Post by: ThePerm on January 24, 2006, 09:55:09 AM
LOST
Post by: jasonditz on January 24, 2006, 10:11:25 AM
LOST
Post by: Ceric on January 24, 2006, 10:19:00 AM
LOST
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 24, 2006, 10:37:47 AM
ISN'T THAT GROSS
LOST?
Post by: ThePerm on January 24, 2006, 10:42:15 AM
lost!
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 24, 2006, 10:45:48 AM
LOST
I quiver at the thought of impaling your enemies on your sword, lifting them over your head, and then flinging them through the air like projectiles into a cluster of other enemies, or fire, or onto spikes, or off a cliff, or into a pen of hungry wild dogs, or...holy sh*t, I'm demented...
-SB
Post by: Ian Sane on January 24, 2006, 11:00:00 AM
Nintendo has many teams capable of making "cool" games that don't compromise Nintendo's principles and can still avoid an 'M' rating. Retro and Intelligent Systems are the obvious two. Metroid is cool. So is Fire Emblem. SK and Rare were capable of cool stuff but Nintendo let them get away. Paper Mario isn't cool yet IS works on that before Fire Emblem.
I think it would help Nintendo as well to just not make their own franchises so damn cutesy. I'm not talking about having Mario kill hookers. I'm talking about him being family friendly while not coming across as a reject from Sesame Street. In SSBM Mario is cool. He's got stiches in his denim and shading but still looks like Mario. In Mario Sunshine Mario isn't cool at all. His model is undetailed, everything is in primary colours and everything is ridiculously bright. Plus the game opens up with "Super Mario Sunshiiiiiiiiiine!!!" in the stupidest voice imaginable. Combine that with the worst commercial ever made and you've got the ultimate example of kiddy. Mario's image would improve leaps in bounds if he looked more he did in SSBM (or Mario RPG which he also looked cool in), if the world he was in had some shadows, and if he just didn't talk in that stupid voice as much (Mario was much more popular before he talked).
Other Nintendo franchises can have a coolness factor to them as well without being comprimised. Twilight Princess is still Zelda but it looks cool. Ocarina of Time looked cool. Wind Waker looks like a Hanna-Barbara cartoon. Why kiddy up a popular franchise for no reason?
Marketing of course plays a big difference and Nintendo would benefit from focusing more on the "cool" titles in their ads. In North America Rogue Leader should have been the most focused launch title, not Luigi's Mansion. Nintendo can overcome this kiddy stuff if they just pay more attention to it. There's a big difference between "kid friendly" and "kiddy". Nintendo just has to realize when something is too bright and happy to the point where it seems lame.
Hell kids don't even really life overly cutesy stuff. Once they start elementary school they become very image conscience.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 24, 2006, 11:02:27 AM
Post by: vudu on January 24, 2006, 11:03:13 AM
LOST.
Post by: ThePerm on January 24, 2006, 11:04:49 AM
lost
Post by: ShyGuy on January 24, 2006, 11:08:58 AM
Post by: Ceric on January 24, 2006, 11:33:45 AM
My above post was in referance to this.
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=80
I agree with Ian for the most part.
Post by: ThePerm on January 24, 2006, 11:37:24 AM
French accent: oui , vie la révolution !
PERDU!!!
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 24, 2006, 01:15:01 PM
Or tiku tiku tiku! .
Post by: iMoron on January 24, 2006, 02:40:47 PM
I, in a way, could care less if Nintendo would be making Barney, Teletubies or Power Rangers games (thoug I would kill them if they would)... they are Nintendo and their games are good... I like Paper Mario, and Zelda no matter what!
Now... why is it that the other companies don't even try to bring those suposely "mature" games to Nintedo's consoles more often... Theres nothing stoping them. Why do they have to be so retards and think that their games have to be like Nintendo's... There are limits yes... I don't want to see a game were they make some pr!est r@pe k!ds or something like that to call themselves "mature games"... There are things we don't need... Actualy... many so called mature games are inmature!
But shure enougth, you are right in that Nintendo could do a bit more, but I feel they have not been doing bad with their games as they are. A bit of what you ask is wellcome. But it is not their fault that there are so few "mature games" for the Cube right now... it is those retards that don't even try...
If you make it, they will come!
I find it strage and somewhat hipocript that some bring out half assed "mature" games from other consoles, mostly ports... Metal Gear for example, why din't he tried... he just left SK at it, with and old game (movie, that thing has little gameplay)... why din't he tryed a bit more... a newer one... or something more original and "mature"... and capcom, why din't they finished what they started and actualize all of the Resident Evils instead of just a few... that was lame...
Eiderway, it is not Nintendo's responsability to tell the developers of other companies what to do!
Post by: iMoron on January 24, 2006, 02:48:24 PM
|------|
|____|
...sorry... it is a bit small...
it seems like many need it... where was it that you wanted t go???
