Post by: Requiem on March 02, 2006, 08:19:52 PM
Sure there hasn't been a single screen-shot. Sure there hasn't been many specific titles officially announced. But like I always say, quality over quantity.
Nintendo is bringing their AAA game with this launch. Never has a launch had so much potential.
Think about it, if the following list ends up true, then we have an awesome launch on our hands. One that tops any previous generation.
First/Second Parties AAA titles
Legend of Zelda: People hate the idea of Zelda becoming a GC/REV title, but the fact is, Nintendo would be stupid to ignore an oppurtinity like this. This game will be great no matter which way you play it, but the game is dripping with potential. If all goes well, and the NRC is programmed into the Zelda Universe brilliantly, then we have a killer app on our hands.
Mario 128: Though we had some startling news about how the game is progressing, I feel confident that Miyamoto will pull through with an amazing game. There is so much you can do in the Mario universe. Many of us feel that Mario should go back to his roots, and if the DS is any indication, it looks as though he is. Imagine a sick blend of 3d Mario and 2d Mario. This game will definitely be a game to experience.
Super Smash Bros. Online: I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel the only thing SSBM was missing was human opponents. I bought it when it first came out, and I am still not bored with the game. If there are opponents, especially good ones, I could see myself never getting bored with it. Now Nintendo has heeded our calls and added online to the Revolution version. If they were to simply add online, I would be a happy man. But the fact is that they're not. They're going to expand on every aspect of the game. Adding new charachters, levels, items, customes, modes, events, options, and yes, even players. I feel that the transition to Online and LAN will open up the possibility for 8-player melee. Imagine a level like Hyrule Castle, but with 8-players. The only problem I see is the camera, but other than that it will be hysterical. A definite AAA title and possible Killer App.
Camelot RPG: Honestly, expect a huge blowout of media to salivate over at E3. This game has been in the works for years, and with a staff of 40 or so people, something amazing is coming. Could it be Golden Sun or is it some new IP? Whatever it is, I have complete faith in Camelot's abilities. The simple fact that an RPG is on the way is good news, but one from Camelot is far more heart-warming than say....Square. If it is Golden Sun, imagine the possibilities. All the tech magic, such as pushing, lifting, grabbing, and pulling, can now be done with the NRC. Precision wasn't needed in a 2d game, but in 3d, the NRC will go along way. I expect this game to be at least 40 hours long with secrets out the ass. Again, this title has been in developement for a very long time. Camelot + NRC + time = AAA title.
Metriod Prime 3: Arguably my favorite game of this generation. The immersitivity factor was outstanding. They polished the game from head to toe, so much so, that I have yet to encounter a bug or glitch after playing it 4 times. Retro knows how important this debut is, and I am sure they will rise to the challenge. They are in fact, one of the most creative teams this generation....easily. I mean, who thought Metriod as a FPA would be as sick as it is? Retro knows what they are doing, and even though the sequel wasn't widely appreciated, I think it had more to do with there not being much room for improvement rather than it being uncreative. Metriod Prime hit the nail on the head and there really wasn't much you could improve. Now, the NRC will play the most important role in making MP3 feel fresh. Just like Zelda, this game is dripping with potential.
New IP: Who knows what the hell this could be. What I do know is that this game HAS to be an AAA title in order to be recognized as a new, legit IP. If anyone could do such a thing, it's Nintendo.
The resurrection of an old IP: I don't know what this could be, but all signs point to Kid Icarus. I could really care less what old IP they use, I just know they are going to use one. It's like Samus coming to the cube, when her last console game was on the SNES. This one, I doubt, will make it in time for the launch window, but I would expect it next summer after a huge E3 showing. Super Punch Out! anyone?
WaveRace: As a WaveRace fanatic, I am just adding this to the list because of how much I desire it. Needless to say, the NRC could provide some pin-point precision.
Mario Paint / WarioWare: I always thought about how brilliant it would be to combine the two series into one amazing game. Mario Paint has stolen hours of my life, and though I only played the GBA version of WarioWare, I can see why it's a cult classic. If they released these seperately, they would probably charge $30 and see moderately good sales for both (actually I see Mario Paint taking off). However, if they were to launch it together, this game would become the next Brain Training. Flesh out the artistic part of Mario Paint, with a more robust music program and give WarioWare many different actions to perform (eg, NRC game demos) and it'll sell. This is another fantasy game....an AAA title if true. However, I know Nintendo will probably ignore the obvious and simply release WarioWare (which I am 100% sure they will).
There are other games that have potential, I just don't see them acheiving the high level of quality that these games will. Those games include N-space projects, Battalion Wars, and so on....
Also, I don't know jack about Animal Crossing, MarioKart, DonkeyKong, and all the other IP's Nintendo is juggling around. If any of them make it for launch, and another AAA title to the list.
Also, let's not forget about the Virtual Console. I see myself spending equal time with the old and the new, so it is worth a mention as a launch title(s).
Third Parties AAA titles
Capcom: Capcom isn't stupid. They are a very profitable gaming company, and will continue to be so. They are developing a game for launch that supposedly isn't RE. No offence, but whoever believes this is an idiot. When Nintendo introduced the NRC, it almost beckoned Capcom to incorporate it into an RE4 type game. I mean, the game with a simple technological jump (graphics, AI, charachters onscreen) would be amazing, but the game with a tech jump and the NRC would be truly special. And how many times did Reggie, when asked about what games could be made possible or better with the NRC, mention a survival-horror game where you roam around with a gun and flashlight only. He had to of said that on three seperate occasions.
Many have speculated how scary it would be if you were to roam around in complete darkness with nothing but a flashlight and gun in tow. You can only see what you illuminate, and you can only shoot what you can see (well, kinda). I would walk around the deserted village PARANIOD of anything....EVERYTHING. If they add a couple creatures, that idly SCARE THE CRAP OUT OF YOU by running around or knocking over things, then it's over. RE can finally be scary. Mark my words, Capcom will unviel RE REV at E3.
Oh ya, if true.......easily a killer app.
UbiSoft: They are making a FPS. Also, it has been said that they have another game in the works....exclusive for revolution. Any FPS should be leaps and bounds better than any generic crap (i.e. Halo 2) that we get today. The reason I have such a better time playing FPS's on my computer is that the control scheme doesn't make me feel disabled or limited. The dual-analog system is the worst thing to happen to console FPS. Honestly, nothing beats GoldenEye and PerfectDark in terms of control, speed, and overall fun factor. Maybe the NRC's awesome ability for control and speed can finally make console FPS's feel fresh and fun again. Any indication of a FPS (Metriod is not a FPS) on the REV is a damn good start. Now, I just wish TimeSplitters would make a debut.
EA: Say what you want about EA. The fact is, they are one of the most profitable publishers today. I don't really care for there sports except for FIFA, however, if Fight Night were to debut with dual NRC control and online, then you definetly have a hit. With total control of the boxer's actions, despite any amount of graphical updates, nothing will get you more immersed into that world. The 360/PS3 version will look archaic compared to what Nintendo has.
Also, Burnout, my favorite racer for this generation, would do well with the NRC.
That's all.....
There are a couple more games that should interest us, such as Trauma Center which will be an incredible experence, whatever the hell Suda 51 is making, Sonic, FF:CC, and Harvest Moon.
With the list above, granted a few that never make it to launch, I still believe I will have the most fun I've ever had during any console's launch period.
Post by: TMW on March 02, 2006, 08:48:05 PM
TOTALLY.
And, SOMEONE was quoted as saying that Mario 128 wouldn't be available at launch...so that one comes off the list.
If we get MP3 at launch, I'll be pleasantly surprised...
But really. SSBMOnline will probably be the only game I play for quite a while, barring a simultaneous Rev/TP launch.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 02, 2006, 08:51:49 PM
Post by: wandering on March 02, 2006, 09:22:08 PM
I was going to make a new topic about it, but it's so monumentally uninteresting that I thought I'd just say it here.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on March 02, 2006, 10:02:14 PM
Post by: Fro on March 03, 2006, 04:04:54 AM
Smash Brothers is a confirmed launch title.
Prime 3 probably will come out before Christmas (Retro will have over 2 years to work on it).
Iwata wants Mario 128 as a launch title (and that game has probably been worked on since before Sunshine came out). Matt from IGN knows little about what's going on in Nintendo Japan.
The New IP will be a launch title
Zelda will come out around the same time as the revolution
Camelot's been working on their RPG for a long time
Nintendo Pennant Chase Baseball pretty much just disappeared, probably being reworked as a revolution title.
There probably will be a Wario Ware type game to show off the controller.
Final Fantasy: CC should be good with the online play
Ubisoft's FPS is supposed to be great
Plus throw in games from the usual suspects (Capcom, Namco, Sega, EA) and it will be a very strong launch.
Nintendo would be idiots to launch with just two or three first party games with all the competition they're facing. They need all their big guns and they have them lined up to possibly use them in the launch window.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 03, 2006, 05:47:29 AM
They NEED the variety sot hey can satisfy everybody, not force ou to buy the system one one or two games alone, not everybody is a fan of Metroid so nto everyone will care if its available at launch, MP series hasnt been selling that well on GC so dont expect it to be a killer app on REV people will remeber NOT likeing it on GC and will have that in mind when it comes to REV, regardless fo the controls. BUT having PM3 will get the Metroid fans n board right away
they need a solid line up and Requeim hit it dead on, Nintendo cant afford to release two or theree games and wait six months to release two or three more, they need toshow peopel RIGHT OFF THE BAT that the revolution is THE system to own and that it has all the games you need. Wehn you looking at yor competitirs launching with 10 to 15 games youc ant have a laucnh with five or six and expect to get noticed.
Also everybody sits here and bashes PS3.3^0 for being more of the same, I wont get into how stupid THAT argument is here, but i will say then you turn around and say that More Metroid, More Zelda, More Mario, More Smash Bros tahastw hta will draw people in ?!?! I Dont get yo guys. face reality. NIntendo IS still a good compnay BUT tehre are game makers out there who are JUST AS GOOD who havent yet confimred anythign for the system. We have a noce potentila launch lineup shaping up but Nintendo cant win over NON Nintendo fans with Nintendo franchises.
They will need NEW IP that will attract everyone along with thier hits to seal the deal for the old fans on the fence. Everybody on these boards who blindly floowws what evr BS Nintendo says will get a rev just cuz its Nintendo, but Nintendos fanbase shrinks every gen so dont ecpect NINTENDOS franshises didnt doa damn bit of good for GC and I dont expect them to matter for teh REV. NOT if we only get 1 or two at a time that is.
