Post by: Nephilim on March 09, 2006, 06:23:48 PM
ati: high end 1800, 1900
nvidia: 7800, 7900 (in a month)
Am I the only one thinking they will be left behind in 6months?
There were serious talk of the death of "pc gaming", yet 360 already is looking worse off
Check out tomb raider for 360 :X
kinda a rant, but has a point
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on March 09, 2006, 06:43:39 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on March 09, 2006, 08:35:30 PM
Post by: capamerica on March 10, 2006, 04:30:44 AM
Post by: jasonditz on March 10, 2006, 08:33:44 AM
Post by: odifiend on March 10, 2006, 09:05:14 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on March 10, 2006, 10:26:37 AM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on March 10, 2006, 12:52:44 PM
Post by: Caliban on March 10, 2006, 02:15:23 PM
Anyway, you guys think the PS3 or X360 GPU is something? Take a look at this: http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/14/sneak_preview_of_the_nvidia_quad_gpu_setup/ . That's right, each video-card has 2 GPUs and because mobos that have two 16X PCI-E slots it makes it way, way, way better than the PS3's or X360 gpu. Then again the PS3 and X360 GPU is built to work in perfect harmony with their multi-core CPUs. So it's all a matter of configuration and also how powerful the apps are that will make those GPUs run at their full potential.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 10, 2006, 09:30:57 PM
Post by: BigJim on March 10, 2006, 11:38:25 PM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on March 11, 2006, 06:09:04 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on March 12, 2006, 01:04:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
Rev using anything in the R500 class was someone's guess. ATI has said it's not related to any PC card class. It's basically a souped up Flipper.
Ah, guess I was wrong.
Post by: jasonditz on March 12, 2006, 06:52:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I thought the whole point of a console was that it's a fixed platorm with a unified hardware configuration so you don't have to worry about different configurations causing problems?
Didn't seem to cause huge problems when Nintendo introduced the Expansion Pak for the N64. The real benefit of a fixed platform would be saving development time, but if you're already forcing developers to target umpteen resolutions like Sony and MS are, having them add in a few other optional visual effects if it detects a better video card is probably comparatively trivial.
Post by: Galford on March 12, 2006, 07:36:55 PM
From what I understand about the XBox360 hardware, MS pulled a Nintendo and owns
the actual design of the hardware.
IE, the R500 won't be appearing in computers anytime soon.
Post by: airraid1 on March 12, 2006, 08:20:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: DeadlyD
I remember just 12months ago the talk of how the video cards in both are worth 1,000,
uhhh no.
first of all, Xbox 360 and PS3 do not have graphics cards. they have graphics processors / GPUs built directly onto the motherboard, unlike PCs which do have actual cards.
secondly, the Xbox 360 and PS3 graphics processors are custom, they are not found in PCs even though DERIVATIVES of them are, or will be.
the manufacturing costs and retail prices of console GPUs and PC GPUs/graphics cards are structured COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY. there is no comparison. console GPUs are manufactured in the 10s of millions, whereas highend PC graphics cards are manufactured in the tens or hundreds of thousands, or a few million at most. highend PC graphics cards / GPUs are at the highest possible specifications manufacturable, whereas console GPUs use new technology for the time, but do not push the limits of transistor amount, core clockspeed, memory speed, etc. no comparison.
Post by: airraid1 on March 12, 2006, 08:23:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Galford
I always thought the R500 was the code name for the specific XBox360 GPU.
From what I understand about the XBox360 hardware, MS pulled a Nintendo and owns
the actual design of the hardware.
IE, the R500 won't be appearing in computers anytime soon.
R500 was supposedly the codename for the Xbox 360 GPU. it was derived from the never-seen R400 of 2003 which ATI put on hold. much of the technology in the Xbox 360 GPU (C1 aka Xenos) will appear in the upcoming R600 PC GPU.
both the Xbox 360 Xenos/C1 GPU and the PC R600 GPU use technology originally developed for the R400 as I said.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 12, 2006, 08:47:50 PM
Absolutely not. Better vidcards are usually not just faster, they add features and often quirks. If you make a game you have to target one configuration as "this is where it runs perfectly". With MS that configuration is currently XC Core running at 1280x720 (what happens at other resolutions is not your problem as demonstrated by Ubisoft). Add more variables and you only add confusion. Either the better vidcards are useless because games aren't programmed to take advantage of them or you'll have to upgrade your vidcard regularly to keep running the latest games. But there is no upgrade cycle on consoles beyond the generation changes, noone would upgrade just because and games won't target upgrades that have a small userbase. Sure, you could add some trivial effects like GC or XBox ports of PS2 games do but that won't use nearly the full power of the vidcard.