Post by: trip1eX on January 24, 2006, 04:49:44 PM
But yeah they don't have that macho dark kewl image. I think they aren't hip right now.
I don't think Americans particularly care for cutesy stuff. At least American males. I liked the above titles, but I don't particularly care for Japanese rpgs where they always have these annoying kids in them. I just find it hard to get by that image.
I used to play old rpgs on the pc like Wizardry and ULtima. The characters were never 12 or 13 yr olds in those games. Same with a game like Diablo II. You don't see 13 yr old brats as characters. It's just not an American style.
Yeah I know there's folks that like that stuff, but it's not an image that goes over well here.
It's the same reason some American stuff doesn't go over well there. It's just not a taste that one or the other culture particularly cares for.
Post by: Galford on January 24, 2006, 04:52:33 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on January 24, 2006, 04:56:52 PM
Post by: Arbok on January 24, 2006, 07:41:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I'm talking about him being family friendly while not coming across as a reject from Sesame Street. In SSBM Mario is cool. He's got stiches in his denim and shading but still looks like Mario.
Mario needs to return to his 1990's roots
:
Seriously though, I would agree, SSBM nailed pretty much all of the character designs perfectly. Even Ganondorf, with his much longer cape, looks tons better. Kind of a shame that they didn't stick with those, but so it goes.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 24, 2006, 07:46:28 PM
The image is being propagated by their competitors because they know that insecurity is a powerful marketing tool.
-SB
Post by: couchmonkey on January 25, 2006, 05:18:05 AM
Post by: BigJim on January 25, 2006, 06:13:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: iMoron
Now... why is it that the other companies don't even try to bring those suposely "mature" games to Nintedo's consoles more often... Theres nothing stoping them. Why do they have to be so retards and think that their games have to be like Nintendo's... There are limits yes... I don't want to see a game were they make some pr!est r@pe k!ds or something like that to call themselves "mature games"... There are things we don't need... Actualy... many so called mature games are inmature!
Because mature games sell like crap on GameCube. Nintendo pigeon-holed themselves by essentially making it a console of safe games and IP pushers. Those are the only ones that sold in decent numbers. "If they make it, they will come" doesn't apply. As long as Nintendo makes systems for themselves, they'll set the pace.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 25, 2006, 07:58:18 AM
Some reason there were no online games on the Cube. Third parties COULD have made online Cube games. The hardware was there. But they didn't because Nintendo didn't do it first. The console maker actually has a lot of influence on what people buy their consoles and what types of games sell on their consoles. If Nintendo sells their console entirely on the strength of kid friendly games they're just not going to attract the audience for mature games. So they have to attract that audience themselves. Third parties basically just follow the lead of the console maker.
It doesn't help that Nintendo is so often on damage control to hide their flaws from the fans. They lack options so they try to train their fans to not care about things Nintendo themselves don't provide. How many times do you hear Nintendo fans spout off nonsense about "who needs violence?" and "I don't want to see Mario kill hooker" as if anything designed for adults is automatically a total gorefest. Nintendo put that idea in those people's heads. Same with online gaming. Nintendo dedicated huge sections of their speeches bashing online gaming because they had to somehow justify to themselves and their fans why they were ignoring such an obvious trend. Basically Nintendo will sabotage anything that isn't in their interest so that they have an excuse not to do it. That's why third parties won't take the initative.
Post by: Magik on January 25, 2006, 08:51:22 AM
Their marketing really needs to pick it up or at least get slapped with a bit of reality. Nintendo's marketing is one huge contributor to this 'tiku tiku tiku! ' image. Instead of promoting some of the mature titles they had, such as Eternal Darkness, or Metal Gear Solid, they heavyily promote 'cuter' games such as Luigi's Mansion, or Mario <insert sport>.
We will only see more mature games on a Nintendo console when they actually sell better. No develop will put much effort into bring a more mature themed game if it will flopped right away.
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 25, 2006, 10:13:44 AM
They need to produce their games how they desire them. Some games will be inherantly more mature than other franchises, but they will never be completely inappropriate, and that is important.
How can you say that games like:
Geist
Metroid
Legend of Zelda
Advanced Wars
Fire Emblem
Super Smash Brothers
Aren't for mature audiences. Gamers aren't stupid. I believe most real gamers understand that most of the complaints towards Nintendo is marketers saying crap.
Yes, Nintendo needs to show with the Revolution that Nintendo is willing to support and nurture their mature lineup first.
This will be done, by Nintendo actually having mature games at launch. Metroid Prime 3, Zelda possibly backwards compatiable, and if Nintendo can get an RPG out by launch they will be in great shape.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 25, 2006, 10:42:10 AM
Something which can be violent, yes, but at the same time, smart. It should be a game which classifies as "mature" not because of the violence factor but because the storyline requires an adult brain to fully appreciate. I loved MGS and it's my firm belief that we need more games like it.