The launch is the most important time perios for the system and it HAS to gobetter than 360 did and has to drown out ps3. They need to have no less than 5 big hits themselves and there gonna need twice that many 3rd party games, who cares if somethign gets drowned out if its good it will have sales througout its life,theres GC launchgames still getting sold in stores today.
Post by: zakkiel on March 03, 2006, 05:55:12 AM
QuoteSo Capcom decided to lie about what sort of game they're developing for... kicks and giggles?
They are developing a game for launch that supposedly isn't RE. No offence, but whoever believes this is an idiot.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 03, 2006, 06:09:25 AM
Post by: MaryJane on March 03, 2006, 06:11:43 AM
Quote
Also everybody sits here and bashes PS3.3^0 for being more of the same, I wont get into how stupid THAT argument is here, but i will say then you turn around and say that More Metroid, More Zelda, More Mario, More Smash Bros tahastw hta will draw people in ?!?! I Dont get yo guys. face reality. NIntendo IS still a good compnay BUT tehre are game makers out there who are JUST AS GOOD who havent yet confimred anythign for the system. We have a noce potentila launch lineup shaping up but Nintendo cant win over NON Nintendo fans with Nintendo franchises.
I agree you can't bash the ps3 people are gonna buy no matter how crappy it is. Although I must say that it does have some superb games. Also I agree with you on the point of nintendo releasing their old franchises, why the hell should they release their highest selling games ever? How could that possibly make people want to buy their system? especially when mp3 is going to be the proof of their claim that the rev is best system for fps's why would they release that game? And there are so many game makers just as good as nintendo, which is why no on wishes they had nintendo's franchises, which is why no jumps at the chance to make games for their old franchises. Nintendo should stop making mario games, i mean come on, after no one like sunshine, and super smash bros? why release that? wasn't it the one the highest if not the highest selling gc game? why would they put that kind of crap on the rev? and make it online? man nintendo has no sense of business strategy.
(psssssssssssst. it's all lies)
Seriously though, I don't think the rev will initially beat out the ps3, it has no choice to but to beat the severly lack luster 360 launch, but be reasonable the ps2 was the biggest last gen, so sony would obviously have the biggest fanboy base, there are tons of people who can't even fathom getting a different system besides a ps3. even though everyone I know who had a ps3 is currently on their 3rd system. but still the ps3 is going to have the best launch, and nintendo's best hope is to be a closer 2nd this time around, or overtake them in the long run. And everyone is a nintendo fan who has played video games whether they know it or not, cuz nintendo is everything video games. how many people are gonna say, wow that new zelda looks great, or man i miss playing mario, and this one looks like a serious contender, everyone loves and recognizes nintedo's franchises, and once mp3 gets ooodles and ooooodles of love people will know samus's name like they know their own.
Edit: I screwed up the quote thing, so i fixed it.
Post by: clevelandst124 on March 03, 2006, 06:55:09 AM
I also feel that Nintendo entirely dropped the ball with the new Zelda game. It would have been a great Revolution title. 2 games I hear most about are Goldeneye and Ocarina of Time. This game would have brought all of the Zelda fans back. Now anyone who is still needs a Zelda fix will buy it for the gamecube. And new fans that it could have brought back will dismiss it as last generation and won't consider it in deciding whether to get a rev, ps2, or 360. And now if they decide to bring it over they are all liars because they have guaranteed it will be on the gamecube.
Next, I believe the rat is correct. Alot of developers are sitting on the fence with the revolution. They say the right things in the public but they are waiting to see how good it does because there is large doubt surrounding it. So I don't expect the Revolution to get more than 15-20 3rd party games in the first half year of the revolution. They need to do it themselves if they are they are going to get back to the top of the food pyramid. Plus there really is no reason not to load up with 6-8 launch titles. Remember that crappy DS launch? Spiderman sold over a quarter million copies. It sold because there was only that game and Mario 64. And the DS had an amazingly low tie ratio until the games came. If Nintendo launched with 6-8 launch titles they would have at least a 4-5 tie ratio which is amazing for a launching system and would make Nintendo fans and developers jump onto the system.
Lastly, Nintendo has a huge opportunity in front of them. If Xbox 360 sells out they will have sold approximately 7-8 million worldwide at the end of year based on their current production. (Speculatively) if PS3 sells out they will be lucky to have 4 million systems to homes by the end of the year. The reason for these production problems is that they are using extremely new technology. The PS3 has the whole blue-ray, cell chip issues. The xbox 360 has the chip production issues. The revolution shouldn't have any of this. They are making a gamecube 2. They shouldn't have any overheating, chip, or graphics cards problems because the technology they are using is older and more established. There is really no reason why the Revolution should not be able to ship 10 million units by year end especially if they finalize the unit soon. And if this happens..... No supply problems, key price point, Nintento Revolution could be in the lead at the end of the year. All they need is the games to push consumers over the edge and the supply that the xbox 360 and ps3 will lack.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 03, 2006, 07:11:00 AM
Great point. If Mario, Zelda and Metroid didn't sell someone a Cube why would it sell them a Rev? I think Nintendo's best launch lineup was for the SNES. They had Super Mario World which was the big sequel to the popular franchise but they also had F-Zero and Pilotwings which were brand new games entirely that blew everyone away. I agree that the new IP is everything. That will sell Revs, not yet another Mario game.
The launch lineup suggested by Requiem is ridiculously unrealistic. It's just not going to happen even if Nintendo wants it to. And since we haven't seen any games yet I think it's way too early to be talking about launch, particularly when it comes to making outrageous statements like "best launch ever". No way a company with this weak of third party support is going to have the best launch ever anyway.
I just hope the launch has that has one insanely huge game that just totally sells the Rev concept and everyone wants to play. Something with that Super Mario 64 level of impact.
"especially when mp3 is going to be the proof of their claim that the rev is best system for fps's why would they release that game?"
If they make Metroid Prime 3 a first person shooter I won't buy it. If I could somehow sabotage the sales of such a title I would. Anyone who wants Metroid to play like Halo isn't a real Metroid fan and doesn't deserve to have the franchise ruined to suit their tastes. If you don't like Metroid then tough sh!t.
Post by: Magik on March 03, 2006, 07:31:08 AM
Nintendo needs games that demonstrate what the controller is about and prove to people why they should buy it instead of the PS3 or 360.
Post by: RiskyChris on March 03, 2006, 07:42:38 AM
Post by: MaryJane on March 03, 2006, 07:56:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane<brIf they make Metroid Prime 3 a first person shooter I won't buy it. If I could somehow sabotage the sales of such a title I would. Anyone who wants Metroid to play like Halo isn't a real Metroid fan and doesn't deserve to have the franchise ruined to suit their tastes. If you don't like Metroid then tough sh!t.
Huh? unless you're being technical and think i should have put fpa's? cuz i don't know if you noticed but the first two in the prime series were in first person. so why wouldn't the end of the trilogy also be in first person? and nintendo doesn't make generic games from what i've seen, they might get a little stir crazy like the water pack in sunshine (although i liked it just cuz of how much you could mess around with it).
Post by: Ian Sane on March 03, 2006, 08:12:58 AM
Everyone talks about how well the Rev will control for first person shooters and then you said the Metroid Prime 3 would prove this. If Metroid Prime 3 plays like a first person shooter then it becomes a first person shooter. The lock-on system in Metroid Prime 1 & 2 isn't just a workaround for a keyboard/mouse setup that wasn't possible on the Cube. It's designed so that you don't have to be an FPS expert to play the game. It removes the hassle of aiming (which wasn't an issue in the 2D games) so that you can concentrate on the exploration which is the whole point of Metroid. If Metroid Prime 3 stays true to the Metroid series then it won't prove that the Rev is the ideal system for first person shooters because it won't be an FPS and therefore by definition can't prove that. All the idiots that complain that Metroid Prime doesn't play like Halo should still be making that same complaint about Metroid Prime 3.
"What's going to sell the Revolution isn't just the new IP, but the new, innovative way of playing games."
People have to notice the new innovative way of playing games and a new IP is the best way to demonstrate that because people will naturally assume it's new. Most Mario games are different but few notice because all they see is a new Mario game coming out every two months. If the people that think Nintendo just rehash the same stuff over and over again see a new Mario game they're not going to give it a chance and thus won't discover the innovation. They'll just write it off as another Mario game.
Post by: Fro on March 03, 2006, 08:38:50 AM
Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker were disappointments. Smash Brothers was a great game that sold a lot but didn't appeal to casuals. Metroid Prime was a FPA, no multiplayer, with ads that showed little gameplay.
The most important thing for Nintendo is to sell systems at this point. Smash Brothers will sell to existing Nintendo fans. The new Zelda and a more FPS-style Metroid Prime 3 showing off the new controller will draw in casual gamers. The revmote will make these old franchises more unique.
No doubt they need to show a new game or two, but they need their franchises at launch (or in the launch window) to compete with what Microsoft and Sony will have. If they sit on their heels, they could get buried very quickly.
If there's multiple "killer apps" launching with the system, everyone will buy a Revolution and 3rd parties will fully support the system. Simple as that.
