Post by: MaryJane on February 24, 2006, 09:14:14 AM
I was just wondering what others thought about these issues.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 24, 2006, 09:20:55 AM
I wonder if one of the reasons Nintendo is going back to a d-pad and two buttons for the Rev remote is so that someday they can combine consoles and portables into one system? Obviously they would have to get rid of a lot of the extra doodads console controllers have to accomodate that.
Post by: animecyberrat on February 24, 2006, 09:31:53 AM
Post by: vudu on February 24, 2006, 09:47:46 AM
Plus, GameCube discs aren't protected (like UMDs) so they'll be very prone to scratching.
Moreover, lots of games will be fairly unplayable on such a small screen. Almost all text would be impossible to read unless the screen was huge.
Post by: MaryJane on February 24, 2006, 10:19:20 AM
The could come up with a way to address the split screen issue, they already have ways to use a single console on multiple t.v so there is no split screen, they two portable gc's would have to communicate well with each other, in single disc play, one would be transfering its controller inputs, (button presses joystick movements) while the other is transmitting the display and result of those actions to the other portable. complex but not undoable.
Battery life could be addressed simply, the original ds's battery life is 6hrs (?) and the lite is 10hrs (?) in 1-3 yrs i'm sure they'd be able to make an affordable long lasting battery to run GC discs. as for scratching normal cd's scratch, but people still insist on using them in their portable cd players, u'd just have to use care.
The biggest issue would definitely be it's size, the screen would need to be fairly large, larger than a ds screen, but as for the text being too small, that can be fixed with a simple zoom feature, which i've always thought portable video games should employ anyway. Even with features like that though the we're still talking a fairly big system, the other thing is the gc games (the ones already made) aren't too portable themselves in their original cases, and what's the point of a portable system with games that arent portable?
Post by: Tanookisuit on February 24, 2006, 10:26:48 AM
Post by: MaryJane on February 24, 2006, 10:32:02 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 24, 2006, 10:36:09 AM
That's probably what a portable Cube would have to be like. It would have to be like a laptop. I'm really wondering if that is Nintendo's plan with the Rev. They've made a big deal about the size and power efficiency of the system. What the hell do you need efficient energy consumption on something plugging into the wall? The only problem with that is that the remote is designed in such a way that you really couldn't use it on the go. Motion control the way Nintendo demonstrated in that Rev video requires space to move around which would limit things to the home. Playing a full-on console on an airplane only works for the traditional design of a controller in your hand and a screen in your face.
Post by: jasonditz on February 24, 2006, 12:32:43 PM
I'd rather see the next GB as a progression on the GBA rather than an attempt to trump the PSP.
Post by: 31 Flavas on February 24, 2006, 02:37:44 PM
QuoteUhm... I would assume over heating and such. They've got a lot of high power / high performance electronics in a very small space.
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
They've made a big deal about the size and power efficiency of the system. What the hell do you need efficient energy consumption on something plugging into the wall?
QuoteI'm quite sure Nintendo had the actors in the video purposefuly exaggerate their motions to demonstrate the controller. Short small motions will probably work just as well as broad sweeping motions.
The only problem with that is that the remote is designed in such a way that you really couldn't use it on the go. [...] Motion control the way Nintendo demonstrated in that Rev video requires space to move around which would limit things to the home.
Post by: IceCold on February 24, 2006, 06:04:02 PM
We've talked about this a lot in the past, and there's a few problems with it, not the least of which its tie-in ratio. With 3 consoles able to play the discs AND so many titles already available, the tie-in ratio will be miserable. Miserable, miserable, miserable. And that is one thing that Nintendo cherishes like their own child.
Post by: MaryJane on February 25, 2006, 07:09:59 AM
Post by: IceCold on February 25, 2006, 11:19:45 AM
Post by: Ages on February 25, 2006, 01:31:30 PM
.
Post by: IceCold on February 25, 2006, 04:37:47 PM
Post by: wandering on February 26, 2006, 12:19:56 AM
Post by: MaryJane on February 26, 2006, 09:04:28 AM
Post by: IceCold on February 26, 2006, 12:36:42 PM
QuoteEh? I said that if they made this system, there would be so many games to choose from that people wouldn't buy any new games. Then Ages said that Nintendo should have thought about that when they made the GBC. So I pointed out that new games for the GBC were different than those of the original Game Boy since they had colour. GameCube games before the PGC (Portable not Planet) will be nearly the same as the new ones on the PGC..