A great deal of mature titles are relegated to being pointless gorefests. If more games had movie-quality storylines (and I mean GOOD movies), then gaming could probably be seen as something which revolves around interactive story and plot, giving people like Jack Thompson far less ammunition when it comes to berating games and gamers.
-SB
Post by: jasonditz on January 25, 2006, 10:48:44 AM
Example: Real gamers love Zelda
Xtr3m3 GamX0rz think anything with a sword in it is 'teh ghey', unless there's blood all over everything and the monsters have big boobs.
Example: Real gamers appreciate GTA: San Andreas for it's depth and authentic feel.
Xtr3m3 GamXOrz like anything where you shoot cops and swear. Enjoyed GTA primarily for the hos, but never got out of the first city because they were too busy getting tattoos and shooting old people. Pre-ordered 25 to life, and is reasonably sure that the new $0.50 game is the greatest game ever.
Example: Real gamers bought a Nintendo DS for it's strong lineup of unique titles and intriguing play control.
Xtr3m3 GamXOrz bought a PSP bundle at launch primarily because of the hot Mexican girl in the launch ad. Never bought a single title for it besides the Spiderman 2 game it came with (maybe finally broke down and bought GTA), and had it prominently displayed in his pocket until it stopped being a fashion statement... has since put it in the drawer and forgotten about it.
BTW: Why the hell is g a y a "Forbidden word", when you're free to say cocksucker?
Post by: Arbok on January 25, 2006, 09:28:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
BTW: Why the hell is g a y a "Forbidden word", when you're free to say cocksucker?
Probably because you are the first person on the forums to ever use it
Post by: vudu on January 27, 2006, 08:48:32 AM
Quote
Give me the effing keys, you effing cocksucking mothereffer, aaarrrghh.
Post by: Ceric on January 28, 2006, 11:13:21 AM
A "mature" Mario. Actually I just think this is funny in a way.
Post by: stevey on January 28, 2006, 11:38:08 AM
LOST (j/k)
Post by: The Omen on January 29, 2006, 12:16:13 PM
Post by: JonLeung on January 29, 2006, 01:16:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
The only way to change is to refocus perception, not product.
Actually, that's true.
I always wondered what would happen if I ran a big store chain...and I mean BIG...and put out a memo to all stores to show only Bob The Builder on the PS2 and Barbie Horse Adventures on the Xbox while putting only T or M-rated games on the 'Cube. Okay, probably T. And to do that for a week and see if 'Cube sales are affected at all.
Bob The Builder and Barbie...those kinds of games on the competition's consoles are more for kids than anything that's graced a Nintendo console lately.
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on January 29, 2006, 01:25:50 PM
Plus, the blockbusters are more 'everyone-games' than '17+games' in terms of content(except Geist), though not necessarily difficulty or skill. What needs to happen is that after the release of Metroid Prime 3, Retro getting back to those early abandoned projects from before the restructuring and layoff Nintendo IPs for a bit. That'll help a little bit, but what is really needed is steady third-party support. I think Nintendo has worked on alot of its image problems in terms of the design of the console, and having MP3 and Zelda at launch couldn't hurt that image. But those games alone aren't enough to compete.
People who live for M-rated games can't wait on Nintendo to bring them, which is why third-party devs who make those kind of games are so crucial.
Post by: The Omen on January 29, 2006, 02:16:14 PM
Quote
People who live for M-rated games can't wait on Nintendo to bring them, which is why third-party devs who make those kind of games are so crucial.
The M rated market is about 15% of the entire VG market(in terms of top selling games). It's not the product, it's the perception. Say it with me people! Change the perception of Nintendo as kidEE, and the games will take off on their own. Would adding M rated titles of their own help that change in perception? Mildly. But what they need are spin doctors to do their work, and only then will you see a huge leap of faith on the part of the blind fanboys. Afterall, this kidEE crap is just what those gamer's believe, not what they actually see. Change their belief system.
Post by: ThePerm on March 13, 2006, 07:01:47 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on March 13, 2006, 08:07:37 AM
Post by: Rancid Planet on March 13, 2006, 01:21:00 PM
Screw mature gaming!
(Goes back to refurnishing his house with the "robot theme")
Post by: trip1eX on March 13, 2006, 01:28:20 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on March 13, 2006, 01:34:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: trip1eX
KIll off Mario.
Hey look what the guy with the Vin Diesel movie screen name said!
Post by: Ian Sane on March 13, 2006, 01:41:23 PM
1. Turn on one of the 2D Mario platformers.
2. Fall off first cliff you encounter.
3. Repeat until all lives are used up.
Post by: Mario on March 13, 2006, 02:17:19 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on March 14, 2006, 10:05:22 PM
