Post by: Kairon on April 05, 2006, 02:42:03 AM
Developer gossip in LA LA Land points to high-end pricepoint
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Edit:
Apparently, a Sony of Europe Exec has also let it slip:
gamesindustry.biz reports it
And so has Joystiq
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 05, 2006, 03:17:31 AM
Post by: Nephilim on April 05, 2006, 04:05:13 AM
Post by: capamerica on April 05, 2006, 04:53:15 AM
Seriously thou why do people even listen to Spong? Their track record is like 0.
Post by: Caliban on April 05, 2006, 06:43:53 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 05, 2006, 07:08:08 AM
Post by: jasonditz on April 05, 2006, 07:25:41 AM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on April 05, 2006, 07:40:34 AM
Post by: jasonditz on April 05, 2006, 08:00:24 AM
Post by: Kairon on April 05, 2006, 08:39:05 AM
Post by: capamerica on April 05, 2006, 09:47:42 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 05, 2006, 11:49:00 AM
Just as Nintendo let slip early on that the Revolution was only 2-3X the power of a Gamecube...though I question if Nintendo won't last minute at least up the RAM...Sony also mentioned early on that PS3 will be expensive.
$499.99 is very high...but I believe Sony probably feels the price is justified. Imagine you are not only getting a state of the art gaming system of supposedly unparalleled power...you are also getting Blue-Ray movie player to watch truly HD movies.
I really doubt that it is even remotely costing Sony $900.00 to make a single PS3. I would doubt that it is costing them $700.00.
Really Sony may believe that with their lead in the gaming market, and the verge of a new movie format that they can afford to price the system to actually make a small profit and possible help save Sony's financial troubles.
To me this is really going to hurt Sony's sales. Look at the systems that have launched with large price points...they have never succeeded. 3DO, NEO-GEO, Jaguar even...all had too high price points and failed in the market.
Post by: TMW on April 05, 2006, 12:22:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
okay I take it back, I guess Spong was due to get something right for once.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Post by: IceCold on April 05, 2006, 03:11:19 PM
Post by: TMW on April 05, 2006, 03:18:04 PM
Personally, I would be surprised if the PS3 wasn't at -least- $500USD. Honestly, I was expecting it to go for $600 given the rumors of production cost.
Post by: skyfire on April 05, 2006, 03:54:23 PM
Regardless of price I'm not sure I will be buying any of the next-gen systems. Simply have other things going on right now so gaming has to take a back seat for the moment.
Post by: Bloodworth on April 05, 2006, 05:31:20 PM
Lik Sang posted a quote from Kutaragi declaring that PS3 would not be priced below 50,000 Yen, and although that's about $430 in currency conversions, it tends to translate to $500 in the US. I am not surprised, but I think Skyfire is right about the possibility of them pricing it lower than that with all of this as a diversion.
Post by: Hocotate on April 05, 2006, 05:36:24 PM
Getting back on topic, I think half a grand is way too much, and most shouldn't want to pay that much. But what do I know, I though the $400 price tag was too much on the X360 and people still bought it.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on April 05, 2006, 07:49:35 PM
While the PSP was priced less than expected, the thing is they were not losing too much money on each system at its $250 price, with the PS3, even at $499 US they'd still be losing upwards of $300 per system any lower and they risk financial ruin.
Post by: jasonditz on April 05, 2006, 07:55:32 PM
Mark my words, this "they'll want it so bad, they'll get a second job to buy one" attitude is going to jump up and bite them in the ass.
Post by: wandering on April 05, 2006, 08:16:43 PM
Quote
Mark my words, this "they'll want it so bad, they'll get a second job to buy one" attitude is going to jump up and bite them in the ass.
Yeah...I don't get it. Why not adopt a "they'll want it so bad, they'll get it even without a 400-core synergistic processor" attitude instead?
Post by: mantidor on April 06, 2006, 05:16:45 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 06, 2006, 06:42:27 AM
Look at the technology in both the Xbox 360 and PS3. They are basically really nice and impressive computers. If you were to go out and buy a computer with these specifications you would be spending this much money easy.
I remember before computers were good at doing games that console systems were always underpowered compared to today's computer market, which is why they were so much cheaper...but the console's very design allowed it to do games great.
This is what excites me about the Revolution, the fact that it isn't going to be $400-$500 dollars, and that it is being designed specifically to play games and take them in a new direction.
Even if it is released at $400 nobody will say that is cheap. And I have my doubts that $400 is even possible.
Post by: Rhoq on April 06, 2006, 06:44:42 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 06, 2006, 07:07:50 AM
Sony could get away with the price just in the fact that it could be the cheapest Blue-Ray video player on the market (which I read somewhere.)
Post by: Kairon on April 06, 2006, 07:20:03 AM
I don't discount the possibility though. I just can't find a way to reason my way to a lower PS3 price point.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on April 06, 2006, 07:32:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Mantidor: When is $400.00 cheap to anyone?