Post by: MaryJane on March 03, 2006, 09:01:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Everyone talks about how well the Rev will control for first person shooters and then you said the Metroid Prime 3 would prove this. If Metroid Prime 3 plays like a first person shooter then it becomes a first person shooter. The lock-on system in Metroid Prime 1 & 2 isn't just a workaround for a keyboard/mouse setup that wasn't possible on the Cube. It's designed so that you don't have to be an FPS expert to play the game. It removes the hassle of aiming (which wasn't an issue in the 2D games) so that you can concentrate on the exploration which is the whole point of Metroid. If Metroid Prime 3 stays true to the Metroid series then it won't prove that the Rev is the ideal system for first person shooters because it won't be an FPS and therefore by definition can't prove that. All the idiots that complain that Metroid Prime doesn't play like Halo should still be making that same complaint about Metroid Prime 3.
doesn't the ability to just point at an enemy would negate the need for a lock on system?. although i wouldn't be surprised if it was still included, but personally i think i'd try to play without it i would only use it for multiplayer. bcuz the only reason i used it in the first two was as you said, an fps expert is good at aiming strafing and shooting all at the same time, while those of us who suck at games (like me) like the ability to lock on, then strafe and shoot, making the job easier and as u said you can concentrate on other things. but point and shooting would be great and i can't wait, would you say that mp:h isn't an fpa cuz it doesnt use lock on, and has a heavy focus on multiplayer?
but i think you're being way to technical. in essence mp3 is an fps. its in first person view and you shoot things. hence first person shooter. however, it is also largely an exploration game and doesn't play like a traditional fps in the sense that there are no level objectives, and other things that make fps's linear. but to say that an fpa isn't an fps, is like saying an action-rpg isn't really an rpg cuz it doesn't use turn based battles. maybe this is a discussion for a new topic. but initially this has to be the proof that the rev is ideal for fps, bcuz at it's core mp3 is an fps, just a modified one and if it doesn't make amazing use of the nrc and the nunchuck skepticism will rise to all new heights (and i bet you'd be first in line).
the games are very well modified. it really isn't right to call it an fps, bcuz it is so much more, but at the core it is an fps, like you wouldn't a human cells right? but cells are what allow our body to be a body, and to live, we are cells, but we are so much more than that, that we call ourselves humans (that might be a bad analogy but you can get the point). i love the metroid games i beat the first one 3 times (and i still couldn't get 100% completion cuz i suck and don't use gamefaqs unless i'm stuck and after an hour of trying on my own i still can't get passed something) and i'm working on beating the second one for the third time.
someone said that there weren't any glitches in the mp series, i found one. in the second one, in one of the rooms where you use the sonic visor (is that what its called my memory is kind of shot) to find those points that are keeping a certain door locked, i shot two of those points, left the room, went and did a whole bunch of other stuff, came back, shot the last point, and the door wouldn't open. i had to start a new game, i spent 8 hours trying to figure out how to get past that point without starting a new game, i was pretty pissed and took 2 weeks off before starting a new game. but that was probably more my fault, but i still feel the game should have allowed for it.
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 03, 2006, 09:06:58 AM
It doesn't have to be a new IP, I believe. I think what'll sell the Revolution is just a truly exceptional game, something that'll make people go wow. Mario 64 did it for N64. Of course I think a new IP has the most potential to do this, simply because it has no pre-existing formula to deal with.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 03, 2006, 09:19:30 AM
If it's not a new IP it has to be a new take on an old one. Like how Metroid went 3D with Prime (and Ian, Metroid Prime DID sell Cubes). An improved Zelda OOT or another 3d Mario won't cut it.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 03, 2006, 09:25:56 AM
Metroid Prime Hunters isn't an FPA because it plays nothing like one. At least the demo that came with the DS sure as hell doesn't. There is no point in allowing people to aim in Metroid Prime because the game is designed so that you don't need to. There is no advantage whatsoever for having that option. So it's useless. To make it useful they have to change the game to play like a first person shooter. It's like jumping in the 3D Zelda games. The game never needs you to have a jump button so having a jump button provides no advantage and if they made it so that you have to have a jump button the game would lose track of the main focus on the series.
Too many have this idea that Metroid Prime is just Halo with a lock-on and that somehow there be a huge benefit to playing through the game with FPS controls. That's not how it works.
"I think what'll sell the Revolution is just a truly exceptional game, something that'll make people go wow. Mario 64 did it for N64."
Super Mario 64 had an advantage no Rev game has. When it was first shown Nintendo was the market leader and thus everyone paid attention to it. It was a fantastic groundbreaking game but at the time both Nintendo and Mario were still popular. Metroid Prime was an amazing game but it wasn't marketed well and no one paid attention to it so it didn't sell like it could have. And who would have paid attention to it without any extra incentive? It's a Nintendo franchise game, Nintendo rehashes, so it must suck. That's not good logic but it's the biased attitude a lot of people have. Meanwhile Halo is being hailed as this incredibly influencial game and gets credited by sources that should know their sh!t as one of the greatest games of all time when in reality it's pretty unexceptional and is largely insignificant in the development of the FPS genre. But it was a new IP so people thought it was more original than it really was. MS released a cliche game with a new name on it and everyone thought it was fresh and new while Nintendo put old names on original games and everyone assumed it was the same stuff over again.
Post by: Artimus on March 03, 2006, 09:33:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Metroid Prime was an amazing game but it wasn't marketed well and no one paid attention to it so it didn't sell like it could have.
It sold well over a million copies, duh?
Post by: MaryJane on March 03, 2006, 09:50:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Metroid Prime Hunters isn't an FPA because it plays nothing like one. At least the demo that came with the DS sure as hell doesn't. There is no point in allowing people to aim in Metroid Prime because the game is designed so that you don't need to. There is no advantage whatsoever for having that option. So it's useless. To make it useful they have to change the game to play like a first person shooter. It's like jumping in the 3D Zelda games. The game never needs you to have a jump button so having a jump button provides no advantage and if they made it so that you have to have a jump button the game would lose track of the main focus on the series.
a few things here
1. think about how old the demo is compared to when this game is being released. do you really think it took them all that time just to add wifi?
2. what do u mean there's no point in allowing people to aim? you could aim in metroid prime if you wanted to. didn't you have to AIM at the grapple points and other such points situated high on the levels?
3. the games do play like a first person shooter. the greatest difference between metroid and typical fps's is the ability to free roam environments, and not have linear missions and boards. not the controls. the controls are pretty similar except the dual analog control which i believe is a byproduct of giving an easy way of changing visors and beams. and aiming vs. lock on. are you going to tell me that all a developer has to do to make an fpa is take away aiming and add lock on? of course not.
4. how would having a jump button lose track of the main focus of the series? imagine the don't change anything about the game, there were lots of point in OoT where link had to jump, it was done automatically but he had to jump nonetheless. how does a button assignment or making something automatic change a whole series?
mainly i'm asking for an elaboration of what i quoted, cuz either i don't understand what you're saying, or you don't know what you're talking about. and i'm actually less inclined to believe the latter.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 03, 2006, 11:01:42 AM
So why add aiming if it's not needed? It's just a waste of time. The original Metroid Prime would have no advantage if manual aiming was added to it.
Nintendo doesn't half-ass stuff. They don't include features you don't need and they design their games really tight so that everything fits really well. If they switched the aiming to manual and had otherwise the same design all they would do is make the game more difficult to play. It would be the same game only without lock-on. If they switched to manual aiming they whole game would be redesigned to make effective use of the new way to aim. The game would focus more on shooting.
Metroid isn't about shooting so making it focus on it would go against the Metroid design. Metroid fans have certain skills they're good at due to their familiarity with the series. They are not necessarily good at FPS games. Why should they be? If the game now requires FPS skills then hardcore Metroid fans may find they suck at the game. That would be pretty annoying and just outright unfair for the fans.
Zelda having a jump button would be the same way. To make the jump button useful the game would have platforming elements in it. Zelda fans aren't necessarily good at platforming games and would now be expected to.
Metroid Prime doesn't play like a first person shooter. It doesn't require good FPS skills to complete and it requires way more exploration and problem solving skills then a typical FPS. To consider it an FPS to me is like to consider Super Metroid a run 'n' gun shooter because in screenshots it looks like Contra.
"It sold well over a million copies, duh?"
I know but it didn't sell like it should have considering its quality. That Christmas Splinter Cell outsold it and the Xbox pulled ahead of the Cube. That should not have happened. Metroid Prime was a better game and it should have allowed the Cube to secure the number two position.
Post by: MaryJane on March 03, 2006, 11:32:27 AM
Quote
Nintendo doesn't half-ass stuff. They don't include features you don't need and they design their games really tight so that everything fits really well. If they switched the aiming to manual and had otherwise the same design all they would do is make the game more difficult to play. It would be the same game only without lock-on.
mp1 and 2 both had the same gameplay. was the second game the same as the first? i must've missed something if it was. so why would they make mp3 the same game but harder? it would be a completely new adventure, and much better.
I think you're thinking is too narrow. aiming is hard with a traditional controller. (imagine how hard duck hunt would have been without the light gun) but with the nrc aiming will be a natural function. raise your hand if when you first started playing video games like mario, and you wanted to make him jump really far you would move the controller to, subconscienciously hoping it would help him jump further. ::raises hand::
maybe the game will be harder without lock-on, hey i'm up for the challenge, which is one of the reasons I can't wait the virtual console. there are so many games from the nes and snes days that i plain couldn't beat because of how hard they were, i miss games like that, the fun in them was repeatedly trying to beat them. I say bring on the difficulty.
Just because they take out lock-on doesn't mean they're going to redesign the whole game. Why would they shoot themselves in the foot like that? This game is called Metroid Prime 3, it's a triquel ( i know that's not a word) why wouldn't it follow the same game formula as the its two predecessors?
if Microsoft took over Nintendo they'd probably try to do that, make it into a really good fps. Nintendo happens to be smart, they wouldn't completely change the gameplay just because you can't lock on anymore. and it's not going to be the same game but harder either. Nintendo doesn't half-ass things remember? They have to sell the idea of the nrc and nunchuck, this is the perfect game to do it with. unless of course u'd prefer they'd make a sequel to luigi's mansion cuz i think that would also make good use of the two of them.
Oh yeah one other thing from your post; NINTENDO DOESN'T INCLUDE FEATURES YOU DON'T NEED???????? you say that? after how much you cried about them not including HD in the rev. and how they're trying to think for us, and tell us what we want? and i figure you were talking about their games, but they use the same priniciples to innovate their games as they do their consoles. although it was one of things you said I agreed with.
Post by: RiskyChris on March 03, 2006, 11:53:23 AM
Though some may argue that Link's Awakening was part platformer, as far as the Zelda series goes =)
Post by: ThePerm on March 03, 2006, 02:20:58 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 03, 2006, 02:38:53 PM
Where did people get this idea anyway? no one has ever said both of these games are going to be launch titles.
Post by: Mario on March 03, 2006, 02:39:20 PM
Quote
If they make Metroid Prime 3 a first person shooter I won't buy it. If I could somehow sabotage the sales of such a title I would. Anyone who wants Metroid to play like Halo isn't a real Metroid fan and doesn't deserve to have the franchise ruined to suit their tastes. If you don't like Metroid then tough sh!t.
LOL or maybe a FPS can be a good game, don't Metroid fans like good games? I agree somewhat (and I want to keep the exploration / immersion as the main aspect), but that's just insane.
Anyways TokyoEAD have to be working on a game right now, Jungle Beat has been finished for over a year, and NST must surely have something. I think we're going to see a pretty crowded launch...
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Its impossible that we are going to get both Mario and Metroid at launch, its just too good to be true.
Where did people get this idea anyway? no one has ever said both of these games are going to be launch titles.
If they are it'll be a new Mario, Metroid and Zelda game all at the same time
Post by: Shorty McNostril on March 03, 2006, 03:41:53 PM
I agree with ian also that using an fps style would make the game more difficult, and there has been plenty of complaining about the difficulty of prime 2 with lock-on.