Originally posted by: wandering
Yeah, and new Portable GameCube (PoGaCue) games will have a marked improvement, too...3-d.
Post by: wandering on February 26, 2006, 12:40:08 PM
Post by: IceCold on February 26, 2006, 01:26:46 PM
Post by: MaryJane on February 26, 2006, 02:47:46 PM
1. Large pre-existing game library
2. Great graphics for a handheld
3. No add-on gameboy player for new gb games
4. Another reason for people to buy the Rev, bcuz there'd be two game formats to choose from. and much more games
5. The system would be fairly cheap as the technology isn't new
6. The cube is small, the rev smaller, it wouldn't be a big problem for Nintendo to make it.
7. I love the idea
8. Old games that didn't sell well in the past would be given a second chance.
9. Replay value increases with every game since you aren't limited to playing it at home.
(maybe replay value isn't the term i'm looking for but i can't think of a better one)
10. Don't forget 1-9
Post by: Caliban on February 26, 2006, 06:49:49 PM
Post by: IceCold on February 26, 2006, 06:51:01 PM
QuoteI couldn't agree more..
Originally posted by: Caliban
No more GB's please, the DS is enough for now. Let it pass 5 years or more until another, new portable system is launched.
Post by: Caterkiller on February 26, 2006, 08:50:19 PM
Post by: IceCold on February 26, 2006, 09:06:42 PM
Post by: MaryJane on February 27, 2006, 08:05:01 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 27, 2006, 08:33:59 AM
Considering that technology doesn't exist yet for consoles how could it possibly be included with a portable? Portables follow consoles because as technology gets older it's cheaper to make smaller. If 3D screens were already small enough and cheap enough to work in a portable they would already be pretty widespread.
Post by: jasonditz on February 27, 2006, 06:05:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"What I meant was, the portable gamecube could feature a 3-d screen. Like those Sharp 3d monitors. So new games would be in 3d."
Considering that technology doesn't exist yet for consoles how could it possibly be included with a portable? Portables follow consoles because as technology gets older it's cheaper to make smaller. If 3D screens were already small enough and cheap enough to work in a portable they would already be pretty widespread.
Yeah, that's why we saw dual screen technology and touchscreens on the consoles before...
err... wait.
Post by: wandering on February 27, 2006, 07:00:45 PM
Quote
Considering that technology doesn't exist yet for consoles how could it possibly be included with a portable?
Because consoles have never been bundled with screens and portables always have been?
Post by: Ian Sane on February 28, 2006, 06:43:04 AM
Okay fine. But touchscreens have been common in other electronics prior to the DS. Consoles is too limiting of an example. A better one would be popular technology period. We don't really see technology in portable game systems that have never been used anywhere else before.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 28, 2006, 10:02:24 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 28, 2006, 10:22:46 AM
Whatever. I just don't see 3D screens making it into a portable without it costing a huge chunk of change.
Post by: animecyberrat on February 28, 2006, 08:41:49 PM
If they could prefect the E-reader technology THATS what the next GB should use for its medium. They just need to figure out how to make them have more storage and flexability. Maybe thast what they are looking for.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 01, 2006, 06:00:36 AM
How is swiping a card any better than putting a cartridge in a slot? At least the cartridge method works and doesn't need a bunch of extra R&D.
Post by: MaryJane on March 01, 2006, 06:10:29 AM
Post by: jasonditz on March 01, 2006, 07:38:50 AM
I like the whole idea of carts over discs for a portable for a number of reasons: portability (you don't need to carry a CD wallet with you, and you can't keep a GC disc unprotected in your pocket), lower power consumption, faster loading, and no skipping. Given the advances in the next couple of years, it seems likely that the cartridge capacity on the next system will be pushing a gigabyte anyhow, so the only real advantage of discs over carts (capacity) will be mostly a non-issue by then.
Post by: jasonditz on March 01, 2006, 07:43:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Yeah, that's why we saw dual screen technology and touchscreens on the consoles before..."
Okay fine. But touchscreens have been common in other electronics prior to the DS. Consoles is too limiting of an example. A better one would be popular technology period. We don't really see technology in portable game systems that have never been used anywhere else before.
How about stereoscopes? I don't think I ever saw one used in popular technology before the VB.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 01, 2006, 07:56:51 AM
The Virtual Boy was a total failure. Why would you even bring up that system?