It isnt, but Kutaragi isnt just a loon that want to scare his costumers, he says all this so people start expecting a $500-$800 price tag so when the real price comes people will think that is cheap. It happened the exact same thing with the psp, everyone was expecting at least $400, so when sony announced the $250 price for a value pack with even a game and a movie everyone was very quick to spell doom for the DS, because now the prices were "close", of course, the market slowly turned away from the psp because its price tag is in fact high, but also because they were the newcomers in the handheld arena, and Nintendo was more stablished and the DS actually has games worth buying and many other factors, but Im digressing :P. With the consoles is the opposite case, and this "first impression" that the ps3 is "cheap" can help to sell a expensive product more easily, thanks to the already stablished name of the product. If sony announces in the future a ps3 for $400 making enphasis for the Blue ray capabilities and even maybe a movie packed in, a la psp, people will think that its a good price, that will be the initial impression.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 06, 2006, 07:34:54 AM
I suppose they don't mind me running homebrew, then? Oh, wait.
Sony could get away with the price just in the fact that it could be the cheapest Blue-Ray video player on the market (which I read somewhere.)
That's assuming there is actual demand for Bluray. I'm not seeing it. The PS3 can play Bluray so customers end up being able to play BRDs and create demand for BRD movies. But before the PS3 gives Bluray such a large userbase there will be effectively zero demand for a Bluray player.
the mouch-touted and expensive Cell
I'd sure as hell love to live where 70$ for a CPU is considered expensive.
Post by: Kairon on April 06, 2006, 07:50:12 AM
If you want to compare the PSP price rumors to PS3 price rumors, then it'd be safer to use the PS3 for $700 rumor since that probably doesn't account for loss-leading.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: RiskyChris on April 06, 2006, 07:57:08 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 06, 2006, 08:38:55 AM
Look at their huge success, stealing first place from Nintendo with PS1. Incredibly maintaining and gaining a lead with the PS2 this generation.
All the analysists are predicting a PS3 repeat, no matter what Sony releases or price point.
If I had all that support I would be feeling pretty cocky as well.
Now add into the mix that you believe you have the NEXT big media format for movies and beyond, and it is being integrated into the PS3 so everyone that buys your system will be established user base not just for your games, but also for your movies and I would feel even more invincible.
I believe all this will lead to Sony making bad decisions, like pricing higher than competition, and such.
I believe with each new generation of games it isn't a single companies to lose, but a brand new start for every company to show their stuff.
Post by: Rhoq on April 06, 2006, 08:59:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
RHOQ: But it isn't comparable. The PS3 is said to be more powerful...and even if that isn't true, the PS3 allows you to play Blue-Ray movies so that you have added value.
Sony could get away with the price just in the fact that it could be the cheapest Blue-Ray video player on the market (which I read somewhere.)
I completely forgot about Blu-Ray. Actually, I still stick to the $400 price point. Sony wants Blu-Ray to become the successor to DVD. It has competition with the HD-DVD format and both will be at war with each other like the VHS-BetaMax wars of the early 1980s. If Sony releases the PS3 at $400, not only will it be a cheap-ass Blu-Ray player (beating all other BRD players by $600 or more) it would also falsely inflate their installed userbase due to people opting for an "affordable" Blu-Ray solution. Then again, this could also be acheived at a $500 price point, but they would risk losing a lot of the PS2 owners that couldn't afford a $500+ price tag (not saying $400 is any more affordable, but to many it's an easier pill to swallow).
My gut tells me that Sony will be looking to destroy Microsoft. The only way for them to do that would be to sell the PS3 for no more than $399.99 (maybe $449.99 tops), even if that means taking an enormous loss on each PS3 they sell. $500, $600+ is way too much for a console, even if it includes Blu-Ray playback. Standard Definition DVD is good enough for most people, and until the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD situation sorts itself out, regular DVD will not be going anywhere. Unless the cost of the new technology drops, it will be 2010 at the very least, before consumers will have to transition to a new "Hi-Def" video format.
Post by: Rhoq on April 06, 2006, 09:05:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: RiskyChris
Why why why are we moving away from dvds? The jump from vhs to dvd far dwarfs the jump from dvd to blu-ray. Ridiculous.
The same can be said about the leap between current generation consoles and next-gen consoles - yet everyone seems to be in an uproar over the Revolutions rumored "underpowered" specs.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 06, 2006, 09:31:50 AM
Upgrading to a new console every five years is considered routine. Updating movie media formats is not. VHS lasted for years. My entire grade school life all I knew was VHS tapes. People just don't expect media formats to change that frequently. Think of how long CDs have been around now and how long vinyl records and tapes were around.
PCs are constantly upgrading but console owners would never accept annual revisions for consoles. People go with what they're familiar with. A new generation of consoles is expected and a new format for video is not. Therefore the next gen of consoles will be accepted and Blue Ray won't.