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on March 03, 2006, 04:28:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
If they are it'll be a new Mario, Metroid and Zelda game all at the same time
Super Smash Brothers Revolution??? I'm game!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 03, 2006, 05:31:21 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 03, 2006, 06:40:36 PM
We believe Mario will be launched because the President of Nintendo commented on this fact. He personally asked Miyamoto to make Mario a priority for launch. You don't take a directive from your company President very lightly. This game is being pushed for launch in a big way.
Finally, Super Smash Brothers Melee is also being pushed for launch. Two of these games we know Nintendo desperately wants to get out at launch.
Nintendo probably feels Metroid is needed for the US launch as a mature title, so I think it is safe to say these games will be out within 4 months launch if not on launch day already.
Remember, Nintendo has slown down Gamecube development for some time, and they are very busy prepping games for a launch. Read how many games just from Nintendo are being prepared. Not all these games will be launch games, but you know the first year of the Revolution is being prepped to include a nice lineup (hopefully with very little drought.)
If there is a drought we have the virtual console to keep us busy.
Post by: decoyman on March 03, 2006, 07:38:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MaryJane
I think you're thinking is too narrow. aiming is hard with a traditional controller. (imagine how hard duck hunt would have been without the light gun) but with the nrc aiming will be a natural function. raise your hand if when you first started playing video games like mario, and you wanted to make him jump really far you would move the controller to, subconscienciously hoping it would help him jump further. ::raises hand::
MaryJane's got a point here. Anyone who's played a FPS on a computer with a keyboard and mouse knows how easy it is to run and gun quickly and accurately. After being raised on FPSs on the computer with mouselook, I've hated playing console FPSs because of the clunky, groggy movement and aiming of the dual analog setup. Metroid Prime 1/2 sidestepped this by offering lock-on. But now, both the revmote AND the touchscreen on the DS allow a similar sort of freedom, so they're taking advantage of it.
... But Ian also has a point, in that the distinction between the two game types (FPS vs. FPA) is becoming somewhat blurred with MP:H. Of course, changing such a basic feature as lock-on or free-aim is going to change the emphasis of the action somewhat. But how much? And I don't think that the only difference between a FPA and a FPS is in having or not having lock-on. The big unknown right now is the single player quest. If it's as beefy as has been implied, and more importantly, there's major emphasis put on exploration (the single-most distinguishing characteristic between a FPS and a FPA for me), then I'd still label this game a FPA.
Come on, though, we can argue all night long about what genre to classify this game under... Allow me to pose a question: would a Metroid game by any other genre name still play as sweet?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on March 03, 2006, 07:59:44 PM
Post by: IceCold on March 03, 2006, 08:14:34 PM
Mario Party should skip a year and not be released around the Rev launch. This would keep it fresher (well, for MP that is), and also it would allow Hudson to make an unforgettable Mario Party game. Online, crazy NRC minigames, maybe a few select "best of" minigames..
QuotePaper Mario 3?
BUT having PM3 will get the Metroid fans n board right away
The only thing I got from Ian's last post is that he is bad at FPSes and platformers
Post by: Plugabugz on March 04, 2006, 12:31:42 AM
Post by: Jensen on March 04, 2006, 12:33:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
The only thing I got from Ian's last post is that he is bad at FPSes and platformers
I don't know how you could be good at Metroid Prime, and bad at FPSs. Metroid is already a tough action game, in addition to exploration. It's not like adding shooting elements to Myst...
Most of the bosses in MP break your lock-on, so you constantly have to aim in a (general) direction to lock on. That can be much more frustrating than just aiming with a faster, more acurate pointer.
Post by: Magik on March 04, 2006, 03:30:36 AM
Back to the topic, I don't agree with using the virtual console as a substitute for new games. I want new games. I want to experience new ways of playing games, not playing old traditional style games. For some people, the virtual console can be used to fill the gap for droughts, but for most, I doubt it.
I actually wonder about SSB and Mario being launch titles because from all indications, it doesn't look like it's going to be launch titles. From what I remember, development for SSB just started last year so it only leaves what? A year and half before launch?
Mario worries me because we've been hearing that Mario 128 was coming out 'soon'.... well the boat for GC has left and we're still no closer to an actually release date. Having Iwata ask Miyamoto to get it done soon worries me as well cause what if he has to rush the game? Does anybody want to end up with what happened at the end of Zelda:WW?
The launch is shaping up to be more interesting rather than exciting as you think more about it.
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 04, 2006, 04:31:58 AM
The Nintendo Revolution might be the best controller for FPS ever. You can literally treat aiming like you are using a light gun, and when you get to the edges of the screen is when the screen starts to move with the character.
First Person Shooters on the Revolution COULD practically be a completely different genre with that kind of advancement. More like playing that Resident Evil light gun game, then a traditional FPS.
This will give games like Metroid Prime more freedom to create intense bosses that require precision aiming to hit weaknesses, and will open up the game to greater puzzles and gameplay in the end.
I believe that Metroid Prime 3 will be the defining FPS of the next generation, and then I predict a whole lot of clones to pop up on the Revolution to just copy the control style.
Post by: wandering on March 04, 2006, 05:58:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Super Mario 64 had an advantage no Rev game has. When it was first shown Nintendo was the market leader and thus everyone paid attention to it. It was a fantastic groundbreaking game but at the time both Nintendo and Mario were still popular. Metroid Prime was an amazing game but it wasn't marketed well and no one paid attention to it so it didn't sell like it could have. And who would have paid attention to it without any extra incentive? It's a Nintendo franchise game, Nintendo rehashes, so it must suck. That's not good logic but it's the biased attitude a lot of people have.
People paid attention to mario 64 because it was the first well-made 3d platformer and set the standard for 3d game design. The fact that NIntendo was the market leader had little to do with Mario 64's success. The fact that Metroid was a franchise game had little to do with it's (relative) failure....after all, Mario 64 was a franchise game too.
Oh, and you guys can stop arguing about mp3's lock-on now. Gamespot:
Quote
The analog stick controlled your movement. The A button let you jump, while the B button fired your weapon. The shoulder buttons on the analog attachment let you switch visors, scan, and lock on to targets, although the lock-on feature was less necessary thanks to the precision firing available via just looking around with the controller. You could shift to the morph ball by pressing the select button on the main controller's face, which felt surprisingly comfortable to do in the middle of action.
Post by: mantidor on March 04, 2006, 06:32:12 AM
Post by: Requiem on March 04, 2006, 11:49:38 AM
Ian, I honestly believe you FEAR change. Metriod will lose the lock-on, so you are going to have to deal with it. And you know what? You just might like it
.As for my list being really optimistic, maybe it is. However, like I said before - Zelda TP, Metriod, SSMO, and the Camelot RPG will be launch titles (or at least relatively close to launch). There is no doubt about that. To me thats already an incredible launch, and the best yet. But I don't doubt that either WarioWare or Mario Paint REV are in the works for launch. Or maybe Nintendogs? Add another Nintendo-published game to the list.
Mario, the new IP, and the resurrection of an old IP probably won't hit till sometime in 2007. However, I do believe WaveRace or maybe even PilotWings will come out before the end of 2006. Honestly, what has that team had to work on after their 1080 release? Are they the same company that is working on Pennent Chase?
Well sh#t, my point is...add another Nintendo-published game to the list.
So that's 6 so far.
There's been somewhat of an oproar in support for Revolution. The one's that are likely to hit launch are
Ubisoft's FPS
Capcom's title (not the kojima produced one, which IS a seperate title)
EA everything (Madden, Fifa, Fight Night which could be a killer app)
New Sonic
Square's offering (most likely VERY far along; they were the first to comment on the REV: remember this quote "not just a console, not just a portable, but a birth of a new platform)
Midway's title
TRUAMA CENTER (could be a real cult classic, even more so then it already is)
THQ's title
That's about 16 (some may not make it). That's pretty damn good, especially cause I'll probably pick up at least 5 of those titles, which is unheard of....
Then factor in all those games that are waiting to suprise us at E3 and all third-party pullshit and you have a pretty decent sized launch.
And one more thing, though I understand the complaint that the Virtual Console can't be considered as a launch title or a substition for games, I really don't care. The fact is, I have been waiting to play SO MANY titles that I at one point wanted or simply lost. That is what makes this launch even more special for me...
If you guys can't see this as the best launch ever, honestly....get help...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 04, 2006, 01:16:40 PM
NST handles Wave Race and 1080, and GameCube demo discs, and I don't know how their resources are split considering they're finishing Metroid Prime: Hunters.
Pennant Chase is developed by Company Not Appearing In This Thread. Don't remember who.
Post by: Magik on March 04, 2006, 07:03:33 PM
Post by: Urkel on March 04, 2006, 07:33:23 PM
Post by: Magik on March 05, 2006, 04:04:43 AM
If Nintendo put more effort into their marketing of Metroid Prime things would have been different. If you think Metroid Prime underperformed that badly, than Echoes was attrocious compared to the original Prime.
Post by: stevey on March 05, 2006, 07:37:24 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on March 05, 2006, 09:07:48 AM
They'd do better to use another name for the game, FFCC is a tainted name that has negative associations because the game quite frankly sucked.
Post by: Fro on March 05, 2006, 10:47:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Magik
It can be the greatest launch ever, but if there's nothing worth while coming out after or if there's droughts that we experienced with the GC, it's meaningless.
That's when you rush out sparkling innovationy, low-priced titles for the post-launch lull... i.e., the cooking game.
Not to mention there's enough virtual console titles to keep everyone busy forever.
Post by: Magik on March 05, 2006, 02:28:23 PM
The virtual console is not going to be enough for a lot of people. I'm one of them.
I want new games that revolve around the controller, not old traditional games that I've played before.
Post by: Requiem on March 05, 2006, 02:54:39 PM
The games I mentioned are suppose to release in 2006, but there are more that won't make it till early 2007.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 05, 2006, 02:59:27 PM
There’s gonna be plenty of games right off they bat you shouldn’t have to worry about the first two to three months after, now if they take longer than three months to get more games after launch then there will be cause for concern but until then nobody even knows what will be ready for launch and what wont. BUT there will surely be something to satisfy our needs Im sure and still the VC is gonna hold allot of people over for along ass time. Remember its not JUST nes/snes games they will have N64 also, plus GC will keep getting new games for a while so you should have some new GC games to play on your rev for a while also.
I like how you say the virtual console wont hold you over cuz you 'need' new games to experience the revmote right away, how ignorant is that statement you putting faith in something you haven’t even tried, what if it sucks and you ant stand the remote controls and you don’t like the new games, then what do you do?