Post by: trip1eX on March 01, 2006, 09:06:30 AM
Also Nintendo isn't going to make a GB where you don't have to buy new software. They want to make money off selling you new games. Not off just the new hardware. Between folks having alot of GC games and used GC games all being $10 and under in a couple of years this is another strike against a GB playing GC discs.
So in the end what you're looking at here is basically a PSP where you don't have to buy $50 games. You already own the games or can find them at Gamestop for dirt cheap. I don't think Nintendo could do that model without making the unit itself much more expensive than a PSP. The PSP I'm sure was and probably is sold at a loss and depends on games and movies to make money for Sony. Nintendo would have to make a profit (and a bigger profit than they usually make because they won't be able to rely much on software sales) and thus the cost I'm sure would be up at $500 or so.
What Nintendo really needs to do is make a handheld with a hard drive or large flash memory cache on there and then combine that with their virtual console system. Ngames instead Itunes. And ideally let you rip your GC games to it as well.
Post by: jasonditz on March 01, 2006, 09:10:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"How about stereoscopes? I don't think I ever saw one used in popular technology before the VB."
The Virtual Boy was a total failure. Why would you even bring up that system?
Because it used a technology that hadn't been seen in popular technology before.
If we're going to limit this to portables that were a commercial success and rule out any addon device which you think "sucks", we're going to be stuck with a damned short list.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 01, 2006, 09:14:53 AM
And the Virtual Boy isn't really a portable anyway.
Post by: jasonditz on March 01, 2006, 09:52:07 AM
Post by: jasonditz on March 01, 2006, 10:05:03 AM
Sharp's 3D screen isn't totally experimental anyhow. They've been on the market for nearly 3 years now in high end laptops.
Also, it's worth noting the Sharp ported the API to Qtopia, which is leading some to speculate that the next generation of Sharp Zaurus PDAs might come with them as well.
Post by: Artimus on March 01, 2006, 10:25:31 AM
Post by: Pale on March 01, 2006, 11:13:19 AM
Now take tech similar to that, factor in the distance between your eyes, 'aim' the right image at each eye, and it kind of looks 3D. I've seen it. It gave me a headache.
Post by: jasonditz on March 01, 2006, 12:16:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I'm really confused, how do these 3d screens work? Can I see a photo or video of them in action? I have no clue what they actually look like.
They basically have two LCDs stacked on each other with a parallax barrier in-between. Then the difference in the two images presented gets interpretted as 3D in the brain. The end effect is somewhat similar to those old movies that they used to have where you had to wear the 3D glasses, only obviously without the need for the glasses.
The neat thing is that unlike for instance the VB where you had a few discrete planes on which to display an image, with enough horsepower (which would probably be reasonable in a portable device in a couple years), you could basically have objects moving around in the 3d space in real time.
Post by: Artimus on March 01, 2006, 01:11:49 PM
Post by: jasonditz on March 01, 2006, 02:17:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Why would I want a blurry weird semi-3D thingy?
Because people like eye candy?
Post by: MaryJane on March 01, 2006, 02:19:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Why would I want a blurry weird semi-3D thingy?
Good question.
I really don't see this happening anytime soon, Nintendo has a way of wanting their technologies whether proprietary or not, to be perfect and suitable for everyone to use before releasing it in any way shape or form. well at least they do since the might fall of the vb.
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 01, 2006, 03:57:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Why would I want a blurry weird semi-3D thingy?
People spend good money on illegal substances to get that effect.
Why want it, indeed!
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 01, 2006, 04:55:03 PM
Because it could get better?
Post by: pudu on March 01, 2006, 08:47:13 PM
Pro Gamecube Portable:
-devs are already in possesion of the development kits and know how to make games for the system
-GCN games are already small and therefore rather portable
-There is a large library of already available games
-the rev can act as a gameboy player right off the bat and will draw further interest to the new PGC
-any new games can be bought even by those who don't own a PGC
-hardware cost could be low, considering the Cube is already cheap and the components can be supstantially shrunk
-size of disks will be a big step up from past cartarige tech
Con Gamecube Portable:
-the GCN wasn't the biggest of successes and no longer truley fits into Nintendo's new stratagy
-the DS is doing fantastic...
-the GCN disks will require power consumption similar or more so then that of UMD's
-with both old Cubes and new Revs being able to play these games right off the bat many simply won't see a reason to by the device
-the PGC will not offer anything new or different from a GCN
-requires a completey functional Cube-esque controller with all the buttons/sticks...