I think in the end Sony's constant urge to blend their console with other media is going to be their downfall. I'm not saying it will happen this gen but when it eventually happens that will probably be for the reason. They're losing focus of what brought them to where they are in the first place. They beat Nintendo and Sega because they had the best selection of games. If they focus too much on movies and music and such they're not going to offer that. The PSP sucks as a dedicated game machine. The PS3 can't be the same way.
All three console makers are really targeting the mainstream this gen. Nintendo is doing it in a different way but all three want people who don't currently play games buying their console. The thing is that gaming is what it's all about. No console is ever going to amount to anything unless people are buying and playing games for it.
Post by: MaryJane on April 06, 2006, 11:25:24 AM
Post by: jasonditz on April 06, 2006, 11:55:00 AM
Post by: zakkiel on April 07, 2006, 06:28:07 AM
Edit: And if this is a deliberate ploy to play off against the expected price, they're idiots. All it will do is drive people who are waiting for the PS3 to just give up and adopt the 360 instead.
Post by: MysticGohan on April 07, 2006, 07:00:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: RiskyChris
Why why why are we moving away from dvds? The jump from vhs to dvd far dwarfs the jump from dvd to blu-ray. Ridiculous.
There is a reason, if you own an HDTV. DVD players today so far can only support 480p but can't go beyond it ( Although if they made it standard and modify DVD players I believe they could )
Thus why they are coming out with HD DVD's Weither it's Blu-RAy or HD-DVD you'll be able to watch DVD's in true High Def, 720p 1080i etc.
But it's insane none the less, since the new HD players will cost just as much as most HDTV's ( Rear Projection CRT's )
Plus it seems that Space is an issue with HD and extra cotent and what not, so more space is needed, HD-DVD's can hold well over 15GB on a single disc and 22GB+ on dual. Blu ray can hold more I believe. But I believe HD-DVD's are cheaper than sony's Blu-ray's but not quite sure by how much.
Let's not forget the VHS Vs. Betamax days, Sony got burned back then, even though Beta was superior to VHS in everyway. Will history repeat itself? probably.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 07, 2006, 08:01:36 AM
Usually hardware is priced as if the exchange ratio was 1$:1€. The GC was released for 199€ and went down to 149€ and 99€, the XB and PS2 were released at 299€ and are now at 149€, the XC costs 299€ for the core and 399€ for the standard version.
Also, it was announced as "499-599€", I don't see where you get that 750€ from.
Post by: Kairon on April 07, 2006, 10:35:14 AM
Apparently, the exec who said 500-600 euros was talking about comparing the PS3 to Blue-Ray players.
He was saying that IF the PS3 was 500-600 euros, then it'd look a lot cheaper than Blue-ray players to consumers!
...make of that what you will...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: zakkiel on April 07, 2006, 11:21:08 AM
QuoteYou're right, it was $500-$600 euros, $500-$750 US. ($750 if it wasn't treated as 1:1). I didn't know that prices were usually matched. Does this mean that Europeans pay more for video games, or are otehr goods equivalently priced?
Usually hardware is priced as if the exchange ratio was 1$:1€. The GC was released for 199€ and went down to 149€ and 99€, the XB and PS2 were released at 299€ and are now at 149€, the XC costs 299€ for the core and 399€ for the standard version.
Also, it was announced as "499-599€", I don't see where you get that 750€ from.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 07, 2006, 11:23:51 AM
Immediately Nintendo made a comment that those comments were true and Nintendo hasn't let out any official annoucement about specs.
This news got out and Sony wanted to do damage control. Now the question is will this damage control also leak into lower the price for consumers in the end...and that is a big Ehh...maybe.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 07, 2006, 09:01:20 PM
Videogames use a 1€:0.8$ exchange ratio or something, we pay 60€ for games that cost 50$ in the US. Don't know about other goods but generally, America is "the land of the cheap" to us.
Post by: Arbok on April 08, 2006, 08:27:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MysticGohan
Let's not forget the VHS Vs. Betamax days, Sony got burned back then, even though Beta was superior to VHS in everyway. Will history repeat itself? probably.
Actually VHS, beyond price and company support, had one advantage: size. You can fit much more on a VHS tape then you could on the smaller Beta ones, which was a huge advantage for those wishing to make home movies or for larger sized films (not all that many two VHS movies out there).
This battle, though, is very different, and personally I'm getting tired of people comparing it to the VHS vs. Beta confrontation. The huge difference is that there is already a widespread home media format out there: DVD. When VHS and Beta first started duking it out, there wasn't really much of a wide spread alternative, so people were on the fence about it. This, however, is seeing two formats duke it out while DVDs are still selling very well, and with a leap that is much smaller than the VHS to DVD one. People are likely going to take the wait and see approach to this whole battle, and interest has the potentional to die during this early stage while the vast majority of users aren't interested at making another format jump this early on for such little gain.