Thats when you buy the games that don’t use the revmote or pick up a shell and play proven way.
Which gets me back onto the "more of the same" BS some people keep spouting. If Nintendo hadn’t told you the controls we have now aren’t good enough you wouldn’t even be thinking about it like that, for one thing the GC controller (especially wave bird) is one of the best controllers ever made and is more than sufficient for just about every genre out there. YES Its fine to try new things but you know tares a reason why people keep playing the games they are familiar with and thats because once you discover you like something, you never stop liking it.
Seriously I cant stand how people will sit here and say the remotes the greatest thing ever and that every game we have now SUCKS because they don’t use the remote or if a game isn’t a brand new experience you ever played before it sucks, damn that gets annoying. Is Mega Man X any more or less fun than Mega man 1-7? NO.
Is Mario 64 so much better than SMB1-3 that you cant enjoy them anymore, again NO. If a game is fun it doesn’t matter if it plays like game you already played or not if its fun its gonna be fun no matter what.
Fighting game fans and FPS fans don’t complain every game is too similar and cuz one lays like another they all suck, so why should it be with Nintendo fans? I mean take Soul Caliber and Tekken, and tell me there’s a difference. there’s not, and I don’t mean story and #*@# so don’t rebuttal with BS cuz you know what I am talking about if you played either game.
I hate it when people who are blind Nintendo fan boys will sit here and praise a controller they NEVER PLAYED for themselves and because of it bash on the same very kids of game play they would have praised a year ago.
Seriously wait and see what comes out at launch before you say its nto enough or it doesnt satisfy you.
Post by: Requiem on March 05, 2006, 03:51:53 PM
Honestly RAT, calm down. You maybe right about some Nintendo Fans, but I have yet to see someone like that on these forum (except maybe GameBasher).
We all praise the controller, not because of what it is, but instead for what it can do for the videogame world. We praise the idea of what it means theoritically. It has the ability to improve every genre while making new ones in the process.
That's why we like it, and I have yet to see any bashing because of it.
Post by: Magik on March 05, 2006, 04:29:52 PM
I have absolutely no problem playing games the way they are right now. My problem is people telling me that I should rely on the virtual console for system that claims their controller is the new way of gaming. It annoys me how everybody keeps saying how revolutionary the controller is and than all of a sudden tell me to play some old NES/SNES/N64 games while I wait for new games.
Nintendo keeps preaching and preaching that the controller is going to change things for the better, so I'm going to take them up on that offer cause this is Nintendo's last chance to keep me as a consumer and fan after all the bullshit they did with the GC.
Post by: MaryJane on March 05, 2006, 04:46:02 PM
Post by: IceCold on March 05, 2006, 05:32:09 PM
And this is also why Nintendo isn't just abandoning traditional games. They'll still make many of these games, along with new types. Like the DS; it will be a balance.
Post by: RiskyChris on March 05, 2006, 06:00:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
And this is also why Nintendo isn't just abandoning traditional games. They'll still make many of these games, along with new types. Like the DS; it will be a balance.
Yes, mario kart revolution's motion sensitivity will only change the minimap view. =D
Post by: animecyberrat on March 05, 2006, 06:27:54 PM
Post by: RiskyChris on March 05, 2006, 07:05:01 PM
I stopped reading after the first line.
Post by: IceCold on March 05, 2006, 07:15:35 PM
Post by: animecyberrat on March 05, 2006, 07:24:37 PM
Post by: animecyberrat on March 05, 2006, 07:31:18 PM
Post by: RiskyChris on March 05, 2006, 07:36:51 PM
Post by: animecyberrat on March 05, 2006, 07:49:45 PM
Anyways i didnt mean to snap back at you I was actualy trying to see your pov and agreeing that it wasa mess so dcided to retype it as as hroter post, but damn that didnt work either.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 05, 2006, 07:55:53 PM
2. If a developer didn't think the controller was good he wouldn't make a game for the platform. That's why you see the devs who make games for it praise it, because they wouldn't be making games for it if they didn't deem it praiseworthy. After all, the Revolution isn't expected to sell as well as the other consoles and you have to compete with Nintendo's games AND virtual console for customer money when making games for it.
3. Developers say things as they are, they have no training in PR and don't have to promote the game they are working on. While they'll rarely say outright "this game sucks" because their employer wouldn't like it they won't heap praise upon a piece of crap. Especially since they aren't getting paid for praising things.
Post by: RiskyChris on March 05, 2006, 07:56:52 PM
*tips hat*
Post by: pudu on March 05, 2006, 09:58:55 PM
I read all 4 pages of this thread and saw a lot of great points. I agree that Nintendo might be shooting themselves in the foot by releasing sequals like SSB, Mario, Zelda, etc. at launch due to their unfortunate bad image at the moment...but then again if they are excellent games I doubt this will matter as much as one might think. In my eyes SSB and Zelda series are still VERY fresh because each new game is made in a new way with enough improvement to justify them. Mario on the other hand, I think that up until Mario Sunshine it had stayed pretty fresh and new but Sunshine wasn't enough for me to think of it as the next "leap". I really enjoyed the game but it was no better then Mario 64. Plus...all of the Mario games (party 1-who knows, tennis, soccer, golf) on both their consoles and handhelds have sort of made it hard for them to maintane the hype of the next "mario" game. I don't care that mario is featured in all those games because for the most part they are of good quality, but the general consumer is seeing this and probably starting to think that's all Nintendo is, tired mario "rehashes".
Hard core gamers, apart from pre-existing Nintendo fans, will need something more to convince them. Offering sequals to their old IPs could work if they turn out to just be phenominal but the name branding alone will most likely turn off more than a few of these gamers. I'm hoping that games like Ubisoft's FPS will strike interest in these more hard core gamersand convince them that there is something to be missed if they don't get a Rev.
Also, as already stated by a few, it is extremely important for Nintendo to make a strong stand this year. They can't afford anything less then a GOOD launch because of all the Devs playing the wait-and-see game. If these devs don't see a strong enough reason to support the Rev then it is destined for a lackluster amount of games. I think the key is one or two must have blockbusters at/around launch that offer experiences not found ANYWHERE else, along with a very reasonable price point to get this thing kicked off. Seeing as to how the DS is doing in Japan I can already say that I am 100% positive that the Rev will sell pretty good in Japan...it's America and Europe where they will have problems.
Post by: wandering on March 05, 2006, 10:09:10 PM
Quote
Mario on the other hand, I think that up until Mario Sunshine it had stayed pretty fresh and new but Sunshine wasn't enough for me to think of it as the next "leap". I really enjoyed the game but it was no better then Mario 64. Plus...all of the Mario games (party 1-who knows, tennis, soccer, golf) on both their consoles and handhelds have sort of made it hard for them to maintane the hype of the next "mario" game. I don't care that mario is featured in all those games because for the most part they are of good quality, but the general consumer is seeing this and probably starting to think that's all Nintendo is, tired mario "rehashes".
This used to bother me...the degradation of the mario franchise by putting him in everything, I mean. But then it hit me: I don't think Miyamoto cares about mario anymore. And if that's the case, there's really no reason to not milk the plumber for all he's worth.
Post by: IceCold on March 05, 2006, 10:23:24 PM
QuoteOh I know you didn't just go there..
But then it hit me: I don't think Miyamoto cares about mario anymore.
Post by: wandering on March 05, 2006, 11:18:20 PM
There hasn't been a Miyamoto-developed mario game since Mario 64. Gamecube launched with Miyamoto's pikmin and, for the first time ever, no Miyamoto-developed mario game...or any mario game at all. The Revolution will launch with another new Miyamoto IP, and iirc, Satoru has said that Miyamoto has said mario probably wouldn't be there for launch. It seems like he's moved on, as it were.
Though I guess, now you mention it, there's still Mario 128.....
Post by: Kairon on March 05, 2006, 11:44:44 PM
It's weird, but I'm technically more of a Miyamoto fanboy than a Nintendo fanboy. And as a Miyamoto Fanboy, I haven't tasted real magic since Pikmin (the first one), or for just a few fleeting seconds in WW when I truly started to play witht he combat system.
It sucks to be a Miyamoto fanboy because then you can't enjoy Majora's Mask because it just ISN'T the same! Aonouma directed that, not Miyamoto!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: KDR_11k on March 05, 2006, 11:49:40 PM
He created those franchises to fit a game idea and the technological limitations of the time, not to be perpetually reusable settings. That's why all Nintendo games seem to have terribly inconsistent timelines, they were never designed for accomodating sequels.
Post by: MaryJane on March 06, 2006, 05:32:12 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on March 06, 2006, 05:55:18 AM
More than three first party titles is impossible. Even if they delivered that many it'd mean they would suffer a drought very soon. There's a limit to the number of titles you can develop simultaneously, especially when you have two handheld platforms to support as well.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 06, 2006, 06:11:57 AM
I am not the kind of person to try new games that I am unfamiliar with unless it is something I have already thought about before or if it resembles something I either already like or have already thouight of. I say this because I have been playing games since theAtari days and I have found that I like a certain style of game and tehres certain kinds of games I dont like. I personaly prefer fat paced games that dont take too long to get into thatI can pick up playfor a little bit and then quit when i want witout having to worry abotu finding a save point or rushing through some important story scenes/text.
A Cooking game does not interest me, but I work in restaurants my wholelife and have been a cook and i dont want a game doing somethign I do in real life. Even racing games arent as fun anymore, since I was a pizza driver cuz I got pretty good at driving my car fast and a video game cant simulate that real fast pace anymore.
And that sorta sucsk cuz I have always beena big fan of racing games.
I am open for trying new things, especialy since the familair stuff isnt gonna be familiar anymore (alot of why I didnt like most GC games) so I dont knwo maybe I am just not into trying new things. I used to be, I was so excited for Sega CD just cuz it was gonna have FMV and I was excited for original playstation and Saturn cuz they were gonna have 3d games, and i was excited for N64 because of Mario 64, I wasnt so excited for GC cuz it was just a repeat of 64 for the most part. I try and get excited for the rev but what gets me the most excited is the Virtual COnsole and the SuperSmash Bros onine, I am dieing to play some of you guys at that and find out once and for all how much I suck.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 06, 2006, 06:14:57 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on March 06, 2006, 08:06:00 AM
"raise your hand if when you first started playing video games like mario, and you wanted to make him jump really far you would move the controller to, subconscienciously hoping it would help him jump further."