-disks aren't nearly as durible as carts
I do like the idea of the 3d screen technology mentioned. Sharps tech allows a crips 3d depth to be added to a lcd screen as long as you are somewhere near the center of the screen (not viewing from side). This sounds like an innovative idea that I think should be used later on when the prices go down (I think Ian's right and it would really drive up the price). This would definately fit into the next DS as one of the cool new features to add to the experience.
As far as Nintendo's new direction into innovation and somehow retro gaming at the same time I'm pretty confused what direction they are going to be taking their next portable. They could simply make a next cart playing gameboy that plays all old gameboy games again with improved graphics...but this would be similar to the PSP yet probably not play media which could put them in a not-so-good situation. I think with the new popularity of the DS...and the new competition of the PSP they are really doing some hard thinking now as to what the logical next step is. My guess? An evolution of the DS with even more new emmersive features.
Post by: jasonditz on March 02, 2006, 04:45:10 AM
Post by: Pale on March 02, 2006, 05:08:26 AM
Post by: MaryJane on March 02, 2006, 06:38:09 AM
Post by: jasonditz on March 02, 2006, 09:24:20 AM
Post by: animecyberrat on March 02, 2006, 10:39:45 AM
Post by: MaryJane on March 02, 2006, 12:27:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: animecyberrat
I dont know, Nintendo is so stuck on this 3 pillar stuff they just might make a new GB sooner than that. I seriously doubt it will ever be a protabel GC though, but I can see them maybe using the same disks butit dont have to be compatible with GC games, I mean Playstation and Saturn both used standard CD but they are at all compatible.
I believe the difference would be that the GC and PGC would run on the exact same hardware, just of different sizes, while the ps and saturn used completely different kinds of everythings, cpus, gpus, and all that good stuff. it wouldn't make too much sense to just totally cut the opportunity to launch with hundreds of games already developed and (for the most part) loved.
Post by: jasonditz on March 02, 2006, 01:27:17 PM
Post by: lastexit on March 02, 2006, 03:12:53 PM
Power consumption is the big factor but Nintendo seems better than anybody at getting juice out of a battery. NOTHING i've ever owned can compete with nintendo devices in battery life. They are the best.
The screen would be as large as they want the device to be.
The discs can be held in a mini-dvd booklet, you can have 5 at a time in a very small space. No big deal at all. The dvd cases stay home.
The controls? No problem. Start where the PSP did, with that analog-nubbin thing. I kind of liked it when I used it. Nintendo can dramatically improve that and the design's functionality as well. A portable GC is very possible technically speaking.
As for eating game sales, not a problem. NEW GAMES WILL BE RELEASED ON THE GC FORMAT. New games are always better than old games!
Back to the third pillar...
For years the game boy has played the role of keeping old-school gaming such as 2D alive while the consoles left it behind. With DS and Revo changing control schemes, the new portable can keep old-school gaming (eg, this current generation) alive.
This device would be a PSP killer.
Post by: IceCold on March 02, 2006, 03:21:50 PM
QuoteOh, please no. From the (albeit little) time I used it, it was absolutely horrible. Awful.
The controls? No problem. Start where the PSP did, with that analog-nubbin thing. I kind of liked it when I used it.
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 02, 2006, 03:23:59 PM
Optical media eats battery life like popcorn.
Post by: Louieturkey on March 02, 2006, 04:27:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: lastexit
New games are always better than old games!
Never have I heard such a false statement before. Goldeneye is still considered by many gamers to be the defacto console FPS and it is close to 10 years old now. Mario 64 is still the king of 3d platformers and many believe Super Mario Bros 3 is superior to even that game.
I think you meant to put the word "looking" into your statement.
"New games are always better looking than old games!"
Post by: IceCold on March 02, 2006, 04:37:45 PM
Post by: wandering on March 02, 2006, 06:55:07 PM
Quote
This device would be a PSP killer.
Creating a portable that's designed to be a "psp killer" would be like creating a spray that's designed to be a "soap bubble killer". What's the point?
