here and people have almost dipped into personal insults on one or two occasions.
If you want to look at early responses and see how many "wee" jokes were made, I would encourage looking at topics like this:
http://www.planetgamecube.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=28&threadid=15716
Where it's clear that the general reaction was more shock then anything else, before more serious talk about it began.
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
I know the name might be wierd, and you guys/gals might be against it but if most of you are going to buy the system what's the point of arguing against it? I intend to play games and not stare at the logo.
What's the point of talking about sales? Why is there a DS sales thread in the DS forum?
Post by: Caliban on May 05, 2006, 09:24:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
What's the point of talking about sales? Why is there a DS sales thread in the DS forum?
I don't know, I don't even post in that thread, to me it's pointless anyway, but it's there 'cause there are those that like to discuss it.
I never made any effort or had any intent to insult you, I was merely making my comment in reaction to this:
"This kid I was speaking with is 16 years old, and he's acting with more maturity than most people have reacted in these forums."
A response in reaction to the "fact" that many, not some but most after all, are not being mature about it. Again, we by in large haven't reverted to "wee" jokes, and have been much more civil about this then any other video game forum where I have seen this brought up, even though tension has been very high here and people have almost dipped into personal insults on one or two occasions.
If you want to look at early responses and see how many "wee" jokes were made, I would encourage looking at topics like this:
http://www.planetgamecube.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=28&threadid=15716
Where it's clear that the general reaction was more shock then anything else, before more serious talk about it began.
Oh I know this forum has been much more civil than other forums. And shock is the right word to describe what happened. However...well I'm not gonna discuss this anymore, because it will just be another discussion stuck in a loop.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2006, 10:17:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban Oh I know this forum has been much more civil than other forums. And shock is the right word to describe what happened. However...well I'm not gonna discuss this anymore, because it will just be another discussion stuck in a loop.
To be honest, I'm glad to hear there are people out there like him, but he's a rarity. You're just not going to find all that many 16 year olds who aren't horrified that they'd somehow ruin their image by being associated with a product with a name they consider childish.
I'd befriend that guy if I were you. Sounds like a level-headed individual.
Post by: IceCold on May 06, 2006, 11:56:17 AM
Post by: Caliban on May 06, 2006, 04:54:44 PM
Post by: wandering on May 07, 2006, 09:53:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I've seldom seen a counter-argument saying "The will will succeed because of _________."
I'll bite.
Wii will succed because it is easy to remember.
Because, in being simple, it is not intimidating.
Because it can't be abbreviated and so doesn't have a secret code word that gamers refer to it by and non-gamers feel closed out by.
Because the dancing i's are cool.
Because there are a million cool taglines to be had by replacing 'we' with 'wii'.
Because most teenagers won't make wee-wee jokes for fear of being looked on as childish.
Because, for most young men ('joe madden') the name doesn't really sound tiku tiku tiku! or homosexual in any definite capacity.
Because most people couldn't give a sh*t about stupid names (other supercial details like the look of the console are much more important).
Post by: odifiend on May 08, 2006, 06:22:49 AM
Post by: vudu on May 08, 2006, 09:39:21 AM
QuoteThat doesn’t make any sense at all. If Nintendo executives wanted to sabotage the Wii, they would have done it back in the development stage and not in the product launch stage.
Originally posted by: RickPowersQuote
I'm POSITIVE that there are higher-ups at Nintendo who must be pushing for the elimination of the home console and the focus to be placed entirely on the vastly more successful handheld console line. If Nintendo took the resources they've been investing in the home console market and put it into handhelds, they'd likely get far more return for their money. If the wii doesn't outsell the GC, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nintendo just packed their bags and left the home console market.
Very astute theory, Smash_Brother. I salute you.
Note that while he doesn't implicity say it, it wouldn't be an issue of whether Wii was profitable or not. It would simply be an issue of ROI, and opportunity costs, and that the money could be better spent fattening up the existing cash-cow rather than trying to get this old girl to breed.
Terrible analogy, but I think the point stands. Nintendo knows on which side their bread is buttered.
Besides, what do they have to gain by lowering the ROI of the Wii? If they didn’t try to sabotage the system one of two outcomes would occur—either (a) the system would have a lower ROI than their handheld efforts (naturally; without sabotage) or (b) the system would have a higher ROI than their handheld systems. If it’s the first scenario then they have an excuse to discontinue the home console line. If it’s the second scenario, then they’re making more money than they would on a handheld system and there’s no need to sabotage it in the first place.
The only feasible reason why someone would want to sabotage the system launch would be if they had a personal vendetta against people involved with the launch. From a purely business perspective it makes no sense at all.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 08, 2006, 10:32:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu That doesn’t make any sense at all. If Nintendo executives wanted to sabotage the Wii, they would have done it back in the development stage and not in the product launch stage.