I did but I wasn't trying to move Mario by moving the controller. It's like in bowling where you throw the ball and it looks like it's going for a strike but it's just a little bit off so you make gestures to make it move. It's just something you do because you're in the moment. Imagine actually playing Super Mario Bros by moving the controller like that. It would be incredibly imprecise. Just because we do that doesn't mean that's the ideal way to control the game.
"Ian, I honestly believe you FEAR change."
I only fear change if I'm not confident that change will be for the good. I'm not confident enough in Nintendo right now to look forward to this change. It doesn't help that I'm quite unimpressed with the DS touchscreen and that's what people often compare the Rev to. "Look at how well the touchscreen is working out" is not going to convince someone who isn't impressed by the touchscreen to be optimistic about the Rev. If anything it might make them feel less optimistic. I'm fine with change if I agree with the reason for the change. Nintendo tells me that people are getting bored with gaming as is or that they need to reinvent the controller to innovate. I don't agree with any of that so I don't agree with the reason for the change and thus I'm not very enthusiastic about it. What's there isn't broken and what's being brought in hasn't been proven to be better. That sounds too much like change for the sake of change.
Regarding the topic of having sequels and franchise games selling the Rev concept I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic that came out when the Cube was first revealed. The punchline was "1986 called, they want their games back". Penny Arcade knows their sh!t. They play games on every system imaginable. They like Nintendo and play Nintendo games. So for them to have had that attitude is significant. If hardcore gamers don't recognize that Nintendo sequels aren't just the same stuff over again how can anyone else? Now the Penny Arcade guys love good games so they don't care if Nintendo is innovative or not provided the games are fun. But someone who has decided they don't like Mario anymore is never going to give Nintendo a chance if all they got is Mario.
Post by: RiskyChris on March 06, 2006, 08:14:08 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on March 06, 2006, 08:45:07 AM
Metroid Prime Hunters demo
Advance Wars
Castlevania
Mario Kart
Warioware
Polarium
Kirby Canvas Curse
Feel the Magic demo that was online and thus might not be accurate enough to make an opinion on.
I doubt the question was "unprovoking" as someone is sure to jump on me for not having tried this game or that game.
Post by: MaryJane on March 06, 2006, 08:46:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
It would be incredibly imprecise. Just because we do that doesn't mean that's the ideal way to control the game.
Nintendo tells me that people are getting bored with gaming as is or that they need to reinvent the controller to innovate. I don't agree with any of that so I don't agree with the reason for the change and thus I'm not very enthusiastic about it. What's there isn't broken and what's being brought in hasn't been proven to be better. That sounds too much like change for the sake of change.
at first the rev controller is going to take some getting used to and it will be imprecise, but the human mind has this weird thing called adaptation, and it also has the ability to learn go figure.
i don't know about the rest of you, but for me every controlller takes getting used to. when i play with an xbox, i feel like someone just threw me a brick with indents and said play. i have to get used to just playing with controllers from different systems, even nintendo systems. the touchscreen took getting used to, everything takes getting used to. even the individual battle systems in games. should everything remain stagnant to satisfy those who fear change? you know racist, sexicist, and masoganists, also fear change. stagnation prevents progress, change encourages it.
Nintendo isn't the one saying people are getting bored with video games. the declining sales (not only for nintendo) are saying that people are getting bored with video games. and why do you suppose that is? no innovation. more of the same gets tired quick.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 06, 2006, 09:17:31 AM
I thought gaming sales went up last year. I don't associate low sales with people being bored with games as they are but just bored with EA releasing the same junk again and again and crappy licenced games and the billion different World War II games there are. But that doesn't mean people are bored with gaming period, just bored with a glut of similar product. Now you can say that means we need to innovate. Yes we do but that doesn't mean we need to complete rehaul the controller. Nintendo innovated last gen with games like Metroid Prime and Pikmin and they were fantastic. But they also stagnated because they released so many Mario spinoffs and had third parties working on franchise games and shoehorned Star Fox into a crap title. It's all in the content, not the interface of the console itself. If Nintendo has a problem with innovation it's because of their stupid "who are you?" nonsense where they decided that Nintendo stood for milking franchises instead of releasing essential games that push the industry forward. I don't see that changing for the Rev so I see the remote more as a quick fix to give a new spin on the same franchises. The idea of innovating is always solid but I don't have faith in the execution and I don't think people are bored with the way we play games like Nintendo seems to think. There's a big difference between "we need to make more innovative games" and "we have to complete redesign gaming altogether".
Plus Nintendo is also saying that people are intimidated by the controller which I don't agree with. I also don't like their blue ocean strategy as I think people who don't game don't game because they're not interested in the fundamental concept of gaming, not because there's some easily removable barrier that keeps them out.
Post by: Kairon on March 06, 2006, 09:18:06 AM
Really, Nintendo IS a corporation with a long history of profitability. It's ALL about the money isn't it? That's really the only reason for anything.
But about the Penny-Arcade comment, it's clearly about Nintendo's lack of relevance to modern pop culture. *shrug* Reggie's asked the same question too: How do you sell Mario to the 14-year old raised on GTA 3? It isn't an observation about Nintendo's worth or ability, it's an evaluation of the style of Nintendo's internal studio. And it reinforces my belief that Nintendo's biggest strength is also their biggest weakness: Miyamoto.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on March 06, 2006, 09:29:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Ian, what games have you played on the DS?"
Metroid Prime Hunters demo
Advance Wars
Castlevania
Mario Kart
Warioware
Polarium
Kirby Canvas Curse
Feel the Magic demo that was online and thus might not be accurate enough to make an opinion on.
I doubt the question was "unprovoking" as someone is sure to jump on me for not having tried this game or that game.
Since this topic started with a credentialed list of games, I'll start with mine.
I've played:
Feel the magic
Metroid Hunters Demo
Nintendogs: Chihuahua
Age of Empires
Pac Pix
Sprung
Ping Pals
Yoshi's Touch N' Go
Kirby's Canvas Curse
Mario & Luigi Partner's In Time
Lost in Blue
Mario Kart
Animal Crossing
Trauma Center
Electroplankton
Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney
So if you guys won't believe Ian, maybe you'll believe me. The touch screen hasn't truly proved essential out of the gate.
I only consider ONE of these games to be a brilliant use of the touchscreen that under no circumstances could ever exist on another system.
That game is Pac Pix, and I love it... Well, I'd personally also want to add Metroid Hunters to the list but it isn't out yet really. The touch screen really makes the FPS experience uber fluid. The others are good, but they don't really use the touch screen to mind-freaking effect.
Thank goodness the DS has other capabilities in addition to that, the sparkling innovationy microphone, sparkling innovationy GBA cart add-ons, and the potentially awesome two screens.
Seriously, I'm still waiting for a two-screen proof of concept game that tells two different stories at the same time using both screens, or has gameplay where it is absolutely important that you see the world in both first person view on the touchscreen and third person three-quarters view on the top screen. Two screens, two viewpoints, awesome gameplay I say.
Hmm....so I agree with Ian and disagree with him. Ian is compeltely justified in my view by saying that the touchscreen is unproven. I agree with him there. I just like to imagine games that don't exist, but would wholly prove the concept in my eyes.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ian Sane on March 06, 2006, 09:29:33 AM
I agree with that to an extent. Miyamoto is a brilliant developer and makes some of the greatest games ever. But Nintendo had a better lineup of games when they also had Gunpei Yokoi. I think the problem isn't Miyamoto himself but rather how he is used. As a game designer he is a very valuable asset. But he hasn't been a designer for a while. Now he's more of a consultant who has his finger in everyone's pie. So the Nintendo lineup is more homogenous because Miyamoto's touch is in almost everything. But since he'ss spread out the overall lineup is weaker because there aren't many "pure" Miyamoto titles anymore. If Miyamoto just concentrated on his own games things would probably be better. EAD games would be better and non-EAD games would feel more unique.
It would be nice if Nintendo put a restriction on their own use of franchises as well. On the NES they had a limit of how many games a third party could release per year to improve quality. They would benefit from enforcing a similar restriction on themselves. How about a franchise can only be used once per year so that every time they make a Mario game they have to make it count?
Post by: Kairon on March 06, 2006, 09:58:44 AM
Mario Party was an amazing phenomenon, and despite it's plethora of rapid money-making sequels still garners huge sales, quality gaming, and my love. You'd have to be crazy to stop making Mario Parties!
And Mario Paint, GAWD! That game owns an entire segment of my gaming life. As a kid I made the introductions to my family's VHS home videos of vacations using Mario paint's music, art and animation tools.
So there are two Mario spin-offs I'd LOVE to see on the Rev as soon as possible.
On the other hand... hmm.. what would you say about Nintendo stopping shopping Mario out to third parties? I mean, at least be more judicious. Perhaps with more third party support for the Rev than the GC Nintendo won't feel as pressured to flaunt their franchises, and reserve the out-branding to only very key partners. For example, Nintendo can't say no to Squaresoft, they're too important. Let Squaresoft use Mario. And let Namco use Link. BUT FOR GOD SAKES NO MORE STARFOX GAMES PLEASE! THIRD PARTIES JUST RUIN THEM!
But the Rev really shouldn't need a "Mario Superstar Baseball" or "Mario Super Strikers." If there's not enough third party support and not enough innovatin or ideas for the Rev that Nintendo needs to start offering its franchises to smaller, less significant developers, then Nintendo has bigger problems than whoring out its franchises.
~Carmine M. Red
Post by: BigJim on March 06, 2006, 10:05:42 AM
The answer to Reggie's question is easy. Make a new game that GTA players would enjoy. It's not ALL about sex and violence for the sake of sex and violence. If it were all about just capping sluts and grannies, it would have gotten boring in 5 minutes. Under the hood is some pretty solid gameplay mechanics that kept them coming back. It's not rocket science. They just need to pop their bubble and wake up. Relying on 3rd parties to do it isn't the answer either. The console maker sets the pace, especially in Nintendo's case.
But this is all rehashed opinion.
Post by: Kairon on March 06, 2006, 10:11:21 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ceric on March 06, 2006, 10:31:41 AM
Post by: Kairon on March 06, 2006, 10:46:00 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 06, 2006, 11:12:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I thought gaming sales went up last year.
Actually, they were down across the board for all systems...except for the DS which basically single-handedly made up for the sh!ttacular sales of the other systems.
The DS already has 5-6 million-selling titles under it's belt and it's barely a year old.
Frankly, if I was a developer and I saw that the only system making strong numbers out there was a weird little thing with two screens and a pen, I'd give some more credence to the buzz around innovation.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 06, 2006, 11:47:10 AM
I think the key is to make something that is suitable for all ages but looks different than Nintendo's usual titles. One thing that has always set Metroid apart is that it looks very un-Nintendo like. Most of Nintendo's franchises look like they could stand next to Mario and not look that out of place. Even something like Zelda could probably be thrown into Mario's world with just a few cosmetic changes. But Samus would always look wrong next to Mario. It would just never fit.