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 02, 2006, 07:23:11 PM
Killing the PSP would be an act of mercy.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 02, 2006, 08:05:17 PM
Post by: MaryJane on March 03, 2006, 06:28:47 AM
Post by: jasonditz on March 03, 2006, 12:07:41 PM
I'm picturing something like a GBA SP style design, but with the cartridge slot and screen and the processor all in the top. Then the bottom clips onto it through a port of some sort and has all the controllers. This would allow you to offer analog control that would be easily replaced without replacing the entire unit (for those of us who tend to wear out our analog sticks) and allow for other interesting attachments for certain games (then each Warioware game could come with it's own controller for whatever weird-assed things they want us to do next).
Post by: Artimus on March 03, 2006, 12:35:51 PM
Post by: MaryJane on March 03, 2006, 12:41:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I'm happy with the DS?
totally unrelated. nintendo is pretty adamant about have 3 pillars.
Post by: Artimus on March 03, 2006, 01:05:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MaryJaneQuote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I'm happy with the DS?
totally unrelated. nintendo is pretty adamant about have 3 pillars.
Not really. They haven't talked about that since the DS was announced. It was obviously more a safety net than anything...
There is really no need for a new GB, it would only eat into DS sales. The DS is supposedly a different pillar than the GBA, but GBA sales are dead because of the DS (in Japan).
Post by: jasonditz on March 03, 2006, 01:37:53 PM
1. The market seems able to support them. Alternating GB's and DS's every 3-4 years seems perfectly reasonable.
2. Excitement: people like to talk about the new system, and that generates a lot of buzz without advertising. Before the DS/PSP were announced the GBA was the top selling system on the market but all the attention was going towards the consoles. Keeping a new Nintendo handheld system always either having just launched in the past 2 years or about to be launched in the next two years keeps the excitement up.
3. Sony can't do it: Sony's hurting right now... have you seen the news? Their consumer electronics market is declining year over year... they face the very real possibility that their delays and higher than projected costs are going to force them to scale back their console expectations. Their handheld is at best a moderate success in the US, and a very definite also-ran in Japan. There's no way they can afford to trump another new Nintendo handheld in the next couple of years.
Post by: Artimus on March 03, 2006, 02:36:46 PM
2. I think the DS, now in its second year, selling out this week shows excitement doesn't require a whole new handheld.
3. Sony is hurting...even less reason to spend the money on a new system.
It just makes no sense. As long as the DS is a hit, not terribly out of date, and there is no threat, a new system makes little to no sense. The GameBoy wasn't really replaced until 2001, with only one real update (GBC) to speak of.
Post by: jasonditz on March 03, 2006, 07:37:17 PM
Post by: Artimus on March 03, 2006, 08:31:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
But they didn't "basically end GBA support"... the GBA had plenty of quality titles in 2005. In 2005 Nintendo was able to develop for 4 systems simultaneously, the GBA, the DS, the Cube, and the Revolution...
Hardly. Just look at the GBA's Japanese sales for proof the DS totally replaced it.
Post by: Jensen on March 04, 2006, 12:52:09 AM
With a handheld, everyone will have the screen, so all software will support it.
Will the next Gameboy have a 3D screen? No.
Post by: Requiem on March 04, 2006, 12:07:12 PM
In a sufficient sized hole, there is an analog nub similar to the gamecube. The nub is the same height as the buttons of the system, so it barely sticks out of the hole. Now, when you move the the analog nub, instead of tilting it, you slide it around the circle. The nub would be attached to something in the middle to provide resistance and reset the nub in the neutral position when not it use. The nub can move anywhere throught the circle, providing a very accurate and handheld friendly solution for analog control.
There........that wasn't so hard...
Post by: PaLaDiN on March 04, 2006, 12:24:15 PM
No thanks.
Post by: Requiem on March 04, 2006, 12:45:59 PM
If sh!t gets down there, a nice fan blast would clear anything out before it becomes troublesome. Plus, this is Nintendo we're talking about. If they were to try to make an analog nub, and my idea were used, it would be Nintendo Seal of Quality guranteed.
How do you propose they do it? Like the PSP? HAhaahahhaHAHhahAHHAHAhahAHHAHA
Post by: PaLaDiN on March 04, 2006, 12:51:08 PM
None of the three console makers can guarantee that even for their console controllers, so sorry, doesn't inspire confidence in me.
There's just no way to replace the dpad with an analog stick for portables as far as I can see. The touchscreen is the closest they've come so far, but that doesn't offer resistance.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 04, 2006, 01:11:37 PM
it's teh suck.