Besides, what do they have to gain by lowering the ROI of the Wii? If they didn’t try to sabotage the system one of two outcomes would occur—either (a) the system would have a lower ROI than their handheld efforts (naturally; without sabotage) or (b) the system would have a higher ROI than their handheld systems. If it’s the first scenario then they have an excuse to discontinue the home console line. If it’s the second scenario, then they’re making more money than they would on a handheld system and there’s no need to sabotage it in the first place.
The only feasible reason why someone would want to sabotage the system launch would be if they had a personal vendetta against people involved with the launch. From a purely business perspective it makes no sense at all.
No one said anything about intentional sabotage. I just mean that, if the Wii doesn't outperform the Cube, it'll be the third home console in which Nintendo has lost market share and those execs will probably say, "F-it!" and demand that all of Nintendo's resources be put toward making it the best handheld gaming company that it can be.
Sorry, Wandering, but I'm giving your reply to the "Non-Deterministic State Machine":
1. Wii will succed because it is easy to remember.
2. Because, in being simple, it is not intimidating.
3. Because it can't be abbreviated and so doesn't have a secret code word that gamers refer to it by and non-gamers feel closed out by.
4. Because the dancing i's are cool.
5. Because there are a million cool taglines to be had by replacing 'we' with 'wii'.
6. Because most teenagers won't make wee-wee jokes for fear of being looked on as childish.
7. Because, for most young men ('joe madden') the name doesn't really sound tiku tiku tiku! or homosexual in any definite capacity.
8. Because most people couldn't give a sh*t about stupid names (other supercial details like the look of the console are much more important).
1. False. One syllable names are among the very EASIEST to forget. Also irrelevant, unless Nintendo doesn't offer kiosks and people will have to remember it SOLELY from commercials.
2. False. Wii is not simple. It is complex because even Nintendo cannot make a website about it without a paragraph of explanation. It's questionable how to pronounce it and the name does not relate at all to the product it represents. If people aren't even sure how to say it, how can they NOT be intimidated by it?
3. False. This is a hinderance. People saying "I play on the we." or "What's out for we?" sound like they're talking like Eddie Brock (aka Venom) referring to himself in the plural. I try to avoid sounding like a video game obsessed geek whenever possible and loved to shorten Nintendo's consoles to "GC" and "DS". Now I'll just sound like I have no grasp of the english language.
4. Irrelevant. You cannot assume that anyone has seen or will see the commercials. The letters in "Revolution" could have been made to act out gaming actions just as easily.
5. True. People will probably find the heinous puns endearing.
6. False. Teenagers will likely make jokes about the "wee" to no end, extending those jokes to the people who play it and all products associated with it. After forgetting about the console for a while, the jokes will seem fresh to these teenagers as soon as the subject comes up again.
7. False. The foundation of advertising in the United States is insecurity. If the customer feels insecure, then they can be convinced to buy products which will make them more secure with themselves. This is the reason why image sells products like iPods and PSPs. In the American mindset, it is impossible to own a product without that product reflecting on the person who purchased it. The "wee" will fall under this same scrutiny.
8. False. See #7, though I admit that people are more likely to see past the name if the product itself is exceptional.
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 08, 2006, 10:50:16 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 08, 2006, 10:55:21 AM
In closing, I hope we see either one or both of the following at E3:
1. A sample of Nintendo's Wii ads.
2. A further explanation regarding the choice of name.
Post by: Requiem on May 08, 2006, 11:19:43 AM
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 11:45:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
It actually doesn't sound so bad when Nintendo prefaces it - The "Nintendo Wii". I was flipping by G4 and it sounds good mentioned along side the PS3. (All the console names rhyme now) I wouldn't have paid a firm to make me the name, but it just isn't that bad.
But Nintendo doesnt prefaces it, in fact they encourage to just use "wii" in the presentation flash.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 08, 2006, 12:29:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem SB -- You make me cry for humanity sake....
Clarify, please...
Do you mean that you're crying because you believe I paint a skewed picture of humanity...
Or because you understand I'm laying down the ugly truth?
Post by: hudsonhawk on May 08, 2006, 12:36:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
What's the point of talking about sales? Why is there a DS sales thread in the DS forum?
Because at some point consoles became like sports teams for a lot of people, and sales are the stats by which such people decide whether or not their "team" won.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 08, 2006, 12:44:40 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 08, 2006, 12:52:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Requiem SB -- You make me cry for humanity sake....
Clarify, please...
Do you mean that you're crying because you believe I paint a skewed picture of humanity...
Or because you understand I'm laying down the ugly truth?
I think what he means is that you are EXTREMELY negative (perhaps a bit too much?) about this issue and won't stop arguing about it until you get the point accross.