So Nintendo should make some games that still have universal appeal but don't look like their other titles. Goldeneye had huge universal appeal but looks nothing like a typical Nintendo game. Games like R-Type or Daytona USA are perfectly kid-friendly but have a style complete unlike Nintendo, yet with high standard of quality. I'm just tossing out good games that don't feel or look like Nintendo games that are kid-friendly.
I think Nintendo thinks that to be kid-friendly they have to make things cutesy but sometimes just making something neutral works too. I'd say a kid-friendly game would be any game without blood or graphic violence, swearing, blatant sexuality, or any glorifying of illegal activity. And even in there I'd say some leeway is okay. There's nothing wrong with having someone get shot and killed provided that character is clearly "evil" and it's done without gore. Anything subject material that was considered okay on the NES that didn't have parents groups freaking out is kid-friendly.
They don't even have to make boring titles that take place in reality. Why not use cowboys or pirates as a theme? A fantasy element can always remain without turning your game into magic rainbow land.
One idea I've had for years is a game where you're a police officer and you chase criminals through a city. With today's technology such a game could be done with a full sized city. This idea would appeal to all ages. You play a policeman so it's an honorable position. You're undoubtably a "good guy". There would be no need for violence to make the game work, just car wrecks. There would be no need for foul language or any sexual content whatsoever. So the game would be suitable for kids while at the same time the style of game would appeal to adults and teens. Why can't Nintendo make more games like that? Quality gameplay with no cutesy stuff and with no content unsuitable for kids.
Post by: Jensen on March 06, 2006, 12:08:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Nintendo innovated last gen with games like Metroid Prime and Pikmin and they were fantastic.
Metroid Prime and Pikmin wouldn't work as N64 games. The increased power of the gamecube was necessary for those games. But we are coming to a point in which a newer CPU won't help much. Why design a new system if it isn't going to open up new gameplay possibilities? I guess physics could use a faster CPU... I really like all the physics in Half-Life 2 , but even that showed up on the original Xbox. But I'd also like to try HL2 with a Revolution controller so I can throw grenades and manipulate objects that I pick up.
Post by: Kairon on March 06, 2006, 01:10:07 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: pudu on March 06, 2006, 01:22:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
What was that game called again Ian? Dead to Rights? No..ummm... they made one about LA and made the last one about NYC.... can't for the life of me remember that game.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
True Crime: Streets of L.A.
True Crime: New York City
Post by: Ian Sane on March 06, 2006, 01:52:13 PM
The True Crime games (assuming that's what you're thinking of) are like GTA rip-offs though. I'm thinking more like Crazy Taxi with police.
"But we are coming to a point in which a newer CPU won't help much. Why design a new system if it isn't going to open up new gameplay possibilities?"
I think that's a cop out. Nintendo could have innovated more on the Cube but instead chose to make every possible Mario Sports game imaginable. Plus I don't really see the remote as opening up new possibilities or at least not providing that without shutting other ideas out. The overhaul nature of the design troubles me the most. I would have no problem if they just had a "normal" controller with motion control inside. One thing that does provide new possibilities, and we have proof that it does, is online gaming which Nintendo neglected last gen. That right there alone gives them some space to work with. And with hardware you can always do more: better AI, better physics, more characters on the screen at once. These things can spark new ideas.
Why release new hardware? The real reason is because the competition does it and you'll look like a tool if you don't. It doesn't help that the Cube is totally dead. A new console is needed just for Nintendo to stay alive. So even if their next console was just better hardware it give them a fresh slate with consumers. No one would notice if all their innovative Rev games were doable on the Cube.
Post by: Kairon on March 06, 2006, 02:07:43 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on March 06, 2006, 02:10:04 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: pudu on March 06, 2006, 02:36:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
That's your opinion on whether Nintendo could've innovated with the GC Ian. After Sunshine and WindWaker, I think Nintendo convinced at least themselves that they were having a real tough time of it.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
lol I thin this is very true. I think that they are getting as tired of the same old as we are. If it ain't broke don't fix it can only last for so long before an overhaul has to happen and I'm glad they realised this. Will be funny when the other companies follow suite and then later everyone forgets who started this "revolution" in the first place and Nintendo is more then likely back to being the underdog again. Oh well I will still be there awaiting their next move
Post by: Strell on March 06, 2006, 03:16:31 PM
When Nintendo doesn't innovate, people bitch.
I mean, there is NO right way for Nintendo. They set all the damn trends - with the exception of mature games - and everyone comes back and throws it in their face that they screw up.
Sometimes I wish Nintendo wasn't run by people like Miyamoto and Iwata. They need some real a**holes working for them - the kind that go into the public eye and stupidly bash everything to hell. You know, like Mark Rein, Kutaragi, Iga, the guy from Shiny, etc etc. Just a lot of money grubbing arrogant pricks to come out and call gamers morons for liking and/or disliking certain things.
Or maybe they need to promise the entire damn world in all of their games, then absolutely fail to deliver even on the slightest.
I mean, SOMETHING, SOMETHING to make me feel like the guys at Nintendo are still human, you know? They need to sh*t all over us back and forth and tell us we will take our medicine and f***ing like it.
Then at least I'd feel a legitimate reason to be pissed at them. If Miyamoto came out like all the f***sticks from Tecmo/Konami and ruthlessly tore apart other games and designers, I'd feel okay about calling them un-innovating jerk capitalistic dog pissants.
Instead we have these hugely humble men working tirelessly for our enjoyment, and arguably the biggest and brightest mind in the entire industry makes a decent wage, instead of the billions he's entitled do. And they continually put out games knowing that they built the industry into what it is and will always set the trends.
I suggest, if you hate Nintendo's practices so much, that you ignore them altogether. Quit voting for them with your cash, only to be endlessly disappointed because you are holding them on a pedestal FAR higher than ANY of the other companies, the grand majority of which don't even come CLOSE to comparing. Don't buy a Rev, don't buy a DS, don't play Mario or Zelda. Just completely deny yourself anything Nintendo makes.
THEN come back and bitch, because by then you might have earned the right to.
Do I think people can complain? Of course, but I am SICK AND TIRED of Nintendo getting NOTHING but flack from so many ends of the spectrum and from every last person related to this industry.
If they were truly spiteful and asinine, they'd take the cash and RUN, leaving a big FU to everyone. While I'd be pissed, I can't say I'd blame them in the event it happened. If I were Miyamoto I'd probably want to just go garden and tell everyone to suck my balls. It just sounds so thankless, the fans. It's like you pay money against your will and subsequently believe Nintendo is stealing your wallet for their own devious ends.
I mean, if the reaction to Nintendo is the way it is, how can anyone deal with other companies? I just don't get it. Is there just a collective undercurrent that we cut everyone that much slack?
Standards, man. What a bitch.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 06, 2006, 05:31:32 PM
Oh and I should mention that as far as GC goes I did refuse to buy most of thier crap, yes I ssaid it, Nintendo made a lot of crap this gen. I have bought more 3rd party games than Nintendo games and I usualy have mostly Nintendo made games and a few 3rd party games. With Nes, Snes and N64 you basicaly had all the nintendo games and you still had a ll the great 3rd party games so you had a reason to makeit your only system or you number one choice. but with GC you had to weed threough a lot of crap 1sta dn 3rd party, most Nintendo games this gen werent even made by Nintendo and most of those sucked or at elast werent up to snuff.
I have been starving this gen for good games on my GC and HAD to go out and get an Xbox to fill in the gaps and that wasnt at all an easy thing for me to do and I still dont get enough. It pisses me off to no end that tehres NOT ONE good traditional 2-d fighting game on the Game Cube, and it pisses me off that we get 2 Mks (one gets delayed AND toned down) and 3 DBZ game swhere only 1 was even worth buying and thast about it, oh and Soul Caliber Ii which was good but not good enough. as Fighitng game fanatic I was SO PISSED that there is such slim picking on the GC. And now Nintendo is making the rev so that Fighitng games are gonna have a hard as hell time getting made so what do i do?
Game Cube had a lot fo great games dont get me wrong but all the games I play arent even made by Nintendo except MP and Star Fox ADventures which a lto fo peopel ahte and I dotn get it. I have Smash BRos but dont play it often cuz I have noone to play with so rev will solve thatc uz its gonna be online.
Post by: IceCold on March 06, 2006, 05:37:58 PM
QuoteAnd you like SEGA. And you don't like F-Zero GX. Huh.
I personaly prefer fat paced games that dont take too long to get into thatI can pick up playfor a little bit and then quit when i want witout having to worry abotu finding a save point or rushing through some important story scenes/text.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 06, 2006, 06:00:48 PM
Post by: blackfootsteps on March 06, 2006, 09:00:54 PM
Post by: wandering on March 06, 2006, 09:10:23 PM
Quote
Sometimes I wish Nintendo wasn't run by people like Miyamoto and Iwata. They need some real a**holes working for them - the kind that go into the public eye and stupidly bash everything to hell. You know, like Mark Rein, Kutaragi, Iga, the guy from Shiny, etc etc. Just a lot of money grubbing arrogant pricks to come out and call gamers morons for liking and/or disliking certain things.
You mean, like Reggie?
*ducks*
Quote
Or maybe they need to promise the entire damn world in all of their games, then absolutely fail to deliver even on the slightest.
You mean like Nintendo did with Mario Sunshine? And connectivity?
*ducks*
Post by: Strell on March 07, 2006, 05:53:35 AM
I'm surprised you didn't say Yamauchi, because yea, he tended to rub everyone the wrong way (though he is a brilliant businessman AND never actually attacked other companies, he just said he didn't like RPGs).
I've already said this about Sunshine - it can't live up to Mario 64, period. Nothing ever will. Mario 128 won't, Mario 256 won't, etc etc. Nothing will ever match M64. SMS was not perfect but it is still eons ahead of other platformers, and gets an unfair amount of sh*t simply for the reason that it wasn't M64 2.
As for connectivity, I suggest everyone honestly play FF:CC, Zelda 4 Swords, and Pacman Vs. before making a criticism. Connectivity was a bad counter to online play, but by no means is it a bad idea. Why do I know this? Because Microsoft and Sony are touting their connectivity features now and calling them ice cream, when they are flawed worse than the GBA/GC. I suspect that the DS connectivity will be better handled simply because it will all be wireless, meaning no one is going to buy cables, further eliminating another accessory AND giving companies more incentive to get in on it.