Post by: jasonditz on March 04, 2006, 08:02:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Indeed. The parts at the joint of the analog stick wear out over time (or thanks to SSBM smash hits...), allowing the origin/deadzone to increase in area. Eventually the stick may never return to the center position on its own, so you've lost 1) resistance, 2) the stick's maximum readable range.
it's teh suck.
Exactly: analog sticks are fine for the PSP... but for a system that actually has games people are going to want to play, it's just one more than to break. After 100 or so hours of play, every analog stick I've ever had was starting to get dead... by 250 hours, you have to constantly recenter the damned thing. Unless you get the system cost down to about $50... there's just no way I'm going to spring for a new system every 200-300 hours of play.
Post by: Artimus on March 04, 2006, 09:29:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditzQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Indeed. The parts at the joint of the analog stick wear out over time (or thanks to SSBM smash hits...), allowing the origin/deadzone to increase in area. Eventually the stick may never return to the center position on its own, so you've lost 1) resistance, 2) the stick's maximum readable range.
it's teh suck.
Exactly: analog sticks are fine for the PSP... but for a system that actually has games people are going to want to play, it's just one more than to break. After 100 or so hours of play, every analog stick I've ever had was starting to get dead... by 250 hours, you have to constantly recenter the damned thing. Unless you get the system cost down to about $50... there's just no way I'm going to spring for a new system every 200-300 hours of play.
Wow! My original GameCube controller works completely fine, and thats been way more than 100 hours! Same for my WaveBird which has had at least 400, judging by batteries.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 04, 2006, 10:38:26 PM
Post by: wandering on March 04, 2006, 10:47:40 PM
Quote
There's just no way to replace the dpad with an analog stick for portables as far as I can see.
the analog stick could be detachable.....
Quote
what about the d-pad Sega made for the Genesis/Satrun? That had 8 directions no problem couldnt they just make ad-pad that works like that?
don't most d-pads have 8 directions?
Post by: jasonditz on March 05, 2006, 05:27:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: jasonditzQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Indeed. The parts at the joint of the analog stick wear out over time (or thanks to SSBM smash hits...), allowing the origin/deadzone to increase in area. Eventually the stick may never return to the center position on its own, so you've lost 1) resistance, 2) the stick's maximum readable range.
it's teh suck.
Exactly: analog sticks are fine for the PSP... but for a system that actually has games people are going to want to play, it's just one more than to break. After 100 or so hours of play, every analog stick I've ever had was starting to get dead... by 250 hours, you have to constantly recenter the damned thing. Unless you get the system cost down to about $50... there's just no way I'm going to spring for a new system every 200-300 hours of play.
Wow! My original GameCube controller works completely fine, and thats been way more than 100 hours! Same for my WaveBird which has had at least 400, judging by batteries.
I suppose a lot of it depends on the kind of games you're playing, but I've been through 4 cube controllers so far this generation. The loss of resistance can be a serious problem: I had to buy a new controller for True Crime because with the lower max range, pushing the stick all the way up was only enough for a slow jog, which made some of the later levels impossible. The same problem occurs in Madden '04, where my running backs are only able to run full tilt if they do it on a diagonal.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 05, 2006, 03:05:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: wanderingQuote
There's just no way to replace the dpad with an analog stick for portables as far as I can see.
the analog stick could be detachable.....Quote
what about the d-pad Sega made for the Genesis/Satrun? That had 8 directions no problem couldnt they just make ad-pad that works like that?
don't most d-pads have 8 directions?
No all the Nintendo ones are only 4 directions, ever played on a Sega Genesis the D-Pad is a lot different than the standard Nintendo d-pad. You haev to play Saturn games like Nights or SOnic 3-D blast to see hwo efectiveit is in 3-D, not as good as analog but still works better than regular Nintendo D-pad.
Post by: Requiem on March 05, 2006, 03:56:53 PM
Post by: MaryJane on March 05, 2006, 05:02:04 PM
Quote
The same problem occurs in Madden '04, where my running backs are only able to run full tilt if they do it on a diagonal.
That is the worst, for one game i thought my running back was like tired or something, so i ended up having a 600yd passing game. anyway...
analog sticks do have problems, but that is easily solved. here are a few ways i have thought of, and something tells me that the people at nintendo are smarter than i am.