Maybe he thinks that your lack of faith on Nintendo is...disturbing :p .
I admit I've been doing this too. I am still not convinced of the power of the new name, but lord knows I am not severely angry about it. Like I mentioned once, this is one of those ideas that could either make or break the console. Plus, in all honesty, there are many things in my life that warrant my attention and to an extend deserve my depression more than the name of the console.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 08, 2006, 12:57:27 PM
I just have no illusions about what your average gamer/teenager is going to think of the name.
Post by: odifiend on May 08, 2006, 02:54:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I've said time and again that the name will be fine so long as Nintendo markets the ever loving f*ck out of it and turns it into a household name.
I just have no illusions about what your average gamer/teenager is going to think of the name.
Well then it is perfect - Nintendo is forcing itself ahead of time to market the ever loving mess out of something.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 08, 2006, 04:10:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
Well then it is perfect - Nintendo is forcing itself ahead of time to market the ever loving mess out of something.
Make no mistake: it's their TV ad campaign which is going to make or break this name.
The gaming community is just a very small piece of the pie (a loud piece, but a small piece).
Post by: wandering on May 08, 2006, 08:12:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: hudsonhawk
...consoles became like sports teams for a lot of people, and sales are the stats by which such people decide whether or not their "team" won.
This reminds me, I used to live near Virginia Tech, and their mascot was a turkey. And everyone stood up and did the hokey-pokey at half-time.
What I'm getting at is, there's just no way to predict what people will latch onto. You make the assumption, Smash_Brother, that people will feel a certain way about the name because of your intitial bad reaction to it. Who's to say the name will make people feel insecure? What specific connotations does it have? The GameCube was purple - purple is directly associated with women, gays, obnoxious dinosaurs, etc.
...What about Wii? People have made the case that it makes the console sound tiku tiku tiku! - when actually, the only thing it sounds like a kid's slang word. This may not seem like a big difference, but as I pointed out earlier, what american teenager is going to risk sounding childish himself by latching onto the fact that the name sounds like a children's word, especially when the name is also sounds like the more common 'we'? Teenagers don't make wee-wee jokes, they make sex jokes.
People may dismiss the name, and think it's stupid, at first. But soon it'll be a normal part of everyone's lexicon, and no one will think it's stupid, or consider not buying the console because of the name. And when that happens, that's when the marketing potential kicks in: now you have a name that can make for cool taglines in commercials, that seperates you from the competiton on the shelf, and that makes it easier for non-gamers to remember your name when they hear it. (You made a point about how single syllable names are harder to remember - not sure where that comes from. I, at least, think it's easier to remember 'bass' than it is to remember 'humuhumunukunukuapuaa'.)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 09, 2006, 05:29:24 AM
They'll probably remember the name, not because it's monosyllabic, but because it's too silly to forget.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 11, 2006, 11:55:22 AM
I 100% agree with you. No matter how much we rant against the name, no matter how much we think the name sucks, no matter how much whining and bitching we do can determine the outcome of this battle.
I've said this before already; neither the Wii haters or the Wii followers can determine the outcome of this. After all, remember when everyone said that the PSP was going to win because it was a good competitor for Nintendo and the DS was too sparkling innovationy to be even considered a serious gaming handheld?
I think this is one of those topics where a lot of people will be proven right and wrong. The best thing to do is to wait and see. And I aim this to ALL of you, even you Smash_Brother.
Post by: RABicle on December 29, 2009, 04:14:35 AM
Quote
The people Nintendo wants to reach with the console will not be caught dead walking into a store and asking for “Wii" within earshot of friends.
Nintendo is aiming at the eight year old boys market? I thought they already had this one.
Pathetic editorial, Rick should drop his hate or leave forever.
Rick what you have to understand is that crap senses of humour and toilet humour beyond age 10 is exclusive to gamers. New gamers could not give a damn.Just bumping this because I was RIGHT ALL ALONG.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 29, 2009, 05:24:18 AM
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 29, 2009, 05:30:44 AM
Post by: Stratos on December 29, 2009, 06:01:10 AM
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 29, 2009, 06:44:23 AM
What happened last year involving Rick?Go click on his profile and check his last topic.
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 29, 2009, 07:42:11 AM
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on December 29, 2009, 08:27:59 AM
Post by: RABicle on January 01, 2010, 06:57:45 AM
Post by: NWR_Lindy on January 01, 2010, 11:50:40 PM
Post by: Urkel on January 03, 2010, 04:31:06 AM
Embarrassing.
Quote
DS was disruptive because of the gameplay that the dual screens offered.
Rick doesn't even know what disruption is. More proof he had no clue what he was talking about.
Post by: NWR_Lindy on January 03, 2010, 09:06:43 AM
Post by: Urkel on January 03, 2010, 06:46:58 PM