Post by: jasonditz on March 13, 2006, 07:06:40 AM
Nintendo might even be the one to do it... remember, before the Gamecube, every Nintendo system had at least one significant hardware boosting upgrade which was used on a major game.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 13, 2006, 08:10:45 AM
Post by: jasonditz on March 13, 2006, 08:41:15 AM
Post by: wandering on March 13, 2006, 07:16:04 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 13, 2006, 07:39:35 PM
Tho MM turned out to be an even nicer reason to have it.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 13, 2006, 08:53:49 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 13, 2006, 09:01:41 PM
No wonder I don't upgrade for the sake of PC gaming.
Post by: ThePerm on March 14, 2006, 04:52:08 AM
Post by: jasonditz on March 14, 2006, 06:47:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
if every game in the future looks as good as fight night...then we have nothing to worry about
I remember people saying the same thing about Night Trap
Post by: jasonditz on March 14, 2006, 07:02:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Now imagine having three different sizes of memory packs that were released one year apart each, not included with any games and costing 200$ each.
OK... having a lot of them is a bad idea, probably 1, 2 tops. You can definitely do it for under $200, so long as you wait until a few years in. Like right now, suppose the Cube had an option like that, what would a video chip that's markedly superior to the one in the Cube right now cost? $30-$40? Package it at $69.99 with a game that supports it (RE4: Even Better Looking Edition?).
Better still, remember how the Voodoo2's offered SLI mode? Do something like that, let the user add a second identical card so they can run in tandem. 4 years after launch the video system on any of these consoles is cheap enough that's something you could easily pack in with a title.
Same with CPUs... doesn't work so well with the Cube because I don't think the Gecko's got inherent MP support... suppose the next one does (if it's G4 based, it easily could)... suppose you could pop an identical chip in to work in tandem with the existing one and get an 80-90% boost in processing power. It'd be too pricey to do right away, but what's the CPU in the Rev going to cost 3-4 years after launch, $40?
Stuff gets real cheap, real quick... I'd hope Nintendo would have the foresight to take that into account, and maybe something they'd like in the system but just isn't viable right now (like Sony did with the HDD and the network adaptor on the PS2, or like Nintendo did with the extra RAM on the N64, or the extra RAM Sega did with the Saturn)... leave room to add it in later. That stuff might not be a huge selling point, but down the road it might make your system age a little better.
Post by: Nephilim on March 14, 2006, 08:13:08 PM
first of all, Xbox 360 and PS3 do not have graphics cards. they have graphics processors / GPUs built directly onto the motherboard, unlike PCs which do have actual cards.
secondly, the Xbox 360 and PS3 graphics processors are custom, they are not found in PCs even though DERIVATIVES of them are, or will be.
the manufacturing costs and retail prices of console GPUs and PC GPUs/graphics cards are structured COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY. there is no comparison. console GPUs are manufactured in the 10s of millions, whereas highend PC graphics cards are manufactured in the tens or hundreds of thousands, or a few million at most. highend PC graphics cards / GPUs are at the highest possible specifications manufacturable, whereas console GPUs use new technology for the time, but do not push the limits of transistor amount, core clockspeed, memory speed, etc. no comparison."
your arguement is offically dead
voodoo pc now come with 2 7800 gpu's built in
NOWAY a 360 graphics chip could even compare with that power, yet guess what its 2 400dollar american chips put together
COD2 looked like it had 8x antaliasing for 360, noway can compare to 32x antaliasing
Post by: jasonditz on March 15, 2006, 05:10:23 AM
Plus, I'm not proposing ATI start whipping out graphics upgrades for consoles by themselves, I'm proposing the console manufacturer offer the upgrades as an option. Something like SLI-mode on Voodoo 2's could be great there, because then they don't have to worry about a new GPU... they just add a second identical one and some more RAM in the addon. Of course support for something like that would have to be designed into the system. Maybe next generation...
Anyhow the 360 just launched, of course the better graphics chips will be more expensive right now. Lets re-examine this in 4 years and see what a pair of 7800's go for. Then imagine what a company that's liable to be ordering millions of them could get them for.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 15, 2006, 06:52:10 AM
And the software! Don't forget that.
Post by: jasonditz on March 15, 2006, 09:01:15 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on March 15, 2006, 09:14:50 AM
Post by: jasonditz on March 15, 2006, 09:50:15 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on March 15, 2006, 10:41:09 PM
Post by: jasonditz on March 16, 2006, 07:18:20 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on March 16, 2006, 07:23:55 AM