1. just make them easily replaceable
2. make a brand new type of analog stick that can survive thousands of hours of gameplay
3. ok all i got is two.
the gba isn't dead. japan doesn't account for the entire world. there are a good numbers of games coming out for the gba that i want to get. nintendo and other companies are focusing a lot more on the ds, but as someone suggested, i believe they will be alternating tides. when the next gb comes out, a lot of focus will go to it, will ds will probably see a small decline in sales, and so forth back and forth, and the only reason for this is that there isnt really a third way to play games, or place. i think the 3 pillars has been a success. the gba is still kicking ass left and right, the ds is putting up a damn good fight. also the psp was launched to compete against both the gba and ipod, (both are at the top of their fields) and it failed miserably. the ds i believe was launched as a third pillar because nintendo has had it in the back of their minds for awhile to create the next gameboy with gc discs. in console went from cartridges to discs, then handhelds would follow, sony was premature with this, nintendo is biding their time making sure they get everything right before unleashing the next big thing for videogames. at least this is what i think.
Post by: IceCold on March 05, 2006, 05:24:29 PM
So if Nintendo chooses this path, they'd be much better off completely replacing one system with the other, then alternating them every few years instead of keeping both on the market.
Post by: MaryJane on March 05, 2006, 05:42:42 PM
Post by: IceCold on March 05, 2006, 05:46:52 PM
Post by: animecyberrat on March 05, 2006, 07:05:27 PM
ANd no what Iw as saying abouot D-Pd is just what I said, NES,SNES,N64,GC,Ps1,PS2 and Xbxo all have the same style D-pad, take yor controlelrs apart and check it out, ive done this many times whiel fixing broken controllers. Sega is the ONLY pad that has true 8-way directional support, all the rest simply have a cross pad and 4 sensors right- left- up- and down
Teh Sega pads have those four AND Diagnals also, Sega has a patent on it they have ever since Genesis days ist how they maintained their pads were better than Nintendos (much better for Fighting games)
They workded JUST FINE for the 3D games on the Saturn and even Dream Cast had it but never used it cuz they had analog stick so obody even used the Dpad for 3D games.
On the tradition al pads you have to press Down and Forward to get a Diagnol forward down, making 3D games a pain in the ass to play cuz you have to work really hard, but with the Sega D-oad you could press the diagonal button on the pad and go in that direction, making it a lot easier to control, now not as fine or accurate control as a true analog stick but a lot betetr than what the DS adn GBA are currently using. It would all depend on how willing Sega was to let Nintendo use thier D-pad and if Nintendo would be willing to admit their is inferior buy even asking for it.
Its one of those little tings that gets often ovr looked on Sega Systems, sadly just like everything else Sega did that was great.
Post by: IceCold on March 05, 2006, 07:10:18 PM
Post by: animecyberrat on March 05, 2006, 07:27:13 PM
Post by: jasonditz on March 05, 2006, 07:39:23 PM
The DS and the GBA have overlap, but they're not targetted at identical markets. All this talk about third parties getting frustrated is just silly: companies like Namco and Sega are developing for both systems right now, and could be counted on to continue doing so. The smaller companies would just target whichever system best fits the game (sort of like they're doing now).
Also. the future DS could support backwards compatibility with the future GB... so the people who want games from both can simply just buy the DS line. A lot of people would buy both.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 05, 2006, 07:52:16 PM
Post by: MaryJane on March 06, 2006, 05:44:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Nintendo has almost completely shifted their focus to the DS; there are only very few first party titles coming out for the GBA at the moment. So they haven't stopped making GBA games, but they've dramatically decreased their focus on it. If a Game Boy and the DS were to coexist, it just wouldn't work.
I'm not trying to be a prick or anything, but just trying to understand you. But aren't they co-existing right now? Yes more focus is being put on the ds, but where I live I still see many more people walking around playing gb than ds, as a matter of fact besides my brother and one old lady, i've never seen anyone around here playing ds.
rats posts made me think that we wont be seeing the new gameboy for a couple years, they just released the micro after all. they would wait at least 2 or 2 1/2 years to release a new gb.
oh i just remembered I've seen another person playing ds, my mom cuz i sold her my old one, expecting my dsl to be here alrdy.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 06, 2006, 06:47:58 AM
They're really supporting the Cube and the Rev at the same time though. I figure once the Rev is released Cube releases will abruptly stop. Right now you could consider Rev games in development in the same light as future Cube games. Normally they would be making Cube games for the end of the year and beyond. Right now they probably aren't. The Rev games are effectively replacing future Cube releases. They're probably not working on twice the console games they normally would.