I see your point, I just think that it falls too close to what I was originally ranting against.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 07, 2006, 06:06:40 AM
It did not have any of that Magic Kingdom feel that teh rpevious Mario games had, what made mario so phukking exciting int he past was the magical kingdom it took p0lace in and all the fantastic imagination sparkiong stuff you got to feast your eyes on.
It was a fantastic game with fantastic fantasy graphics aina d fantastic fantasyw orld that offered worlds of possibiliteis and allowed yor imagination to soar. Mario Sunshine was just Mario 64 rip off and didnt have ANY of the Magic that teh otehr games had, it dumbed the series down a lot.
It also took away alot of what made the Mushroom Kingdom so maghical in the first place, most prominantly the Magic Mushrooms! Mario 64 at least had mushrooms in it and they still came out of bricks and invisible sweet spots you randomly encountered, there were still Tall Mushrom Trees, it had the SMiley Face clouds, it had all the famaliar enemies, Goombas, Pirahana plants, Koopas, Bob Ombs, Bullet Bills, Cheep Cheeps, etc etc and intriduced NEW enemies (just like every Mario game previous has done)
MArio Sunshine ont he other had threw EVERYTHING out the window and started over witha bunch of paint globs you had to wash away and removed the stomping on enemies and tossing aroudn Koppa Shells and squishing Goombas etc.
Now I do not hate the game nor do I tink it was bad BUT I do feel a need to remimnd peopel from time to time WHAT was disapointing about it because so many people forgot what Mario games were really like.
I anjoyed mario Sunshine for a bit, it was a fun game to play but the story was crap, the worst kind of crap, worse than Save the Princess crap because at least then it was a reald dire situation Peach wa in trouble and Bowser could kill her if he chose to, not Clean up the town or spend you vacation in jail, as soon as the paint mario poped up and started messing things up the towns peopel should have cleared marios name and he would no longer be under that crap, but no instead they continued to treat you liek a criminal and the story never got better.
Mario Sunshine could have easily lived up to Mario 64 if they hadnt strayed from what makes mario games fun in the first place.
Post by: Ceric on March 07, 2006, 06:55:15 AM
A freind made this but think Reggie instead.
Edit: Got it to be a Hyperlink
Post by: Ian Sane on March 07, 2006, 07:43:24 AM
I agree with that though I don't think Nintendo's response is the right one. They clearly tried to be innovative with those games but unfortunately didn't really deliver. I very clearly noticed they went into sequel-happy franchise mode after those games came out. In the end though I prefer the early Cube games to the later ones. I think the problem is that they tried too hard to be innovative. I think things would have come more naturally if they just set out to make a great game and let new ideas come to them as they worked. Super Mario World and Link's Awakening are brilliant games but they're not that much different then their predecessor. But that was okay because they were incredibly tight well designed games and they did have quite a few new ideas, just not big "change the industry" ones. If Nintendo can't think of something innovative there's nothing wrong with just trying to make the best game you can provided you don't crank a new sequel out each year. Tweaks and new ideas will come about just as result of that.
With the Cube it's like they gave up. "Oh I guess we're out of ideas. Better milk Mario for all he's worth to try to salvage something." Maybe they would have continued to innovate if they actually MADE NEW GAMES. Aside from Geist and Battalion Wars (which was originally going to be a milking of the Advance Wars series) they didn't even try to make new stuff. They got too focused on franchises and the quality dropped like a rock.
I think the Rev remote has the same problem that Super Mario Sunshine has. It's too deliberate. It's like they sat down and said "we're going to make something innovative" instead of "we're going to make something good." I don't like Nintendo when they try too hard. Their best efforts seem effortless like the ideas just came to them as they made the game. I think the best Cube game is Pikmin 2. It's a sequel and it's not nearly as innovative as the first game but it's a better game and it has tons of new ideas. The new ideas don't seem to come from a "let's be innovative" mindset. They seem like a response to the original game and some of the new ideas seem very natural. Let's add new Pikmin, remove the time limit, and expand the areas you can access and the ideas developed from there. Sometimes something as simple as adding a few new features can greatly affect a game and make a sequel feel very new. Something as simple as Racoon Mario greatly seperated Super Mario Bros 3 from the original game.
And if Nintendo feels they're running out of ideas why don't they try out some genres they've never worked in before? What if Miyamoto made a first person shooter? What sort of neat ideas would he incorporate working in a genre he had never worked in before? What if he tackled a sports genre?
When Nintendo tries too hard to be innovative you get stuff like Pac-Man Vs where they come up with a neat idea but it isn't necessarily deep enough to make a full game. I don't think when they made Pikmin their goal was to make this great innovative game but rather just that Miyamoto saw ants in his garden and thought "hey that would be a good idea" and went with it. The remote looks like something they thought of in a boardroom after being told by Iwata to "think of something innovative" and I'm afraid the games will be the same way.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 07, 2006, 09:48:17 AM
Post by: Kairon on March 07, 2006, 02:20:34 PM
We both seem to agree, Nintendo had a bit of a creative crisis in the GC era. But I honestly believe them when they hint that they want a new interface to give them a new energy with creativity. Oh, and let's keep in mind whenever we think that they should just redo OoT like they redid Zelda (NES) into LTTP, the SNES lost to the Genesis until Donkey Kong Country came out.
Also, I don't believe that the remote controller technology we see today appeared out of the blue. Miyamoto was clearly experimenting with these concepts years ago when he talked about Marionette. That was a game concept he was playing with which involved controlling a puppet (a marionette), and the handles by which you control the puppets string are most probably the real world originator of the Revmote's capabilities.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: MaryJane on March 07, 2006, 03:28:38 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 09, 2006, 04:27:55 AM
Mario 64 was a great game, and really showed how a Mario platformer could be done in 3D. However, it didn't feel like it was in the mushroom kingdom. Actually Mario Sunshine felt more like the Mushroom Kingdom to me, but that is only because those crazy bonus levels were so intense.
I really hope the next Mario (Mario Revolution) captures the zany, playfullness of the original series. Mario Brothers have always had unique and fun characters to beat, and that was really lacking in Sunshine and Mario 64.
The next in the series needs to go back to its roots, and incorporate good old fashioned enemy dodging for its platforming elements.
Post by: MaryJane on March 09, 2006, 04:57:05 AM
Ok but seriously, if nintendo had released a sequel to mario 64, like the same gameplay but in a different circumstance, wouldn't we be hearing the same cries of rehashing? also look at mp1 and mp2. i like them both, but i liked the first one better, cuz it was so original. the first fpa. much like how mario 64 was the first 3d platformer. nothing is going to recapture that magic, it can't cuz part of the magic was its novelty. i liked sunshine a lot, i loved how difficult it was, i beat the game after many many months, and i loved it for giving me such an experience. of course it was no mario 64 but how could it be?
Then introduce the revolution. Everything is new now. Every game rpg's, sports games, fps's and fpa's, fighting games, and platformers. They are all going to be unique experiences once again, and furthermore with the many possibilties of the revmote, they can continue to be unique experiences. They are all going to have the magic of being a new experience. I think that is truly what will make this the best system launch ever, the fact that it will be utterly unique.
Post by: RiskyChris on March 09, 2006, 05:17:22 AM
Playing mario 64 one year after the 64's release would not have been the same.
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 09, 2006, 05:22:09 AM
However, it seems most 3D platformers are using this means of level development...so I would really like to see Nintendo attempt something new.
The levels need to have definate direct objectives for those that need that to play, but open ended enough to have a little virtual playground.
The virtual playground aspects have been important to 3D games, because it is something 2D games have never really been able to achieve, however, these games have to designed carefully to actually include fun things to do...instead of just stuff.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 09, 2006, 04:33:33 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on March 09, 2006, 08:31:02 PM
Post by: MaryJane on March 10, 2006, 05:45:47 AM
Post by: animecyberrat on March 10, 2006, 05:49:42 AM
Also I did mention I hate NAruto the show, its crap to me. I am sorry I dont mean to soudn like I hate GC cuz of it but YES I am very disapointed that tehres no good fighting games ont he system, or so few to pick from. I had to get an Xbox for that, well among other things, and I didn want to do that considering I dont like Microsoft.
Its a genuwince concern I have for Rev though, because I dont see any Developers of 2D fighting games saying ANYTHING one way or the other ragarding revmote. Sega Satrun was the top notch for fighting games and since then graphics havent matter cuz even Satrun reached the pinacle. So REV couold more than handle a excelent 2d fighitng game, but the controler puts limits on that, one would HAVE to use the shell and we dotn knwo much about that yet or if its even going to be officialy supported. IF Nintendo refuses to make a single game using the shell or allowing its use in thier best games, not 3rd party dev will touch it.
Now its possible someone with some brains will figure out a way to make it work, but I have a feeling that the fighting games wont come out for rev or will get ignored and will be just like GC only worse.
Post by: MaryJane on March 10, 2006, 08:17:58 AM
Post by: jasonditz on March 10, 2006, 08:40:11 AM
Post by: Hocotate on March 10, 2006, 06:44:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: animecyberrat
See thast the problem though I dont liek 3D fighitng games. Game Cube has plenty of those, not any good ones, well ok DBZ Budokai is good, and the Nks are great, but thats not enough. Tehres NO Street FIghters, No Samurai SHowdowns, no good 2d fighters at all, as fr as I canf ind thers only 1 2d fighter adn its the crapiest game I ever played.
......I had to get an Xbox for that, well among other things, and I didn want to do that considering I dont like Microsoft.
The GCN controller does not work with 2D fighters. I had to import a PS2 for my SNK & Capcom fix, and even then I had to buy a Sega Saturn controller because the PS2 controller just sucks so hard. I don't think the lack of 2D fighters is a big loss or anything, because it's a dying genre. It's my fav genre, but it's not so popular with mainstream gamers. As for 3D fighters, I think the GCN delivered. We got SSBM, Naruto/2/3/4, Bleach, SCII, and DBZ Budokai.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 12, 2006, 08:10:47 AM
Still the GC controlers issue is irrelevant I have a lot of 3rd party controlers that work fine for 2d games, those are the ones I use when Playing Miways arcade treasures, which is what saved trhe GC as far as fighting games are concerned.
ANyways I am starting to have alot mroe faith in the revolution (and I have been thining it will be number one all along) now that I see more games getting annonced for it. I think that the revolution is going to be the most fun gaming system ever made but tehres 1 1st party launch titles that hasnt been confirmed yet that is a MUST and thats a long over due DUCK HUNT remake/update.