Regarding the analog stick durability I think the ideal solution to allow the controller portion of the portable to be easily detached. Not to the point where you can just snap it off but just so that you can remove a few screws and therefore just have to buy one replacement part instead of a whole system.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 06, 2006, 07:11:46 AM
Post by: MaryJane on March 06, 2006, 07:32:17 AM
Post by: IceCold on March 06, 2006, 12:10:44 PM
QuoteI mean "coexist" in that being at the peak of their popularity at the same time. As I said earlier, if Nintendo were to do this, I would much rather they wait until the DS is dying, then release the new Game Boy. Then when that is dying, release a new DS or whatever. I just don't want both of them to overlap completely..
Originally posted by: MaryJaneQuote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Nintendo has almost completely shifted their focus to the DS; there are only very few first party titles coming out for the GBA at the moment. So they haven't stopped making GBA games, but they've dramatically decreased their focus on it. If a Game Boy and the DS were to coexist, it just wouldn't work.
I'm not trying to be a prick or anything, but just trying to understand you. But aren't they co-existing right now? Yes more focus is being put on the ds, but where I live I still see many more people walking around playing gb than ds, as a matter of fact besides my brother and one old lady, i've never seen anyone around here playing ds.
rats posts made me think that we wont be seeing the new gameboy for a couple years, they just released the micro after all. they would wait at least 2 or 2 1/2 years to release a new gb.
oh i just remembered I've seen another person playing ds, my mom cuz i sold her my old one, expecting my dsl to be here alrdy.
Post by: jasonditz on March 06, 2006, 12:23:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Nintendo isn't supporting just two systems right now, they're supporting 4"
They're really supporting the Cube and the Rev at the same time though. I figure once the Rev is released Cube releases will abruptly stop.
That's a good point, but it again brings up the question: if the DS was just the new gameboy, and they weren't serious about 3 pillars, why didn't GBA software stop as soon as the DS hit the market?
Post by: Ian Sane on March 06, 2006, 12:37:19 PM
Same reason the NES and SNES had games released after their successor was released. With popular systems a few games still are released to milk the old system. But the old console is never supported on the same level as the new one. The current GBA release schedule is nothing out of the oridinary.
Post by: jasonditz on March 06, 2006, 12:52:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"if the DS was just the new gameboy, and they weren't serious about 3 pillars, why didn't GBA software stop as soon as the DS hit the market?"
Same reason the NES and SNES had games released after their successor was released. With popular systems a few games still are released to milk the old system. But the old console is never supported on the same level as the new one. The current GBA release schedule is nothing out of the oridinary.
Except this isn't just after launch... we're almost a year and a half into the DS lifespan now. I could see a window of a few months, and a trickle of cash in titles, but Nintendo's released two iterations of the Gameboy (Micro and the new backlit SP) hardware and at a dozen solid Nintendo-published titles since then.
I don't ever recall more than a few month overlap on any past systems for significant first party support...
Post by: Ian Sane on March 06, 2006, 01:31:44 PM
The NES had games released for it until 1994. Now I didn't consider those games significant but I don't consider the GBA support from the DS launch on as significant either. Is Nintendo making their really major games on the GBA? No. The high profile stuff, at least high profile portable stuff, is all on the DS. The only GBA title that came out after the DS that I consider a major title is Minish Cap and that could have come out before but was intentionally delayed.
Post by: jasonditz on March 06, 2006, 01:50:14 PM
It seems to me the GBA got as much meaningful first party support in 2005 as it did in 2004. We saw a huge drop off in NES support almost the minute the SNES hit (even though, as you say, there was a trickle of games coming out for years), we're just now starting to see the GBA come into a slow spot 16 months after the DS hit market... and it's not even clear at this point whether this slowdown is permanent or just Nintendo's usual quiet early spring.
Post by: MaryJane on March 07, 2006, 12:40:03 PM
the gb is far from dead. and before it dies it will reborn. gc discs? most likely. 3d screen? sometimes dreams do come true. once again kick the ass of every portable system (besides the ds)? of course.
i can garuntee e3 is going to show a host of gb games, there will probably be more ds games, but the ds is newer so of course it will receive more attention, much like how the rev is going to get more attention than the ds, even though the ds is doing great.
Post by: animecyberrat on March 07, 2006, 07:24:07 PM
